We Want Latinos in the GOP
By St. Louis Conservative Posted in Immigration — Comments (58) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
I want to kill the comprehensive immigration bill. I don’t like the way it was cobbled together in secret and without transparency, public hearings, etc. I also believe that it seriously flawed on many fronts. I don’t like the fact that this bill rewards under-educated, low-skill immigration, doesn’t mandate assimilation, and its border enforcement provisions are suspect at best.
That being said, I’m not opposed to providing a pathway to citizenship for law-abiding immigrants. The truth is, most Latinos do share American family values and have strong work ethic. I feel that the hysterical “NO AMNESTY” cries from some folks are a bit inappropriate for this debate. While I agree that this bill is not a good one and shouldn’t become law, we need to tone down the rhetoric and instead propose our own, principled bill that will work. I propose:
1. Secure the border and institute tamper proof employer emforcement provisions with REAL ID.
2. Offer a period for illegals to come forward and declare that they are here. Those with no criminal background and solid work history can apply for a probationary visa. If they elect to pursue citizenship, they can reapply for their visa when it expires without going home. There would then be a significant time period and several hurdles to pass through to eventually become citizens. Those who don’t elect to pursue citizenship can receive a probationary visa (if they are law-abiding and are gainfully employed), but it is temporary and they must “touch back” every few years or so. Further, make English the national language and make learning it a requirement for a green card or citizenship.
3. Introduce a merit system that encourages high-skilled and highly-educated immigration and puts those immigrants on a fast track.
4. Institute a guest worker program for low-skilled labor needs such as agriculture.
It’s funny to me that the same people who say that people who are against this bill are “anti-Hispanic” also say that these Hispanics are here doing jobs “Americans won’t do”. That, to me, is the height of racism, for by that statement, they basically say that these are crappy jobs and we need second-class citizens (the Hispanics) to do them. I LIKE Hispanic people, and I want them to come here and be upwardly mobile, not relegated to cleaning bathrooms all their life. Yet that is what this bill encourages. It’s not right, and it doesn’t benefit Hispanics in the long term.
I’m glad that conservatives are opposing this bill, but McCain is right, and we DO have a responsibility to propose our own solution. We want Latinos to be a part of our Republican party. Certainly not all of them will vote for the GOP, but instead of screaming “NO AMNESTY” over and over, we need to put forth a meaningful proposal to both secures and protects our border, while offering a real and practical solution to the countless millions that are already here. Jim DeMint, Jeff Sessions, and others should propose an alternative.
lincolnmonroe
I was born and raised in the southwest, our family is laced with people of spanish and indian descent, Our friends and neighbors were the same and they dislike the invasion of illegals from mexico also. The people I know get angry when they are called mexicans, "we never lived in mexico and we aren't mexicans, we're americans". Some of these people started a website www.dontspeakforme, which states as much.
This Immigration bill needs to be flushed along with GWB and every elected official that supports it. This bill would give the southwest to Mexico. You can already see in the southwest the type of politics from mexico starting to permeate and tear the american fabric that has made this country great.
The reason being there is no assimilation of these people at all.
They bring their culture with them a culture that from the northern border of mexico to the tip of South America, historically never did one thing to lift their people up out of poverty, the Master and the Serf. I believe it so ingrained in them that when they get to the U.S they don't understand what they have because they then want to turn this country into the 'crap hole" they just came from.
I voted for GWB twice supported him strongly, loved his tax cuts, supported him on Iraq and even put up with him spending liked a "coked up liberal" but with this Immigration bill, a bill that will basically destroy the United States I'm sorry I voted for him. Why save us from the Terrorists when your giving us to Mexico?
Is it truly your belief that all 'Latinos' think and vote the same way in America? Regardless of their specific point of origin or personal background?
When you refer to illegals without a 'criminal background,' does that include those who have a track record of overstaying visas/evading legal entry checkpoints/tax evasion/identity theft/use of forged government documents?
Run like Reagan!
Latinos care about health care more than any other issue, and most of them trust Democrats more in this respect.
Do they want cheap health care? offer cheap health care. do they want certain steps taken regarding immigration? Take those steops.
And if they want cash, prizes and lovely vacations to getaway paradises, I suppose we should give them that as well.
I wonder how they will feel about it in 30 years when their children are giving half their wages to give cash and lovely prizes to the newest people who find a way to sneak in.
I meant what I said and I said what I meant. An elephant's faithful 100 percent.
or suggest how we may bribe them to vote for us instead of the Democrats. The American taxpayer is already overburdened.
We have neither the obligation nor the means to offer new or expanded subsidies for healthcare, education, or anything else -- whether to "Latinos" or anyone else.
We already lack the resources to keep up with our existing Medicaid and Social Security promises, let alone pay down the huge and growing national debt. Yeah, let's fall even further behind and screw future generations worse so we can convince "Latinos" or some other group to honor us with their vote.
"How dare ANY group make demands or suggest how we may bribe them to vote for us instead of the Democrats. The American taxpayer is already overburdened."
I would respectfully suggest that making demands in return for votes is part and parcel of our democracy. It's easy to misconstrue what juanxoo said, but he did offer his advice and add substance to the conversation.
An excellent post, St. Louis Conservative, and right on the money.
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History is all that will help us with the future
i'm not singling out any ethnic or racial group for bussing to Canada or whatever you're talking about.
I specifically said that no "group" has the right to make demands for the federal government to forcibly seize more of the taxpayer's earnings. It's immoral and, given our existing national debt and unfunded liabilities, it's unaffordable.
I don't want to ship anyone to Canada. As for illegal aliens, of ANY racial or ethnic background, I want them deported whenever they're found -- through raids on construction & agricultural sites and day-labor congregation points, fines and jail for employers who hire illegals, and incidental discovery of illegals such as through traffic stops or when they commit other crimes.
As for legal aliens, I applaud their following our rules and waiting their turn, and I welcome them into our society to the extent that they're willing to speak our language, adopt our culture, and honor our basic values.
But I do not wish to pay taxes to give them Medicaid, food stamps, in-state college tuition, or any other benefit that should be only for citizens.
Becker was replying to Juanxoo (see how it is inset under his comment, and directly under yours.)
He means that if they want free health care, they should continue in a due North direction.
I meant what I said and I said what I meant. An elephant's faithful 100 percent.
Please quote the right words.
And I wouldn't lump together cash givaways, vacations and prizes with satisfactory health care. I would go further as to say affordable health care. Yes, Latinos and Americans in general want affordable health care. Doing this would attract more Latinos to the Republian party.
Stlouisconservative started this thread with the intention of gathering our thoughts as to how to attract more Latinos to the GOP. So far no answers have been given, no ideas have been presented, other than saying "no" to my suggestion.
What do you guys suggest?
accrues more power over the economy or individual freedom to Washington. That would certainly include "affordable" health care, since that is typically just a code word for socialized medicine along the model of Canada or England.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
...to attract more Latinos to the party? Do you feel that it's impossible at this time? Judging by the lack of ideas, I'd say many of us are giving up on Latinos for '08.
...Latinos or otherwise, to our party with government goodies and taxpayer funded giveaways. We attract people the way the Republican party attracted me - with conservative princples and traditional values that transcend race, creed, nationality, etc.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
values and platforms.
1. National security.
2. National sovereignty including secure borders (north and south).
3. School choice including voucher programs for all students.
4. Revamping the tax system from the ground up - flat or fair, pick one.
5. Revamping "entitlements" by fully privatizing social security.
For starters. I absolutely would not expand the reach of government in any way, especially "making healthcare cheaper". Think about going to your local passport office to apply for a heart transplant. Or having your mail carrier take out your appendix.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
THAT is why itrytobenice and others responded with some snark.
"Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?" (Macaulay)
Did you know that?
If you see a cheap laptop in a storre, I wouldn't suggest you grab it and walk out without paying.
And if you want cheap health care too, then I assume you identify with Hispanics in that aspect. In fact, I want cheap health care too.
Give cheap health care to everyone, smagar? I'm glad we agree. And this way the party would not only be seen more favorably by Hispanics, but by all other groups: white, black, etc.
I'm going to change my name to itrytobesarcastic.
She's right, I was responding to juanxoo. I happen to be very pro-immigration. Legal immigration. Legal immigration for people who will benefit the US. I am utterly opposed to granting amnesty to 12-20MM lawn care workers and dishwashers.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
-immigration reform that's a joke
-border control efforts that are a joke
Amnesty is a red herring. It isn't the amnesty, but the refusal of the political classes to recognize that borders mean something that drives us nuts. Once the borders are secure, amnesty wouldn't bother me.
And it's not the illegals from Querétaro that are the principal concern, but the ones from al-Quaeda.
but you make the statement "The truth is, most Latinos do share American family values and have strong work ethic.". I don't have evidence about the work ethic part of it, but I've read a couple of articles recently similar to this one:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20979
and this one:
http://depts.washington.edu/uweek/archives/2002.02.FEB_07/news_e.html
and this one:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_3_immigration_reform.html (see the section titled "Principle 4")
that contradict the widely-held opinion that Latinos have strong family values. Now that doesn't mean I wouldn't love to have every single *legal* immigrant as part of the GOP, but I'm hoping we're not basing our desire for legalization on a false assumption.
There is no more absurd linked set of selling points for amnesty and mass immigration of tens of millions of aliens than to point out "family values" and "work ethic." There is no culture on earth that does not have "family values!" Family values are the bedrock of every culture, descended and formed over hundreds of generations through tribes and clans and colonists and citizens that came before today's generations. Family values are the differentiator that set ethnicities apart from one another, and they have become unique in varying degrees, mostly based upon long-term historic geographic proximity, for each individual ethnic group on earth.
So, yes, Latinos have "family values." So what! So do wandering Somali Bantu, peoples in Muslim nations, Frenchmen, Swedes, Danes, Aborigines and every other ethnic partition on earth. The same can be said of "work ethic." There is nothing particularly "special" about Latinos except that they are Latinos who got to be Latinos over the course of millennia. As a group, like all such groups, they have particular tendencies and preferences that are predictable. The most astounding part of this to me is that there is myopic focus on the national elections, which are among the most volatile and least indicative of long-term pattern.
People fail to realize that national elections, like cultures themselves, are merely the end of a process in which our leaders are honed. Leaders rise from the ranks, and immigration policy is a key, if not the key, determinant of what "the ranks" look like for the future.
When it comes down to the details of citizenship, the fact of the matter is that ethnic groups, thanks to human nature, are incredibly consistent in how they behave over the long-term. If you want to see what your future as a part of the electorate looks like after amnesty, look at the local and state legislative races in the states where immigration has reshaped the polity already. Look at the rapidly changing makeups of the state legislatures, and governing bodies in counties and cities. It is there where you will find the markers of what sorts of leaders from which we must choose in the future, for presidential candidates do not materialize out of thin air.
We do not have historical voting trends to analyze for the 20 million illegal aliens or 13 million illegal alien Latinos, or whatever those numbers may be. But, as I indicated, there is nothing that will significantly nudge people away from their ethnic and cultural proclivities when they step into the voting booth. Jefferson warned similarly about this concept in Notes on Virginia. To paraphrase, he wrote that immigrants would continue to exhibit in the voting booth, and in demands upon government, the same behaviors to which they were accustomed to "back home." And Jefferson noted they would pass proclivities on to their children.
So, in addition to looking at changes in the state legislatures and at the local level, if you want to see the sorts of electoral decisions that 20 million illegal aliens, (followed by 60 to 80 million extended family members) will be making in a few years after they are granted this bogus set of "rights," you need to also look at the politics and government of the nations from which they came. And if, by chance, there is one predominate source of our illegal aliens - and there is - you should look to it for the type of leaders and leadership they will want and that they will have once they take part in the franchise.
Those who try to make you believe that there will be no radical change in the polity that comes with amnesty for 20 million illegal aliens are either engaged in their own fools errands or they are lying to you. As for me, based upon what the fools in the Senate are trying to do to my nation, I wish I'd never started doing voter targeting analyses for work and for contract more than 20 years ago so their chicanery would not horrify me so completely.
Better be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security. --Edmund Burke
Blog: TMYN
Wubbies World, MSgt, USAF (Retired):
public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.println("An argument is a sequence of statements aimed at demonstrating the truth of an assertion.); }
Will be a Republican and his name will be George Bush...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_P._Bush
He will probably run for Congress in a safe (R) district in Texas in about 10 years, then after a couple of terms, run for Governor or Senator, and after that on to the White House. So about 20 years from today, expect to see George P. Bush running for President as a Republican.
20 years is a long time to wait for a strong Hispanic leader within the Republican party, but that is the number one way to get Latinos in the GOP: show them- by who leads the party- that it is their party too.
La·ti·no / Pronunciation [luh-tee-noh, la-]
–noun, plural -nos.
a person of Latin-American or Spanish-speaking descent.
Also, la·ti·no.
[Origin: 1945–50, Americanism; < Amer Sp, special use of Sp latino Latin, perh. by ellipsis from latinoamericano Latin-American]
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All sarcasm aside, I think the bigger question is: why would we/do we categorize immigrants that come in from the south border any different from any OTHER immigrants? I believe the answer to that is that they tend to be closer aligned culturally than immigrants from other geographies.
This is a wholly made up category which means nothing outside the United States. You think that the people of Honduras, El Salvador, Argentina, Chile, Cuba and Mexico all see themselves as being part of this monolithic group? They don't, and should not be encouraged to do so.
That so many "Republicans" are encouraging them to do so is one of the many disappointing aspects of this whole mess.
Monolithic? No, definitely not. But a lot of Latinos see themselves as having a common linguistic and cultural heritage, just as the English-speaking peoples do. It doesn't take a lot of time hanging out with people from Latino backgrounds to know that, or to know that many of them define themselves to fit that label.
"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill
It's not in our best interest to grant poor unskilled immigrants citizenship. They aren't going to be voting for Republicans because of any "family values." People vote on economics more than anything else. Poor people generally love socialist rhetoric. Unless you envision the GOP adopting that kind of rhetoric, this is the key to making it very hard for the Republicans to win anything at all down the road.
The areas that most of these illegal immigrants come from (and have family back in) voted overwhelmingly for AMLO. This makes sense since those are the poorest and most dysfunctional parts of Mexico. Some of those parts are barely under the control of the Mexican government. Unless we are going to be running AMLO, Chavez, or Castro types on the Republican ticket, the appeal to illegal immigrants isn't going to be there. They'll have to settle for the next best thing, the Democrats.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
The longer term danger is that the GOP is sending a message to Latinos that it doesn't want them in the party. And if that message sticks, Republicans could put themselves back in minority party status for a generation or more. Hispanics are the largest ethnic minority in the country, and their voting numbers continue to grow. Hispanics were estimated to be 8% of the electorate in 2006, compared with 6% in 2004 and 5.5% in 2000. Census data show that the number of Latino voters could rise to 10% or more by 2008. The demographic reality is that the GOP can't be a majority party with Anglo-Saxon votes alone.
There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that Hispanics ever vote for Republicans more than democrats. Most of the current immigrants come from the poorest parts of Mexico and are filled with socialist propaganda. They are ignorant, poor, and don't like the gringos too much, and don't respect our laws or customs. In other words natural born Democrats.
The thought that they would vote Republican is laughably foolish and the WSJ is just covering up their real motive; an endless supply of cheap, publicly subsidised labor.
They are right that it will be the end of the Republican Party, but only if we do NOT slow down current immigration.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
Nobody said Hispanics vote Republicans, but it's not a matter of who gets most of the Hispanic votes. It's a matter of getting as much of the Hispanic vote as is possible under the present circumstances...There is no doubt that the 44% of Hispanics that voted for Bush helped him. Wouldn't you like to keep that percentage at least intact, or minimize the damage caused by alienating Hispanics?
That's the most commonly and thoroughly debunked piece of electoral mythology in the common era. It was 38% at most, which based upon exemplary localized trends, was anomalous a couple points above any future anticipated maximum.
Newbies are so easy.
Better be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security. --Edmund Burke
Blog: TMYN
We do need to reform the country's immigration laws. I didn't realize how bad they were until I took a class on Immigration Law in 2005. For those who don't have the time to read up on the process of becoming a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR), I will summarize it thus: it is full of Byzantine rules and it leaves much to be desired in terms of both fairness and comprehensibility.
I'm not asking my fellow conservatives to grant amnesty to those who have been taking advantage of weak border/immigration enforcement. But please consider doing something in the interest of fairness and what I call "good immigration". We want good immigrants. We really do. We want people to come to this country who have their sleeves rolled up and are ready to work. We need to reform the immigration system in such a way that "good immigration" is promoted and "bad immigration" (including both illegal immigration and immigration of future welfare recipients) is eliminated.
heck with the rule of law monolith. They can be won over just like I was to conservative principles and in many referenda in border states, Hispanics have evenly split on immigration measures.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson
I mean, you have a point. But Hispanics are not a race! The only thing linking all these people from different countries and races together is that they speak a more or less common language. They have no mutual "Hispanic" identity until they come to the US and are told they have one, or should have one.
That being said, the typical Spanish speaking immigrant, or should I say "immigrant", is poor and low skilled. Their position on the economic ladder makes them natural Democrats more than natural Republicans.
This can change over time, if we get control of our borders and allow the current legal immigrants from south of the border to assimilate. That process would be greatly speeded if we placed more emphasis on all immigrants learning English.
The problem is not an insurmountable one, if only there existed a willingness to try to surmount it.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
www.race42008.com
www.hinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
"One man with courage makes a majority" - Andrew Jackson
I want conservatives in the GOP. Skin color, ethnic background -- irrelevant.
With black noses, back eyes and black toes. And no thumbs.
Woof!
Franz has had a difficult day. Typing without thumbs is difficult and sometimes he does a typo.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
That being said, I’m not opposed to providing a pathway to citizenship for law-abiding immigrants.
So that would be legal immigrants, right?
Offer a period for illegals to come forward and declare that they are here. Those with no criminal background and solid work history can apply for a probationary visa.
These seem to be two separate points. Immigrants with no criminal background presumably already have a visa. But what will you do about the illegals who have declared their presence? And, if you want to prosecute and/or deport them, why would they come forward?
Quentin Langley
Editor of http://www.quentinlangley.net
International Editor of
I am a conservative ex-Republican of 2nd generation Hispanic (1/2) decent. I consider myself to be an unhyphenated-American.
I remember the days not too long ago when Republican Party of which I was then proudly a member proclaimed themselves to be the "Color Blind Party" and the "Party of Principle". Our strategy was to reach out with our values and to welcome all who shared them regardless of racial or ethnic background.
I have no problem reaching out to Hispanics with our values but as soon as we start reaching out by offering freebies of any sort (like amnesty) that are targeted towards their racial group we are pandering (or hispandering) and the Republicans are then no better than the RATS. Unfortunately that has become blatantly the Bush/Rove strategy and this lack of principle is one of several reasons why I left the Party in disgust. The problem with racial pandering is that once you start you can't stop. Like a blackmail victim, you have to keep delivering ever more freebies or the racial group will blackmail you by threatening to withhold their votes.
Lets leave the racial group pandering to the RATS. It will be interesting to watch them balance the demands of their black racial group against the competing needs of their Hispanic racial group against the competing needs of blue collar white union types against the competing needs of government unions like the teachers. The problem with trying to meet and balance all those competing needs is that it leaves little room for principle.
The Hispanic and Black voters who succeed in our economy and grow disgusted with RAT pandering will defect to the Party of Principle and maybe/hopefully the GOP will someday again deserve that moniker.
...I alluded to this in a comment I posted earlier. We don't attract people to the Republican party with government goodies and entitlements - that is for Democrats. The main point of my post is that we need to tone down some of the rhetoric that can come across as xenophobic (even though I know that it is not). When people shout slogans like "NO AMNESTY", it just gives ammunition to the race-hustlers on the left to paint everyone opposed to this bill as racists, bigots, nativists, etc.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
that I am not actually a xenophobic racist why should I be concerned about the blatherings of some cretin in the Democratic Party.
NO AMNESTY, NO AMNESTY, NO AMNESTY. Want to live and prosper in America? Terrific, sign the form and get in line. Oh, and be sure to bring some skills with you that will help you assimilate and become a productive part of our unique experiment in democracy.
John
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Modern Art: Created by the untalented, sold by the unscrupulous, purchased by the unknowing.
that I am not actually a xenophobic racist why should I be concerned about the blatherings of some cretin in the Democratic Party.
You should care only if significant numbers of voters are belieiving the charge against you and against your party. In that situation you should respond, and do so in language and media appropriate to the audience you are addressing.
Quentin Langley
Editor of http://www.quentinlangley.net
International Editor of
Nor at the expense of the law.
In war the only thing worse than defeat is losing.
-Me
The U.S. needs the enormous Mexican (currently illegal) workforce, and due to Mexico's economy, they need the U.S. I feel it is important to secure our border but it has to be open to these hard working people.
Furthermore, I would like to see these individuals thrive and contribute to our society beyond working in my yard.
those leaches who would break the law to come here to steal ID's and work illegally and leach off of the benefits of living in America without following the rules to get here.
You won't see them thriving and contributing to society beyond working in your yard because they are uneducated, untrained, don't speak English, and are not qualified for work that requires anything more than showing up. They are a drain on society, both fiscally and morally if you factor in the FACT that they are unrepentant law breakers who think that the US "owes" them.
The only direction our border should be "open" is in the north-headed-south direction.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
you could explain to us Graham/Chertoff/Kennedy xenophobic racists just exactly why the US needs the enormous Mexican (illegal) workforce and cannot possibly survive without them.
John
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Modern Art: Created by the untalented, sold by the unscrupulous, purchased by the unknowing.
Hey, two Graham/Chertoff/Kennedy xenophobic racists make a majority any day. :>)
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
To paraphrase the little girl in 'Poltergeist' --- I'm baaaaaack.
John
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Modern Art: Created by the untalented, sold by the unscrupulous, purchased by the unknowing.
Glad you're here.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
... We want Latinos to be a part of our Republican party. ...
Call me silly, but frankly I'd prefer just plain old Americans --- without regard to race, religion, ethicity, national origin. But then I'm one of those Graham/Chertoff/Kennedy/Bush unAmerican xenophobic racists.
John
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Modern Art: Created by the untalented, sold by the unscrupulous, purchased by the unknowing.
Forget the fact that many of us give time and money to help legal immigrants. We are of course closet bigots.The people I have encountered (who respected the law) only want to be known as Americans. Funny how that happens.
"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"
Contributor to The Minority Report
Since this bill has been defeated, what effect will that have on the 2008 elections? Who wins, who loses? And what of elections BEYOND 2008?
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
to this I see is the guest-worker program. There's no evidence we need it, and Americans should have first call on American jobs. That's not anti-Latino; that's simple nationalism, which needs no apology.
For humanitarian reasons, many illegals with strong ties here will be allowed to become citizens. That's not a deal-breaker as long as the border is actually enforced henceforth.
But I see no merit in giving visas to Mexicans who want to stay Mexicans, yet work here.