Conservatives vs Moderates -- Part Deux
By BigGator5 Posted in Republicans — Comments (114) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
HOW I LEARNED TO STOP WORRYING AND GOT ALONG WITH MY POLITICAL BORTHERS AND SISTERS
The Republican Party is indeed at a crossroads. With Republicans siding with Democrats on an out-of-control farm bill (do I really need to link you the story?), it makes even me wonder if they still believe in fiscal conservatism. However instead of blaming corrupt leadership, conservatives blames all their problems on moderates...
And moderates are not helping.
Read on...
You might have seen this shameful and divisive image:
And you might think, mistakingly, that aceintx and his ilk is protesting the corrupt Republican Leadership. No, he is carrying on David Hinz's divisive and destructive upside-down McCain banner.
I don't mind you speaking out on conservative issues. I respect a person who stands on principle, even if I don't agree with you. You know where I stand and I know where you stand, it's the first step in coming together on issues we do agree on.
In fact I like most, if not all, conservatives being consider for McCain's VP. Mark Sanford, Tim Pawlenty, Sarah Palin, Bobby Jindal, JC Watts, Eric Cantor, Sam Brownback, and Kay Hutchison would all be great VPs! Hell, I would vote for all of these people for President!
Some moderates are just as bad...
And best of all, he'd firmly throw the Conservatives under the bus at no cost to his goals. -Brian D Paasch
Brian D Paasch is just plain wrong in thinking McCain doesn't need conservatives. Whether you like it or not, conservative values are the base of the Republican Party. If we disagree with them more than we agree with them, then we really are not Republicans.
No one should be throwing anyone else under the bloody bus, period! Being a Republican, at the end of the day, is about coming together to work on the issues and problems facing the country. Dividing each other over minor differences on how we execute the business of the country, is just plain silly. Sure there needs to be a debate on those minor issues, but the business must get done.
That being said, I am in the business of getting John McCain elected. I ask both moderates and conservatives to please help me get this done. We need to keep Obama out of the White House, at all costs.
Keeping Obama out of the White House, a boring and tired argument for you conservatives? I'll give you that point and I will give you a NEW reason to support McCain.
McCain's VP pick will most likely be one of the few I listed above (it'll be dumb move not to choose a conservative VP) and the VP spot is the best place to run for a Presidental bid in 2012 or 2016. Now I know he hasn't choosen a VP yet, but there is no reason to be vile to us moderates before he makes his choice. I will also be with you in denouncing McCain's choice, if he doesn't choose a conservative, for not reaching out to his conservative brothers and sisters.
So is it always going to be conservatives vs moderates or are we going to unite and tell a corrupt Republican leadership where they can take their out of control spending?
Join The Revolution!
If you like to know more about BigGator5, please visit his on-line journal at BigGator5.net and drop him a line.
since he's advocated me being banned based on the same rule.
Thanks for the backup
:>)
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
You have never missed a chance to attack those of us who are grudgingly supporting McCain. Please stop. It just makes us want to stop helping.
And no, I won't stop helping just because his supporters are rude. I AM after all a pragmatic Republican and I understand that there is not even a CLOSE decision when it comes to picking between an 80% conservative and a 100% Marxist. McCain has to win.
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
I only speak out against people who would divide us, not unite us. If you notice, I slam Brian D Paasch for his divisive comments just as much I denounce aceintx's hateful image.
Quit slamming everyone on our side who doesn't think McCain is the "perfect" candidate (he was #5 on my list). Slamming people who are nominally on your side doesn't endear them to your cause.
Try a kindler gentler approach.
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
I don't think McCain's the perfect candidate either!
I will be the first to admit that I don't agree with McCain 100% of the time. I don't like the idea of closing of Gitmo and federally funded embryonic stem-cell research (why can't we research adult stem-cells?). I would also like to know more of McCain's environmental plan and how it will effect the economy. But I digress...
The main point of this entry is to ask all to stop the snipping comments and hateful images.
"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!
We DO need a bit more party unity. But maybe this is a good time to let people blow off the steam and start the healing process (or at least total acceptance that McCain is the ONLY choice left to us). Better to let them get it off their chests now before the campaign begins in earnest.
Calling people out on every little swipe at McCain isn't helping, it's only escalating it. It's dredging up old wounds that are better left alone to heal.
Now, let's get back to the business of defeating a Marxist.
I've got some brothers in law that need some nudging to support McCain. One is a life long Republican who can't stand McCain (he'll come around). The others are Democrats by family heritage that I think I may be able to turn....
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Distrust is not hate. Dislike is not hate. Non-support is not hate.
Leftists call opposition hate, but this is Republican website so lets avoid rhetorical excess.
Snipping comments? I prefer to call them maverick comments.
That's a very disrespectful image, don't you think? It disgusts even me. However I made it to make a point. I hope that point is made.
Do you feel that the leadership of CPAC has gone astray from what their platform is?
Cause they way it looks is that you are being childish because you have provided zero context or enlightenment as to why you are protesting CPAC.
This is a snipe whereas Ace's sig is a protest...the difference is in the definition.
"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!
Nope, you're whining.
A Protest is to make a statement of conviction based on problems you see in society or in the government.
You're just complaining that you can't get people to hate ace.
What you are doing reminds me of a coworker I once had to wanted to be a professional activist. She wanted to get paid to protest 'social injustices' . . . though she didn't really care what they were (her hot button issue was forcing insurance companies to cover homosexual couples by government mandate) . .. in reality, she just wanted to live a life where she could complain and whine and profit from it.
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Dependence is Slavery.
Do you see me profiting from this? I'm all along!
Yet, it's ok. I am speaking out on disrespectful and dividing images here on RedState. I don't hate aceintx and I wish we can get along. But his and BlackRepub's banners are bad for business. And my business is party unity.
No, and now you're shifting.
I said you reminded me of a former coworker.
I didn't say that I thought that YOU were profiting from it.
Though your old sig with the "Join the Revolution!" link. You did profit from that and I'm interested in knowing if you ever disclosed that if someone followed it and signed up, you were able to get 10 bucks as a referrer.
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Dependence is Slavery.
All of these upside down banners crack me up. Laughter is remedy to a wide variety of ils. While I totally support CPAC, I hope you keep the upside down signature block.
The entire process is upside down this year anyway. If I could post upside down comments, I would.
.yrevalS si ecnednepeD
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..emit erom tib a sekat tsuj ,od ot darh oot eb t'ndluow tI
Ace is protesting the GOP leadership...easily seen since it is a GOP symbol that is upside down...you on the other hand are using the CPAC symbol to attack and individual which is "shameful" as you like to say. If you remember the debate about the original symbol Ace made a compromise and directed his attention away from McCain and to the GOP leadership so as to not degrade McCain. You on the other hand are being purposefully divisive and deceitful because you don't feel like you get enough support from others here on RedState. You are all about throwing people under the bus as long as they don't conform to what you believe is right. You appear to be nothing more than a whiny, squishy, childish moderate who cares more about being right than actually helping to mend the wounds of this political season. So get off you high horse and start smelling the crap you are pushing on the rest of us.
P.S. How do you like my protest sig?
"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!
CPAC has done nothing to me. I'm not protesting CPAC. I am protesting all disrespectful upside-down images on RedState, bcause they have no place in civil discourse.
I choose CPAC, because aceintx has an anti-moderate/McCain image. Since conservatives see no issue in that image, I am displaying a anti-conservative image. I make no bones about it, I'm sicken by what I am doing and I think it's an equally hateful image. But it must be done for you to see my point-of-view.
"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!
Yes, one does tend to ignore the ignorant.
Which is what is being done to you.
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Dependence is Slavery.
but you can't let the actions of others get to you so strongly.
In the big scheme of things, an upside elephant is hardly worth being deeply upset.
If you truly are "sickened" by it, you should take some time off from blogging.
If you think an upside elephant is "hateful" then you really should take a time out to read something that really is hateful.
Having an upside elephant or two probably helps McCain in any case. Independents and Reagan democrats will be more likely to go with McCain and his maverick behavior.
funny. Never said you should remove it. I don't think upside banners "hateful."
However, I must say that I, as a general rule, don't imitate behavior that I find to be "hateful". So if you imitate ace, you are either admitting that his behavior is NOT hateful, or that you are the kind of person who will willingly engage in hate because someone else is doing it.
Just saying that you should determine (to yourself) which option you are proceeding under.
Well, you don't have freedom of speech on a blog, unless you own the website and server...
That said, given that his is to protest the leftward slide of McCain, and yours is to protest him.... veiled in a 'it's all about protesting upside down banners!' argument
I think your case s kind of... weak. To say the least.
But then, that's just my opinion. I have other opinions, but I keep them quiet.
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Dependence is Slavery.
Like I said, I'm glad that someone whose been here 11 weeks can now tell me what is good for Redstate. If you want to leave RedState over my signature, than by all means, don't let the door hit you on the *** on the way out. I changed my signature though, and it truly sickens me how hateful it is as well. Your contributions to this site have been a crapload of ****hing and moaning, so I can't imagine many here will be sorry to see you go. Have some cheese with your whine, it's on the left of your exit.
You
are the only one
who cares.
Hence, by definition, it is not divisive.
Nearly everybody at RedState (with a few exceptions, yourself included) has moved on. We have all gotten down the "business of getting McCain elected."
This does not mean that McCain gets an automatic pass. If he does something to piss people off, it's going to get talked about. We are Republicans and, in many cases, conservatives, because we care about our issues. We will discuss those issues, even when our illustrious Chosen Candidate works against them.
If a diversity of opinion is not welcome on a Republican site, then what the hell are we even trying for?
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Upside-down banners do not contribute to civil discouse, at all. If they really are a protest against GOP Leadership, then why isn't everyone wearing them?
I still don't understand why they don't get a right-side up image to protest?
Ace, if you promise to get rid of that image, I will make you an awesome right-side up image protesting GOP Leadership to the best of my abilities. What do you say?
that can be arranged.
If the requirement is that it has to be a more common practice for it to be legitimate, I will proudly adopt ace's banner if the alternative is the coerced removal of the banner
I had one. I removed it out of respect for the person who asked me to, because of the way I was asked. You on the other hand, tend to make me want to get one of Ace's upside down ones.
Civil discourse starts with the individual.
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You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I care a whit about what you think Gator...As a result I'm not interested in your deal...Where's your upside down CPAC logo by the way? I think you should keep it...it shows everyone you are a squish better than anything else.
I am telling you once again that the tag is not a protest or an attack and it's not about McCain since I removed McCain from the banner. Its a plea for the Party to turn away from it's current course before they run the ship into the shore!
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
Is this really the most pressing issue of the day?
Nobody out side of Redstate gives a **** if somebody on Redstate thinks that McCain is to liberal, and post the McCain banner upside down. No one.
Lets move on, this is producing nothing of value for our cause.
Have you added to the population of the McCain 2008 minicity yet today?
Yes, you've made a point that you whine.
Also, have you disclosed that your "Join the Revolution!" link earns you 10 bucks every time someone signs up?
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Dependence is Slavery.
it's a picture, for God's sake. It's not the American Flag, and it ain't the Cross of Christ.
For the good of everybody, grow some thicker skin, man.
.
I guess he doesn't understand that we don't all have such fragile egos.
I hope he keeps that logo because it will advertise to everyone that he's a moderate but I doubt he'll tick by that pledge any more than he'll stick with his pledge to leave Red State
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
Someone named BigGator5 is talking about some "hateful images".
I don't see any "hateful" images. The word "hate" is overused. When Republican sites start using the word incorrectly maybe it is time to jump ship?
I do see some maverick images but nothing meriting the word "HATE".
Easiset way to pass off on an argument is to say it is hateful, as is being done BY Gator.
The pictures, of course, aren't hateful... but to keep from dealing with the meaning behind them, they are called such.
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Dependence is Slavery.
Who's snipping? Who's trolling Red state looking for a reason to cry about my tag and a chance to slap me with insulting and irrelevant comments with my every post? Who's written two full blown diaries directed at attacking me and whining about the tag? Who threatened and called out the Moderators in a whining woe is me, goodbye cruel world post where you supposedly fell on your sword and wouldn't be back? Who's the one who refuses to engage me in calm, reasoned and polite debate? Have you ever tried reasoning with me and trying to get me to change my mind instead of going off on a one man crusade? Who knows, if you'd stop singling me out I might have gotten bored with the tag and dropped it by now but I'm not about to as long as you keep being so childish!
You made the comment when you whined your way off the site for a couple of days that my posts go to the top of the recommended list and would likely stay there for a month or more and stated that as a reason for taking your ball and going home. I think that's what's really at issue here, nobody wants to read your incoherent and rambling diaries and the only way you can garner any attention at all is by attacking me and others and pissing off half of Red State with your rants.
I'm also guessing you believe that if you keep goading me and getting me to respond that I'll end up getting in trouble with the Moderators. I certainly hope I won't get in trouble with them and can only ask their forgiveness and indulgence but I've had it with your crybaby moanings and groanings and I'm not going to take it any more!
Back to ignore status for you! I only wish Red State had a real ignore feature so I could block your posts from being seen on my screen!
For everyone who needs to check up on Gators whine diaries, heres his post threatening the moderators and administrators! If he keeps this up you can count on a post where I chronicle each and every attack in posts where McCain or my distress call aren't even the subject of the posts.
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
If you will follow the link "I have had enough" and read my posts you'll see that I was trying to be conciliatory in it and asked Gator to stay at Red State.
Look what good it did me!
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
Proud to be a member in good standing with aceintx and David Hinz's ILK.....I would be a part of that ILK.....perhaps we can start having ILK parties....I will bring drinks and aceintx can bring BANNERS ;-)
Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion
We can start a fraternal order of ILKs. Maybe open up some college fraternities. Maybe a Young ILKs subsidiary of the Young Republicans!
ROFLMAO
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
I can add three young ILKs and throw in my wife as another Boomer for ILKS PAC as well!
Announcing ILCPAC please send your money to ACE/ILKPAC and/or BR/ILKPAC directly to our checking accounts please. For each $20 donation you make to ILKPAC before July 4th you will receive one upside down elephant flag which you can proudly display beside OLD GLORY for your neighbors to muse over. A $100 dollar contribution will entitle you to membership in the ELITE ILK CLUB at ILKPAC and an addition contribution of 50 dollars or more will get you an autographed picture of Ace and or BR in fishnets and High Heels
Please note ILKPAC is currently acquiring 501c3 status from the Internal Revenue Service. COntributions to ILKPAC are not tax deductible.
(For those of you in Rio Linda, this is a joke...the PAC isn't real and please don't send me money)
LOL
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
What's ILK?----------------------
Dependence is Slavery.
Ilk is the hite stuff you rink that comes from the dder of a ow.
"I'm not a malefactor, I'm a lagomorph"
You know, the stuff that gives you a little hite ilk ustache when you rink it.
"I'm not a malefactor, I'm a lagomorph"
OHHH... ilk. I was thinking an acronym.
Heh. I must have taken stupid pills today.
But, even hopped up on stupid pills, I seem to be better armed mentally than liberals I deal with on another blog.
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Dependence is Slavery.
he was protesting the GOP leadership. Yes, he got the idea from the McCain thing... but when he switched logos, he explained it.
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Actually rstreu It's not even a protest as I've told a certain someone over and over again. It's a distress signal and has nothing to do with opposition to McCain or anyone else...It's a statement something to the effect that the Republican Ship is about to run aground and we need to turn it around.
The certain someone seems to have a personal obsession with me because this is the second full blown diary singling me out with his attacks and he's trolled my diaries and posts to post sniveling attacks on me not based on anything I've said but based on my Tag. He even did a Diary about how he was leaving Red State because all my posts go to the top of the recommended list and he basically challenged he Moderators to ban him. I even posted a conciliatory comment asking him to stay that we could agree to disagree and that I didn't want to chase him off but that wasn't enough.
I've told him over and over again that I won't bend over backward to appease him but it's not getting through.
anyway...thank you for your defense of my statement.
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
"No one should be throwing anyone else under the bloody bus, period!"
This is a great point, don't eat your own!! But then you really don't mean it because you are busy throwing people under that same "bloody bus".
"You might have seen this shameful and divisive image:"
"And you might think, mistakingly, that aceintx and his ilk is protesting the corrupt Republican Leadership. No, he is carrying on David Hinz's divisive and destructive upside-down McCain banner."
Was that a bump?....Hmm...Best I keep driving.
Remove the log from your own eye before you go after the spec in AceinTX's eye. This diary right here is yet another reason why people don't like moderates. And tell me, do you think the GOP leadership is conservative or moderate?
"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!
But then you really don't mean it because you are busy throwing people under that same "bloody bus".
I do not rip people for their beliefs, but their actions in trying to divide the Republican Party.
I also spend a great deal of time praising conservatives for being the base and putting forth great VP picks, that even I can support. I do not want to push you away, but embrace you as my ideological brother. There might be a small sibling rivalry, but in the end we are family and can count on each other to survive.
If it was up to aceintx and Brian D Paasch, we would be divided and there would be no Republican Party.
And tell me, do you think the GOP leadership is conservative or moderate?
In congress? Yes. I think they are corrupt and it doesn't matter if they are conservative or moderate, because they are not upholding a Republican Core Vaule of fiscal conservatism. They have been spening like drunken sailors since 9/11 and the only person who has learn the lesson of 2006 has been President Bush!
appear to have no basis in actual fact, I have to wonder why you keep insisting on it. What'd he do; steal your girl and kick you in the b@!!s?
If anything, Ace's comments have been doing nothing but try to keep the Republican party going. Just because he believes there's a right direction to turn doesn't mean he wants out of the car.
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And he can do all of that without that hateful image. He may talk all day about party unity, but he carries an image based off a concept of throwing moderates under the bus.
Yes, much better to pander to the moderate and throw the conservative under the bus.
THAT'S unity.
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Dependence is Slavery.
Have you not been reading anything I have typed?
Go back and read, very carefully. I have said over and over, no one should be throwing anyone under the bus.
That's the problem....
Yes, I have.
You seem to SAY one thing, particularly in such posts as this one, then do a bit of a 180 when confronted about it.
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Dependence is Slavery.
nobody's talked about throwing moderates under the bus. Why the hell should he have to change his signature because of the way you've interpreted it, in spite of multiple explanations to the contrary?
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Gator, honestly, you and a lot of your moerate shut up and get in line brethren really to put it bluntly should simply shut up about McCain. The more we hear McCain opening his mouth and saying or doing something stupid, the less we like of him. Not to mention the fact that you throw in pro abortion Kay Hutchinsion and pro global warming Pawlenty in as conservatives. We do not like McCain. We do not like the GOP leadership right now and we are going to speak up about it. The fact that we have a Scoop Jackson Democrat running against a Marxist Democrat does not excite us as much as it excited you and your moderate ilk. And I will attack you as you have taken it upon yourself to attack us, even calling out my friend ace by name. We are conservatives first, not Republicans first. Republican used to be the vehicle for conservatism, but the last 8 years and the next 4 have us looking at buying a new car.
The trouble with our friend John McCain isn't that he's ignorant, but that he knows so much that isn't so.
But let's leave McCain out of it because that's what this certain someone keeps insisting it is all about when I have said over and over again that it is not.
Let's not play into his hands by giving him any fuel for the fire...ya know what I mean?
Say hi to the new bride for me!
:>)
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
Gators constant sniping about how he's in the business of getting McCain elected and the rest of us should shut up grinds my gears to quote Family Guy. It's about McCain and the rest of those who would tell conservatives to go [redacted] ourselves. Btw, the bride's well, and still smiling, and I'm back for the long haul and the war. My symbols will stay until we get our party back, which means after the election whomever wins.
The trouble with our friend John McCain isn't that he's ignorant, but that he knows so much that isn't so.
No arguments from me about
of McCain's supporters, but your not helping me by giving Gator gas to throw on the flames IMHO.
That being said, I've voiced my concern and wouldn't stand in your way if you need to vent some more.
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
me what belongs on RedState having been here for all of 11 weeks. I was here when this was Redstate.org, 1.0 buddy, and Redstate is as much for conservatism as it is a Republican site. And if we can have moderators and contributors who have wrote diaries in the primary season about sitting out if Guiliani was going to be the nominee, than those of us who are unenthusiastically voting for McCain certainly can put an upside down sticker on a conservative website without someone throwing a hissy fit temper tantrum about it.
The trouble with our friend John McCain isn't that he's ignorant, but that he knows so much that isn't so.
I cannot agree more.
The RNC is making a leftward slide and there is NO obligation for any conservative to vote for McCain.
The most common tactic is to try and scare us into voting for him "You WANT Obama to be president?!" . .. this is a false comparison as not wanting Obama does not, and should not, equal support of McCain. I wouldn't want Hitler to be President, but that doesn't mean I'd support President Fonzie from Iran (I'm sorry, but upon all that is holy, he reminds me of "The Fonz").
The second most common tactic is guilt. "You know, if you're not voting for McCain, you're just electing Obama." The root is the same as the previous tactic, except it goes from questioning to making a direct cause/effect relationship so as to keep a conservative from voting conservative.
In neither of the above cases is ANY case given as to why we should support McCain.
The ONLY case that has EVER been presented that has any rational reason as to why a conservative ought to vote for McCain is the war on terror. That said, I'm not wholly sold on Obama 'pulling us out of Iraq' . .. I still stand by the months old prediction (on another blog as it predates my membership here) that a Democrat president would say "I was against this war, but due to top secret information of national security, I have been made aware of how horribly President Bush has run the war. It would be a horrible mistake to pull out 'at this time.' We are, instead, going to shift our focus to building schools and repairing the damage we have done." (Which, of course, we've been doing the whole time, but this time around the media would be on the Democrat President's side, unlike with President Bush)
However, you hit it spot on. We're being asked to choose between a Marxist and someone who, just a few decades ago, would have been considered a Democrat. To far too many, we conservatives are just supposed to 'shut up and take it' . ..
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Dependence is Slavery.
running away. John McCain is certainly not a down-the-line Conservative as defined by many RedStaters, but he is certainly more Conservative that Barack Obama. So, you may indeed have a choice between the lesser of two evils but there is a real choice. If, however, you think that Sen Obama is going to win by a wide (4%+) margin, then by all means vote for a protest candidate or sit out the election. I think it will be a close election and every vote will count.
Jimmy Carter is more conservative than Obama, that doesn't mean that I'd like to see him in office.
Comparing McCain to Obama as a basis for determining McCain's conservative nature is misleading.
If you want to determine his conservative nature, compare him to conservatives.
Here again, as I said in my very post you replied to, is a variant on the most common tactics....
calls for people who don't like McCain to just sit out. (Followed by the slightly less often used "Well, sitting out an election isn't going to help your cause!")
I have never made a call to sit out this election. I have just, repeatedly, said that McCain is not a conservative, a conservative is what we need, the RNC is moving left, and I see no obligation for a Conservative to vote for a political party that has been abandoning conservatives for the sake of being a 'big tent' party (Read: We want moderates, even if we have to ignore conservatives.)
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Dependence is Slavery.
a Conservative though he is certainly conservative enough for me. I am merely trying to lay out the choices available to those fellow Republicans who are thinking of not happy with John McCain as the GOP candidate.
1. Vote for McCain anyway because he is the better (not the ideal) of the two candidates on many/most of the issues you care about.
2. Vote for an alternative candidate in order to register a principled protest against their view of a leftward tilt of the party
3. Sit out the election as a principled protest against the perceived leftward tilt of the party.
While you are certainly free to do any of those things, you and your ideological bretheren will have to live with the consequences. If you believe that 4 years (at least) of President Obama is price you are willing to pay to move the GOP "back" towards conservative ideological purity, then by all means select option 2 or 3. If you think you and your compatriots will be able to influence the party into a more rightward tilt while President John McCain is in office, I would urge you to select option 1.
Elections are about choosing the best person for the job from among those who are available. In this case the choices are McCain and Obama. Voting for anyone else or not voting at all is a protest that no one will notice and no one will care about, but it may end up that the WORST possible person will get elected. And yes every vote counts.
Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
That's fine, though I do challenge anyone to find a post here or on any other blog where I advocate not voting as a sign of protest.
I do think that the two big parties have a lock on elections and have fostered the idea that unless you vote for a D or an R, you're just 'wasting your vote' (yet, both the Democrat and Republican parties were, at one point, 'third parties' that they now bemoan)
I made a prediction long ago and it has continued to hold true. The DNC is moving to the left into marxist-communist lala land. To take up that ground, the RNC is moving to the Left, leaving conservatives (except to bully them for their vote) behind to embrace the 'moderates' and 'disenfranchised' Democrat voters. In fact, just last night, McCain put out a call for Hillary Clinton supporters to vote for him instead of Obama.
In light of this, you're starting to see Conservatives, such as myself, get rather vocally upset (or, in this case, the internet version of vocally) over the abandonment. Conservatives, with only a few exceptions of some GOOD congressmen, are being left behind for the sake of the undecided moderate. The only time we seem to matter, as conservatives, is when we're told that we have to vote for the Republican becase [insert variant of 'you'll elect a democrat otherwise.']
However, when the Republican nominee can make a serious call for Democrats to vote for him because their candidate didn't get the nod, one has to ask..... Do we really have a Democrat and a Republican? It seems to me that we have a Marxist-under-a-D's-Name and a Democrat-under-a-R's-name.
Do we need to go much further than just looking at this cap and trade legislation that McCain supports? Even President Bush (who is what I'd consider to be a liberal republican) says he'll veto it. McCain seems to be supporting this.
Thankfully, my congressmen have been excellent.
Down the card I am VERY likely to vote R all the way (not sure about Lance Cargill, but as far as I've heard, he isn't running for reelection and there is already a republican running for his spot.
As for President... I am unsure. Undecided. (Hey, maybe the RNC will pander to me now.)
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Dependence is Slavery.
OK...I've had enough and I've said all I need to say. I'm out of here before I get in trouble with Moe and the rest of the Mods because he told Gator and I last night to knock it off.
You guys have at him and thanks for backing me up!
Ta!
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
all just get along?"
-Rodney King
oh, and watch out for the bus....
Regards
Gentlemen. This is getting old.
Gator, you say you are in the business of getting McCain elected. Excellent. I recommend you pursue that business by promoting Mr. McCain, both in terms of his issues and his personal qualities. Make the case. Sing his praises. Take your hits in the comments but keep on hammering why you beleive he is the best man for the job. (Hint: hurling insults at those who don't like him will not get you one vote closer to your goal.)
Ace and BR, your frustrations with McCain are noted. You have made them crystal clear. They do not, however, in any way effect the fact that he is the Republican party's nominee this year. I'm not saying "shut up" but I am saying that unless you have something new and constructive to say on this topic, you, too, are not getting anywhere with the current debate. (Hint: actively supporting candidates you do like will help you remake the party more to your liking.)
The current topic has been beaten to death. You're all clever writers and intelligent people so can spar and parry with the best of them, but let's move on to a new subject, shall we?
Many thanks.
Just a little background so you know what this is about AE. I have moved on. What got this started was a post I did " A Tale of Two Cities on a Hill: The Republican Party at a Cross Roads " which had absolutely nothing to do with McCain and in praise of Congressman Pence. Big Gator was the first poster and made what I thought was a perfectly reasonable post and I replied in good faith. What followed was sniping attack after sniping attack. I extended my hand trying to engage him in reasonable dialog and got my hand slapped for the effort. This is the second time he's done this on a diary I've done that was meant as a constructive post and only mentioned McCain in Passing including " The Body of Conservatism: Each Part is Crucial for the Optimal Function of the Other Parts; What’s Wrong Today!. It's been 2 weeks since I've done a diary that criticized McCain in any way.
This is the third diary Gator has made attacking me by name! He pops up in every diary and every thread I post in with sniping attacks. As a result and I refuse to play nice with him any more. I swore I wouldn't post any more to this diary but I just want you to know what this is about because you seem to think this is all a result of me and BR incessantly attacking McCain which isn’t true, Go read my posts for yourself, I’ve provided links to some of them to make it easy.
I also want to call your attention to the post earlier in this thread where I provided a link to another thread dedicated almost entirely to me where he threatened the Moderators and said he was leaving the sight because it was filled with McCain haters. You can also read my posts to that thread where I tried to be conciliatory toward him and asked him not to leave. As I recall I got my hand of friendship slapped that time too.
Bottom line, I’m sick of the harassment and I’m sick of having diaries posted attacking me which are totally out of proportion to anything I’ve said or done. I’m sick of having my motives and my stated purpose with my tag mischaracterized when I have made post after post explaining that it is not an attack or a protest it is simply a plea to the party and a signal of distress to turn from it’s current course as demonstrated lately by 100 Congressman voting to over ride Bush’s veto of a Three Hundred Billion Dollar Farm Bill.
I’m the last one here to advocate anyone being banned and I may be calling attention to myself and committing suicide by saying it because I’ve unwittingly run afoul of the moderators here before and have been under the gun as a result, but I can’t help but wonder how much longer Gator is going to be allowed to single me out and be “Disruptive” to Red State?!
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
As pointed out by Finrod, this is simply a slam against another RS poster.
And it's another proof point for the need for a RS twit filter.
The Unofficial RedState FAQ
“You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say. ” - Martin Luther
in the face of a GOP that is an imperfect vessel of conservative agenda. The action required is simple:
1. Get conservatives to win primaries
2. Get *conservative* Republicans elected.
We did #1 in NM and CA:
- Pearce is the Senate nominee for New Mexico, the more conservative candidate beat the more moderate candidate Wilson
- McClintock beat Ose in CA congressional primary
Beyond that, we have a number of conservative senate and house candidates who desperately need our support.
I would humbly suggest that pics of upside-down elephant will do nada/nothing/zippo to get Pearce elected, but a Pearce GIF *would*. Maybe if you replaced the upside-down elephant with your favorite candidate(s), it would make the point much better.
Allen West for Congress!
Do you then admit that only moderates have a chance to win statewide or national contests? I'm not saying that's true but it's dangerous to declare a trend based on limited information.
Ok, I promise I would make you a banner. Even has a nice haiku in it.
If you want ace to change banners, STOP mentioning it.
Your behavior is going to attract more banner distress signals.
No, I'm not personally attacking you. If I was personally attacking you, I would call you names and singled you out. If you notice in this blog, I also slam a moderate who wanted to throw conservatives under the bus.
I still don't understand why, if you want to protest GOP Leadership, you won't use a banner that has less history in attacking moderates attached to it. I made a great banner that I hope you will take and I will even host it (or any other banner) for you. I have told you over and over agin, we could be friends if you would just... get... rid... of... that... offensive... banner!
But you have singled me out haven't you? And yes, You did throw in a token Moderate like you did in your other two diaries attacking me...so what?
As for you making a banner for me, I am perfectly capable of making my own banner as evidenced by your incessant whining and complaining about my current one.
Finally, You've had your head handed to you by people I've had disagreements with in the past and we've been able to work together where we agree and debate one another in a respectful way and have become very good friends. I can tell you here and now, after your obsessive behavior the same will never happen between you and I. There are also others who have handed your head who disagreed with my use of this tag in the beginning and you've driven them to my side of it.
In short you've made a complete and total A** of yourself and have made yourself a laughing stock here. take my advice, take a hint from all those jumping your behind and give it up already!
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!
This is to disabuse anyone else of the notion that you can ignore the Directors (and moderators, but most especially Directors) of this site if you think (in your own infinite wisdom) that you have a *really good reason* to do so. That's what the contact form is for, boys and girls. And if you don't receive a response from the contact form, then assume that your appeal has been denied.
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And don't bother asking to return a third time:
"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill
several other folks you could put in that picture as well.
Coburn, DeMint, Pence, Shadegg.....you know, like the stamp of the week.
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Just a typical, small town, British-American girl...
In fact, if ace doesn't take it, I might take it for myself. I can't believe how awesome it came out.
Yup, if you go to the website and delete everything after the .com you can find a 'refer a friend' type link down at the bottom and that's where it discusses that if you refer someone who signs up you can get 10 bucks.
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Dependence is Slavery.
I would like to thank all who has at least debated with me without calling me a child or say they will start ignoring me (which is a sign of ignorance).
There has been nothing personal about this whole entry or debate, at least for me. I personally think me and aceintx could be friends, because we really agree on many things. His continued use of that banner is what is preventing such friendship and that makes me sad. The whole concept of any upside-down banner is so sickening to me, that I even deleted the one I made. I don't know how aceintx could keep on putting such an evil banner in his signature.
If you don't like McCain, I don't really care. Turn your energy on stoping Obama from being elected or talk about local elections (as suggested by Moe).
OK so now I'm not hateful and offensive...I'm EVIL?
I guess that says it all doesn't it?
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
never be "friends" with him....good God man he whines like a liberal....we conservatives don't play that way....We know where we stand and we know we will support McCain over the marxist Obama....so we need not address anyone who questions our commitment to the Republican who was picked by the masses.
He left and took his ball because he couldn't MAN UP and take the heat on posts....really is there anything else to say about that and he uses liberal words like "evil" to try to drive the conversation....he feels upset by your little icon...pathetic....can you imagine yourself po'd over a little icon...come on....drop him...you will feel better about your visit's to Redstate.
Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion
I agree..I keep saying I'm going to ignore him and keep getting dragged back into it!
I'm with you from here on
"A political party cannot be all things to all men."--Ronald Reagan
Hi. You've been expressly instructed to drop this argument by a site Director, and in case you're wondering, that's fully and absolutely binding. I could shut down the comments in this thread, but that would deprive me of the joy of banning the next idiot who thinks it doesn't apply to them. So just for clarity, THIS DISCUSSION IS OVER, MOVE ALONG. PERIOD.
By the way: aceintx? Blackrepub? There will be no graphic signatures in RS 3.0. I'll leave you to contemplate the probable reasons for this decision QUIETLY and SOMEWHERE ELSE.
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Um... I didn't read this far down when I posted my "ilk" comments in jest. I hope you can see I was just adding mild humor and meant nothing by it. I'm out of this thread.
"I'm not a malefactor, I'm a lagomorph"
From the posting rules:
Get off your anti-aceintx bloggyhorse already. You're not going to convince him otherwise, so all you're generating is heat and no light.
Not recommended.
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Finrod's First Law of Bandwidth:
A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it takes the bandwidth of ten thousand.