Does ANY Candidate Want My Vote For President?
By David Hinz Posted in 2008 — Comments (383) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
PUT YOUR HAND BACK DOWN, JOHN!
In the first place, to assuage the concerns I am sure will soon be voiced by Adam C, let me state for the record that I will PROBABLY still be voting for John McCain in November. But GAWD! Is he doing everything humanly possible to make that decision as tough as possible?
The short answer is YES!
While I admit, I was not listening to his speech before the Los Angeles World Affairs Council live, I did hear enough excerpts to force myself to pull over to the side of the road until the red rage want away, and I could once again see straight enough to drive.
The "Straight-Talk Express" made what was billed as his first opportunity to outline his foreign policy -- the policy we can expect him to pursue once ensconced in the Oval Office. From the Los Angeles Times:
In a broad-ranging foreign policy speech, Sen. John McCain pledged today that, if elected, his administration's foreign policy would be based on cooperation with U.S. allies and he called for a league of democracies that could build "an enduring peace."
In remarks to the Los Angeles World Affairs Council, McCain cautioned that America's power and influence "does not mean we can do whatever we want whenever we want," and said U.S. leaders should not "assume we have all the wisdom and knowledge necessary to succeed."
"We need to listen to the views and respect the collective will of our democratic allies," McCain said before an audience of several hundred people in the ballroom of the Westin Bonaventure Hotel. "When we believe international action is necessary, whether military, economic or diplomatic, we will try to persuade our friends that we are right. But we, in return, must be willing to be persuaded by them."
While I admit, I myself have advocated a "League of Democracies" in a piece done both here at RedState and at The HinzSight Report, the organization as I envisioned it centered around American leadership, not the hat-in-hand pleading with the international community discussed by Sen McCain.
From that rather long article entitled The United Nations -- a Portrait of Failure, I closed with these thoughts.
The US then should set up another body, sort of a “coalition of the willing,” to borrow a term from this President, which is limited to demonstrably democratically elected governments. A good beginning might include, The US, Canada, Great Britain, France (with reservations), Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, India and Japan.
Unlike the United Nations, not all nations would be eligible for this coalition, but only those deemed worthy by the member nations. Other nations could apply for membership. In a few years, through United States leadership, Afghanistan and Iraq might well qualify.
The first order of business for this new Organization would be the war on terror; eliminating terrorist cells and states wherever they arise. This coalition of the democratic nations of the world, could and would act as “policeman of the world,” taking decisive action to stop mass murders and atrocities across the globe. They can do no worse than the failed United Nations, and can, in my opinion, probably do much better!
Given that either Obama or Hillary will turn US sovereignty over to the United Nations, further eroding out standing in the world -- I still must cast my vote with Sen McCain on this issue.
His speech today touched also on the detainee facility at Guantanamo Bay. As in the past, he still does not like it. He wants, in fact, to close the facility down. This is NOT a bone thrown to the Conservative base. In fact, I feel certain that this issue will be a big winner with moderate Democrats and Independents.
With that aim, he repeated his call for closing the detention center at Naval Air Station Guantanamo Bay in Cuba stating that the United States cannot subject suspected terrorists to torture or inhumane treatment, a stance that drew applause from the audience.
As I pointed out above, this is not a new position for the senator. Back in July, 2006 he told Fortune Magazine, in an interview:
"I'd like to say a few things about the Supreme Court's decision yesterday on the whole issue of detainees in Guantanamo Bay. The good news is that it has unstuck the process. The administration has been saying they were waiting [for the ruling.] The Court said two things: the court said they should be handled under the Unified Military Code of Justice.
The UMCJ does not guarantee all the rights [that the civilian court system does], but I think it's basically a fair system. The other was the admonition to adhere to the Geneva conventions. I'm not surprised by that either.
What I'm hoping is that we can start a hearing in the Armed Services Committee, and, as soon as we get back from our well-earned recess, we can push the issue forward.... Guantanamo has become a symbol around the world that is not good. I've always believed it was not the facility, but the lack of movement. [The fact that detainees are not getting their day in court.] You've got some bad guys in there, but you may also have some innocent people.
Oh yes, we need a Republican Presidential candidate who tells people that there are innocent people being held at Gitmo. This is helpful.
But, both Obama and Hillary would like to close that facility down as well, and probably confer Constitutional rights upon the detainees. I'm not entirely sure what Sen McCain intends to do with the detainees, but it cannot be any worse than the plans put forth by the Democrats. Still not enough difference to withhold my vote for McCain.
Probably the most frightening thing the good senator told his audience today was his fealty to the hoax of Manmade Global Warming. A true believer now, of the Goracle, from MarketWatch:
Presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain on Wednesday called for greater vigilance in combating global warming, saying that a successor to the Kyoto Treaty should be enacted.
McCain called for the U.S. to be good "stewards of our
planet," saying the treaty that U.S. has yet to ratify is necessary to preserve the Earth. A cap-and-trade system in which environmental credits are exchanged much like common stock is a system the Arizona senator said he favors."The risks of global warming have no borders," McCain said. "We and the other nations of the world must get serious about substantially reducing greenhouse gas emissions in the coming years or we will hand off a much-diminished world to our grandchildren."
So, it is not bad enough that Kyoto would cripple the US economy, setting us back decades while still giving a free pass to the largest polluters on the planet, India and China, now the good senator wants to go BEYOND Kyoto with an even more draconian agreement.
In this, he goes much further than his remarks of two years ago, when he told Fortune Magazine:
Finally, climate change is real.... The fact that we have not done more about it is a crime to our children and grandchildren.... I travel a lot around the world, usually at your expense, and [I've seen the effects of global warming.] I think we need to stop arguing whether it's happening.
Climate change is real, and we need to begin to start figuring out how we can reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The trick in my mind is to get business to see that reducing greenhouse emissions [is in their economic interest.] Lieberman's and my cap-and-trade legislation should have gotten more attention....
Nuclear power, in my view, is not only a viable, but a very important element in our effort to reduce our dependence on foreign oil... Let me remind you that the Europeans have moved forward long ago on nuclear power. It's a question of psychology not technology.
--snip--
...On Kyoto: we needed to have China and India. We're not going to sell Kyoto to the American people without China and India. On the issue of waste, I've always been in favor of re-processing. Yucca Mountain is the worst kind of [shameful situation.] We can't [put waste in their because] it's only good for 10,000 years? Now, I worry about the future, but God Almighty!
As on the other issues, Obama and Hillary are, if anything, worse than Sen McCain -- marginally!
As I stated at the top, is there ANY candidate who WANTS my vote for President? At the moment, THIS conservative is frustrated, conflicted and angry.
It took all of five minutes in his big speech on the economy to bring up climate change. Arrrggghhhh. Can't someone tell him that there are no "green collar" jobs.
I have said I think he only needs to be good, not great, to win this election. When I hear him speak, though, I worry that he can even muster good. He just does not inspire.
I have decided to tune him out so I won't get so angry that I won't vote for him.
I believe the only good that can come from a McCain presidency in the AGW arena is that he may initiate large scale use of nuclear power to acheive reduction of greenhouse gasses. If this were to be coupled with a transition to large scale electricfied rail transport we might accomplish something that is actually in our best interests.
I believe AGW is a hoax but large scale nuclear power generation would foster economic growth and reduce fossil fuel consumption and this would be a worthy goal even if it is the result of a liberal agenda.
I realize that the environmentalists are well aware of this path and will throw every phony arguement in its way, but mcCain has endorsed nuclear power.
(which is not a plan) that the fine and wise people who run this country would try to find solutions to the two problems, one real and one not, which plague us, to wit, 1) Reliance on middle eastern oil and 2) global warming.
A solution to our reliance on foreign oil might include electric, pneumatic, coal diesel, and hydrogen powered cars, but will not ever include ethanol. A solution to global warming could happen this summer, if it follows the pattern set this winter and stays cool.
--
Gone 2500 years, still not PC.
and he will suddenly find, as president that all those senators from the other side of the aisle who were so very eager to work with him as a senator will now call him a neo-conservative warmongering liar.
If it wasn't so predictable it would be fun to watch.
Can I get my train in red ?
Will the chicks dig it ?
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
for passengers, that is. The country is simply too big to make it work.
Works great for moving coal & lumber.
"After two years in Washington, I often long for the realism and sincerity of Hollywood." -Fred Dalton Thompson
Of course I realize that GW is not a real issue, I said as much, but since most of those who propose it who also don’t believe it is real have their agenda, I simply wanted to tag my agenda (nuclear power generation) into the mix. I don’t have anything against your other solutions when they are market supported. (Someday some will be.) Of course the widespread availability of lower cost electricity will spur the use of battery powered hybrid type vehicles.
As far as rail transport, while I am a romantic about passenger travel, I was actually only refering to rail freight and commute passenger travel. For example, the 70 diesel trains that run on regular track between San Jose and San Francisco in California are a good case for electrification provided that there is enough of the juice to run the trains and not face periodic brownouts.
BTW, all the chicks dig red trains with narrow silver streaks.
America generally. He accepts the media CV that America has bullied allies and tortured illegal enemy combatants as a matter of policy at Gitmo.
McCain and the msm have never named even ONE perpetrator or victim of same at Gitmo.
He slanders the US.
Would McCain have followed France's lead and not have invaded Iraq?
no
So what is he about?
He is about 10 times better than Obama or Hillary.
Not saying much.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
I was starting to warm up to him again, like I did Waaaaay back in 2000 when I supported him. This speech was like a bucket of ice water.
it's the assumption that all the "independents" are more liberal than moderate Republicans. I thought McCain would at least remember the "Reagan Democrats."
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Anyone who has followed McCain's career for even a small amount of time would realize he is not into going along with the crowd.
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Molon Labe!
McCain is not going to subordinate our policy to some guy in Brussels, it is not his style at all. If anything, he is calling out our allies to step up to the plate. The dirty little secret is we DO need allies, the world really is that screwed up!
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Molon Labe!
Outstanding Point IJB....BTW...I can't help but wonder....Why Carrot Top?
You could have picked any other clown like Pauly Shore or Earnest, or even Larry the Cable Guy...yet you go right to Carrot top?...Hmmmm....is there anything we need to know about you??
LOL
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
exceptionalism that think before we agree with al qaeda and accuse Americans of torture that we have
PROOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
These are the same positions he took during the primary where he won a plurality of Republican votes.
He's also pro-life, good on judges, for cutting taxes further, against government taking over health care, against government taking over mortgage markets and/or bailing out people who made dumb decisions, and staunch on pork/earmarks/spending.
It was all one package, good and bad. And the other candidates had good and bad. We have our package and its better than theirs.
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because for my entire voting life, I've been in the "best of two bad choices" situation. So it's hard for me to feel to bad about others being in that spot. It's nice to once actually believe in the candidate I support.
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Im slightly less screwed full stop.
And I would consider Kennedy’s, Sandra Day to be the very best from him pledge for Alitos and Thomas’s notwithstanding. But that’s light years ahead of Tribe.
every time McCain continues to second our enemy's claims of torture at Gitmo sans any evidence
that McCain still worships algoremmgwarming despite new evidence of global cooling
every time mccain insults Bush and America with undeservesblameamericafirstism
did mccain not see the french and german elections?
We cannot stay silent
when we hear barack's 20-year-pew-parked butt at the feet of a racist anti-american kook;
when we hear clinton lies; and
when we are insulted by mccain.
That something is not "new" doesn't mean its not news.
We are conservatives. There is nothing new under the sun. But the sad fact is that people, incl mccain still don't get it.
We will not be silent.
I am still voting for mccain with nose unobstructed.
I worship Jesus Christ, not any mccain.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
I don't see it. He supported closing GITMO in the primary. He (and other Rs like Romney, Rudy, and Huck) believe global warming is occurred and partially man-made. And he has emphasized working with allies more (which is a rather popular view with most voters).
He's also stood resolute on the War when it was at its nadir in popularity and he still stands resolute. But perfection continues to be the bane of our ability to support the better candidate.
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Adam...He's saying we've been wrong for the last eight years and affirming every vile thing our enemies foreign and domestic have said of us.
We know this is nothing new for him! I was one of those screaming the loudest about it. Here's the rub...He needs us to vote for him...he needs to reassure those of us who want to support him that he's not everything we fear he is...I've been coming around to voting for him and have settled myself to the inevitability of it....and what does he do...he busts me in the jaw from left field...He announces a major foreign policy speech where it's assumed he will distinguish himself from the Democrats and stands up and echoes everything the Dems have said for the last 8 years!
If this is what we can expect for the next 9 months...we're in for a real warm and steaming pile of something being served up for the next four years!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
I realize you can't stand some of his foreign policy views, but...
"...and affirming every vile thing our enemies foreign and domestic have said of us." (emphasis added)
Has no basis in fact.
"...and echoes everything the Dems have said for the last 8 years!" (emphasis added)
Has no basis in fact.
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- "Make love not war? Real men can do both!"
OK...I'll echo "my girl Hillary" in reply, I misspoke for the first time in 12 years....
Just kidding
Obviously I'm exaggerating for the purpose of making a point but saying we're guilty of torture...and saying we're imprisoning innocents at gitmo...and implying we've had a "go it alone" foreign Policy is awful close to my fish story!!!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
probably more than I hate hyperbole I might as well point out that "has no basis in fact" is innacurate. You probably should have said "is a gross exageration" or "is not accurate". Aceintx comments were not nonsense, they were just over the top.
And as a side essay: why I hate hyperbole condemnation -by tadams
Too many people (not sure if you were attempting it, Glock), have a tendancy to shoot down an otherwise reasonable argument or valid point based on the person arguing going perhaps a little too far. I've frequently seen it used by people who know of instances where my exageration is right, but because I exagerated they attempt to invalidate my argument and characterise my assertion as being completely wrong or insignificant. That is not a characteristic of an honest discussion/argument. That is a debate tactic used to make points and has no real place in a discussion/argument that is actually seeking Truth.
Nothing personal, Glock, but I'm just tired of seeing accusations of hyperbole without the honest support for what was was true about the hyperbole (if there was anything true about it).
That's all for now. Look forward to next week when I'll rant about people who ask stupid questions like "Can you even site one example of a Guiliani appointed judge making a bad judgment?" as if not finding one would prove that there weren't any or that finding one would prove that he appoints liberal judges consistently.
"Hey, I call 'em like I see 'em. I'm a whale biologist."
when I first started posting. There are plenty of bad faith debaters who just want to look for and quibble over the tiniest loose thread in whatever arguement you are making rather than acknowledge any bigger picture point.
But as annoying as those people are, they are not going away, all you can do is self-edit as much as possible before posting to minimize what they have to work with, and ignore the nitpickers when they do surface.
We're not asking for perfection....HI don't think having a candidate that doesn't agree with our enemies and give our political enemies a fat spiked mace to beat us over the head would be nice!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
---
Finrod's First Law of Bandwidth:
A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it takes the bandwidth of ten thousand.
555
Better hope to influence the debate now before its too late. It's better to demand people like McKinnon go before its too late. It's better to let McCain know conservative support is conditional before its too late.
It's better to try and talk some sense into McCain before headlines like "Soren Dayton Railroaded By The National Media / McCain Camp Sans Balls" become headlines like this "American Sovreignty And Economy Railroaded By Congress / McCain Camp Sans Balls"
His appointees to the RNC aren't all that encouraging either. He's shown nothing but contempt for us up till now...and I don't expect much more from him going forward.
Check these Novak stories:
> McCain's Mistake
By Robert D. Novak
Saturday, March 22, 2008
MCCAIN'S LIBERAL
John McCain's team that is taking over the Republican Party has decided on Bobbie Greene Kilberg, a liberal Republican from Virginia long detested by conservatives, to run the party's national convention in St. Paul, Minn., in August.
Kilberg, as an aide to President George H.W. Bush in 1990, promoted White House overtures to gay activists. She won an internal power struggle over gay politics with fellow Bush assistant R. Douglas Wead, who was fired as White House liaison to religious conservatives.
When Kilberg appeared on television by McCain's side the night of Feb. 12 after he won the Virginia primary, her presence was resented by conservatives as a sign of contempt for them.
CEO at the GOP
By Robert Novak
March 08, 2008
WASHINGTON, D.C.—Conservatives and party regulars were not happy about the selection of Carly Fiorina to head the Republican National Committee’s “Victory 2008” campaign raising funds for the presidential election. She was one of the nation’s most visible CEOs before she was fired by Hewlett-Packard in 2005 for not generating enough profits.
Federal Election Commission records show Fiorina contributed nothing to the Republican Party the last eight years. Her only political giving was to Sen. John McCain’s presidential campaign—$2,100 in 2006 and $2,300 in 2007. Fiorina was at McCain’s side when he campaigned in the critical Michigan and Florida races.Fiorina has no standing in the conservative movement and has taken no position on the abortion question.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
The Democrats are the gift that keeps on giving, The question is...can McCain open the package?
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Does that mean he will appoint good judges like Alito and Roberts? Or "good judges" that will hold up McCain-Feingold and take the side of the ACLU on torture and Gitmo?
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
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"These are the same positions he took during the primary where he won a plurality of Republican votes."
The real big news story would be if he changed his positions from the ones that irritated the conservatives who didn't vote for him.
I can hardly blame people who are driven up the wall by his policy positions for complaining about it, but I don't understand all of these posts that claim that the same thing he touted before was some sort of new proof he is turning on them.
It's the same package as before with everything I liked and didn't like about him. Perhaps I'm a bit biased because he's a candidate I feel like I'm compromising the least on in a long time. If he had swung more to the conservatives who disliked him before I think I would have noticed (and complained) and the media would have had no shortage of flip-flop coverage about it. Never happened afaik.
Same ol' McCain.
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- "Make love not war? Real men can do both!"
AdamC's writeups on McCain bring truth to the situation. He is a conservative. Not as conservative as many here would like, but overall a conservative. Just happens to go maverick on some issues.
And if he flip-flops...bad news. So, he does have to stick to his guns. Which means many of those here again will not be happy as they continue to nitpick him.
Erik
You sound like a broken record Adam. He's not even trying to act like one of us any more! As I predicted...He's got the nomination so we can all just go to hell!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Or at least refrain from putting words into the Senator's mouth. He didn't tell anyone to go to hell, the only time he's mention it is saying he would "chase Osama to the Gates of Hell."
More importantly, as noted above, none of these positions are new. He's not "moving to the middle" or "hating conservatives." He had a platform of views that were well known. Republicans nominated him, good and bad.
If tomorrow he becomes pro-choice, then I'd expect an avalanche of criticism and diaries (and your comments). But these are all views he expressed before. We knew what our choices were.
I'll stop being a broken record when Hinz and you do. But as long as you are bringing up the same criticisms, I'll bring the same responses.
Maybe if we had another candidate who appealed to Is, was serious about fighting pork (including his own party's pork), had the experience to lead a War, had a decent shot at winning, had a good record on judges, and had some credibility on small government issues, we could have had a decent primary. But we had an odd crowd of good but imperfect candidates. We picked one.
Harping on any alleged imperfections doesn't change the fact that we lucky to even have a chance in 2008. For everyone wishing Bush could just run again, recall the 30% approval rating. We'd be staring at a 60-40 election with Reagan-sized landslide written all over it.
Because of our good fortune we have the only candidate who 1) wholeheartedly supports our troops and mission in Iraq and 2) has a chance at winning.
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First, telling conservatives to go to hell isn't a quote it's implied by hs speach and his actions.
Second, I didn't say this wasn't all known before...I was one of the only posters here who was saying he wasn't as strong on foreign policy as many at Red State were saying he was when the primaries were winding down and I was pretty soundly thrashed for saying it.
Third, as for avoiding threads about McCain...as you've never missed one to defend him and sing his praises, I find it hard to miss one to point out my problems with him, especially when he's made a speech like the one he made today.
You know I've toned it down and I have written a few, (granted not many), posts to my Diary that were at least charitable to McCain. I've said over and over again that I want to support him. Then he pulls stunts like this speech.
I'm here venting now because I heard his speech today, he did himself no favors with it. He has a problem with Conservatives. He's said so himself. I don't know why he insists on being so antagonistic towards us and insists on picking at the scab and rubbing salt in it. Maybe you can find out and get back to me?
As for:
Harping on any alleged imperfections doesn't change the fact that we lucky to even have a chance in 2008.
If Republicans have a chance this year it's not because of McCain, it's because the Democrats are in the process of destroying themselves. If anything, McCain is doing everything he can to ensure the damage they do to themselves won't hurt them.
Finally,
I find myself in the odd position of defending Hinz. As I remember, Hinz was one of those riding the BAN wagon, (Yes BAN, not a spelling error), when everyone had their knives out wanting to ban me. I don't recall him being all that rabidly anti McCain all this time...but I could be wrong.
Bottom line...McCain made a speech today, many of us have a problem with the things he had to say. I've picked at you a little on this thread and I apologize for what it's worth and hope there are no hard feelings.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
This isn't a stunt. It's a speech on foreign policy and it will happen again. Those are his views and have been his views.
Hinz isn't rabidly anti-McCain. But he (like most posters) doesn't like it when someone becomes disruptive. I'm trying my best to prod you away from becoming disruptive rather than watching the wolves circle again.
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I'm trying my best to prod you away from becoming disruptive rather than watching the wolves circle again.
The above is much appreciated. As to the wolves circling again...so be it...I don't get the purge mentality of some here when someone dissents from the approved orthodoxy here. I've said it before...If McCain and his supporters can't stand up to the criticisms and deal with the dissidents to his candidacy, he shouldn't be in politics.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
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I will say that I have never worked or volunteered for the campaign in any capacity. Politics is a hobby for me, not a career. :)
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I don't like that stuff either, but this isn't anything new from Senator McCain.
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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
I have no words for that.
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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
lies must be challenged every time they are repeated
or the historical news will be that we surrendered
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
just like the rest of us, and are susceptible to error.
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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
I blame it ultimately on the press and campaign finance "reform." The new rules that require 24/7 fundraising would have scared off even Reagan.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
I blame the open primaries allowing "independents" and "moderates" (aka Democrats) to select our candidate.
Ultimately they will return to the Democrat party from wince they came once the general is underway.
Lastly starting the primaries with liberal states didn’t help much either.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Like SC? IA? NH? MI? FL? What the most "liberal" of the early states was a Kerry +3 state. I count 4 swing states and a bright red one... and McCain won the bright red one in a closed primary.
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the actual order was IA, NH, MI, FL, SC...which puts the bright red state DFL! The Dem and Ind crossover vote in all four of those other earlier states was well documented. By the SC primary, we had already begun to lose candidates, and the momentum had been built -- built on non-conservative-non-Republican voters.
But ignoring Iowa since it was a caucus state...
NH: Was a tie between two candidates on the strictly Republican vote (within 1% for McCain and Romney).
MI: Which had the highest crossover voting due to the Dem primary not counting there and that State *didn't* go to McCain, among Republicans or generally. It was a blue state that went to Romney.
SC: Which was actually the next in line was a definite red State where there was another tie in the Republican vote (within 1% for McCain and Huck).
Florida: The first closed primary went to McCain... and self-identified Republicans (not just registered per the requirement) tied evenly between McCain and Romney.
From there McCain tended to dominate most of the primaries from then on.
By Super Tuesday one could see a pattern among States McCain was winning... he was winning larger margins of self-identified Republicans and tying with Romney among self-identified conservatives.
Them's the facts. Did the independents and moderates and other crossovers help? Certainly. And they are very likely to help in the general as well given the polling trends over the last few months.
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- "Make love not war? Real men can do both!"
Iowa you can at least argue about because it's an evenly partisan state.
But NH is now one of the most liberal states in the Union! And it's GOP electorate is more liberal than the GOP electorate in even blue states such as CA. It's a *joke* that NH is our first Primary!
The first "reform" we should institute as a Party for the 2012 election is to dump NH *way down* the list of Primaries.
SC would be a decent first choice. Or some place like MO. Or even AZ or NV. But no way in heck should NH be our first Primary anymore!
(Threadjack over...)
McCain won IA?
I thought Romney won Michigan?? My memory is not what it used to be but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong!
:>)
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
and think before spouting off.
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I doubt McCain cares what conservatives think of him. He knows he's already got our vote because we really have no other choice.
I believe....
McCain won the nomination because of all the centrist democrats/independents that voted for him. The rest of us (most Republicans) voted for other candidates (those of us who actually got the opportunity to vote for our first candidate of choice).
Had the democrats put up some better candidates (that aren't so far to the left) Hillary and Obama would have been finished a long time ago and McCain wouldn't be our nominee because the true Republicans would have had more of an effect in our own race.
He can take comfort knowing he's got our vote because we keep dutifully keep coughing it up every time a Nixon/Ford/GHW Bush/Dole/McCain get's shoved down our throats.
I've gotten off the "Send a message" bandwagon...but I'm not sure how much more of this I can stand!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
No one "shoved" McCain down your throat any more than W was shoved down our throat in 2000. You lost the primary. It happens. Voters choose the guy with the military background, with the experience, without the record of tax hikes and liberal economic policy, and with a record of fighting Big Government and earmarks.
How much more of what? McCain repeated his same positions. If that upsets you, then stop watching the news. I guarantee you he will do that again. He'll do it on the War, on Gitmo, on judges, on earmarks, on taxes, on AGW, on other foreign policy issues, etc.
______________________________________
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I have HUGE policy problems with him...it's not about winning or losing for me!
To say otherwise is simply an attempt to dismiss me and my opinions!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
I think you guys need to self-impose a time out for posting to each other. You always seem to devolve to the point where someone gets pissy.
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
I like Adam...We disagree but I like the guy!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Seeing you two at each others' throats gets very tiresome.
You don't agree.
Let's leave it there.
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
LOL...I'm not at Adam's throat any more than he's at mine. We disagree...I've learned a lot from talking and debating him and have no animosity whatsoever toward him. I hope the feeling is mutual from him.
I won't be censored and I don't believe I should be asked to any more than I would expect Adam to be were our positions reversed.
I also know he feels the same way and has said as much.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Or the one without ?
*Star Trek TOS EP: The Alternative Factor
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
I'm pretty much the only reason ace isn't banned right now. And I'm going to continue to try to save him from himself on that front. It seems to be McCain threads where he is tempted to be disruptive. In other areas, he's been a good contributor.
______________________________________
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Can we address the destructive accusation? I've never intended to be destructive.
I don't see how pointing out your candidates flaws is destructive. As I've said before, you can't fix a problem if you can't identify it. It's easy to close your eyes to obvious problems and act like they don't exist. I've done it with Bush Tom Delay and our Republican Congresses since 1994. Ignoring the problems is a large reason for 2006.
Just the way I see it!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
and the difference is important.
"Ignoring the problems is a large reason for 2006."
This we agree on. In fact, it's a large part of why I choose McCain in the primary. He was the only one with a record of fighting Rs who are corrupt earmarkers.
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See simpson we can be agreeable...LOL
He was the only one with a record of fighting Rs who are corrupt earmarkers.
We can agree on this as well...This alone almost makes him pl,atable....but not quite
:>)
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
"This alone almost makes him pl,atable....but not quite"
you just had to get that "but-monkey" in there.
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
In the immortal words of Shakespeare, "To thine own self be true:.
I just can't help myself...LOL
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Does that mean he wants one that goes further? Or one that is more fair and actually includes countries like India, China, and Russia.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
He'll get China ande India to sign on by screwing America!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
He referenced India and China needed to be included on any new Kyoto.
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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
he said it today.
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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
watered down that it won't matter. Viva India! and red china
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
There is such a thing as international good citizenship. We need to be good stewards of our planet and join with other nations to help preserve our common home. The risks of global warming have no borders. We and the other nations of the world must get serious about substantially reducing greenhouse gas emissions in the coming years or we will hand off a much diminished world to our grandchildren. We need a successor to the Kyoto Treaty, a cap-and trade system that delivers the necessary environmental impact in an economically responsible manner. We Americans must lead by example and encourage the participation of the rest of the world, including most importantly, the developing economic powerhouses of China and India.
Link (pdf warning)
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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
We Americans must lead by example and encourage the participation of the rest of the world, including most importantly, the developing economic powerhouses of China and India.
so we will lead (read CUT emissions and tax the people) and encourage India and China to do the same. Well thought out plan.
Coming through, watch out, moving goal posts here....
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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
....so that is good. The international left won't allow China and India to be included.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
We Americans must lead by example and encourage the participation of the rest of the world, including most importantly, the developing economic powerhouses of China and India.
He said we need to "encourage" India and China. I assume that means we'll encourage China, like we did after Tiennamin Square....ie giving them most favored nation trading status.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
has just said exactly what I felt about McCain's anti-Russian attitude in his speech. I don't know what he expects to accomplish with uncalled-for antagonism.
Operation Chaos on himself to level the playing field. I will still vote for Senator McCain (grudgingly), and I hope he wins, but I want him to win with only a thin margin. I don't want him to have a large mandate to govern, because he simply does not deserve it. He could seize this unique moment in time and become a truly great president, but he's stuck on stupid in his embrace of his fair weather lib friends. I have thoroughly enjoyed General Limbaugh's Operation Chaos campaign, but I think he needs to call for a cease-fire since Commander McCain doesn't want his help. Whatever you do, VOTE A STRAIGHT REPUBLICAN TICKET FOR CONGRESS AND GOVERNORS!
Tim Schieferecke
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
would be to delay choosing a running mate until after the Democratic convention. Then there would only be about 2 1/2 months to go before the general election and he'd have an advantage over whatever the Democrats come up with after a long summer of fatiguing the electorate.
If he goes left with a Graham or Liberman...I', out
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
I need that bumper sticker...
It's thoroughly depressing. I have a 'whatever' attitude about November this year. Either way we still end up with a weevil.
I was using it during the primary, but it seems to fit your situation now
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Was that from Brewster's Millions?
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Classic movie.
Ironically the site that I found the pictures on was trying to say that the billboard was applicable to our field of candidates. I think a better application would be to politicians in general...the premise of the movie if I'm not mistaken. I wish Hollywood could go back to that concept.
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
But alas that would require them giving up their fantasies of dancing through a field of flowers, (que music from love story), with the wind blowing through their flowing hair into Fidel's arms and falling in a heap at Chairman Mao's feet as they worship in adoration!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Seriously! Why does the phrase "We should listen to our allies" cause such an evisceral reaction? It's simply being respectful and accepting that SOMETIMES other countries have something to offer the US? The rest of the world perceives that we don't much care about their opinions and that makes it harder when the US wants something in return. Its not a matter of "Begging".
And why does a League of Democracies all of a sudden fall apart if America takes other countries opinions into account? If the Brits tell us that our postwar planning scenario is not likely to work in Iraq, maybe we should have taken a second look. They do have some experience with the region. You're being foolish if you think we could create a League of Democracies and expect to wield absolute authority over it like a Democratic Empire. Why would other countries join an organization that was just going to mobilized to serve US interests? It's a give and take!
The issue of Gitmo is challenging and I personally would not get rid of it. But come on, you seriously think that there is not one single innocent person in Gitmo? Someone who was in the wrong place at the wrong time? And IF there is not one single person who is innocent in the entire prison, why not try these people according to Military Tribunal system? Almost like what McCain is advocating!
As for the global warming stuff, its all just to make the Europeans happy. Global warming is a big issue for them, he's already caveated by saying China and India would need to sign up for any agreement which they won't, so why needlessly poke European leaders in the eye over global warming when we can reap the benefits of being "with them" on the issue without having the consequences of actually acting? Terrorism isn't everyone's number one issue, just deal with that!!
Blair and followed his request that we seek a SECOND, redundant, "authorization" from the UN that allowed Saddam to prepare the insurgency and allowed his oil for food allies to vote against the obvious import of the FIRST authorization.
Bush did consult.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
fyi
the UN is an anti-freedom dictators club
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Yeah but McCain agrees with the Democrats that Bush committed America to go it alone...I guess that settles the argument!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
want to close it?
get real man
its part of the ongoing slander of the US sans ANY evidence
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
I seem to recall that of all the detainees that have been released from Gitmo, about a third of them get caught again and returned to Gitmo.
This whole story about innocents being in Gitmo is an urban legend. If John McCain wants my vote he'd best stop with this nonsense, else I'm going to be forced to write in Ronald Reagan come Nov. 4.
---
Finrod's First Law of Bandwidth:
A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it takes the bandwidth of ten thousand.
I could care less about Europe "liking" us or not. They lack the leadership to effectively govern themselves, and after the Oil For Food debacle exposed France and Russia's complicity, they can stick it where the sun don't shine. Do you know how much the global warming "stuff" done to "make the Europeans happy" will cost us? It's hard for me to accept that Senator McCain stands for lower taxes when he advocates for cap and trade bullspit.
Tim Schieferecke
I'm not the one who interprets his words to be some sort of slight of hand. What proof do you have that he really doesn't mean what he says? Why are you being retarded?
Tim Schieferecke
If elected McCain would be Commander in Chief of the United States of America...It's insane to say that the CIC of the US should have to go hat in hand to the socialist states of Europe and beg them to allow us to defend ourselves. If the following from his speech doesn't at least make you squirm you need help:
Today we are not alone. There is the powerful collective voice of the European Union, and there are the great nations of India and Japan, Australia and Brazil, South Korea and South Africa, Turkey and Israel, to name just a few of the leading democracies. There are also the increasingly powerful nations of China and Russia that wield great influence in the international system.
In such a world, where power of all kinds is more widely and evenly distributed, the United States cannot lead by virtue of its power alone.
"In such a world, where power of all kinds is more widely and evenly distributed, the United States cannot lead by virtue of its power alone."?
Hey Johny boy...I've got an idea...How about continuing to ensure that the USA continues to be the most Powerful nation on the face of the earth? You keep mouthing platitudes about being a "Foot soldier in the Reagan Revolution"....Did you EVER here Reagan talk about power being evenly distributed? Did you notice he included China and Russia as nations that are part of this "even" distribution of power?
Sorry if I sound like I'm ranting but I'm to busy ranting to notice!
:>)
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Half-Truth
Jim Manzi, National Review Online, March 26, 2008Carbon dioxide is greenhouse gas, and if you put more of it in the atmosphere, then all else equal, the Earth will get warmer. The key unknown, because of the complexities of climate feedbacks, is how much warmer. The U.N. IPCC forecasts that Earth will get something less than 3C hotter within about a century, and further estimates that 4C of warming would cause the world to lose one to five percent of GDP; therefore the expected costs of global warming are on the order of three percent of GDP sometime well into the 22nd century. This is a huge amount of money, but not exactly consistent with Miami becoming an underwater theme park. Given that global consumption is projected to grow from about $6,600 per person per year today to about $40,000 per person per year over the next century, it’s pretty hard to justify massive sacrifice of wealth today for the purpose of preventing our descendants a hundred years from now being only 5.7 times, instead of 6 times, as rich as we are. The real risk is that science has radically understated the greenhouse effect. A carbon tax designed for the expected case can safely be avoided for decades, while a carbon tax high enough to ameliorate a low-odds disaster scenario would be insanely expensive. Relatively low-cost investments in specific technologies that would be useful if such a disaster scenario arose, on the other hand, are a smart insurance policy.
"Austere, intolerant, well-armed, and blood-thirsty, in their own regions the Wahhabis are a distinct factor which must be taken into account" - Winston Churchill, 1921
Carbon dioxide levels follow warming, not the other way around. You're a fool if you believe many here will buy your reference to the IPCC as scientifically credible instead of politically convenient. Where's the warming been this winter moderich? Pray tell. You might try looking up at that glowing ball in the sky if you want real answers about warming.
Tim Schieferecke
Northern ice takes a big hit in 2007
Ned Rozell, Anchorage Daily News, December 23, 2007The ice loss in 2007, 23% greater than the previous record in 2005, has some scientists here predicting that the northern sea ice will vanish in summer as soon as five years from now ... John Walsh of the International Arctic Research Center in Fairbanks was, along with Perovich, one of four scientists facing reporters from all over the world. Walsh spoke of how warmer water from the Atlantic has been entering the Arctic Ocean. "Were really moving into record territory in the last four or five years," Walsh said, citing the work of the research center's Igor Polyakov, who coordinates an annual Arctic Ocean scientific cruise.
Also, please see related my blog entries:
An honest conversation on Global Warming
An honest conversation on GW (pt. 2)
"Austere, intolerant, well-armed, and blood-thirsty, in their own regions the Wahhabis are a distinct factor which must be taken into account" - Winston Churchill, 1921
The below is a cropped image of the Arctic ice you refer to.
NOT ONLY THAT YOU KNEW OF THIS BEFORE YOU MADE THE ABOVE POST
You are being at best horribly disingenuous and misleading.
Your actual article is from a dec 12 conference implying at best early December figures.
At a press conference here Dec. 12, scientists revealed that the ice on top of the northernmost ocean took a punch in the summer of 2007 that might be a knockout blow.
Corrected link
http://www.adn.com/life/story/245108.html
The arrogance astounding.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
The graph shows the annual expansion of sea ice in the winter and loss in the summer. To understand how the net ice loss of 2007 compares to the years before, take a look at this chart. It too comes from the The Crysosphere Today page at Arctic Climate Research at the University of Illinois. Also, please realize that the scientists quoted in the artcile find support for global warming.
Perovich and his colleagues monitored a piece of sea ice off Alaska's coast on the Beaufort Sea this year, finding it was almost 11 feet thick in June but shrank to less than 2 feet thick by September. Ice seems to be at least 3 feet thinner than normal almost everywhere scientists have measured it.
"That missing meter of ice means the ice is more vulnerable," Steele said.
The loss of summer ice will happen soon unless things change drastically, the scientists said.
"Austere, intolerant, well-armed, and blood-thirsty, in their own regions the Wahhabis are a distinct factor which must be taken into account" - Winston Churchill, 1921
And it does not say what you think it does. Once again its not a global amount. Its the northern hemisphere chart.
And we have that this is dependent on the Atlantic Polar oscillation.
Good Job Is there anything that will get through to you or will you to continue to insist on this till you are buried under an avalanche.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I linked to a historical chart of the northern hemisphere precisely because you posted the Current Northern Hemisphere chart. (It's at the top of your chart in big, bold letters, in case you missed it.)
Your chart shows ice decreasing in the summer of 2007 and then increasing in the winter as is normal. What makes 2007 important is it confirms a decades-long regional warming that is happening three times as fast as the rest of the planet.
"Austere, intolerant, well-armed, and blood-thirsty, in their own regions the Wahhabis are a distinct factor which must be taken into account" - Winston Churchill, 1921
And yes if I gave a press conference making a prediction that mother nature chose to rain on, quickly, dramatically and conclusively I too would be trying to wipe egg off my face.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
FYI: Older ice is thicker by several feet
Researchers Say Arctic Sea Ice Still at Risk Despite Cold Winter
NASA, March 18, 2008Using the latest satellite observations, NASA researchers and others report that the Arctic is still on “thin ice” when it comes to the condition of sea ice cover in the region. A colder-than-average winter in some regions of the Arctic this year has yielded an increase in the area of new sea ice, while the older sea ice that lasts for several years has continued to decline.
... According to NASA-processed microwave data, whereas perennial ice used to cover 50-60% of the Arctic, this year it covers less than 30%. Very old ice that remains in the Arctic for at least six years comprised over 20% of the Arctic area in the mid to late 1980s, but this winter it decreased to just 6%.
"Austere, intolerant, well-armed, and blood-thirsty, in their own regions the Wahhabis are a distinct factor which must be taken into account" - Winston Churchill, 1921
Hey by your reasoning the globe must be cooling.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
But wait, that will upset people because it would not severely cripple those nations that have led the progress of civilization (USA, UK) for the past 200 years. Why is it when people mandate percentages of alternate energy sources, they don't count hydro-electric power in Washington state? Because that would mean that Wash state is already compliant, and would not get hurt financially.
I don't see protests in France about nuclear power (70+% nuclear). I hear people will still visit Paris without fearing for a nuclear meltdown. (Yes, they may fear Muslim violence whining about a movie claiming Islam is violent, but that's another thread.)
No, this CO2 stuff is strictly the world being anti-USA. Heck, all those "responsible" countries that signed Kyoto are not meeting the goals at all, while USA emissions have gone down on their own. Where are the compaints against Canada and the others?
Politicians decry the drop in manufacturing jobs in this country. They need only look at the ridiculous "green" laws to find the causes of the mfg jobs departure from USA. These same folks complain about becoming a service industry, but that's the only area that the greens have not attacked yet. Face it, all this technology (computers, internet, cell towers, etc.) takes POWER to run, so if you want to do your part, turn off the computer and cell phone and plasma TV. Try putting that plasma in the backyard and getting it to run using the sun.
-- A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Anyone care to change sides?
-- Saving baby whales and baby trees, but killing baby humans. Huh?
I know what Adam and Neil would say. Heck, I know what *I* would say.
But this global warming crap, the implicit declaration of torture, the nigh-on renouncement of unilateral action ... it's too much.
I'll shut up now, and let the world finish going crazy.
--
Gone 2500 years, still not PC.
I had previously said McCain was the right candidate for foreign policy. Now he's the only choice for just one very important part of foreign policy, and even that might be compromised by changing what we do with enemy combatants.
Today's speech reminded me why I didn't support McCain at the beginning of the primary. Somewhere along the line I got campaign amnesia, it's gone now.
I'm going to vote for McCain for ONE reason: Supreme Court justices.
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
as was mentioned earlier. I hope McCain's litmus test won't be McCain-Feingold alone but we don't really know.
Also, I'm wondering all over again why Democrats are trying to keep admonishing us over racial issues when the whole idea of abandoning Iraq seems to be condescending to Arabs en masse, as if their women's rights aren't as important as others', among many other considerations. It's usually liberals who say things like, "why don't we just let them kill each other?"
Adam C has a blog linked farther up with a list of McCain credentials in that area. Now I don't 100% believe that McCain will nominate the people we want, but at worst he'll nominate a moderate...which is better than say, another Justice Ginsberg.
Jon, Jon...it's the religion of peace! Haven't you heard? I'm sure once we pull out they'll sort themselves out. We need to be understanding of their viewpoint. /sarcasm
If Democrats applied logic, they'd be Republicans (or conservatives at least). If I had to guess, it's probably because we don't "owe" Arabs anything yet.
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
the dynamic would be entirely different.
As for SCOTUS, McCain might even find himself honestly misjudging a nominee, much as Eisenhower regretted nominating Earl Warren.
Indeed, but you have to admit that with McCain there is, at worst, a 10% chance he'll pick someone as left as Justice Ginsburg (spelled it wrong last time) or Souter.
For me this race has become the lesser of two evils...and John McCain is the lesser, no denying that.
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
You know it gets bad, when McCain starts to make Ron Paul look okay. Seriously, I prefer a true Republic, unilateral, America first, non-nation building foreign policy over this "lets please the world and save the world at the same time" vision of foreign affairs.
that is unlikely but technically possible would be if both parties give up on their presumptive nominees and give us Mike Gravel vs. Alan Keyes.
Might also push turnout down to single digits, too.
Hey man...How about we hold hands and go crazy together?
LOL
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Welcome to the ranks of the frustrated and disheartened among us David.
For those of you that want to see what he had to say you can see the full text of the speech here. It certainly reads better than it was delivered.
Talk about a boring speaker...the only thing that kept me from entering a coma like sleep while listening to it was the rage that built with each word.
It seems this November will not offer us a choice between the lesser of two evils but a choice between the Democrat and the other Democrat!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Operation Chaos. He said that Rush "had no right to interfere with the process". I just laughed and said, "well at least you get your choice between two socialists now, and one socialist vs a Democrat in November. I don't have a Republican to vote for now." At that, he actually laughed and agreed with me.
Tim Schieferecke
I had never heard this before, but the Dems are very unhappy that people would actually vote for one of their candidates.
-- A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Anyone care to change sides?
-- Saving baby whales and baby trees, but killing baby humans. Huh?
We have two college basketball teams right near us. They absolutely go head-to-head when they play local competitions - there is no love lost between them during the regular season. However, when one of the teams is in the sweet 16...guess what, the other team supports their efforts, victories and will celebrate with them.
I know you (and I) are not in the sweet 16, but it is time to move on and celebrate and SUPPORT the accomplishments of the other LOCAL team.
Erik
Good Analogy...or is it a Homily...I could never keep that straight.
I'm working on it...sure I'm a malcontent when it comes to McCain but it doesn't mean I don't have a point...and I don't know how it helps the Party or the Candidate to ignore the problems that are there and won't go away because we all agree to not acknowledge!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
That is the official policy of the US Government, and President Bush has publicly stated this several times.
"If all men were just, there would be no need of valor."
- Agesilaus
or maybe a cost-benefit thing.
I always thought the genius of Gitmo was that any escapee would have nowhere to go but the ocean or the minefields the Cubans have outside of the base perimeter.
Thanks for getting my blood pressure up...I'll not sleep tonight thanx to you...
LOL
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
If McCain picks a rock solid conservative for his VP, then I might, just might, vote for him. If he picks someone like himself then there is no way I can support him. Whoever he picks is most likely to be our nominee in 2016. If he picks some half-lib like himself, then we conservatives are in trouble until potentially 2024!!!
The other thing we need to do to prevent this from ever happening again is to move to a rotating primary system. Different states get to go first depending on their location and the percentage of the people that voted Republican in the last election. Other criteria may need to be used, but the ultimate goal is to not let liberal states that do things like allow libs to vote in our primaries determine the outcome of the nomination race.
I wish I could remember who made the suggestion that states go in order based on the order of Republican voters proportionate to the overall population. In other words, if State A has 605 of all registered voters registering as Republican, that state would go before a state with 52% Republican Registration. Open Primaries should be banned outright.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
didn't McCain win Texas going away?
___________________________________________________________
Molon Labe!
Yeah..He walked away with Texas...after being declared the winner and nominee a month before...and after dozens of Republicans switched sides to vote for Hillary after Rush and Laura pulled their strings!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
McCain had it won and did not need their help. Also, polls show "operation chaos" is really an illusion. Many Repubs voted for Obama because they can not stand Hillary. This stuff was decided before the pastor Wright stuff.
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Molon Labe!
We have set a bad example to the world and alienated allies by endorsing torture and incarcerating suspected terrorists at Gitmo without providing them due process. We are a better country than that. I applaud McCain for wanting to uphold the Constitution, American and Christian values, and our country's honor.
I haven't been a big fan of McCain (for many other reasons) but this speech encouraged me. I'm warming up to him.
"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
By torture, I assume you mean waterboarding. Right? Well, it is easy to sit here and condemn that technique when nothing is on the line. However, if waterboarding some terrorist would have given us the intelligence to save all of those people on 9/11, then I am all for it.
My personal opinion is that waterboarding should be safe, legal, and rare (something about that sounds familiar, but I'm not sure). It is something we should only do on extremely high value targets and in ticking time bomb scenarios.
I don't have a problem using even more aggressive interrogation techniques with these terrorists. Why? Well, they seem to have this nasty habit of cecapitating their prisoners alive so I don't think we are going to entice them to play nice.
Good Post...have you ever noticed that most of the people who want to end torture, (I'm not including McCain here), are the very people who accused Bush of not connecting the dots before 911.
Put an other way, the very people who were criticizing Bush for failing to connect the dots are now erasing the dots and are doing everything they can to stop us from finding the dots in the first place!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
to round up suspects who have not been afforded due process and convicted of a crime, throw them in a prison off the American mainland, and torture them.
McCain is right to challenge those misguided policies.
"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
you do not know what you are talking about. YOu keep attacking but failed to answer any question posed to you. I am done with you, and you will be banned sooner or later (just a prediction).
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Molon Labe!
Why is it that if someone posts comments that oppose Gitmo or torture they are threatened with being banned? Would Redstate ban John McCain if he posted his comments about those topics?
And I didn't attack. I said I supported McCain's concerns about US policies.
"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
in the US. They were captured in a battle area during their involvement in an insurgent (AKA guerilla, AKA ILLEGAL) war against US Forces. Habeus Corpus is guaranteed by our government and Constitution ONLY to persons found violating the law in the US. They call them 'Enemy Combatants', not criminals, for a very good and legal reason. Your apparent desire to make everyone in the world a citizen of the US with a right to US legal protections in accordance with US law governing actions taken within the confines of the US does not make it so.
to turn lead into gold, grind up children to feed to cats, or yell fire in a crowded theater.
Lacking legality is among the many reasons we don't do those things.
We don't "round up suspects": we capture them, as we can, instead of killing them summarily, on foreign soil.
"Suspects" are never afforded due process; that's what they are about to be given. Part of that due process is the slow grind of the court system, slowed to a crawl by the need to be sure they're guilty and to extract information from them without resorting to the quick expedience of torture.
We don't torture people. I will wager we never have, not at Gitmo, not at Abu Ghraib, not in some CIA hideout. Even though I think there are times when it is theoretically justified, I don't think we have reached those times yet.
The people at Gitmo are enemy combatants, not American citizens. If they were American citizens, they should be tried for treason in the proper setting for that. Our courts do not have jurisdiction over acts foreigners commit on soil not our own. Hence, Gitmo, and the military tribunal system, which affords enemy combatants an incredibly liberal (in the original sense) set of rights.
By saying that we don't have the authority and it's wrong, you imply that we do it. McCain does the same thing, and it's just as harmful, as well as silly and stupid, when he does it.
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Gone 2500 years, still not PC.
The CIA has admitted to using waterboarding two or three times...I can't remember which. If you consider that torture, then they have tortured.
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
Though I understand why you (and certainly Senator McCain) think it is torture, and I do not think it should be our first, second or third resort, I do think it should be a weapon in our arsenal.
"Torture" leaves a mark.
"Torture" has a certain connotation: inflicting pain, without regard to the welfare of its object, whether the person lives or dies except as a matter of timing and usefulness.
"Torture" is used in order to extract information which we know will be useless anyway, as a means toward the humiliation of its object.
"Torture" is used to extract a confession or a list of names, the validity of which is not our concern.
"Torture" connotes cruelty, taking sport with its victims to make an example of them. Its means are exposed and trumpeted as a weapon of fear against especially a wider body of civilians subject to capture. Its purposes are discipline and punishment, rather than information extraction.
All of these connotations ride along with the use of the word, and the more Senator McCain uses it the more I think he's doing it purposefully in order to draw attention to his personal credibility for political gain.
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Gone 2500 years, still not PC.
I wasn't sure where you fell on that issue.
I also don't agree that we should outlaw torture. It certainly has its usefulness in some extreme circumstances.
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
Great definitions of Tortute
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
The Geneva Conventions define enemy combatants very specifically. In fact...had the military decided to...under the Geneva Conventions...They could have executed all of the Enemy Combatants they picked up on the field of battle that were caught fighting in civilian dress on the spot!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Folks can disagree with me but why the insults ("stupid", "silly"). Apparently, John McCain agrees with me. Is he stupid and silly?
If you disagree with me, fine. I respect that. But please disagree with some style and grace.
Some of those detained in Gitmo were children under the age of 15 and are afforded some legal protections. Also, the US has supported international agreements banning torture. So there is legal support for McCain's arguments.
"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
But it seems some here don't share that Christian value. Again, feel free to disagree but I would respectfully request you refrain from hurling pejoratives like "stupid" and "silly."
"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
_you would probably be banned at this point. I said it was stupid to say Iraq is getting worse when all the news says otherwise. I did not call you stupid, and said the argument was stupid. If the argument had any merit at all, I would not have been so abrupt.
You should really stop this line and try to talk about things you agree with us on, that way we will know you are not a troll, and just a conservative/libertarian with a few unpopular views on this site.
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Molon Labe!
Please try to use "Reply To This" so that your comments will flow with the discussion that you are involved in.
It makes it easier for all of us.
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
silly, though that may in fact be a minor distinction...... And yes, to answer your other question, I do indeed think McCain holds some pretty silly positions in more than one area.
And though he opposes torture, or anything apparently that maybe just about anyone, anywhere, however unwitting, might consider as maybe having some distant relationship with torture, or may have the same number of letters as the number of letters in the word torture, or distantly reminds him that the concept of torture does indeed exist in the world, he does NOT confuse enemy combatants with US criminals.
McCain is the guy our party put up and who knows what the Democrats are thinking. The point is that McCain is smart enough to say what the undecided folks want to hear so he can be expected to tailor his speeches to have the strongest impact on them. I believe most of them are a bit more moderate then those of us on Red State. McCain knows that he has us in his pocket if for no other reason than Obama and Clinton. He needs the swing vote to win and he is playing for that. You have to look at his past record to get any idea how he will govern if he gets elected. As I have said before, you can't believe anything you hear coming out of a politician's mouth during a campaign. It isn't right but that is the way it is. McCain wasn't my first choice but then again I can't come up with a better choice as it stands now. Who knows, some of our best Presidents were not expected to be much before they got to the oval office...
is why I despise John McCain.
I have not decided how I will vote and don't intend to announce my decision when I do. But I have not intention of concealing my contempt for McCain.
I would really be enjoying the slow motion Democrat train wreck this season if I were not so ambivalent about the pathetic choice I am faced with in November no matter which RAT crawls out of the wreckage.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
...in the next four years. The one that says,
Don't blame me, I voted for Fred.
"After two years in Washington, I often long for the realism and sincerity of Hollywood." -Fred Dalton Thompson
But you can bet every time he pokes me in the eye or stabs me in the back he'll be eviscerated with my pen.
"After two years in Washington, I often long for the realism and sincerity of Hollywood." -Fred Dalton Thompson
From now til the general I expect McCain to take on most of the Hillary-Obama positions.
He wants the only contrast to be that he is the more mature white guy running. It's probably clever.
What he'll actually do in office is anybody's guess. In some areas he's got great intentions; in others he's quasi radical.
But I expect so little from him. He seems to have no interest in the details of administration.
The VP is going to be critical and he needs a policy wonk. A show pony like Mitt isn't going to work. I say we need the guy who actually wrote Fred's position papers.
if it's true that to be elected President today one has to emulate the race-hating, women-hating, children-hating, morally bankrupt ultra-liberals.
"After two years in Washington, I often long for the realism and sincerity of Hollywood." -Fred Dalton Thompson
First of all, good blog as always.
I have two questions for you, though.
You say above "not the hat-in-hand pleading with the international community discussed by Sen McCain."
I didn't get hat in hand pleading from John's description. I find it hard to picture John McCain hat-in-hand pleading under any circumstances anyway, but I certainly saw nothing in his speech that would lead to this characterization. What am I missing?
"... now the good senator wants to go BEYOND Kyoto with an even more draconian agreement."
I've said many times at Redstate I'm not all that up to speed on the Global Warming issue. Are you saying that cap and trade is inherently more draconian? Or does McCain have an outline for a Kyoto successor that is noticeably more draconian? I ask because within the context of the speech it doesn't seem that one must conclude because he chooses to call something Kyoto's successor it therefore will be much worse. Could it not be much better, more lax, more fair etc?
absentee
I will definitely vote for McCain as a bad choice among worse ones. He can calculate on that.
But no candidate or Party espousing the positions noted above will get my money or my efforts. (And if the Adam C.’s of the world think there is just cause to criticize that I’ll give a thoughtful ear to the argument, but right now I can’t see any duty which lays claim on those commitments).
For that, Sir John can rely upon all the enthusiasts who want to close Gitmo, condemn American policy as torture, conduct foreign policy by moralistic symbolism, join the church of global warming, along with other Dem policies, and at the same time vigorously prosecute the war in Iraq, cut taxes and spending, in combination with other traditionally Republican policies.
Will there be fiery potency in the Maverick Coalition? Time will tell. As for me: Bleh!
Just don't expect people to support your guy next time. A lot of people who had problems with Bush supported him because he was the better choice. It's a coalition. There is a primary where everyone gets to pick their top choice and try to win over others. Then the coalition comes together to win as a coalition.
I disagree with McCain on some things and I disagreed with Bush on some things. In fact, I will always disagree with my candidate on some things. It's a whole package. If you disagree with everything (or most things), then I understand sitting out.
What befuddles me is that many people seem to be seeking out the 1-5 things they disagree with McCain on rather than balancing that with the scores of things they agree on. His talk on the economy focused on personal responsibility and not bailing out bad decision makers. His tax policy is for lowering taxes further. His spending policy is better than any recent President. He voted against some of Bush's excesses (i.e. Prescription Drug Bribe and pork bills). He is steadfast on the war and supporting our troops. He has a solid record on judges. He's pro-life.
It's a whole package. Take it or leave it.
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What befuddles me is that many people seem to be seeking out the 1-5 things they disagree with McCain on rather than balancing that with the scores of things they agree on.
The problem is, it's nowhere near that imbalanced for me. The ratio of the issues I agree with McCain to the issues I disagree with McCain barely hits 2:1. By comparison, with W it's more like 3:1 or 4:1, Rudy 6:1, Reagan or Fred 10:1, even Bush Sr. was more like 2.5:1.
Sure, the equivalent ratios on the Dem side are along the lines of Obama 1:50, Hillary 1:30, Nader and Kucinich 1:inf, but that doesn't really help me feel any better about that 2:1.
---
Finrod's First Law of Bandwidth:
A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it takes the bandwidth of ten thousand.
Perhaps I will make a blog entry to elaborate on this question of who McCain is counting on for campaign enthusiasm. But before I refer to our exchange in such a blog I wish to make sure that your reply is not a result of a too cursory reading of my point above.
When you talk of ‘expecting support’ do you indeed intend to refer not to our vote, but rather to our campaign contributions, whether financial, promotional, etc.? Is the failure to give money, etc. what you call “sitting out?” Is the fact that my vote is vouchsafed but my money and efforts are not sufficient justification for you lecture me to “take it or leave it?”
Was Reagan’s successful Republican coalition built up from people who strongly opposed him (and each other) on certain major issues while agreeing with him on others? Or did it join various parties of interest who weren’t strongly opposed, politically or philosophically, to each other’s interests?
IMO, a key to successful coalition building involves the latter and that’s what raises my question about the Maverick Coalition. Sen. McCain is opposing me on some of my major issues of interest. He is also supporting me on others. I don’t yet understand how it is that you can refer to that as a coalition strategy, but even if we call it that, by what reason may we expect it to be a successful one?
You correctly point out that he won the nomination. In that case perhaps you are confident that there are enthusiastic Republicans, Moderates, Independents and Democrats who will coalesce around his policy prescriptions and enthusiastically pony up for his campaign. But then why disparage me for not giving to the man who is attacking my interests. Is it because people like me have been the financial and promotional base of the Republican Party? Is there a worry that the new people who will coalesce around the new platform will not pony up like I have?
Again, maybe I do owe Sir John and his supporters my financial and promotional efforts for his campaign. By your initial threatening tone it seems you think so. But I still don’t get it. I’m not a political ideologue or perfectionist. I’ve contributed to President Bush and his Republican Party all along, but I also “disagreed with Bush on some things.” You want me to conclude that it is all the same with McCain, that I am just fixated on some less important issues that I don’t like about him. Perhaps so, but here’s a significant difference even if it is still perception-based. When I disagreed with President Bush’s decisions I could still understand his thought processes in a way that left me trusting he shared my interests/values. Not so with Sen. McCain. And since I can’t make sense of his thinking, I’m left with the feeling that he opposes my interests/values. So I will vote for him as the lesser of evils, but I can’t bring myself to spend my efforts against my own interests/values. And I don’t see how I could fairly expect anyone to do that. Isn’t it just a kind of rational behavior that we expect from people, not to have enthusiasm for acting against their own interests?
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
I like the third paragraph...I hope it's enough....time will tell!
BTW
The apoplexy of me and others isn't so much the whole package but on many points in his speech. you've got to admit there are some troubling issues that he is bringing up.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
1. Did I vote for Richard Nixon?
2. Did I vote for Gerald Ford?
3. Did I vote for George H. W. Bush?
4. Did I vote for Bob Dole?
5. (ESPECIALLY THIS ONE) Did I vote for George W. Bush?
If you answered "yes" to one or more of the above questions, and now say you won't vote for McCain because he is too liberal, you are indeed a hypocrite.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
than GHW Bush, Dole, or the current Bush. I don't recall any of the them going as far toward internationalism and Kyoto as this speech.
I plan on voting for McCain, as the lesser evil, but this speech is gravely disappointing. I wish Romney hadn't given up so early.
But on fiscal issues, he's much more conservative than Bush, Dole, or Bush. On social issues he's probably similar to Dole and Bush 41. And on foreign policy, it's hard to compare sometimes. We face a different threat and a different world environment. But it's hard for me to see Bush 41 standing up against the vast majority of the country on global warming if the issue existed then.
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McCain is far more conservative than Nixon, too. Nixon gave us the EPA, wage & price controls, and he even pitched universal health care before he resigned.
Gerald Ford was openly pro-choice.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
Each of the men on that list were more conservative on some points and less conservative on others...each had their good and bad points but were unified in one thing...they didn't represent a large amount of what the vast majority of their party believed and were horrible candidates...McCain is only starting out and we'll see how this race progresses...but it's not a good start as far as I'm concerned!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
So you think folks should have voted for Humphrey, Wallace, or McGovern?
Carter?
Dukakis?
Slick Willy/ H Ross?
Gore or Kerry?
Maybe just maybe folks are getting tired of this system that gives us such wonderful choices, are sick of folks who say sure I suck/am not what you want but those folks are really evil (and that is true they are). Maybe they lack any hope that it will ever change 1 Reagan every 100 years is not a lot of proof that it
We have a two-party system, and that isn't going to change.
We also live in a pluralistic society, like it or not, and you rarely, if ever, get to vote for someone who is perfect in your view. That's life. Get over it.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
And Campaigns crippled by McCain.
Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone. --Mitt Romney
1. Did I vote for Richard Nixon? NO, I voted against McGovern
2. Did I vote for Gerald Ford? NO, I voted against Carter (and Ford was from MI)
3. Did I vote for George H. W. Bush? Against Dukakis and Clinton
4. Did I vote for Bob Dole? Against Clinton
5. (ESPECIALLY THIS ONE) Did I vote for George W. Bush? The first time, against Gore -- the second time -- YES!
That is my point. I want the Republican Party to give me someone to vote FOR!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
that does a good job of articulating my thoughts.
I definitely won't vote for any loon on the left and that includes Algore or any other rabbit they might try to pull out of their hat if the 2 leading candidates either implode or kill each other (that might be nice).
But my vote for McCain is contingent on my not seeing, listening to, or hearing about him from now until election day. He's like democracy as a form of government - worst except as compared to all the rest.
And now I know how those Kerry nuts feel. I'm still driving around with Fred stickers on my cars. It's as close as I can get to giving them all the finger.
You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.
And now I know how those Kerry nuts feel. I'm still driving around with Fred stickers on my cars. It's as close as I can get to giving them all the finger.
I love it!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
overall to hear this sort of talk coming out of McCain. This sort of we need to listen and hear Europe's side is something I expect from Obama or the Witch, not from JMac. I expect the man whose been running as a hawk to remain that way, and this mealy mouthing on closing Gitmo and repairing America's image so that the Europeans will like us is utter cr*p. What happened to American exceptionalism? What happened to the City on the Hill, shining its light to the rest of the world? What about the idea that America is a great nation, one that leads through the difficult times? Europe has a history of turning a blind eye to terror and fascism, and we have a history of fighting evil. We persuade Europe, not the other way around-all all this talk about innocents in Gitmo is just spouting Left wing taking points. Stuff like this makes me lust for Rudy and Mitt-Mitt again, and I believe I have been one of McCains most vocal supporters since getting the nomination.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.Let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."-Barry Goldwater
McCain/Rudy 08-kill the terrorists and punch the hippies.
It was the assertion that this is somehow "new" or telling conservatives to "go to hell" that I thought was incorrect.
"lust for Rudy and Mitt-Mitt again"
I will note that Mitt was not solid on the War. He hedged a lot early in the campaign, thinking that he might have to call for withdrawal or other politically expedient policies in the general.
McCain is solid on the goal (winning) and if he wants to give ground on other issues to help achieve that goal, I think we should consider the trade-off. If cap-and-trade concessions and putting terrorists in the military tribunal system would help re-establish support for the greater War on Terror, that might be a strategic choice that makes sense. If it doesn't win over any trust, then it might be futile.
But it is important to remember that McCain is patriotic enough to remain focused on the goal (what is best for the US) rather than think the goal is appeasing others.
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candidates even run at all. Yes, all the candidates had major flaws that make Dubya look like Lincoln!
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
But part of the reason I moved to Mitt and not sticking with Rudy was to keep the coalition together. McCains number one sttrength to me has been the war. I see no value in appeasing others when our methods are working and Americans see us winning again. I have no doubt in my mind that we would have never heard this type of appeasement from Rudy, who really could care less what anyone thinks when it comes to supporting America and winning the War. I don't want to make people feel good-I want to win this war and the next one. McCain will win this one, but I'm worried about whether he'lll stand as the hawk he's running as, or whether he's going to capitulate to Europe before defending America if there needs to be war again.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.Let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."-Barry Goldwater
McCain/Rudy 08-kill the terrorists and punch the hippies.
He will remain a hawk on the war. He knows the stakes are far too high for that.
What I see him doing right now is mending some fences, stitching some wounds, and trying to make the case for John McCain, not Bush-lite or GWB's 3rd term.
This is frustrating for us, but it has to happen.
Patience and a little faith. We have a long marathon to run.
"trying to make the case for John McCain, not Bush-lite or GWB's 3rd term. This is frustrating for us, but it has to happen."
That's going to be hard for Bush die-hards to swallow, but it's also necessary to have any chance in 2008.
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I know that I'm going to vote for Johnny Mac. The stakes, as ytou said, are way too high. I am just slowly losing my drive to be happy about it when I read stuff like this. I keep waiting for the streetfight to begin, and I'm starting to get anxious. I'm wondering if McCain has it in him to slug it out with the Clintons and O. They both are going to get in the gutter, and all he'd done so far is talk about how much he respects them. Is this what I have to look forawrd to? Smacking JMac around and him saying thank you, may I have another? I'm a streetfighter by political nature, and I know McCain isn't, but dear God, it won't kill him to throw a punch every now and then. All the mealy mouthed appeasement is making me sick. One more day until drinking day tho....
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.Let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."-Barry Goldwater
McCain/Rudy 08-kill the terrorists and punch the hippies.
We are going to have to do most of the street fighting. And we knew it. This is a long marathon. Do not panic.
You and I are a rare breed. (as well as a few others) We are confrontational fighters and that is why they will never let us near the nukes. Most folks are passive, go along to get along types. We have to have them all.
More later, I have to go to the Elementary Art Gallery now.
I've got my own art gallery on the refigerator! We've been getting into fingerpainting lately :-)
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.Let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."-Barry Goldwater
McCain/Rudy 08-kill the terrorists and punch the hippies.
I'm wondering if McCain has it in him to slug it out with the Clintons and O. They both are going to get in the gutter, and all he'd done so far is talk about how much he respects them. Is this what I have to look forward to? Smacking JMac around and him saying thank you, may I have another?
When I bring up Dole this is exactly what I'm talking about...Let's hope McCain wakes up to the disaster that the Dole Campaign was and doesn't repeat it.
I would add that with the Democrats ripping each other's throats out this should be a time of great glee and rejoicing for all of us but all can muster at the moment is "Hmm...Would you look at that"...and chuckle!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Well said Black....But Adam is right in some respects...It's nothing new from McCain...I was griping about it before super Tuesday but no one would listen...we have him because I and many like me didn't give up on Huckabee soon enough, and Romneybots didn't give up on him soon enough...I think almost everyone agreed on Thompson as a first or second choice and we should have all rallied around him as a consensus...Alas the toothpaste is out of the tube and we have this candidate and this drivel passing for a speech to deal with...
That being said, I agree with your post wholeheartedly!
Hook em!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
If Rudy hadn't managed to run the single handed most inept presidential campaign in history (aaaaaargh) we wouldn't be talking about this. Of course a Rudy candidacy might drive you even more up the wall, but would have made me happy. When Rudy conceded MI and NH for his (in)famous Florida strategy,he left the door open for the socially squishy and hard core GWOT people like me in the early states to flock to McCain as the only moderate. Had Rudy offered a moderate choice, I belive it would ahve come down to Rudy, Fred and Romney. ::sighs wistfully:: As it stands,we picked the GWOT guy who occasionally is going to drive us up the wall. Myt biggest problem is the NewTone, and it drives me up the wal. Having said that, everyone else faisl-my hope is he picks a VP whose a streetfighter whose going to hit the Defeatocrats in the gonads because McCain won't. They're his friends.
Hook Em-UT's gonna whoop the little prancing girlymen from Cali this weekend.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.Let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."-Barry Goldwater
McCain/Rudy 08-kill the terrorists and punch the hippies.
but certainly neither one was a shining example of how to run for president. The main difference that I see was that Rudy said and did things that drove many of us away, whereas Fred just didn't do much of anything and people got tired of waiting.
In rolling out the most conservative judges team led by Ted Olsen and Miguel Estrada? Saying that he understands the world isn't NYC, so he would not support banning guns, and the NRA does great work? Even saying that he could support FMA if the DOMA was overturned by the Courts. Not to mention holding the conservative line on taxes and the GWOT. If anything, IMO, he ran too far to the right.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.Let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."-Barry Goldwater
McCain/Rudy 08-kill the terrorists and punch the hippies.
but his statement that originalist justices could uphold Roe hurt badly, and he has a well-known history of being anti-gun. A lot of gunowners didn't trust him and we had reason to worry.
I would have voted for Rudy before McCain...but they were both at the very bottom of my list...
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Rudy was boxed in. He couldn't win Iowa. Mitt and McCain had huge advantages in New Hampshire. Mitt and McCain had huge advantages in Michigan. He couldn't win South Carolina.
He played the hand he was dealt. Could he have played hard in New Hampshire or Michigan? Maybe even South Carolina? Possibly, but he might well have flamed out in the same way.
I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas
He just had to not keep losing to Ron Paul!RonPaul! to stay relevant. He didn't have to win Iowa, but a strong 2 3 or 3 in NH and MI would have kept him relevant. All he had to do was stay relevant until Florida, which he could have then won adn then taken off rolling into Super Tuesday.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.Let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."-Barry Goldwater
Mitt-Mitt for VP!
I don't think Rudy had a chance anyway...but had you asked me if McCain would win it all I'd have said you were nuts...so what do I know.
Seriously...we're where we are because McCain snuck up on us. If he hadn't imploded last summer he would have been taken seriously and pounded into powder long before NH.
As I see it...we were all fighting with each other, I was in the Tank for Huckabee...Mitt had his people fighting for him while he was making an ass of himself attacking anyone and everyone who showed any signs of life with negative adds. Thompson had his people and was in second with the rest of us...and McCain snuck in and stole the show.
BTW...I know Snuck isn't a word but I'm a country bopy and can't say snee.....sneee....the other word...LOL
Hook em....
BTW
I don't follow College Basketball...I'm a football guy...but Hookem anyway for the Horns on the court.
Hopefully they'll have the home court of San Antone for the final 4!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
The story in December falsely accusing him of misusing city money for security when he was visiting his future wife just kneecapped his campaign. It didn't matter that the charges were proven false later; the damage was already done.
Personally, I'd like to find whoever ordered that hit piece and kneecap them.
---
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What they actually want is a plurality of our votes. This implies that they will fuel up the blandwagon. What I mean by this is that they will position themselves both by their ethical standards and by the dictates of risk reduction.
So no candidate will agree with me 100% and no candidate will even wind up agreeing with himself 100% ot the time. This is agood thing in the case of John McCain. I'm depressed that America is in such an ideologically and philosophically moribund state that he and I are both in the same party.
If he were a Dem, I'd consider McCain not to obnoxious a liberal. A little worse than Guiliani, but way better that Hillary or Barack. As it is, he has to smooth off some rough edges, to keep us on his side. "I'll build the G_D fence!" is one example where I'm glad McCain has to untrue to himself to remain in the GOP.
"I believe we must adjourn this meeting to some other place." - The last recorded words of Adam Smith.
McCain's going to lose the race. He's the Republican "split the difference" candidate and it's not going to satisfy enough hardcore conservatives and Obama is going to win.
Mark my words: March 27, 2008, 12:23 p.m.
It's over as of now.
But your guy is a disappointment. He's coming out of the blocks by *alienating* the base? Fugheddaboutit.
McCain was "your guy" once too. Or was that before or after you were a Mitt supporter or not?
Seriously, you do yourself, RS, or the Republican cause no good when you go all "chicken little".
Be ticked, disappointed, whatever, but quit being such a defeatist.
and all our base belong to LOLcats
"Austere, intolerant, well-armed, and blood-thirsty, in their own regions the Wahhabis are a distinct factor which must be taken into account" - Winston Churchill, 1921
With the Democrats in disarray, and usually Dem-leaning centrists potentially jostled about in their affiliation, now is the time for him to make a play for those votes. Not last month, not a few months from now. Now.
You wonder why he's coming out of the blocks with such a centrist, inoffensive (to non-conservatives) speech? He's wisely trying to gather up all the centrists he can away from Obama and make their new default political position for this November a pro-McCain one. If he'd given a conservative speech he wouldn't wasted the chance that navel-gazing chaos on the Democratic side gives him.
This is what I don't understand about the blogosphere. Even assuming all that tremendous stuff is true, and that McCain could make gains by appealing to centrists rather than to his real base of support during the opening phases of a long campaign, why would anyone talk about the strategy online?
It has always seemed to me that the blogosphere defeats itself precisely because people from each party give up the juicy bits to everyone in the world.
But beyond that, what McCain just said in thost statements would have had him excoriated on the front page of this website -- as a Democrat -- a year and a half ago.
I understand why Dave doesn't want to vote for him. I don't want to vote for him, either.
...strategy secret, though.
Or wait, I could've just let the conservatives eat him alive while he attempts to do something smart. Whoops. So I'll have to fall back on my long-held belief that the blogs are basically non-influential in the real world except for fundraising, Congressional primaries, and media manipulation/harassment.
Additionally, politicians lie in speeches. Or they leave stuff out. Or use different word sets to distract. That's what they do. I can't imagine getting upset about anything any politician says, ever, what they say doesn't matter and one's own gut (and here also McCain may fall short for you) is a far better guide to their future actions than any speech transcript. But you'll say that's just because I'm a Democrat and I'm used to my politicians sort of lying to me.
I still think John McCain is going to win in November, but only because his opponents are destroying themselves. I got tired a long time ago of cleaning the smudge marks off my glasses from where John McCain's fingers have been trying to poke me in the eye.
I'm still waiting for John McCain to talk like a conservative instead of like a Republican with Stockholm syndrome from being in the minority in the Senate most of the time.
---
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It's as if he didn't give the Economy talk. And he didn't rap Obama and Clinton on the War. And he go to Iraq to show his support for our troops and the War.
If you expect him to only say things that appease conservatives, you will be let down. He is who he is. And it's the same guy he was in 2000 and in the 2008 primaries.
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It's not about alienating the Base....but that's the result! I'm not saying that to be flippant Adam...
He was doing all the right things going over seas...he was looking presidential and was taking the high ground, (and the tactically brilliant thing), by staying out of the way as the enemy was busy destroying himself...He's have done himself better by continuing what he was doing...By making this speech he's agitated the base and reminded us of everything we dispise about him.
Again I want to support the man and all he seems able to do is fly us the bird...I don't know why he feels the need to do so...but he does!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
This seems to be the theme of most of the being "poked in the eye" complaint is that he still retaining the positions they didn't like as if that was likely to change. I wasn't happy about many of Bush's stances back in 2000... if the handle says anything, the Assault Weapons Ban support was probably the biggest "poke in the eye" to an NRA member. It wasn't for another few years that it became certain he'd let it die with a whimper as opposed to an uproar.
Did I hope he'd change? Sure. Did I feel like it was a renewed attack on gun owners every time he mentioned it? No. It was his position... that I just didn't like.
The only people poking many of these folks in the eye are themselves... as they endlessly beat their head over the same old stuff and fantasize about some sort of evil McCain conspiracy to personally insult them any time he repeats himself on points they can't stand.
My primary comfort with McCain is that he came the closest to my views of the bunch when weighting my priorities... and my ideal candidate, is probably still unelectable since I'm a bit extreme in some of my more libertarian leaning views on the federal level.
If he flip-flops on one or more of the issues that bug some of his conservative detractors they'll still despise him for other reasons, still won't trust that he really changed, still won't throw him financial support, and still may protest voting for him... meanwhile he'll be dragged through the mud by the media for flip-flopping and lose his credential of straight talk with independents, moderates, and other conservative voters.
It'd be lose-lose. He won the primary on these positions, the primary results showed that they already appealed to a wide spectrum of voters among Republican leaning folks and they seem quite capable of drawing in the middle of undecided swing-voters. Why in the world would he change?
How does he appeal the the conservatives that can't stand him? Emphasize the areas where they do agree and hope they'll realize that should be plenty to form a coalition... basically what he's been doing for quite some time now... as you've pointed out numerous times.
It seems to be establishing an extremely bad precedent for future candidates... especially ones they may support in the future by continually fighting against what it takes to build a coalition now. Perhaps it won't be significant but if other Republican and Republican leaning voters get the impression they threw the election to the inexperienced and unqualified leftists during a time of war? It'll certainly discourage others from forming a coalition around them later.
As an example I offer Illinois. We had a moderate GOP candidate in a Blue State... the die hard conservatives stayed home. The State went totally blue... all state-wide offices... supermajorities in both houses... and the GOP isn't finding the ghost of Edgar running any time soon, let alone a party come back. They're still dead in the water and nobody but Chicago gets a say. People are still bitter about the whole deal... how dare the moderates win a primary... how dare the conservatives give us this mess! The infighting still hasn't stopped.
We should leave the infighting to the Democrats. They're better at it and if nothing else, we can *all* agree that they shouldn't have full control of the federal government.
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- "Make love not war? Real men can do both!"
McCain has to do much more work on solidifying his plan for the economy. Its going to be a huge issue. When he gets quoted saying he doesn't know much about the economy, he is going to skewer himself. He has his own supporters saying his weakness is managing the economy. What a poor way of saying it. How about, I will bring in the top minds on the economy that are free from Washington political bias to assure we do the right thing for our country.
BO and HC are claiming they are gurus on the economy. We all know they don't know #%^&!!! The last thing we need is straight talk express saying something like he doesn't know much about it again.
Ask not what I can do for my country, ask what my country can do for me. Washington Elected Elite
Much as I detest McCain, he is a giant among pygmies (the Hatfields and McCoys of the Dem party). He IS good on the war and he DOES support the troops and this country. I don't see him losing to those sociopathic non-achievers over there.
But our choices are 3 Senators and has the choice ever been more pathetic?
You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.
3 Senators tell me one thing. It's much about name recognition. Senators get much more TV coverage than House Reps and Governors in an ongoing basis. Senators should get much less coverage based on importance. Governors, should get the most coverage, rewarding and highlighting the good ones, and exposing the bad ones.
Our federal government beyond bare bones basics of national security etc...should be a facilitator of sharing ideas of 50 experimental states trying various governing solutions. Let the good ideas spread around and the bad ideas go into the trash.
Ask not what I can do for my country, ask what my country can do for me. Washington Elected Elite
Now, I don't blame John McCain for thinking this way, necessarily, because he's being swept up in the movement like everyone else is. It's an unstoppable force at this point. All the people with real money are saying it's a fact. Aaahnold thinks it's a fact. Bloomberg thinks it's a fact. Branson, Page, and Doerr think it's a fact. That means it's a fact, even if it isn't a fact. This is more what you could refer to as: "You're in the army NOW, buddy."
And having John McCain talk as though he agrees with it satisfies nobody: why not just elect Barack? He's already sounding like a pale shadow of Madeline Albright and James Lovelock.
Mitt, Rudy, Bush, and Huckabee all "think it's a fact" as well.
Why not elect Obama? I'll give one reason: Heller vs. DC and a second, Carhart v. Gonzalez. Obama voted no on Roberts and Alito. There are about 1,290 more reasons after that one.
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--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Like many of you, McCain was not my first choice. But he is OUR candidate. He is certainly more conservative than many of the former Republican presidential candidates.
McCain raises very cogent points. I find he reasonable, thoughtful, and passionate -- all qualities critical to being a successful president. As I have noted, I agree with him on his environmental positions, as well as his concerns about Gitmo and torture. I passionately disagree with him over Iraq. But I will support him in the election and will fight for him.
"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
McCain won the primary by winning moderates, and only slightly losing Conservatives. If he nows changes his positions to agree with the Very Conservative constituency he will done on an act of fraud on the moderates that actually voted for him. We knew he was against Gitmo, for global warming reform. Now, that we are nearing the general election is the time for him to emphasize his moderate views. We know that he has the moderate views whether he emphasizes them or not, you might as well be happy that he's using those views to conservatives advantage by voicing them and helping conservatives win this election.
He's also trying to fend off the democratic attacks that he's Bush+4 by emphasing the changes in position of these issues rather than the continuity on some rather more important ones.
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"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
lied about that wouldn't work to well, and it would go against his principals. It does make sense however, for him to emphasize the principals that he actually does hold such as closing Gitmo, and Global Warming reform in order to emphasize his diference from Bush. It makes sense for him to use his stance on the issues that were well known all during the primary to appeal to Dems/indies and to separate himself from Bush. It doesn't make sense for him to abandon his principals to do this - such as saying Bush lied concering a war he always supported.
with allies and the UN. He did, too much. He just didn't give them a veto. Plus, did McCain see the French and German elections?
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Why when McCain sugests we should have humility and should have an open dialog with our allies do you take it as an attack on Bush? McCain never said he thought our allies should have a veto at least not in the excerpts Dave has suplied us with.
sounded like fingernails on a chalkboard much like Bill Clinton's came to sound like when I was still a dem in the late 90s when I was learning to loathe Bill.
my instincts are pretty good on this
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EASTON: But I have to say, I mean, as a political document in an election year, there was sort of this -- is a change of tone trying to talk about collective will and being persuaded by our allies, the centerpiece of John McCain's foreign policy, current foreign policy, and the thing that we really think about in the 2008 election is Iraq. And when I read this, I kept picturing the prime minister of Germany and president of France locking arms, shortly after, or shortly before the invasion of Iraq, talking about we're going to unite against this war. What John McCain has done in that situation, was he going to be persuaded by his Democratic allies? So, I think it begs some real policy questions, even though he took this high-minded tone of collective will.
KONDRACKE: Yeah, I think in tone he means to separate himself from Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld, that sort of dismiss our allies and go our own way and all that. He's in favor of...
HUME: Which is a considerably exaggerated claim in the first place.
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This is what always happens to Republican...when you try to moderate in the face of your enemy you don't make yourself stronger, you make your enemy stronger by emboldening him!
"Saying you're right...My party is too extreme...you've always been right" doesn't help you with anyone because you tick off your friends. Your enemies and/or those who might have been swayed to vote for you see it for what it is...pandering and brown nosing to get their votes!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
In a broad-ranging foreign policy speech, Sen. John McCain pledged today that, if elected, his administration's foreign policy would be based on cooperation with U.S. allies and he called for a league of democracies that could build "an enduring peace."
"In remarks to the Los Angeles World Affairs Council, McCain cautioned that America's power and influence "does not mean we can do whatever we want whenever we want," and said U.S. leaders should not "assume we have all the wisdom and knowledge necessary to succeed."
"We need to listen to the views and respect the collective will of our democratic allies," McCain said before an audience of several hundred people in the ballroom of the Westin Bonaventure Hotel. "When we believe international action is necessary, whether military, economic or diplomatic, we will try to persuade our friends that we are right. But we, in return, must be willing to be persuaded by them." "
What in this do you disagree with. You think America should do whatever it wants whenever it wants? Or do you think that we have all the knowledge and wisdom to suceed, and having nothing to gain from dialog with other countries we should isolate ourselves? Or do you think we should not listen or respect other countries? Or do you think we should avoid trying to pursuade our allies to join us in military action. Or do you think that there is no possibility that our allies could be right at times and we could be wrong, and that we need to be pursuaded.
I think I'm as hawkish as anyone. However, I realize that America definitely can use the help of its allies. Right now we as tied up ocupying a realativelly small Middle East country, what would happen if there was a crisis in Syria or Iraq. We may find that we desperately need help. It seems that you all consider any humility to be wrong. McCain doesn't say that he's going to ask for permission for anything, just that we should have an open respectful dialog with our friends, if we were against that we would lose in a landslide.
I pointed out that there was a war going on?
How about if I said that the War on Terror was all that mattered?
What if I pointed out that Obama and Hillary would be worse?
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire
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The people are being held without any trial which means there could be innocent people there. And torture is a very subjective term and its possible that the USA has engaged in it. I'm a very patriotic person, but I don't belong to this wing of the party that seems to think that it is wrong to suggest that the USA or our military can and has at times done terrible things. To some of you it seems that it is wrong to sugest that there is the possibility that we might do wrong - torture or detain innocent people. I'm proud of America and think we are an exceptionally great country, but the attitude that we shouldn't look into whether or not we are engaging in unjust behaviour will lead us to not being an exceptional nation that I can be proud of.
were held w/o trial in the us during wwii as per the laws of war, going back thousands of years, until hostilities cease.
the detainees get status reviews
they aren't tried except for war crimes, which is different that mere detention of enemy combatents
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And our detainment of Japaneese civilians during WWII is generally not looked at favorablly, though I'm sure there are exceptions. Also Bush tried to say he has the right to detain citizens just by calling them enemy combatants. This gives a president an endless amount of power, because they don't have to prove if there an enemy combantant they just have to declare them that. Of course its justified with the idea that its okay because these are terrorists, but who's to say the president can't detain someone who isn't a terrorist.
sup ct recently upheld indefinite detentions of combatents till hostilities cease
try again
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If SCOTUS just upheld undefinite detention of US citizens, as long as they are called enemy combatants than I'm certainly sorry to hear that. As I said this gives the president unlimited authority. Also hostilities will never cease. I think GWOT is like the war on drugs or the war on poverty its not going to end. I mean how would we get any sign of its ending such as a surrender?
enemies till hostilities cease since time immemorial (those nations that take prisoners at least. most nations used to kill them all are make them slaves). That SCOTUS affirmed same in 2006 like they did in 1943 is a good thing.
Its right because Gamecock (and history) says so!
scotus echos gc
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actually taken in battle. If were talking about civilians taken in a place of peace, its not okay. Also its not right for a president to make a place of relative peace a permanent war zone by declaring a war that cannot ever be won, thus giving himself unlimited power.
you are hereby booted from auditing it
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I'm stupid for not agreeing with him about the Iraq war, and for thinking Obama is too liberal instead of being too conservative. I don't care to take a class from any condesceding conservative. Obviously I don't probably even know 1/10 about the law as you do. All I'm trying to do is express my concern about the president giving himself too much authority by declaring a war that has no limits in time or place. So far you have done nothing to reassure, but have just told me about how you're right because thousands of years of traditions support you. You have not given any assurance as to why the president doesn't now have practically limitless power to detain people due to his declaration of an endless war.
I'm not interested in you condescending attitude. I'm a pre - Graduate student and you're a lawyer, something would be wrong if I knew more than you about the law. I'm just expressing my concern as a voting citizen from what I understand. If I want to be looked down at as ignorant I can voice my conservative opinions to my history teacher.
juts don't like the reasons, and you persist with this bulls**t mantra that "the president giving himself too much authority by declaring a war that has no limits in time or place."
what the heck are you talking about?
I am not going to re write what I have said in the threads.
Some clients want their lawyer to tell them what they wish to heard. Get another lawyer.
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GWOT is a war on a country that we fight untill the country surrenders. It's a fight against a very loosely organized group of people who's sole purpose to life is to kill Americans. A war like that is not going to be won. And it may be such a broad definition that the president can detain anyone anywhere.
Though I maintain that this war being won is quite unlikely, it certainly can be lost. And to give up our right to a free trial to an unlimited right for a president to detain the citizens would be to lose to the terrorists. We would have allowed them to give up our freedoms.
I will concede that you make some good points. And there are times when the military/CINC must detain people. You just haven't convinced that the president hasn't granted himself to broad of an authority to do so. There's probably a fine line, and I think we may be on the wrong side of it.
As to finding another lawyer. I don't need to have anyone agree with me. I enjoy debating, its just the condescending attitude that gets to me. But to your credit you weren't as bad as many bloggers I have argued with.
rights from you is to take off a uniform they never wore. Geneva was written specifically to exclude such combatants, and even under geneva "real" pows get no trials. The distinction in geneva is how one can be interrogated.
Under geneva and the laws of war, spies and otehr illegal enemy combatants can be shot on sight. The purpose is to discourage war among civilians.
Your policy would remove the deterrent.
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reviews!
But the fact is that when we elect President, his commander in chief powers are a good reason to access the character of the candidate. There are limits on his power (deny re-election; punish his party in mid-terms; cut off funds; impeachment) but our survival depends on a strong executive. He can KILL the enemy w/o warrants and trials. Obviously he can gather intell and detail them so long as they remain a threat to re-enter the battlefield if released.
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Obviously that's a function of our third branch of government. When the president without the support of congress declares a state of war that will last till the Second Coming, and gives himself the authority to detain anyone by a mere declaration, he's just usurped the power of the court indefinitely and then grant himself as much power as he sees fit. That's maybe neccesary for emergency situations for emergency situations, but its too much power in the hands of one man when we're talking about a war that will not end, and there's judicial oversight.
As to the Detainees getting status reviews that's great. And I would say its fine for enemies caught on the battlefield. However, I don't think its okay for civilians who the president just declares an enemy combatent.
detention to prevent a return to the battlefield vs conviction and sentence for a war crime
actions of congress in approving of the war, funding it since and passing a law that covers status reviews, ect
actions of the judiciary that have alreadt approved status reviews of detainees
the battlefeild is anywhere
remember 911?
remember the cells we have broken up inside the US after 911?
you imagine the battle of lexington?
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There you pretty much sum up my problem. Civilians have a constitutional right to have their liberty taken away without due process of law. Having liberty taken away because the president says you're an enemy combatent is not such process, except in emergency. If the battlefield is everywhere, and of course the war is endless, than the idea of a right to trial are just words because a president can imprison you anywhere, and at anytime, by his declaration - or in other words by decree.
see In re Quirin
When the 7 german and one american saboteurs (see spies, illegal enemy combatents) captured in Baltimore in 1943.
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Pop...you are confusing civil law with Martial Law
The President's powers are different under Martial Law than they are under Civil. Any battlefield captured by American forces falls under Marshall law.
As an example, Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus and jailed Southern sympathizers and political enemies without trial throughout the war in order to maintain order and prosecute the war between the states, (or to preserve the Union if you're a northerner).
Combatants taken from the field of battle are defined as POWs and or enemy combatants as defined by the Geneva Conventions. Each can be held until the cessation of hostilities.
This is a technical point but I haven't heard Osama Bin Ladin declare a truce...have you?
I personally think Bush should have gon to Congress for a formal Declaration of War after 911...and none of this would be an issue.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
A agree with you sans American citizens but we part ways when it comes to detainees picked up on the battle field. Their status is determined under the Geneva Conventions and they have no habeas corpus and no rights to a trial....This would be wrapped up in a neater package had we had a formal declaration of war....but the rules of armed conflict are clear. As I've said in other posts...those enemy combatants who were engaged in armed conflict and who weren't in uniform could have been executed without trial or hearing by the military as spies or saboteurs.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
It's truly depressing. n/t