Redstate

Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Senior writer for The Hinzsight Report

...the announcement on Letterman is puzzling if they expect to win over the base that was an odd choice.

Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Senior writer for The Hinzsight Report

He is just dragging the campaign along with him. Is this really a surprise, though?

WE think the choice of words from professional speakers and politicians are something that must be held to account.

Humans make mistakes, god knows it's true, but for the wording in that particular location, to that audience? It is a good question that it was calculated, this is a McCain kinda thing, not dissing the troops, but pandering.

Well done is better than well said. —Benjamin Franklin

McCain is a really odd duck who seems to be reinventing himself from someone who COULD HAVE WON to someone no one wants. He's not the first to do it, but I can't, for the life of me, understand his mindset.

I understand that social issues are big in Republican primaries, but I have to believe on some level Guliani's sort of honesty on social issues must be better than McCain's complete reinvention of self.

I have to doubt that this was an example of pandering. What possible benefit does any candidate, especially a Republican candidate, get from it? I didn't think the Letterman show had any particular reputation for being anti-soldier; and the show was broadcast everywhere. To call lives "wasted" on tv at all would be monumentally foolish if you want the Republican nomination. Whatever else, it couldn't have been a deliberate affront.

Above thayt post should start "was NOT an example of pandering

Grr. the correction itself is wrong, sorry

Do you think McCain misspoke, or did his true feelings about the war come out? I know he's been highly critical of the administration, so for me, it's really hard to judge. If he expects win the Republican nomination, he's hemorrhaging pretty badly right now and needs some emergency help.

Jason

I think McCain has been frustrated at Sec. Rumsfeld's policies (which rightly or wrongly he saw as flawed) and feels that soldiers' lives have been 'wasted' not because our cause is needless or unjust but because we've pursued that cause badly, essentially setting ourselves up for defeat.

than Obama. That's the stuff I have come to expect from the far left. This should be a deal killer for McCain. There's no way he should be allowed to weasel away from this outrage.
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller

...it's really all semantics with him.

He believes the war is wrong, that we shouldn't be there and so...

But I'm sure someone will fetch this for you soon!

Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Senior writer for The Hinzsight Report

and googled "mccain on letterman" for video and there was zip.
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller

I saw the show. There wasn't any audience reaction at that line.

You obviously know nothing about war and the conduct of war. To say that ...because of mistakes in command and/or strategy, the lives of good people were indeed wasted. is almost beyond stupidity. The one certainty of every war, indeed, virtually every major battle, is that command mistakes WILL be made and people will die because of them.

By your reasoning, probably 300,000 of the 400,000 casualties in WWII were "wasted". I could do a rundown of the Marines campaigns in the Pacific, but I don't have the time. In WWII, both in the Pacific and in Europe, losing 3,000 men to a mistake wasn't even a bad one.

McCain shouldn't apologize, he should stop his campaign now.
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller

What do you know of war, other than what you've read in books or heard in war stories?

Stop shouting down people that you disagree with. You're just making yourself look like a loudmouthed fool, and preventing others from actually having productive discussion.

"If all men were just, there would be no need of valor."
- Agesilaus

I definitely agree with you. Military men/women's lives are not 'wasted.' Lack of oversight; military personnel without adequate training, equipment, and support; blank checks for U.S. companies 'for Iraqi reconstruction' without public bidding that might have saved the Federal Government money that could have gone to supporting our brave soldiers; and leaders who are unwilling to recognize failures their prior errors and failures. All these things have plagued this presidential administration.

Because of the poor planning and execution at the higher levels, we have found ourselves fighting a war of semantics at home, instead of mending our problems and going forth with the cause that our Creator has given us to do: the defeat of radical Islam.

Jason

Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Senior writer for The Hinzsight Report

This is all he's contributed so far

Well done is better than well said. —Benjamin Franklin

1. Lack of oversight. Please provide DETAIL as to exactly what you mean. Please note that there is no constitutional authority for congressional oversight of military operations. POTUS is the CinC. Congress funds the military.
2. Lack of "adequate training". Please note exactly what adequate training would look like and exactly which units have not received such training. FYI, my son is a Marine. I know something about this. Streiff knows a lot.
3. Lack of equipment and support. Details please, with alternatives. And as far as "support" is concerned, would be too much to hope that you're talking about a lack of support from the elected Democrats and the MSM?
4. Blank checks for reconstruction, no bid contracts. Please provide some detail on companies who are qualified to perform reconstruction work in Iraq. A list would be good. You also might want to discuss the "no-bid" process here, since there is actually a very detailed procedure for these types of contracts.
5. I'll pass for any commentary on "mistakes". The above will keep you busy.
6. And the "money question". Explain this sentence: ...going forth with the cause that our Creator has given us to do: the defeat of radical Islam. Are you actually saying that the US military is on a mission from God?
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller

I do think there is an underlying presumption that you believe that a war can be fought without errors in judgment and miscalculations and if lives are lost through those, then they are wasted.

Take for instance the example you give, the raid on Hammelburg. Knowing that PWs were suffering mightily in German PW camps and knowing that the German army was disintegrating, the raid looked both reasonable and proper. Yes, Patton's son in law was there, he was captured in North Africa in 1942, but so were a lot of other men.

Now in retrospect you can say he assumed away the possibility that the Germans might react sharply to the raid and maybe he sent too few men and maybe, now that we know the war would end in a couple of months, everyone would have been better off if he'd just waited. But he didn't know that. Can you imagine what the outcry would have been if those prisoners had died or been killed as 3 Army drove within a few miles?

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller

You're right that all wars involve errors in judgement and miscalculations that cost lives. It is impossible to fight a war without such events. In fact, it could logically argued that EVERY casualty in warfare is a result of a miscalculation or mistake at some level. As you point out, it does not follow that all lives thus lost are wasted.

However, war also comes with stupidity, negligence, incompetence, misconduct, and downright evil intentions. These events also cost lives, and happen to varying degrees on all sides in every war.

Sometimes stupidity and incompetence happen on a vast industrial scale, sentencing tens of thousands of men to deaths they cannot avoid. Consider some of the worst military blunders, like Napoleon's invasion of Russia, where half a million men froze and starved to death on a failed campaign. Or World War One, where somewhere around 11 million men died for no lasting effect other than a 20 year timeout. Finally, one could legitimately argue that every German life lost in WWII was wasted, dying as they did for the megalomania of one evil man.

More often, negligence and incompetence happen on a more banal scale, but the cumulative results are still dead soldiers. As an example, in every war soldiers are killed by accidental discharges of weapons, and we have lost several dozen young soldiers in Iraq to ADs. As another example, in Iraq I witnessed two elite special operations soldiers from another nation killed when they went to a holiday party, got drunk, and drove straight into a wall. Finally, a friend of mine was killed in a HUMVEE rollover because his driver was driving far too fast for conditions and nobody took the responsibility to tell him to slow down. That kind of stuff happens every single day.

I personally consider soldiers killed by incompetence, failed leadership, negligence, and misconduct to be "wasted", and I am far from alone in that view. That doesn't mean they were any less heroic, brave, or noble in their sacrifice, and it in no way devalues their families' pride in their service. But rather than doling out their sacrifice carefully, their lives were squandered on mishaps and blunders that could have been avoided. To me, this is the essence of military professionalism, the drive to keep avoidable casualties to the minimum while still achieving the mission.

"If all men were just, there would be no need of valor."
- Agesilaus

Do you have a problem with Barack Obama being referred to as "clean" and "articulate"? Can you see where some people might have a problem with that choice of wording?

Waste refers to garbage, excrement, leftover raw materials in manufacturing, and extreme intoxication. These are things I do not want associated with American soldiers.

There are plenty of ways to register dipleasure at the neglect or cavalier use of our soldiers' lives without using the word "wasted". You may think using it is a stinging indictment of those in power, but it is trivializing and demeaning to those who serve.

If you must use the term "wasted" in reference to warfare, please limit usage to hardware only. Example: When the Forrestal caught fire in the Vietnam war, over one hundred sailors lost their lives, and many airplanes--including McCain's--were "wasted" in the inferno.

Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Senior writer for The Hinzsight Report

Well done is better than well said. —Benjamin Franklin

would do, but I imagine that they would not get much more than one vote from people on Redstate- that vote coming from me.

We'll probably get a Howard Dean-type scream out of McCain that will be played on a "What Not to do During Presidential Elections" how-to for generations to come.

If that is how he feels, he is an a**hole. If he misspoke, he is incompetent. Honest.

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

McCain tries to pass himself off as a supporter of the war effort and of the military.

Obama used the same word a week or so ago and got roundly torched.

McCain bloviates and uses the same word.

Yeah, it's a big deal. A really big deal.
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller

... I'm not sure why Obama deserved to be torched, either. I mean, that guy opposed the war from the start, and has said repeatedly that he thinks that the cost has far outweighed any benefits. That's practically the definition of "wasted", but the pack-dogs only descended when he actually used the word.

So what's the beef? Just the "sensitivity" thing? When did we all get so PC?

Marine Battalion who's sons died in Ramadi in two tours that they are just getting to PC.

These young men go to war knowing they are doing the right thing, serving their country. The idea that ANYONE would used the term "wasted" for the death of any one of them is a very personal thing to me. I've stood with parents who've lost sons. I've known the utter panic of the door bell ringing when you're not expecting anyone to call. This is personal.

Those "wasted" lives in their short years have counted for more than Obama could ever count for, and frankly, more than McCain. This isn't a matter of sensitivities, it's a matter of priorities. Young men go to war. Some come home early from the fight. If the conflict is necessary - and the Congress and the President deemed it so - then their deaths are not wasted.

It's not a matter of cost/benefit. First of all, you (and McCain and Obama) are in no position to judge the benefit yet. Secondly, it's a matter of duty and honor. Something John McCain should understand, but apparently does not.

Both he and Obama are shameful dregs of humanity.
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller

I don't think there's any logical inconsistency between honoring the sacrifice of our servicemen and women and assessing the quality and results of the decision-making that sent them there.

In fact, I'd submit that both are things that responsible citizens should put a great deal of effort into.

That said, I understand that at an emotional level, it's very difficult to separate the two, which is why I understand if those families were to react badly. If you have a son there, well, I can only imagine what that's like, and I have no basis to question your reaction either, other than to say that I see this site as a place where we try to analyse things with rationality and logic, and I think there is a distinction there that we can reasonably draw ... and I hope that you don't read anything more into these posts than an attempt make that point.

McCain claimed lives have been "wasted" in a war he claims to find worthy. Now tell me, where is the logical consistency there? McCain was whoring for the cameras, and engaged in a little emotional appeal himself. It has bit him badly, as it well should. I give Obama a bit more of a pass because he always opposed the war and is probably a tad bit more stupid than McCain.

Excellent reply, by the way, Becker.

I think Sen. McCain meant that the Administration's handling of the war included mistakes which cost lives. I am not saying he was right to say they were wasted, either morally or factually. But I do think it is a reasonable position to favor the war itself, but not the particular tactical decisions made in its execution. I do not think it was right to express that position as he did, but also do not think he is insincere in his his support for the war. Whether his criticism of the Administration's handling is right or wrong, I think he is sincere in his belief that it has led to losses which could have been avoided.

While you can support the war and criticize the tactics, the use of the word "wasted" is needlessly painful and incendiary. I noticed he amended the comment to "sacrificed," which leads me to conclude that since McCain's audience was largely anti-war, he played to the crowd via his word choice. It was vintage McCain, and confirmed for me what I have long thought about the senator: he is unfit for office. Count me with Sen. Santorum. I don't know yet who I will support for president, but there is one candidate I will not. Fortunately, it appears that isn't a lonely position.

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

The only thing John McCain is sincere about is his desire to be President. Santorum nailed him.
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller

I agree that "wasted" was a poor description, any way you look at it. But it's my impression that one of the first rules of leading soldiers is not to do something stupid that gets them killed needlessly. Sen McCain thinks that that is what the Administration has done. I agree that 'wasted' is painful (and careless) but I think he was speaking from his frustion at what he views as needless losses. Despite the very poor expression, I respect being angry at policies that result in needless deaths. That's what I think McCain's motivation was. Whether he is right or wrong, I at least respect the concern.

is to make sure he says something that his current audience will relate to. His only frustration is that he didn't get elected in 2000.
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller

politicians minds and know exactly what their motives are. Please share your secret.

offsetting your channeling of Johnboy.
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller

Because if I did comment, Moe would rightly ban me, have my IP tagged and report me to homeland security.
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller

in his freezer.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.