Redstate

the past, why should I think this time is any different? I tell you I am fired up...I couldn't believe it when I read it.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

I'm guessing this is not really about the audience and more just a cover for pre-existing disenchantment with the candidate. If you don't like the man, don't vote for him, but just come clean on it - don't try to drum up phony "crises" to try to make your anti-McCain attitude justifiable in the minds of the rest of us.

take your feigned pity of McCain out on someone else and don't try to call me out on an issue that is important to me...and your "phony" bs means nothing to me....I fought this man and President Bush and the US Congress with millions just like me on this issue...and I will continue to do so.....he is not Prince Charming and we here at Redstate can call them like we see them.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

A promininent politician going to speak to blatantly racist organizations is a repugnant act because it adds credibility to racists' role in American politics. Politicians who believe racism has no legitimate place in mainstream politics have no business speaking at racist organizations, whether it's white racist groups like the KKK or latino racist groups like "National Council of The Race".

Sadly McCain isn't the only major politician to address "The Race." Former President Clinton and Karl Rove are among too many who suck up to racists if they see it as politically advantageous.

This is part of his "hostile territory" tour. ... I doubt he is going to show up and blatantly pander to them.

So you'd be ok with McCain going to a KKK meeting, as long as he didn't endorse their blatantly racist positions? What's the difference with him going to The Race?

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

And for the record....Spanish website??? Give me a flipn' break. This is America Senator McCain, we speak English. I don't like pressing 1 for English at my ATM and I don't like you spending my donation money to build a Spanish website. If they are voters in November then they had better speak our language. I was in Mexico last summer and I spoke Spanish every where I went and there was NO "press one for english" in the villages we were visiting.
I complain about Obama and Hillary pandering to groups that do not hold American values true in their hearts. I will hold my candidate to the same standard.
MelZ

a spanish site he better get to work on his ebonics site :-)
If you are going to pander baby you better include everybody.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

Comments like this, with their irrational anger vented about issues that have absolutely no substance or relevance to the safety and security of America and our people, just get me mad.

I'm tempted to alter RS 3 to make you press *two* for English. That way the people who get mad about that sort of trivial thing will go away, and what'll be left is more sensible discussion.

HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

This might one of the Angry people he was tlaking about...

wholesale lawlessness
he'll throw us a smelly bone
democrat white house

talking

Not to millions of others.

The existence of alternative language interfaces is objectively irrelevant to the future of America. It's a minor thing I expect Jerry Seinfeld to whine about, not otherwise-serious conservative commentators.

HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

I don't like pressing 1 for English

Just wait until you have to press 2.

Drink Good Coffee. You can sleep when you're dead.

call me.

Till then, you're comparison is false.

I'm hardly a fan of La Raza, but they aren't anywhere close to the KKK.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

based on ideology not murder...they are both racist groups....great try...moving on.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

Tim Schieferecke

So was the Mormon Church prior to 1979. But I wouldn't have castigated someone for going to speak to them.

There's a huge difference between having some racist language in the platform of your organization and actually acting out that racism in the real world in a harmful way.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

You're just dodging the issue of McCain sucking up to racists for political advantage.

What I read of KKK groups today is merely a bunch non-violent kooks engaging in 1st Amendment protected free speech, just like their counterparts at "The Race" where McCain is speaking

But to indulge your pitiful attempt to avoid facing McCain's treating racists as a respectable political group, I'll play along with your rhetorical game:

When La Raza starts to lynch non-Hispanic people... call me.
Till then, you're comparison is false.

OK, instead of KKK, substitute "Council of Conservative Citizens" in my question. The CCC is the racist group that Senator Trent Lott was correctly called out on for speaking to, and he correctly wrote them off (though it would have been better if he had never sucked up to them in the first place). Since the CCC is just as non-violent as The Race, would you be OK with McCain addressing their meeting? Was Lott unfairly pressured to stop dealing with the CCC?

When has La Raza EVER lynched anybody?

I agree some of their language is racist. However, they do not act out in a racist way most of the time from what I can tell. They have never killed someone for being white. They have never beaten anybody for being white. All they really seem to do is shill for hispanics. In their actual actions, they don't seem to be anymore racist then the NAACP.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

heard Julian Bonds speak? have you? and I love this "they do not act out in a racist way MOST OF THE TIME" niccccce....just some of the time will do for you than?

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

I didn't say they didn't have racist elements. I said they weren't the same as the KKK.

I don't oppose talking to all racist groups, depending on the circumstances. I do oppose legitimizing terrorist groups. Huge difference.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

... then you're ok with politicians sucking up to those racists?

Some of us would like a higher standard of what's too slimy for even a politician to suck up to. I'd rather put up with a politician sucking up to pork-barrel PAC contributors than sucking up to racist organizations.

But you apparently think racist groups, as long as they don't engage in violence, should be treated the same way we treat mainstream political groups we disagree with. Some of us do not share your belief that politicians should treat racism as just another opinion which they respectfully disagree with.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

Tim Schieferecke

There are different types of racist groups. Some of them I don't mind politicians talking to. Other ones I do.

I think Tancredo's PAC is chock-full of racist, but I wouldn't oppose McCain addressing them either. I also think that pre-1979, the Mormon Church had some racist beliefs, but again, I wouldn't oppose a politician talking to a Mormon Church. I also don't oppose talking to the NAACP.

However, The KKK? The Nation of Islam? That's too far. MENChA is probably too far as well from what I hear, although I don't know enough about them to comment for sure.

La Raza, however, belongs to the first group.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

is even further than the KKK in my opinion. Based on my understanding, they are the group that is trying to reclaim the southwest by sending hispanic, or in their terms chicano/a, students to college campuses.

If people want to avoid an issue, it generally tells one everything there is to know about it. I generally expect this when I see "immigration" used to describe the illegal version.

Look I said I was willing to indulge your distinction between those two racist groups, and pose the question instead in terms of the racist "Council of Conservative Citizens", that Senator Lott was correctly pressured into shunning. So here's the question reformulated for your concerns:

So you'd be ok with McCain going to a Council of Conservative Citizens meeting, as long as he didn't endorse their blatantly racist positions? What's the difference with him going to The Race?

Was Lott unfairly pressured to stop dealing with the CCC?

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

I'm fine with anyone going before a group they find full of bile and vitriol if the reason they are there is to try to sway them, or at least take something from the meeting which will help them do that at some point.

Being in the same room as bad people doesn't make you a bad person by association. Agreeing with them, furthering evil goals, those things make you similar, sure.

Or are one's values so weak they wilt at the presence of others?

You're definition is way too vague to comment on intelligently. What kind of racist group? What is their platform? What is their practical actions? What group do they shill for and why?

Frankly, I'll try to answer if you give me more facts, but you're being willfully blind here. Most people see the distinction here. Look around.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

google says it might harm your computer...funny they don't say that about LaRaza....

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

Try following the debate.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

It's a simple Google. From the Anti Defamation League's page on the Council of Conservative Citizens:

Trumpeting the "Southern way of life," the CCA used a traditionalist rhetoric that appealed to better-mannered, more discreet racists; while the Klan burned crosses, the CCA relied on political and economic pressure.

With that out of the way, are you now ready to say you'd be OK with McCain going to address the CCC? It was unfair to pressure Lott into stopping his appearances at their meetings?

If McCain were black, no.

I do think there is a difference if you are going to try to win over people from a group that you could not be mistaken for, and going to a group you could plausibly be in line with their mission.

Since McCain is not Hispanic, it is unlikely he would buy into any latent anti-White sentiment, since he is, in fact, white.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

Mccain is white so he can't speak in front of a white racist group but he can speak in front of well any other racist group....WHAT?

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

I'm sorry, there is a huge difference between the two. Most people would realize it.

And actually, I probably wouldn't oppose it even given he's white, but it would be clearly different if he were black.

Are you honestly going to say you'd be screaming bloody murder if Herman Cain went and talked to that group? Don't make me laugh.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

it held against me if I ran for office someday? That's wishful thinking. McCain should stop playing to the margins of his support and start respecting the tried and true base. He's going to need it, and soon.
Tim Schieferecke

No, but you could have gone to speak to Trinity.

Huge difference.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

If he was a democrat it would of been outreach
A republican it would have been racism (Don't ask how it just would have been)

I think the opposite. D's are more in line with their goals. R's are not. I'd say it would be R's who are outreach and D's racism.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

I am just saying that is how it would come back to haunt. Not what it is just how its perception would be cast.

That is wishful thinking.
Tim Schieferecke

I can't say there wouldn't be any. I can say there SHOULDN'T be any.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

... on how politicians should treat racist organizations.

I appreciate the straight answer and believe your intentions are good, but believe following your advice empowers racists and increases their influence in American politics and society.

Organizations on the right or left may be tempted to indulge racists in their midst in order to increase their membership or financial support. Countervailing pressure is needed for some organizations to clean up their own house - knowing they will be written off as a fringe kook group not fit for polite company is one such pressure.

Any group that does in fact indulge overt racism in any way is indeed a bunch of kooks, and no politician should do anything that could help promote an image of respectability for those kooks.

Racism is not a matter of respectful disagreement between people of good will.

I disagree. So long as those organizations are peaceful, I think you can show outreach by talking to them and get them to change your mind.

I mean, imagine what the world would be like if no black man ever talked to any white man he felt had even a hint of racism in him. That would lead to total balkanization.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

Privately reaching out to someone infected with hate (or cynical acceptance of hate) and trying to change their mind is one thing, and I heartily approve. Even if you can't change their mind on that, but can constructively deal with them otherwise, on a personal level that's fine. Publicly bestowing respect by a prominent politician addressing a racists' convention is entirely different.

imagine what the world would be like if no black man ever talked to any white man he felt had even a hint of racism in him.

Come on now, with the National Council of The Race, you know we're talking about a lot more than "a hint of" racism. They subsidize student "MEChA" organizations with the slogan For our race everything, for other races nothing. Even leaving aside their other antics, isn't not one more dime spent on such hate the very least McCain should insist on before he'll hang out with them?

But even if we accept your view that by talking to them McCain can make some progress, doesn't that at least require that McCain confront them on their racism, without euphemism. If McCain speaks to The Race without explicitly denouncing their racism, would that make you reconsider your approval of his appearance there?

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

On your distinction between talking to racists in your own demographic group versus racists in different groups, it's irrelevant to what I object to.

The problem with going to racists' meetings is that it treats their position as one worthy of respectful disagreement. Even if a politician clearly is an adversary of that group, whether by virtue of his skin color or his previously stated positions, going to their meeting says you regard them as adversaries worthy of respect.

I suppose a politician could go to The Race's convention and explicitly and disrespectfully denounce them as a motley crew of hateful racists and lowlife scum willing to enter into alliance with racists. Whether or not that's worthwhile I have my doubts. But since that's not what politicians do my original point still holds: the problem with speaking to racist groups is that it shows respect for racists.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

Let's say, for the sake of argument, 90% of some mythical country were racist. Would a politician thus be incapable of running for office without violating your rule?

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

In that hypothetical situation, you're right a politician has to deal with the kind of people who make up the mainstream of the electorate.

Your hypothetical does not apply here because the National Council of The Race's loathsome racism is not a mainstream view among Americans. Ergo politicians have no valid excuse for treating that racism with respect.

And in case anyone was going to ask, no even if you're talking about just brown Americans, that kind of racism is not a mainstream view.

AND WE MUST LET HIM KNOW IT. we got him to back off the NC wright ad. We got him to agree to build the GD fence. Well, by God, We the People MUST HONOR THE CONTENT OF CHARACTER OF MLK AND BE THE PARTY OF ABE LINCOLN AND CONCENTRATE THE MIND OF JOHN MCCAIN.

Dammit, I did not leave the racist dem party to be come a republican to have this party pander for votes before swine.

There was lot of jokes that it was ironic that the dem commies got to be blue states despite their obvious amenability's to commies.

Speaking to a racist org is a red thing to do.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

Tim Schieferecke

On June 5, 1967, Reies Lopez Tijerina and some supporters of La Raza raided the Tierra Amarillo County courthouse and shot a state police office and county jailer, and took a journalist and deputy sheriff hostage... So, they are not totally non-violent.... This was a really big deal when I was a kid, growing up in northern NM....

Furious activity is no substitute for understanding.
-- H. H. Williams

Actually, after further reading, La Raza Unida formed in 1970, and so postdates this raid, but I think that some of the raiders or direct supporters of the raiders (I cannot find out which at this time) were instrumental in the formation of La Raza...

Furious activity is no substitute for understanding.
-- H. H. Williams

La Raza is a hate group, but the KKK is a terrorist group. There is a big difference.

HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

I agree wholeheartedly. They have used violence or the fear of violence to effect a political change. Whether it be a lynching or merely a burning cross on someone's front yard, it's terrorism as I define it. While the lynching is pretty far back in our past, the cross buring is slighly more recent.

Thankfully not THAT recent.

Exactly.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

Politicians shouldn't slum with hate groups, either, but there is a tremendous difference.

we speak to is not so low that we will speak to all non-terrorist groups is it?

La Raza is a hate group.

That makes my case.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

a director long ago (I think a lot of me). McCain cannot make up any ole day and just say and do anything and count on us to genuflect.

right?

I know Gamecock will not!

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

is going to speak to an anti-American hispanic group. LaRaza wants one thing only and that is not for all illegals to be legal they want one race and that is theirs....they are no better than the Rev. Wright and his black values church....no difference.

I say again that there are plenty of hispanic groups that he could speak to that are not so inflammatory..

http://dontspeakforme.org/

This group by the way has the most passionate speakers...I saw them down in DC last year.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

suggestion.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

I strongly suspect if you attempted the enumeration you would be embarrassed to present it.

I was wondering if I worded that imperfectly. I did not mean to imply that you folks were in the latter group, but the former.

My sincere apologies. That wasn't intentional, and frankly is the opposite of my reason for being here.

Think of it as a path to understanding. I have a very precise knowledge of my disagreements with the canonical left. I also understand that the lefts and the rights leadership are extremely different vectors than their supporters.

A fair point, sir.

Look, we are countrymen, and we both love this country. We both want America to prosper, to be a land where any can advance if they work hard and have a bit of pluck. We both want to leave our children with a better land then we found it, if for no other reason than to have our own lives mean something.

We disagree as to how to get to that point, and exactly what that point looks like. Frankly, we've got a lot in common. That's why I'm here. I don't hate you folks. I do have disdain and disgust for some elected Republicans, sure, but I see plenty of the same directed at some elected Democrats from you folks.

It's all good. As to understanding, the fact that I'm here and engaging you guys in a respectful and honest matter should show that I want to take what I can from your perspective. I would appreciate the same in return. Not in some kumbayah idiocy, but rather because we're both intelligent Americans who by sheer dint of posting in a place such as this demonstrate care and concern for the direction our country takes.

I had the same reaction when the debate collapsed. It was like "OK, so now we get the status quo for a few more years...and the Tancredoites are happy about it?!?!?!'

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

RG

There's a new anthem from the people who are Angry about illegal immigration, sung to the tune of "Don't worry, be happy"

Don't Happy...Be Worry

There will be no Spanish language translations.

Sense the Angry peopl have no real plan to deal with the issue, and no package of legislation that can be passed, just anger and a fair amount of hate, might as well have a song.

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !

Start using that and you can flush out the Angry People.

wholesale lawlessness
he'll throw us a smelly bone
democrat white house

specialist

It is a pointy stick, and I need to stop myself from wielding it, does RS no good and is not good manners.

My point to the Angry people is as simple as; fine you don't like McCain or the President on illegal immigration, then get real, tell us what legislation you would propose to deal with the issue. If an angry person wants to be angry fine, but being angry without offering solutions is just stupid...full stop.

We are being over-run, we are being over taxed to support the illegal population, and nothing effective is being done NOW or it looks like anytime in the future. If anyone finds that acceptable, they are most likely a Democrat.

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !

Once Identified they will be Ignored......But I want to give them their chance, just as you said...

wholesale lawlessness
he'll throw us a smelly bone
democrat white house

Geez its that attitude that makes us the angry people. Yes I embrace my anger. For forty years this issue has been p****d on and the people that were concerned about it likewise. Now its a freaking Gordian Knot. So yes we are angry, be careful we don't get too angry.

J

That's no answer then. If you're angry is about all you can say, and you can't offer real legislative solutions as proposals, then what do you want?

Tancredo is plenty angry, and plenty ignored and plenty ineffective. I want action, I want something done, and not another stupid Republican led "listening tour".

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !

And I am willing to bet there's going to be plenty of angry people when they start looking around asking WTF happened. Of course by then it will be too late.

When you expose the people that are angry they are able to take a step back....and they see on the thread what they have said and how they have acted...maybe it helpes a few of them...Thats it...I help people overcome their anger...Just like Jhancock..he just put up a blog...lets see if he Learned anything about his anger

"40 million American households with Carnitas are generally happier
than those people in households that don't have Carnitas."

J

Well, I consider myself pretty angry about this issue, living at ground zero of the problem, Los Angeles. But I am also a realist.

Real facts in my view

There's probably 25 Million+ illegal and their families in this country. They are not going to go home unless we make life really hard on them here in this country...see the next point on how hard you really can make things.

Liberal Democrats are never going to allow a really hard set of laws get on the books to deal with illegal immigration, or at least no time soon.

We the greedy American people and the greedy business owners and the jobs we provide are the root cause of illegal immigration, these people are not coming to our country to go to Disneyland, well actually...

I'll settle for securing the border, going after companies and businesses that are hiring illegals and arresting criminal illegal aliens in our jails to take them off our streets when they are caught committing crimes in our country.

Once we are back in control of our borders and our immigration controls, then I'm willing to engage in a rational discussion about what to do with the illegals still here and about what are labor needs to keep our economy going.

One other admission of guilt on my part. If was a Mexican, someone from Central America and there were jobs in America that allowed me to provide a better life for my family, I'd do everything I could to get to those jobs and that money to support my family. Anyone who says they would respect the laws of another country when their family was going hungry is flat out not telling the truth.

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !

LOL

I prefer rule of law to anarchy. If we just enforced the rules we already have on the books, we wouldn't have a problem or the necessity to debate. I'd rather Congress did nothing than something that will eventually balkinize our great nation into ethnic enclaves that have no desire to learn of or care about America's founding principles. I'm all for legal immigration for any person anywhere that wants to become American through and through and work to protect, defend, and make her an even better place than she already is. McCain-Kennedy would not have embraced that. Kudos for doing nothing.
Tim Schieferecke

to push through in the "dark of night" with no debate...the truth is if it was the panacea that they said it was than debate would not have been an issue....but they knew if the American public heard the giveaways in that bill they would be irate and rightfully so...and they were!

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

No debate?

Yah...I didn't watch debate for weeks on C-Span...

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

loose and they LOST........they were going to attempt to pass it in April with 1 day of debate...you are so disengenuous as to be laughable.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

Is against site rules.

I've been very good about not retaliating today against your attacks. Let's see if the moderators actually pay any attention this time.

And you're argument is wrong anyway. The debate over the bill had gone on for weeks.

AND I DIDN'T EVEN SUPPORT THE BILL.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

retaliating...I am mistaken it was the STRIVE act that came out first and than Comprehensive (illegal) immigration reform and than the DREAM act....you see it was a very busy 2007 for those trying to find a way to pander to their moderate and left base....but you get the picture...oh and I used the term disingenous...you want to take that as liar...well you are a grown up...and a free American.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

Tim Schieferecke

the people concerned about immigration have come up with several workable plans, but the part of the republican party that caters to big business wants cheap labor and it is no more complicated than that.

Tancredo was the only voice crying in the wilderness for years about this. He is not the one who is Angry, McCain is the one who is always in a rage, a rage at his own party.

I am sick and tired of being called a racist because I am concerned that my city is going under in front of my very eyes, our prisons are full, our schools are overrun, we have thousands of people driving illegally in old cars with no insurance, and our hospitals are shutting down emergency services.

And all we get from people like you are platitudes. And NO, McCain did not come up with a way to address this problem, he came up with de facto amnesty and enforcement provisions that were supposed to kick in later, but actually would have been challenged in court AFTER millions of people were legalized.

By the way you are an idiot.

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

I may well be a idiot, but I am not so too stupid as to be able to stand up against the sort of racist clap trap spewed by the likes of you or for that matter the other followers of Tom Tancredo.

Enjoy your anger, because other than that anger, you're about to become even more irrelevant to the discussion with your racist point of view already is. Ether when John McCain wins the Presidency or when a Democrat does, the sort of racist spew that you engage in becomes even more of a "who cares" I already don't.

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !

Email the Directors in 24 hours when you're prepared not to name-call any more. And don't smirk, kyle8: you get to do the exact same thing.

ANYBODY ELSE FEEL LIKE SPOUTING OFF?

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Personally, I'd make both of you wait the full 24 hours, but then I'm the mean one.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

"It is a pointy stick, and I need to stop myself from wielding it, does RS no good and is not good manners."....steveLA

Welcome back

It's Sir Idiot to you, and take a read about the rules of personal attacks on this site.

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !

Kyle8, you made some good points about Tancredo and McCain.

Tancredo joined with the leadership of his party when he strongly supported and voted for H.R. 4437 in December 2005. Ninety-two percent (92%) of House Republicans supported that bill. It did offer a realistic plan to address the problem of illegal immigration and did not reward millions of illegal aliens with amnesty.

On the other hand, John McCain joined with the forty-one (41) of forty-five (45) Democrats who voted to support S. 2611 in 2006. That bill would have rewarded millions of illegal aliens with legal status and a path to citizenship.

When the most immigration vote of their careers were taken, Tom Tancredo voted with the overwhelming majority of his House Republican colleagues while John McCain went against the majority of Senate Republicans and joined with John Kerry, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

One is a terrorist organization, the other is not.

Try reading the thread first.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

is a much more powerful and evil force in America today than the anemic on its death bed klan.

I have read volumes on The Race. Would that the "thread's" apologists for this sorry matter had done so, and, more importantly had the intellectual honesty to admit that McCain is wrong to appear before them

If your view is the Rs view, then Redstate has sold its soul.

And I ain't got no truck with souless entities.

QUESTION FOR REDSTATE; CAN MCCAIN SAY OR DO ANYTHING AND STILL HAVE YOUR SUPPORT?

For the record, I have asked blacks if there is anything Obama can say or do or that they can learn of him that would cause them to not vote for him. Given his CONSTANT 92% vote despite all the learning, it seems college town libs and blacks only care about his pigmentation. Whites, majorities of whom Obama won in EARLY states, seem to be voting based on knowledge and principles as there share of the vote declines.

The test for LaRaza is not whether it is "worse" than the KKK. The test is for McCain. La raza is, ipso fact, explicitly, a racist organization. Are we going to play the eyes glazed over game our govt has played with Abbas vs Hamas?

McCain must not go there. People, I may vote for McCain anyway because we have a job to fill, but WE CANNOT ABIDE THIS.

WE CANNOT.

AND KEEP OUR SOULS.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

little lady who answered the phone was a little shocked at my displeasure....let him know...do not be silent.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

Mccain disgraces himself by appearing before this scum.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=13863

excerpt below/read all via above link

THIS COULD DESTROY MCCAIN'S CANDIDACY - MIKE DEVINE

The nation's television screens many days recently have been filled with scenes of huge crowds carrying the colorful green and red flag of Mexico viewers could well have thought it was a national holiday in Mexico City.

It was instead, downtown Los Angeles, Calif., although the scene was recreated in numerous other cities around the country with substantial Mexican populations. Hordes of Mexican expatriates, many here illegally, were protesting the very U.S. immigration laws they were violating with impunity. They found it offensive and a violation of their rights that the U.S. dared to have immigration laws to begin with.

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa mounted the podium, but any hopes that he would quiet the crowds and defend the law were soon dashed. Villaraigosa, himself, has spent a lifetime opposing U.S. immigration law.

For law-abiding Americans without knowledge of the dark side of our current illegal immigration crisis, all this is unfathomable. For those who know the truth about the "La Raza" movement, these demonstrations were a prophecy fulfilled.

It is past time for all Americans to know what is at the root of this outrageous behavior, and the extent to which the nation is at risk because of "La Raza" -- The Race.

There are many immigrant groups joined in the overall "La Raza" movement. The most prominent and mainstream organization is the National Council de La Raza -- the Council of "The Race".

To most of the mainstream media, most members of Congress, and even many of their own members, the National Council of La Raza is no more than a Hispanic Rotary Club.

But the National Council of La Raza succeeded in raking in over $15.2 million in federal grants last year alone, of which $7.9 million was in U.S. Department of Education grants for Charter Schools, and undisclosed amounts were for get-out-the-vote efforts supporting La Raza political positions.

The Council of La Raza succeeded in having itself added to congressional hearings by Republican House and Senate leaders. And an anonymous senator even gave the Council of La Raza an extra $4 million in earmarked taxpayer money, supposedly for "housing reform," while La Raza continues to lobby the Senate for virtual open borders and amnesty for illegal aliens.

The Mexican flag flew over a crowd of pro-amnesty marchers in New York. Marches like this across the U.S. have been supported by the “La Raza” movement. (Reuters/Seth Wenig)

Radical 'Reconquista' Agenda

Behind the respectable front of the National Council of La Raza lies the real agenda of the La Raza movement, the agenda that led to those thousands of illegal immigrants in the streets of American cities, waving Mexican flags, brazenly defying our laws, and demanding concessions.

Key among the secondary organizations is the radical racist group Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan, or Chicano Student Movement of Aztlan (MEChA), one of the most anti-American groups in the country, which has permeated U.S. campuses since the 1960s, and continues its push to carve a racist nation out of the American West.

One of America's greatest strengths has always been taking in immigrants from cultures around the world, and assimilating them into our country as Americans. By being citizens of the U.S. we are Americans first, and only, in our national loyalties.

This is totally opposed by MEChA for the hordes of illegal immigrants pouring across our borders, to whom they say:

"Chicano is our identity; it defines who we are as people. It rejects the notion that we...should assimilate into the Anglo-American melting pot...Aztlan was the legendary homeland of the Aztecas ... It became synonymous with the vast territories of the Southwest, brutally stolen from a Mexican people marginalized and betrayed by the hostile custodians of the Manifest Destiny." (Statement on University of Oregon MEChA Website, Jan. 3, 2006)

MEChA isn't at all shy about their goals, or their views of other races. Their founding principles are contained in these words in "El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan" (The Spiritual Plan for Aztlan):

"In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal gringo invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny. ... Aztlan belongs to those who plant the seeds, water the fields, and gather the crops and not to the foreign Europeans. ... We are a bronze people with a bronze culture. Before the world, before all of North America, before all our brothers in the bronze continent, we are a nation, we are a union of free pueblos, we are Aztlan. For La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada."

That closing two-sentence motto is chilling to everyone who values equal rights for all. It says: "For The Race everything. Outside The Race, nothing."

If these morally sickening MEChA quotes were coming from some fringe website, Americans could at least console themselves that it was just a small group of nuts behind it. Nearly every racial and ethnic group has some shady characters and positions in its past and some unbalanced individuals today claiming racial superiority and demanding separatism. But this is coming straight from the official MEChA sites at Georgetown University, the University of Texas, UCLA, University of Michigan, University of Colorado, University of Oregon, and many other colleges and universities around the country.

MEChA was in fact reported to be one of the main organizers of those street demonstrations we witnessed over the past weeks. That helps explain why those hordes of illegal immigrants weren't asking for amnesty -- they were demanding an end to U.S. law, period. Unlike past waves of immigrants who sought to become responsible members of American society, these protesters reject American society altogether, because they have been taught that America rightfully belongs to them.

MEChA and the La Raza movement teach that Colorado, California, Arizona, Texas, Utah, New Mexico, Oregon and parts of Washington State make up an area known as "Aztlan" -- a fictional ancestral homeland of the Aztecs before Europeans arrived in North America. As such, it belongs to the followers of MEChA. These are all areas America should surrender to "La Raza" once enough immigrants, legal or illegal, enter to claim a majority, as in Los Angeles. The current borders of the United States will simply be extinguished.

This plan is what is referred to as the "Reconquista" or reconquest, of the Western U.S.

But it won't end with territorial occupation and secession. The final plan for the La Raza movement includes the ethnic cleansing of Americans of European, African, and Asian descent out of "Aztlan."

As Miguel Perez of Cal State-Northridge's MEChA chapter has been quoted as saying: "The ultimate ideology is the liberation of Aztlan. Communism would be closest [to it]. Once Aztlan is established, ethnic cleansing would commence: Non-Chicanos would have to be expelled -- opposition groups would be quashed because you have to keep power."

MEChA Plants

Members of these radical, anti-American, racist organizations are frequently smoothly polished into public respectability by the National Council of La Raza.

Former MEChA members include Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who was officially endorsed by La Raza for mayor and was awarded La Raza's Graciela Olivarez Award. Now we know why he refuses to condemn a sea of foreign flags in his city. California Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante is also a former MEChA member. He delivered the keynote address at La Raza's 2002 Annual Convention.

The National Council of La Raza and its allies in public office make no repudiation of the radical MEChA and its positions. In fact, as recently as 2003, La Raza was actively funding MEChA, according to federal tax records.

Imagine Robert Byrd's refusing to disavow the views of the KKK, or if Strom Thurmond had failed to admit segregation was wrong. Imagine Heritage or Brookings Foundation making grants to the American Nazi Party.

......

Through public appearances, written statements, and on their respective websites, La Raza groups and allies must:

1. Denounce the motto "For La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada," as repugnant, racist, and totally incompatible with American society or citizenship.

2. Acknowledge the right of all Americans to live wherever they choose in the U.S. without segregation.

3. Commit to sponsorship of nationwide educational programs to combat racism and anti-Semitism in the Hispanic community.

4. Denounce and sever all ties with MEChA and any other organizations with which they have ever been associated which held to the racist doctrines held by MEChA.

5. Acknowledge the internationally recognized borders of the U.S., the right of the citizens of the U.S. to determine immigration policy through the democratic process, and the right of the U.S. to undertake any and all necessary steps to effectively enforce immigration law and defend its border against unauthorized entry.

6. Repudiate all claims that current American territory rightfully belongs to Mexico.

If the National Council of La Raza, other La Raza groups, and local and national political leaders with past ties and associations with the radical elements of the La Raza movement can publicly issue such a statement and live by every one of these principles, they should be welcomed into the American public policy arena, with past sins -- real or imaginary -- forgiven.

If they cannot publicly and fully support these principles, Congress needs to take appropriate steps and immediately bar any group refusing to comply from receiving any future federal funds. Both the House and Senate should strike these groups from testifying before any committees, and the White House should sever all ties. Both political parties should disengage from any further contact with these groups and individuals.

There are plenty of decent, patriotic Hispanic organizations and elected officials to provide Congress with necessary feedback on specific issues confronting Americans of Latino heritage. Any group or individual who can agree with the simple six points should be welcomed into that fold.

If not, the American people will know there's a wolf in their midst, and take the necessary precautions to defend our Republic against an enemy.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

Gamecock, your assessment of The National Council of the Race is right on target.

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

Why game, I'm surprised.

I thought you wanted to catch them criminals red handed before you strung them up, being the legal eagle that your are. Or is it the case in John McCain that you want to form up that 'hanging posse before the meeting, call it a prophylactic hanging, just in case?

Who knows, Big John might just have the Huevón to indeed have a Senorita Juanita moment at this meeting?

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !

McCain is juggling grenades with the pins pulled here.

This is an issue that can cost him the election. Its the kind of thing that would have me writing in Paul. So yes the people here are supporting McCain but its not unlimited support.

a black independant about my age here in NC today. He now works for me. We also talked about Obama, and we had one of those conversations I have spoken of often around here at RS that astounds the young whites from outside the south that are captives of the PC world.

We, blacks and whites, many of us, the sane ones, know each other as human beings.

At one point I said to him that I was so disappointed in black dems for voting for him at 92% from Iowa to now, despite what we have learned of him. He can do anything and get their and college lib votes. Many whites in the dem party are voting on the evidence.

I was dem for most of my life because i thought the dems were for inclusion and MLK.

I saw over time that the dems becamse the racists and that most repubs bought into the moral argument or at least got parctical and would hire blacks that could make them a dollar. Whereas many lib attys would talk the game but never hire a black.

Now, La Raza is the absolute anti-thesis of all this country stands for.

I cannot abide this.

Will not.

I had a soul when i was a dem, and that sould made me a repub.

maybe the soul is all I am

praise God

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

J

There is a segment of the population that is angry about this issue, that I agree with you on. But I've asked and received no answer about any realistic set of legislation that stands a chance of being passed into law that angry people are proposing that deals with that anger.

I've avoided accusations of what really motivates some of these angry people, I have my view about the source of that anger, a bit first hand from talking to some of my neighbors. My anger is economic, tax and law and order based. I'm not worried about culture or any of the other "code words" having seen other code words used in the deep South of the 60's.

I beleive the vast majority of Americans want something done about illegal immigration, until you talk specifics about deporting that nice guy that coaches your kids baseball team, or the next door neighbor, or any other of real people that you know being effected. Americans are a funny people in some ways, and McCain is talking to those that are angry about illegal immigration but are not so angry that they're willing to go along with an angry mob intent on retribution for a crime that they helped create.

If it costs McCain the election because the angry people need to feel angry and not actually solve anything, then so be it. I doubt anything a Democratic President will do in this area will make those that are angry happy, but once something is done, the issue will fade from focus once again.

But then you'll still have your anger to cling to.

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !

I can illustrate. I know a fellow lets call him Mr. Sharp Businessman. He is so sharp that if you shake hands with him better make certain you don't leave behind blood. Mr. Sharp is a good church going fellow who somehow managed to miss out on all the meaning of the scriptures. Anyhow Mr. Sharp isn't happy unless he is screwing the other side of a deal. Doesn't matter who or what or why.

Anyhow Mr. Sharp has found a gold mine. Immigrants of questionable status. It gives him a labor force that can't do very much in their own behalf.

Now anyhow we fought a war to prevent people being used in that manner. I find it repugnant that we still do. Whats more I find it even worse I am a willing accomplice to this. We have healthcare costs that are being distorted by Mr. Sharp, we have national policy being warped by Mr. Sharps bigger better connected friends. And once again I am complicit.

I don't have anything to do with Mr. Sharp anymore he was a little to sharp for me.

The good ones aren't as obvious about it.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

Showing up makes a difference.

HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

John McCain: Uniter of the GOP...bs :-)

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

I think they have a motto that says something like "For those inside the race, everything. For those outside the race, nothing."

Which, certainly, is a racist motto. And their name is racist. But beyond that, I've seen no evidence of actual racist actions. They shill for Hispanics kind of like the NAACP shills for blacks, sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't, but I've seen no evidence they are a "hate group" like some have said here.

"I will look for people in the cast of John Roberts, Samuel Alito, and my friend the late William Rehnquist – jurists of the highest caliber who know their own minds, and know the law, and know the difference." - John McCain

HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

No, that's a "I don't know, but other then the above I've yet to see any evidence of it."

I'm suspicious of a group that has problems such as the stated motto above, but I need more info before I'd say that they are.

"I will look for people in the cast of John Roberts, Samuel Alito, and my friend the late William Rehnquist – jurists of the highest caliber who know their own minds, and know the law, and know the difference." - John McCain

group

you were right

that we are pressed to produce evidence of same is quite silly

like being challenged to prove the Titanic sunk

eyes glazed over

usually its only lib trolls that demand such evidence

over and over

young people...

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=13863

tedious boredom

If McCain decides to speak to the KKK will we have to gather evidence?

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

Very interesting.

Pretty much confirms what I said in this thread, namely, La Raza, in spite of having some positions I disagree with, is not a "hate" group, is not like MEChA, and shouldn't be treated as such.

"I will look for people in the cast of John Roberts, Samuel Alito, and my friend the late William Rehnquist – jurists of the highest caliber who know their own minds, and know the law, and know the difference." - John McCain

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion