Redstate

is it this one?
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4.62, 0.51

n/t

That was the speech he gave, but it does not include the Q&A after the speech where he made the "learn Spanish" comment.

Robert L. Mayo
Dream no small dreams for they have no power to move the hearts of men.
- Goethe

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4.62, 0.51

Obama wants you to learn english!
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4.62, 0.51

Clicking on the link, YouTube (quite rudely) says "The URL contained a malformed video ID."
Robert L. Mayo
Dream no small dreams for they have no power to move the hearts of men.
- Goethe

"obama speak spanish"
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4.62, 0.51

I am NOT wasting 21 minutes of MY time listening to him talk

The Minority Report

You can skip to the end to see the Q&A, but it was edited out of that copy
Robert L. Mayo
Dream no small dreams for they have no power to move the hearts of men.
- Goethe

by the savior himself. It only takes 21 minutes of hearing him talk to save your soul for eternity, surely that cannot be a waste of time! Come on? Though I am not sure exactly what type of saving is to occur...I just know you are saved all the same!
MelZ

He has kind of a point, but he comes off as *fake shock* elitist. But as Obama says, "Get over it".

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Robert L. Mayo
Dream no small dreams for they have no power to move the hearts of men.
- Goethe

I think the "don't worry about they learning English" and the "you should be concerned about your kids not being bi-lingual" are okay statements, but when he says "you should make sure your kid learns Spanish" he sounds like an elitist.

I'd say write this off as a misspeak, as we have more solid things to hit him on.

I just don't think many people will care if they hear the full clip and I disagree with taking things out of context to make a point.

*Many people [that don't already see Obama as a shmuck]. However, I did add the YouTube vid to StumbleUpon. :D

But I guess I agree. If this is an "out-of-context" thing, we should probably step lightly.

--
We would also like to know your advice for somebody like my daughter, who's going to graduate in two years, advice that you would give a young person.

SEC. RUMSFELD: Advice for a young person. Study history.

want the invasion. Remember amnesty debate?

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." - The Chief Justice

I can picture him how at Brandeburg Gate stepping up to the mic and saying..............................

Merci beaucoup

Extreme taxation, excessive controls, oppressive government competition with business … frustrated minorities and forgotten Americans are not the products of free enterprise.Ronald Reagan

Si, si puede!

If I could master the English language, then maybe I could move on to another one. Ours is tough enough.

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is discussed here. Moe found that one.

absentee
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For those that just want the info without clicking:

After a little Googling I found that Obama told The Hill that in addition to Indonesian, he speaks "a little Spanish."

I can speak a little Spanish too, "dos cervesa por favor" and can ask where the bathroom is, though I can't type it. Plus I know some curse words.... I didn't know there was an Indonesian language though.

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Just sayin.

"If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country."

chiefly consisted of stoically submitting to five years of torture.

Can you provide us some links to where McCain says anything along the lines of 'the problem isn't immigrants not learning English, its your kids not learning Spanish'?

And no, his previous support for "comprehensive immigration reform" does not equal the above statement.

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It's not previous it's current...see his speech to LULAC yesterday. Read the reports on his closed door pander session to LaRAZA a couple weeks ago!

How does..."OK...I'll buid the God D*** fence sound?

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.--Ronald Wilson Reagan

I must commend you, that was a nice attempt at a dodge. But you COMPLETELY ignored the first half of my post. Still waiting for your link(s).

Well, regarding people who speak spanish, he did say this in 1998.

“Spanish was spoken in Arizona when it was carved from the wilderness, and I am proud that it is spoken there today. People should not have to abandon the language of their birth to learn the language of their future. They should use and treasure both.”

That was his response to teaching spanish in schools so that kids who know english will also know spanish.

Of course, there is also this:

McCain stood in the middle of the GOP cloakroom and yelled at several of his Senate colleagues because they deigned to have a vote — to have a vote — on Inhofe’s “English As the National Language” amendment to the 2006 immigration bill. He accused conservatives of being “divisive” and “insulting” Latinos for suggesting that immigrants ought to learn this language. He was nasty and unhinged. About 10 staffers witnessed this. He delighted in telling the conservative senators there that they were destroying the party with these efforts. This is what Santorum is talking about. He had antipathy for social and cultural conservatives’ efforts.

He seems much more resistant to people learing English than he is to people learning Spanish.

No, I don't see any quote from McCain saying "We should learn Spanish instead of forcing them to learn English"

I do see him saying something along the lines of "We should all learn Spanish" and "How DARE you require them to learn English?!"

I'm sure there is a difference there somewhere.

In your haste to condemn Obama for the stupidity that he puts forth, don't be so quite to whitewash McCain's record.

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Dependence is Slavery.

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"so quick"

not "so quite"

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
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Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

"I do see him saying something along the lines of "We should all learn Spanish" "

I read that more like "We do not have to abandon Spanish to learn English."

"and "How DARE you require them to learn English?!" "

Hmm, an anonymously sourced hit piece during the presidential primary season... Pardon me if I am a bit skeptical about this one.

Uh... anonymous? No, your issue is that you thought you had ace pegged. But, it turns out, he was right and you were wrong.

The first link is by a guy who has written a few books on fighting illegal immigration. He has a few dubious connections in his past to groups that may be racist, so I don't really like to refer to him often. The article was written in 2000. February of 2000. I think that is a touch early for it to be a 2008 hit piece on McCain.

However, since it is no secret that McCain supports americans learning spanish as a bilingual education plan, I think your issue is with the second quote in which he ranted about a section in an immigration bill requiring English as the official language.

The second link is to a reprint of a blogpiece from The Corner at national review. If you want to distrust The Corner because it disagrees with your opinion, that's fine I guess.... but it is a bit silly. It is also no secret that McCain opposed English as the official language, and has for a long time.

I mean, if you want to call the National Review an anonymous source so that you can ignore what it has reported... I guess you're free to do that.

What else are you willing to ignore so as to not have to reexamine your perceptions of Senator McCain?

That you don't want to hear it has nothing to do with me, nor ace.

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"I think that is a touch early for it to be a 2008 hit piece on McCain."

I didn't call the first part of your post a '2008 hit piece on McCain.' Notice how I divided your quotes and my responses. The first response was to the first quote, and the second response was to the second quote.

"I mean, if you want to call the National Review an anonymous source so that you can ignore what it has reported... I guess you're free to do that."

From the linked story:

"A Senate source whom I trust..."

So, what is the name of his source? Is it anywhere in the blog post? No?

This is a second-hand account using an anonymous source. Could this story be true? Sure, but this is hardly definitive proof.

I did not at any time call the National Review an anonymous source. I am skeptical about this story because IMO it is basically uncorroborated second-hand innuendo. AFAIK, this episode wasn't recorded like Obama's idiocy.

P.S. Statements along the lines of "Ramesh is a good guy, he would NEVER lie about something like this" do not constitute evidence.

Very true, it was not printed on the front page of the New York Times.

However, we do know that Senator McCain has had a long standing opposition to English being the Primary Language.

He has often talked about it.

Do you deny that while he pushes for the American People to learn Spanish, he does not push for immigrants to learn English?

I do believe that was the original charge issued by ace, which you demanded he prove.

Now that I have, you try to cast doubt on the sources rather than deal with the issue.

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[quote]Do you deny that while he pushes for the American People to learn Spanish, he does not push for immigrants to learn English?[/quote]

From the quote that you initially provided, it's clear that he expected them to learn English (if you disagree, what other language he could possibly be referring to when he mentions 'their future language'. Is that Spanish again?)

I'm guessing you say he does not push for immigrants to learn English based on his opposition to the 'English as the official language' bill.

AFAIK, Sen McCain has not authored or voted for a bill that mandates that the American people must learn Spanish, so I can deny that he pushes for the American People to learn Spanish, right?

But he has with his constant support of bilingual education in Arizona, where children learn english AND spanish in schools.

So he does support our children learning spanish, but fights against any requirements for people to learn english.

You're really just wrong on this, and if you want to keep digging yourself in a hole... I don't mind handing you bigger shovels.

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Political Compass
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It quoted Rick Santorum...I wouldn't call that an "anonymously sourced hit piece during the presidential primary season.

For someone who seems so cock sure of themselves you should think before you start typing!

Not that I'm not guilty of the same! :>)

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.--Ronald Wilson Reagan

No, that blog did NOT quote Rick Santorum.

And yet you still don't deal with it.

It is no secret that John McCain supports bilingual education, teaching our kids Spanish as well as English, but resists making English the primary language of this country, which would require that those who do not speak english would have to learn it.

Regardless of anything else, who said what when or how. You still have to deal with that.

and you don't.

You just sit back and try and discredit the National Review.

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"You just sit back and try and discredit the National Review."

That's nonsense. I merely expressed my doubts about this particular blog entry (and outlined reasons for my doubts as well).

I also pointed out where some members were misrepresenting this blog entry (among others, the alleged incident was treated as a verified event, it was claimed that this was not an anonymous source, and the quote was erroneously attributed to Sen Santorum.)

And you're still not able to admit that you are wrong about McCain and the language issue.

Here's a bigger shovel.

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"And you're still not able to admit that you are wrong about McCain and the language issue."

There's not much else to say in this little sub-thread, as you don't seem to be in this with an open mind.

It's interesting to see you basically raise the white flag in terms of defending that National Review innuendo (constantly repeating 'Nyah nyah you're wrong about McCain or outright ignoring the issues I have with the piece isn't cutting it).

You seem to believe that McCain makes children learn Spanish in school. As far as I can tell, that is false. I've skimmed through the Arizona Administrative Code and the only language requirement for High School graduation is ENGLISH (please correct me if I am wrong regarding this!). I'm strongly against any K thru 12 parallel Spanish/Chinese/whatever only classrooms but Arizona specifically has an English requirement in their code. Now, if the state of Arizona is ignoring this and rubberstamping kids with no English skills through the system, that is a disgrace, but that is not on Sen. McCain's shoulders.

Uh, this started by you demanding evidence that McCain supported us learning spanish, but opposed making immigrants learn english. If anyone is being closed-minded... it is you.

I have given that evidence and rather than deal with it, you attack the sources. You avoided the actual argument and still do.

You're still dodging the issue. You STILL are digging yet a bigger hole for yourself.

Here's a bigger shovel.

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This is my last reply to this sub-thread, as we are basically talking past each other at this point.

Let's scroll up and see what I initially asked for:
"Can you provide us some links to where McCain says anything along the lines of 'the problem isn't immigrants not learning English, its your kids not learning Spanish'?"

Your response? Two sources: One from 1998 and an alleged event that took place in 2006. The alleged 2006 event consists solely of an anonymous tipster claiming this happened... and that's it. I know for a fact that if the NYTimes, DKos, or HuffPost printed those exact same words, RS would shred that story to pieces, but apparently I am supposed to uncritically believe every single word because it came from NRO (because they were strictly non-partisan during the primary season and/or couldn't possibly be manipulated into posting a hit piece... riiight...)

Feel free to claim victory or talk about shovels.

Well, if this is really your last statement here, then let me congratulate you on not actually ever dealing with the context of the argument, but just trying to trash any sources that don't agree with you, while wholly ignoring anything that might have actually been said or done.

Here is a bigger shovel.

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Dependence is Slavery.

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You set up a straw man by demanding that I back up something I never said...McCain opposes making English the official language of the United States. That's the nub of Obama's comments and that's why I said the Republican Party won't make an issue out of this because I believe McCain agrees with his sentiment.

I commented elsewhere in this post that everyone is ignoring the straw man that Obama set up when he said that those who support making English the official language of this country supported "English Only"...I can't think of an instance where McCain has used that arguement but it's been made by people who are supporting his obsessive campaign to legalize millions of illegal immigrants

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.--Ronald Wilson Reagan

Lance, this is a misrepresentation that would do a Democrat proud.

"It is no secret that John McCain supports bilingual education, teaching our kids Spanish as well as English, but resists making English the primary language of this country, which would require that those who do not speak english would have to learn it."

I don't know McCain's position NOW on bilingual education, or even if he knows what it is, but Arizona no longer uses what used to be called bilingual education. Classes are taught in English. Even when it was in place, bilingual education was used to teach non-English speakers many subjects, not to teach Spanish to English-speakers.

English is already the "primary" language of the country, so he could hardly resist that. He has NOT backed any Official English bills, however. Again, I'm not sure he has paid enough attention to them to understand their details. Not a positive for him in my book, but quite a different issue than your assertion. But Official English would NOT require anybody to learn English, anyway. It would simply protect those people who ONLY speak English from discrimination, and it would require almost all official Government documents to be printed in English, preventing any requirement that they be printed in other languages unless appropriate for their purpose.

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

Nothing that I wrote above should be taken to mean that I agree with McCain on anything he has to say about illegal immigration, or foreign language politics for that matter.

For some reason, he's stuck on-----the wrong side of those issues. And I'm not convinced his statements on the "G-d fence" even indicate a "grudgingly acquiescent flip-flop." It may be more of the"cynical pandering" kind, at least the best that McCain can muster.

He's just still better than Barack would be.

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

He's just still better than Barack would be.

Yes, and that hasn't been the question raised by any.

However, when determining a good Republican, I don't use a radical Democrat as the standard of judgement.

For McCain, we have had to in order to justify voting for him.

That, more than anything else, scares me.

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oops. forgot a tag

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Dependence is Slavery.

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Heh. Nice.

English is already the "primary" language of the country, so he could hardly resist that. He has NOT backed any Official English bills, however. Again, I'm not sure he has paid enough attention to them to understand their details. Not a positive for him in my book, but quite a different issue than your assertion.

Oh, he understands and pays attention to him. It isn't that he's not backed them... he's opposed them! If he was silent on it, one could MAYBE claim that he just didn't understand them.

But he opposes them. So much so that La Raza awarded him for it.

Don't try and whitewash this issue. He opposes English as the Official Language.

But Official English would NOT require anybody to learn English, anyway. It would simply protect those people who ONLY speak English from discrimination, and it would require almost all official Government documents to be printed in English, preventing any requirement that they be printed in other languages unless appropriate for their purpose.

Well, then there'd be no reason to oppose such a measure, would there?

Rather than condemn me and what I have had to say, ask why Senator McCain did oppose such a thing.

Ask why he supported teaching our kids spanish, but opposed making English our official language.

Ask why he regularly made statements against English as the Official Language that were regurgitations of the left wing talking points (He made statements saying that he appreciates and loves the spanish (or indian in some speeches) language that has its roots in Arizona and fully supports their ability to continue to speak that language.... as if having to learn English were going to take that away.)

This is just an issue where McCain is wrong. Rather than press McCain on it, people who bring up the issue are the object of scorn.

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Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

included Santorum

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.--Ronald Wilson Reagan

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.--Ronald Wilson Reagan

Thanks Boss.

Of course, they didn't believe the information, or dealt with it at all, just attacked the source.

But, it isn't mine to convince, just provide.

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I've been busy fixing my home office network and haven't had time to source what I said and I was popping off when I said it...thanks for covering it..

I may look up other quotes or not to add support for yours but I think you covered it quite nicely!

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.--Ronald Wilson Reagan

How does..."OK...I'll buid the God D*** fence sound?

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.--Ronald Wilson Reagan

“.....women and minorities hardest hit”

h/t to Ayn Rand...

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...But Americans should "learn foreign languages as a way to succeed in this global economy"....how does that fence feel all jammed up in your butt crack?

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

English is the global economy lingua franca but if you can speak a second or third language, you will have an advantage over those that can speak only one.

How about if we focus on getting everyone here in the United States to speak English well, THEN focus on getting people to learn other languages?

Seems silly to have kids speak 2 or 3 languages when they haven't got a handle on English yet.

yes yes, use the standard "But you learn english better if you learn other languages at the same time!" SuperFact, but it is silly to spend government money on teaching foreign languages when we're not even doing a great job of teaching English.

We can't even get English to become our primary language. For some reason, it is declared racist to suggest that people learn english.

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Our schools aren't doing a good job of teaching English to our kids and our society isn't doing a good job of fostering proper English either. I am constantly surprised by how poorly kids speak and write English. Even recent college graduates I work with are horrible writers.

However, kids all over the world are able to learn their native tongue plus English and occassionally a third or fourth language. Those kids are not inherently smarter than our kids. The problem is with expectations. Our kids are barely expected to learn English. Add on the parochial attitudes of many Americans who insist that English is the only language worth speaking and you have a nation of people who can only speak one language and poorly at that.

...but rather the FACT that the public education system has to teach to the lowest common denominator which inherently drags down all of the students to the level of the dumbest kid in class....but yeah your probably right it's those xenophobes who believe in LANGUAGE BORDERS & CULTURE that are to blame...come on shoofly that was a veiled attack on American culture if I have ever seen one.

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

If I meant xenophopia, I would have written that. We Americans are parochial about many things. We tend to believe, rightly in many cases, that our way is the best way. So, most Americans believe that there is no need to learn any other language besides English.

Here are the 3 accepted definitions from Meriam Webster

1 : of or relating to a church parish
2 : of or relating to a parish as a unit of local government
3 : confined or restricted as if within the borders of a parish : limited in range or scope (as to a narrow area or region)

Did you mean we are to wrapped up in church?

Did you mean we are too focused on local gov't?

Did you mean we focus to much on what is going on within our borders?

Sorry but I am not a fan of multi-culturalism...from what I have seen in places like Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, and All of Europe it doesn't work and it ends up being a net drain on the gov't budget that ends up in higher taxes on the parochial people of any country.

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

I am not advocating that we add Spanish or any other language as an "official" language.

parochial, provincial, plebeian, pedestrian, and philistine.

I am proud to have been called, all of the above.

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

to some extent. I am from Chicago and you cannot convince me that there is a better place on earth. We have the best pizza, the best hotdogs and the best baseball team not to win a World Series in the last 100 years.

By the way, you listed 4 "P" words above.

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

discuss how our kids are not learning math! :-)

But you're willing to accept the incremental steps towards that end? Or are you just a fence sitter on every issue?

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

almost anywhere in the World using only English. I speak passable Spanish and understand conversational Mexican Spanish quite well. The only thing you need it for in Mexifornia or Mexico itself is to know when you're being insulted or cussed at. Why bother?

To the other poster's point, few younger Anglos can speak or, especially, write standard English. That's the real problem; we cannot even teach it to native English speakers. The schools have almost totally eliminated any oral presentations or question and answer sessions and discussions ostensibly because they damaged the self-esteem of the less articulate. Consequently, kids come out of high school with no skill whatsoever in speaking in complete sentences in standard English unless they got it from home, church, or some extracurricular activity.

In Vino Veritas

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

KIIIILL! KIIIIILL! KIIIIILL!

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

We hear it on the radio here in St. Louis every year on Thanksgiving. I'm not really sure how or why that tradition started. I even bought the CD so I could listen to the song more often.

The point isn't whether we should learn another language...of course it would be better if we learn other languages...but you said it yourself with this one phrase:

most Americans believe that there is no need to learn any other language besides English.

If I never leave this country...why would I HAVE to learn any other language...the problem we are facing is that we're being forced to learn Spanish because those coming here refuse to speak thew language of America which is English! If I never leave this country....why am I expected to be able to speak to those coming here in their native tongue...This is my contry...if you come here...speak the language...if I go to Spain, France, Mexico, Japan, China, Russia or anywhere else to live I'll learn their language.

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.--Ronald Wilson Reagan

he prefaced his quote by saying that those who want English recognized as an official language want "English Only"...that's the straw man and everything he said proceeded from that false characterization.

We don't want English only and never have...but we want the primary language that has been spoken in this nation for 230+ years to remain that way.

Bottom line...I shouldn't have to wait for a computer to tell me that if I want to continue in English to please press one....or the alternative listen to a string of words in Spanish ending in Dos

If you're going to come to this country...speak the language...we don't go to Mexico and demand that they all learn English to accommodate us...or we don't go to Paris and demand that everyone there speak to us in English...We get on the computer with our Rosetta Stone and we work on being able to order our latte and we go about enjoying the sites.

One other thing...if any of you doubt that this whole thing is getting out of control...come to San Antonio and try to get a blue collar job if you can't speak Spanish....or try to get hired ot promoted into positions of management without being able to speak it!

Good luck if you try it!

Ohh...and stock up on groceries and fill your savings account before you try!

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.--Ronald Wilson Reagan

I don't know if things have changed or not but when i went to HS I had to choose a second language as an elective. I grew up in AZ so I chose Spanish....but that doesn't even matter...just because we make kids learn a language doesn't mean they will retain those language skills beyond HS. Our culture does not require us to speak a second language on a daily, weekly or even monthly basis, with that being the case most people who have learned a second language will not retain it because it isn't used. I also used to be able to speak Russian, Serbo-Croat and German....but I got out of the military and haven't had to use it since....the only things I remember is how to get beer and women...but then again what else do you really need to be able to say in any foreign language....;^)

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

That sounds like a class most of our boys would happily take. :-)

"...most people who have learned a second language will not retain it because it isn't used."

I'd like to see a Republican Indonesian-American mole ask Obama a question in Indonesian at one of his Q&A sessions. Let's find out what a cunning linguist Obama really is.

by age 4. However, for Obama to point fingers at parents and say that we are the problem on this subject is a joke. Unless our school system is willing to teach 4 year olds second languages, how, please tell me are parents going to make this happen... if they don't have that disposable income?

This is yet another issue that school choice could display significant positive externalities.

FWIW- I don't think our public school system is up to this task.

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Most school districts and schools are barely competent to teach the "3 R's". Our school district starts teaching kids Spanish as a required course in Kindergarten. They do a pretty good job and not only do my kids learn another language but they are exposed to Spanish and Latin American culture. It's a good program.

In my experience, they're pretty good at teaching those, its the reading, writing, and 'rithmetic they can't handld.

In Vino Veritas

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." - Ronald Reagan

They choose to teach abortion over reproduction big time in my experience.


Extreme taxation, excessive controls, oppressive government competition with business … frustrated minorities and forgotten Americans are not the products of free enterprise.Ronald Reagan

pretty well.

In Vino Veritas

Then blame Christians and Abstinence when the kids that they've taught HOW to have sex..... have sex.

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...If we would just teach better sexual positions maybe there would be less pregnant teenagers...I mean who ever heard of a kid getting knocked up by a "Hot Karl"

/snark off

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

If only we taught the principles of the kama sutra instead of American History and Civics, I bet teen pregnancies would go down then!

*smirks*

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Dependence is Slavery.

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Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

I don't know. I hear on TV that we ought to stay the course.

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

if it wasn't for sex ed? How do you explain a world population of 6 billion and the billions that came before us?

experimentation brought on by puberty I suppose...but now we teach pre-pubescent children how to use condoms and nullify any consequences brought on by their actions by offering safe and affordable abortions. Call me parochial but the old way seemed better.

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

and that there would be fewer teen pregnancies if we didnt't teach them about contraceptives? I'm not sure what the data is here but I disagree with you. I think, and I would guess you would agree, that parental involvement and parental guidance is the best way to prevent teen pregnancies but I also want my kids to know how to use contraceptives to prevent disease and pregnancies should they be like the 95% of Americans who have sex before marriage.

...you have no principle behind any of your positions and any argument is wasted on you because you can't manage to get off the damn fence. You talk about parental involvement but you also believe it is the place of the public education to teach sex ed to our kids. You are a walking contradiction and not worth the argument.

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

I'm just on the other side of the fence as you. I am not depending on the schools being my kids' only source of information. However, I do agree and approve of comprehensive sex ed in schools. I've never said or implied otherwise.

The SoCon position keeping kids in the dark about options that could save their lives or prevent an unwanted pregnancy is borderline dangerous. As an example, there was a recent bru-ha-ha about the new HPV vaccine. In Texas, SoCons protested state funding to vaccinate middle and high school kids not because they believed it was fiscally irresponsible but because they believed that the vaccine would lead more girls to have pre-marital sex because they no longer had to fear getting HPV! That's just a ridiculous argument.

You know, for someone who has claimed a few times to be a strong conservative, you sure side with the liberals quite a bit.

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

I am a liberal. Though, I do confess, proudly, to being a social libertarian. I'm not a SoCon and make no bones about wishing we didn't have to depend on them to win elections. So, I argue forcefully against SoCons and their positions but realize that we have much in common and that we need each other if we want to prevent Collectivists and their agenda from running the country.

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

You're right, disagreeing with me does not make you seem liberal.

But then, I didn't say that because you disagree with me, you seem liberal.

I said that for someone who claims to be a conservative, you sure agree with the liberals on alot of issues.

So, I didn't base such a statement on your disagreement with me, but upon your agreement with them.

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

Pfft... at least I know my sex ed!

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

working on it.

Need a wife first.

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

I know you are working and also going to school, but if you spent more time at sites like this instead of RedState, you could find yourself a nice wife.

Not a bad idea, but that's ok. I can't afford a girlfriend or wife right now. LOL

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

Great! A nice, long, single word at a time thread to close RedState 2.0.

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

I don't believe Liberals are evil or that Obama is a Muslim Marxist. I am definetly not hyper partisan and that shows on a site like this. Sometimes, Liberals in government are right about certain things and sometimes Conservatives in government are wrong. Unfortunately for both of us, I have to live with SoCons and you have to live with Libertarians and so-called RINOs. The alternative is letting the Dems win every major national office.

So, the self described Conservative, who also calls himself a libertarian, is saying that sometimes the liberals are right.

Which, of course, only furthers my point that, for someone claiming to be a conservative, you side with the liberals quite a bit.

Please don't tell me you were trying to refute my point with this post.

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

I am not a hyper partisan Republican. I prefer Republican candidates in most cases, agree with Republicans on most policy issues and want John McCain to win in November. However, if you had enough free time, you could go back to all the RedState polls that were run early this year and you would see that I had only McCain and Thompson as candidates I would be happy to support in November and had Obama as a very distant third.

I will never win "Who's a better Tom Delay Republican" with you. I would never want to.

I'm not a hyper partisan republican either.

If I were, don't you think I'd be daily defending McCain and ranting about people who don't like him?

Though, it kind of confuses me that with candidates like Duncan Hunter and Mitt Romney, you'd put Obama ahead of them.

How would you support voting for Obama while still maintaining the conservativism you say you have?

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

As governor of MA, he was my kind of Republican. His presto-change-o into a SoCon, turned my stomach and I could never fathom supporting him. In fact, if he is McCain's VP choice, I might just vote Bob Barr.

Right, that's fine, but you would support Obama over him?

if nothing else, THAT proves my point 100%.

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

Thank God we're not at that point and that we still have 3rd parties.

So, just to make sure we're clear....

You call yourself a conservative, even a libertarian, but you would support a marxist over a moderate.

Why, exactly, do you bother to call yourself a conservative or a libertarian?

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

I happen to believe that McCain is the one that will give us a sensible foreign policy and a more fiscally conservative economic policy. I have been and will continue to be a big opponent of the run away spending of this administration and the supposed Conservative majority we had most of this decade. So, I would rather have 4 years of Obama than 4 years or 8 years of some hack that spends like a Liberal but calls himself a Conservative.

Obama is not a Marxist, but he believes in universal healthcare, redistribution of wealth, overtaxation of 'the wealthy', government control of energy, etc. etc. etc.

He praises his father's work, which was the work of a Marxist, and is the most liberal senator we have today.

And you would prefer that to Mitt Romney, and you say you are a conservative.

I'm not picking a fight with you, just trying to understand the idea of a Conservative supporting Obama, because he doesn't want someone who will spend alot of money.

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

Obama is certainly a collectivist. He is a Liberal but he is not a Marxist. He does not advocate central control or government ownership of the means of production. That is what a Marxist is. When you throw around a term like that to describe an American Liberal, you water down the word.

Yeah... and what do you consider calls for government ownership of refineries?

Howard Dean is an American Liberal. Obama is a radical liberal, at least. A socialist, certainly. I use the term Marxist because he, himself, praises his father's marxist views.

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

I agree

... is that most, if not every argument you make starts from either a liberal premise or the apparent wholesale acceptance of a Lefty talking point.

And it's not just on social issues.

just agree with someone. So, there are tons of posts with which I agree completely but don't bother to chime in other than just "recommending".

Is that the working definition of a concern troll?

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

I certainly don't intend to be one.

the governor was getting a kickback from the drug company.

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

First you have no idea what the socon position is. The position is that it should not be the gov't doing the teaching it should be the parents. Public ed should not be used for social engineering. PERIOD. And you are a fence sitter as a whole because your positions are inconsistent with themselves.

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

So, you think kids would have less sex and that there would be fewer teen pregnancies if we didnt't teach them about contraceptives?

No, we think that kids would have less sex and that there would be fewer teen pregnancies if we stopped teaching 7th and 8th graders how to put on condoms and stopped teaching that having sex all willy nilly with people 'we love' (because 7th and 8th graders understand what it means to love someone, right? Pfft.) is fine and dandy and if we stopped pushing the idea that 6th graders ought to be on birth control by school mandate, without parental knowlege.

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

as it relates to contraception and disease prevention. I just survived getting three, two boys and a girl, through their teens in schools with very comprehensive and very liberal sex education. The oldest boy especially thought that using condoms was a joke; the girls didn't like them and neither did he - can't hold that against him actually. We had some tough sessions about how badly he really wanted to ruin his life. The girl averred that oral sex wasn't sex, that's a standard line, and I many times wished that just sending her to the nunnery was an option. My peers with kids the same ages had the same experiences; not only can you not dissuade them from having sex if they get the slightest opportunity, you can't persuade them to take the most minimal precations. Even with all the "education," it's still just "Vatican Roulette."

In Vino Veritas

I grew up in the "God said, I believe it, and that settles it" Rural South in the fifties and sixties where even "sex" was not a word you'd say out loud in polite or mixed company. I assure you that by the time I was eleven or twelve I very well knew what went where and why and by the time I was thirteen or fourteen it wasn't very hard to find girls who knew too. The only restraint we had was a righteous fear of parents and and general societal disapproval if you got some girl pregnant; shotgun wedding still had a literal meaning. That fear of parents is long gone as is any, repeat any, societal disapproval. The only argument you can make to a kid is economic. Child support laws are far more effective than sex education.

In Vino Veritas

Dead on, 100% accurate.

There are too few parents, and too many "baby's daddies" and "baby's mommies"

There are too few parents and too many "I want to be your best friend, not your mommy/daddy"

There are too few spankings of children and too much "it is time for a time out so you can analyze your behavior and make a rational decision as to what you will do differently next time"

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

Extreme taxation, excessive controls, oppressive government competition with business … frustrated minorities and forgotten Americans are not the products of free enterprise.Ronald Reagan

Ahh... so while you note that they don't have the resources to teach kids reading writing and math in English, you thing it is a good program to spend resources on teaching them spanish as early as kindergarten.

Ahh.

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

I do think it's a good idea and my school district has the resources available to fund these programs. Howevever, since most others do not, I think those limited funds are best spent on teaching kids proper English along with math, science, etc. However, if funds are available, language programs are a good idea.

It is nearly impossible to succeed in this country if you can't speak English.

Come to San Antonio and try to get a job if you can't speak Spanish

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.--Ronald Wilson Reagan

Or a McDonalds nearly everywhere.

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Dependence is Slavery.

Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.85

the only second language he is fluent in is Double-Talk.

Today I have read quite a few reports about his "learn Spanish" remarks. I guess it just took little time for people to notice. It's good to know I'm not crazy...despite what my girlfriend says.
Robert L. Mayo
Dream no small dreams for they have no power to move the hearts of men.
- Goethe