Redstate

SteveLA,

If this comment was an isolated event in the Brownback campaign, I would agree with you. Unfortunately, it's not. The comment I quoted was admittedly the most over-the-top comment on the thread, but several others are not much worse.

Go to the full site blogs4brownback.wordpress.com and scroll down to "catagories."

Check out the posts and comments on Romney/Mormonism. Now read the posts and comments on Fred Thompson.

Brownback and his supporters have been running one attack after another, and I just think it's time that he start to feel some heat for it. It's ugly, and it needs to stop.

who is acting over the top?

____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

What's great is that B4B welcomes Rob Johnson's comments and opinion. He may be way way way over the top. But we don't mind. We just would hope that he would have the courage of his convictions to face off with us on our site rather than penning a hit piece based on what one of our commenters said.

Who do you support, Rob? If it's Fred!, well, good luck. Make your case.

Blogs 4 Brownback is documenting the latest Brownback buzz!

complained. Flogging the dead horse here is the over the top part, IMO.

I do happen to agree with Rob's basic contention that the B4B poster is a jerk.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

I have read your comments here long enough, mbecker, to know that you are fair. It is a common tactic of critics of any given wesbsite to conflate the views of commenters with those of the poster. This is obviously unfair. Especially when the site in question has an open no-censor comment policy.

Criticism, when it is proffered should be aimed squarely at the poster and not the commenters, if the goal is to criticize the website. I try to have discourse with the commenters as much as possible. But I will often let the commenter's opinion stand.

This does not mean that I or any other front page poster agrees with the comments. That is a given. I think everybody knows this.

Rob is pretending that he doesn't for some reason. What that reason is, I will not bother to speculate.

Caveat emptor and let the reader judge for himself. We trust our readers to make up their own minds. That is our policy. I happen to believe that this is a good one. I think our readers do too.

Blogs 4 Brownback is documenting the latest Brownback buzz!

I intimated that you or B4B approved of the comment in question. Just to be clear, as far as I'm concerned, and I don't read your blog, my only contact has been through this particular thread at RS, the moderators at B4B have clean hands given your posting policy.

I will also note that I don't like your no-ban policy and you should feel free to totally ignore my dislike of it since it's your blog not mine. I am personally well aware that without constraints, people will go over-the-top at the drop of a hat. I have, that's how I know. Thankfully, I've been here long enough that the mods have given me, on a couple of occasions, more grace than I deserved. But if it wasn't for the moderators and the banning policy, I don't think RS would be the quality site that it is.

All that said, my only real "contribution" to this particular blog is that I don't think it belongs here. Rob is complaining about a commenter at another blog (yours) for posting behavior that would get him banned here. It's just a disconnect for me. I understand why he doesn't like the comment, I don't like it either. If, however, I was planning on complaining about him, I would do it at B4B, not here.

I hope I cleared all that up. I'm confused now. Which way is home????
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

We at B4B are proud to have never ever deleted a comment of those who agree with us using hyperbole or those who disagree vehemently with us. It is a point of pride that we value free speech so much that anything goes.

We will, however, edit out potty language so that our site remains a family friendly one. That is another point of pride.

And we do delete the torrent of spam that comes our way. We refuse to promote porn and erectile dysfunction medication on our website. That's only common sense.

If you, dear sir, have a problem with anything said on B4B, sack up and respond in our comment threads. Do not attack us from afar and say "Hey look what Brownback supporters are saying! Aren't they mean? Aren't they nasty?"

Have the courage of your convictions and dive in. I promise we won't censor you, unless you can't make your point without cursing a blue streak. Leave that to the Sad-Sacks at Daily Kos.

Blogs 4 Brownback is documenting the latest Brownback buzz!

You've won my respect.

More political sites need to allow such a free discourse.
I like your style, delete the profanity but allow diverging opinions without the constant threat of banning.
I'll be visiting tonight.

Thank you, CarolinaMan. We don't get a lot of respect from many our commenters, and frankly, we don't care. There's two things I believe in: getting the best conservative candidate the GOP nomination and FREE SPEECH. Well, there's many more things. But those are two. We welcome any and all RedStaters. We welcome anyone who wants to speak their mind.

That's what's great about this country. That's what's great about true Americans. We're all in this together. And as far as the nomination: may the best man win.

Blogs 4 Brownback is documenting the latest Brownback buzz!

We have what's called a Nev-R-Ban policy. As of February 2007, exactly 0 commenters have been banned. We may insult you or disagree with you using hyperbole and angry rhetoric, but you are free to do the same. You will never be banned from B4B. Well, never say never, but it hasn't happened yet.

All are welcome. JOIN US.

Blogs 4 Brownback is documenting the latest Brownback buzz!

So what character from Harry Potter is Senator Brownback going to dress up for during tomorrow's Harry Potter book release party's?

I can really see him as a Malfoy.

_______________________________
None of the Above !

the post reads:
A question for FredHeads and non-FredHeads alike: would you trust a liar in the White House?

comment #1 reads:
It’s plain to anybody who has eyes that Fred Thompson has no more respect for life than Obama or the Clinton-mafia. The fact that he has taken tainted money in return for promoting the culture of death means that Thompson has already secured his place in Hell. Once again, only Senator Brownback has remained consistently principled on this most important of American issues: The right to life itself.

comment #3 reads:
Who would work for this guy, much less vote for him? At a time when we need clarity and transparency, no one wants this liar, Thompson.

comment #15 reads:
Our only chance to win handidly in 2008 is to support a True Christian. That’s why I support Brownback, and as a second choice Huckabee. I’m done with pandering. I’m done with giving my heart and soul to a bunch of guys who want nothing but tax cuts, and tell us that hey can’t do anything about halting abortion and the teaching of secularism in our schools. Fred’s a pandering RINO. A Hollywood immoral liberal dressed up in jeans and a flannel shirt driving a rented pickup truck pretending to be a true American. I won’t support him, ever.

In addition, there is no criticism of the comment by the author of the post.

Finally, other posts in the site, and comments to those posts, are not much better.

Given the totality of the above, I just don't think it is plausible that this comment was from another campaign.

I'd be interested to hear what Psycheout thinks of your hypothesis though.

____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

I'm trying to have a conversation with Mark Kilmer. He posited that the offensive comment was made by an opposing campaign as an attempt to embarrass Brownback. I found his suggestion interesting, and I responded with evidence that I believe points otherwise.

In the future, please pause to consider whether your comment is relevant to the discussion at hand before posting. Thanks.

This may be private property, but it is still an open forum to subscribers. Do not presume to dictate how your fellow participants may employ it.

Unlike you, I can enforce this.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Moe Lane,

Please allow me to make the same REQUEST of you, then: in the future, please post relevant comments.

In case you missed it, the topic is whether the offensive comment was likely offered by an opposing campaign.

Care to discuss?

A site moderator has swooped in to tell you to knock off trying to tell other people what they can and can't post here. We reserve that particular right to site moderators, which you are not. This is not a topic for discussion.

Was that sufficiently clear?

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

but I don't think I told anyone what he or she could and couldn't post. I simply requested relevancy to the discussion thread.

I thought - was obvious. So much for my thought processes. The relevancy is this: you seem to have a real problem with posting at B4B. I would also guess (oops, thinking again) that you would have a problem with their posting policy where no one gets banned since people are obviously posting what I would conclude to be outrageous stuff. (I also haven't read the whole blog or anything beyond the relevant link)

Since your problem seems to be with "them" and "their" blog, and nothing posted on Red State per se, I would offer that the more appropriate place for you to vent your outrage (not a criticism) would be at the B4B blog, not here. Especially since, again I'm guessing, the guy who posted the original quote in question wouldn't likely last here more than about one post before he experienced the fine wrist snap of Moe launching a dull, rusty harpoon.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

but I just don't see how those comments--which are perfectly fine comments to make, mind you--are relevant to the inquiry Mark Kilmer and I were discussing. He said he thought the comments were offered by a faux-Brownback supporter. I disagreed. What do you think?

If you are tempted to repost what you just said, a new comment thread would be appropriate, I think. But, as Moe Lane has so graciously pointed out, I cannot enforce my request. So . . . respond away, wherever you think best.

I don't know. I have no way of knowing. Frankly, I don't care. The comments are not related to any issue of any import. Heck, I don't even know who you are or why you're flogging this silliness here.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

Rob,

Took me a while to read through your previous posts here to find the common RomneyBot ploy and comments, but very clever very clever indeed on this latest move.

Find some cruddy postings on a no readership pro Brownback web site, post them here expressing great outrage, bold them so they get read. Then stand back and proclaim the outrage of it all these when they are the sort of comments (but not so direct) that RomenyBots post here all the time.

Very clever, why in pool guess you'd call that a two banker!

Guess it's a good thing that the sort of two or three bankers than you are employing here are something that the RS editors frown on or I'd have to go into the same mode as you. Why I'd venture to guess that it would not be hard to find some anti LDS sort of postings from some of the obscure and obscene web sites that bashes his faith. I could post them as pointing out the level of religious intolerance of folks. Doing that would still be wrong, it would still get a nasty 'poon from the editors and more importantly, it would be wrong.

How about you RomneyBots try keeping the dialog to the issues, or hair, or what Mitt would do about the issues confronting this country. Might make good reading.

_______________________________
None of the Above !

What do you think? The offending comment was made by a faux-Brownback supporter, or no?

That's the relevant question in this line of comments.

Rob

It's an old political trick. Find something outrageous, post it as an example of what is terrible, all while weeping crocodile tears. Maybe not a two banker, but a slam by proxies.

One other small question, are you part of the mymanmit crew?

_______________________________
None of the Above !

I'll respond to your questions on a new thread.

Before you leave this one, though, you might take a moment and answer, yes or no, the offensive comment was likely offered by a faux-Brownback supporter.

Rob

I'd guess it's either your garden variety Liberal Loon, or some sort of black art posting from someone who is very passionate about their guy and is seeking to stir the pot a bit...I think you call that 'bot behavior.

Oh, before you ask, if the shoe fits.

_______________________________
None of the Above !

If I understand you correctly, you agree with me that the comment was offered by a true-blue Brownbacker. Don't bother responding unless I misunderstood you.

Still waiting for you to confirm your association with mymanmit and crew.

Need that calibration point to make sure that I have my future replies crafted in such a way that you can understand them.

_______________________________
None of the Above !

I await your reply.

You are paranoid, Rob. But you are free to express your views here and at B4B, so long as you don't tell others what they can and cannot say. That is a decision for the moderators of the websites in question.

Ask yourself if you have sought out other commenters who have made comments about other Presidential candidates. If not, why not? At B4B our mission is clear. Our comment policy is clear. Your agenda is not, but it would be interesting to find out what exactly it is.

The one thing I love about Red State is that Red State sorts its own issues out.

We at B4B are glad that you chose to spotlight our blog. We welcome others to take part in our conversations (without being censored) and to make up their own minds.

We hope the next time we are mentioned on Red State, we will have a more objective author to bring to other Red Staters what our message is. Isolated comments that further an agenda can be found on any site with an open comment policy.

I know Red State is generally above this kind of smear. That's why I read Red State frequently. It's a great forum for conservative thought. So is B4B. I hope you participate, next time you read us, Rob, rather than slandering us.

Thank you,
Psycheout

Blogs 4 Brownback is documenting the latest Brownback buzz!

I'd love for you to point me to an instance (preferably, instances) where you have been critical of a commenter for over-the-top vitriol. Can you do that please?

Poppycock.

We let our commenters say anything they want. I take our commenters at their word. If anyone does not, they are free to take issue with what has been said. That's what makes America great. That's what makes B4B great. And interesting.

We even let Brownback critics savage the great Senator from Kansas. Because we believe that the truth will out.

When it comes to free speech, we agree with the founders.

Blogs 4 Brownback is documenting the latest Brownback buzz!

Question: When it comes to free speech, do you agree with the ideas expressed by commenter #6 of your blog?

Can you show me an instance where you have been critical of a commenter on your blog for the kind of over-the-top remarks most of us believe was displayed by the commenter I quoted above?

I'd like to believe that a website in favor of the "true Christian" in the race would take the time to criticize commenters who call opposing candidates' wives "Vegas streetwalkers" and "sluts."

You're an idiot, right? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but you are a complete and total moron, aren't you?

I agree with the commenter's right to express her views in the way she she sees fit. My not responding to her comment is indicative of nothing. Fool.

For the record, I know nothing about Fred Thompson's wife. Nothing. Am I not a good blogger because I know nothing about an undeclared candidate's wife? You be the judge. And I will ignore your judgement because it doesn't matter.

I'm not a blogger on B4B so that I can verify, dispute or agree with every single comment that might put a bee in some idiot's bonnet. Frankly, I don't care.

And for the record, I doubt that Fred's wife was a "Vegas streetwalker" and have no reason to believe she is a "slut." But who the hell cares? Is anyone going to make a decision based on one commenter's opinion? I don't know. If you have a beef with the commenter in question, sack up and call her out on it. Don't be a scared little girl and go crying to Red State to validate your own inadequacies.

I've had it with this non-discussion. B4B should be judged based on the content put up by it's posters, not based on what any anonymous commenter might say.

Give me a break. Isn't anything more distressing to you happening in the world? Someone lost a dog in Toledo. Someone else said it deserved to die. What are you going to do about it, Rob?

And if you want to find an instance of me smacking down an idiot who said something stupid in our comment threads, kick back and do some reading. I've done it numerous times.

You're the muckraking journalist here. Do your own homework, twit.

This has got to be one of the most idiotic diaries I've ever seen on a site ever. But then, I don't bother to read Daily Kos.

Blogs 4 Brownback is documenting the latest Brownback buzz!

you have never criticized commenters on your blog for over-the-top vitriol. That's remarkable given the comment quoted above.

Rob,

First, the pejorative 'Bot has come into wide use here on RS for those of us who find the almost breathless puffery, flattery and outright adulation for Mitt Romney a bit tiresome. Let me get close to that line here on RS but not cross over it; I have some suspicion, some nagging feeling that the fervor exhibited by some 'Bots is based on their membership in the Church of Latter Day Saints and it almost takes on a mission zeal at times. That sort of bugs me as 'Bots don't talk about Mit's record of accomplishment, or his skill or his position on issues, it's something else they are going on about and it's usually not real nice.

I checked a sample of your past postings, and yours were prime 'Bot postings which don't seek to talk about issues, what your guy will do about them, instead it was 'bots talking down other candidates and point out personal flaws instead of flaws on how they see issues compared to your guy.

Your contribution to the discussion in this thread brings no discussion of the real issues confronting this country. No my guy Mitt thinks we should have this or that program or have the Federal government out or in with this aspect of my life. You post stuff as a link to another web site where the content of those very postings would not be acceptable here. Let me say that again, those sorts of postings would not be acceptable here on RS, so why are you bringing them in via a side door. What's your motive, what's the point. Are you trying to introduce stuff to make a point or using those comments as a means to get in some whacks at another camp?

Is the point you are making that some of Brownback's supporters are hard core social conservatives....DUH!

Is the point you are making is that some people don't like hard core religious conservatives? Again DUH and by the way, Senator Brownback and Mike Huckabee make no apologies for their strong faith, none is needed none is desired. I've met very few Christians who are ashamed of their faith.

Let's go to your last point about negativity shall we.

Mitt Romney is not catching on right now. I don't know why, he's a smart, good looking, good speaking, great family guy and tons of money. His religion is an elephant in the room for a lot of folks, too bad for them, it's not for most people that I know or me. Maybe it's the too slick, too packaged, too clever by half style combined with the head fakes Mitt throws on some of the social issues. Look at Rudy, he finally figured out that people would rather be told that he disagrees with them on an issue that pretend or dodge his past.

Team Mitt is playing rough for sure, and when you decry the rough play of others, you need to take a hard look at what your own guy and his team is doing before crying about that, by the way, denial is not a river in Egypt.

Maybe park the fervor at the door next time, and don't forget to breathe and laugh occasionally.

_______________________________
None of the Above !

Here I was hoping that you would address (at least attempt to) the merits of my post, which, by the way, your first post did so well. Are there two SteveLAs?

Fear not, Rob, RomneyBots are everywhere. Except maybe here: Dogs Against Romney. And with that, I bid you goodnight.

Blogs 4 Brownback is documenting the latest Brownback buzz!

Jesus Christ, Rob. I was critical of Mitt-amorphasis when it first came out as a press release. But you want to focus on some commenter on B4B and smear the whole site. Give it up, man. This is getting really ridiculous.

Objectivity meet Rob Johnson, Rob meet Objectivity. Oh, you've never met? Well why not have a little chat? It would be about time. And Rob has so much to learn from you.

G-d give me strength.

Blogs 4 Brownback is documenting the latest Brownback buzz!

Oh man, you're a Romneybot? Why do I waste my time with these automatons?

I'd like to respond to some of your comments and questions, but I'd like to lay some groundwork first.

Great. Lay down the law, MittHead. Goodbye.

Blogs 4 Brownback is documenting the latest Brownback buzz!

I know that you feel provoked and everything, and I for one would be ecstatic to see this entire conversation ported over to your blog (where it frankly belongs); but we frown on one poster playing calling-out games on another*. Play nice.

Moe

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

*We're also officially capricious and espouse the Life Is Not Fair policy.

I apologize.

Blogs 4 Brownback is documenting the latest Brownback buzz!

He sucks at it, too, but the man was here first and I imagine that he's got to eat.

Now shoo.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!