Don't Fall For It
By 07rescue Posted in Archived — Comments (105) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
As a long time Clinton supporter, I can vouch for it that the liberal media will declare John McCain's candidacy is pushing up daisies until November 4th. They will cite a thousand reasons why he will be defeated in a landslide, magnifying every minute stumble, ignoring every magnificent victory, and all it amounts to is their incessant browbeating designed to diminish his momentum, fundraising, and popular appeal. It is psychological warfare that creates depression and hopelessness in those it is directed toward. As a die hard Clinton supporter I can testify to this, having just lived through it. Don't buy into it.
They can be fought successfully. The more the media megaphone unleashed on Clinton, the more she and her supporters fought and bypassed them to reach out directly to people, and the more she won. Even outspent by up to 4 to 1, the voters gave her their votes, she won the popular vote, all 18 million plus. It can be done, and with enough commitment and support, John McCain can do it as well.
By overplaying it's hand with Obama, the liberal media has now convinced half the Democratic Party that they lie, distort and manipulate, and they deceive their audiences for their own ends, and that FOX News is the most fair and balanced. That's a gift that will keep on giving. Countless Clinton supporters are now far more open minded as a result, and won't readily buy into the liberal media line of BS as we once would have.
All the time now I hear Clinton supporters say things like, "McCain didn't say '100 years' in Iraq, and he's right, it's the casualties that count, not whether we are there." And, "He's not too old, that's ageism and we should be fighting it." They aren't buying the deceptions, now they want to hear the whole story, not a calculated snippet taken out of context, or a deliberate mischaracterization. Fool us once, shame on you, fool us twice, no way.
When you hear posters saying negative things about John McCain and his chances for victory, please remember that Obama has both paid and volunteer legions of online posters and bloggers who have been trained to strategically use the right language to try to crush any support for their opposition, and they care nothing about truth or fairness. Winning at all costs is their only motto.
Smear campaigns do "work" to malign candidates - Republicans used nonsense like the Vince Foster tragedy to smear the Clintons in the '90s, and the taxpayers had to spend $60 million investigating only to find nothing to it but a smear campaign. This year Richard Mellon Scaife's Pittsburg Tribune actually endorsed Hillary Clinton right before the PA primary, because she was not who they made her out to be back then, but is an experienced, brilliant, hardworking public servant worthy of respect, as John McCain is. Disagree with policies and ideas of either candidate, but they are both honorable people with much to offer our country. Neither will subvert our democracy.
What none of us need in the White House is an inexperienced, arrogant empty suit product of the corrupt, election fraud based Chicago political machine. There are 18 million Democrats who voted for Clinton who are looking at John McCain with a new perspective, and many are begging for a good reason to vote for him. Many will lodge a protest vote against the Democratic Party even without being given a single good reason to vote for him. They may be quiet, but they are out there, and the polls won't necessarily reflect their views.
The last WAPO/ABC News poll showed that 24% of Clinton voters intend voting for McCain, and another 13% will stay home or vote third party. That is a total of 37% of Clinton supporters who refuse to vote for Obama. Many of us are organizing to oppose Obama.
My request to Republicans: compromise and move to the center, and save our country from a situation where people who believe voter fraud, voter intimidation, vote theft and threats of rioting and interpersonal violence are appropriate ways to win elections will take the Presidency and be in control of the executive branch at the same time both houses of Congress are dominated by Democrats. There will be no Congressional oversight, no checks and balances on policies, procedures, and administrators selected to conduct future elections. Think about what will happen to free and fair elections if the voter fraud wing of the Democratic Party takes complete control of our government. Obama has already moved the DNC to Chicago. They stopped at nothing to take the nomination away from Clinton, do you think they will have any scruples when dealing with Republican candidates all over this country?
Seriously, think strategically. If even life long Liberal Democrats like myself are arriving in droves to try to explain to you why our guy is really bad news, and we are supporting John McCain even though we disagree profoundly with most of his views, you know the situation is worthy of real concern. If liberal Democrats can travel the tremendous ideological distance required to support John McCain, can those of you who disagree with him in part only do the same? It is for the future of our democracy I ask.
If John McCain loses this upcoming election, I would advise that Republicans everywhere should become as involved as possible in your local election boards, to try to combat election fraud on every level, to prevent it from becoming so rampant that it will be as impossible to dislodge as it has been in Chicago. Chicago "smackdown" politics is not a good model for democracy, and plenty of Democrats will join you in fighting it.
Together we need to stand up for democracy against the corrupt Chicago machine pols who have a carefully selected, teflon "historic" candidate who has no record to attack, no solid positions to oppose, backed by a masterful PR machine and using tricks of the trade most people wouldn't even contemplate committing.
Now is the time the McCain campaign needs your support, energy, and donations. Clinton supporters disillusioned with the Democratic Party must be outreached now, before the massive PR machine behind Obama can run away with them. Give us a reason to feel welcomed and toss us a few bones on policy to remove the stiffest objections. It won't be as painful as you might think, and I believe the rewards will be enormous.
You may even find that most of us are good people who love our country and want the best for all of us, too.
Thank you, Susannah. I hope many Republicans will reach out to Clinton supporters, as Senator McCain himself already has.
Many of the Clinton supporters are highly energized and ready to fight the Obama machine, all they lack is direction and a leader to rally around. There are many grassroots Clinton groups who are busy planning activities, but a real leader who can invite them into the McCain fold and affirm the common values we share - staunch patriotism, hard work with just rewards, strong national defense and security, fair elections - would go a long way in preventing the debacle of an Obama takeover of our government and Democratic party. Oddly, Obama might end up being a real uniter, but not in the fashion he expects.
A group of Hillary supporters were treated to a small. intimate "town hall" with Senator McCain and Carly Fiorini last Saturday, which I was very fortunate to attend. It was very warm and cordial, and we ended up taking a large group photo with the Senator completely surrounded by Hillary Clinton supporters, most of us in our Hillary for President T-Shirts, buttons and caps, embracing him in our midst. Many of us did off the cuff videos telling why we are supporting John McCain, for use on the internet, as a model for other Clinton supporters who may feel they have no alternative but to support Obama. Our visible presence offers them permission, and a greater choice. Even one of Hillary Clinton's top surrogates attended.
Out of that gathering the New York City Clinton Democrats who attended are all endorsing Senator McCain, he made such a lasting favorable impression on us. We are making plans to bring home Pennsylvania for him, the same way we did for Senator Clinton.
It will be terrific to make some connections here on Red State, this has the potential to be a dynamic alliance, which could bear unexpected fruit.
Every point you state I have discovered is exactly the truth in the last year, it is amazing how once you expose it to sunlight people can suddenly see how they are being duped by the mainstream biased media.
It really IS a conspiracy by reporters and poll companies and the far left interest groups to try and portray Obama as invulnerable and omniscient while at the same time they successfully portrayed Hillary as a loser and as a nightmare even back in January!!
"Small town folks get bitter after which they cling to guns or religion, or antipathy to people who aren't like them, or anti-immigrant sentiment"- Barack Carter Obama
I'm very interested in any ideas people might have for directly communicating with voters in a way that bypasses the media. The media can be counted on to distort and lie, are not our friends, and alternate ways to communicate need to be created.
I'm thinking about how the BO campaign used the internet and text messaging on a daily basis to keep their cadre of young and affluent supporters informed, involved, and feeling like they "belong" to a movement. Our Clinton supporters tended not to all have access to those technologies, and many work far too much to be texting and emailing all day, frankly. I'm not sure those means would be as potent for us.
I appreciate any and all suggestions.
about the organizing of the McCain team:
go and sign up for "Citizens for McCain" once you get there- it is led by Senator Lieberman and is made up of thousands of democrats who put country over short term political ideology..
welcome aboard and keep posting!!
"Small town folks get bitter after which they cling to guns or religion, or antipathy to people who aren't like them, or anti-immigrant sentiment"- Barack Carter Obama
I signed up for Citizens for McCain as soon as Senator Lieberman sent out the email for it. I had signed up for the general McCain for President site quite a while ago, and had sent them a number of emails about reaching out to disaffected Clinton supporters. I imagine many people did the same, because the "Citizens for McCain" invitation arrived in our email boxes soon after.
I also encourage all interested Clinton supporters to join Citizens for McCain.
for saying that it would be nice to have a presidential campaign between two patriotic Americans [Hillary Clinton and John McCain]. Well, it would be nice to have a presidential campaign between two patriotic Americans.
Neither Hillary Clinton nor John McCain chose a spiritual advisor [for 20 years!!] whose spiritual advice included "God Damn America".
Neither Hillary Clinton nor John McCain chose a political mentor who is an unrepentent anti-American terrorist.
Barrack Obama has crossed a line I've never seen crossed before in American presidential politics. I do not think Barrack Obama would be the Democratic nominee if the facts about his relationships with Wright and Ayers had been widely known before the Iowa caucuses.
I agree completely David, in that Obama would not have been the Democratic nominee had people known about his unsavory friends before Iowa. I said as much to my husband the other day. If one doubts that this is true, all he or she would have to do would be to look at Dan McLaughlin's "Obamentum" charts, which show Obama down around 600,000 votes since March 4th--which is about the time when stories of his shady pals first started to surface.
09rescue: you are right on! I am a fellow Democrat and Hillary supporter. I watched a brilliant candidate get thrown under the DNC bus by the DNC leadership itself. I am totally disgusted with the actions of the DNC leadership and with the dirty tactics of the "Obamabots" who have proven time and time again to be completely intolerant of views (or candidates) other than their own. (Try wearing a Hillary pin in New York City and see how rude and undemocratic the Obamabots can get).
I have always believed that the best President is the most moderate and centered president. This makes sense when you consider that the US is 300 million people strong; as many people as we have, so many views we have. The most centered candidate is best equipped to understand both sides of the political spectrum, and render balanced judgment calls. Perhaps it is the law of averages, or some other type of balancing that takes place, weighing in favor of moderation in politics. Ancient Greek wisdom called it the Golden Mean. I call it plain common sense. It is this common sense and the notion of "country over party" that has prompted me to cross party lines to vote for Senator John McCain this year; and the more I learn about him, the more I like him.
I trust his foreign policy posture (and experience) and think his tax policies will serve small businesses well. I think his thoughts on energy planning are progressive. I look forward to learning more and have turned my efforts to learning more about him and educating others about him.
I am not alone.
Today I attended my local Hillary campaign support group, and we have decided to throw our support to John McCain. I don't think the election scene is prepared for the multitude of passionate Hillacrats that are about to be unleashed on the political scene. Our votes were ignored the first time, but WE WILL REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER! Go Johnnie Go! John McCain 2008!
I was thinking "PunishingHowardDean" the way he punished voters but it sounded too masculine and I didn't want people to not know I was a woman, but I don't want a name that would offend anyone. Simply one that would show the media and Democrats that many will not vote for an anti-American, handpicked, phony candidate who cheated his way through one state after another and has lied about everything a person could lie about.
I want to make them worry, and see party unity is not going to happen, we'll vote for the best person for the job and that alone disqualifies the Senator Do Nothing with the terrorist ties.
So, I may change my name. I'm new, if it's not appropriate I can change it.
But tip for DemLawyer: Please don't register multiple accounts; we frown upon that in general, and *usually* is a banning offense (though clearly in this context you didn't know and meant no harm). If you want to change your name, contact a site moderator (or the sitewide contact link up at the top of every page) so we can rename you.
thanks,
I just adored the way Senator McCain won the Republican primaries. Romney would come at him looking like the FONZ on Steroids and sweet McCain would spew out ggggreat comments making the entire audience laugh. McCain is a hero, a fighter, a patriot and best of all, deserving. He deserves to win for all he's given to this country. We have to all understand a HUGE basic difference between McCain and Bush. McCain thinks for himself... Bush does not. McCain has made decisions that many Republican sometimes disagreed with; he was against torturing our detainees. He stood up for that. He voted against the Bush-Cheney tax hike,, Senator Hillary Clinton voted against it, Obama voted FOR it. Surprised? I'm not. My point is the DNC can play checkers all day because they are fired as far as I'm concerned; and I'm one of 18 Million. I plan to go to McCains Rallies with my pom poms and rooooooot for the best...I'm NOT voting for Obama. His name starts with zero.
I'm climbing on board with the straight talk express... beep beep
aggresion inviting weakness to would be enemies of the US and said enemies accept said invitation and kill thousands of Americans?
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." - The Chief Justice
Hi DemocratLawyer
You wrote:
"Today I attended my local Hillary campaign support group, and we have decided to throw our support to John McCain. I don't think the election scene is prepared for the multitude of passionate Hillacrats that are about to be unleashed on the political scene."
Your local group was very impressive with it's energy and passionate endorsement of John McCain. Person after person spoke up with such articulate vehemence on why they absolutely refuse to vote for Obama, and prefer John McCain. I was amazed that 86% of the group voted to endorse Senator McCain, and only 14% supported Obama. And that is the result from a group of New York City Democrats. After hours of meeting on a workday evening, the group was so energized and bubbling over with ideas even at the end, it bodes well for what we can accomplish.
Thank you for visiting me here in Red State, and personally I want to express my sorrow and concern at your recollection of the harrowing primary events you spoke of - that you has to go through having the Obama supporters in your neighborhood threaten to burn down your families' home because you put up Hillary for President yard signs. Your dedication to fight for what you believe in despite threats of devastating harm is powerful and admirable.
07rescue: After meeting us, you can best attest for how strongly we feel about standing up for what's right for America at this crucial time in our political history. Since NBC is not amenble to delivering our message for us, we will be happy to carry that banner ourselves!
As an aside, word is spreading about making it Rain for McCain on July 4th. Log onto www.johnmccain.com and donate $5.44 (the 44 represents the 44th President). Tell all your friends, spread the word.
If you think it is hard to wear a Hillary button in NYC, try wearing McCain gear in Maryland!! :)
It is funny how we do have so much in common with the rational Hillary folks, we have seen the same opponent do anything in their power to destroy us and how the media unfairly acts as a cheerleader to shape perceptions. A centrist campaign will hopefully bring us victory and allow us to save the country from the Obamabots..
"Small town folks get bitter after which they cling to guns or religion, or antipathy to people who aren't like them, or anti-immigrant sentiment"- Barack Carter Obama
An excellent proof point that a Redstate newbie can riff a great diary. Recommended.
The Unofficial RedState FAQ
“You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say. ” - Martin Luther
First off, the following comment was not mine: "I meant the parts about wanting to welcome in good faith and listen."
I have already made up my mind and am voting for McCain.
Secondly, I am here under one name and one name alone, DemocratLawyer. You are assuming that I am alone as a Hillacrat for McCain. HillaryDemNowMcCain is someone else who shares my sentiment.
Stay tuned, I am sure your candidate will be getting more supporters. They have already flooded the blogs on John McCain's website with great things to say; we are currently waging battle with Obamabots trying to slow things down on that site (we call those guys "trolls"), but we have Johnny's back.
Heh, hurray for nominating the most moderate Republican in the field.
Nice Blog
And our world. I'd be a lot more energetic about this if you guys would stop introducing yourselves by telling us what we already know and have lived through our entire republican lives. We know what is going to be tried against McCain. It has been used against every one of our candidates, whether icumbent or challenger as far back as any of us has been involved in politics.
So, like I said, welcome to our world.
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
"I'd be a lot more energetic about this if you guys would stop introducing yourselves by telling us what we already know and have lived through our entire republican lives."
I'm going to ask your forbearance if I often sound needlessly explanatory and duplicative here - and ask you to understand that I believe it is better not to confine what I say to the well seasoned already in this community. I and many others are inviting respectful and active Clinton Democrats to join me in this effort, and in large measure what I say is intended to rally us, not lecture you in a patronizing fashion, although I am sure I will fall into that too often.
One of the amazing things that has occurred in the Democratic Party this year is that many new people who have never before engaged in political discourse or activism are now engaged, and without naming the traditional processes involved many points will be lost for them. What is obvious to you is opaque and devoid of context and history to someone who has never before participated intimately in a campaign. No insult or assumption of ignorance or inexperience intended on my part, ever.
These new people bring a freshness and examination of what for us old timers are givens, and thus they are very valuable members. Their premises may be very different from ours at times, and that is both an opportunity for them to examine theirs, and for old timers to be sometimes shocked out of ours. I enjoy that they are not as set in their ideology as I have been, it's energizing. I invite you to observe some of this much as an anthropologist would take in the experience, and allow that the sincerity, enthusiasm, and absence of cynicism of many newcomers is very real, and can add shot in the arm of energy to what appears to us to be flagging Republican interest in this election.
Please forgive what you already know being restated, it could evolve into something more to your liking over time, as the basics are covered. I may ask you to clarify understandings you take for granted as the rational basis for discussion, for that purpose.
Also, I hope you will hear my main point, that what has always been in terms of election fixing is about to get dramatically worse than any we have ever seen, and it may now be critical to stop it before it becomes entrenched beyond easy removal. That may be the only point of value I have to offer you.
This is a welcoming and forgiving community, but when you start to preach (as I have on occasion) you'll get called on it. It's something we've had a lot of experience with and don't especially like. Redstaters come from the parts of the Republican Party that pride themselves on being responsible adults and speaking to us like we're children gets on our nerves fast.
Just so you know...
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
Wow, kind of saddened by that welcome wagon. Not here to tell you how to run your show, but I don't think 07rescue meant any wrong. Just lots of spring chickens entering the political arena who got their feathers plucked pretty badly this go-around. Perhaps not as cynical as the veterans are, still trying to catch our bearings.
In reply to:
"This is a welcoming and forgiving community, but when you start to preach (as I have on occasion) you'll get called on it. It's something we've had a lot of experience with and don't especially like. Redstaters come from the parts of the Republican Party that pride themselves on being responsible adults and speaking to us like we're children gets on our nerves fast."
Warning accepted and well taken. I will likely have to take some lumps for "preachy" and for overexplaining. Call me on it when it gets too obnoxious to tolerate.
Internet communication is really prone to misunderstandings, so I find it can be hard to strike a balance between assuming too much or too little common understanding between parties. I figure I will make mistakes in both directions regularly.
Be well.
Informed consent to taking chances is always better than blithely walking into walls, no? As you said, it doesn't mean knowing there's a wall will prevent you from ever walking into one, but at least you know to look for them now.
(...ow. Must remember I am not Juggernaut...)
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
07rescue. I'll admit that I developed a grudging respect for Senator Clinton during the primaries. Obama's media was incredibly unfair to her throughout. Every single stupid little thing was blown up so out of proportion it became ridiculous. The Bobby Kennedy remark controversy was stupid and fabricated. When it was discovered that *gasp* the Clinton's were rich, the media acted as if was some kind of political scandal. Bill Clinton's Jesse Jackson comment was supposed to have racial overtones, when it so clearly didn't. All of Hillary's supporters were rascists and high-school dropouts (probably Republicans anyway). The fact that Hillary won the popular vote count got almost no play among the MSM. Not to mention the constant demands for her to get out. I found it so ironic that despite the constant orders from the MSM for Hillary to drop out, she won primaries until the very end.
We're starting to see the same thing now with McCain. The MSM tells us that Reverend Wright is off limits and race-baiting. We can't talk about Bill Ayers, we can't talk about why Hamas wants Barack Obama to win, we can't talk about why he has so many Marxist friends, we can't talk the dirty Chicago political maching that made Barack Obama. We're told that Obama doesn't flip-flop when he so clearly does on issues like designating the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization or wearing the flap lapel pin. Associations with the New Party are not to be mentioned. Breaking his promise on public financing is no big deal. It hardly even deserves a mention. We're also told that he doesn't make gaffes. Not knowing where he is, not knowing how many states are in the union, telling impossible stories about his grandfather's military service, none of this happens. These are just mistakes, of course, (at least I hope to God), but I think people have a right to know about them. It's actually getting a little scary. When the New York Times tries to tell its readers that Barack Obama never said that he wanted to meet the leaders of pariah states like Iran and Cuba without preconditions, when he so clearly did, that scares me.
The MSM told you to give up. The MSM told you that you had no chance, that you should drop out, that you should just give up and fall in line behind the Messiah. They told you that after February 5th. You persevered for four more months and won the popular vote. Despite winning the popular vote and having a relatively smaller number of delegates, the media tried to hail it as a huge, impressive victory for Obama. It wasn't. The MSM will tell us to give up. We must not. They will tell us it is hopeless, they will tell us to give up. Obama will raise too much money. Obama will have too many people at his rallies. Too many celebrity endorsements. Too much enthusiasm. If polls show him garnering the support of .5% Republicans, he'll have too many crossover voters for McCain to compete. Hillary stayed competitive in the polls until the very end, and they told her it was over. Even if McCain is tied at the polls, they will probably still try and say it's a foregone conclusion. Numbers don't matter- remember, this is Obama. He can make his own numbers.
07rescue, you and I probably don't agree on a lot politically. But we can agree on a few basic principles. We can agree on the importance of media fairness and impartiality. We can agree on the importance of experience and real judgement in our national leaders. We can agree that saying the pledge of allegiance and wearing an American flag pin aren't meaningless. Certainly, we can agree that Barack Obama should NOT be the next president of these United States.
Very inspiring reply wlrer..
Already the media ignores polls where McCain is ahead like in Florida today by 11 (!!) and will only publish those that have Obama surging..
we are going to have to stay mentally tough and devoted.
"Small town folks get bitter after which they cling to guns or religion, or antipathy to people who aren't like them, or anti-immigrant sentiment"- Barack Carter Obama
You wrote:
"07rescue, you and I probably don't agree on a lot politically. But we can agree on a few basic principles. We can agree on the importance of media fairness and impartiality. We can agree on the importance of experience and real judgement in our national leaders. We can agree that saying the pledge of allegiance and wearing an American flag pin aren't meaningless. Certainly, we can agree that Barack Obama should NOT be the next president of these United States."
We do agree on all the points you have made. For me issue that supercedes all others now is that while election fraud has always played a role in elections, up until now it has appeared to be more or less a wash between the parties, but has not enjoyed widespread acknowledgment and approval by either side. What is occurring in the Democratic party at this point appears to me to be a large shift toward that process as a legitimate and tacitly approved method of winning elections, and whatever constraints on these activities have existed are no more.
I argue that if elections are fixed, all our other policy disagreements are moot, because elections will no longer be won on the basis of policy and public political will, but entirely on party connections and more spurious interests. There can be a variety of ways that we can combat this, I think we likely agree that all means should be employed, both the political and law enforcement tools are required for this effort to succeed.
I would apply this argument equally on both sides, but my impression has been that there may well be more of this dishonesty going on in my party now, so it is up to my party to fix it. There may not be enough of us to do it, and we may be ousted from any positions of influence. I'm very concerned. That is what persuades me to reach out to your party, and hope enough of you will respond.
and you are a great addition. I would note that this site has a decidedly conservative, not so much moderate bent, judging from the people who take the time to post and blog. That said, this campaign has done a lot to widen the discussion. John McCain is less conservative than many of us wish, but choosing to support him over Obama is truly a no-brainer just on national security alone. When all is said and done, it won't matter a damn what party labels we wear if the marxists get the keys.
The free exchange of ideas inevitably yields both heat and light.
07 and the other Clinton/former Dems are our most valuable members for the next few months. It is just like an insurgency, the only way to defeat the opponent is to think and act like him- to counter their moves before they even make them.
We need to think like the leftists and devise strategies and campaigns to expose their ideas and their tactics for the vast part of America that does not follow politics.
We can gain keen insight into the types of arguments to make to win over the moderate center of the country- where this battle will be won or lost in November..
"Small town folks get bitter after which they cling to guns or religion, or antipathy to people who aren't like them, or anti-immigrant sentiment"- Barack Carter Obama
Great words,, but don't forget Obama's middle name
Barach-Hussein-Kennedy-Carter-Dummy-Obama
hahahahahhahahahah Save this Country! Save this Country!
Straight Talk Express,,,, whooooo whooooooo!!!!!!!
I promise I'm not... I'm just Jaded from the abuse,, for a lack of words but now that you mention it.. I met you're an Obamabot coming around here to protect your Obama... just remember his name has a big fat ZERO in front of it!
nah nah nah nah nah
Go McCAIN 08,,, and you can tell Obama, we'll accept his vote too.
;)
Jaded, I am confused by your response. Are you confused too? Hillacrat4McCain is clearly sincere in her postings.
...Senator Obama's middle name. Pretty much cross-spectrum, too.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
that Hillcrat posted and tell me that does not look trollish, childish and most of all stupid...I am hardly confused...if you can seriously look at those posts and find anything sincere in them...well you win...but I am a gambling kind of woman and I suspect you will see how ridiculous they are!
Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion
You have mistaken sincere online cheerleading with the unspeakable. I know Hillacrat4McCain personally; she was one of the Hillacrats who voted to cross party lines to join McCain.
You lost the bet,
I'm out of here.
STill voting for MCain.
Too bad you're paranoid. Good Night all.
Be on the look out for those nasty trolls that mistreated me.
oh and Tim,, you will get more in life with sugar than with vinegar.. you sound miserable... try voting for McCain instead of Obama.... the big zero
;)
put up with when there are OBVIOUS Hillary voters for McCain...and this piece of stupidity can troll around...really?
Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion
I am voting for McCain. I ain't interested interested in attracting flies. And vinegar is a strong cleaner. I like the thought of cleaning out leftists from positions of power. Thank God Hillary didn't get the Demo-nod, she would have been a lot harder for us to beat.
Tim Schieferecke
I'm 40 and proud of it.
Have a blessed night.
See you at the polls,, I'll be the petite woman pulling the lever for John McCain,
And an exceptionally heavy-handed one, at that - at least, that's what my hate mail tells me. Personally, I think that I am a bundle of starlight and smoky jazz riffs, but then, I would. Anyway, when I suggest that people ramp it back, that's not really a suggestion.
So, everybody stay cool. Pretty please with sugar on top.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
She's all cleaned and ready to go. Sorry about that. Lot's of heavy use means extra hard job of cleaning out the gunk...
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
really know what you're talking about before spouting off. It makes you look like a fool.
Tim Schieferecke
She's a long time respected member of this community. She can take care of herself, but the above comment rubbed me the wrong way.
Tim Schieferecke
Please review the threads. There was nothing in Hillacrats comment to prompt Jaded to state "clean up the nasty". Nothing.
Why thank you Democrat,, don't worry, no matter what is said, I'm still voting Republican in November.
;)
realize that she's a newbie and Jaded has been here a long time with proven conservatism, she wouldn't have made a fool out of herself. You should really hang around here a bit before posting anything. It's very easy to put your foot in your mouth.
Tim Schieferecke
I of course was under the impression we actually use big people words here....but perhaps I am mistaken. I have welcomed many a Hillary supporter to the McCain party but I refuse to succumb to the children....if I wanted that I would teach but than I would be crazy...
Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion
Why are you and Jade so angry? You both sound like you have some kind of reason behind it. I certainly don't understand? I came on the site to get more information and opinions on a candidate I feel is the only candidate viable to to serve office of the USA. I certainly won't deter me of my decision. 99% of the Republicans I spoke to are charming and very inviting...
haven't taken the time to see that Jaded has been here a long time before calling her an Obama troll. It just made you look silly. Hey, I'm glad you're considering voting for McCain. I even left a nice message on your diary in case you didn't notice. Just take a little time before you spout off at long time members. That's all.
Tim Schieferecke
We're trying to be a bit friendlier to the newbies, remember? If someone's being a troll, just hit the contact form.
------------
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
"We can gain keen insight into the types of arguments to make to win over the moderate center of the country- where this battle will be won or lost in November.."
I hope that since many of the liberal/left points of view are incomprehensible to conservatives, as some of yours' are to us, that we can offer some of the talking points and lines of reasoning that will undercut the support for the Obama wing of the party. Even if some lines of reasoning feel foreign, flimsy, and even ludicrous to you, there are potent responses to be made.
I can over time offer some of them in as thoughtful a form as I can manage (and I hope others will also), always with the invitation to challenge and improve them with your own insight.
I almost didn't want to call you by your site name! I am guessing you are being humorous (LOL). I do gather that this site is home to many conservatives. However, I have always found it a bit fatal to take on any label (or to slap one on someone else). For one thing, sometimes our views on one or two issues might lean us politically towards one end or the other, but still leave much room for common middle ground.
I also agree there's no harm done in a healthy exchange of ideas. When I first started college, I met a friend who introduced himself as a conservative. By the time our political science class was over, we discovered that he was more liberal than I, and I more conservative than he! Sometimes our perspective of where we lie on the political spectrum can be affected by the collective political pulse of those around us; it affects our understanding of who we are politically as individuals. What a better way to discover ourselves than by switching it up a bit, and talking with a new group of thinkers!
see the humor in my nom de plume. The real background is that I was born a Kansas farmer's daughter and that I used to have somewhat liberal, i.e. hippie-like views at one time.
I still go on tree-hugging walks with my granddaughter. My Obama-voting daughters don't do that, they just send money to liberal causes.
The free exchange of ideas inevitably yields both heat and light.
While I do not exactly agree with your sentiments, your goals, or your willingness to proceed in this fashion I certainly do applaud your activism.
If my party does not currently suit you then by all means partake of your other options. Democracy is a wonderful thing and no one is forced to vote in a way they find immoral or inexpedient.
For what its worth I don't think you'll like what you get, but my opinion is neither solicited or particularly relevant.
Good luck and godspeed.
than why did you give it?
I really do not find that you are promoting conservative/republican causes here....because we here do not think anyone voting Obama is going to get what they like and the rest of us who would shoot ourselves before voting for the marxist would definitely not be getting what we like!
Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion
Reasonable people can disagree reasonably. I have tried to do that. I have, on occasion, misstepped here. I have always tried to be gracious.
If my kindness offends....
We are in an existential battle for the soul of our nation's institutions and traditions. This being the case, you can shove it if you think anyone here is going to be "reasonable" when talking about Obama in anything but the worst kind of light. He would be very, very bad for America. His type of vision for the future isn't what our blessed troops have fought and died for for 232 years. America IS a great nation, blessed by God.
Tim Schieferecke
I would prefer not to engage the laundry list of issues I have with your comment, as it would derail this blog at length.
Have a good evening.
Or are you chicken??? This post IS about Obama and how very, very BAD he would be for America. Give me some of your laundry list and I'll give you back some used Depends undergarments from an old folk's home after a chili supper.
Tim Schieferecke
You can count a significant number of my kin and friends among those blessed troops. They don't agree with you in the slightest. I will assume that your opinion of them and their blessed nature is in no way diminished by the fact that they have, in my presence, largely mocked remarks of the sort you wrote?
As to calling him a "marxist" I would ask you from whence you've arrived at this notion? Has he suggested that we abolish private property? Are we to have a command economy? Is the proletariat to rule over us all? The dialectic beckons, and we must all accept the inevitable truth of it?
You can argue with some evidence that he sees life through the lens of class. That is a pale shadow of Marxism. If you're going to use so loaded a term I would suggest you use one that actually means something applicable to the person described.
I am no chicken. Do not mistake my manners for cowardice. You would do well to accept the grace I choose to display as opposed to mocking it.
oil companies. They make about 8.5% profit. Is that excessive in your twisted little world? He wants to raise taxes not because of increasing revenue but because of "fairness". From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. He wants to create a "Green Corps" to make work exactly like the socialist FDR. He wants to give terrorists constitutional rights to OUR courts. SCREW HIM!!! I know you can't see any of this in your Obama sunshine and lollipops autism, but it's not my problem if you choose to be willfully ignorant as to life's inconvenient little truths. What's that on your face? A bit of undigested corn???
Tim Schieferecke
"I know you can't see any of this in your Obama sunshine and lollipops autism, but it's not my problem if you choose to be willfully ignorant as to life's inconvenient little truths. What's that on your face? A bit of undigested corn???"
I'm impressed. You've managed to enfilth yourself in a way I'd not considered possible. You can insult me all you like, but if you could perhaps avoid using something as horrible as autism thusly, I'd consider it very Christian of you.
As to, perhaps, the only semi-salient "point" in the above screed, I will reply thusly:
We've released dozens from GTMO that had not been taken during combat, but had instead been sold out by other Afghanis. Those Afghanis have been fighting essentially a civil war since just after the Soviets left. A cash bounty makes ratting out an enemy all the sweeter. Some of those we scooped up were our own enemies, and others were not. The procedural right of habeus corpus serves to offer someone who is imprisoned essentially one right, one shot, one hope, and it is very simply this:
"Hey, your honor, they've got the wrong guy." If the government can make a reasonable showing that they DON'T have the wrong guy then back to GTMO he goes. That's it. We did take some percentage of people who were not our enemies. The two fourteen year olds were my personal favorite.
Do you trust our government to magically have known in the madness that was 2002 Afghanistan exactly who was and was not our enemy when a decent chunk of our detainees were sold out for a bounty? A single innocent man in Gitmo would take small solace in knowing he was the only innocent one.
Hang our enemies. I'll not shed a single tear. That doesn't mean that I trust the Executive branch to determine, without error, exactly who they caught. The particulars of how we managed to grab some of these guys is abhorrent to me.
If you don't think that members of one warlord's faction wouldn't sell out members of another just to make their own little slice of hell a tad larger, you're frankly beside yourself with ignorance. We didn't take all of them in combat. We didn't take all of them whilst they were taking up arms against us.
Some of those we took should not have been taken. Do you have any sympathy for an innocent man at GTMO? And please, spare me the inevitable reply, full of fire and brimstone, about those who deserve it. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the fact that we can't SEND a lot of these guys home because their home countries will not take them.
There is a cost to what we have done. Some of us acknowledge it. Others relish it.
Extending habeus corpus is not the same thing as extending the full panoply of Constitutional rights to non-citizens. And lest we forget, the Constitution does not exist to enshrine, or grant, those rights to mankind. No, the Constitution exists to reaffirm that which our creator endowed us with. The Constitution serves to limit the powers of government. It is a trap, made by man to ensnare man in his own morass of self-gratification and self-aggrandizement. That trap may have failed us.
I don't yet know.
they needed no help from judges.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZGEwMTY5YTU3NGRiOWUyMzkxZTU3MDE1ZWU...
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." - The Chief Justice
humility example you claimed upthread.
read the mccarthy link and you will see that we had an effective system in place, short of HC, that the court suggested we craft with pres and congress.
Now the SCOTUS in a raw power grab has created chaos.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." - The Chief Justice
parking lot. It would have been a lot easier to just make them all glow orange for a millisecond. Oh well, there's always next time.
Tim Schieferecke
Not funny.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
Ah, yes. Wanton and meaningless slaughter. That's the ticket. Certainly it's something both Godly and patriotic.
I would think that bringing terribly and furious justice to those who harmed us would be sufficient, but perhaps you're right. Innocent children, infants even, they've gotta go too! It's their own damned fault for not doing something about it...
...you may withdraw now.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
Apologies. I was writing that when you commented. I had not seen your response, and had I done so I would not have replied myself. Timing is, as they say, everything.
No more jokes about turning countries to glass.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
The hand of justice works in reverse with persons from the enemy captured during wartime as opposed to criminals captured in the USA during anytime.
The former are most often held, with no charges pending btw, until the cessation of hostilities. Last I checked, we were still engaged in hostilities in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Furthermore "A cash bounty makes ratting out an enemy all the sweeter" doesn't matter. They were taken on the field of battle (even if they weren't in combat, a warzone, the Entire warzone, is the field of battle) and need to sit out the rest of the war. Holding a few innocents may or may not happen, but better they be held in our POW camps and taken care of the way we take care of them than they be out there risking getting killed by one side or the other. At least in Gitmo, they can be guaranteed of a next meal and a warm bed.
However, taking the chance of Releasing someone who is Not innocent is too much to ask. We're dealing with truly terrible people, in case you hadn't noticed.
In the justice system, placing an innocent in jail robs him of at least part of his life.
In a war, placing an innocent in a POW camp places him in a safe place away from the fighting and removes potential risk from our troops.
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
impossible.
News flash--innocent people die in war.
Yes, errors are made in war. Many of those errors kill. Other of those errors can land someone as a prisoner.
There cannot be a presumption of innocense in war. I am not saying U.S. troups should be cavalier about it. However, the laws the apply in peace time to a New York City mugger cannot be applied to a suspicious person identified by soldiers in a war zone.
Your rules would mean a defeat in WWII and Korea.
Devising rules that make victory impossible is another way of pursuing suicide.
war be allowed to sue for money damages in civilian US courts? Should the President have to get an arrest warrant from a judge to pursue enemies in a war in say, Afghanistan and Iraq?
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." - The Chief Justice
Do you have any idea whatsoever of what kind of vetting process detainees go through before they are allowed to reach Gitmo? You Do know that the vast majority are just turned over to the local government for trial under their own laws, right?
So, no. No pity whatsoever for any Gitmo detainee. least of all an innocent one. He's alive. He's safe. He's well fed. He will face the US military's judicial system. A far more even-handed and fair court than just about any other on Earth.
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." - The Chief Justice
"Has he suggested that we abolish private property? Are we to have a command economy?"
And it seems a large portion of his party agrees with him (or else, he's following along with them, which would actually be worse since he's supposed to be a "leader"). Or have you missed the calls for nationalizing the oil companies?
Certainly sounds to me like the first step of "abolishing private property" and getting a "command economy".
We've got a few diaries on his party-members declaring that this is exactly their goal.
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
Great blog! Recommended! By the way, I couldn't agree more about Republicans needing to reach out to Clinton supporters. I wrote a blog about this (and about Obama's overall weakness) recently--the link is below. I also linked an op-ed from The Weekly Standard which talks about the Right's grudging respect for Hillary Clinton (which is, now, on my blog). I'm not trying to toot my own horn by linking my blog, but rather I'm trying to reinforce the importance of Republicans bringing Clinton supporters into the fold, in order to defeat Obama--who I agree is bad news. :-)
http://www.redstate.com/blogs/susannah/2008/jun/11/barack_obama_is_a_wea...
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/063kva...