Redstate

Huckabee is unacceptable for President. And will never be elected. He lost his chances when he made religion an issue in Iowa. Mormons will never vote for that bigot.

That is just patently absurd. Huckabee is no bigot. He asked a valid question about Romney's LDS faith. When he realized how offensive it was, he profoundly apologized and never again raised the issue of Romney's religion. I say this as an active Mormon myself.

This whole argument that Huckabee "made religion an issue in Iowa" is phony and reflects a secularist bias. The press and the left made religion an issue long before anyone knew who Huckabee was. There were many questions raised about Romney because of his Mormon faith long before Huckabee said a word about the issue.

Religion has frequently been an issue in political campaigns. There's nothing wrong with that. We are still by and large a religious people. Our nation was founded by men who believed in God and who said that religion and morality were vital for our political prosperity. Just read George Washington's farewell address to the nation. I reject this secularist notion that no candidate should ever discuss God and biblical values in a campaign.

Al Gore and Joe Lieberman spent tons of time advertising the fact that they believed in God and saying that they encouraged and applauded religious belief.

If you want a godless society, move to Cuba or China.

As for Huckabee being "unacceptable" for President, during Huckabee's tenure as governor, the state of Arkansas experienced significant economic growth, crime went down, the school system was revamped and improved, the highway system was repaired and went from one of the worst to one of the best, the income tax was cut, property taxes were cut, tax deductions for singles and families were doubled, people moved into the state in large numbers, overall state spending grew at the very modest rate of only 4.9% AFI in spite of the extra money that was raised and spent on roads and parks and schools, the overall tax burden increased only slightly, the budget was balanced, and at the end of his tenure there was a surplus in the state budget--and Huckabee did these things in a heavily Democratic state and while dealing with a Democrat-dominated legislature. If he did for the U.S. what he did for Arkansas, we'd be in great shape.

Mike Griffith
Let Freedom Ring website
http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/id47.htm

Mormons may control Utah and have influence in some states but to proclaim that we control the Republican chances for election is absurd.

Knock it off with that kind of crap. You're giving us a bad name.

Really? Which ones?

They certainly exert some influence in UT, but I'm unaware of any State that they might "control". Certainly not here in AZ where our current Democratic Governor beat a conservative Mormon Republican quite handily.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

sort of in the sense that Chistians control the US anyway. I mean they seem to controll the party, I don't see any other good reason for Mitt getting 95% in Utah. Other than that you're right though.

I'm sure you mean something by that statement that is going over my balding head. From anybody else's keyboard, I'd say that was a stupid statement, but you generally don't do stupid. (You're wrong a lot, but what the heck :>))
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

Considering that 80% of the country claims christianity and its questionable rather someone who doesn't claim Christianity could make it to the Whitehouse. But I didn't mean the church controlls the nation or that deeply genuine Christians are calling all the shots in the nation, so I suppose my statement might have been a bit confusing.
In America a high percentage claims Christianity and those who get elected claim christianity also ( probably as much due the fact that the elected come from the electors, as from the fact that many Christians would be hesitant to vote non Christian), so in Utah there's an extremely high percentage of Mormons and all the elected officials seem to be Mormon.

1. If "Christians" controlled the US, abortions would be a thing of the past.

2. If "Mormons" controlled the state of Utah, alcohol would be banned, not sold at state stores.

PC, I realize I'm reaching for both of these, and I understand your larger point, but these two (especially #2) tickle my fancy when I think about "control". :>)
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

is okay or at least should be legal. But then that makes the point that there's not anything an politics that Christians agree, which makes it impossible for them as a group to control anything - except for the for making sure that a a self claimed Christian be in control of the Whitehouse, and that's debatable. So on this I guess I'll have to concede your pretty much right.
On Utah one would think they would be interested in prohibition, but I suppose we failed to dismally with that during the prohibition that even they don't want to try it. Also I think Mormons may have a libertarian streak, though I could be wrong about that.

would be no different, and possibly worse, than McCain's.
I am wondering how, if one is a sincere, well informed strong conservative, it seems so easy to be manipulated into thinking that either Romney or Huckabee are now hard core conservative?

You are misinformed, or uninformed, about Huckabee's record. He is certainly more conservative than McCain. Huckabee opposed McCain-Feingold, opposed McCain-Kennedy, is stronger on the 2nd Amendment, stronger on abortion and traditional marriage, much better informed on the economy, etc., etc. See:

http://www.redstate.com/blogs/mike_griffith/2008/feb/07/rally_around_huc...

Mike Griffith
Let Freedom Ring website
http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/id47.htm

How can you believe that McCain is more conservative than Huckabee? You need to do some homework on their positions and records. For starters, see the reply I just posted above yours. See also:

http://www.redstate.com/blogs/mike_griffith/2008/feb/07/rally_around_huc...

Mike Griffith
Let Freedom Ring website
http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/id47.htm

On every issue save 2nd amendment and ESCR he's more conservative.

BTW, I've already seen your blog. No sale. Huckabee is a pro-life, pro-gun populist, not a conservative. Fiscal and Military Conservatives didn't vote for him, that's why he's third in delegates.

FDT's Principles

FDT's Principles

but you've been called worse by more intelligent posters. Just not on this particluar blog.

Excellent blog BTW.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

FDT's Principles

You did!

Mike Huckabee is not a conservative. And the fact that he's managed to purloin some pdfs to add to his website doesn't make him one. I get a real hoot out of his supporters who rail at Mitt Romney (who was a distant third on my list) for being a flipper. At least Romney had the good sense to flip his positions BEFORE he entered the Presidential race. Huck flipped his AFTER he got in.

He is not by any means a Fiscal Conservative. Sure, he cut some taxes in Arkansas, but he left the good folks of his state with a tax bill that was significantly higher than when he came into office. Your whining about roads and schools don't change the fact that he obviously didn't bother to look anywhere but the taxpayer's pockets for those fixes. And then there's the fact that government grew faster than the rate of inflation under Huck. And that's after a bazillion years of Democratic Governors, including Slick Willie. Nice stain on your shirt, Belisarius.

Let's look at his current tax proposals. He signed the No New Tax Pledge. After he started taking heat on his record. He signed up for FairTax. Of course the fact that he had no organization in place and no money to build one and the FairTax folks had a built in organization for him could have had something to do with his new found hatred for the IRS. There's no record of him ever having a conversation with the FT folks or Grover Norquest before his new found conversion. Oops, another nasty orange stain on your nice white shirt.

Oh, BTW, during Rudy's term as Mayor of NYC, both the tax rate went down and the welfare program that was strangling NYC went virtually away.

Foreign policy. He gets the opportunity to write a feature article for Human Events on the subject. It's so bad and panned by just about everybody who read it that he came out and said that staffers wrote parts of it. Gee, think he'll let staffers write his policies for Iran and not bother to review them? Hopefully, by now he's figured out where Afghanistan is. And his boneheaded shots at GWB's foreign policy that were right out of a Clinton or Obama speech were simply over the top. Oh, but he's got FP advisors. He named two. One is a columnist for the NYT. Neither had ever spoken to him on the subject. Ohhhh, more orange on the shirt.

Military policy. He found some retired generals with an ax to grind and wasn't smart enough to know it.

Immigration policy. He went from being slightly to the left of Ted Kennedy - he helped the Mexican Government set up shop so they could hand out Consular cards, among other things - to just to the right of Tom Tancredo. How did he do it? Well, somebody was surfing the web and found the Center for Immigration Reform, run by Mark Krikorian. They printed his policy papers and Huck adopted them. There's no record he's ever had a single discussion with Krikorian. Hey, nice oranged shirt.

Then there's his ethics. Frankly, nobody will ever be able to explain to me why it took a lawsuit to convince him that $70,000 worth of furniture in the Governor's Mansion wasn't his. His best explanation is "a thousand pardons", pun intended. At least some of them give the appearance of justice for sale in Arkansas. Oh, and there's the fact that he stood before national TV cameras on at least five occasions and flat out lied about the fuel tax issue. He insisted he had nothing to do with it, the people voted it in. Bzzzzzt. The people voted in a bond issue to fix the roads and the payments on the bond were going to be made with the increased fuel taxes that had already passed the Legislature and been signed into law by Huck. His administration - and he personally - lobbied hard for the passage of the fuel tax increase and he personally "negotiated" with the truckers lobby on the issue. The guy makes Bill Clinton look truthful.

Energy independence by 2016. Sure. First of all he doesn't define what he means by energy independence. Then he doesn't address just how he's planning on getting there. Gonna drill in ANWR and offshore? Sure. Oops, you spilled oil on your KoolAid.

Then there's his prolife/profamily bona fides. He is consistently both. The problem, however, is the tactics he proposes - HLA & FMA. First of all, he's never defined which version of the HLA he supports and since all but one of them will do nothing more than SCOTUS overturning Roe it's questionable whether that's a meaningful stance. He also ignores the facts that neither have any hope of getting the requisite 2/3 in the House or the Senate. And then there's that pesky requirement for 3/4 of the State Legislatures to pass it. Will NEVER happen. What WILL happen, were he to try this foolishness, is that the opposition would mobilize and set the Right To Life movement back to 1973. Just look at what happened when the far left tried to pass the ERA. It was the death of a thousand cuts and much of the prolife/profamily organization came from the ERA fight. HLA & FMA are big time losers, not just in and of themselves, but for the movements they purport to represent. Mike Huckabee and his acolytes are simply too far removed from reality to ever figure that out. They stand on "principle", even when the stand will take down the movements they say they support.

Oh, BTW, during Huck's term as Governor the absolute number of abortions performed in Arkansas went up as did the abortion rate. During Rudy's term as Mayor of NYC (which has a larger and more liberal population that Arkansas), the absolute number of abortions and the abortion rate both went down.

Governor Huckabee is nothing more than an empty suit who is really good with one liners. He would be a disaster in any national office, and is very much like Jimmy Carter at this point in the campaign (except Carter was ahead).
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

"Don't spill you KoolAid. Oops....
You did!"

Uhhh,....Actually, I don't drink KoolAid. Haven't since age 12. You're dreaming again, just like Club for Growth and Cato's image (or shall I say 'mirage'? Yes, I can.)of Gov. Huckabee's record. I'll be quick.

1. The tax increase on diesel fuel was on interstate trucking traffic only. It was done to meet a situation of a budget shortfall and disastrous roads in Arkansas. The alternative, since they were dealing with court orders on balanced budgets with no further room for budget cuts (which had already been done by 11-18%), was to simply hike the general sales tax. Conservative tax theory states that, when necessary, as here, strictly-targeted taxes, such as user fees, etc., are preferable to general taxes.

2. The general sales tax increase was, again, in response to a court order to raise revenues to cover a budget shortfall. The Governor was not allowed to erase the shortfall by more budget cuts. And it was only a 7/8 of a cent rise, which at 6% is still much lower than most states.

3. The cigarette increase was of the same kind, to make up for the budget shortfall, was targeted for state Medicaid programs, and to prevent a loss of 3/1 ratio federal funding. Know any governors who would turn down tens of millions of dollars of federal matching funds for indigent health care? The alternative? Go back to the people for fresh looting and explain why his conservative principles have now lost federal money and caused him to either demand more money in general taxes or close down much of the state Medicaid program, which would probably violate federal law/guidelines, triggering a rush of lawsuits by your friends and mine---that's right---Democrat trial lawyers!

4. On the Mexican consulates--Sorry, no KoolAid again, except the green stuff that your downing. They were one of over 40 countries that Gov. Huckabee visited and set up trade missions or consulates in order to further business relationships with Arkansas business and ensure LEGAL activities representing their foreign nationals in the state. Remember he had a firm called Wal-Mart that has given a major second chance for prosperity for the state. There is no truth to the notion that the Governor personally encouraged the Mexican governmsnt in issuing Matricula Consular cards to anyone, much less to illegals.

5. On changes in position at the onset to a campaign, that is much more typical of people who are having to conform earlier-held positions to the new realities of seeking the Presidency. Ronald Reagan advocated broad tax increases to end the large budget deficit in 1976. It was not until a conversation with Jack Kemp and Arthur Laffer that Reagan chose to champion the broad tax cuts he achieved.

6. Oh, and Mitt Romney raised taxes by $721 million in just 4 years, as opposed to Huckabee's record over 11 years. Rudy Giuliani had increased taxes as mayor as well in New York.

7. On anything ethical? On all issues, including the $70,000 furniture they were all dismissed in court as nonsensical and void of merit, the work of Mike's enemies, who are part of the Bill Clinton machine. Once again, a little problem with hallucinatory green ooze, hmmm?

8. On foreign policy: I admit, that was Mike's weakness, initially. However, on closer examination, Gov. Huckabee explained in a later debate in New Hampshire that he was really referring to the actions of Donald Rumsfeld in stubbornly refusing to listen to the counsel of battlefield commanders concerning the battle with insurgents and with his cavalier failure to provide proper battle armor for vehicles against IEDs. Furthermore, on the issue of Iran, he noted that jumping into war may not be wise when the populace already is overwhelmingly against their own leaders and strongly sympathetic to the USA (candlelight vigils in Tehran, celebrations in Gaza on 9/11).

9. On the military: He made the adjustments in that area in the most responsible way. The Governor promised, if elected, he would match Pres. Reagan's buildup of the military in the 80s to 6% of GDP, roughly doubling the amount of military spending, including large increases in land forces, the Marines, and especially in restoring Pres. Reagan's 600-ship Navy. A purpose in it? Oh yes, it's called a resurgent Russia and a dangerous China.

10. On immigration: Wanting kids who went to school in Arkansas from ages 6-18, and who, because of their age, were eligible, due to section 245i of the Immigration and Nationalization Act, to apply for legal resident status, IS a great deal different than supporting mass amnesty without exception and providing no border security, allowing mass incursions of the next 15 million illegals into the country.

Sorry, I'm drinking champagne. I'll chat more later, I imagine.

Belisarius of Jerusalem, and of Constantinople

You're a good guy, and most of us do know the manner in which you write is oftentimes facetious.

However in the interests of fostering comity here at Red State, can I ask you please to reconsider your comparisons between Huck supporters and suicide cultists? :-)

We're at that stage where we all have to learn to live with each other again, since the race is over.

Thanks!

HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

I hear these comments, especially by economic conservatives, that Gov. Huckabee is not a conservative. Then I go to his website, look at both his page on positions in this campaign and his accomplishments as Governor of Arkansas, and I scratch my head, 'Huh?'

Well, if his web site says so, it must be true.
---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman