More of that "Huckabee Taste" in the Mouth [updated]
By Mcon Posted in Archived — Comments (32) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
(As a preface this article isn't about religious beliefs. It is about politics.)
As if we needed confirmation that Huckabee is playing the “Christians for Huckabee” Card.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071211/ap_po/huckabee_mormons_2
Note the subtlety of the attack. Note that Huckabee, as a Baptist Pastor, was and is well versed in the lines of attack on the Mormon Church. Lest we forget, his famous “take back America” quote was from a Baptist convention in Salt Lake City, Utah. Note that the SBC website has been engaged in a multipart series on Mormons:
http://www.sbc.net/redirect.asp?url=http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=...
Is there anyone out there who thinks Huckabee was simply being intellectually curious? This kind of dishonesty is even worse than the type of craziness that was displayed in this video:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2007/12/mclaughlin_group_on_m...
Why you ask? One was being sincere (and crazy) while Huckabee is being uber slick in this attack. So slick in fact that most seculars wouldn’t even notice and most evangelicals would simply think badly of Romney without even thinking about the good Pastor Huckabee.
[UPDATE]
If the Huckster continues to be associated with this type of Anti-Mormon bigotry he could stand a good chance of losing a number of the mountain west states where Mormons are a crucial voting block. For a reference Utah is the most reliable state in the union for electing the candidate with the (R) and in the nineties Perot finished ahead of Clinton. Anybody think the several hundred thousand Mormons in Florida had anything to do with 2000?
[UPDATE II]
My father (A Mormon who has only voted 'R' in his life) sent this email to me about the comments Huckabee made.
“Huckabee has shown his true spots. Such men should never be allowed in the presidency, or any other public office for that matter. They cannot be trusted to be even handed. Huckabee would send us all to hell and swear God told him to do it.
Huckabee knows that he is throwing mud and he knows that his accusations are the same tired, scurrilous attacks the fundamentalists love. And that he no doubt taught from his pulpit. I hope that his candidacy will be dead because of his bigotry. I can’t imagine how he would ever be elected, even if he does as Nixon advised and runs to the center during the presidential election. I wouldn’t vote for him even if he were the last Republican standing.”
[UPDATE III]
And now Huckabee has apologized.
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NzE0NWI3NzE5N2VkNGQ2YmZlM...
If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, 'Let us follow other gods' (gods you have not known) 'and let us worship them,' you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you
I think I am going to keep all my replies on Huckabee threads as bible quotes.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
2 Cor. 4: 2
But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
about religious beliefs one way or the other. It is about underhand politics and dishonest attacks. Which is exactly why the the crazy video isn't nearly as bad as what Huckabee is doing.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
To make it easier to lie to people.
He takes advantage of peoples genuine faith and tells them whatever he thinks they want to hear as quickly as he can. He has a self deprecating manner that makes people feel comfortable around him, that he uses to slip past their circle of defenses and then takes ruthless advantage.
Sorry couldn't find a bible quote for this one.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
...because he genuinely believes in them and not because he thinks it would go over well with voters. There's another candidate who does that sort of finger-in-the-wind flip-flopping thing.
There are many instances where Huck stood for his convictions and not for political correctness. E.g. he has publicly stated that he believes that homosexuality is a sin. Also, did it not take some spine to publicly go against the theory of evolution and to reiterate his belief in a literal Adam and Eve? Or how about supporting scholarships for the children of illegal immigrants?
Somehow a SBC pastor getting up and stating that Homosexuality is a sin while running for governor of AR doesn't strike me as a courageous moral stand. On the other hand stating that Aids victims should be quarantined smells like pandering and dangerous pandering you don't want in a republic.
Once again supporting the teaching of I.D. in AR is not taking a stand against a host of enemies. Might as well cast him as William Jennings Bryan in inherit the wind.
And your last example of conviction is that he wants to give scholarships to Illegal Aliens ? Wow let him run for president of the United Way.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Huck's reversal on illegal immigration is beyond unprincipled. He has already started to backpeddle on his tough give them 120 days to leave policy. He is now reframing it along the lines of the Pence touchback plan.
and then blaming the people who caught him at it?
How about his lying about not knowing about Dumond when he had seen at least 12 letters about the guy?
How about his statement that foreign policy should be based on the golden rule rather than the defense of American interests?
February 6 will likely be a wonderous day. We won't have Bubba Jr. to kick around anymore. Hopefully, it will be another 20+ years before a fool preacher decides God wants him to be POTUS.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
I guess we know how Huck will answer the immigration "attack" ad.
I am very, very eager to read that article.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
One can only assume that there is something in the water in Hope Arkansas that helps to develop this special power.
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
Huckabee certainly wasn’t being inquisitive. He was intentionally making a false statement about another religion in an attempt to add fuel to the fire. Simply distasteful and not very Christ like. And very consistent with everything I continue to hear about the men from Hope.
He was intentionally making a false statement about another religion in an attempt to add fuel to the fire.
Of course Huckabee is not supportive of Mormonism at all and probably has negative views of it, like many evangelicals do. By the way, it wouldn't be a false statement according to Mormon apologists (go take a look at Fairmormon wiki for instance).
I would have much more to say, but Red State should not be the place to discuss this.
It is important to note that Huckabee has stayed above the fray on this issue even after incessant questioning from reporters.
Stayed above the fray? Huckabee’s comment was completely voluntary. The reporter didn’t suggest the line or put the thought in his head. I'm sure Huckabee could give a whole sermon on his thoughts about the church. Staying above the fray would have been to make no comment at all and to insist that his campaign and shadow groups do the same.
In can only be two things: Huckabee is as naïve and thoughtless as reported, or he’s crafty, conniving and bigoted.
False - technically no, deliberately misleading - yes.
It's also a common theological attack against the Mormon religion. I find it very doubtful that Huckabee just happened to naively stumble upon this statement. Seems like a well crafted torpedo to me. If anyone raises a stink about it then it just raises the theological attack to more peoples attention while he can sit back and play innocent.
Slick, very slick
Yeah. And if you believe all men are brothers, you believe that Christ is brothers with Adolf Hitler. Nice.
They that are with us are more than they that are against us.
This is how a real man handles such issues. Huckabee, why can't you step up like Tancredo.
Republican presidential candidate Tom Tancredo has denounced an online group called "God Voter.org" for anti-Mormon attacks on fellow candidate Gov. Mitt Romney.
The group, on its Web site, describes itself as a "mainline" Christian organization that will help people "vote for God's (presidential) choice in 2008." A Dec. 4 e-mail addressed to presidential candidates, churches and media organizations said Romney should "identify Mormonism as a Christ-dishonoring cult, publicly sever all ties to it, and ask God and Christians for help."
AdvertisementTancredo, in a statement released yesterday, condemned the group and a recent questionnaire it sent to the campaigns as 'bigoted."
The questionnaire asked candidates 30 questions about their faith and its influence upon their political platforms.
"The 'questionnaire' purports to be intended to help voters in Iowa determine the Christian qualifications of those seeking the Republican nomination for President of the United States," Tancredo said in a statement. "I believe it is anything but Christian in its tone and intent and I call on every candidate to repudiate it."
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American First, Conservative Second, Republican Third
Skippingthe Spanish speaking debate and now this. Atta boy Tancredo. On aside note, I'm suprised Tancredo didn't get more applaud for his decision to skip the Miami debate. I know he's a sidenote, but it was still a principled decision.
Maybe he can't win, but he is now #1 or #2. I like real men, not phonies. (aka the Huckster).
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American First, Conservative Second, Republican Third
I thought it was awesome, him skipping the debate. Wish he wasn't the only one.
They that are with us are more than they that are against us.
Good for Tancredo.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
Heres your link
http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071211/NEWS/71...
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American First, Conservative Second, Republican Third
... but I think I will read that before I jump to any of the wilder conclusions in this diary. There are a number of problems here with the way you've used evidence to indict the Huckabee for religious bigotry.
First of all, your diary purports to be about Mike Huckabee's campaign for President. And yet only one of your three sources has any. That source says that Huckabee has written an upcoming article for the New York Times magazine in which he asks whether Jesus and Satan are brothers. [1] The source does not indicate how it obtained this information, nor does it say in what context Huckabee asks the question, nor how he answers the question. It doesn't even say what kind of article this is, whether it's old material that's being republished, or whether it's new material composed specifically with reference to this campaign. Frankly, I don't know the answers to any of these questions, but I will wait to read it before attempting to characterize it.
Second, the article from the SBC and the video from the McLaughlin Group have no bearing on Mike Huckabee or his campaign. He has neither endorsed the comments of the SBC writer, nor did he have anything to do with Lawrence O'Donnell's obscene rant on the McLaughlin group. Therefore, comparing him to O'Donnell, is as unfair to Huck as O'Donnell was being to Mitt.
Let's be clear about one thing: anti-Mormon prejudice is real and in certain quarters it is rampant. But there is a subtle undercurrent of anti-evangelical prejudice that underscores much of the indignant pro-Romney reaction to the relatively innocuous comments made by Huckabee thus far in the campaign. The only thing Huckabee has said so far in reference to Romney's religion has been A) I don't know enough to comment, or B) You're going to have to ask Mitt about that. The Romney camp has then turned that reticence to say anything about Mormonism into a supposed insult to Mormonism. For example, they have gotten a lot of traction out of Huckabee supposedly "refusing" to say whether Mormonism is a cult. In fact, what he said was, "I'm just not going to go off into evaluating other people's doctrines and faiths. I think that is absolutely not a role for a president." [2] To twist that into some kind of insult is patently absurd. Moreover, it plays on the MSM's not-so-subtle prejudice that Evangelicals, as a group, are sanctimonious and intolerant of other faiths.
Now, if it turns out that in this NYT Magazine article Huckabee attacks Mormonism, or Romney in particular, then Huckabee will have some pretty serious explaining to do. For that reason, I look forward to reading the article. However, I doubt that Huckabee will actually do that. I think it's far more likely that the AP has either got the story wrong, or that they've misrepresented the article in some fashion.
But I'll make you a deal, MCon. If in this article Huckabee actually says that Jesus and Satan are brothers, or if he even implies as much, or if he makes any of the other usual slights against Joseph Smith, Mormon Underwear, polygamy, or the Mormon Church's supposed racism, then I will positively rule out voting for him in the primaries. He will join Ron Paul, Alan Keyes, and Tom Tancredo on my, "absolutely never gonna happen" list. (BTW, those are the only three candidates I have ruled out so far.) I'll even write a diary to that effect. On the other hand, if he doesn't say any of those things, you've got to write a diary admitting that you were wrong. Do we have a deal?
[1] http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071211/ap_po/huckabee_mormons_2
[2]
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jVvZcPSHL9_XQajF5pZYfSx-uyNwD8TASJQ00
Hang all traitors and secessionists! Hang them high!
- Me
If what have said is found to be untrue I will certainly retract.
On that note perhaps you will point me to any of the "wilder" conclusions I have supposedly made.
Perhaps I should have been more explicit regarding sources I cite but I assumed that wasn't necessary. This post was about the first article. The second source corroborates my assertion that was in fact a subtle attack not simple curiosity as Huckebee would know better.
The third site is what is commonly referred to as a "contrast". Perhaps you have heard of that before. The contrast is between an open and direct (and crazed) attack and a more subtle yet dishonest attack.
I'm not quite sure what your fourth paragraph is about but it certainly doesn't have anything to do with my post. Perhaps you should go argue with whoever is saying what you purport.
And lastly, you have a deal and I will hold you to hit.
was that you were comparing the obscene Lawrence O'Donnell rant to something (I'm not sure what) that Huckabee has said about Mormonism. To me, that seemed like an inappropriate statement given that Huckabee has never attacked Mormonism, in "subtle" language or otherwise. If that changes with this NYT article I will be glad to come over to your side and state, in unequivocal language, that Huckabee has crossed the line and no longer deserves serious consideration as a presidential candidate.
I'm not really sure I understand your explanation about the second source. Although Huckabee is a Southern Baptist minister, he did not write that article in the SBC, and like Mitt Romney he is not obligated to support every position his Church or one of the official organs of his Church expresses. So the opinions in that article can not be attributed to Huckabee any more than the racial policies the LDS prior to 1978 can be laid at the feet of Mitt Romney. They are both illegitimate arguments to make.
Hang all traitors and secessionists! Hang them high!
- Me
I was indeed contrasting the two attacks, and yes I do believe this was indeed an attack. Of course, I will stick to our little deal if that turns out to not be true.
I am not trying to claim Huckabee believes everything in that sbc article. On the contrary, I am simply using that article to help assert that Huckabee would know better than to ask this question. Simply put, there is no way Huckabee doesn't already have a fairly decent knowledge of how to attack the Mormon church. Thus he would have no grounds to claim ignorance and then ask a question like this. Once again you are seeing arguments that aren't there.
... I want to see that NYT article before I make any decision about it. If it turns out that Huckabee has crossed a line and indulged in a religious attack on Romney and/or the Mormon Church, then I can not vote for him in good conscience. But if it turns out that this is just another example of the MSM trying to play evangelicals against Mormons by taking a quote out of context, then I think the Romney supporters will have played into the media's hands by reacting this way.
The bottom line, for both candidates, is that the evangelical v. Mormon issue is poison to the Republican coalition that either candidate will have to rely on to win next November. If Huck uses it to try to consolidate evangelical support, he will be fracturing a large part of the party's base in the mountain states. By the same token, if Romney aggravates the issue by playing the woe-is-me card he'll only annoy conservative Christians, many of whom are wary of his Mormonism anyway. And keep in mind that Romney must win 75% or more of the evangelical vote in order to win the general election. He can't compensate, as he did in Massachusetts, by running to the left on social issues because he's already moved too far to the right to make that work. Either way the chips fall, if one of these guys wins he's going to have to play extra nice with members of the other guy's religion.
Hang all traitors and secessionists! Hang them high!
- Me
Huckabee has been deceptively sleezy. Now, he is upset over Romney's negative, but fair and truthful, ad on illegal immigration . I'm really starting to dislike this smarmy huckster. I'm a SoCon, but I think Rudy jumped into fourth behind Mitt, Fred and McCain. I just can't stomach Huckabee. He makes me ill.