Congressman Obey RE surge: violence down because ‘We’ve run out of people to kill’

By paulseale Posted in Comments (43) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »


What the heck is this guy thinking? Just when you dont think things couldnt get loonier in our Congress from members seeking to defeat our men and women in battle, it does.

Today's outbreak comes from Congressman Obey (D-Wisc) who is chairman of the appropriations committee and holds the purse strings to any funding bill which comes through the House of Representatives. He is also the individual who sought to hide ear marks from the public eye. But I digress.

Read on . . .

Someone asked him today what he thought of Republican claims that the surge was the reason behind the dropping casualties in Iraq. He responded “They’ve killed so many in so many areas, that there are fewer opportunity targets, if you want to put it that way, for each side,” Obey said. “I welcome any reduction in the level in violence for whatever reasons it occurs, but I don’t think that tells us much for what the future is going to be.”

Now I give Congressman Obey props for observing the reality of what goes on in war. One does not know what the future will be. No plan survives contact with the enemy.

To say, though, that the reason behind the drop in casualties is because "we've run out of people to kill" is just mind blowingly tragic.

Not only does it take away from the hard fought success of our men and women, but it devalues the political gains which are occurring on the ground in Iraq. Trust me here, there are political gains being made, its just not the type Congressman Obey and Democrats want to acknowlege.

Instead of working from top down, Petreaus and our armed forces are working from bottom up - gaining the trust of tribal elders and shieks. The difference is dramatic and is the reason why Al Qeada and insurgents are being routed.

Will the plan work long term? Who knows for sure, but I hear that by spring time we will know one way or the other. Of course that is provided that Congress buck up and provide our men and women what they need to win.

It is not because "We've run out of people to kill."

One of the keys to counterinsurgency is making sure that they stop getting new recruits.

If we're running out of guys to kill, that's tremendously great news.

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Let's nominate the Nash Equilibrium for President.

But I agree with your comment.

Apparently not.

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. - Frank Zappa

Or has something changed ?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

Kill enough of the bad guys (defined as "the guys on the other team", for our visitors to RedState) and, eventually, the bad guys start to lack the capacity - or will - to continue to fight.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

If we're succeeding because there are fewer of the enemy combatants to kill, and our military is not responsible for that, then just WHAT IS? Are they getting too sick to fight? Should we send in the Red Cross?

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it devalues the political gains which are occurring on the ground in Iraq. Trust me here, there are political gains being made,

The political gains are meager at best. From the Oct. 30 GAO report:

Iraq has not yet advanced key legislation on equitably sharing oil revenues and holding provincial elections. In addition, sectarian influences within the Iraqi ministries continue while militia influences divide the loyalties of Iraqi security forces.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08231t.pdf

I was not referring to national issues or items which still need work - and will be there long after we are gone in victory.

When we tried to solve the political equation from top down that is part of the reason things fell apart, especially since apparently iraqis trust their tribal elders and shieks more.

This bottom up strategy has proven effective and can work toward stabilizing Iraq.

Remember, all politics is local. Especially in Iraq.

is stuffed full of lefties that, like all lefties, want and live for defeat in Iraq.

the Iraqi politicians are making more headway than the Democrats in DC.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

Here here! Your comments will be largely ignored here though.

It begins with Vietnam, where America left its ally high and dry -- with congress cutting off funding to a nation from which we had already withdrawn troops. The US military NEVER LOST a battle in Vietnam, and even after we withdrew, the South Vietnamese never lost a battle, but still needed our military aid to win. The North Vietnamese would have given up completely after the complete US victory during the Tet Offenseive, but because the US Anti-War Movement gave them hope, they hung on until the US congress declared defeat.

THEN, when American marines, stationed in Lebanon in a peace-keeping role were attacked, our government decided it would be more prudent to withdraw them. People in Lebanon, who had counted on those US troops to prevent them from being murdered, watched as we withdrew, and they (the people) were murdered.

Then there was Somalia, in which the US again chose to withdraw after the "Blackhawk Down" incident, prompting Osama bin Laden to note that the US was a "paper tiger" that would run away at the first sign of bloody resistance.

Then there was Iraq after Gulf War I, in which we withdrew, before the job was done, leaving Saddam Hussein in power, but weakened, and the US encouraged dissidents to overthrow him. Our support was seen as just that -- support -- then, we stood by on the sidelines as they were murdered by Saddam Hussein. The people of Iraq, rightfully saw this as a betrayal, and were understandably wary of embracing the US the second time -- especially since they can also hear the news from THIS country, and could hear Democrats calling for withdrawal again. It is certainly understandable how people betrayed once, would be concerned about being betrayed again!

What liberal Democrats apparently fail to understand, or simply don't care, is that what they say HERE is heard all around the world, and so when they cry BushLied™ and demand to withdraw immediately, our allies also hear them -- as do our enemies.

Our enemies realize that by attacking civilians (they have learned the deadly dangers of directly attacking our military) they can make headline news in this country -- and around the world -- and thereby fund the anti-war agenda -- which is, of course, to their advantage.

Our allies realize that the left in this country might win, and an American withdrawal might happen, in which case, they can only assume that anyone who worked with the Americans will be punished. This makes them a little leery when they read what American liberals are saying, and when there is doubt that the US will honor its obligations.

Does this make liberal Democrats anti-American? No, but it makes them tools of those who are.

n/t
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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.

......it's the appropriate time to set Al Qaeda up as the victim. Just imagine the looney toons parading down Fifth Avenue or in Haight Asbury holding signs aloft reading "Save Al Qaeda before it's too late." What has this country come to? The Third, Fourth, and Fifth Marine Divisions left Iwo Jima, leaving just 200 of the 21,000 original defenders still alive.
That generation knew what it took to win a war.

Just think, lefty pukes like Reid and his ilk will be so happy when America finally pulls out ignominiously like in Saigon, 1975. There will be celebrations in the streets like the end of WWII, except of course the lefties will be celebrating the loss of 10's of thousands of our countrymen, hooray!

I know if anyone even bothers with this post, it will be pure venom. But can I just ask do you really think that being a democrat, is the same as being an enemy of the United States? Take it from this lefty, I don't wish to see our country defeated. But if there's ethnic cleansing going on, should we just ignore that? Is every right-leaning person a fundie who wants to see more and more death, or are there righties with consciences?

You may not, but you vote for politicians who are doing whatever they can to make sure there isn't success ANYWHERE if it means George Bush may look at all good.

You also vote for politicians who are actively disenfranchising the military while trying to enfranchise felons and illegal immigrants. Don't you wonder why they're willing to throw out the significance of your vote for those who shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Don't you wonder why, with evidence to the contrary, they'll plug along with their narrative even if it means horrible defeat for America and her friends?

Don't you ever wonder why you support a party, that in the name of ending discrimination, actually encourages even more discrimination?

Don't you ever wonder why you support a party that believes the best way to create prosperity is by government redistribution of wealth and in the process, destroying growth?

What am I thinking, of course not, because you've been told by the New York Times what an enlightened person should think, and like a sucker and someone who wants to fit in, goes along.

Someday you'll realize Nancy and Ted and Harry and Chuck aren't there for you, they're there for special interests that hate what America was, is and will continue to be.

than I do. And answered much better!

No, I'm a thinking person who looks at the evidence, whether it's from the NY Times (horror of horrors I know), or the Wall Street Journal. Though you'd like to think all the liberals are stupid, many have brains.

We shouldn't support military actions just because our retarded president and his self-enriching buddies think it's a great idea to bomb countries who never threatened us. Still connecting Iraq with 9-11? Who's the idiot?

Yes, I vote for politicians who think along the same lines as I do, would you have a country where everyone thinks alike? Maybe you would.

Are Dick Cheney and W going to be there for me if I'm not one of their rich croies? Nope

just as I suspected, a complete idiot.

" Got to love the Lord for making things like that."
Morally Compromised

Maybe so

Don't count yourself amongst them.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

over at dKos. It must be frustrating to keep saying such stupid things, and not get banned. I suspect your next one will get even more demented as you start to get desperate!

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Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?

why don't you try Chickenhawking? That is usually good for banning!

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Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?

The original point was that democrats don't hate America.

Who hates America? It seems your heroes, King George and co. take the cake. In 8 years they have:

Eroded our standing as a moral leader in the world by ignoring human rights

Eroded our technological edge by dumbing down our schools with "intelligent design"

Shown no respect for the rule of international law (respecting int'l treaties is in the constitution)

Strengthened the presidency and weaken the congress (becoming a dictatorship)

Attacked those who have heroically served their country (see Joe Wilson, Valerie Plame, John Kerry) if they dare tell the truth.

They are the most corrupt bunch I've seen in my lifetime and this from someone who voted for Reagan.

The way for America to succeed is not *always* through force of arms. Couldn't we spend some of that $1 Billion a day on education, helping the poor instead of creating more and more enemies, more and more killed and wounded veterans? We are going to be paying for this bogus war for decades. I hope your children are as gung ho as you are about this war as they pay the bill for it.

or spell.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

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Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?

could contain so much hate.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

People like you want us to be humilated again I bet you want to see Al Qaeda marching thru Baghdad just like these communists marched in victory parade after we were defeated by our own people you know who your big buddies the liberal congress in the mid 1970's.

sorry, you can't have it. your post is too juvenile to warrant venom. No, being a Democrat is not the same as being an enemy of the United States. however, being a Dem leader, and putting the acquisition of power ahead of the security and interests of the nation, does!


sadly today they would have been drummed out of the party like Senator Leibarman

That's why I would never accuse Dems of being in league with our enemies.

It's one criteria of victory, even though to some it's the wrong enemy. Maybe Mr Obey favors paint ball wars, noticeably absent in motivation on the other side. But then if the Capitol was or ever is hit he may acquire an untapped aggression.

"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville

which simply cannot abide that they have been unable to replicate our [apparent] defeat in Vietnam. I say "apparent" because if the Watergate Democrat "Class of '74" not cut off funding to our South Vietnamese allies, they may have been able to withstand the final assault.

But the ARVN & our Saigon allies were stabbed in the back by liberal Democrats, something our textbooks and retro-lying by creeps like Neil Sheehan et al. do not mention.

It's far better to be a defeated opponent of the USA than to be an ally, thanks to the left-wing Fifth Column in the US.

Ted Kennedy comes to mind.... for some reason.

that it was a BAD thing?

Good God why? That's kinda the idea in War isn't it?

I seem to remember Clawshwitz saying something about destroying the enemy forces.

Jindal/Palin '16

It should be clear with the use of "they" he is referring to Iraqi's killing each other. And to suppose that all (estimates range up to 70,000 Iraqis killed to date) were our enemies or "bad guys" is maybe part of the problem. The violence rates refer to sectarian killings and bombins as well as us casulaties. There have been several postings/writings documenting the "cleansing" of neighborhoods etc. therefore less need for killings etc. Yes metrics look good for the surge but lets not have kneejerk mis-representations of what they show or why they might be occurring.

jkern

an idiot.

But I repeat myself.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

So you're saying gang violence in L.A. is down because the Bloods killed so many of the Crips that they can't find any more to kill? Wow. Who knew?

Drink Good Coffee. You can sleep when you're dead.

they refer to our military.

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. - Frank Zappa

 
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