The Shunning of Ann Coulter
By Nathan Nelson Posted in Special Events — Comments (192) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Promoted by Jeff, with confidence that the glaring omission in the listed examples of "the conservative movement's brillant men and women" was simply an oversight. ;-)
Yesterday at CPAC, Ann Coulter said:
I was going to have a few comments on the other Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards, but it turns out you have to go into rehab if you use the word "faggot," so I - so kind of an impasse, can't really talk about Edwards.
When I blogged on the PandaGate scandal, I swore to myself that I would never support or defend anyone who uses the same kind of hateful rhetoric that Amanda Marcotte uses. I didn't realize that this would mean having to denounce a conservative celebrity just days after joining the Republican Party and declaring myself a conservative. Be that as it may, that's exactly what I'm doing: I'm denouncing her. And I'm saying that all other conservatives should do the same thing.
Read on . . .
How can we do anything else? How can we condemn John Edwards' campaign for hiring someone who uses hateful and profane rhetoric and then look the other way when one of our own uses that same kind of rhetoric? Indeed, all of the Republican presidential candidates - and especially those in attendance at CPAC - should denounce Coulter. She should never again be invited to CPAC. She should, for that matter, never again be invited to another conservative or Republican event. She should be totally and utterly shunned by the conservative movement. We don't need her; if anything, she has become a hindrance and an eyesore, a figure who liberals can point to and say: "Look. That's why you don't want to vote Republican." She can't possibly be drawing anyone into the conservative movement. If anything, she's got to be decreasing our numbers.
You know, the conservative movement features a lot of brilliant men and women. Erick Erickson, Michelle Malkin, Sean Hannity, Ann Althouse, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham - these are names all of us know, and there are so many more. Ann Coulter used to be one of those brilliant conservatives. But now all she does is come out on the national stage once every few months, say a few outrageous and indefensible things, and proceed to make the conservative movement look like the horrible ogre that liberals say that it is. Now all she does is say these awful things that increase her celebrity and her book sales but do nothing to further the interests of American conservatism. Yes, it is high time for the conservative movement to move on. Ann Coulter's got to go. I hope every single one of the Republican presidential candidates disown her, I hope Vice President Cheney disowns her, I hope President Bush disowns her, I hope CPAC disowns her, and I hope every single conservative in America disowns her. The conservative movement will only be the better for it.
Update: So far, Ed Morrissey (Captain's Quarters), Dean Barnett (Townhall), Michelle Malkin, and John Hawkins (Right Wing News) all seem to agree with me to some degree. I'm in good company!
Update II: Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, and Mitt Romney have all repudiated Coulter's remarks.
...here. Be glad that you did - my head is still hurting.
Honestly, I'm getting a bit sick of all the 2008 primary coverage when Iowa's nearly a year away. So I saw another Romney article and went (skip)... going back to read it, yeah, I agree... that is head-hurtingly hard to follow.
Still doesn't keep me from my thesis of that comparing Coulter's remark to Marcotte's ramblings is highly disingenuous, though.
"I could explain, but that would be very long, very convoluted, and make you look very stupid. Nobody wants that... except maybe me."
I actually did get the joke, but that doesn't make it all better. She should absolutely not have said what she said, and it absolutely is as bad as the things that Amanda Marcotte said. You might not think this is deserving of condemnation, but as a gay guy who has had the word "f****t" flung at me by people who weren't even sure I was gay (I don't usually broadcast it) simply because I didn't date girls, I disagree with you. That word is as hurtful to me as any racial slur would be to a person of color. And before I'm accused of being a liberal gay rights activist, please remember that it's only been a day or so since I wrote a post here condemning hate crime legislation. I don't agree with the gay rights lobby on much, but one thing I can safely join them on is opposition to the use of the word "f****t."
In any event, I really believe that this is as bad as what Amanda Marcotte said, and I think that conservatives should disown Coulter for it - not to mention the million other things she's said and done in the past that are equally reprehensible, if not moreso. I sincerely hope that Vice President Cheney will be the first to disown her.
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
I would also add that whatever you may think about the Log Cabin Republicans and other unaffiliated gay Republicans like myself, we've chosen the Republican Party even though there are quite a few who will continue to hate us no matter where we're at politically. We could be 100% conservative and still be loathed just because we're attracted to people of the same gender, something we can't help. And yet we put up with this and stick with the Republican Party because we believe strongly in conservative principles. I think we deserve some respect, certainly more respect than having to hear the word "f****t" come out of a prominent conservative's mouth at the biggest conservative event of the year. We'd rather not be the punchline to every conservative joke.
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
Let me just say this, IF Coulter had said something else that was offensive to another group, I would feel the same way.
Is she entertaining? Yes
Is she right on most of the issues? Yes
Is she a loose cannon who often says things which are ad hominem, deliberately hurtful, and designed to lower the tone of the debate? Yes, Yes, and Yes.
So she is fine as a stand up comic, but no serious Right wing politician, or pundit should have ANYTHING TO DO WITH HER.
She is mean spirited, hateful, and beyond the pale. Just like that crazy man Micheal Savage. As conservatives, we ought not be like the liberals. I don't need a conservative version of Randi Rhodes, Al Frankin, Janine Garafalo, or Amanda Marcotte.
I have been saying this on right wing blogs for over a year, but few agree with me. MARK MY WORDS. this continued infatuation with this skinny bomb thrower will cause more harm to either a candidate, or the movement.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
Conservatives do not have 'friends' in the major media outlets, and Ann Coulter is often used as a cardboard cut-out of what a conservative stands for by these 'journalists'. Whereas they may choose to not magnify Marcotte's anti-religious/Christian/Catholic slurs, they most certainly will continue to propagate that the GOP is the party of hate.
The bottom line is that Ann Coulter's views on issues do not give her a free pass to make an irresponsible allusion to a homosexual slur used by the Grey's Anatomy star.
The sooner that conservatives (economic and social) abandon their support for Coulter the better. The tag-line of most major news stories is now dominated by Coulter's stupid joke--not about conservative ideas and GOP candidates for president.
She is mean-spirited, and says unethical things that hurt the conservative movement, hurt debate over serious issues, continues the anti-gay stereotype that the GOP carries, and most importantly hurts people.
She is free to express whatever opinions that pop into her head, but I do not think conservatives of any stripe should openly support her as she is as bad as the (oft-liberal) people who she condemns.
Financially by buying her books and watching her show (does she have one yet?). But by all means, this level of discourse has no place in politics.
You might notice that even Rush doesn't tend to go to events like CPAC. Hannity can get away with it, because, over all, he's a nicer guy and more careful of what he says. But then, unlike Coulter, Rush and Savage know where they stand: As entertainment only. Time for Coulter to learn then same.
There are those who look on Dresden and Tokyo and Hiroshima as some of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by man. I look on them and thank the perpetrators for saving millions.
raven
There's also nothing wrong with not buying her books, turning off the TV when Side Show Ann makes an appearance to spew her venom and also letting those hosts who's shows that she appears on know that you have no interest in her or her views or their show for giving her a forum to spew her garbage.
But I support her right to be Side Show Ann all she wants, I just will change the channel.
_______________________________
Dennis Miller for President...no more wimps!
as I hit post I lost my wireless connection and my post!
Nate, what I was attempting to convey was...
I am an ultra right winger, gun totin, Catholic with five kids who could care less what you do with consenting adults in the privacy of your own home. We could be neighbors and based on your tone and inflection I suspect we might even be friends.
Defending Ann C is NOT what we have to do, it's what the left and the media wants us to do, she CAN be abrasive, so what, people have said that about me from time to time and still respected me for what I brought to the table.
The link to the other discussion from yesterday and Ann's endorsement is a bogus discussion IMO, as part of the contention is that we as conservatives have to be perfect 100% of the time or all hells gonna break lose.
Yesterday one of the speakers at CPAC talked about 80/20, where on the issues we as a party are totally in agreement on 80% of the big issues and the 20% we don't necessarily agree but are not enemies. Does that sound right or apply in your case? I know it does for me and I don't need 100% agreement to be able to forge ahead on the big stuff and compromise on the little stuff.
When I saw the beginning of the debate over Ann's reference yesterday, a frequent poster was quick but not the first to jump at the chance to call us out for it. He wasn't the first to do it because I think his first stop was the ultimate in BS and hypocrisy, a defense of AlGores buying carbon credits from his own company, where he happens to also be the ONLY buyer so far. If there were time stamps on posts you could see it but I was following both and thought that this is the ultimate in shoveling very smelly stuff from barns..
http://www.redstate.com/stories/liberals/friday_afternoon_poll_electric_...
The left wants it all their way, I can defend this, but how dare one of your people say something offensive!!!
Does this makes the Ann C thing any less? No, but for me, on at least 80%, she is right on. The rest is not that big a deal.
Well done is better than well said. —Benjamin Franklin
But so are Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage (though the latter not as often). The problem is that, like both the above, she serves her function as Entertainment only. She is not just abrasive (which is occasionally neccessary) but childish and increasingly uncouth.
By her books, go to her appearances, watch whatever how she's on but Keep Her Out Of Politics. She can talk about them all she wants like Savage and Limbaugh, but keep her hands off.
There are those who look on Dresden and Tokyo and Hiroshima as some of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by man. I look on them and thank the perpetrators for saving millions.
Hi Nate,
Welcome to the party.
I think Ann's comments were out-of-line and damaging to her party, and I don't want to see conservatives defending her like all the lefties defended Marcotte. Disgusting.
Also, while you're in conservative circles I hope you can learn to differentiate between 'haters' and those who oppose sexual immorality and support the traditional family. I'm strongly opposed homosexuality and other forms of sexual immorality because it is destructive to society and ends up hurting lots of people. I think homosexuality is mostly environmental, though there is a genetic disposition (which is supported by twin studies among other things). So even though people don't choose it, it is not healthy and it can be changed, though it is difficult.
Lefties love to call me a homophobic bigot, even though I have several gay friends, even though I'm just as considerate and kind towards gays as anyone else, and even though I love them just as much as other people who do things I disapprove of. If anything I try to be MORE loving towards gays as I feel they have such negative opinions of conservative Christians.
I understand why some people can see opposition to homosexuality and equate it with hate, but I hope you can see things from our perspective and understand how disapproving of certain behaviors doesn't necessarily prevent us from caring about the individual.
Hi Blueray. Thanks for the welcome, and I do understand the difference between bigots and those who are legitimately opposed to homosexuality. I obviously don't agree with you, but I don't think you are bigoted or that you hate me. To be honest, I don't typically broadcast my sexual orientation, so really all I'm looking for in the world is not to be discriminated against if someone does find out about it and not to be criminally penalized for behavior within the privacy of my own home. Other than that, I don't expect to have anything handed to me on a silver platter, and if I want any legal protections for future relationships or what have you I acknowledge that I need to get majority support for them and go through legislative processes, not through activist courts.
Anyway, thanks again for the welcome. :)
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire
You can either live in a world where the above applies or you can live in a world where peoples feelings aren't hurt by errant comments. You can't live in a world where both apply.
I don't even know where to begin or end with this. Do we start editing old books to make them less offensive, sequester them, burn them ? If words can be hurtful should every knife be a safety knife, all sharp corners rounded ?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Le us from now on refer to Coulter as a four letter word that starts with a c and ends with a t and refers to a female body part, lets see how long that flys on Red State.
As I said before this has NOTHING to do with free speech, no one yanked her off of the podium and put her in cuffs. It has to do with what one chooses to say in polite company.
Or, lets put it this way. Would you possibly imagine Ronald Reagan using the same joke?
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
If Redstate was a comedy club it would kill the site. Its not a comedy club.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Ann Coulter has been called every name under the sun by the left. She demonstrates absurdity by saying the absurd thing. That's her schtick. Yes, she ups the anty-but that's because with the left nothing is off limits. Try being a pro-life, bible believing, one-way to heaven only, creationist for just one day. People like me can be attacked all day long with all kinds of nasty names with no-one coming to our defense. But if you are black or is it African American?, gay, and an illegal immigrant, you are the new "off limits from jokes" gang. Give me a break. Conservatives are gonna loose, because we don't stand up for ourselves, we are too wishy washy,
we want to get along with everybody, AND WE EAT OUR OWN. That's why the left wipes the floor with us. How about staying UNITED for once instead of feeding another one of ours to the lions?
Try being a pro-life, bible believing, one-way to heaven only, creationist for just one day. People like me can be attacked all day long with all kinds of nasty names with no-one coming to our defense. But if you are black or is it African American?, gay, and an illegal immigrant, you are the new "off limits from jokes" gang.
I just spent a couple of weeks on my personal blog going to bat for pro-life, bible-believing, one-way to heaven only, creationists against Amanda Marcotte and the John Edwards campaign. Now I turn around and Ann Coulter has the nerve to use a slur that made me afraid to go to school some days at my Catholic high school. If we're going to take on people like Amanda Marcotte, we're going to have to be consistent about it. We can't have these kind of people speaking at our biggest national events as if they have some kind of credibility.
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
Bible believing Christian that believes that there is only one way to Heaven.
But I don't think it is really Christlike to jump into the muck and start slinging it around, because they did it too.
And when it comes to those who hate us, the Bible tells us to kill them with kindness-to "heap burning coals" on their heads.
So yes, it bothers me that people think Christians are fair game, but then the Bible also said that the world would hate us. Stand up for what is right and good, but revenge shouldn't be the tool of Christians.
As I believe Ann considers herself to be a Christian, I don't know where she gets the idea she can say some of these things.
Can anyone see Jesus ever making jokes about f****s?
If fact, the NT is clear that the church needs to be upfront about confronting other believers when they stray from sound doctrine and proper behavior.
Haven't you ever called someone you know "retard"?
I call my brother that all the time, and it's OK because he is in no way mentally handicapped. My co-worker calls me "homo" or "fag" sometimes just for wearing a pink tie. It's OK because I am not gay.
If she called Barney Frank a f****t, I would condemn that, but she's talking about a straight guy who is just really "pretty" and carries a compact. I mean cmon, you have to admit, that is pretty gay.
Don't get mad, get even, start making fun of her and call her anorexic or something. One thing our new gay friend Nathan should learn is that we on this side of the aisle are not crybabies. We don't get all mad and sue someone just because they offend us.
Don't get me wrong, I don't care for her too much. I especially don't like her message board. Those of you who have posted there will know what I mean. It is the most closed-minded group of folks you will ever meet. GOD FORBID you are pro-immigration, they will crucify you with your first post and probably ban you. (speaking from personal experience)
"Life is too short, can't we all just eat pork and kill some terrorists?"
Sure, retard and f****t are a little juvenile but its not offensive and you make a great point. I have liberal friends who call Ann Coulter "Man Coulter" because they think she was born a man. Is she going to demand apologies or raise sympathy cash. No, its all in good clean fun. Your signature is great. Life is indeed to short.
You've been here for less than an hour and you copy and pasted urbandictionary.com to reply to me? I'm flattered. I'm not going to play mind reader especially when it comes to Ann Coulter's mind. I'm not going to call Ann Coulter a homophobe because I have no way of knowing.
kind of record for cut and paste vitriol.
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller
Sorry West Seattle I may have been just a little to harsh but don't tell me that calling someone a f****t doesn't mean that they aren't referring to a homosexual. She hurt the CPAC and everyone who attended that event . I bet Mitt Romney is really mad at her he is a good fiscal conservative and would make a good president but the last thing he needs to get is endorsements by homophobic or at least percieved to be homophobic by the majority of centrist , moderates, and other independent voters who Romney or whoever gets the republican nomination will need to win. I'm for Dr. Ron Paul but obviously he is too libertarian to win. I just don't want to see the taxing democrats to win. The moderate and centrists BLOGS where I usually hang out are appalled at what happened at the CPAC and many feel that the GOP tent is not big enough for them. Extremists like Ann Coulter aren't good for the Republican party.
I'm not going to post this in both threads so consider this a reply to both. First of all, Mitt Romney is not responsible for what people who might vote for him say or do. She isn't on his payroll. My point about the word itself is that it has been cheapened over time and no longer automatically refers to a homosexual. Did Ann make an ass out of herself? Yes, because she overshadowed an important conservative event but I'm not going to call her a homophobe. She said in the Q&A after the speech that gays should be Republicans because we're for low taxes and we're soft on crime. Except for same-sex marriage, we are the pro-gay party. What's homophobic about that? At any rate, your apology is accepted.
Now, had he shown the initiative to serial cut-and-paste from several sources, that would have shown ingenuity and originality. Any baboon can cut and paste from one single source! As he proved!
Sorry West Seattle I may have been just a little to harsh but don't tell me that calling someone a f****t doesn't mean that they aren't referring to a homosexual. She hurt the CPAC and everyone who attended that event . I bet Mitt Romney is really mad at her he is a good fiscal conservative and would make a good president but the last thing he needs to get is endorsements by homophobic or at least percieved to be homophobic by the majority of centrist , moderates, and other independent voters who Romney or whoever gets the republican nomination will need to win. I'm for Dr. Ron Paul but obviously he is too libertarian to win. I just don't want to see the taxing democrats to win. The moderate and centrists BLOGS where I usually hang out are appalled at what happened at the CPAC and many feel that the GOP tent is not big enough for them. Extremists like Ann Coulter aren't good for the Republican party.
Please ban this guy/gal/whoever.
This is clearly abuse of the website.
Make him/her/it come back again using another of his/her/its 16,000 usernames that haven't yet been banned.
That was earlier today. Not really sure what time. This was one crazy person who chased me down in every thread I went to. There was an apology and since I'm a softy, I accepted it. This person may or may not be gone but its all good now. We'll see.
No one comes to this blog that naive. Everyone knows the rules about profanity.
Honestly, he wouldn't even use that language on dkos or any of the other leftist blogs.
He's just trying to see how much pornographic language he can put on the site to poison the eyes of the reader.
He's like the guy who jogs naked by the elementary school every day just to see how many kids will look at him.
He should be banned. I promise you he's been banned several times before.
Haven't you ever called someone you know "retard"?
Yes, actually. But I've never done it while I was speaking publicly. Y'know, if this were an Ann Coulter event I probably wouldn't have much of a problem with what she said. I would think it's reprehensible, but I wouldn't have blogged about it. This wasn't an Ann Coulter event. This was the biggest conservative event of the year, and all but one of the Republican presidential candidates was there. They now find themelves in the uncomfortable position of either having to continue to associate themselves with Coulter or having to disassociate themselves with her, either of which can bring backlash for them. Her irresponsible idiocy hurt the conservative movement and gave people like Howard Dean ammunition.
The problem with Ann Coulter is she thinks every event is an Ann Coulter event. CPAC shouldn't invite her next year unless they want CPAC 2008 to also become an Ann Coulter event.
Don't get mad, get even, start making fun of her and call her anorexic or something. One thing our new gay friend Nathan should learn is that we on this side of the aisle are not crybabies. We don't get all mad and sue someone just because they offend us.
I don't want anybody to sue her, and the biggest part of my problem with her has nothing to do with the personal offense she caused me. My problem with her is that whereas the headlines coming from CPAC could have been about the presidential candidates and their plans for America, those headlines are now dominated by Ann Coulter's use of the word "f****t." Her book sales will go up, but what will it do for the conservative movement? Absolutely nothing positive. I'm not saying sue her. I'm saying think twice before inviting her to speak at a reputable political event that features people we hope to put in the White House.
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
used as an insult.
It is another one of those things I don't say, and don't allow my kids to say.
Not sure that this is anymore defensible than "f****t," other than the fact that there are more oranized groups out there ready to get angry over "f****t" than "retard."
to put in my two cents. Sheesh folks, lighten up!!! I don't even know where to begin... What a lot of hand-wringing going on here! I thought what Ann said was funny! Yes I do AND I thought it was clever! My only complaint with her was the venue. She should have known it was a quieter conservative crowd. That would have been a great joke on RedEye (funny new Fox show BTW - a conservative version of politically incorrect). What made it so clever/funny was that the OTHER "F" word (as it will now forever be known - good grief!)is not an insult about being gay, it is an insult about being effeminate. Which John Edwards clearly is!!! Why do you think Rush calls him the Breck Girl??? People have found men who are effeminate funny since before Ancient Greece. Even in modern pop culture on Will and Grace there are jokes every episode that mock Jack for being effeminate and most of those jokes come from his best friend who is also gay! All Ann did was marry that idea to the basketball player who had the nerve to actually have a negative opinion about gay people. I mean, you have to go to rehab because you don't like to be around gays? Is rehab the new version of re-education camps? Criminey!
right.
But rights to say things and using that right come with consequences.
What she said was tasteless.
I don't think we need to go out looking for ways to make her words seem less offensive.
I think she should be told thanks but no thanks as far as participating as a speaker, indtroducer or anything else at GOP political functions.
because she can put butts in the seats...and those butts have checkbooks.
Interesting...seems(IMO) that for every person offended by this, there are just as many that think it's about time Rep/Con come out swinging...not that it's right, but..
" in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years."
Abe Lincoln
But we also should be hitting above the belt. Let the mudslingers stay in the entertainment sector. They're fun to watch.
Let's NOT allow their level of discourse become SOP.
There are those who look on Dresden and Tokyo and Hiroshima as some of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by man. I look on them and thank the perpetrators for saving millions.
...we should all be using that level of discourse.
But in the run-up to 2008 we should also not make the mistake of bringing a knife to a gun fight!
Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Senior writer for The Hinzsight Report
I would point out that by using words like "f****t," the only people you're knifing/gunning down are voters. The idea that gays and lesbians vote in a bloc for Democrats is a liberal lie. I know a lot of independent and Republican gays and lesbians - I'm one of the latter. It would be a mistake to assume that conservatives can safely attack gays/lesbians because we're not voting conservative anyway. That's just what the liberals want you to believe.
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
J.
So I would guess you're not in favor of the efforts to pass a "Flag Burning" prohibition law then? That is also a form of free speech. I happen to think the efforts to get that law passed were misguided, but I do understand that for many people, there are such a thing as "Fighting words", and burning the flag is one of those sorts of words.
I disagree with Side Show Ann's words, but support her right to be a loon on the right, just wish she would do it in a padded room.
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Dennis Miller for President...no more wimps!
My position wavers on the matter, mostly I come to the conclusion that if we need a law we are done for.
I even support your right to call her sideshow Ann even if it detracts from otherwise good positions.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Hey, I am not saying that Ann Coulter doesn't have the right to say any despicable thing she wants to. She absolutely had the right to say what she said. It was perfectly legal. But do you know what right the rest of us have? Freedom of association. Vice President Cheney, the presidential candidates, CPAC, et al., have the freedom to choose not to associate with someone who says the kind of things that Coulter says. Exercising our freedom of association doesn't in any way hinder Coulter's freedom of speech.
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
What you're advocating is group action to punish her. Thats ok you certainly are entitled to your viewpoint. Just don't be surprised if ostracizing people who use language isn't high on anyone else's list. Republicans are too often on the wrong end of the hate speech club. Its a game invented by liberals, they write the rules, and own the board, all we can do is just not play.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I suppose you could look at it as group action to punish her. I see it more as group action to protect the group. Ann Coulter did serious damage to the conservative movement yesterday, and this is certainly not the first time. She's more of a liability than an asset. Why shouldn't the group shun her? She seems to care more about her book sales than about conservatism in any case.
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
Ann, Rush, Dennis Miller the "Entertainers" have done great good for the movement. When I was growing up conservatives were thought of as being bloodless stiffs at best, or stupid rednecks . There was an old joke "Whats a red white and blue republican ? A man with a redneck a bluenose and a white sheet" Thats hate speech. Its not the least of the things I have heard from our ever so tolerant and high minded liberal brethren.
We could have whined and moaned about the slights. When LBJ broadcast the commercial of the little girl being blown up by an Atom Bomb we could have screamed and yelled. Instead we took it and from people like Rush and Ann we learned to laugh at them. We learned to see the hollowness of their beliefs, the narrow minded emptiness.
I realize this offends you, but its only because you let it. If you keep letting it offend you, you will always allow others to control and define you.
Rational Liberal in his quest to provoke and offend in the other thread demonstrated the utter bankruptcy of liberalism in these matters. His first response was provoke to divide, and then pit against. The leviathan of the state then becomes necessary. The mommy needed to prevent her children from fighting. As long as we make these appeals we are forever children of the state.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
There are really several problems with what you're saying here, Joliphant. First, my problem with what Coulter said really has more to do with the context in which she said it than any personal offense she may have caused me. If she had said this at one of her own events, on television, etc., I would likely have never blogged about it at all. Instead, she chose an event at which all but one of the presidential candidates would be speaking and at which the Vice President, whose own daughter is a lesbian, would be speaking. If she didn't intend to turn this into a massive scandal, she could have fooled me.
Also, this doesn't offend me just because I let it. It offends me because it is objectively offensive. There is nothing that isn't offensive about the word "faggot" to someone who has had that word used against him many times in the past. Call me a crybaby or whatever you want to. I don't think it's being a crybaby to expect enough respect not to have a bigoted slur spoken at the biggest conservative political event of the year.
I don't dispute that all of the people you mention have done great work for the conservative movement. I would also add that I don't lump Rush Limbaugh or Dennis Miller in with Ann Coulter for a variety of reasons. My point now is simply this: Ann Coulter isn't doing anything for the conservative movement at this point except hurting it for the sake of driving up her book sales. I don't know how anyone could dispute that. What positive work has she done lately for the conservative movement? Anyone?
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
watching the Republicans run away from Ann... it's sad how reactionary Republicans can be. Quite honestly, this is the very reason Republicans/Christians have been skewered so badly. It's as if they do not want any taint by assosciation, and so they are so judgemental, that in the end they judge and judge and judge until they are completely alone. This is the reason why popular culture has so completely turned away from Church as well. Because Christians are so caught up in polishing up that flesh, trying to be their brother's keeper instead of minding their own hearts. Oh, well, I guess you really do reap what you sow.
"In any event, I really believe that this is as bad as what Amanda Marcotte said"
Really???? Really???? Oh, come on...
and that is pretty sad. I guess our political soiree's now have to be as blue as an episode of South Park.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
I will admit it is crude and vulgar and certainly not for children, but geez, it is funny and does have a point.
March 03, 2007
Coulter Said What? (Bumped)
Ann Coulter is speaking at the moment, and drawing a huge crowd -- with longer lines than those for the Rudy Giuliani. She's definitely one of the stars here at CPAC, and I listened to the audio stream for a bit while she opened her speech. I had to take a phone call, though, and I missed a critical, and infuriating, throw-away line. Michelle Malkin reports (from two chairs down):
"I'd say something about John Edwards, but if you use the word 'f[****]t', you have to go to rehab."
Yeah, that's just what CPAC needs -- an association with homophobia. Nice work, Ann.
At some point, Republicans will need to get over their issues with homosexuality. Regardless of whether one believes it to be a choice or a hardwired response, it has little impact on anyone but the gay or lesbian person. We can argue that homosexuality doesn't require legal protection, but not when we have our front-line activists referring to them as "f[****]s" or worse. That indicates a disturbing level of animosity rather than a true desire to allow people the same rights and protections regardless of their lifestyles.
Ann Coulter can be an entertaining and incisive wit. Unfortunately, she can also be a loose cannon, and CPAC might want to consider that the next time around.
UPDATE: Sean Hackbarth has the audio.
UPDATE II and BUMP: Fascinating discussion in the comments. Since this is likely going to remain a hot topic today, let me add a few more thoughts in response to the points raised.
First, criticizing Coulter's use of the word "f[****]t" is not a suppression of free speech; it is an exercise of free speech. We're not advocating her arrest for using the word. We're just saying it was stupid, unnecessary, and hateful. This is no different than Melissa McEwan calling Christians "Christofascist Godbags" and Amanda Marcotte's incendiary hate speech about Catholics. We howled about that when John Edwards hired them; why do we defend Coulter's appearance at CPAC?
Also, if CPAC continues to invite Coulter to these events, then unfortunately, these little rhetorical bombs reflect on conservatives. We just spent most of the week criticizing John McCain for not meeting the conservative base at CPAC. If Coulter said this in an interview on her own, it would not have reflected on CPAC or conservatives but on herself. Yesterday, though, she used our platform for that little nugget of vileness -- and some in the audience cheered her for it. Conclusions can reasonably be drawn from that.
I had to laugh when someone noted the use of the word "fag" and "f[****]t" in Fast Times at Ridgemont High and the song "Money For Nothing". Yes, they're there, but we're not supposed to think highly of the people that use them. In the song, the "voice" is a whiny, shallow man (a physical laborer, for a bit of class warfare from Dire Straits) who thinks that musicians do nothing all day long. It's a critique, not a celebration, of that voice, from a musician obviously tired of hearing those comments from naysayers. In Fast Times, it's used for a realistic view of how teenage boys ridicule anything different. In fact, both of these comparisons show one of the problems with Coulter: she's juvenile. She's arguing at the level of a thirteen-year-old.
A few commenters compared "f[****]t" to the N-word, saying that gays use it as a term of endearment and then get hypocritically offended when straights use it to describe them. I'm not familiar with that level of usage, but let's say it's true. If Ann Coulter got up and desceribed Barack Obama as a "n----r" as part of a joke at an event like CPAC, would you think that reflected well on conservatives? Uh, no.
Bottom line: Coulter's remark was indefensible. She had the right to say it, but that doesn't make her right for saying it, and she deserves every bit of criticism she's getting.
...from Captain Ed's site at least give him the courtesy of a h/t and a link back
sheesh
Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Senior writer for The Hinzsight Report
SHE WASNT BASHING GAYS.
She was calling out a STRAIGHT guy for ACTING gay.
It's the same as making fun of white kids from the suburbs who act and dress like gangster rappers. It doesn't mean you hate blacks, its just funny.
"Life is too short, can't we all just eat pork and kill some terrorists?"
It's the same as making fun of white kids from the suburbs who act and dress like gangster rappers. It doesn't mean you hate blacks, its just funny.
You didn't just call those white guys the "n word." Why is that?
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
Hell they deserve each other what a losing pair. If he's nominated we better get ready for the 2nd Clinton Administration She is our Jane Fonda and he belongs to a so called religion that is just a small step above the HEAVONS GATE CULT. Tell me who is going to be the vice presidential candidate if Romney gets the nomination David Koresh oh I forget he died at Waco. I guess he can pardon Warren Jeffs and get him to run with him since they both believe in polgamy. I belong to a real church not one that believes that pepsi is a sin and that Jesus was hanging out with Pocahontas after the Resurrection in Pre-Columbian North America. We better nominate McCain or Rudy and not this flip flopping cult member. The truth hurts doesn't it. He's unacceptable to many evangelicals.
In a libertarian world even nuts like dano714 & ann coulter can speak freely Let all the idiots speak thats what free speech is about dano714 helped romney by his ignorance as much as ann coulter hurt romney with her ignorant statements. Vote for Dr. Ron Paul.
But even I don't think they, as a rule, conflate "maintenance of private property" with "government action." In the future, are libertarians brain dead?
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We are all heroes, you and Boo and I. Hamsters and rangers everywhere, rejoice!
You're gone. Hit the contact link if you think we've done you ill.
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We are all heroes, you and Boo and I. Hamsters and rangers everywhere, rejoice!
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Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes
That's irrelevant, though. It was in extremely poor taste, offensive to innocent parties, and not on point. Edwards presents many targets for ridicule without swerving onto the sidewalk to run down gays, too.
Coulter is what she is, and this is her shtick. The reaction is what she craves, good or bad.
She sees her mission as giving the left a dose of their own. To me, repulsive blathering is reprehensible from either direction.
You have to be kidding.
Coulter will be all over cable TV for the next month. She will then have ample opportunity to make fools of her detractors.
first, I think this whole thing is a bunch of pc crap. However, IF one of the big dogs here had posted a diary, and had used the term "f****t" in the same way, or applied it to a perosn in the arena...what would have been the "collective" action taken, if any by RS?...
RS is popular, and is hit on many times...might even have political impact....would that be o.k. here?..
" in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years."
Abe Lincoln
the word would be edited out of the page, accompanied by a stern warning. If the poster had history, (big dog) the warning would be all. If it was a new poster, the honeymoon would be over.
Because the people behind the scene have decided that their site will be a certain way..civil.
So, if I or someone refers to JE as the Breck Girl...or a step further and says "light in his loafers"...might be scene as personal attacks.....
" in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years."
Abe Lincoln
his sexuality, but more because of his pretty looks-sort of plastic like a Ken doll.
But then maybe whoever coined the phrase meant it in a way other than I took it.
...sought to induce people to buy a product because said individual has impressive and/or beautiful hair, then I'd say that fits Edwards pretty well.
refers to Edwards as 'Silky Pony'. Same kind of thing. It's a reference to his apparent obsession with his hair. Not exactly hard-hitting political commentary, but not a reference to sexual orientation either.
you lost me there. Does that refer to a dancer? "Light in his loafers" sounds like a Shel Silverstein book!
And civil appears to have different meanings at RS than say at Movealong.org
yes, and civil is different in those example...and civil is different in many other areas...
I just don't get the outrage...if it had been done by a canidate..well, then sure, expectations are different...but Ann?
I call on Ann to shimmy over to RS and splain herself...please!!! Keep us all united, Ann!!!
" in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years."
Abe Lincoln
It's Where she said it.
Eventually she's going to have to learn how to behave in otherwise polite company.
There are those who look on Dresden and Tokyo and Hiroshima as some of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by man. I look on them and thank the perpetrators for saving millions.
It's Where she said it.
Eventually she's going to have to learn how to behave in otherwise polite company.
As much as I would have been personally offended if Coulter had said this at one of her events or even on TV, I wouldn't have blogged a word about it. She said it at the biggest conservative event of the year with all but one of the Republican presidential candidates in attendance. Not kosher.
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
If your sister passes gas in church, do you march her to the front of the congregation and fan the air behind her, or do you try to minimize it until it goes away?
Think about it.
A proper comparison would be if she did it at a graduation ceremony.
And it's not hauling her up to the front and fanning. It's escorting her out as discreetly as possible.
There are those who look on Dresden and Tokyo and Hiroshima as some of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by man. I look on them and thank the perpetrators for saving millions.
Conservatives are better than this. We shouldn't have to stoop to these levels to make a point, because our ideas sell themselves.. This kind of hateful, pejorative language is a tactic of the left. They have to use foul language, lies, fear, and guilt to sell their ideas. Let's take the high road.
On a side note, how do you Coulter-defenders think that statement might've affected gay Republicans? Think about that for a minute.
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"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." - Ronald Reagan
I defend Coulter not the statement. I would hope that any subgroup of republicans would do the same. By defending Ann's right to speak we defend all our rights to speak. Whats more we stop ourselves from being split by silliness.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
She should have the right to say it. She should just be smart enough not to. This is not a free speech issue. It's a decency and intelligent discourse issue.
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"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." - Ronald Reagan
Is that a lot of people think she should never have said it at all, regardless of her rght to do so.
But that is wrong.
It's a matter of WHERE she says it. She can say whatever she wants in her books or on SouthPark. It's an entirely different matter when in polite company and whoever invited her, Knowing she would do or say something like this should be ashamed.
There are those who look on Dresden and Tokyo and Hiroshima as some of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by man. I look on them and thank the perpetrators for saving millions.
Ann Coulter doesn't speak for Conservatives, and she doesn't speak for Republicans. She speaks for herself, and she speaks to make money and win attention. If some Conservatives enjoy what she has to say they can buy her books and listen to her when she speaks, but that doesn't mean that she represents them any more than Cartman on South Park does
Margaret Cho was wisely disinvited to an even connected with the 2004 Democratic Convention for similar reasons. It is not that most Democrats probably find her offensive or disagree with her, it is that she does not have the discretion to monitor what she says and she is not a good public face for liberalism. I think that Ann Coulter has become our Margaret Cho
I respect all who choose the high road. I would hope to be among them.
But I also understand this encounter with the Gramscians is no tea party, but a fight to the finish. To win this war, our army needs all kinds of soldiers with all kinds of weapons.
Ann is shrewd and Ann can be rough. But as long as I have to make this fight, I want Ann in my army.
What about the gay and lesbian soldiers who cast votes, contribute money, and volunteer their time with campaigns?
Ann Coulter's comments didn't do anything to help the conservative movement. Her comments only caused us harm.
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
I'm curious about the immediate response and the chatter in the hall following her performance. Was there indignation or did that come after the blogging got started and a 'PC' response was needed?
Ann has always seemed to be a performance artist with a gift for espousing an audience's unquestioned beliefs, using language that makes them squirm, but always gets a truth from the gut response.
Ann Coulter is a walking vebal jihadist for the other side in the media battleground. She lays these little eggs of hers with the full knowledge that they're going to be picked up and contribute to her weird and twisted cult of personality, and it's about time the Republicans and Conservatives showed her the door and locked it behind her.
"Violently anti-communist, and much more militaristic than the norm."
The problem with Coulter's bombs is that the MSM will pick up on anything offensive by the conservative pundits and run, run, run with it. They will use it as a bludgeon to beat all conservatives, not just the Coulter's.
COnservatives need to be careful to stay out of this kind of mud pit, because MSM will happily help the liberal leaning bomb throwers find "excuses" for their comments, the MSM gives now such quarter to conservatives.
She basically leaves little piles of doo doo all over the room for the conservatives to clean up.
while I think what Coulter said was a far, far cry from what Marcotte and so many on the left say on a daily basis, she's an idiot sometimes. oh she's very smart, and often a wicked polemicist in an age which is sorely lacking for good ones (and thus unrecognizing of one when it sees it, which is part of the problem), but sometimes an idiot.
And, I have no problem with GOP and conservative leaders shunning her. Leaders are expected to behave, to moderate their language and comprehend the impacts of their actions on the movements they lead. Ann Coulter impresses me as a double-barrelled sawed-off mouth. She has every right to speak her mind. But, those who might be damaged by what she says also have the right to keep her at arms' length, in self-defense if nothing else.
"Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?" (Macaulay)
If you think Ann throws bombs for the fun of it, or out of emotionalism of any kind, you’d best leave fighting the Gramscians to serious people. Ann operates on the basis of (cold, shrewd) calculation, not emotional outburst.
Ann understands the left uses words more for effect than message, and she turns the tactic back on them as needed to make her point. Like the radical left, she understands the function of the dialectic in the national debate, and more than anyone I know, she’s willing to take on enemy fire to advance our front line artillery.
As I recall, Ann’s last flap was over some outrageous comment about the Jersey Girls. Did anyone notice that, using the resulting debate, she almost single-handedly interrupted the relentless parade of “human shields” the left was conducting at the time? By making a spectacle of the matter, she dragged the "human shield" issue under the spotlight, made it the object of public scrutiny, and exposed the tactic for the shallow rhetorical gimmick it truly is.
It looks like their current choice is retired generals.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Still pulling the human shield trick? Yes, because we're still falling for it. They'll always intimidate us when they can.
But it's almost as much our fault as theirs, because we allow the trick to succeed. We're too easily inimidated, as if we aren't sure of who we are, as if we need their approval to be ourselves.
She has no fear about charging in with an axe and chopping away.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
And the WAY she did the Jersey Girls bit was just brilliant. I don't agree with her choice of words, but whatever.
The problem is her choice of venue this time around. She was wrong and whoever invited her was wrong. And That is a distinction we need to make more often. Politeness has Less to do with What you say than it does Where you say it.
There are those who look on Dresden and Tokyo and Hiroshima as some of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by man. I look on them and thank the perpetrators for saving millions.
Raven said: The problem is her choice of venue this time around. She was wrong and whoever invited her was wrong.
Good point, I think. While I'll always want Ann in my army, I question the judgment (Ann and whoever invited her) on this point. Another time, another place may have been better.
...long long ago...the only passengers that seemed to have a fondness for that particular f-word were the gay male couples that called for a taxi from gay bars and clubs. They seemed exceptionally free with the word, and sharing other gossip. But as a rule, they were great tippers, so I didn't care much what they said.
...double-standard with regard to language. Take for another example the n-word, which you can't hear hip-hop music without being inundated with, and which I hear every third word when in the locker room at the gym. However, it's career-ending and reputation-killing for a non-AA to use.
Thaaaaat's Liberalism!
This is something where the harm is at the option of the listener.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
...a list of acceptable words, books, thoughts, jobs, and religions which you are to abide by while continuing to use said lists ourselves because after all we're smarter than you and know how best to use such items.
Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Senior writer for The Hinzsight Report
I don't think that its a double standard in which elitist liberals can say what they want and conservative rednecks have to censor themselves. A liberal white guy can't use the n-word without being chastised either.
The double standard is that what is offensive from people who are not part of a minority is ok from members of the minority. That only keeps society balkanized into seperate minority cultures that are more easily manipulated by liberal leaders. In fact, it can all become so confusing, even for members of one minority trying to interact with members of another, that the only way to keep it straight is to take orders from the (mostly white male) liberal elites. They are enlightened and sympathetic enough to listen to everyone and follow all of the rules, and they have the connections and the money to alert mainstream society about all of the things that different groups find offensive. But, as a price, they claim the privelege of writing the rules and governing inter-minority relations.
An easy response is to disregard PC rules and risk being offensive. But there are reasons why certain words and stereotypes are offensive and there is no reason that Conservatives can't learn them too. Ignorance is not a virtue. The more an individual learns about other cultures, the more bridges we form and the less we need to be told what to say. Then members of traditionally liberal minorities feel safer venturing out as well. We need to break the liberal stranglehold on intercultural exchange and recognize that
1) America is becoming more diverse as the world gets smaller
2) Intercultural exchange enriches everyone
3) The balkanization of racial, ethnic, sexual, and religious minorities is not good for democracy
4) Conservative principles are not specific to one culture. That is, other cultures don't have to become just like yours to be authentically conservative.
I don't think we can win the PC wars by ignoring the underlying social realities, but we can change the rules in our favor and outplay our ideological opponents.
The word "f****t" is a despicable word no matter who uses it. I can't do anything about the fact that some gays and lesbians have decided to use such a word, anymore than Bill Cosby can do anything about the fact that some misguided black people have decided to us the "n word." Just because some gays and lesbians use the word doesn't mean that Ann Coulter should at an event with all but one of the Republican presidential candidates in attendance.
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
She's a controversy slut, and a blight on the conservative movement.
I have to say, this is impressive.
You accept the notion that perception is reality, that the use of certain words is unacceptable, and that Coulter's ad hominem on Edwards is morally equivalent of Marcotte's spewed filth.
Your descent into Dhimmitude is complete.
Me, I'm not fond of Coulter. But she fights political correctness in a fierce, uncompromising way that I am not able to pull off.
I do not denounce her.
I must know which RS editor you though wrote this. Who among us was so close to "descending into dhimmitude" that we were able to "complete that descent" last night, on this issue? :-)
I didn't have a specific RS editor in mind.
(I misread "I must know ..." to mean that you suspected I was talking about you, I guessed because you promoted it.)
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See the Academy
...I think. ;)
Seriously though, this has nothing to do with my youth. Perception does matter. If you think the Democrats and their media puppets won't use the perception associated with this to make every single Republican in America look bad... well, you're wrong. They will. They're already doing it. And they're doing it successfully.
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
I'm allergic to these deals where someone is supposed to run around in sackcloth and ashes for using an unpleasant word, BUT Ann's judgment is terrible given that she was at an event representing a political movement. The etiquette is bad, too. She should know that she would hijack CPAC and make sure the only news was about her.
I DO denounce that.
CPAC also knew what they were getting with Ann the fault is there own.
Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Senior writer for The Hinzsight Report
I can say that if conservatives think they can get away with associating with Ann Coulter after this, they're just ASKING to be beaten. I personally don't care that she said that word. Her entire speech was tasteless. It was like Jonathan Swift, only without the humor, intelligence, and wit. She was just talking about Irish people eating babies.
Of course, the stupid liberal press will get their panties tied in a bunch, which will give her more attention that she deserves. Don't think for a second that her success will be your albatross.
The world only goes round by misunderstanding - Charles Baudelaire
But Edwards will probably escape from his association with Marcotte relatively unscathed, and other liberal icons have other links to purveyors of hate... I call obvious double-standard on this one.
Needless to say, I'd rather have Miss Coulter be on my side rather than against me, that's for sure.
"I could explain, but that would be very long, very convoluted, and make you look very stupid. Nobody wants that... except maybe me."
I enjoy listening to Coulter, don't get me wrong. But Erick nailed it with his "congratulations on helping the Dems". This was done for personal gain at the exense of CPAC, and hence the conservative movement, and hence the GOP. Poorly done, Ann!
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"Our job is to bash the president"
Newsweek's Evan Thomas, on the role of the MSM
Ann Coulter should apologize for calling Sen. Edwards "f****t." Even if Sen. Edwards were gay, it wouldn't be right to call him a name like that.
It hurts our cause to use low derogatory terms and to make personal attacks (unless accusing someone of explicitly lying or committing a crime). Let our opponents embarrass themselves; this only helps the other side.
Republican candidates and party officials should distance themselves from her, at least for this set of remarks. This isn't funny, it's not true, and it's not dignified. We don't win by being as bad as the Nutroots types. This is the kind of behavior that only makes the person doing it look bad.
She said using that word was not allowed, so the things she would say about him would certainly not be allowed.
She has no reason to apologize.
On the other hand, if she were trying to show that she should not be taken seriously, she could not have picked a better way.
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See the Academy.
She should apologize to conservatives and Republicans for her usual me, me, me game which comes now at the expense of our Presidential candidates.
How are guys like Hunter and Brownback supposed to compete with her?
Well, who cares if we're stuck with an anti-conservative (McCain), a liberal (Giuliani), or a Coulter-labelled RiNO (Romney). It's all about Coulter's continuing to sell books and get paid for speaking engagements, right?
Run like Reagan!
although I don't think CPAC should be all about the 08 candidates and should be about the movement, it is true that Ann has shall we say mixed motives
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
is, expressed somewhat earthily: "is the screwing you're getting worth the screwing you're getting?"
On balance, don't think so.
There is a place for political theater and shock jocks. A presidential campaign is not one of those places. Unless it wants to be a farce.
"is the screwing you're getting worth the screwing you're getting?" I WILL steal that line sometime!
who used to be CEO of RJR Nabisco, which was the subject of the "Barbarians at the Gate" book, made into a movie. That line did not make it into the movie, but the movie had some classic lines, too.
"make sure the screwing you're getting is worth the screwing you're gonna get," which I think is totally appropo in politics. Another favorite of a long-time legislator friend of mine was, "every a** you kick on the way up is one you'll have to kiss on the way down," also very appropo.
In Vino Veritas
2000 that we haven't been in a presidential campaign. I have laughed during even numbered years when media writes off what the dems do as being due to "election year" politics
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Ann Coulter would rather sell a book than promote the cause of the Republican Party. In this regard she is no different than the run of the mill leftist scum. It is very comforting to see the real Republicans acknowledging her for the joke that she is. Our party has seen the contributions of some very classy women recently - Ann Coulter is certainly not one of them.
The solution is to stop treating Ann Coulter like a political analyst. To stop treating her speeches as important. To basically stop lumping her in with the conservative movement.
Ann Coulter is an entertainer. `She says these things because it sells books, because it gets her speaking gigs, because it gets her on TV. If she was classy, polite, and politically correct, she'd be a nobody.
So the question is whether you want the average Joe to equate the Republican party to the well-spoken person who makes great points and sounds like someone you'd want in control of your government, or someone like Ann Coulter.
I've said this for awhile and I truly believe it. People like Rush, Savage, and Coulter will ultimately hurt the party and turn it into what the left has become with Alec Baldwins, Sean Penns, and Al Frankens. Whether you agree with 99% of what they say is moot, they are simply not good in the public's eye. So listen to them, enjoy them, let them make millions. But lets not equate everything they say as a statement on the party.
probably be treated as such by the conservative and GOP politicians and groups.
I don't think she is any worse than many of the liberals you list, but she seems to be treated more like a conservative opinion/analyst rather than as the entertainer she is.
But I don't think she helps the conservative cause much-basically she is a lightening rod that attracts the MSM and DNC and she essentially puts a bludgeon in their hands to beat conservatives over the head with. It is sad that the MSM doesn't give the same level of outrage to liberal commenters, but this is the world we live in, and it is wiser to keep control of the tongue than to harm the cause.
"I've said this for awhile and I truly believe it. People like Rush, Savage, and Coulter will ultimately hurt the party and turn it into what the left has become with Alec Baldwins, Sean Penns, and Al Frankens."
I understand what you are saying overall, but I can't agree with this. Savage, although good on many issues, is just kind of crazy, but Rush is different. Do the liberals hate him? Of course, they do, but its because he hurts them, because there really is truth in most of what he says. He has helped conservatism greatly just by getting it out in public. I don't agree with him sometimes, and maybe he shouldn't be invited to speak at CPAC, but we shouldn't try to relate him to nothingness because our enemies don't like him.
I'm not saying relegate them to nothingness, I'm saying to treat them as entertainers. Listen to them, support them, but they probably shouldn't be speaking at political events that are seen by the mainstream as the face of the party. All people are going to hear about is how Ann Coulter and a bunch of Republicans made anti-gay remarks. Nothing about policy, nothing about the issues, nothing at all that puts a good face on the event.
They are good for what they do, stir the pot and keep the politicians honest. If it wasn't for some of those guys, Harriet Miers may be on the Supreme Court. But for the good they do in some areas, they can also hurt the party (as Ann Coulter did) in their attempt to garner ratings/media attention. I still feel Rush Limbaugh may have cost Talent Missouri and the Republicans the Senate. Sure people will say it wasn't a big deal, but he had an approval rating of 25% while MJF was at 75%. People didn't discuss the issue, they discusses someone who was deemed a figure of the Republican party mocking Parkinsons.
I guess I'm just saying that they take attention away from the issues and being able to get the message across to the public.
I must remind myself that there is a reserve of outrage easily tapped and of unbounded abundance in that quarter of the world, the part where the Sun never shines, LiberalLand. Try saying Nancy Pelosi wears high heels and you may generate outrage.
Howard is an example of what happens when the hospital lets the patients roam the corridors.
"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville
Ann Coulter did us all a disservice. Conservatives and Republicans should put a lot of distance between us and her -- just as John Kerry should have put distance between himself and Whoopi Goldberg at the fundraiser at Radio City in 2004. When Kerry didn't quickly disavow Whoopi's vulgar remarks about President Bush, it hurt Kerry for a long time.
We should learn. This isn't hard. It doesn't matter if Dean is calling for it. A stopped clock after all is right twice a day.
I just hope its not pay per view
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
There is a time for everything under heaven
A time to be born and a time to die
A time to plant and a time to uproot
A time to heal and a time to kill
A time to laugh and a time to weep
A time to seek and a time to lose
A time to keep and a time to cast away
A time to sew and a time to rend
A time for peace and a time for war
A time to love and a time to hate
A time to be silent and a time to speak
We at war on two fronts; abroad there are those who hate this nation and the people that comprise it and who dearly wish to see it destroyed.
At home, there are those among us who hate this nation, its values, and everything it stands for, who also wish to see it destroyed.
Annie is neither one of those two groups. God bless her. May her life be long and fruitful and her enemies many because they have certainly labored long and hard to earn her barbs.
once again.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
We've gone from George Washington to George Bush. From the thoughtful debate of our Founding Fathers to calling people f****s at political conventions. You can narrow in on Ann's comments and try to salvage some sort of free speech thing out of them, or sit around claiming 'liberals call us names, we're only fighting fire with fire', but step back and look at the big picture. All these little things add up to a sliding slope into decline, for America as well as the West in general.
nor even the day you were born! Pliticians and, yes, even citizens have been calling other politicians terrible names long before this nation was even born.
Hate speech? Take a look at some of the things said about Lincoln! For that matter, look at some of the things Lincoln said about his opponents.
The big picture? The only decline today is in education!
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
I don't really care what Ann Coulter or anyone else calls John Edwards. After PandaGate, which was what you might call the icing on the "Why I Left the Democratic Party" cake, I've probably called John Edwards worse names than this. Call John Edwards anything you want.
My problem with Ann Coulter's statement is the following: 1) the context in which she spoke it hurts rather than helps the conservative movement; 2) the word "faggot" is a word that should not be used, just like other bigoted slurs. Really, though, this has more to do with point #1 than point #2. I have said repeatedly that I wouldn't have even taken notice if she had said this at one of her own events or even on TV. But did she have to drag the presidential candidates and the Vice President into this with her?
Regards,
Nate Nelson
Reality Mugged Me
So we have made some progress. Hamilton and Burr ring a bell ?
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
that Edwards is much more likely to shoot Ann someday. Maybe on the set of a primetime talk show or at the Republican inauguration party in 2009.
I'm not saying that I think Edwards could actually kill someone, mind you.
There's just something about those eyes.
And that perfect, perfect hair.
I believe Ann once famously said, "If the death penalty isn't a deterrant, then why is Michael Moore still alive and why am I not on death row?"
Same for Edwards?
LOL
After examining your posting history, can't tell if you're a moby or just a loser, and really: don't much care. Either way, find somewhere else to throw around the sexual slurs.
Blam.
Moe
PS: Yeah, I was planning to be in bed by now. Nope, I wasn't pleased to be instead checking this twerp's posting history for trolling.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.
I just saw the YouTube feed, and I have got to say that people offended by Ann's remarks have absolutely no sense of humor, whatsoever!
GET A LIFE PEOPLE!
And that includes YOU, Moe!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx9Bi3C4rs8&mode=related&search=
Good grief. The PC Police State has come to RedState.
She was absolutely correct about what she said about John Edwards. I guess repeating it getts you banned here in the People's Republic Police State of RedState.com
Your goal here should not be to get banned a second time. I'm sure you can see there's been a surplus of idiocy and in particular violations of the language policy on this thread. It's probably a good idea to step away from the monitor until the Augean stables have been good and cleaned.
"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill
Get a brain transplant, Dan. You and everyone else who is so outraged by this needs a new brain with an humor upgrade.
Ann was as sharp and stingingly brilliant as she always is, and if you expect me to just sit around and allow the idiots here revile Ann in order to make themselves feel better about what enlightened Republicans they are without having someone - in my case who I guess I'm being told I should be personally offended by her comments since I am gay - then, well...I'll tell you where you can shove it.
I've heard of white guilt before, but what's going on here is the most outrageous case of Hetero Guilt I've ever seen.
"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill
Heading out the door...to a GAY CLUB. :-P
One of my HRC-loving friends was texting me about Ann's comments while I was at the Rockets game, so I thought I'd check in here to see what the reaction was.
After watching the clip, I have to say that the response has been absolutely and sickeningly disappointing.
Hopefully you people will have your heads screwed on straight on Monday. No pun or slur intended there, so no need to write a separate diary, "The Shunning of EzOnTheEyez."
:-P
Regarding Erick's RedHot comment, he seems to have such an infinitesimal intellect that he can't comprehend that Ann Coulter did this on purpose to help Edwards raise money and beat Obama and Hillary because of all the candidates he is the easiest to beat because he has the least amount of substance.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
terms and often won while we play nice and present econ graphs.
We have the moral highground and the the left is morally bankrupt. Ann speaks the blunt truth. She is not afraif of the MSM.
Neither was Reagan. He got called worse names than Ann
and won landslides.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
That would be the perfect place for them.
Or in print or on the radio.
At a rally for a political campaign or any other place that suggests attendees behave is Not the place for Ann Coulters.
...That's where we want Reagans and Hannitys (more the Reagans, though)
There are those who look on Dresden and Tokyo and Hiroshima as some of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by man. I look on them and thank the perpetrators for saving millions.
For those of you who were wondering, EzOnTheEyez has joined a rarefied bunch; somebody who's had his or her banning revoked by the instant-replay referees. (Shrug) Not the first time that I've been overruled, probably won't be the last.
However. Let's be clear. Profanity is not allowed, here. You are not in a public place; you are on private property, and one of the rules here is that bad words are verboten. There are many sites where they are not.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.
But then I really *looked* at the threads, and extrapolated.
So, no, not insomnia.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.
Ann effectively mocked the brand of political correctness that the Left depends upon to build its order and expand its power. Contrary to what some of the alarmists who have contributed to this thread have written, I'll contend that Ann's words cut across party lines and caused a lot of people, fed up with the straight-jacket that PC has placed upon public discourse, to shout at least a muted hurrah. I don't think that disgust for the thought police is solely within the domain of the GOP, and I believe wholeheartedly that Americans who would just like PC to go away vastly outnumber those who seek to expand its influence.
Frankly, I'm not surprised at the level of compliance with the agenda of the social Marxist even by those who call themselves conservatives. But when we prostrate ourselves before those whose goal it is to control our mutually-shared agreements about the meanings of words we have become their subjects. It has taken many years for us to become so compliant with the dictates of PC. The only way out is through. The only way through is to start taking back our our language and the freedom to use it, one word at a time if necessary.
Ann knew exactly what she was doing, and had our best interests in mind. It would indeed be a shame if we Borked her, as is suggested here, for doing something that can help the cause if it lets more people get over their fear of using the right words to combat the sick ideologies of the left.
Even the slightest harm visited upon Ann over this would be a truly sad event. Her contention that the left would demand she enter therapy if she dared call Edwards a pantywaist(the exact same meaning as what she said in context) was not only legitimate, but spot on in skewering of its intended targets.
The only way this hurts us is if we become preoccupied with it and end up paying reparations instead of storming through the breach Ann cut through the wall. After reading what has gone on here, I'm concerned theres a lack of will to fight.
Shouldn't we be spending more time mocking the hypocrisy of George Soros for his buying 20 million shares of Halliburton than rehabilitating Edwards all by ourselves by blowing Ann's commentary so disgustingly out of proportion...and out of context for that matter?
Better be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security. --Edmund Burke
I want to be AlGore's worst nightmare : Global Tepiding?
That's what I tried to say. You just did it a lot better.
--
See the Academy.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
The only way through is to start taking back our our language and the freedom to use it, one word at a time if necessary.
This just does not make sense on a site the censors cuss words. Cuss words are after all relative to their day and time and they fall under the umbrella of PC.
contributes greatly to the quality of discourse on this site. You don't need a vocabulary if you can just resort to the F-word as a noun, verb, and adjective. If you took s*k, f**k, and f*g away from them, a huge percentage of the under thirty population of the Country would only be able to grunt and point. Child of the Sixties that I am, I have a thoroughly foul mouth in casual conversation - when I can get away with it. That said, I spent most of my working life in formal adversarial proceedings where the King's English was absolutely required. So, I guess I'm bilingual.
As to Coulter, one is judged by the quality of one's enemies, and all the right people hate her. She uses the Left's semantic tools against them. Since they are "good people" they can say and do any vile thing they want, and they really don't like having that turned against them. Since she uses public fora, she has to be somewhat restrained with her insults. I found that if one is to insult a Lefty, it is best to do it relatively privately and make it so vile that they won't even dare admit that someone would talk to them like that. In my working days, I was always happy to give the always hostile media a pithy quote that they wouldn't dare use.
In Vino Veritas
I want to say whatever I want! And go to bed as late as I want, and have dessert before dinner, etc., etc., etc!
This site is private property, and is a place for adults to come discuss things reasonably. We have rules, as does every other adult establishment. If you don't like it, go away.
Simple as that. Sorry we're not anarchists here, and that we have a sense of common decency.
Except I'm not sorry in the least.
"lets more people get over their fear of using the right words to combat the sick ideologies of the left."
"F****T" wasn't the "right" word. And NOT because it was offensive to some, i.e. POLITICALLY INCORRECT, but because it had no relevance to what is objectionable about Edwards.
"HYPOCRIT" would have been stronger, precise and actually substantive.
I'm not buying your idea that Ann is a champion of our language.
I'll even accuse her of being "Anti-Semantic" which I claim as my anti-PC right.
...and there are so few with the public chops willing to start it, to really fight back to reclaim title to free expression, so I'll take it where I can get it. We live in a world in which the rules of communication are too much defined by the Leftist, and many conservatives either never knew or have conveniently forgotten that things were not always this way; in fact, they were never this way until very recently.
Not so long ago, it was acceptable (even expected) to speak out forcefully enough to shut the yaps of insidious deviants who might have attacked traditional marriage; today, speaking such ancient truths makes one "homophobic" - and the debate is over. Well, I beg to differ; I'm a "heterophillic" who believes this tradition is so vital to our future viability that it can never be set asunder. Never.
For in caving in to PC, we allow our language to be arrogantly policed and our ideals leveraged into meaninglessness.
Not long ago, it was perfectly normal for an American to expect government to enforce our laws, act as a steward to reinforce our culture, and to maintain a framework of civic expectations that fostered commonality and unity. Today, stating an expectation that immigration law be enforced, or an opposition to amnesty, or to even voice concern that the de facto status quo may pose a future threat to unity automatically makes one a bigot, a racist or a xenophobe. Poppycock! If France is no longer populated and led by French people with French ancestry, it isn't France. The same is said for Germany, England, Switzerland...and Israel. We would never speak to deny these nations the right to maintain commonalities of culture language and heritage, but we can't say the same for the US? That's political correctness working its most vile and dangerous spell on us.
For in caving in to PC, we will allow our nation, E Pluribus Unum, to be transmogrified into the untenability that is E Pluribus Pluribus. And surely it will no longer be "America," nor will it be "our" nation.
Not long ago, our government schools were not completely run by the thought gestapo; they were run by the parents. People seem to have forgotten that even after prayer in schools was successfully excised from vital curricula, students did not fear having or reading a bible on campus. But in many goverment schools today, the Bible is treated as inherently evil. There is little doubt that eventually its mere presence will be banned from all government schools, because political correctness works to stigmatize it, and to pillory those who might seek to learn from it.
For in caving in to PC, we will surely allow the faith that undergirds the precepts of our nation to be revised out of our history, completely and forever. And what will we have then that is worth keeping?
At some point, and soon, we must stop arguing with each other using the Left's own PC rules of engagement. In the process, some are going to be shocked. Some are going to be offended. And those who are too weak of spirit, conviction or faith will surely be appalled. I say: It is better them than us. I'm tired of walking on eggshells just to placate the pantywaist sensitivities of those who actually thrive on finding new reasons to be offended.
It is high time we get back to being niggardly with the Providential treasure of our nation, our culture and our heritage. PC must die.
Better be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security. --Edmund Burke
Very Un-PC: Global Tepiding?
...and I didn't know Italian citizens or any foreign-born were allowed to run for president. I must not have gotten the memo.
Thanks for informing me.
As far as religion goes, I'll vote for anyone who has faith, recognizes this nation would not be were it not for a particular adherence to faith and believes rightly that the prohibition on "establishment of religion" pertains only to Congress. A faithful person who understands what was meant by the establishment language gets my vote because that view through the window to the soul gives me confidence to follow such a leader.
Better be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security. --Edmund Burke
My Newest Blog: Global Tepiding?
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Let me start off by saying that I consider Ann Coulter one of the most vile human beings in America. She willfully say vicious things in order to sell books and get face time. Whenever her notoriety starts to fade a little she comes out with yet another offensive comment intended solely to get her air time. I don't despise her because of her political views. I despise her because she is a hack that knowingly uses the most hostile and offensive rhetoric for personal gain. She doesn't care if it causes fissures between people as long as she can make a buck on it.
This is just another example of it. Truth be told this is far less hateful than some of her past gems. But this time she did it while endorsing a Presidential candidate.
If I were Mitt Romney I would want nothing to do with her endorsement. Because if this comment doesn't pull him down her next comment will. Coulter can't help herself. She HAS to say these things in order to keep her name relevant.
As for the whole PC silliness. Yet another example that political correctness is defined as "that which others find offensive but I do not". The fact that some people can actually say "Well I found nothing wrong with Ann Coulter's comments but Amanda Marcotte was a hateful and offensive person" without seeing the irony in their statement is truly amusing.
There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy
Go look up what that means. I assume Michael Moore and James Carville also are amongst you Most Vile? However, they are not entertainers.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
So CPAC is a vaudeville show? How many other "entertainers" were asked to give speeches there?
I have absolutely no use for Michael Moore or James Carville. Moore is an idiot with a camera. James Carville is a political hitman. That's his job.
There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
If I was leading the CPAC entertainment committee, I would have gone for Don Rickles. The best un-PC entertainers are great are because they are unpredictable and because everyone is fair game.
You're beautiful and you're right on the issues and you now have lots of money. In fact, don't you have enought to turn the rhetoric down at least a notch or two... sheesh...
Coming from someone who announces themselves as ethical and Christian, I found Ann's comment very unlady like. Period. Of course she can say anything she wants. But for someone with Ann's credentials (University of Michigan grad, and JD) I found her obnoxious and startlingly unprofessional.
I find 7th graders at school lunch tables more articulate and better able to choose descriptive words.
Ann, we all know that your points are correct. Edwards has been wearing his victim status for some time now, but all you're doing is providing him exposure. Please be a bit more discreet.
I saw this for what it was... she was making a parallel to pop culture (Grey's Anatomy star Isaiah Washington was sent to rehab over allegedly calling a gay co-star by the same pejorative term) and trying to make light of it. Probably not the best way of going about it, sure, but to compare it to Marcotte? That's stretching the limits of credulity, to say the very least. Maybe this didn't register with people or what, but that's what she was saying... it was less to do with Edwards himself than it was about the culture of political correctness espoused by the Hollywood Left today.
As I've said before, we only have so many people who are on our side, and those on the other side attack them every day. The least we can do is to hold off doing the same thing unless they do something truly deserving of condemnation. This is just the blogosphere having a conniption over what amounts to a tempest in a teapot (and a pop culture teapot, no less).
"I could explain, but that would be very long, very convoluted, and make you look very stupid. Nobody wants that... except maybe me."