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President Bush denies ever using cocaine to my knowledge. To my knowledge the accusation was made up by his opponents,and that's why we defended him against it.

Senator Obama, on the other hand, is our source of the claim that he used the stuff.

So I don't see the comparison or the problem.

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

No, Bush has never denied it. He has simply refused to answer the question. He was quoted at one point on the issue, saying that he didn't want any kids out there to think it was okay to do what he had done.

Nobody, save for partisan hatemongers, calls Bush a junkie, not because he hasn't admitted it, but because it is obvious that he is a different man today than he was then. Obama makes the same point, but he is considerably more up-front about it.

I think the general public doesn't much care about a candidate's past drug use, provided said transgression was far enough in the past. Both Bill Clinton and George W. Bush have proven that pretty well.

Again, the video is awesome otherwise. It really drives home the creepy cultish behavior of the Obama campaign and its supporters, coke references notwithstanding. The farther this spreads, the better.

I must have missed him being on the ticket.

And yes he does deny it. Why are you bringing it up ?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

We need you to cite your source for that statement about President Bush in your second paragraph, Caiwyn.

I challenge you to prove it or retract it.

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

Second paragraph? I'm not sure what you're referring to. If you mean my first paragraph, where I say Bush was quoted as not wanting kids to use his behavior to justify their own, it's from a 1998 Newsweek interview:

As for his bachelor years--and whether he ever used illegal drugs back then--he is far more opaque. His mantralike answer is this: ""When I was young and irresponsible I was young and irresponsible.'' He vows to say no more. His experience with candor is not a happy one, he says. When he dared to admit a few years ago that he was a hard drinker--he quit cold turkey 12 years ago--the only result was more, and more detailed, press questions, which ignored the fact that he had never jeopardized his role as a responsible husband, father and breadwinner.

BUSH SAYS HE WON'T MAKE THAT same mistake again, and that baby-boomer parents should follow his example. ""The question is: have you learned from your behavior?'' he says. ""The answer is, yes. If I were you, I wouldn't tell your kids that you smoked pot unless you want 'em to smoke pot. I think it's important for leaders, and parents, not to send mixed signals. I don't want some kid saying, "Well, Governor Bush tried it'.'' It's an ingenious argument, and one that many voters might welcome in the post-Monica world. Stiffing the media--for the good of the kids--may just sell in 2000.

Believe me, I am not attacking him for this. I dislike Bush for a variety of reasons, but this is not one of them -- I think it is absolutely admirable that he turned his life around; in fact, I think it's a point in his favor. But the same point can be made of Obama.

Obama deserves all the flak we can give him for his voting record against gun rights and the born alive infant protection act. He deserves his empty rhetoric to be exposed, and his messianic campaign to have its bubble burst by the reality of the issues we're facing. But trying to subtly paint the candidate as a junkie isn't really going to fly. It didn't work against Bush in 2000 and it's not going to work today, for the same reasons.

And that he's the same as Obama, just less forthcoming.

Everybody knows that Bush was a drinker (some would say alcoholic), as he's admitted that and been very forthcoming about how he changed his life.

Please give me the exact quote you want me to cite a source on. Also, learn to read: the quote I have provided is specifically about illegal drugs, not alcohol. The implication of the quote is crystal clear to anyone with half a brain, but if you want to split hairs and weasel around the issue, feel free. I have already explained that I think Bush should be commended for turning his life around. Few people have the drive and determination to pull that off.

My point stands: history has proven that it is not an effective attack. Bill Clinton admitted to smoking pot and was praised for his honesty, even though he tried to weasel out of it with the caveat that he didn't inhale. Bush has the above quote, the implication of which is crystal clear, and the attacks against him backfired because everyone knew he was a changed man -- and besides, every voter can think of some stupid, possibly even illegal thing they did when they were young and reckless.

It will backfire when used against Obama, as well -- it will make him seem even more like he is above the petty political sniping of his opponents. Literally, the coke references play directly into his hands, making us look shallow and hypocritical, and making him seem more mature and focused. I don't want to give him any advantage. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not knocking the video. I recommended this article, for Pete's sake.

Please give me the exact quote you want me to cite a source on

Sure. The one we've all been talking about this whole time:

I think the cocaine references make it sort of hypocritical for a party that defended Bush on such charges

Jeff, you beclown yourself. Not only is that not even the post that Neil was asking for me to prove, but now you're trying to weasel your way around the issue by asking me to cite a source for my opinion rather than a particular piece of information. If you would like me to source an actual fact, aside from my opinion that this behavior is hypocritical, just let me know.

Neil, at least, seems to be satisfied, even if he disagrees, which is fine. He is right that there is a distinction between Bush's refusal to confirm and Obama's outright admission, though I personally think it's moot.

And sorry Obama as cokehead isn't going away.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

Bush's drug use, to my knowledge, has never gotten past the speculative stage.

OK, my memory failed me and I was wrong there. He didn't deny it.

However, you are stilly wrong to suggest that the situations are the same. Obama is a confessed former coke user. Bush is not.

We're not the ones who brought this up. Talk to Prophet HopeChange himself if you don't like it. He put it in his book, not us.

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

Calwyn said:

"I think the cocaine references make it sort of hypocritical for a party that defended Bush on such charges, but otherwise the video is awesome."

I think he was wrong to put it that way--no defense was necessary because Bush cut it off with his "No comment with an explanation." And Bush didn't confess to using hard drugs; he hinted that he might've smoked marijuana, but he didn't even admit that. So the situations are NOT comparable.

But then Calwyn expanded:

"My point stands: history has proven that it is not an effective attack. Bill Clinton admitted to smoking pot and was praised for his honesty"

I agree with him. It's the same kind of losing argument that calling him "Hussein" is. Accurate, but irrelevant to the people we want to convince. It didn't matter in the cases of Clinton or Bush, and it won't matter in Obama's case, either, unless he can be shown to be a habitual user, to still be using, or that he was selling or sharing as well as using.

It did fit nicely into the video and "song," though. Kinda hard to pass up, I suppose.

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.“--Jeff Cooper. From Bill Coffey's collection of military quotations

Thanks, Flagstaff, this seems a workable compromise. You and Neil are right that there is a distinction to be made between Bush's verbal dancing and Obama's outright admission. I simply think it's a moot one, but if you disagree, then that is of course your prerogative.

And yes, you are right that the coke images do sort of fit the lyrics, which is why I recommended the post regardless.

....*ever* be said, posted, or produced if it doesn't consist solely of a bill number, a vote, and legislation. It's so pathetically predictable at this point; put up *anything* about Hillobama, and here will come the snivellers, b***hing that the post isn't restricted only to an issue and a vote.

You think I'm a democrat? Are you new here?

Formerly known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."

so you're admitting its a perfect fit, no?

Insisting that Obmama is an empty suit or that his followers are cultish is not a winning strategy. He has detailed policy positions. He is smart. He is charming. He is as qualified to be President as George W Bush or Jimmy Carter or many others that have lived in the White House. American voters are smarter than most folks give them credit for being. Once they get to know Obama, they will know he has substance. If our side insists he doesn't, we will look like desperate liars. On the other hand, if we expose his proposals for what they are - proven failures, we have a good chance of winning.

Of course, if that doesn't work, we can say he is secretly a Muslim or perhaps the Anti-Christ (Glenn Beck is an idiot). That will win us the White House.

the majority of the American electorate doesn't care one bit about "policy proposals," whether they're "proven failures" or not. They care about feeling good, being taken care of, and being told they're important, cuddly, and smell really good.

Cosmetics are everything in politics today. Attacking Obama at the source of his popularity -- his "I'm the best, everybody loves me, come to me and be Saved" persona and attitude -- is what will achieve results.

Sticking to dry issues-and-legislation-only-based campaigning will just put the folks listening us to sleep, while BO continues to energize his mindless crowds with his no-substance persona and platitudes.

points.

And you're 100% entitled to that thought.

And that's why democracies do not really work - the majority will always vote their passions, not their futures. de Tocqueville wrote about this at great length. Thus the constitution as a representative democracy; thus the choatic House of Representatives even so.

Oh, and thus the chaotic Democratic primary!!

I am therefore fully in favor of maintaining the Republican winner-take-all version of delegate selection. On a broader scale, I also apply this lesson to the preservation of the Electoral College, and by that I am against those efforts to make the California electoral a proprotionate vote. Yes, it will probaly be a long time before the Republicans can add the 55 California votes to its register. But I see chaos not so far down the road if it gets proportionately allocated. One day in the not-so-distant future there WILL be a slight Republican majority, and then we will regret proportionate allocation.

If you think he seriously said that, Glenn Beck is not the idiot.

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.“--Jeff Cooper. From Bill Coffey's collection of military quotations

I'm a huge GB fan, in part because he uses humor so well.

So we agree on one thing, anyway.

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.“--Jeff Cooper. From Bill Coffey's collection of military quotations

This is almost on par with him asking Rep Ellison to prove he's not an enemy of America because he's a Muslim.

You've convinced me. You win the competition.

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.“--Jeff Cooper. From Bill Coffey's collection of military quotations

From the vid it is obvious that both Beck and Hagee are pooh-poohing the idea that Barack is the anti-Christ. And if you watched this vid and came to a different conclusion, then Glenn Beck is obviously not the idiot here.

If the rules are transparent and clear, and if the state has no author­ity to license businesses or restrict exports and imports, there will be no opportunities to pay bribes in those areas. Mart Laar

I assume that Mr Beck doesn't believe that Sen Obama is the Antichrist. My complaint is that he asked the stupid question and makes Republicans look like nutters by association.

Upthread you wrote the following

Of course, if that doesn't work, we can say he is secretly a Muslim or perhaps the Anti-Christ (Glenn Beck is an idiot).

Now you are spinning away from that assertion to one where you are complaining that he asked Rev. Hagee about all of the hype and bs gossip about Obama. very weak spin move.

If the rules are transparent and clear, and if the state has no author­ity to license businesses or restrict exports and imports, there will be no opportunities to pay bribes in those areas. Mart Laar

Nothin' gets past you today, does it? You're a regular Scooter Rizzuto.

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.“--Jeff Cooper. From Bill Coffey's collection of military quotations

an empty suit, have detailed policy positions (at least that any of the Obamatons could name, or that wouldnt be a total disaster), qualified to be president, substantive, or even, as far as i can tell, particularly bright or charming. what I see and hear when I look and listen to Barry and his supporters is the fakest, most mind-numbing campaign I've ever had the displeasure of witnessing.

his followers ARE cultish, and if America by some freak accident does elect this fool, they are clearly NOT smarter than anyone gives them credit for. period. end of debate, you lose. sorry.

:-)

JUST KIDDING! I get the notion, but I disagree with you and I think most Americans will also. If we think Americans just go for the shiny objects, then we need to, in my opinion, that Ronald Reagan's admirers were cultish too. I obviously don't think that's true.

He is as qualified to be President as George W Bush or Jimmy Carter or many others that have lived in the White House.

He is as eligible, but not as qualified:

John F. Kennedy: war hero, three-term Congressman, two-term Senator, Pulitzer Prize winner.
Lyndon B. Johnson: six-term Congressman, as a Congressman volunteered for active Navy after Pearl Harbor, two term Senator, VP.
Richard Nixon: long career in politics, two term VP
Gerald Ford: 20+years in Congress, Speaker of the House, VP
Jimmy Carter: Governor
Ronald Reagan: Governor
GHW Bush: Congressman, Ambassador, CIA Director, VP
Bill Clinton: Governor
GW Bush: Governor

John McCain: War hero, Congressman, four-term Senator
Hillary Clinton: Lawyer. First Lady. Two term Senator.
Barack Obama: Illinois State Senator. First term Senator.

It isn't even close, and the campaign is bearing that out.

--
Gone 2500 years, still not PC.

Bingo, not even close. You're average field grade officer is more qualified.

"Honor is self-esteem made visible in action." - Ayn Rand, West Point, 1974

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

LOL

at least half a dozen times in the...oh, you're gone...never mind

He can't be the anti-christ unless he somehow manages to ressurect himself from the dead. I'm not aware of Obama wielding any powers beyond rhetoric.

However, Hillary would have a political ressurection of sorts if she manages to grab the nomination.

Would you care to make a donation?

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater