New Jersey Exodus
By Seraphinus Posted in Blogosphere — Comments (56) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
According to a poll released yesterday 49% of adults living in New Jersey would like to leave the state.
Poll participants cited high property taxes (28 percent), the cost of living (19 percent), state taxes (5 percent) and housing costs (6 percent) as the main reasons they want out. The poll also found that 51 percent of those who expressed a desire to leave planned to do so, with adults under the age of 50 making between $50,000 and $100,000 the most likely to flee.
It appears Garden State residents are getting exactly what they voted for. Perhaps they should have thought about high taxes when they voted for Jim McGreevy and Jon Corzine.
Hopefully disgruntled New Jerseyans will not move somewhere else and, "like a putrid fever", infect the next place with the liberalism they created and now want to escape.
-Seraphinus
A Constitution in Every Pocket
in The West, it's called Californication. They leave the high tax, high cost nanny state for for lower costs and taxes in another Western state and immediately start trying to put all the nanny state stuff they're addicted to in place. And unlike other vermin, you can't just shoot, shovel, and shut up. The Cops actually try, at least a little, to find out who shot them.
In Vino Veritas
The Marylanders brought their liberalism into Northern Virginia and are ruining the place. Over the last 7 years, Virginia has gone from GOP dominance to the brink of turning blue and having 2 Democratic senatoors for the first time since the demise of the Byrd Machine. Few of us in West Virginia would have ever thought we would vote for a Republican presidential candidate by an even wider margin than the mother ship.
--Jim
jimmullins.blogspot.com
West Virginia Citizens Defense League
Fred '08
Although I'd live in New Jersey if I could. I don't due to work reasons (darn you for moving the capital from Princeton!), not cost of living.
I make spit, and I live in Georgetown. I'm not the swiftest when it comes to personal finances.
The family is still there, though my dad is one of 11 kids, and only three are left in state. My mom's one of five, and all five still live in the great Garden State. So all the fleeing is confined to the one side of the family.
The state's finances are a complete mess. It's really a shame. For as much as people rip on it, Jersey is a phenomenal place to live and raise a family.
“I think we are the team to beat in the NL East -- finally.” - Jimmy "MVP" Rollins, 1/23/07
Out of 50 on the list of best places for business. Rhode Island is at the bottom and NY is just about them at 48.
The whole of the Northeast is feeling the crunch of high taxes, high real estate and vanishing jobs.
We should be able to hit the bottom three within a year or so!
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About the Author
Lord Vegas is a true American. some would call him a Mutt, but he prefers the term mixed breed. He has never voted for a Democrat, but then he's only 12!
It's possible to live very well in New Jersey, but you'd better make a lot of money: middle class in that state is an aggregate annual income of at least $150,000 a year, in my estimation. If you haven't got the bucks, don't try it.
My parents lived there for more than 2 decades and left because of the high taxes, the astronomical costs of things like auto insurance, and the continual ratrace of living at the near-nexus of the Garden State Parkway, the Turnpike, and Rt. 78 in Union.
The quality of life in Jersey has gotten worse, not better over the years. It's a shame. As hoyasaxa pointed out, it is possible to live pretty well in Jersey and raise a family -- especially if you are entrepreneurial or have a really good job.
Then you can afford to live in one of the wealthier upstate or downstate towns and you can be pretty comfortable. But take my advice and consider $150k/yr. as the bare minimum: the taxes and fees will take a massive chunk out of that and you'll be left with about what someone earning $60k a year in other areas of the country has left over at the end of the day.
It's a state for young people with a high tolerance for pain and a lot of go-getter energy.
You can see my old house. This is meant to indicate how congested certain areas of Jersey are. Click over to Map view to see the highways.
The stress level, the "ratrace quotient" and the cost of living are all commensurate with the congestion. To be fair, other areas of the state are much more sparsely populated, but when my Dad first moved there, he wanted to be "right in the middle" of things, near all the major highways, etc. Jersey was a fun place, but it wears on you. It's a high-maintenance place to live. If you're a go-getter, relatively young and entrepreneurial, however, you can make a lot of money.
The real trick in New Jersey is keeping that money and not losing your marbles in the process.
Pointing out to folks not from Jersey that this isn't a) a major city or b) that close to NYC.
Hudson, Essex, Union and Bergen counties are more congested than anyone not from the Northeast or maybe parts of the Chicago metro area or LA can really understand. There aren't really many cities. There are just a ton of people. I spent a few weeks living in Montclair with my aunt and uncle when I volunteered for Bret Schundler back in 2005. It's unreal to wake up and get on the Parkway every morning, head away from New York, and just sit in traffic.
I grew up in Medford, which is about 30 minutes east of Philadelphia. Much lower cost of living. I remember my dad saying when we bought our house when I was one, we sold our little home in Bloomfield for the same cost as we paid for our nice home with a yard in the development I grew up in.
“I think we are the team to beat in the NL East -- finally.” - Jimmy "MVP" Rollins, 1/23/07
in the union. It's almost all cities and suburbs, with only a few real rural areas. I was born in NJ and went to high school in Montvale, so my experiences are mainly with the nicer parts of the state, but I recall interviewing with a law firm in Newark, and it was basically in a Fortress Newark-type multi-office-tower building with an internal shopping center and transit links; it was designed...well, so that in case of a riot they could just close all the entrances to the building like a medieval castle under seige. Didn't make the best impression.
At least with Justice Alito, Jersey can finally make up for Brennan. But he has his work cut out for him.
Oh, and as to your signature line, hoyasaxa: screw you.
"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill
Doesn't Scalia give us some good graces?
As for the signature, I'm looking for a new one. I went to this, and all of a sudden, there was a lot of losing to the Rockies.
I'm leaning toward the quote I went with in my high school yearbook, which is (going from memory) "It doesn't do to dwell on dreams and forget to live."
I know you know who said it. I love the quote.
Anyhow, I'm not changing it till the Giants lose. Hopefully that lasts until November at least.
“I think we are the team to beat in the NL East -- finally.” - Jimmy "MVP" Rollins, 1/23/07
I lived in Saddlebrook, NJ in 1978 and worked in Paramus, about 10 miles away. It took me 15 minutes to get to work in the morning and approx 1 hour to come home on Rt 17. It didn't help that the street my office was on shared the on ramp with the Paramus park shopping mall. I got out of theer as soon as possible. I have only been back once about 10 years later and found that the traffic had gotten worse. The really bad part is now they are moving over into PA and screwing up our state (as if we didn't have enough problems with a Dem governer and 2 Dem (don't tell me that Spector is a Rep) senators. We need a big fence at the border.
officially live in Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Florida.
When I go to the Mall, I see just as many out of state plates as NJ.I believe they are trying to benefit from lower taxes/cost of living in other states while benefiting from the high incomes/amenities of my state.The only problem is that these people can't vote here and possibly not even in their new "home". I have no idea how people pull this off but, they do and often.
If we got a Republican in here to clean this place up, our state will swell in population just like it did during the '90s under Whitman. On the other hand, either you love Jersey or you hate it.
I'm never leaving until Florida gets widespread "real" Italian food(specifically pizza) and "real" bagels. I don't care if I'm the last Conservative here. I'll just buy more guns. LOL..
One of the hardest things to unlearn engineering students from jersey is that the exit is not a unit of distance.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
On the Parkway.
“I think we are the team to beat in the NL East -- finally.” - Jimmy "MVP" Rollins, 1/23/07
Planning on acting out the Omega Man?
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Let's nominate the Nash Equilibrium for President.
They had the best way back when.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Every time I drive into Jersey that's one of the most delicious memories I have. New Jersey pizza is *real* pizza. I think my two favorite places to eat in the whole wide world are Cioffi's in Union Center and Spirito's in Elizabeth (only a stone's throw away.)
Spirito's in particular, the last time I was there at least, is a Real Italian Family restaurant. There's nothing more authentic outside Italy. I don't know whether they've remodeled it, but the last time I was there, the decor was well-worn and homespun, the kitchen was furiously busy, the portions were huge and inexpensive, and the food was outstanding. People start their families after dinners in that restaurant and then keep coming back for years and years, and I can see why. It's almost a national treasure.
I go home I want two things: pizza and an Italian sub. The rolls, oh man, I wish I could get bread like that down here.
“I think we are the team to beat in the NL East -- finally.” - Jimmy "MVP" Rollins, 1/23/07
This was cited by my beloved bride for the wonderful, authentic Jersey pizzas one finds there. No bathroom, nasty staff, and basically a Totino's with extra toppings (burnt) -- it may have been the best pizza I had in that godforsaken place, and that's a pretty low bar it set.
Give me a Chicago-style, or at least a pie from some place where natural resources weren't stretched so thin that one could mistake pizza for flavored paper, any day.
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We are all heroes, you and Boo and I. Hamsters and rangers everywhere, rejoice!
you had to pick the one crappy Italian place in NJ. That sux.
Don't go to Panera Bread or Federici's they are too thin.
Ohh, go to 3 Brothers Pizza Chain, they got some in Belmar and on the Seaside Boardwalk.
They got slices that are super-sized round pies I'm talking 18 inches long and 12 inches wide. Its makes your day at the beach and they are open year round.
There are always places that specialize in the thin crust department, but its important to realize that thin crust is totally misrepresnative of pizza in any state.
Sure a place like Kinchley's or Nellie's and I assume this place as well (although I have suspicions about anything coming out of Trenton) will make a great thin pie, essentially any local pizzeria in the nyc metro area will better represent NJ.
I've also hit a lot of Mom-and-Pop places where the Sicilian pies are bearable, but the rest ... geez, why did it take Italians moving to Illinois to figure out how to make a decent pizza?
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We are all heroes, you and Boo and I. Hamsters and rangers everywhere, rejoice!
I've always heard people say New York City had the best bagels.
As far as I'm concerned, the best bagels are the ones you make yourself. They are very easy to make and stay fresh in the freezer for several months.
If you think good bagels come from the freezer, you probably also think that good sandwiches come from Subway and Dominos makes good pizza.
I pity you.
“I think we are the team to beat in the NL East -- finally.” - Jimmy "MVP" Rollins, 1/23/07
I'm talking about the ones I make myself. I seal those up in Ziploc bags and put them in the freezer. I take them out the day before, and they taste just as good as the day I made them.
I'm certainly not talking about any store brands.
We have no room for anyone from New Jersey, Illinois, California, Mexico, California, New York, California, Vermont, California or California.
You might be welcome to come to Scottsdale for no more than one week, stay in a resort, eat at expensive restaurants, play golf at expensive golf courses and GO HOME. If you are polite, we will allow you to take one undocumented worker (and family as appropriate) with you when you leave. They'll do jobs that folks in your neighborhood won't, don't complain and you don't have to worry about that pesky FICA tax.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
I had a friend that moved out to Scottsdale. He told me they almost ran out of water one year. I thought he was kidding; he wasn't.
Besides beck, more people equals more mortgages. Don't shut it down yet.
"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"
Contributor to The Minority Report
I sometimes miss the state, then see what the Valley has become. Then I don't.
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We are all heroes, you and Boo and I. Hamsters and rangers everywhere, rejoice!
to include Michigan in your list. Our socialist, Canadian, governor, that has been elected twice, is doing a wonderful job completely destroying the state. She complains there are on jobs so she raises taxes. I wonder who she think is going to pay them?
-Seraphinus
A Constitution in Every Pocket
six2five
The Democrats provide example after example of the failures of the policies they espouse, yet nobody points that out. The whole country should know by now that Michigan is in serious trouble, and it is because of their ridiculous taxes. We, meaning Republicans, ought to be running ads in states like New Jersey, where taxes are overburdening and people want to leave left and right, and challenge the people directly, ask the people why they continue to vote for people who will do nothing but raise taxes and increase the cost of living.
It amazes me that we can't find candidates who can take advantage of this frustration.
The naive forgive and forget.
The foolish forget but do not forgive.
The wise forgive but do not forget.
And we believe them!
In Michigan Gov Granholm told us it wasn't as bad as we all knew it was, and that it would all get better if we just re-elected her. We did (present company excepted) and lo and behold...a couple months later we discover the state was billions of dollars farther in the hole than we knew.
And the funny thing is, we have dumb voters who will continue to vote Dem forever and ever.
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About the Author
Lord Vegas is a true American. some would call him a Mutt, but he prefers the term mixed breed. Vegas would never vote for Granholm, but would love to bite her leg.
Just as a general update on NJ politics, while the '08 Senate race is a longshot, I do doubt Corzine could defeat Chris Christie in 2009. In terms of the futute Senate races, that hinges on the future of soon-to-be State Senator Bill Baroni, who I believe would offer real takeover potential in 2012.
While it is a longshot anyone could defeat Lautenberg next year, the only Republican with a chance could be "Jersey" Joe Pennacchio. Pro-Labor, Pro-Life -- he calls himself a Reagan Democrat. Low name ID and fundraising prevent too much takeover chances though. As for his opponent, Anne Evans Estabrook, if she wins you can write off any chance whatsoever of Republican victory.
It is a mistake to blame the NJ mess on a single administration--many of its fiscal problems have been long in the making--neither Kean nor Whitman were models of fiscal restraint.
Secondly, state taxes are not the biggest problem--local taxes, almost entirely property taxes are. Because of home rule, there's not a lot the state can do given home rule and political realities. Is home rule a convenient cover for corruption? Draw your own conclusions.
As far as living there--some people just can't stand it, some won't live anywhere else. As a NJ expat with all my family still there, I can say that there are wonderful things about living in NJ, especially if you have money.
Of course, people wouldn't be paying 2.5 million for 2000 sq ft in Avon if they didn't want to live there. To an extent, the high cost of housing and the congestion reflect the desirability of living in the state.
And, yeah, pizza in the rest of the country is an abomination. What kind of people put pineapple on a pizza anyway?
Pineapple on a pizza.
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That's an offense before God and man.
My wife the Jersey girl, however, loves pineapple on a pizza.
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We are all heroes, you and Boo and I. Hamsters and rangers everywhere, rejoice!
The only produce God intended for Pizza is the occasional mushroom or pepper slice - surrounded on all sides by copious amounts of 'roni and sausage (chunks, not sliced).
And if you don't have to fold the slice prior to eating it, it's not Pizza.
My ATF was Benny Tudino's in Hoboken - spent more than a little of my take-home pay there when I was going to S.I.T.
I hear it was still pretty good long after Benny and some of his family were busted for Coke trafficing some years back. Oh well.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
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Let's nominate the Nash Equilibrium for President.
Yes, the real problem in NJ is the billons of little separate villages, each with their own mayor, police, school system, etc. etc. There are about a half dozen school districts with a school superintendent and so on, but that run no schools (they contract out to a neighboring school district). The villages developed are separate entities in the 1700's but it has all merged into one great big endless suburban sprawl. The costs to administer all these little villages is very high. In a sane world, adjacent towns would consolidate, but the people running the towns (the mayor, police chief, etc) would loose their jobs if that happened, so they work to prevent that. Each governor has come in with a plans to reduce the cost of local government, but have mostly failed.
It seems to me that corruption happens even in higher levels of government governing over wide areas, doesn't it? Why would creating new, larger government solve anything?
HTML Help Central for Red Staters
Let's nominate the Nash Equilibrium for President.
It's the start of the real corruption. Local levels have the typical garden-variety corruption, but the major league stuff starts at the county level. It's where the folks who eventually rise to state level hone their skills, so to speak.
And that will never be done away with. Or change. Ever.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
Guess I need to refresh my html skills.
"But this is why it is. And that doesn't include NJ's incredibly generous pension plan for public employees.
Okay that link didn't work, I wish I could delete those two comments.
Here's a link that I think will work, select "Bergen."
But you're right that it's more than a blame the Democrats thing. The state senator where I grew up had a no show job at a high school and was pulling in 50k from being on the bridge commission. She's a Republican.
The whole political class in Jersey needs a real shake up. I really hope they elect Chris Christie in two years.
Hey, how bout Rutgers last night?
“I think we are the team to beat in the NL East -- finally.” - Jimmy "MVP" Rollins, 1/23/07
Local control is fine, but it costs money to run a lot of small towns. Take a look at a map of NJ: Little ferry (population 10,000, 1.5 sq miles) is cheek by jowl with Moonachie (pop. 2754, .7 sq miles) and with South Hackensack (pop. 2,249, 0.7 sq miles) and with Ridgefield Park (pop. 12, 873, 1.9 sq miles), for example. Each has a mayor, police chief, school system, etc. Compare that with Dallas 385 sq miles, population 1200000. Needless to say, taxes are lower in Dallas.
And wake up!!
They gotta get out while they're young...
Of course, 45+% of New Jerseyites have voted R in several of the recent elections; maybe they're the ones getting disgusted.
"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill