Redstate

In order to spite GWB's face.

“The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men."

I might also add that (to my understanding) the resolution focuses on Turkish forces and not the ottoman empire.

I still wonder - why and why now.

The only thing I can think of is to slow bleed our forces in Iraq - something they (Democrats) have been trying to do since they were elected into leadership.

on how this unfolded between the French and the Turks?

Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets

Proprietor Nation

If you have any information, feel welcome to share. Albeit when I get the chance I will try to vet.

Thanks.

now do you have any idea which Reps plan to support this?

Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets

Proprietor Nation

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=hr110-106 (looks like the whole Democrat caucus).. but out side of that, I have no idea who else might be inclined to vote on the bill. We might be able to take a cue that it will be a down the line vote since the committe vote was.

Rep. Neil Abercrombie [D-HI]
Rep. Gary Ackerman [D-NY]
Rep. Thomas Allen [D-ME]
Rep. Robert Andrews [D-NJ]
Rep. Michael Arcuri [D-NY]
Rep. Joe Baca [D-CA]
Rep. Michele Bachmann [R-MN]
Rep. Brian Baird [D-WA]
Rep. Tammy Baldwin [D-WI]
Rep. John Barrow [D-GA]
Rep. Melissa Bean [D-IL]
Rep. Xavier Becerra [D-CA]
Rep. Shelley Berkley [D-NV]
Rep. Howard Berman [D-CA]
Rep. Robert Berry [D-AR]
Rep. Brian Bilbray [R-CA]
Rep. Gus Bilirakis [R-FL]
Rep. Sanford Bishop [D-GA]
Rep. Timothy Bishop [D-NY]
Rep. Earl Blumenauer [D-OR]
Rep. Mary Bono [R-CA]
Del. Madeleine Bordallo [D-GU]
Rep. Allen Boyd [D-FL]
Rep. Robert Brady [D-PA]
Rep. Bruce Braley [D-IA]
Rep. George Butterfield [D-NC]
Rep. Ken Calvert [R-CA]
Rep. David Camp [R-MI]
Rep. John Campbell [R-CA]
Rep. Eric Cantor [R-VA]
Rep. Lois Capps [D-CA]
Rep. Michael Capuano [D-MA]
Rep. Dennis Cardoza [D-CA]
Rep. Julia Carson [D-IN]
Del. Donna Christensen [D-VI]
Rep. Yvette Clarke [D-NY]
Rep. William Clay [D-MO]
Rep. Emanuel Cleaver [D-MO]
Rep. John Conyers [D-MI]
Rep. Jim Costa [D-CA]
Rep. Jerry Costello [D-IL]
Rep. Joe Courtney [D-CT]
Rep. Joseph Crowley [D-NY]
Rep. Elijah Cummings [D-MD]
Rep. Artur Davis [D-AL]
Rep. Danny Davis [D-IL]
Rep. Lincoln Davis [D-TN]
Rep. Susan Davis [D-CA]
Rep. Peter DeFazio [D-OR]
Rep. Diana DeGette [D-CO]
Rep. William Delahunt [D-MA]
Rep. Rosa DeLauro [D-CT]
Rep. Charles Dent [R-PA]
Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart [R-FL]
Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart [R-FL]
Rep. John Dingell [D-MI]
Rep. Lloyd Doggett [D-TX]
Rep. John Doolittle [R-CA]
Rep. Michael Doyle [D-PA]
Rep. David Dreier [R-CA]
Rep. Keith Ellison [D-MN]
Rep. Eliot Engel [D-NY]
Rep. Anna Eshoo [D-CA]
Rep. Sam Farr [D-CA]
Rep. Chaka Fattah [D-PA]
Rep. Michael Ferguson [R-NJ]
Rep. Bob Filner [D-CA]
R.C. Luis Fortuño [?-PR]
Rep. Barney Frank [D-MA]
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen [R-NJ]
Rep. Scott Garrett [R-NJ]
Rep. Jim Gerlach [R-PA]
Rep. Kirsten Gillibrand [D-NY]
Rep. Charles Gonzalez [D-TX]
Rep. Al Green [D-TX]
Rep. Raymond Green [D-TX]
Rep. Raul Grijalva [D-AZ]
Rep. Luis Gutiérrez [D-IL]
Rep. John Hall [D-NY]
Rep. Phil Hare [D-IL]
Rep. Jane Harman [D-CA]
Rep. Walter Herger [R-CA]
Rep. Stephanie Herseth Sandlin [D-SD]
Rep. Maurice Hinchey [D-NY]
Rep. Rubén Hinojosa [D-TX]
Rep. Mazie Hirono [D-HI]
Rep. Paul Hodes [D-NH]
Rep. Tim Holden [D-PA]
Rep. Rush Holt [D-NJ]
Rep. Michael Honda [D-CA]
Rep. Duncan Hunter [R-CA]
Rep. Steve Israel [D-NY]
Rep. Darrell Issa [R-CA]
Rep. Jesse Jackson [D-IL]
Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee [D-TX]
Rep. Henry Johnson [D-GA]
Rep. Stephanie Jones [D-OH]
Rep. Steve Kagen [D-WI]
Rep. Patrick Kennedy [D-RI]
Rep. Dale Kildee [D-MI]
Rep. Carolyn Kilpatrick [D-MI]
Rep. Ronald Kind [D-WI]
Rep. Jack Kingston [R-GA]
Rep. Mark Kirk [R-IL]
Rep. Joseph Knollenberg [R-MI]
Rep. Dennis Kucinich [D-OH]
Rep. John Kuhl [R-NY]
Rep. Ray LaHood [R-IL]
Rep. Doug Lamborn [R-CO]
Rep. James Langevin [D-RI]
Rep. Rick Larsen [D-WA]
Rep. John Larson [D-CT]
Rep. Steven LaTourette [R-OH]
Rep. Barbara Lee [D-CA]
Rep. Sander Levin [D-MI]
Rep. John Lewis [D-GA]
Rep. Daniel Lipinski [D-IL]
Rep. Frank LoBiondo [R-NJ]
Rep. Zoe Lofgren [D-CA]
Rep. Nita Lowey [D-NY]
Rep. Daniel Lungren [R-CA]
Rep. Stephen Lynch [D-MA]
Rep. Carolyn Maloney [D-NY]
Rep. Kenny Marchant [R-TX]
Rep. Edward Markey [D-MA]
Rep. James Marshall [D-GA]
Rep. Jim Matheson [D-UT]
Rep. Doris Matsui [D-CA]
Rep. Carolyn McCarthy [D-NY]
Rep. Kevin McCarthy [R-CA]
Rep. Michael McCaul [R-TX]
Rep. Betty McCollum [D-MN]
Rep. Thaddeus McCotter [R-MI]
Rep. James McDermott [D-WA]
Rep. James McGovern [D-MA]
Rep. John McHugh [R-NY]
Rep. Howard McKeon [R-CA]
Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers [R-WA]
Rep. Jerry McNerney [D-CA]
Rep. Michael McNulty [D-NY]
Rep. Martin Meehan [D-MA]
Rep. Kendrick Meek [D-FL]
Rep. Charles Melancon [D-LA]
Rep. Michael Michaud [D-ME]
Rep. Juanita Millender-McDonald [D-CA]
Rep. Candice Miller [R-MI]
Rep. Gary Miller [R-CA]
Rep. George Miller [D-CA]
Rep. Harry Mitchell [D-AZ]
Rep. James Moran [D-VA]
Rep. Christopher Murphy [D-CT]
Rep. Marilyn Musgrave [R-CO]
Rep. Jerrold Nadler [D-NY]
Rep. Grace Napolitano [D-CA]
Rep. Richard Neal [D-MA]
Del. Eleanor Norton [D-DC]
Rep. Devin Nunes [R-CA]
Rep. John Olver [D-MA]
Rep. Frank Pallone [D-NJ]
Rep. Edward Pastor [D-AZ]
Rep. Donald Payne [D-NJ]
Rep. Ed Perlmutter [D-CO]
Rep. Collin Peterson [D-MN]
Rep. Joseph Pitts [R-PA]
Rep. Jon Porter [R-NV]
Rep. George Radanovich [R-CA]
Rep. Charles Rangel [D-NY]
Rep. Dave Reichert [R-WA]
Rep. Rick Renzi [R-AZ]
Rep. Laura Richardson [D-CA]
Rep. Ciro Rodriguez [D-TX]
Rep. Michael Rogers [R-MI]
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher [R-CA]
Rep. Peter Roskam [R-IL]
Rep. Mike Ross [D-AR]
Rep. Steven Rothman [D-NJ]
Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard [D-CA]
Rep. Edward Royce [R-CA]
Rep. Bobby Rush [D-IL]
Rep. Paul Ryan [R-WI]
Rep. Timothy Ryan [D-OH]
Rep. John Salazar [D-CO]
Rep. Linda Sánchez [D-CA]
Rep. Loretta Sanchez [D-CA]
Rep. John Sarbanes [D-MD]
Rep. Janice Schakowsky [D-IL]
Rep. Allyson Schwartz [D-PA]
Rep. Robert Scott [D-VA]
Rep. James Sensenbrenner [R-WI]
Rep. José Serrano [D-NY]
Rep. Christopher Shays [R-CT]
Rep. Brad Sherman [D-CA]
Rep. Albio Sires [D-NJ]
Rep. Christopher Smith [R-NJ]
Rep. Hilda Solis [D-CA]
Rep. Mark Souder [R-IN]
Rep. Zackary Space [D-OH]
Rep. Fortney Stark [D-CA]
Rep. Betty Sutton [D-OH]
Rep. Ellen Tauscher [D-CA]
Rep. Bennie Thompson [D-MS]
Rep. Michael Thompson [D-CA]
Rep. John Tierney [D-MA]
Rep. Edolphus Towns [D-NY]
Rep. Mark Udall [D-CO]
Rep. Tom Udall [D-NM]
Rep. Christopher Van Hollen [D-MD]
Rep. Nydia Velázquez [D-NY]
Rep. Peter Visclosky [D-IN]
Rep. Timothy Walberg [R-MI]
Rep. James Walsh [R-NY]
Rep. Timothy Walz [D-MN]
Rep. Zach Wamp [R-TN]
Rep. Maxine Waters [D-CA]
Rep. Diane Watson [D-CA]
Rep. Melvin Watt [D-NC]
Rep. Henry Waxman [D-CA]
Rep. Anthony Weiner [D-NY]
Rep. Gerald Weller [R-IL]
Rep. Addison Wilson [R-SC]
Rep. Frank Wolf [R-VA]
Rep. Lynn Woolsey [D-CA]
Rep. David Wu [D-OR]
Rep. Albert Wynn [D-MD]
Rep. John Yarmuth [D-KY]
Rep. Philip English [R-PA]
Rep. Bobby Jindal [R-LA]
Rep. Russ Carnahan [D-MO]
Rep. John Shimkus [R-IL]
Rep. Dan Boren [D-OK]
Rep. Dennis Moore [D-KS]
Rep. David Scott [D-GA]
Rep. Thomas Tancredo [R-CO]
Rep. Henry Cuellar [D-TX]
Rep. Roger Wicker [R-MS]

There is a significant Republican contengency here, which in all honesty is quite shocking given the read.

It still doesnt answer the why my question about whether this is a back door effort to slow bleed the war effort.

Rep. Brian Bilbray [R-CA]
Rep. Gus Bilirakis [R-FL]
Rep. Charles Dent [R-PA]
Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart [R-FL]
Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart [R-FL]
Rep. Mary Bono [R-CA]
Rep. Ken Calvert [R-CA]
Rep. David Camp [R-MI]
Rep. John Campbell [R-CA]
Rep. Eric Cantor [R-VA]
Rep. John Doolittle [R-CA]
Rep. David Dreier [R-CA]
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen [R-NJ]
Rep. Scott Garrett [R-NJ]
Rep. Jim Gerlach [R-PA]
Rep. Walter Herger [R-CA]
Rep. Darrell Issa [R-CA]
Rep. Jack Kingston [R-GA]
Rep. Mark Kirk [R-IL]
Rep. Joseph Knollenberg [R-MI]
Rep. John Kuhl [R-NY]
Rep. Ray LaHood [R-IL]
Rep. Doug Lamborn [R-CO]
Rep. Daniel Lungren [R-CA]
Rep. Kenny Marchant [R-TX]
Rep. Kevin McCarthy [R-CA]
Rep. Michael McCaul [R-TX]
Rep. John McHugh [R-NY]
Rep. Thaddeus McCotter [R-MI]
Rep. Howard McKeon [R-CA]
Rep. John McHugh [R-NY]
Rep. Howard McKeon [R-CA]
Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers [R-WA]
Rep. Candice Miller [R-MI]
Rep. Gary Miller [R-CA]
Rep. Marilyn Musgrave [R-CO]
Rep. Devin Nunes [R-CA]
Rep. Joseph Pitts [R-PA]
Rep. Jon Porter [R-NV]
Rep. George Radanovich [R-CA]
Rep. Dave Reichert [R-WA]
Rep. Rick Renzi [R-AZ]
Rep. Michael Rogers [R-MI]
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher [R-CA]
Rep. Peter Roskam [R-IL]
Rep. Edward Royce [R-CA]
Rep. Paul Ryan [R-WI]
Rep. James Sensenbrenner [R-WI]
Rep. Christopher Shays [R-CT]
Rep. Christopher Smith [R-NJ]
Rep. Mark Souder [R-IN]
Rep. Timothy Walberg [R-MI]
Rep. James Walsh [R-NY]
Rep. Zach Wamp [R-TN]
Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers [R-WA]
Rep. Gerald Weller [R-IL]
Rep. Addison Wilson [R-SC]
Rep. Frank Wolf [R-VA]
Rep. Philip English [R-PA]
Rep. Bobby Jindal [R-LA]
Rep. John Shimkus [R-IL]
Rep. Roger Wicker [R-MS]

I will share any response if I receive one with all of you. If your own Congress Person is on this list please write to them, and who knows maybe we will find out there is a better reason for this resolution.

Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets

Proprietor Nation

Thanks for the list ... I was sufficiently ticked off to send a letter to MY Republican Co-Sponsor:

I am very concerned that you have taken the "feel good" position in co-sponsoring H.Res. 106, making it Congressional opinion that the Ottoman Empire's treatment of Armenians was "genocide."

I've known Armenians ... in Chicago and California, not in Texas. All despise what the Ottoman Turks did to their people. It probably was genocide. But it happened around 1915; the Empire fell in 1923; and the term "genocide" was not even coined until 1946.

This "feel good" measure will likely cost us a critical ally in the war on terror whose government bears no responsibility for the acts of the Ottomans ... perhaps the only truly democratic government of a primarily Muslim nation in the Middle East ... a NATO member since 1952 ... who lost almost 1,000 men (721 KIA 168 MIA) fighting besides us in Korea ... a nation that has hosted US military bases, radar stations, and missiles for fifty years.

If Congress had the fortitude to declare more immediate events (Rwanda, Darfur) acts of genocide, I might sympathize. But Congress paying "lip service" to events of a century ago ... where their political fortunes are not involved, so it's "ok" ... THAT I cannot tolerate.

Please withdraw your sponsorship ... or begin demonstrating again the foolishness of Congress by decrying the genocides of the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans ... or, closer to home, what might we call Texas versus the Karankawa(now recorded as "extinct")?

Earlier, I wondered if Congress would dredge up the Stalin purges right when we're working out some security and trade issues with Russia, Mao's abuses the next time China's MFN status comes up for renewal, the excesses of the Roman Empire the next time we need something from Italy or even, if this Armenian genocide thing blows over, some dirt on the Byzantine Empire to further drive a wedge between us and Turkey, all over again.

Say, if we're going to do this anyway, can we at least put it to good use and get Greece to reaffirm its grievances with the Persian Empire, to further pressure modern Iran?

lesterblog.blogspot.com

Note my response to self above. Something doesnt seem right.

I have met Ed Royce personally a couple of years ago and the man is very intellegent.

I would like some questions answered on this because the effect looks to be a slow bleed on our troops and a black eye with turkey.

is declared in Section 3 of the Resolution, after a long history lesson:

SEC. 3. DECLARATION OF POLICY.

The House of Representatives--

(1) calls upon the President to ensure that the foreign policy of the United States reflects appropriate understanding and sensitivity concerning issues related to human rights, ethnic cleansing, and genocide documented in the United States record relating to the Armenian Genocide and the consequences of the failure to realize a just resolution; and

(2) calls upon the President in the President's annual message commemorating the Armenian Genocide issued on or about April 24, to accurately characterize the systematic and deliberate annihilation of 1,500,000 Armenians as genocide and to recall the proud history of United States intervention in opposition to the Armenian Genocide.

Aside from the "feel-good" and "politically correct" statements of 3.1, the next section (3.2) calls on the President to denounce a UN ally since 1950, and a NATO member since 1952, every year! (The effect of the resolution would be to replace a reference to "annihilation" with the word "genocide." )

Of course, the ally, being ticked off by US condemnation for an event in which they had no participation (and, in fact, for which among other things the current democratic regime overthrew the previous autocratic and religious regime) may likely become less than cooperative in supporting our expeditionary forces in Iraq. But this would be good for the Democrats, even though

The President's April 24 [2001] statement represents a continuation of the Clinton Administration's policy of complicity in the Turkish government's policy to deny the Armenian Genocide.

there is no link.

Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets

Proprietor Nation

Moby Critters Graze in Congress

Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Senior writer for The Hinzsight Report

LINK

Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.

="http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=22793"Jed Babbin

Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets

Proprietor Nation

let's try this again

Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets

Proprietor Nation

The Turks have begun reconciling with the Armenians, but Congress can't resist a "feel good" opportunity.

The same event caused recalls of the Ambassadors to Canada and France in 2006. France continues to have lost flight privileges over Turkey.

I lost the references, but the fallout from Congress' recent inActions have already caused Turkey to pull both an Ambassador and an Admiral from the US. Yes .. the "back door" to Iraq is part of the Democrat's efforts to tick off an ally and member of NATO since 1952.

e.g. the ottoman empire, not the present turkey government - which this does.

please do not try to make it sound like the resolution is honest, as this one is written, it is not. At best its a misinformed political cheap shot.

At worst, its an attempt to slow bleed our troops and undermind an administration's foriegn policy efforts.

Maybe the Germans should have changed the country's name and said they didn't commit a holocaust. Same difference.

The administration's foreign policy is questionable at best. I don't see how trying to end a war that should not have started in the first place could be an "at worst" situation. Don't forget that nothing was found in Iraq that validated this farce of a war.

Maybe ending this war will help bring the US back to the top of the food chain and help restore the economy. As it stands, the country won't ba able to sustain this war for much longer without going into a recession.

If you had stopped at the first paragraph, you'd have gotten away with it clean. Democratic Party grandstanding aside, the Armenian Genocide has been something that the Turkish government is going to have to deal with. But it was that second paragraph that did you in - especially since it made clear that you didn't even read the text of the resolution in the first place.

So dry your crocodile tears and get thee hence.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

my congressman is not supporting the measure.

However, my representative (a Dem even) is not part of the co-sponsoring crew. Whether he'd vote for it is another matter.

'mispellers of the world, untie!'

if your rep is against it tell them you support it. If your Rep is cosponsoring it ask them what they hope to accomplish.

Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets

Proprietor Nation

What this shows is that the Democrats are total frauds on making and keeping allies.

HTML Help Central for Red Staters

when they say the will support the troops. They are willing to pass a ceremonial resolution knowing full well it will have real consequences to the soldiers in the field. Then, they also have the nerve to say that Bush has fractured alliances.

Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets

Proprietor Nation

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson

What about the prominent Republican Congressmen that co-sponsored the resolution?

---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets

Proprietor Nation

posted by paulseale above, and later noted by you. Have they since recinded thier support for the resolution?

isn't necessarily what came out of the committee.

Mind, I don't know that, but I suspect that. I've a hard time believing that some of our more idealistic Congressmen would intentionally bait Turkey. I've a much easier time believing they condemned a massacre, though. And the party-line vote referred to above tends to support that.

I hadn't considered the mark-up, or the party line vote out of commitee. I wonder where one would be able to find the orginal bill, and then compare it to the committe bill.

HTML Help Central for Red Staters

gcd

You got link?

The "loud people" wonder if you have a link to this survey, and do you have a point to make after having been here for 11 minutes.

And your point is?

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=256

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

I hope you burped....the baby that is.

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !

and his info is correct. The diarist said Turkey was a close ally that gave us cart blanche, this is wrong and wrong. Turkey is moving more and more Islamist, the French were right to call it a genocide.

Molon Labe!

Call it whatever you wish ... "genocide" applied to 1915 might be right, but it's offensive to the current government that had nothing to do with it and arose from the revolution of 1923 against the folks that committed the genocide.

This week, a tourist commented from Istanbul that it was hard to find a restaurant open during Ramadan (during the day) ... so maybe there is an Islamic (observing religion) movement there. There are still a few Fish Fries on Fridays, too, in the US.

The American tourist also commented on a visit with a Turkish woman:

"If your view of the typical Moslem [sic] woman is that veiled quiet subservient female, you haven't met [my friend]. Fiercely independent, opinionated, well educated, she would no sooner wear a veil than put a tree on her head. And oh yeah, she runs a multinational company."

That is today's (ok, Tuesday's) Turkey, putting aside politics ... where even the recently-elected Islamic-oriented government abides by the non-religious attitudes of Ataturk, and is not a little concerned about their own military keeping them "in line."

While the Islamic-rooted Justice and Development Party won 34.28% of the vote in 2002, and 46.66% of the vote this year, there are many in opposition.

Turkey is a close ally; they've distanced themselves a bit recently; this Congressional resolution is only likely to distance them even more: both their political parties and their military.

Even assuming the accuracy of this graph (since you didn't provide a link), why should this factoid have any bearing on whether Congress should vote in October 2007 on a non-binding resolution about the Armenian massacre when the only effect will be to anger every Turk and endanger our troops and our efforts in Iraq (and therefore endanger the stability of Iraq, etc.)

Or are you our old friend Demophilus turning up once more like the proverbial bad penny?

And Rightly So!

Bye, sturgisboy41!

Moe

PS: Don't bother with cantutaketheheat. He had to leave the kitchen.

(pause)

Sorry, guys: I'm trying to do this and feed a baby. Wit goes out the window.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Because there's a lot of countries missing from that list.
---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

wouldn't ... then the first one that was looked at by here...

meaningless

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson

why the Turkish military remains committed to defending the secular republic. They know how infectious jihadism is, perhaps in no small part due to the events of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, including the Armenian violence. Indeed, this is what gave rise to the empire in the first place, and its legacy is still felt today from the aftermath of the Yugoslav wars to the state of affairs in the Middle East.

lesterblog.blogspot.com

I live in Istanbul and the negative views towards America is a recent event (within the last 4 years). The major reasons all stem from Iraq.

1) The US military detaining (and humiliating as perceived by the Turks) 11 Turkish soldiers in northern Iraq (2003). There was even a popular Turkish movie made about the incident.
2) The lack of US action against the PKK in northern Iraq.
3) The civilian deaths in Iraq (way over played here in the Turkish media).
4) The US reaction to Turkey after the Turkish parliament refused to allow the US to use Turkey in its intial invasion. Particularly, Rumsfeld blaming Turkey for the Iraq instability.

At first, there was just a negative attitude towards the US government, but lately it is really turning negative to Americans as a whole. The Armenian issue is making even worse.

Do you think they are engaging in a circuitous route to forestall an attack on Iran? Or is this an incidental "benefit" of their effort to starve out our troops?

And Rightly So!

Whom besides you and the mouse in your pocket have mentioned this having anything to do with Turkey invading Iraq because of the PKK?

-------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

That's a site moderator asking you, mind.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

An incursion in Iraq by Turkey will turn the Kurds against us if we do not defend them; and if we do strike back against Turkey, our forces will be have to divert resources to northern areas that are now peaceful.

In short, Turkey will screw things up without any help from no genocide bill.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Must be baby-feeding time in the Lane household again.

-------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

What this essentially boils down to is that your answer to Paul's question - that being the title of his story - is simply "No".

Do I have that about right?

Because I for one don't think the PKK/Iraq/Turkey border issue is factoring one iota into whatever calculations SanFran Nan and her merry band of foreign policy novices are making. But that is a subject for a different discussion.

-------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

Burma will get taken up in oh around 2099, assuming there's a situation where a Democratic congress thinks they can use it to hurt a Republican president.

Is there some great advantage here in angering the Turks?

It's a resolution that accomplishes ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - except to honk off a nation that, while not terribly friendly, is pretty darn useful right now. There's no sensible reason to make the charge.

If you're complaining that we have a foreign policy where we have to worry about what Turkey thinks, you may have a point. But isolationism isn't a good solution for us either. If you've ideas here, feel free to share.

Even George W. Bush, our president, admitted it in 2000.
Bush is not against labeling it genocide for practical reasons. But was it genocide? He thinks so.

So are you saying that a non-binding resolution that has absolutely no enforcement and changes nothing is labeling? What is the point if nobody is really denying it?

The point is that it is a loose-loose for Bush. If he supports it, we could loose the co-operation of Turkey and make the Turkey-Iraq border situation worse. If Bush speaks against it, the Dems (and people like you) can accuse him of ignoring genocide.

Enjoy your little political game. I wish that was all it was. There is no upside from this resolution. The Armenians are not coming back from life. The Turks are not going to apologize. This has no practical affect on preventing any future genocide. Worse it could lead to more instability and death in Iraq just when things were looking up. This is horribly irresponsible of the Democrats and anyone who votes for this.

I do not know the whole story, but it seems many here do or think they do. Those are some awfully good Republicans listed as co sponsors, I doubt they are trying to destroy our efforts in Iraq.

All this talk about Turkey being a great ally and helping us in Iraq is making me sick.

Molon Labe!

...but we sure as h*** don't want them to ally with Iran and Syria. (If you have any question as to why, just look at a map.)

And Rightly So!

They are an ally. Something like 90% of our fuel and 2/3rds of our supplies are routed through Turkey to the Middle East. That's a very big deal. They help us a great deal in the GWOT. I'm not eager to make then an enemy.

There's no point in ticking Turkey off based on a purely symbolic measure concerning something that happened almost 100 years ago. Most of the Republicans (and a good chunk of the Democrats) that voted for this, probably voted for it because they are idiots who did not consider the consequences of their actions.
---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

which ought to be pointed out more often. Turkey did finally decriminalize the Kurdish language, after all, along with some other humanitarian concessions demanded by the EU. It's not perfect but it's not really apartheid, either.

I think most Kurds in both Turkey and Iraq recognize that the PKK is a Marxist terrorist organization that can bring no benefit to anyone in the theater. The only real contention is the issue of how to fight them with respect to Iraqi sovereignty. I don't think many people can blame Turkey for having had enough of the PKK's own cross-border incursions.

lesterblog.blogspot.com

our invasion of Iraq. Anti-Americanism in Turkey is a sickness that pervades the entire society. I am well aware Turkey is making tons of money off of Iraq. There are many Turkish companies doing contract business in Iraq.

I am not saying this resolution is a good idea. I am saying Turkey is severely anti-American and the Turkish populace and govenment is moving away from Ataturk's vision of a secular state. I am also saying when we really needed Turkey (prior to the invasion) they let us down.

It is one thing to oppose this resolution. It is one thing to consider the international repercussions. It is quite another to sugar coat our problems with Turkey and how they have moved far away from even the relationship we had 10 years ago.

I would bet I have read more on the Turkey issue than most posting here and defending that state.

Molon Labe!

There are issues with Turkey, but like there aren't issues with places like Pakistan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia who are also our allies? Turkey's refusal to let us launch an invasion from their territory was the result of a vote in a real legislature that has real power and was really elected by the people... something that's a rarity in the Middle East. Would there be any doubt what the vote would be had it been just about any other country in the Middle East? Of course, the populations of most of those other countries get zero say in their government so we are somewhat insulated from their views.

We have a lot of less than 100% dependable allies. But I'm all for keeping every one we have. We don't need more enemies.
---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Bush is not denying the Armenian genocide. He is simply opposing a non-binding, do-nothing, cynically manipulative congressional resolution.

I mostly just don't trust Congress to not make things worse.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

And an anonymous email account, too. Well, that'd be enough on its own.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

If we always had leaders who quit wars because they were unpopular, then we would have lost almost every war.

Molon Labe!

I've read that the Mexican-American War was unpopular. Certainly the Civil War was not especially popular in the Union states, as is evident in the New York draft riots. Who knows, if instantaneous mass media had existed during the Whiskey Rebellion, the nascent United States might have been completely fragmented.

lesterblog.blogspot.com

If they did a vote on the American Revolution at the beginning, it would have lost in many colonies too.

Molon Labe!

Even if one were to agree that the President's strategy has failed, and that the Democrats are right and we should pull out now. Even if we had already removed all of our troops from Iraq, it would still not be sound to pass this resolution given the diplomatic reaction from a country that has been in NATO for decades and has been an ally of the U.S. long before the 2003.

If the comment was meant as a defense of what the Democrats did here, it is even worse - it admits that the Democrats have done this to get indirectly what they have not been able to get the support to do directly - stop the war, cut off the funding, or demand the withdrawal (or even a reduction in the number) of troops. It is intentionally provoking an international incident over an event we can do nothing about in order to get someone else to do what they cannot.

I would have loved a couple of answers out of IT before you pulled the trigger but oh well.

How does one use "obstinate posture" as an excuse to justify cutting supply lines to your own army that is engaged in a war and have the stupidity to call it a "controversy" instead of the cowardly act that it is, if that is the result?

"US and North American Indian historical record." WHAAAAAT?

On second thought Moe, I see the wisdom in the quick snuffing.

that any words today

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson

A precedent embalms a principle.
- Disraeli

http://armenianstudies.csufresno.edu/faculty/kouymjian/articles/us_armen...

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson

America has served a potential refuge for many oppressed people, including Armenians. Sorry, at first I didn't understand what you were getting at.

A precedent embalms a principle.
- Disraeli

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson

HTML Help Central for Red Staters

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson

Of course, just because you're a secessionist with a Columbus fetish doesn't mean you can't be my friend. I consider being friends with you an opportunity to earn tolerance brownie points without having to be nice to immigrants, panhandlers, and homosexuals. (-;

A precedent embalms a principle.
- Disraeli

Lincoln's portrait has donned my law office wall for 15 years. I'm an American from the South.

As to fetishes...Looney Tunes (Daffy, Bugs, Foghorn L...)

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson

Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.

that LSU had a weakness at QB. I totally underrated KY. I guess this all means that my Gamecocks are the bomb?!!

Now, let's see how the Sooners fare.

OSU looks to be the B10s only hope?

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson

for founding that school down there in Ohio. I blame the man personally!

I am coming to have a personal stake in a Wolverine victory so as to boost my USC's chances for a national ch...

shut you mouf

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson

Sorry, the second sentence of my first paragraph should read "The authors of the resolution are correct in labeling Turkey's actions vis-a-vis the Armenians an act of attempted genocide."

My only excuse is that I was very tired when I wrote that sentence.

A precedent embalms a principle.
- Disraeli

Is the cutoff right at 90 years or are we going back 100, 200, 500, 1000 years and find people to condemn for all the unfortunate events that happened throughout history? I don't see how it is any of the business of the US government. This is not a current event. There's no need to take up the issue at all.
---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

LINK

Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.

---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

We're not in fundamental disagreement here. As I said in my third paragraph, there is no need to take up this issue during our current war effort. It is not a pressing issue at all.

As for our responsibility with regard to the Armenian Holocaust, you are correct that we have no direct responsibility. On the other hand, we do have an indirect responsibility because: 1) There is a large Armenian population in the United States (See Gamecock's post above); 2) They still have family members in Turkey; 3) Turkey still persecutes Armenians (not as much, but they still do it).

For much the same reason the United States concerns itself with the fate of the Jewish people and the State of Israel. Because a large body of our population is related to a large portion of their population Israel simply matters a lot more to Americans than, let's say, Namibia. There are other reasons why we care about Israel, of course, but that's one of the main ones.

A precedent embalms a principle.
- Disraeli

Even if previous generations of Americans were the actual perpetrators of the events. We should not be in the business of producing any kind of apology or condemnation resolutions, unless we are doing so for our own propaganda purposes.

Passing empty, feel good resolutions about things that have occurred in the distant past should not be the work of Congress.
---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

Take substantive action about your feel good causes, or take up better causes.

HTML Help Central for Red Staters

That would be something like naming the post office in some city the "mbecker908 Memorial Postal Facility" in honor of some of my more "postal" offerings at Redstate.

This is a fully loaded, purposeful resolution. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with Armenians currently living in either the US or Turkey or any Armenians that were killed in the genocide. It has to do with attempting to hinder our ability to supply our troops in Iraq.

By those guys who "support the troops". "Patriots" all.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

The mbecker908 institute for the study of John Paul doctrine?

____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

LOL

Every member of the Blue Dogs that votes for this should become the instant target of intense pressure. All those "conservative Democrats" that got elected last year should think real hard before they interfere diplomacy with pointless resolutions.

Given that the Bush Administration and Turkey have made it abundantly clear what the consequences of this dog-and-pony-show vote will be, nobody can claim ignorance - everyone who votes yes on this resolution is voting yes to flushing relations with a NATO ally and believes that an 80-year-old event warrants such a break in relations.

... it is rather pathetic, isn't it? The Democrats have proven themselves utterly unable to lead on the Iraq issue, but since they have to appease their base somehow they resort to this cowardly tactic. Unfortunately, while fortune may favor the bold, the electorate often favors the craven.

A precedent embalms a principle.
- Disraeli

.

like that ugly green sweater that you wear, it doesn't look nice but this should be more effective...

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-harman12oct12,0,3479203.story?...

Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets

Proprietor Nation

LINK

Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.

unless you also express it to person that represents you in Congress. It is not good enough just to say what you said here. Please follow up with your representative and let them know as well.

Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets

Proprietor Nation

That's why I've already posted to Jack Kingston who is the only Georgia representative on the list that I could see, but my eyes have been known to miss things so if there was another tell me and I'll post to them too.

Venting in forum is definately not enough. I intend to also write a few letters to the editor, but given the local fishwrapper is the Al-Jezera Constitution opperating under the thinly veiled banner of 'The Atlanta Journal-Constitution' I hold no illusions of what will happen to my letter.

I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say it to the very death.

I fully support the sovereign right of the United States to vote for any law or resolution it wants regardless of what some foreign country thinks of us. I will not let Turkey dictate to our Congress what it should or should not do.

OK Bubba, you really need to go back in your cave.

First of all, Turkey isn't trying to dictate anything.

Secondly, foreign policy is the pervue of the Executive Branch, not the Congress. That this particular Congress is attempting to pass a NON-FREAKING-BINDING-RESOLUTION that could only serve to offend the government of Turkey is simply beyond the pale. The whole point here has zip to do with anything that happened in Turkey before 2003 and I seriously doubt if any of the sponsors of this stupidity can even spell "Armenian".

You are a raving lunatic.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

If Turkey isn't trying to dictate our politics why did it recall their ambassador to Washington? That's a political maneuver designed to put pressure and influence Congress decisions. I do not think we need to be bullied by foreign governments, you apparently do.

And please refrain from the personal attacks.

you are an idiot is not a personal attack. Any more than you pointing out that I have a beard, a balding pate and a bad disposition. It's simply a statement of fact.

Turkey is free to express their disgust with the Congress as they are a soveriegn nation. This is not the first time this sort of thing has prompted a reaction from the Turks. A similar exercize in stupidity by the French resulted in the Turks denying the French airspace rights over Turkey. Those still have not been restored.

The bottom line is quite simple. The Congressional Democrats are unable to impact the war in the US Congress. They assume that by passing a specious non-binding resolution that Turkey will bent out joint and stop our access to Iraq through their country. Since we currently ship the vast majority of our food and fuel through Turkey, once again the Congressional Democrats are proving just how much they support the troops.

This is decidedly NOT about the US being "bullied" by a foreign government, it is precisely about the Democrats trying to find a back door to damage the war effort in Iraq.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

"This is decidedly NOT about the US being "bullied" by a foreign government"

It most certainly is!!! You are afraid that Turkey will stop our supply lines if we don't do what they want and you support remaining hostage to their demands. Well they wouldn't let us use their country to stage the invasion in 2003 but that didn't stop us, did it? You need to stop allowing foreign countries to dictate our policies, go work for the UN if you want to please the rest of the world.

In point of fact countries act in their own national interest.

Turkey has an internal problem with jihadists and with Kurdish terrorist organizations HQ'd in Kurdistan. They deemed it to be internally risky to allow the US Army to transverse Turkish soil when they made that decision. As a matter of fact, that particular event looked more like the US dictating policy to Turkey rather than the other way around.

Since the invasion flap of 2003, the Turks have been a very valuable US ally. They've allow us to move millions of tons of supplies through their country (on trucks driven, mostly, by Kurdish drivers) into Iraq. This patently political move by Reid & Co is nothing more than the US Congress sticking their collective political thumb in the eye of the Turks and daring them to react. And, as a matter of fact, no US troops crossed Turkish soil in 2003. It didn't stop the invasion of Iraq, but it certainly hampered operations in the North and in the Sunni Triangle and our lack of troops in the North can arguably be the cause of much of the trouble after the initial invasion and victory because we did not have a military footprint in the region and Saddamist forces disappeared in the region.

With respect to your specious - and really stupid - comment about "...allowing foreign countries to dictate our policies...", Turkey is NOT trying to dictate anything to us. The official policy of the US, as set by the current Administration, is silence on the issue of genocide in 1915. And, it's the same policy that's been in place with respect to this issue for all of my obnouxously long life. The folks who are attempting to dictate US policy is the leadership of the Democratic Party in Congress. And they have no Constitutional say in what that foreign policy is or should be.

And I don't give a tinkers dam about the rest of the world, but I do recognize their soveriegnty to pursue policies that they believe are in their interest even when they are not in ours. See France for starters.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

"The official policy of the US, as set by the current Administration, is silence on the issue of genocide in 1915"

Isn't the Administration's position not to define it as genocide?

Why does it matter what their policy is vis a vis an event that happened almost a hundred years ago?

Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets

Proprietor Nation

almost a hundred years, what's the difference and what's your point? On second thought, forget the question, you don't have a point.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

"But, the most important thing is that the US Congress has already approved a similar resolution on the Armenian Genocide in 1975 and 1984. Moreover, in 1981, US President Ronald Reagan signed a Presidential Proclamation designating the events of 1915 as Genocide. Since the US President has admitted the fact of the Armenian Genocide by signing an official declaration and the US Congress has approved the aforementioned resolution twice, the adoption of the resolution for the third time is of little importance. The Armenian Genocide has already been recognized and the resolution will not add anything new."

http://www.regnum.ru/english/897320.html

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson

the Congress wants to pass a non binding resolution about an incident that is nearly one hundred years old about a country that no longer exists. It is purely for show.

On the flip side, Turkey is quite likely going to get so mad that they may cut off their air space and supply lines.

What is your position, Turkey won't dictate our Congress which non binding resolutions we will or won't pass. I agree the Turks, like everyone in that region, are totally irrational. They get all sensitive when our Congress passes a non binding resolution.

It's kind of like this. I notice that women get all sensitive and irrational when I call them fat. Thus, I don't call them fat. I don't take the approach that I won't let a women bully me into not speaking my mind about their weight.

If there was a practical benefit to this resolution, your points would have water, but ultimately everything you say boils down to opening a pandora's box for a resolution that is non binding.

What is your solution? We won't be bullied, and so we will pass this, and let's play diplomatic chicken with the Turks and see how far they will take this. I suppose this is the Dems new approach toward foreign policy. Don't you think it is totally disingenuous to say that Bush has isolated us, ticked off our allies, and whatever, when the Dems version of foreign policy amounts to ticking off one of our biggest allies in the region over a non binding resolution for an even that is nearly one hundred years old.

Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets

Proprietor Nation

...that the Turks aren't going to do anything in response. Didn't you hear?

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Honestly, I think this resolution helps the Turkish governmant save face with its public. The general population there is not a big fan of the US and they are getting fed up with the Kurdish cross-border raids that kill civilians and the US is doing little to put a halt to those.

They have two methods of retaliation against us for this non-binding resolution; cut off our supply routes or use their troops to cross the Iraq border to chase down the Kurds. The supply routes actually bring them some work and money so they'll go with the chasing down the Kurds, which earns them points with the Turkish public.

US interests exactly how?

Since the US Congress is *supposed* to be concerned primarily with US interests just why should the Congressional Democrats be jamming this piece of crap through the House now? Especially since the likely result, according to you, will be:
** Border incursions by Turkish troops which may blow the border sky high.
** Elimination of our ability to supply our troops via a northern route which could severely impact our ability to conduct operations.

All for the sake of non-binding resolution over something that happened a hundred years ago in a country that no longer exists. Frankly, I'd support the Administration if they arrested the idiots who support this crap and made them part of a rendition program. I think it would be good for some CongressCritters™ to see the inside of an infamous CIA program.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

Border pursuits by Turkish troops to North would help put an end to the Kurdish terrorists crossing over and killing civilians. How does it "blow the border sky high"? The Turkish military is a recently upgraded, highly mobile force that could add a great deal of stability to the border which now doesn't exist. That's a benefit.

1. Border pursuits will cross the Turkish/Iraqi border, no? Last I looked, that's called an act of war. Given the fact that the Kurds are an integral and critical part of the Iraqi governing coalition, I would guess that might be a big deal to the Iraqis.

2. Exactly how do either of these "results" serve US interests. And isn't the Congress supposed to consider US interests in anything they do?
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

Yes, I would agree that Iraq Kurds crossing the border into Turkey is an act of war and Turkey has a right to defend itself no?

Considering that Turkey just signed a huge oil and gas deal with Iran, I'd say their status as an ally is tenuous and if Congress wants to give them a political jab I am all for it.

earlier...
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

Brush up on your foreign policy next time

http://www.redstate.com/blogs/paulseale/2007/oct/11/are_democrats_using_...

every 22 or 16 years?

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson

Too bad you can't ask Saddam about such things.

Jabbing tenuous allies just to stir the pot? WARMONGER!

And we got the right to shoot ourselves in the foot just because Cher tells us we should. Doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do.
---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

email those that aren't on the list and let them know you support their effort to stand up to this thing. When Congress people get pressured to vote for things they weigh that against public opinion, if they don't know that people like you will stand behind them when they stand up against this ridiculous thing, they may guage that public opinion is not against voting for the resolution.

Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Potato Head, back doors are not secrets

Proprietor Nation

Turkey is not that dumb, meaning their leaders. They know what is up. But they do have pressure to crack down on the PKK. I know I sound calm here yet I bashed Turkey upthread. I am just giving you the info I have heard. I have heard that some Turk leaders actually singled out the Democrats on this thing.

I admit I am still chapped at Turkey. I truly want them to be the allies many in this thread claim them to be. I have Turkish friends and contacts. I take the Washington Times, a paper that has a Turkey column at least once a week. I am saddened by the anti-American sentiment in Turkey. Also, I am a bit amazed that conservatives on this site are so angry about calling an Islamic radical genocide on Armenian Christians of no consequence.

Furthermore, many in this thread have said the Turkish government was not involved. Well think about it, if they were not involved, then why would they be so upset? The reality is Turkey has been a very worrisome place over the last six years. The Turkey we once knew as a loyal Nato ally really no longer exists.

It is true the military is still considered secular, but they do not act much anymore because they fear the populace. The reality is the most popular book in Turkey for many months recently was "Mein Kampf". And the most popular movie was a fiction about American troops mistreating Turks, torturing Iraqi's and selling their body parts in Tel Aviv.

Trust me, I do not want to report this. You can do a google search and all this will come up in the mainstream press. The reality is Turkey has stuck it in our eye countless times since 9/11. I would feel ashamed to join the others and play down a genocide on poor Christian Armenians simply because I think it will help us in Iraq. The Turkish government is not stupid, and if we back down they will NOT respect us more. How many times have we heard Muslims only respect courage. There was a time the Christian nations felt the same way.

I do not know if the Dems are making this play to hurt our plans in Iraq. But I know I do NOT feel like backing down at this juncture. I certainly am not going to ignore the deaths of millions in order to make my life easier. If I did that, I would be less able to face mylself. I understand everyone on this thread is strong in their beliefs. My beliefs are no better. However, as someone who cares about Turkey, who values Turkey, I am fed up with backing down, and I will NEVER back down on the backs of Armenians who were killed for their religion.

Molon Labe!

I am not an expert on Turkey, but I know they are having their own internal struggle over the future direction of the country. There is pressure to go Islamist vs. staying a secular state. The pressure from the Jihadists is not only growing as the Imams teach radicalism, but the threat of internal violence is always looming in the background. The Islamists have no conscience in using force to impose their ideology.

On the other hand the Armenian genocide is one of the worst atrocities of the 20th century. It became the inspiration for Hitler to realize that if the Turks could get away with it he could too.

A previous poster showed that the U.S. has already called it a genocide so I don't know what is driving this current move.
I agree that we need to speak the truth of the situation, but I am very suspicious as to the timing. Since the Dems are leading the effort you have to figure in their devious anti-war strategy is a part of the playbook.

Molon Labe!