SCHIP Nonsense!
By mbecker908 Posted in Culture — Comments (54) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
OK. So there was a blog discussing the Democrats "response" to GWBs veto of their SCHIP giveaway. The author (mike volpe I think) was concerned that the issue is a loser for Republicans because it's an emotional issue.
Soft hearted old compassionate conservative that I am, I suggested that: 1-if federal funds were required the could die for all I care. Let the parents get second jobs, let their state foot the bill or let them seek help from private charities. And 2-I would hire a team of PIs and find out exactly how much their parents made and where they spent every nickel. Then I'd do everything possible to destroy their lives with that info.
As I recall, someone thought I was a tad heartless. Darn.
Well, ht to PowerLine! I'm doing this on my SmartPhone so I can't do HTML links so I apologize, please bounce over there and follow their links to freepers and to Mark Steyn at NRO.
Bottom line, the parents claim they both work, make $45,000 per year and can't afford the more than $1200 per month health insurance would cost. Well, turns out that dad owns his own business and a commercial building that he rents part of. His they own a home in CT that looks like it's worth well in excess of $500k and the boy in question and his sister both attend a private school whose tuition run $20k per year per kid. And health insurance can be had for a family of 4 in their zip code for less than $500.
Read the whole thing at PowerLine and their links to freeper (who did the basic research on google) and, of course Mark.
The Dems just make it so easy for us. Now then, the REAL QUESTION: do we have anybody holding elective office who's man enough to beat these people to death with this info or not? And can we please get an IRS audit of this family. I really want to know how they paid $40k in tuition, over $15k in mortgage payments, payments on their commercial property, bought food and clothes on a combined income of $45k!
Hang 'em. Publically. Let 'em twist in the wind and be eaten by ravens. Then maybe the bunch of socialist patsies will think twice.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
When I say my take away, I mean the things I heard and my thoughts thereof. Some of what I have to say was said by others at the summit, I am not attempting to take credit for any of it. I am however a defender of the American dream!
I am fed up with Republican vs. Democrat! I know we can’t say freedom vs. socialism? Isn’t that really what we are talking about here? More taxes can only mean one thing… MORE GOVERNMENT! Can someone please tell me of ONE situation where bigger government produced more freedom? The “great entity” that is going to solve all of our problems. Oh please, tell me what the government does right? In my humble opinion little to nothing! What are we thinking here? Who or what is it that takes our freedoms away?
Our forefathers that signed that Declaration of Independence established what independence and freedom is. They had some consequences to face for declaring such, drawn and quartered. In case some don’t know what that is, being hanged until just about dead, and then cut into quarters while still alive! I contend that they believed in what they were willing to die for.
When I ask, “What are we thinking?” I really do wonder! I have questions as why people are willing to say please take away more of my freedoms. Is that really what they want? Do people really not understand that if we give a $5000 bond to every baby born in America that we actually have to pay for it? How? Let me guess, more taxes! Or do we borrow it from those very kids future?
Americans for Prosperity recently had a Defending the American Dream Summit in DC in which I attended. I feel compelled to let you know that if you have any of the same questions, this group of nonpartisan individuals is actually making a difference. I will say that from the outside it may appear to be a partisan group. They did invite ALL candidates, but none of the democrat candidates accepted the invite. I guess you have to expect that when all of them want to increase taxes and have more government control.
I must say that it was nice to be in a group of people that understands less government equates to more freedom. These people see wasteful government spending as hurting our Country not helping. A group of people that helped stopped the government from building a bridge to nowhere. A group that is getting their voice heard!
I don’t think I am outside the majority to say I want more freedom, not more government. I have not seen anther nonpartisan grassroots organization draw this many presidential candidates, help put an end to earmark spending, help keep Wisconsin citizens from become the highest taxed people in the world. They are working on the federal, state, and local levels to put a stop to bigger government and less freedom.
It may sound like a commercial for AFP, but I think it of more as an endorsement for “We the People”! If you want less government and more freedom, I would suggest that you take a look at their website to stay informed and learn more what you can do as a citizen. I was tired of feeling as if there was nothing that I could do, this organization IS getting results. If you’ve read this far, and support less waste and less taxes, please help! WWW.AMERICANSFORPROSPERITY.ORG
I just wish that Republicans would make the argument that social spending should be done at the state level. Still, I worry that it's just not politically feasible. It's so easy to say that someone is against health care for the children.
...that these sorts of things should be reserved for the poor. Their argument against this is actually a pretty good one. They should make it louder...use a little populism against the Democrats for once.
They're wanting to tax smokers -- many of whom are poor or lower middle class -- to pay for healthcare of people making up to $80K a year....when the current tax structure already allows us to fund children's healthcare for families making less than that.
I despise populism in every form imaginable -- but it does work, it's basically the only reason Democrats ever get elected. They're one-trick ponies, but it's a good trick.
Republicans shouldn't shrink from using it here.
This gets name checked a lot this year and I'm not sure what it means.
...cheap cigar, beat-up car, nice guitar.....
Populism is playing to an emotionally charged majority (often supermajority) on less than substantial grounds. It's typically a left-wing phenomenon -- but it exists on the right, too (when referring to the "Hollywood elites" or "fatcat trial lawyers", etc.). It usually pits a large group against the aims of a small but influential minority.
The populist argument against this SCHIP bill is this: the Democrats are wanting to raise taxes on poor and lower middle class smokers to pay for welfare for the kids of rich parents.
Now, everybody here knows that a statement such as that is riddled with charged language -- particularly that classifying people as "poor", "middle class", and "rich" -- that is subjective and substantially useless.
I don't think families making $60K per year or more are "rich". But some people do -- and they're who matter and that's why Democrats craft language to target them.
This is about expanding governmental handouts to people who are neither retired nor "poor" -- which has always been the holy grail of the left. Because once you get to a certain point, there is no going back....only pushing forward for more.
I don't like populist rhetoric. But it's how the Republican can keep this from becoming an albatross. Here, they should take a page from the demagogues on the left and make it clear that they would never raise taxes on poor people to pay for things for the comfortable.
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
I really want to know how they paid $40k in tuition, over $15k in mortgage payments, payments on their commercial property, bought food and clothes on a combined income of $45k!
Is that any less credible than a poor working family in California donating ~$50K to Billary and another ~$150K to other Democrats in the past couple of years? Some people just know how to stretch a dollar further than you or I do.
BTW here are the Steyn link and the Free Republic one.
before you start trying to "hang" anybody.
From the links provided, the amount that Frost bought his home for in 1990 was $55,000. The school he sends his kids to provides financial assistance for any family with incomes below $160,000, with full tuition being granted in some cases. If the school bothered having a fund-raiser for the family right after the accident, odds are they aren't paying the $40k annual tuition.
Health insurance for a family of 6 in that zip code is less than $500... with a deductible of $1,500 (max OPX of $3,000).
I don't know this family's financial situation, and neither does a freeper that can google. Unlike the Baltimore Sun, it's very apparent that the investigative Freeper didn't actually contact the family and talk to them before sending out the Swift Boats.
I fully support a government safety net that limits health care coverage to poverty level families who are in the country legally. But that is not SCHIP.
====
"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -- James Madison
"I fully support a government safety net that limits health care coverage to poverty level families..."
For the record I have never supported a" safety net" (btw you are using leftist code words), nor will I ever support such garbage in the future. If you like it you can voluntarily fund it out of your own pocket, but stop encouraging theft from my wallet.
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
safety net their state govt is willing to provide. And absolutely no federal safety net. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. And my favorite, BUPKIS!
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
per kid. And their insurance would have been $2k per year. What's your point.
And with regard to the BSun "contacting" them and interviewing them to get all of the details, I'm pretty sure the family was contacted by Lucy Rameriz and the the interview was faxed in from a Kinkos.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
Its a case of just not wanting it enough. If they don't want enough for themselves why should I ?
Oh BTW see the tagline below for everything you need to know about this issue.
A goverment that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away.
Barry Goldwater
...but do you know what I'm also not thrilled with?
Cowardly little pissants who fake being reasonable in one place while spewing bile in another.
We have a new rule, dantes. It's a special rule, just for you. You will no longer post blogs here unless they are direct copies, word for word, of your dKos diary entries. Posting Rules still apply, mind you: just because your other hangout lets you spew doesn't mean that we have to.
Jeebus. You've been playing this two-faced game with us for, what, two years now? Well, it stops. Now.
Moe
PS: :ka-click: But if you want to play "They banned me! ME!!!!!" instead then we'll be happy to accommodate you. Just say the word.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
never posted a blog on Redstate, and only rarely on Dailykos. I have never been "two-faced" about my political leanings; my comments relate facts, even if my conclusions are very different from everybody elses.
Before I posted anything about this blog on Dailykos I posted a reply here (and was dismissed summarily). If "spewing bile" is taking deep offense to mbecker's inhuman comments, then I am guilty.
I will never run over to Dailykos and play "They banned me! ME!!!". If you don't believe that, then take a look at the last time I posted a kos diary:
In Defense of Redstate in regards to the Augustine/WaPo week last year.
I firmly believe that Redstate is a great site that hosts many interesting views. It's unfortunate that all the care in posting rules (made to keep Redstate more respectable than blogs like kos) backfires when vitriol like mbecker908's begin to represent Redstate in the MSM
You will not show one face here and another there. Do you understand? "Yes" or "no," and only one of those answers will let you keep an active account here.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
I'm doing double shot of expresso.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/8/105939/723
I must say though, if they're right and those kids are on full scholarship to their private school, I'm willing to defend them. I similarly received a full scholarship to a 20K+ school in CT.
And I'm kind of disgusted that a diary ending with advocation of lynching is atop our recommended list. Would you be willing to pull that last comment out, since everything else is pretty substantial?
I want an audit. Not only of the family, I want the school audited. Do I believe that they "might" be on a full ride? Remote. I'd like to see their "donation" records.
It appears that the father's family might be reasonably well heeled. Did they make a "contribution" to the school?
Rip their finances apart. Let's see.
And for the record, I don't give a tinker's dam if they are on full scholarship and their finances are exactly as represented. The feds have no Constitutional authority for this program and if the parents, the extended family, private charity or their state won't help them, let the kid die or let the family declare bankruptcy. They shouldn't get a dime of Kos' tax payments.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
I'm sure mbecker would allow a trial first, with Franz as the judge. And if any of the lawyers got out of hand, Franz would just invite them to a conference in his chambers.
You are obviously too dense to understand the vagueries of hyperbole. Think in terms of the lynching of Dan Rather and Mary Mapes. They were not only left to twist in the wind, they were so dumb they hired a big fan to increase and extend the twisting.
So, no. I stand by my hyperbole. I also stand by my demand that all parties be audited by the IRS. Which, if you've ever had the experience, you'd know is far worse than a quick lynching, twisting and raven pecking.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
I understand hyperbole, my friend. But everything we say on here is, of course, subject to quotation around the blogosphere, and I consider you to be someone very well-respected here on RedState, so I thought I'd comment.
Audits are fine.
for accusing you of being dense. You've been here way to long to have deserved that & I was wrong to tar you with it.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
They ain't real big on any freedom of speech that did not come out of their minds. So they delete me! I'm honored! ;o)
Jim Tomasik
www.mikehuckabee.com
Harry Reid played front man for this story. Pathetic.
I recognize that your last paragraph was meant metaphorically, but we have come down on this sort of thing in the past. Please clarify your intent.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
Is my reply above sufficient?
Again, I'm looking for a "media lynching" that demonstrates the total depravity of the principals as happened with big Dan and stupid Mary.
I will attempt more clarity with my hyperbole in the future.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
continues to be the top person blogging for our side, imho. She does an excellent job putting together this story and disseminating its parts throughout the blogosphere. Check out what she did.
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/10/08/graeme-frost-and-the-perils-of-demo...
Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets
....that say, "Are you in favor of expanding health insurance for poor children?". Of course the vast majority of people are going to say "Yes!". I want a more accurate poll taken that says something like, "are you in favor of taxing working people who buy cigarettes to pay for a middle class entitlement which takes people off of private insurance and puts them in taxpayer funded government coverage?"
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
I've been looking for a website full of semi-retarded mouth breathers.
Looks like I found it.
can we have the carcass please? We'd like to grind him up and donate the protein to the Maricopa County Animal Shelter. It's Franz' charity for this quarter.
Thanks.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
I worry that people are going to think of me as a liberal troll because of my contrarian tendencies.
Then folks like Tim here come along to draw a contrast. Thanks, Tim!
There are a couple of other, minor points of grammar, but that's the one that stands out.
Thanks for tacitly admitting to our importance in the eyes of the Left!
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
MBecker, I'm proud to (virtually) know ya.
(Clearly, Franz helped you with your homework, again.)
without first getting the approval of The Prince!
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
When I started reading the original entry, I was expecting details; but mbecker said absolutely nothing about the children's scholarships. The family pays $500 for the boy and nothing for the brain-injured sister. The school pays the whole tuition.
The combined income of this couple is $50,000.
They bought their house for %55,000 when they had no children in 1991.
mbecker, you need to do more research.
...you might have known then that we're sudden death on accounts that use temporary email services. A pity: you were within acceptable behavior otherwise.
Moe
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
as the Ron Paul blogs were. Moe's getting good target practice at the KosKidz...
...when they see me they'll say, "There goes Loren Wallace,
the greatest thing to ever climb into a race car."
President bush said that a family that earns $83,000 should not qualify for SCHIP. It would be unfair to taxpayers.
Conressmen make over $160,00 a year and get free health insurance. Paid for by taxpayers.
Do any of you think that government employees who make that
in salary shold get free health insurance?
Labrat60
Liberal. Atheist. Scientist. Environmentalist.
Let the mouth-frothing begin.
First of all, I seriously doubt your question was asked in earnest, but I will give you a straight answer.
Point one, the "free health insurance" Members of Congress get is part of the employment package that they receive from the federal government. As is their retirement program which you could also point to (since you're a progressive) as over the top since most Members are multimillionaires and don't "need" the money.
At any rate, since both are part of their compensation package, I have no problem with that.
Point two. OTOH, and I'm long on record about this, I don't think Members or their staffs above a particular GS level should be eligible for ANY benefits, including but not limited to, health insurance. retirement, govt vehicles, paid vacations. etc. My goal would be to to everything possible to force Members and their staff people back into the private sector. I'd also slap a lifetime ban on employment by lobbiests for Members, staff and their immediate families.
Now, with regard to SCHIP, let me reinterate that I don't care one little bit how much the kid's parents make, where they live or where the kid goes to school. I care that the federal government has no Constitutional authority to run this program and it should be shut down altogether for that, and only that, reason. Let the states act if they want to insure kids - or anybody else for that matter.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
I actually did not come to RS to troll. Just to get straghtforward answers from people who have different viewpoints. RS has a lot of people posting who have actually thought about their positions and opinions and are not just regurgitating what the latest talking head has said. This is something that is too rare on both conservative and liberal sites.
As for compensation packages, I don't have a problem with them. If stockholders are OK seeing their profits going to a CEO's huge compensation package, it's their money. I wouldn't ever want to see a law that says what a CEO can make.
Labrat60
Liberal. Atheist. Scientist. Environmentalist.
it's never a good idea to create your signature after coming home from the bar.
Labrat60
Liberal. Atheist. Scientist. Environmentalist.
All snark aside, I think you're right about Congress not deserving padded bonus packages. That being said, you can always uggest they vote to strip their own benefits and see how far it gets you.
President Bush was right about S-CHIP on many levels. The program was designed for children. Congress defined "children" as anyone 25 or younger. The program originally extended benefits up to 200% of poverty income. Congress went for 400%.
I'm not in favor of extending too much in welfare to the Middle Class. Eventually, everyone qualifies, not many have to pay, and the programs crash in financially untenable ruin.
Freedom Fighter in Occupied VA
HTML Help Central for Red Staters