So, you like that $4.00/gal. gas, huh?
By Achance Posted in Energy — Comments (195) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Well, once again the Senate has refused to sanction opening ANWR, story here: http://www.adn.com/anwr/story/405342.html
I love the irony of the Dems and even a few Rs, claiming they're doing something about fuel prices by stopping a few thousand barrels a day from going to the Strategic Reserve but refusing to take an action that would put 1 MM/bbl./dy. into the US supply in a year or two if the enabling legislation also limited the litigation. Guess Greenie money and votes are more important to the Honorable Gentlemen and Ladies.
The CW is that ANWR production is ten years or more away after approval, but that assumes the same litigation delays that went on with Prudhoe Bay and TAPS. Prudhoe Bay was tapped and the TransAlaska Pipeline built in a little over three years of actual construction; the delay was from Alaska Native and environmental lawsuits. The Native Claims are no longer an issue, TAPS is built, and all that would be required is to construct wells and feeder lines to put the product into the TAPS system.
Anyway, as I've said before, I don't much care any more. Even though Alaska's production is only about half of its historic highs these days, the astronomical prices, ANS over $120/bbl., has us rolling in money, your money. So, we're having a special session of the Legislature this summer to give ourselves a nice fuel cost subsidy so we don't have to pay the high energy prices. Y'all just keep loving those caribou.
Problem is we have spineless idiots in congress.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
None of them want to fix it either. I wonder how much we'll be paying in 2012.
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. --- John Adams
...since I'm quite confident I'll soon be facing $5.00 or even $6.00 per gallon gas, given the lunatic energy policies of our government mavens. And when that time comes (soon) I'll remember $4.00 per gallon with great nostalgia.
On the other hand, we are proving that even the U.S. Congress cannot repeal the laws of economics. As the price has gone up, I find ways to drive fewer miles - more carefully planning trips, forgoing trips in some cases - which means that my demand is decreasing. And from what I'm reading in the local press, my neighbors are doing the same.
If we can just keep Congress from trying to solve wreck the housing and credit markets and allow the dollar to stabilize, the invisible hand would have a chance to establish a new market price for gas.
**********************************
By the way, Achance, how do you plan on keeping Alaska from going the way of all the other oil-rich countries we see sliding into despotism.
It isn't easy since Alaska has such a powerful central government; set up that way Cohstitutionally. That is compounded by the fact that, as is the case in many of those countries, the People are generally apathetic so long as the money flows to them in something like the amounts they expect. The actual sums are so large relatively that few can comprehend how much the State actually spends and what for. The cynical among us always joked that you could do anything as long as you didn't close a fishing or hunting season and the Permanent Fund Dividend was over $1000. It is pretty much true.
That said, the State is THE player in the economy and buying something from one vendor or contractor leaves another out. If that vendor or contractor doesn't like how you made the purchase or let the contract, he sues. It is time consuming and creaky but except for some monopoly providers who can get anything they want, it keeps it at least somewhat honest.
The scariest thing I saw in my tenure was the Knowles (Democrat) Administration's attempt to make the World safe for their friends by simply repealing all the rules relating to procurement, financial management, and hiring. Since so much of the regulatory scheme for internal controls is ministerial and regulatory in nature, a Governor or Commissioner can rewrite the rules with a stroke of a pen. Of course, regs have to be consistent with statute and if they go too far, somebody will sue, but a suit like that takes a player with the wallet for it and who really wants to make it an issue. Most would conclude that it is easier to just make a deal with the Gov and Commish so they can get or keep their hooves in the trough. Knowles had to contend with a Republican Legislature that didn't believe anything the Administration said or trust anything they did, so they never got the hegemony they sought. A Democrat governor with a Democrat legislature could easily turn a state stuctured like Alaska in to a Soviet-style "Democratic" republic because the media would support them in doing it and the majority of the People wouldn't care as long as they got their PFD. A Republican could never do it because the media, principally the McClatchey-owned Anchorage Daily News, hounds any R about anything they do and many of the non-profits and quasi-governmentals are Democrat fronts, so if they don't get "theirs," they start howling.
In Vino Veritas
(which it was) and your thoughtful answer.
You spelled out well how that eternal trinity of money, sex, and power* (in its political manifestation) is at work in Alaska just as in other energy-rich entities.
Sounds like the best way to resist this siren call is 1) divided government, and 2) voting the bums out periodically so that the citizens enjoys the benefits of the learning curve while newbies have to learn where the bodies are buried (figuratively and/or literally).
Wouldn't it also be beneficial if Alaska could broaden its economic base beyond enery?
*formerly called "the world, the flesh, and the devil"
Unfortunately, mining doesn't provide all that many jobs done the high-tech way and tourism is vulnerable to all sorts of factors. And then there's the fishing industry which nothing the size of a state can rely on.
Those plus government and oil are Alaska's primary economic movers.
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
will usually answer any tough question in government. You're right though; divided government is the only check. If either party achieved anything like hegemony, something akin to tyranny is the result. We came close enough with the Rs here thinking they had it all under control in the Murkowski Administration. I can't say I liked what the FBI did here, there were better places for them to do their thing, but our government had it coming.
As to broadening the economy; with what? The Knik Arm Bridge (to nowhere) was an attempt to divert some Asian shipping away from the Left Coast and to the Great Circle route to the interior US via Alaska. Stupid Republicans bought off on the Left Coast Democrat's howls about that and who knows if that will ever be built. Tourism is cyclic and the revenue is peanuts. Fishing and even mining are commodities that never sell for long above the bare minimum necessary to ensure production unless somebody can establish a monopoly, e.g. OPEC. Got any ideas; you could run for governor. God knows pretty, perky Sarah could use some ideas.
In Vino Veritas
Who's getting laid or paid
So long as politicians show some self control and make sure the same people aren't getting both laid and paid, politicans cruise along just fine.
Where the politicians get nailed is when they overreach (out of arrogance or out-of-control risk-taking) and they both pay AND lay the same person - be it in the form of prostitutes (e.g. Spitzer) or getting their girlfriend/lover a job at taxpayer expense (e.g. Kilpatrick [Detroit]) - or in some cases getting their boyfriend/lover that state job (e.g. McGreevey [NJ]).
Of course, there are always outliers, such as Illinois' Ryan, perhaps the only politician in American history who got forced out of running for office for having sex with his wife.
**************************************************
I'm thinking about other economic sources for Alaska - it's a different form of the protection from divided government (in this case, the division coming out of a natural rivalry between monied interests).
I decided July 1, 2006, was a good day to retire. My boss decided to make a former subordinate of mine his deputy, which would have made her my boss at least on the org chart, because of her "horizontal skills." My first thought was, "WTF, nobody else who slept with her promoted her," and I decided then and there that these were people I just really didn't need to be associated with anymore - I was two years past retirement eligibility anyway.
What amazed me about the scandals and convictions here was how cheaply and unnecessarily these politicians ruined their lives, sold out the State's interests, and damaged the Republican brand; we're talking chump change! I won't say I'd never steal - I learned a long time ago to never say never, but I sure wouldn't steal anything that wouldn't allow me to live out my days comfortably in a warm country with no extradition treaty.
As to the economic development, Alaska is ideally suited geographically for some high-tech industry or assembly. It has lots of land, low taxes, and relatively low wages by Left Coast standards. Unfortnately, little of that land is private and getting the State to do anything with it, like woo an industrial concern, becomes a very, very nasty political game. First, the people who have private land will oppose it because State disposal will drive down the value of their usually very overpriced land. The Greenies will oppose it because they oppose everything. The unions will oppose it so that they can insist that their support is contingent on the plant being built union at Davis-Bacon wages and the condition precedent to the plant opening is that the employees will be unionized, which destroys much of the economic advantage that might otherwise exist. I can go on, but you can see what a very powerful government can do to impede economic activity.
In Vino Veritas
...since I'm quite confident I'll soon be facing $5.00 or even $6.00 per gallon gas, given the lunatic energy policies of our government mavens. And when that time comes (soon) I'll remember $4.00 per gallon with great nostalgia.
On the other hand, we are proving that even the U.S. Congress cannot repeal the laws of economics. As the price has gone up, I find ways to drive fewer miles - more carefully planning trips, forgoing trips in some cases - which means that my demand is decreasing. And from what I'm reading in the local press, my neighbors are doing the same.
If we can just keep Congress from trying to solve wreck the housing and credit markets and allow the dollar to stabilize, the invisible hand would have a chance to establish a new market price for gas.
**********************************
By the way, Achance, how do you plan on keeping Alaska from going the way of all the other oil-rich countries we see sliding into despotism.
that the dems are more than willing to have gas prices run up as high as needed in order for us to totally get off of gas. For them, Big Oil is the problem and the product they peddle is killing polar bears and will turn us all into cannibals in 40 years. They think the only way we (the uninformed masses clinging to our guns and religion) will realize all of this is if they make the price of oil and gas so high that we beg congress to give us ethanol, hydrogen, and the other options that don't rape and pillage mother nature. Until then, they are content to sit idly by while the working class of America suffers and scrapes to make ends meet. For them, the end justifies the means.
If we had a nation of Nukes for electricity and hydrogen cell cars for transportation, what would happen all the gold flowing into the middle east?
"Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. ... including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy,
Hydrogen Fuel Cells would be as rare as they are now.
Abundant, cheap electricity would make the electric car viable.
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
The transportation fuel source problem is tougher than the stationary fuel source problem. Nuclear power and natural gas are great for generating electricity for homes, offices, and other non-mobile contexts.
I don't see the problem. By the time the plants were built, the batteries would be up to the job.
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
From what I've heard, battery technology has hit "the wall". There have been advancements in the last few years, but they seem to be at the end of the road with it for now. That's going to be a big problem.
We don't know what we need.
HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Right now Goldman Sachs has a prediction that oil prices could rise to $150 to $200 within two years.
Hold on to your seat belts. It isn't over yet!
Wubbies World, MSgt, USAF (Retired):
public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.println(""The only reason that some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.")
Oil price has increased about $90/barrel resulting in a $2.00 increase in gasoline prices, yet you assert that a further $23/barrel increase will result in a $6.00 increase in gas prices? Can you explain that to me? Or are you adding in the Democrat's tax increase of $5.00 gallon?
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Don't be a fool, ANWR will not make a dent in global oil consumption and supply and our price of gas and oil products.
Only us giving up are gas guzzling ways is going to have any major effect. Our per capita gas consumption is the highest n the world and the majority of all oil used in the USA goes for one thing only - Motor Gasoline.
Also GAS will be soon in the $5 to $6 a gallon range so get use to it, our gas guzzling chickens have come home to roost.
So the answer is not to drill for more oil. Why? Your thinking is insane and sadly is shared by way too many people.
There are a lot of little ANWRs out there. If we bothered to drill, we could add to supply. Supply is as important to price as demand.
Or is there another agenda here?
but complain about high prices" meme that is the problem. ANWR is not a solution by itself, but it would add a bit to the supply. And there are other things that could be done to increase or free up supply that are being blocked by stupid regulations and just plain irrational fear.
AChance actually KNOWS what's he's talking about. How about you? Got any background or even links to something that supports your arguments?
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
This statement is a lie and total fabrication - "action that would put 1 MM/bbl./dy. into the US supply in a year or two"
and actually knows what he's talking about.
You, however, are just a screaming lib with no facts and no clue.
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Be glad you're on the other end of a computer and not across a room or your a*s would be well on its way to a whipping.
The ENTIRE TAPS was built in only about three years, read some history. The delay from the '68 discovery was Native Claims and environmental ligation.
The ten or more years is just propaganda to convince idiots like you that it shouldn't be done.
But as I've said, I don't much care because I'm really enjoying spending your money.
In Vino Veritas
If you are not a liar then you just don't what you are talking about which makes you just plain ignorant !
It would take 2-years to just sell the leases, you are just an ignorant fool.
You're trying to tell someone who was involve in the Alaskan government who dealt with production matters on a regular basis that he doesn't know what he's ignorant. Then spout liberal talking points with NO back up and expect ANYONE to take you seriously.
IDIOT!
*Sorry Moe, I just can't help myself on this one.
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Unfair. Unbalanced. Unmedicated. -- IMAO
The producers just paid over $2BB for leases in the Chukchi Sea where there is NOTHING proven. Stopping that development is part of what all this polar bear nonsense is about. ANWR has proven reserves and is close to the TAPS complex.
Anyway, if Alaska needs to bolster its production, we can slant drill from State land to tap the same reservoir that underlies ANWR and there's not a thing the federal government or damned fools like you can do about it and that, too, is one of the reasons for all the polar bear nonsense. The Greenies know that they can't use their federal friends to stop Alaska from drilling on its own land, so they want that stupid bear declared endangered so they can use that to try to stop the State.
In Vino Veritas
Oh, here it is:
If we can have a Kowalski button in RS 3, we gotta have an Idiot button to push in times like this...
The Unofficial RedState FAQ
“You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say. ” - Martin Luther
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
And a "kowalski button"?
...gee, coining a phrase based on someone else's regular posting habits goes a long ways these days...
...Should have copyrighted it. I'd be rich by now.
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
if the enabling legislation also limited the litigation.
If we get the d### lawyers out of the equation, it ain't all that hard to get up and running.
Unfair. Unbalanced. Unmedicated. -- IMAO
Watch your mouth when it comes to other users here, especially users who know what they are talking about.
Unfair. Unbalanced. Unmedicated. -- IMAO
Dems: Let's stop contributing to the SPR so that there is more of an oil supply in the market to relieve the high prices.
Me: Well how about drilling the Atlantic continental shelf or ANWR, that will increase supply also, thus reducing price and also adding employment.
Dem response: It won't have much impact on price, maybe pennies worth, and we must save the polar bear!
I could see if they wanted to sell some of the reserves in the SPR, at least make some money from the $126/barrel, but to say adding supply to the mkt. from our reserves instead of adding supply from drilling is hypocritical.
If you want info and real data (which only takes about 60 secs to find on the web) just go here to start your reading efforts.
http://www.earthscape.org/r1/maj02/
There is plenty more to support the facts that ANWR makes no difference for a long time.
We produce ~ 5 Million barrels a day. It will take ANWR 5 to 10 years from 2008 to produce just 1+ million BPD. About 20-30 years to get peak production etc.
We Import 14 million BPD a few 100k or 1Mil we have little impact.
But $6 a gallon is going to have a HUGE impact. Conservation is the only true answer our energy supply problems. We need to get our Motor Gasoline usage down to the 3 million BPD or less to stop this ever increasing price for a Barrel of Oil.
Unfair. Unbalanced. Unmedicated. -- IMAO
...is to institute taxes and mandates that have the effect of slowing the economy, costing jobs, production, and serious restrictions in lifestyle. That's fine if that's what you think is appropriate, but our elected officials need to be upfront with the voters in describing just what they can expect. I don't think Americans are going to be willing to do that.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
to tell me about oil resources or economics. I've spent the last twenty years working with the best consultants, petroleum geologists, and petroleum economists in the World.
The saddest thing in America today is that fools like you are allowed to vote; some people really are fit only for slavery.
In Vino Veritas
I am Geophysics / Physics (Bachelor Science) degreed person and I have a Master of Science in Environmental Sciences.
I live in Texas all my life and worked in the oil production industry. I cannot say I am active currently because I have left the industry and I am now in Aerospace Industry. but I do keep up with this subject.
The data is there if you would bother to try and read it, instead of spouting your biased uneducated beliefs. Since you don't like to read much - start with only the summary from the EIA.gov study conducted may 2004. (2nd post)
http://www.earthscape.org/r1/maj02/
http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/pdf2html.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftonto.eia.doe.gov%2Fftproot%2Fservice%2Fsroiaf(2004)04.pdf&images=yes
The opening of the ANWR 1002 Area to oil and gas development is projected to increase domestic oil production starting in 2013. In 2025, the coastal plain of ANWR is projected to reach 0.9 million barrels per day under the USGS mean oil resource case, and 0.6 and 1.6 million barrels per day under the low and high resource cases,
respectively.
Well that just eliminated any vestigial credibility you might have had. I'd think a "scientist" wouldn't use unreliable sources like earthscape and msnbc.
But, I tire of you. In many ways it is good for our Country to have idiots like you; it keeps the labor force docile and cheap.
In Vino Veritas
Try the dept of energy's on report in May 2006 - but I am sure reading is not your strong suit.
In fact it appears most on this thread never bother to read anything but biased Political Commentary.
Sorry an educated person doesn't buy in all, this Bullshxt by spouted by uneducated people on this site. You and your lot will not even read the reports from the EIA (#1 Govt Authority) that say it will take 10+ years to develop 1-million BPD.
Please go back to sleep or turn on the Talk radio !!
If I could read, I might be able to what you were trying to communicate.
P.S. I am a far better reader then you are a writer
Is that new code for Custodian Engineering?
"Worked in the oil production industry" and lived in Texas your entire life. That could mean so many things.
You don't sound kosher to me as being from the oil patch.
M Penny
You say you "worked in the oil industry".
What did you DO in the oil industry? And was that before or after college?
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
Please don't cite leftist environmental groups and attempt to pass them off as objective, respectable sources.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
Your uneducated if you refuse to read both sides of an argument, I believe in reading and understanding both sides.
That how a person truly becomes educated and can make and educated and knowledgeable decision.
Sorry for disturbing your biased - one sided beliefs. YOU CAN GO BACK TO SLEEP NOW.
...and also the one who has called people here who are very knowledgable about the oil & gas business "liars".
Earthscape is not an objective source, and your arguments, that are carbon-copied off of their website, are not credible, frankly.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
To summarize:
You can insult everyone else because you are one of the elite truth seers and the rest of us are ignorant boobs
People question you andyou yell (all caps) and act all indignant
perhaps and this is just a suggestion...you might want to check your spelling and grammer....just saying!
Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion
Anyone who starts a sentence with "your uneducated" and claims a BS and a Masters .. had better hope the next word is a noun such as mother, sister, fellow moonbat.
Otherwise, they must not have required English at your college.
If you're going to accuse people of being uneducated I suggest you're going to need to brush up on the proper form of contractions associated with the verb to be.
M Penny
nonsense --
ANWR could be brought on line in a couple of years. How you say -- well it would involve a multiple construction teams building the production pipeline.
Also offshore Atlantic or Pacific production could also be brought in in less than a year.
American oil companies would have to mobilize the way the defense industry did at WWII.
Oil production is a function of the flow from the reserve. If the oil is pumped/produced too quickly, a portion of the reservoir is trapped and shut-in. However, signficant improvements are made each year in how to produce from different reservoir structures.
Also, we need to address refining concerns and the type of oil used to refine into gasoline. Not only do we need for refineries in the US -- we need substantial improvements in the refining process that would allow for conversion of something other than sweet crude.
Let's re-open all those plugged West Texas sour wells.
M Penny
US govt (Energy Dept) says other wise read the EIA.gov report - doesn't anyone read on this site ?????
Prudhoe Bay would be played out by 2007. I got a flash for you, government "experts" have their own agendae and they're usually based more on politics than science.
In Vino Veritas
That right - educated people who do this for a living for the US Govt have an evil agenda to play out(especially since these people work for George Bush)
But people who are totally out of this process with very little education who get all their news from Redstate.com and Rush Limbaugh REALLY know what they are talking about and have no agenda.
Keep drinking you conservative delusional cool-aide.
I believe simply in Conservative Economics and the facts are Demand has out Stripped Supply and oil is going to continue to rise in value and our only true hope for the long term is to swtich to alternative form of energy use like:
1. Nuclear.
2. Wind
3. Solar
A very astute Oil Millionaire/Billionaire stated 2 years ago that in 2006 we had hit peak world oil production and we are now on the back end of the oil production curve.
The believe we must began a massive new investment in new technology to covert our country in a high electricity use country and save oil for where it really makes sense: Diesel fuel, Jet Juel, Propanes/propylenes, PetroChemical uses, etc.
You gave some alternatives to oil for future use. All well and good....
But your desperate sounding postings here seem to indicate an irrational fear of bringing new supply online to help meet the new demands. WHY?
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
I never said don't bring new suppllies online.
I simply said:
a) AChance is wrong in 1M BPD in 1-2 years.
b) Even when you get 1M BPD, it will make very little difference in the world price of oil (#1 factor in the cost of gasoline) since we are talking more than 10 years.
c) The oil demand in 10 years we be much higher than it is now. Thanks to USA & other industrialized counties shipping of its jobs to India and China. They are growing at about 10% a year or more. Their oil demand is simply out stripping the ability to bring more supplies online.
Simply World oil production is currently ~ 87 million BPD,
Don't make me laff and try and say ANWR will have any effect in 10 years or less, try more like 15-20 years.
I will give a simple and easy way to drop oil prices immediately. Ban imports from China. China's economy will tank, their demand will drop rapidly and so will prices.
Inducing a world wide economic depression would reduce demand for oil.
Of course it would induce world wide famine, global unrest, likely trigger WW3, and a host of other minor side effects, but it would achieve your goal of reducing demand for oil.
Well maybe not. It will take a LOT of oil to provide fuel for all the tanks, ships, planes and trains required to fight the wars you triggered, but hey it's worth it to prevent drilling an ANWR, right?
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Wouldn't that also devalue the Dollar even more, which would then increase the cost of oil and therefore the cost of gas?
"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!
to surge like it never has before because people would want to put US currency underneath their mattresses all over the world.
A global depression would also cause the "trade deficit" to go away.
Monetary policy, the effects of China dumping their hoard of dollars, artificial trade imbalances, the increased industrial production to support building all the tanks, the increased printing of dollars to pay for those tanks. I can't work it all out.
I'm just glad FWguy isn't in charge of deciding our trade policy so we won't have to find out. 8*)
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
All of America's allies would be purchasing every piece of US military hardware they could get their hands on. Not to mention the fact that just about the only stable currencies in that environment would be the Yen, Dollar and Pound Stirling...
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
*ka-click* Behave.
HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
FWGuy -- to mix my metaphor's it is best to stop digging when your a%$ is showing.
Your first mistake is believing the nonsense they spew over at KOS or whereever from whence you came that conservatives and Republicans are uneducated neanderthals.
So, if you're going to continue to post at RS, I suggest that you understand this is a highly educated, experienced and informed audience. You're not going to be able to claim experience or education you don't possess without being challenged.
M Penny
This is a crowd (some) who doesn't like to read and it shows !!
Who think scientist are evil and have agenda's to control the world. Who thinks George Bush's own Dept of Energy has a hidden agenda and anything they publish must be wrong or totally a lie.
When a people cannot quote facts and make assertions like Authorize drilling in 2008 and you get 1 Million barrels of oil a day in 2009 or 2010.
Well THESE folks (not all republicans) are people who: "conservatives and Republicans & are uneducated neanderthals."
giving lectures.
Your version of English: "This is a crowd (some) who doesn't like to read and it shows"
Educated English: There are some in this crowd who don't like to read and it shows"
Your version of English: "Who think scientist are evil and have agenda's to control the world"
Educated English: There are some who think that scientists are evil and have agendas to control the world
Your version of English: "When a people cannot quote facts and make assertions like Authorize drilling in 2008 and you get 1 Million barrels of oil a day in 2009 or 2010"
Educated English: When a people cannot quote any facts and instead make assertions like authorizing drilling in 2008 can result a million barrels of oil a day as early as 2009 or 2010
Your version of English: "Well, THESE folks (not all Republicans) are people who: 'conservatices and Republicans & undedcuated neaanderthals"
Educated English: [This sentence is so grammatically flawed that I can't reconstruct it]
You need to go back to grammer school and learn grammer. Your use of the English language is embarassing. You aslo have an underdeveloped sense of shame.
Educated English: There are some wh
are a few zero's separating them....do you have a link to the aforementioned millionaire/billionaire?
Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion
yes, here is just a couple of articles on him.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/01/africa/ME-FIN-Pickens-Oil-Peak...
There are many articles to be read that shows statically oil production cresting in the 2006 thru 2008 timeframe.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2008/170408_b_oil.htm
and those pesky old wells keep producing and fields keep being found and developed. 'Course, if I were speculating in oil futures, I'd be crying "peak oil" all the time too. Now I really am going to go help the State economy by burning some gas and catch a King Salmon (I hope).
In Vino Veritas
I would like to say I am sorry for saying - you are a liar.
I think you are misinformed but not a liar - sorry.
A professor says the sky is falling, and he thinks he is Moses giving the news to us dolts.
No sense of historical perspective
1960s We are about to hit a peak in oil production
1970s Has oil production peaked
1980s Oil is a finite resource, is the peak near
1990s How much oil is left
2000s Oil Production--we are running out
Kind of like
1960s Global Cooling--we must do something soon
1970s Global Cooling--we must do something now
1980s Global Warming--- uh, ignore what we said before
1990s Global Warming --- only 10years to save the world
2000s Climate Change --- er, a natural cooling trend is artificially undoing man-made global warming, but that will end, then we will really be in trouble
Unfair. Unbalanced. Unmedicated. -- IMAO
I also am ROTFLMAO. I award 5 Lobsters but the thread's too narrow for the gif!
Oil production is dynamic, just like other aspects of the economy.
Technological developments and economic factors cannot be plopped onto a linear graph that is used as gospel for the next 20 years.
You should have gotten a job working for the oil ministry in the Soviet Union.
He's heavily invested in alternative sources right now.
Also, I believe he recently made public statements that he was short oil. That's hardly a position that matches a belief that we have achieved peak oil.
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
And, you know, Clinton also said ANWR would take 10 years to produce. TEN YEARS AGO! Just imagine where we'd be now if he'd just opened the da**ed thing.
.
as you claim then you would know that underlying every "production" estimate are countless assumptions about deployment of production assets.
Change the underlying assumptions and you change the production numbers.
M Penny
Quite a bit in fact.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/arcti...
You'll notice in the reference section...no production companies are listed, simply government agencies...which do not manufacture or install oil equipment.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/arcti...
You'll also note that the report was done in 2002. If it had been implemented (as it should have been) back then, it would be about ready to ease the pressure we face right now.
Unfortunately, it never got launched and it isn't ready for us now. So, should we keep sticking our heads in the sand, or begin to prepare for both short and long term survival?
Erik
supposed to believe anything the Gov't said. Now we have to believe what the Gov't said??? I'm so confused!!!!
"We need to get our Motor Gasoline usage down to the 3 million BPD or less to stop this ever increasing price for a Barrel of Oil."
That just leaves more oil for China and India to drink up. We need more production that (yes, in this case I DO support protectionism) only gets sold to American refineries for American use.
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
Don't worry Tax increases are not necessary.
Gasoline will go over $6 a gallon in 2-years due to the price of oil alone. I expect to see $5 a gallon by sometime between this summer and next summer.
But check back in 2010, Gasoline will be $6 a gallon in the summer in some or all of the USA.
You'll prove us all wrong and get to join you're pal George Soros at the country club.
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
This is a sure-fire way to make a lot of money, risk-free!
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire
Are you so cute and took a real brain to say that instead of reading the documented evidence from the dept of energy.
and the link you posted to back up your argument was to a group who's sole purpose is to shut down anything and everything industrial in this country.
I stand by my suggestion. If you are SO convinced that you are correct, put your money where your mouth is. You'll prove us all wrong and become rich enough that you won't care what you're paying.
But I doubt you really trust your own analysis that well.
But really, WHY are you so opposed to bringing new production online even if you don't think it will solve the whole problem?
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
This thread is getting silly.
The EIA in March 2004 (Sorry for my Mistake not May 2006) that it will take:
1. Several years to sell the lease 2-3 minimum.
2. It take about 5+ years to get production going
3. About 20 years to get high production.
This data is no secret, it has been played out many times before with Gas and Oil drilling off our southern and western coasts.
You all can believe AChance silly assertion that if ANWR drilling were approved today, we would have 1 Million BPD in 2009 or 2010.
Anyone who belive's that is an ignorant fool and I am not wasting my time on this stupid thread anymore. Drink your cool-aide and go back to sleep or just turn on Rush.
The FACT is that same argument has been used to prevent new drilling for the past 20 years. ALL of those oil fields would be online and at full production by now if they had been allowed to be pursued.
But again, WHY are you so opposed to new production even if you don't think it's enough?
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Some of us don't rely on the crap we read in the media and on the Net, we live and work in the oil industry or in my case in a government that is one of the World's major natural resource owners and producers. Please note my words in the OP, you can read them, can't you? The enabling legislation can and must preclude most, if not all, litigation or the Greenies, aided and abetted by fools like you, will tie up both the leases and field development for the kinds of time periods set out in those studies. Every lease will require "public" comment. Every lease sold will be subject to a suit alleging some or another factor was not properly considered. Once you fight your way through that morass, assuming you can afford to, then every permit for every well, feeder line, pumpstation, power pole, whatever, will be subject to the same comment periods, harassing lawsuits, judge shopping, etc. For any development of anything in Alaska, the Greenies can always count a a three judge panel of the 9th Soviet to side with them, so each and every lawsuit has to go to the USSC, often to the Congress where the Democrats, Greenies, and other fellow travelers get yet another bite of the apple.
Now, I really don't know why I bother with yet another mind-numbed lefty robot, but it did give me something to do as I drank my morning coffee. Now I think I'll go burn a bunch of gas in my boat. Fish Beware!
In Vino Veritas
Most of the delay in building anything is the litigation at the front end of the permitting process!
Enjoy the fishing!
and you punked out.
You cited second hand evidence. Achance cited primary evidence.
Instead of saying that his evidence was BS, maybe you should have tried a little harder before calling everyone names.
You have zero trust on this board while Achance is a long-trused member of the community.
Do you trust your friends more? Or do you trust the idiot screaming "Look at me! The rest of you are too stupid to understand this!"?
Now also found at The Minority Report
Why aren't new refineries being built?
________________________________________
http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/05/news/economy/refining_investments/index....
"Money to be made
The refinery shortage, cited by experts as a main culprit behind the recent record high gasoline prices of over $3 a gallon, has been a windfall for the oil industry.
Exxon Mobil (Charts, Fortune 500) made nearly $2 billion profit in worldwide "downstream operations," which include refining, in the first three months of 2007 alone.
The difference between what refiners pay for a barrel of oil and how much they can sell the products for, known in the industry as "crack spreads," has tripled in the last 12 months, according to Antoine Halff, head of energy research at Fimat in New York.
"Refinery profits have really been ballooning over the last few years," said Halff.
The cash bonanza has generated some interest.
"I get calls from everyone in the universe," said Peter Beutel, an oil analyst at the consulting firm Cameron Hanover.
But he said so far he hasn't heard of anyone building a new refinery.
A call to the Environmental Protection Agency, which is involved in the permitting process for new refineries and refinery expansions, didn't turn up any evidence of a new refinery permit. A spokesman there said refinery expansions are more likely, although the agency was still searching its database at the time of this article.
Louisiana, a state long friendly to oil and gas interests, is actively seeking a new refinery.
Marathon Oil (Charts, Fortune 500) has built a $3.2 billion refinery expansion, Valero (Charts, Fortune 500) has a $1 billion expansion, and the state is in talks with the Kuwait national oil company for a massive new 500,000-barrel-a-day facility, said Michael Olivier, secretary of Louisiana Economic Development.
But even in Louisiana, where Olivier said the Marathon expansion permit was approved in less than a year, no completely new refinery has been built nor are there solid plans for one."
It'll take 30+ years After reaching peak production for a refinery in the USA to start making any profit because of the lawsuits.
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
the Polar Bear as a threatened species. This notwithstanding the FACT that the population is the healthiest recorded. That one damned picture sure was powerful, and once again the GWB Administration proves that it simply doesn't have the guts to stand up to the Left on any issue but Iraq, and often barely that. Now you can add ten or twenty years of litigation to any oil development in Alaska even on State lands.
In Vino Veritas
That's what the a-hels wanted so they can block any activity anywhere that theoretically contributes to GW.
I think some attorneys will be hashing this out.
There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. - Frank Zappa
I think what FWGuy meant when he said he was in the oil industry is that he mans the pump at you local gas station...Hey FW, could you check the tires and get me a hotdog while you're at it...thanks...you might just get a tip.
"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!
... but there is an element of truth in what he says. Not the part about achance not knowing his a$$ from first base, though.
The truth is there are few technical reasons why, if it were made a national priority, ANWR couldn't be up & running in a relatively short period of time. Hell, the highway was built over the summer in the middle of WWII.
But as currently pursued by the Feds, oil field development takes a while. The government is not an oil company. There would be a long notice period and an exhaustive environmental impact study, just to offer leases for sale. Affected parties would have time to comment on the notice in the CFR, and that would involve state & local governments, and indigenous peoples I suppose.
Bids would be offered at a lease sale, after which the government would take weeks/months to decide if consideration was sufficient.
Then the winning bidder would have to file a plan of exploration with whichever regulatory body oversees this activity. There would be another EIS.
A prudent operator would probably acquire and process a new seismic survey, which would take a summer. This would be used to efficiently plan the drilling & development so as to minimize impact and optimize the number of wells.
The first well would be drilled and evaluated, and based on its results the plan of development would be prepared and submitted, probably along with another EIS (for the production facility, roads, pipeline, etc.) Parameters from the drill well would be cranked into a reservoir simulator to try to optimally place the wells.
Then drilling and development would take quite a bit of time, especially since the objective is to minimize the footprint. And you would need to construct a rather large production facility in a hostile environment (= mad caribous).
Anyway, the kid is not totally off base in timing. He is off base on whether it would have an impact, which anything north of 500,000 bbls/day would be noticeable (that's 10% of what the entire country makes now).
I guessing "balls out" it could be done (first production) in a 5-7 year time frame under the current general leasing and permitting framework (and a bias to "get her done" as the kids say), without totally blowing off environmental and other regulatory concerns. And my caveat is that what I know about the permitting & leasing framework is based on the feds in the Gulf of Mexico.
I'm your only friend here, FWGuy. If you're still around, I suggest you go make nice to achance.
There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. - Frank Zappa
out of ANWR will take far longer than the purely operational aspects.
I just disagreed with the snootiness and underlying logic of the guy.
We need X barrels of oil each day.
ANWR will not deliver X barrels
So we me might as well forget about ANWR
No single source of oil is going to solve the problem. If we look and wait for the "silver bullet oilfield" capable of solving all of our needs in a single field, we will never add any capacity ever again.
Very static non-dynamic thinking.
We can drill now in a cost effective manner in certain places that were impossible merely 10 years ago. The fallacy in an "oil peak" analysis is that technology and economics can open new possibilities.
For example, shale in Canada makes sense with modern technology and current oil prices.
Canadian shale made NO sense in the 90s
Instead of addressing these points, the guy just kept spouting of insults about analytical brainpower while making more grammatical mistakes than a prudent high school student.
from Achance's original post.
"...refusing to take an action that would put 1 MM/bbl./dy. into the US supply in a year or two if the enabling legislation also limited the litigation."
(my emphasis)If the legislation were to be enacted to block all the litigious silliness Achance's estimates are VERY realistic!!
it would take Congressional authorization that essentially said, "this is it" to the Greenies and the Natives, though the Native issues should be minimal because of ANCSA. There have been test wells and some mapping, so it isn't terra incognito to either the State or the producers. One thing; here you do the seismic work in winter on ice roads and ice platforms so you don't damage the precious tundra.
In Vino Veritas
...technical evaluation is already done. If there have been test wells drilled, isn't the area "despoiled" already? And how much detailed seismic has been shot?
Can you point me to a source?
There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. - Frank Zappa
Since I'm now more or less retired, my usually reliable, highly places sources with the State aren't always readily available to me, so I'll have to work at it a bit. I do know that some has been done and also a good bit on State land adjoining ANWR. There's been a dull undercurrent here about the implications of drilling from State land into the ANWR reservoir and as far as I can tell, there's really no recourse for the Fed. That's why the Greenies suddenly got so interested in the Polar Bear, so they could use the Endangered Species Act to forestall drilling on State land.
In Vino Veritas
gain for crude since 1977. http://www.asburyresearch.blogspot.com/
Lets hope the world reads the blog so that they relent on driving up the price. LOL. And the Senate passed up drilling in ANWR again. Time to get a Honda scooter.
wuddly polar bear that the libs are using as the victim de jour is defeating us now. Never mind the fact that the polar bear population is 5 times bigger than it was in the 70s. Never mind the fact that there is NO @#$% PROOF of global warming. No, our COPEC Congress sees fit to tie our great oil companies' hands again by voting to allow said cuddly, wuddly bears protected status to protect them from the dire effects (yawn) of global warming. I hope these @#$% reap the whirlwind, but they won't unless our Rs grow a pair of huevos. I'm losing faith in this ever happening.
Tim Schieferecke
and probably used $50 worth of $4.24/gal. gas. It was just too miserable out there to make it worth it to keep trying. The temp is in the mid-40s, the wind is blowing 20 kts. or so, and it is snowing a few hundred feet up the mountains - in mid-May fer Christ's sakes! I hope the damned polar bears are happy with all of this year's new ice. I'd like to put some Greenies and Congresscritter out on that ice!
In Vino Veritas
at Elmendorf AFB a few years back. Didn't get to see much but what I saw was spectacular. Just driving along the highway looking across Turnagain Arm is jaw droppingly beautiful!
living in ANC. Lived in JNU since '84. If you think Turnagain Arm is beautiful, you should try Southeast. Between the Pipeline, working for the BIA, and working for the State, I've literally been from Ketchikan to Barrow, from the Bering Sea to the Canadian border, and most places in between. Way into seven figures on my Alaska Airlines account, 90+% within the State. Ain't nothing like it in the World!
In Vino Veritas
if we get a personal use season ever again. Only had ten days last year and they're talking no season at all this year. Wouldn't want us mere mortals to interfere with the Deadliest Catch cast's making their fortunes.
In Vino Veritas
It's last year's from the freezer but still better than anything you can buy. Two, four at the most, hours from swimming in the Pacific to my smoker. My wife does one Helluva dry brine smoke.
In Vino Veritas
Would you give a pass on the King and serve up some Snow crab instead?
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
Also gearing up for shrimp. Haven't really done shrimp before and people would give you their virgin daughter before they'd tell you where they get them. But, I got a couple of real good finders and I can see them on the bottom if I work at it, so, no king crab gotta settle for dungees and shrimp.
In Vino Veritas
bears so they could live in communion with their new found brethren. That would be good.
Tim Schieferecke
So those of us on the receiving end of this oil price increase are enjoying the scenery. It gives one a sense of how OPEC members feel as they buy our companies,fund terrorists or perhaps play squash.
I love the hypocrisy in counter intutive arguments against supply and sloppy mathematical calculations regarding how long ANWR supply will last which fail to realize factors such as pumping capacity. Let's also forget about the 500,000 plus jobs it will create, billions in additional Federal revenue (without any tax increases) and fact that many private predictions from oil companies with a vested interest that yield is greatly underestimated. Seems to me there are a fairly good number of arguments in favor of drilling, as opposed to oil is evil and drilling on less than 2,000 acres is an environmental disaster.No matter, my checks keep coming.
Sheesh, I can hear the Russians laughing from their platforms on the other side.
"Nec Aspera Terrent"
bene ambula et redambula
Contributor to The Minority Report
I and others in my State have made rational arguments for opening ANWR and NPRA for nigh on to forty years now, if for no other reason than for follow on production to Prudhoe Bay to offset its declining production. It has already lasted far longer and produced far more than even the most optimistic estimates in the '60s and '70s. It has all fallen on deaf ears. When Alaska and North Sea oil broke the OPEC price in the '80s, America and The West launched on a two decade boom while my State languished, the Lower 48 bitched about federal spending here - notwithstanding the fact that the Fed owns half of the landmass here, and I'm simply tired of it all. We were the good citizens in the '80s. This time if I have my way we really will be the Blue-eyed Arabs the Lower 48 accused us of being and I frankly don't give a damn if every Escalade in the US becomes a lawn ornament.
In Vino Veritas
I couldn't agree more......
Spot on the money, that's what America is all about.
Thank you for saying so well.
Afuel
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
When you get acclimated to 10 degree temperatures 40 degrees is a heat wave!!!!!
no matter what you're acclimated to! Ran out about 15 miles to a favorite spot; three-four foot wind chop, just rougher 'n Hell. No strikes, no fish on the finder, and within an hour the boat was like the inside of a sponge. Ceiling was so low and rain so thick I had the nav lights and radar on. Mind you, this is an enclosed boat with an oil-fired forced air heater. No fun, back home to spend quality time with you guys.
In Vino Veritas
the comfort level!!! We have had instances of weather like that here in Maine. Amazing since we're so well known for our heat waves!!!!
Arizonans with heat stroke that at least it wasn't humid!
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
FW
Please explain to us the ignorant uneducated masses what electric power sources have to do with oil?
Your quote:
I believe simply in Conservative Economics and the facts are Demand has out Stripped Supply and oil is going to continue to rise in value and our only true hope for the long term is to swtich to alternative form of energy use like:
1. Nuclear.
2. Wind
3. Solar
This isn't the first time it's been pointed out to you. It's right
there
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
V
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
I am so fortunate to have a job where I can work from home. I have not driven any where since Sunday and that was just to go to the grocery store. I am doing this for personal reasons-to save money. My husband is in med school and we cannot afford these prices. I have started riding my bike (very hard thing to do since I make fun of biker riders) I wish I could say I was making a statement, but since a) one person does not make a really great statement and b) I am unfortunately doing exactly what the liberal enviro-nuts want me to do. Someone mentioned this earlier...libs and much of Congress is willing to allow fuel prices to break its people to get rid of big oil, because they are th big bad guys.
This is BEYOND ridiculous. I don't give a flying CRAP if oil won't be ready for 10 years. Let's undo Clinton's mistake NOW and start drilling the he!! out of ANWR. If middle east countries saw us drilling our own oil, prices would drop immediately they depend on our cash and can't afford to loose our dependence.
MelZ
going to PT with their uniforms in their backpack around $3.40/gallon, I knew the shark had been jumped. Its about 6-8 miles minimum from here.
I read through the gsmotors site and found out that they are a distributor, to anyone's door, for Chinese made scooters, and they are cheaper than the other name brands. I'm PCSing to another post, I took extra leave so that I would have half a month's respite from the fuel prices and hope that the change will net extra disposable income, since there hasn't been any lately.
Its unfortunate, Congress runs over the President over the SPR and no one has made refining standards uniform like the post Katrina debacle.
Every news item about crude oil prices rising includes a line about the oil being used as a hedge against inflation and the weak US dollar.
Fortunately serveral Fed presidents from various regions are talking about raising the target rate to combat inflation, so once an increase occurs we should see more bearable prices by the end of the year.
Too bad I stopped doing that over the last 3 years...
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
There are two problems when it comes to energy, short term and long term.
Short term it's too high, long term it's going higher as China and India compete for known sources of oil in the world.
The question I'd ask about a long term vision for the Republican brand, is what to do about the long term problem of energy needs, 10, 20 50 years from now.
If the answer is dig more, open more land, well that's one answer but it does not really answer a question for the future of this country and are we going to remain a petroleum based economy?
It's probably not a popular thing to say, but I'm all for a government run program on the scale of the Apollo program to develop and deploy new sources of energy and transportation to power this country in the far future. The Donk's can't or won't do it, but would a bold Republican think this would be a good idea for the future?
______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
will be the fuel of commerce for many more decades worldwide.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
In New Mexico they already knew what they wanted to do: split the atom and make it go boom. They just had to figure out how to do it, and of course that meant extracting the right kind of Uranium, and then also making Plutonium.
With alternative fuels, we don't know what we want, it hasn't even been conceived of yet. so it's not an engineering problem that we can just throw people at. We need ideas, and you can't pay for inspiration.
HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
Neil
Sure, but basic research, the break through to develop the concept is something government can do well. Full commercialization, maybe that's industry.
I also specifically avoided a Manhattan Project reference and went for an Apollo one. Kennedy set a bold goal, funded it and got out of the way. I suppose I am advocating for that bold goal, backed by the power of the federal purse to create the critical break-through, then perhaps the leadership for deployment.
Maybe that's turning your back on the free market, but I've never been a complete believer in that as the only answer.
______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
Nobody has found a solution that is economical, safe (natural gas for use in cars presents safety issues for example), and capable of being mass produced.
A lot of VC money is going to this area. Don't see government spending being particular helpful.
whether its win wars so that Hideo Nomo pitches for the Dodgers, build a fence to make good neighbors or design an engine so Americans can still have their independent horse.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
project beat the government human genome project even though the government project started more than a year before the private project
Government research dollars get flushed down the toilet like other government projects.
When you say split the atom or put man on the moon, success is in doing it. Cost and efficiency are irrelevant to the goal.
We are not merely looking for an alternative fuel source. We have plenty of those already. Rather, we are looking for an economical fuel source that can be scaled up to serve the entire planet (or at least the US).
The person(s) who solve this problem will become richer than God, so I think there is already plenty of effort at figuring something out.
The laws of physics and economics will not bend to our whims, hopes, or desparation.
Maybe you have a point, but I am a believer in government having some role in those grand break-through.
We communicate now over one of those grand break-through, son of DARA NET, now called the Internet's.
The question is would the Internet have become what it has without DARA, probably yes, but probably would have taken a lot longer.
I suppose this is one of those what is a conservative position, is it free markets and only free markets, or government guiding to some end state goal.
______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
world-wide presence. Similarly, space exploration is out of reach for most of us.
In contrast, playing around with alternative fuel sources is something you could do our of your garage. I know people (I am a patent lawyer) who play around with building engines that run on vegetable oil, etc.
It doesn't require a lot of capital. Its something individuals can do and in fact do play around with.
In that context, government getting involved is just as likely to lead people astray than towards the answer.
Corn-based ethanol comes to mind. Sugar-based ethanol has a higher BTU content, but the government has tarrifs aainst Brazilian sugar cane.
Genetically engineering sugar cane might be a viable solution, but not if we can't import the stuff.
HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
The problem now is that Americans ARE GOING TO SUFFER A GREAT DECLINE IN LIVING STANDARDS AND LIFESTYLE IN THE SHORT TERM PERIOD. We will be tested. This 30 year in the making problem can't be solved quickly. The only possible way I see for us to maintain or re-coup or standard of living relatively quickly is with new technology. I'm with you on the free market and incentives, but the market hasn't been free for 30 years.
I'm with SteveLA.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
and you will do more good than having some government employees try to play favorites as to what can work.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
JS
That's one view for sure, Government can do no good, can have no positive outcome.
I work with government employees, and some days agree with you....LOL.
______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
SteveLA, I am bursting with pride for you tonight!
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
drill our own d*mn oil.
Sheesh. This isn't cosmic science or anything.
Drill. Pump. Refine.
It's there, we just have to do it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just a typical, small town, white girl...
Drilling and digging it up will last only so long, after that is done, what's next?
______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
Lots of money and economic stimulation there. Just ask Al Gore: he's the expert on converting money into plant food.
Just until private enterprise comes up with something better.
They've been working on it for a long time. It's how we Got oil in the first place. It's how we'll get the next big thing.
In the meantime, we have more oil than anyone else in the world. We have more coal than Everyone else in the world. We have more natural gas than everyone else in the world. We have the oil shale.
Our supplies will last plenty long enough to find a replacement energy source. Especially if we switch most of our power production over to nuclear.
"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me
The eschewers of projects ala big apple answer the question posed in the negative. They may disagree with that, but one thing is a fact:
they spent all night discussing it
I'm getting a little verklempt.
Let me give you a topic.
gator is neither big nor 5
discuss
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
I just saw on the news that Alaska has become first state to hit $4 a gal gas and I have to ask why Alaska? Seriously, I would think Alaska has cheapest gas in the nation this shocks me.
Can someone tell me why gas is so expensive in Alaska?
dld1717
One of the reasons gas prices are high in Alaska, and everywhere else, is there are NO refineries in AK to refine the crude into product. It has to be shipped via tankers to west coast refiners, then reshipped as finished product back to AK, via tanker, trucks and pipelines as well as the rest of the country. We haven't built any new refining capacity in almost 40 years.
That brings up another question ? Instead of transporting oil on the high seas, using tankers, why don't we pipe like we do in AK from Prudhoe Bay down to Valdez ?
When we talk about drilling in US we forget about the MBPD of oil already to go in wells that were capped off in the 70's and 80's CA, TX, OK and other states.
Using natural gas for cars is a proven technology (20+ years old) that is super safe but requires allot of infrastructure for it to be used. If everyone on the block had home Nat gas compressor/refill stations the nat gas feeder system couldn't handle the volume.
Afuel
HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
There are refineries in Alaska at North Pole and Nikiski which provide for domestic needs in the Railbelt area from FAI - ANC east to the Canadian Border. About half the North Pole production goes to jet fuel; ANC is the largest or nearly the largest air cargo port in the World, depending on the year and the measure. Coastal and Bush Alaska do use oil refined on the West Coast and transhipped to Alaska - at enormous cost on Jones Act tankers and barges. Also, much of Bush/Arctic Alaska has to air freight oil in at least part of the year.
We've been "good citizens" and not used our 12.5% of Prudhoe Bay oil to provide cheap domestic oil; you guys hate us enough as it is so we share your pain. Fundamentally, we could take our royalty oil and sell it to ourselves for any price we chose. I'd kinda like to return to the days of $0.29.9/gal., but it would probably really piss off our "friends" in the Lower 48. After all, we might use it to drive over a bridge to nowhere.
BTW, afuel, we got lots of NG laying around doing nothing; got $50 billion or so to bring it to market?
In Vino Veritas
I guess we could pipe it around for motor fuel. That's something I don't hear talked about at all anymore. In late 80's and early nineties I was doing R&D using NG for cars and converted diesel style engines to run on NG and we were very successful with it as were lots of others. Great power, high octane, BTU's. State of California and some cities use NG but not enough to make a difference.
Note: I saw a post about T. Boone Pickens long on oil but at the same time he involved with largest windmill investment in history at present time.
Another thing I'm not hearing is ethanol or methanol only provide about 60% of BTU's that gasoline does, so our wonderful ethanol vehicles will get less miles per gallon compared to gasoline.
Thanks for info on AK & Canadien refining.
Afuel
Alaska has such a limited amount of time for their tourist season, so they up the anty to capitalize on it.
Okay, maybe I am exaggerating a little. But seriously, have you ever been to Alaska in the summer? Expensive stuff. But good, oh so good.
Personally, I'd jack up the prices too. Keeps out the rif-raf, don't ya know.
Achance probably has better answer. I'm really just shooting off my mouth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just a typical, small town, white girl...
The mass tourism is a good business, but it really doesn't generate wealth. Most of the tourists had to scrimp to pay for the trip and aren't really going to spend much. You get tee shirts, fishing/sightseeing trips, and a little money in the bars and restaurants. I'm probably going into that game next year by chartering my boat for sightseeing/whalewatching. I'll make pretty good money and more importantly get some pretty good tax deductions, but anybody who works for me is going to do it for pretty close to the minimum wage and the privilege of standing in my radiated glory.
In Vino Veritas
Can't disagree with any of your points.
I was amazed at the "subsistence" living that goes on in Alaska. My friend in Eagle River was telling me story after story of folks catching the fish to store for the year. She has gotten to know many locals from school and was amazed how little some lived on throughout the year.
Personally, I hope Alaska does stay expensive. It truly is beautiful and I'd like to see it stay as unspoiled as possible.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just a typical, small town, white girl...
I suppose by Lower 48 standards even I, a true disciple of bourgeois decadence, engage in some level of "subsistence." My freezer is usually full of fish and crab. It would be cheaper if we bought it at the grocery store, but we like the process of getting it.
As to the "unspoiled," with modern technoly you really can develop resources while leaving the land relatively unspoiled.
In Vino Veritas
The American people understand, for the most part, supply & demand. This could be a winning type issue for Republicans if the leadership would just grab onto it. I know they're down right now, however this is a golden opportunity to push an issue that would help us in an easy to understand fashion.
And so do those idiots in Congress who refuse to let us drill our own d*mn oil.
Makes me want to scream!
Meanwhile, I thank God everyday that I am entitled to fuel here on base. We have the cheapest gas in USAFE at $3.78 for regular unleaded.
Price on a LITER of petro here in Deutschland (off base)ranges from 1.35-1.45 EURO. So, at about 4 liters per gallon, that is about 6.00 Euro a gallon which in dollars would equal about $9.50 a gallon.
We will be heading to Normandy in a couple of weeks. I can hardly wait to pay for gas in France. NOT!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just a typical, small town, white girl...