Redstate

The way I see it, the extreme defensiveness on the part of religious folk is a major contributing factor to these kinds of tussles. The Christian right, for example, has seemingly convinced itself that, despite the support of an overwhelming majority of Americans and institutionalized religiousity, Christianity is somehow under siege by...well, I don't know whom. This impression makes them react with what I view as hysteria over fairly minor things, such as the presence (or absence) of a tree in an airport.

Personally, I'm not very concerned with the display of religious items, Christian or otherwise. (As an aside, it's interesting to note that the Christmas tree has an origin that is distinctly pagan.) When government starts telling adherents of this or that religion (or none) that they must support religious schools or institutions with their tax dollars, or that tax-exempt religious organizations may promote political candidates without penalty, I'll worry. Until then, it's all theatre.

Wearer of Muppetskin and Bearer of No-Nonsense

While you, personally, as an outreach from wherever you are, may not be anti-public-Christianity, our legal history is FULL of people who get whiny and run to the courts at every opportunity.

A cross anytime, anywhere in anything remotely public will draw a lawsuit these days. Even in the seal of the County of Los Angeles which is, you know, the County of Angels.

And our legal system today REIMBURSES the ACLU for lawsuits of this nature. So yes, Virginia, our system of government is FUNDING the fight against public displays of Christianity.
--
Run like Reagan!

for the body politic

I may even pinch it I like it so much :-)

John
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Ethnic humor is part of human nature. The Dutch tell Belgian jokes. The Belgians tell French jokes. The French tell English jokes. The English tell Irish jokes. The Irish tell Irish jokes.

Well, there are indeed people who overreact to public displays of religion, and there are people who try to inject religion inappropriately into the public square. My response is stay focued on the important issues and not to get too worked up about any of it. I recommend this approach.

Wearer of Muppetskin and Bearer of No-Nonsense

There are hair trigger sensitivities on both sides. It's like having two kids in the back seat of the car on a long drive. Both sides constantly look for ways to irritate the other. Too bad we can't come up with a way to threaten to pull the car over and acquaint their backsides with a little belt leather.

I think it misses the point.

If the government can't be seen to endorse a religion yet can display a Jewish "apparatus" and participate in a Jewish holiday ritual then that must mean that government doesn't believe Jewish holidays to actually be religious? A bit insulting don't you think?

Christmas trees are not religious, dreidles are are not religious. Nativity scenes and menorahs are religious. If one is banned and the other not then it must be that the one not banned is not religious. Again, a bit insulting to Jews I think

John
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Ethnic humor is part of human nature. The Dutch tell Belgian jokes. The Belgians tell French jokes. The French tell English jokes. The English tell Irish jokes. The Irish tell Irish jokes.

Christmas trees are not religious, dreidles are are not religious. Nativity scenes and menorahs are religious. If one is banned and the other not then it must be that the one not banned is not religious. Again, a bit insulting to Jews I think

Nativity scenes are not banned. You can display them provided they are part of a group of religious displays of various religions.

"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw

I don't know what will. How about a nativity scene grouped with a pentagram and a ring of standing stones. I believe that satisfies the mandate. Oops wouldn't want to offend any Aztecs out there we could have a diorama of an Aztec priest ripping out a heart.

There are dumb people and dumb lawyers.

Doesn't change what the truth is, though.

"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw

NT

Reading Comprehension counts.

In the particular incident which is the subject of this diary on religious grounds, nativity scenes are banned but menorahs are not. So, is it not reasonable to infer that someone in Washington state does see Jewish religious holidays and symbols as actual religious holidays and symbols? The only other possibility is that soemone in Washington state is an idiot.

Either works for me. But in either case Jewish religious symbols are in the public square and Christian religious symbols are not.

John
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Ethnic humor is part of human nature. The Dutch tell Belgian jokes. The Belgians tell French jokes. The French tell English jokes. The English tell Irish jokes. The Irish tell Irish jokes.

There obviously is a guilt clause yet to be discovered in the Constitution. At that time, all will be explained about such inconsistencies. And word: you may be called an anti-Semite or Buchananite because you noticed this uneven application of the First Amendment, and for all I know you celebrate Passover, too.

yes, like the hidden 'Right not to be offended' that so many people like to invoke when someone says something they don't like.

John
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Ethnic humor is part of human nature. The Dutch tell Belgian jokes. The Belgians tell French jokes. The French tell English jokes. The English tell Irish jokes. The Irish tell Irish jokes.

Or vice versa.

And congrats, man.

I think the comparison is right on point. If the airport decides that Christmas trees are an appropriate decoration for the season but a nativity scene would be too overtly sectarian, then equal treatment of Hanukkah would suggest something like a dreidle rather than an overtly religious symbol like a menorrah.

Nativity scenes are not banned.

The term "banned" in the comment you replied to confuses the issue, but that's not the context. While it would have been legal for the government controlled airport to have a nativity scene (and a menorrah), they made an arguably reasonable policy decision to omit the overtly sectarian aspect of the holiday. The point was that if the government applies that standard to a Christian holiday, it should apply the same standard to other religions' holidays.

I'm an agnostic and my non-religious sensibilities aren't wounded by seeing a Christian nativity scene, Jewish menorrah, Islamic crescent, etc., etc. in a government run airport. What would offend my Constitutional sensibilities is a government policy that acknowledgments of one religion's holiday must be secularized more than other religions'.

The tree is too. For druids but thats another matter.

The problem is the level of litigation over this issue has people scared of their own shadows.

Thats Norse.

that their policy decision had the effect of banning a Christian symbol while at the same time not just permitting but celebrating a Jewish symbol. Yet the refusal to permit the Christian symbol was because it overtly religious. From that it appears that someone in Washington state doesn't think Judaism is a real religion?

John
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Ethnic humor is part of human nature. The Dutch tell Belgian jokes. The Belgians tell French jokes. The French tell English jokes. The English tell Irish jokes. The Irish tell Irish jokes.

n/t

specifically declined because the nativity was religious. So the governor was banning it for religious reseaons, and yet the menora is specifically religious as well. Not that I'm surprised. Just south of the People's Republic of Maryland we had a Fairfax county public school tell a father he couldn't show up for his kids school "holiday" party dressed as Santa Claus and handing out candy canes to any kid who wanted them. He acquiesced on the basis of not wanting to teach his kids to disrespect school authority.

Now, prohibitting him from handing out candy canes to kids while they are in school I can see: candy rots your teeth, but these days there aren't many less secular symbols out there than Santa. ;)

When the law requires that you not offend someone's tender sensibilities, the best legal course of action is not to do anything. As others have noted, after you add the menora, you need to add all the rest of the religious symbols for all winter holidays (kwanza, wicca, muslim, druid, pagan, etc) and pretty soon you con't have any room for the passengers, aircrew, and airport staff to walk through the airport, which kinda defeats its purpose.

On the other hand, removing the trees after they've put them up is a no-no I would have thought was covered in PR 101. You only do that reluctantly after the court has so ordered to prevent a protracted legal fight that would be damaging to your business.

and, although it may come as a surprise to government officials, Jews know there are Christians out there.

John
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Ethnic humor is part of human nature. The Dutch tell Belgian jokes. The Belgians tell French jokes. The French tell English jokes. The English tell Irish jokes. The Irish tell Irish jokes.