Challenge for Immigration Restrictionists: Are Most Americans in Favor of Amnesty?

By PopulistConservative Posted in Comments (18) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »

It seems like whenever there is an immigration debate I hear something like "80% of people just want enforcement", and the general impression is made that the vast majority of people are on the side of the people who are opposed to any path to legalization and just for enforcement. One gets the impression that there is this super majority that is being suppressed by the few in Congress.
I have looked at the polling and I cannot recall seeing one poll that shows a majority of people against a path to legalization. It seems all the polls show between around 60-80% of people being in favor of a path to legalization for illegal immigrants. The HTML messes up how I show the polls, in the following poll just keep in mind that the first numbers are those who support, second numbers those who oppose and last numbers those who don't know. The polling comes from: http://pollingreport.com/immigration.htm. First check out this poll:

CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. May 4-6, 2007. N=1,028 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.

.

"Would you favor or oppose each of the following proposals? . . ."

.

Favor Oppose Unsure
% % %
"Building a 700 mile long fence on the border with Mexico"

5/4-6/07
45 53 2
10/20-22/06
45 53 2
6/8-11/06
45 50 5
.

"Creating a temporary worker program that would allow foreign citizens to enter the U.S. for several months to work but would not allow them to apply for U.S. citizenship"

5/4-6/07
48 50 2
5/16-17/06
48 46 7
.

"Creating a program that would allow illegal immigrants already living in the United States for a number of years to stay in this country and apply for U.S. citizenship if they had a job and paid back taxes"

5/4-6/07
80 19 1
4/10-12/07
77 21 2
5/16-17/06
79 18 3

So to summarize there is a plurality against building a 700 mile fence, people are split on a temporary worker program, and about 80% of people are in favor of a path to legalization and US citizenship for illegals. Now take this poll:

Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg Poll. April 5-9, 2007. N=1,373 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.
When it comes to dealing with illegal immigration, do you favor an approach that focuses only on tougher enforcement of immigration laws, or an approach that includes both tougher enforcement of immigration laws and also creates a guest worker program that allows undocumented workers to work legally in the U.S. on temporary visas?" Options rotated

40% of people were for enforcement only, 55% for a guest worker program and 5% were unsure. Not exactly 80% that only want enforcement is it?

Now here is my challenge to those of you crying that there is this vast majority against amnesty: (which you seem to claim is anything which allows the illegals to be forgiven ie a path to legalization) show me one poll that shows a majority of Americans opposed to some path to legalization. Also for those of you, who are enforcement only supporters and think that the majority of the country is on your side, I challenge you to show me one poll that shows that you are even in the majority. I have shown one poll to both challenges ( I would show more, but the HTML makes showing tables hard) so all I ask from you is one poll that even shows that your position is in the majority. Have at it.

By the way I am talking about scientific polls not straw polls.

Okay, so maybe the polls show that many would be open to allowing illegals to be given a path to citizenship. For the record, I am an enforcement only type of guy, and I don't care whether anyone agrees with me or not. Here is my challenge to you:

Please describe to me how it is beneficial to America and Americans to reward with citizenship or any legal status those who have broken our laws, disrespected our sovereignty (illegal entry or overstay of visa), disrespected our citizens (waving Mexican flag while demanding to be exonerated of law breaking, some of us will not forgive or forget this act unless there were to be a public apologogy, I won't hold my breath) and even disrespected our police officers (throwing rocks and bottles at the end of their "demonstrations").

Please explain how these poor, uneducated, non-English speaking trespassers and their many children (who will undoubtedly vote in favor of what is good Mexicans both in US and Mexico) will no longer require the tax paying citizen to foot their bill.

Please explain to me how by granting Amnesty it will not lead to further illegal immigration. 1986 Amnesty program ring any bells?

Please explain to me why we need to have a provision to legalize millions of law breakers before addressing border security. (border enforcement laws have been on the books long before any current proposals of amnesty and should be addressed immediately, not when a "comprehensive immigration bill" is approved).

Before you go on and on about the great work that comes from illegals, keep in mind that we are the greatest country the world has ever seen and I believe that it really would be no problem having invited appreciative immigrants take up the work "Americans won't do". And yes, I'm willing to tough out any theoretical economic down side I've heard touted about by liberal economic "scholars" that may or may not come as a reult of mass deportation (which, by the way, can be done if the law was simply enforced). This country would recover quickly and efficiently. It really doesn't take that long to train someone to pick fruit or clean houses, mow lawns, or any of the other great and wonderful things I hear that the illegals are doing.

How nice it would be if we saved the billions of dollars we are spending on supporting these illegal free loaders and criminals, and either refunded it back to tax payers, or spent it on something worth while, such as a border fence. No I don't care how Mexico, Latin America, the UN or anyone else for that matter, perceives a fence. If they don't like it...tough. I (and many other Americans, I assure you) don't like paying for ungrateful, disrespectful free loading citizens from south of the border.

And to address where people are getting 80% in favor of enfocement, it comes from the numerous polls that have been seen on FOX news, CNN during the initial marches from the illegals in spring of 2006. Since then, I suppose many people have grown soft and/or complacent. I don't know, I really don't care. Just because a certain amount of people decide it's okay to turn a blind eye to a serious problem, doesn't make it a good thing for this country. Fundamentally, for any society it is important to uphold the rule of reasonable law especially as it pertains to sovereignty and immigration. I don't think it is unreasonable for the US to have immigration laws and border enforcement. If it is the majority opinion that it is not reasonable to control who comes into our country, then God help us. Encouraging more illegal entry with rewards and benefits does nothing but hurt this country.

The only path I am interested in for these law breakers is a pathway back to their homeland and a stern warning that if they come back again illegally, they can stay....in our jail. How's that for state funded benefits?

Jimbo

I understand where you're coming from Jimbo as I used to think exactly the same way.

We should absolutely build a fence and close down illegal immigration and make them go through the same process as others. But, the Republican party has let you down for the past 40 years, so that's what you get for not making yourself heard and marching in the streets.

Here's the reality:

Once you legalize 12 million people, many will come out of the woodwork and get jobs where they have to pay taxes, instead of working jobs off the books. Employers will also HAVE to start paying them better and also paying benefits and employment taxes on them. The result would be increased tax revenues. Some would also get jobs that offered insurance and wouldn't have to freeload off of the system. They aren't freeloading that much trust me. They go to the hospital if they are about to die and you wouldn't want their health status. The jobs they do are back breaking and they bust their ass 6-7 days a week for jack shit.

If they are legalized, they would also be able to take loans with no problem and start buying houses, cars, etc. boosting the economy even more.

You will also get more of them participating in society instead of being afraid to report crimes, or not getting legal driver's licenses or insurance.

If you really wanted to deport 12 million people, you probably could. It would cost billions of dollars, cause untold riots in the streets, divide families, states and various industries. The court system would get flooded with immigration lawsuits and some states with latino majorities like California, Texas and New Mexico could get pissed off enough to cause major political problems or even secede.

Industries like agriculture wouldn't just suffer, they would disappear. Here in California all the work is done by immigrants, many illegal. You don't just find 300 people willing to pick strawberries or lettuce overnight. You wouldn't just pay more for produce, you wouldn't get any at all. You most likely wouldn't get much meat either because most meat packing plants are the same way. If you sent all the illegals home, the gringos are not going to come running in droves to fill those jobs. Not gonna happen dude.

Also, 12 million people buy a lot of shit and pay a lot of sales tax. If they are gone, that means less taxes.

The US demographics are changing, like it or not. Over 100 million people are not white. Latinos are growing the fastest. The second generations will learn and know English just as Germans, Italians and others did. Integration is not really a problem, it will happen automatically.

The US is a Spanish speaking nation already with 35 million Spanish speakers. That is nothing to fear. Make sure your kids learn Spanish, grab a Corona and go with the flow.

American businesses will still need to find sub-minimum wage workers. So more and more illegals will come here.

We saw in 1986 that amnesty did not work. There really should be no debate.

The dirty secret is a large part of these illegals don't really want to be americans. I know they were told after May 1, 2006 to hide their mexican flags.

I can't wait until my country becomes like the former Yugoslavia. Everyone seems to want it.

like welfare benefits to illegals, illegals committing crimes and then just fleeing across the border, or not being deported.
The importation of Mexican style politics and of course Mexican and South American drug gangs, always a fun time!

The huge financial crash due to pressure on social services that our border cities are currently undergoing, (coming to a city near you!)

The anger unfairness and despair of those from other nations who would like to be immigrants, but can't get in. You know like all those well educated people from India and Eastern Europe, the kind we might actually need in our economy.

Oh, yeah, disrespect for law, disrespect for the will of the majority, more fuel for anti-white, and anti-conservative hatred.

But you don't see any problems do ya sparky?

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

without a tax break, I differ on this one. I would do this deal upon a condition that neither McCain, nor Kennedy would willingly meet. I would be willing to accept this, if the number of physically passable entry points on our Southern Border were restricted to five, and five only.

This would involve a massive fence construction project, 800 miles doesn't get none. Besides, we couldn't have all 12 million of these new Americans here withou putting them to work for a living.

We cannot have the amnesty deal without The Berlin Wall. It is categorically unfair to only p--- off the wingnuts w/o taking a whizz into the Cheerios eaten by moonbats as well.

I should run for President on this platform. If I were in the Senate right now, I'd introduce the Jack Nicholson Amendment. "You don't want to admit this, bu deep down inside, you want me on that wall!"

END

Lots of "anti-amnesty" people quote polls that show majorities of Americans want tougher enforcement and then they take that and claim that that means people want ONLY tougher enforcement, despite the fact that every poll I've seen indicates that a majority of people want tougher enforcement AND a path to citizenship for most people who are already here. Isn't it nice that I happen to be with the majority of American's on this one.

ABC News/Facebook poll. Dec. 16-19, 2007. N=1,142 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3. Fieldwork by TNS.

"Would you support or oppose a program giving illegal immigrants now living in the United States the right to live here legally if they pay a fine and meet other requirements?"

  Support  Oppose           Unsure
  % % %
12/16-19/07  49 46 5
9/27-30/07 58 35 7

As you can see from Sept 2007 to Dec 2007 support for amnesty dropped nine percentage points. And this trend will continue in spite of the mainstream media's biased reporting.

I believe that as the voting public becomes more aware of the real facts they will not allow any type amnesty sneak into an immigration reform Bill. Immigration reform is not racist, nor is it an attempt to preserve 'white' culture. Immigration reform is a matter of security and survival of this Nation for your children and grandchildren.

TXPoet

One year later and the thread pops back to life. Amzing.

when there is so much more data in those polls

http://pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

My favorite part of the poll was this portion:

"Would you like to see the number of illegal immigrants currently in this country increased or decreased, or remain the same?"

Increased Decreased Same Unsure
1/14-17/08 5% 65% 29% 1%

I couldn't get the formatting right and didn't feel like typing the rest but it is in the poll...65 percent want illegal immigrants already in this country decreased....We had this discussion last week and I bet you for every poll you find I can find another to speak to the silent majority agreeing that illegal is illegal.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

I mean I'm not complaining its kind of cool, it's just strange. Now, that I got that out of my system, the poll you got there doesn't say they want the illegal population dropped down to zero, it says they wanted it dropped. As liberal as I am on immigration I don't think everybody should stay. So that doesn't real prove anything about how many people are for sending everybody home, are who is against all amnesty. The post was in response to peope who throw out huge numbers of people who are supposedly against amnesty - and amnesty is supposed to be interpreted in a Tancredoite manner. The polls I showed, showed that clearly there wasn't such a obvious majority.

is asked.....sorry for the delay I had to drive home from work :-)

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

that you it seems to have about a 10% margin of error. My beef is with those who claim with confidence that 80% of the country is anti - amnesty or some such things, even polls that use the hot button word " Amnesty" don't seem to show that.

attention and that is why they are hot buttons but you the other day said 60-80% want some form of amnesty and that is not true either...I personally think from my reading of the beating congress took last summer that it is a good 55 percent who are not happy with making those who have done something illegal, legal....I think if a poll took out the word immigrant and than asked do you think people who have done something illegal should have their charge removed there by making that something no longer illegal...I believe you would find the numbers much higher....NO ONE except liberals believe in forgiveness for illegal activities...and remember illegals have not broken just one law they are breaking felony laws by using someone else's SS#.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

about 60-80% of people are in favor of some form of legalization. Now this blog was posted a year ago so things certainly may have changed. I think most Americans just don't see sending all of the illegals home as practical, and they also don't want to see a permanent underground working class which would be the other choice besides legalization.

government benefits in a down turned economy....and really no one is saying send them all home...employer verification has been shown to work in all of the states that have implemented them...they will self deport...no not all of them but a large portion will if it is the law of the land and is enforced.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

on my RedState Blog. It doesn't include amnesty, but it offers hope for some of those wanting to later become citizens. It offers what I think is a fair quota system for permanent residency and for guest workers. It also offers a humane way of dealing with the "anchor child" problem. I keep hearing people say we couldn't send that many home and to that I have to respond we must. This country had no problems in the past with rounding up large groups of people and relocating them just ask my Cherokee ancestors!
TXPoet

 
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