Immigration bill released to Senators, cloture vote set for Monday

By Jeff Emanuel Posted in Comments (150) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »

RedState has learned that the 1,000-page Immigration "Reform" bill was released to members of the Senate only moments ago. A Cloture vote is scheduled for Monday. If passed, the floor debate will be cut off after 30 hours of additional debate time.

Correction: See here for more information.

Said Senator Jim DeMint in a statement today:

“I hope we don't take a thousand page bill written in secret and try to ram it through the Senate in a few days. This is a very important issue for America and we need time to debate it.”

“But the little we do know about the bill is troubling. According to reports, the bill contains a new 'Z Visa' that allows those who entered our country illegally to stay here permanently without ever returning home. This rewards people who broke the law with permanent legal status, and puts them ahead of millions of law-abiding immigrants waiting to come to America. I don't care how you try to spin it, this is amnesty.”

Senator Mitch McConnell said that "Secure borders, real security infrastructure are required for my support of any legislation," and then said this:

It’s encouraging to see a group of Senators from such a wide arc of the political spectrum reach an agreement on one of the most difficult issues facing our nation. The need to secure our borders, and to have a real security infrastructure in place is critical; it’s a requirement for my support of any legislation. I believe the agreement is far stronger than the bill the Senate produced last year. I will review the text of the bill and I hope to be able to support it when the Senate turns to this issue next week.

Senator John McCain's press office apparently hasn't issed a release or statement about anything since May 3.

Georgia Senator Johnny Isakson said in a release that he would "reserve judgment on supporting the final bill until the debate is complete," but that "at a minimum the bill must include [a] border security “trigger” prohibiting implementation of a temporary, probationary work permit program until the Department of Homeland Security certifies to the President and to the Congress that the border security provisions in the immigration legislation are fully funded and operational." Isakson also said that "the bill must prohibit any new pathway to U.S. citizenship and must require illegal immigrants to return home and get at the back of the line to apply for citizenship just as everyone must do now."

« Federal Jobs Illegal Immigrants Can’t DoComments (12) | This Is Reform?Comments (27) »
Immigration bill released to Senators, cloture vote set for Monday 150 Comments (0 topical, 150 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »

“Political Correctness” is just short for “Capitulation to Extortion.”

1) Filibuster in senate
2) Shut down the House until this is killed
3) Let them know that you will never give a dime to any candidate who votes for amnesty
4) Impeach Senor Bush (let Mexico have him)

Mitt Romney or Fred Thompson, where are you? Silence means you support amnesty. Speak now or go home!

Drop the "Senor Bush" garbage. There is plenty of room on this website for opposition to immigration, but there is no room for arguments premised solely on the fact that the immigrants are Mexican.

"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill

and they aren't "immigrants."
They are illegals, and they are overwhelmingly Mexican.

Didn't realize that this is a Bush right or wrong kool aid drinking site. Intresting that you use the left speak term immigration in lieu of "illegal immigration" which is what we're talking about, that is a deliberate attempt by you and those on the left to confuse the issue among the uninformed, to paint those that oppose illegal immigration as anti immigration and racist.

Sorry if that is not PC enough for you Dan, no doubt you'll threaten me an delete my comments as well.

As if Bush hasn't done enough already to damage the Republican party by his mimicking Lyndon Johnson in his handling of the Iraq war, he is doing for us what Johnson did for the Democrat party, and with this he will insure the Republicans don't regain the Senate for at least a generation and probably seal the defeat of the Republican presidential candidate in 08.

Actually that is a large part of the problem. If we need laborers we have the world to pick from and that wouldn't change the American demographics. Mexico is exporting their problems to us, much like Castro did in the 80's only on a grand scale.

I'm a Mitt man but if Fred takes the lead on this and Mitt's tepid, I'm switching.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

They both agree with you.

“Political Correctness” is just short for “Capitulation to Extortion.”

they both agree with me, but if Mitt just issues a statement or something while Fred really goes after this thing, I'm switching.

But if Mitt does the right thing, he's still got my vote.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

I guess in about ten years we can clean house again and leaglize 30 or 40 million illegals. We all know that with this on the table, the freds will actually step up border enforcement and stop the influx.

I think I'm going to throw up.

and then we can talk.

“Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15.”
-Ronald Reagan

Without border security first, more just come in to fill the void.

“Political Correctness” is just short for “Capitulation to Extortion.”

yesterday.

“Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15.”
-Ronald Reagan

is somehow to convince whatever conservatives are left in Congress to vote NO on cloture.

Some,bless their hearts, are already screaming amnesty.

If it goes to and passes cloture, Bush is going to sign it into law... thereby leaving options that may be unpalatable, but necessary.

Beginning the cycle of calls, faxes, etc....AGAIN

Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triump of evil is for good men to do nothing"

You are a great American. You are far better than our terrible politicians deserve. Thanks for looking out for your country.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

Not that any Republican would have been elected in 2008 after this Bush-engineered disaster (along with two lost or nearly lost wars).

but you're right about this piece of junk.

I haven't heard about Rudy, but McCain is done if he votes for cloture on this bill.

Romney or Fred.

Currently writing non-political stories over at first-cut-stories.blogspot.com

Just curious, and I think a good question:

How much will it cost to find, detain and deport 12 million illegal immigrants?

I've never heard a figure for this.

Less than the cost of X, more than the cost of Y, but the two questions are: how much? and: is it worth it?

These are legitimate questions, no baiting. I'm against amnesty, but I'm also deeply suspicious of bringing down the hammer on illegal immigration in such a way that would require large scale enforcement and deportation operations.

All that's needed is

(1) Secure the border.

(2) Deport any illegal alien who commits a crime. Family can go too, but doesn't have to. Those who keep their noses clean can stay for as long as they do so. Their punishment is that they know they could slip and get caught any time. Reporting a crime does not constitute cause for deportation. Don't announce this policy until after the border is secure.

(3) Attend to the other details necessary, such as registration and fines, at that time, too.

I realize this could also be called a form of amnesty, but it solves the problem for us, and it doesn't encourage more illegal immigration.

“Political Correctness” is just short for “Capitulation to Extortion.”

I'd say at least $1,000 a head. Which is 120 billion dollars right? I failed math.

from $2.5 trillion. Not that it matters since this country will be socialist in a generation and the GOP dead in one election cycle. I don't even see a need to argue it at this point. Even if this bill dies, Bush's incompetence has cast the die for this nation's rapid decline and ultimate destruction.

at least in the form of a comprehensive campaign to "find, detain, and deport" illegals. Reasonable enforcement actions against employers will finally put some disincentive in place. Right now, a contractor or manufacturer using low or semiskilled labor is foolish NOT to use illegals because he knows his competitors are and are getting away with it. Being a good citizen and obeying the law only goes so far when you're being run out of business by those who don't and who face no threat from ICE. If they jobs aren't here, they will leave so long as they can't fall back on the welfare system; which they can in some states. Those states deserve it.

In Vino Veritas

If you make it hard for illegals to find work, many will deport themselves.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

Enforcement on the business side is certainly an effective way of doing it, but it does cost something.

and on top of the cost for ICE to operate raids and enforcement, there is the cost in business lost.

I forgot the figure Swift companies threw out there after the raid, but I think they claimed something like 2.5 million lost in productivity.

Somebody will make up the productivity and for my part, they deserved the losses. It really doesn't trouble me that it will cause prices to rise in some sectors, e.g., agriculture, but the peon labor has kept much agriculture in the last century technologically. Once The South lost its Black peon labor, they found ways to automate cotton and tobacco production PDQ; something the CW said was impossible. When CA fruit and vegetable growers lose Manuel, they'll find a substitute for manual picking, and quickly.

In Vino Veritas

So what?

We have traded national sovereignty and security for a lower price on roofing and yardwork.

“Political Correctness” is just short for “Capitulation to Extortion.”

But its going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than 2500 billion dollars.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

and enforcement of existing laws. Actually, it should be a net gain rather than a net loss.

1. Build the fence;

2. Deal with employers just like the IRS deals with tax
evasion, with fines, jail, property siezure;

3. Withold federal funds from any State or municipality that
provides social benefits to illegals, such as health,
education, etc.;

The illegals will move thmselves back across the border.

I STRONGLY URGE YOU TO READ THE BILL like your Senators are (hopefully) going to do between now and Monday.

Yes, you will surely find MUCH to dislike, but let's go off half-cocked AFTER we see for ourselves that which we want our Senators to stand against.

I know, I know...there I go startin' to sound all calm and rational and stuff...but if I am gonna join the "sky is falling, country is dying" crowd, I want to be armed for bear...just sayin'

haystack's 12th:
Conservatives (and Presidential Candidates especially) shall offer no aid and comfort to the opposition in times of legislative conflict (and ensuing political campaigns).

Haystack, and/or Jeff -- could I get ya to post this link -- the link to the actual, freakin' text -- at the top of this front-page post, prominently featured?

I think all (well, a whole bunch of, for sure) Red-Staters will be interested in a look at it.

I plan to read every bit that I can stand before the gag reflex overpowers me.

It's war -- so when can we start shooting back at the enemy Democrats?

If the link is available anywhere, let us know. I'm guessing the LAST thing the senators want is the unwashed hordes (that would be us) to see the actual text of this abomination...I know, I know, I haven't read it yet either but do you honestly trust these people to act in the best interests of the citizens of the United States of America instead of their own? They're doing their level best to ram it through with nothing but the most cursory of debates in the senate!

If the link isn't available yet we should be demanding that it be posted publicly!

Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself.
Mark Twain

has a link to the bill.

It's war -- so when can we start shooting back at the enemy Democrats?

The assumption behind this seems to be that our executive and legislature will be intent on following through on every jot and tittle found in the bill.

Whereas anyone who's been awake these last several years knows otherwise.

If they were interested in enforcement they could just as easily done enforcement first. The fact that we will see the amnesty first is a pretty good clue as to what is actually going to happen.

Andy McCarthy

The Federal immigration bureaucracy that will be tasked with administering any of these reforms will be the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) under the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). CIS is already unable to effectively deal with its existing benefit adjudication missions. Virtually all internal and external Government reviews of CIS performance have established significant problem areas, including lack of resources and management performance. The bad ghosts of the old INS, from where CIS sprang, linger in a big way. To expect an already overburdened and poorly managed Federal agency to properly deal with a sudden huge increase in mission workload is a fantasy.

There will be no enforcement, other than perhaps some cosmetic efforts designed to keep the rubes quite.

Call your Senator and call Senator Kyl and Senator McConnell.

The Capital Switchboard number is 1-202-225-3121.

Do it.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

The list of CongressCritters to whom I've written letters outlining my disgust is already long. I've pleaded, cajoled, and ultimately told them that I wouldn't support them or send any money. Sooo, now I don't even have that left in my arsenal. I guess I'm just going to have to wait until the rest of the populace gets mad enough to that the steps that I have already taken. Bummer.

Do it again. A big storm of constituent anger matters a lot more now than steady letters from us diehards previously. Be part of the storm.

American citizens don't go off in a huff because they got their feelings hurt. American citizens don't give up when the going is hard. American citizens do whatever it takes to save their country.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

You appealed to my sense of duty. I just sent letters to Warner, Webb, and Kyl. Sometimes I despair my activist soul.

If only the RINO Senators who support this thing felt as much a duty to America as you do. It seems like they think their duty is to coddle a bunch of lawbreaking foreigners.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

http://kyl.senate.gov/contact.cfm

Give Kyl an earful. Let him know he's screwed the pooch and he'd better start making amends.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

To contact Mitt Romney:
info@mittromney.com

To contact Fred Thompson (?):
http://www.fred08.com/contact.aspx

To contact Sen. McCain:
http://www.johnmccain.com/Contact/ (Campaign)
http://mccain.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm?ID=64 (Senate Office)

To contact Rudy Giuliani:
webteam@joinrudy2008.com

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

I had to laugh when I read that it was part of the compromise. There is no way a Democratic Congress will ever allow that to happen.

And it doesn't matter anyway. There will be an amnesty, there will be no enforcement, there will be a bunch more illegal immigration, including
friends and family, and then they'll be legalized in the next amnesty anyway.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

Bush and most of our Senate sell-outs wouldn't let chain migration end. Actually, even if this bill is killed, the GOP will be wiped out in the near term because it even considered it.

If this bill gets shot down, sensible people will realize how important it is to have REAL Republicans in power.

Its babyish and emotional to take your frustration out on the whole party instead of just the ones who are squishes.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

To even consider a "guest worker" / "path to citizenship" / amnesty program without strong immigration border enforcement (spelled w-a-l-l) is simply outrageous.

How stupid do they think we are? Are we really supposed to believe that after all the past failures to even attempt to enforce the border and crack down on illegals that this time they'll follow through?

Our only hope is for one of the few remaining Republican Senators who've still retained their reproductive organs to filibuster this thing.

Oh, and after this there's no excuse for anyone to be supporting "Maverick" McCain. The only reason any Repubican should be "reaching across the isle" to the likes of Ted Kennedy is to smack him upside the head.

should have run with his buddy Kerry when he had the chance. No way he's getting the GOP nomination. This party stands for something, even if some of our representatives in Washington think otherwise.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

“Political Correctness” is just short for “Capitulation to Extortion.”

“Political Correctness” is just short for “Capitulation to Extortion.”

why is this thread titled "immigratio bill"

The THREAD SHOULD BE TITLED.....

BREAKING: AMNESTY BILL RELEASED TO SENATORS. cloture vote set for Monday

what the hell is wrong with the bloggers here....

What else can be said for this !@#!$%!&!!?! bill?

If this bill passes with Republican support it will be the murder weapon that killed the Republican Party. None of them will get re-elected, voter turnout will plummet and it will be a generation before anyone trusts a Republican again. What is it about Washington D.C. that rips the hearts and souls out of these people when they get there? They turn deaf ears to their consituents and totally forget about the REPRESENTATIVE
part of this Democracy. How is it that they think granting amnesty to all these people will HELP the conservative cause?
Is opening our collective pockets to people here illegally and selling out those who paid in somehow become a good thing?
Bah, it makes me sick.

Nothing can now be believed which is seen
in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes
suspicious by being put into that polluted
vehicle! Thomas Jefferson

Thune (alumni of same school)
Kyl
McCain
Isakson (my senator)
Chambliss (ditto)

They are complete idiots.

Romney or Fred.

Currently writing non-political stories over at first-cut-stories.blogspot.com

To say that a "deal" was worked out implies there was some giving and taking. Since we know any enforcement here is a joke that will never happen, what exactly did the Dems give up? About the only thing I can think of that's not in the bill is auto-enrollment in some union for all guest workers and to-be-made-legal workers. Sheesh.

They gave up not laughing at the Republicans to their faces.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

Fast track on immigration-- sounds like Nafta. Lets just say screw it and combine the three countries and combine the currencies. The fix is in, it is going to happen. There is nothing we can do about it. The soveriegnty of the US has been gone for a good 50 years already, let's just formalize it. When has any bill/treaty that we signed in that time even once benefitted us. Even by the laws of statistics, by accident, it should be that we benefit 50% of the time. But our leaders keep selling us done the path of globalism.
It is a shame, because many of these illegals are hard workers and have decent family values--maybe we can send our welfare clientele oversees.

The servers are down on the Alabama Senators' websites. Are there any problems with other senators' websites? I got through on Shelby's, but I can't on Sessions. As far as I know, Sessions is against the bill, but I don't know about Shelby. I don't trust him very much.

Phone lines are also being clogged and voicemail boxes are overflowing. Keep it up, y'all!

I'm going to be letting my Senators plus Kyl and McConnell hear from me every day until this thing is defeated.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

All conservatives should call this bill by its real name:

the Crime against America

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

From what I hear, this is a bad deal. However, leaving the Republican Party over a single issue or hurt pride is counterproductive.

This bill is the product of those conservatives who declined to support Republicans in 2006 because of the immigration issue, spending, or anything else. We have a virtually unbreakable two-party system in this country, dictated by the structure of the system and the distribution of the people's preferences.

We can work within the Republican Party for change, or we can let the Democrats get their way on everything. Those are the choices we have.

If it were only illegals that were the problem "issue" I would completely agree. BUT, it isn't... is it? Seriously, I would burn some folks in effigy if I didn't fear being arrested for open air burning. Before I do that, I'm ready to become an "I."

This was just the last straw. Fortunately, none of the top three are that much better than who will be elected now, Hillary, who will win in a landslide. Enjoy your cheap yard work as our government turns socialist and the GOP turns to dust.

I wish it were ONLY a single issue! The Republican Party is a sham! It has no principles and it has abandoned its conservative base at almost every point. And who is the "leader of the gang"? None other that GWB. As for "working within the party" that too is a pipe-dream. All we are thrown are bones in order to get our votes, but when the major issues come to town it's a different story.

McConnel should be removed from the GOP leadership if he supports this.

Asked about a possible vote on a bill asking U.S. forces to leave, McConnell said: "I want to assure you, if they vote to ask us to leave, we'll be glad to comply with their request".

YES, Mitch McConnell really did say:

"I want to assure you, if they vote to ask us to leave, we'll be glad to comply with their request".

McConnell WILL BE GLAD TO TAKE MARCHING ORDERS FROM THE IRAQI PARLIAMENT. This is not leadership.

Not to be off topic, but we then would be there illegally. The whole point is we are there at the request of the Iraqi Government on behalf of the United Nations.

It would only be appropriate that we leave if they ask us to. The whole point of what McConnell said is that we aren't going to stay there any longer than we're wanted. Right now, something Democrats and liberal blogs want to paint as truth is that we aren't wanted there. But in reality the elected government of Iraq DOES want us there.

It's not like he's agreeing to "cut and run."

and as an ally, if the elected government asks us to leave we should. If you want precedent, look to France after WWII. They asked us to remove our military and we did. And in the case of DeGaulle, Dean Atcheson said to him, "Should we dig up our dead and remove them as well?"
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

that you are holding the accountable for their CLOTURE vote.

If they vote "yes" on cloture, but "no" on the bill, that doesn't mean anything.

Oz

Romney or Fred.

Currently writing non-political stories over at first-cut-stories.blogspot.com

We oppose all RINOs who support cloture. Stop the Crime against America.

Mitt or Fred.

I'm enjoying the victory or death vibe I get from hard-liners on immigration. But this bill is indirectly your fault. The hard-line approach is a non-starter with the current political reality today. Don't agree? Tancredo has about as much chance getting elected President as I do. So the amnesty-or-death approach signals that you won't compromise, and compromise is the only way your very valid viewpoints will ever be heard and taken into account. Alternatively, the Democratic-controlled Congress will write you off and focus on the Left and the Middle for a solution, and as a result it will be the wrong solution. The one we're getting today. Nice work. Grr.

"The pain inflicted by your country's indifference is tenfold that inflicted by your ruthless captors."
Rep Sam Johnson on the House floor commenting on his experience as a Vietnam POW

...for not going to conference and ironing out a sufficient bill when we had the majority.

Spitballs?!?! / Yo No Soy Marinero, Soy Capitan

We don't have to pass a bill at all. It would be just fine to keep stepping up enforcement efforts and not pass more immigration bills.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

I'm the guy that is kept in a glass case that says "Break Only in Emergency." I've got four freakin' years in combat (not as a REMF, BTW) and I'm tired of being told to sacrifice and suck it up... to compromise. I will not compromise. All these jerks can kiss my big, bushy tail!

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

I trust you will enjoy reaping what you have sown.

The position you are opposed to is the one favored by the vast majority of Republicans, and even the majority of Americans. Your "compromise" position has always been "give me everything I want".

I hope the "moderates" will be happy with the tax increases they have fought so hard for, and that they live long enough to appreciate their folly.

tankertodd- no bill is what we are striving for rather than a Kennedy-McCain bill being approved.

I've never not voted and I've never not voted for the GOP, but if this passes, I'm officially out and I'll be voting for Tancredo or whoever from now on since bother parties will be essentially the same.

This is the message that I keep getting every time I try to email my Senators. Hopefully it is a result of a tsunami of opposition to this bill.

"Server Error
The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete your request.
Application server is busy. Either there are too many concurrent requests or the server still is starting up."

...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...

---Thomas Paine---

I will keep trying, and I will start calling after I get off work.

...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...

---Thomas Paine---

I get error messages everytime I try and send an email through Senator Bayh's website.

Bush may be for this, but if they get enough negative feedback there, Rove might try to tie it up in the Senate.

president@whitehouse.gov

Oz

Romney or Fred.

Currently writing non-political stories over at first-cut-stories.blogspot.com

Done.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

McConnell is pulling a Bill Frist and caving to the Kennedy-McCain amnesty machne.

We've replaced one dolt with a brand new dolt.

e-mail stating ALL Senators phones, fax lines and websites
are overloaded and therefore non-functional.

Think they'll get the message?

They most certainly will if protesters show up at their homes and local offices.

I'm beginning to call state reps. and state senators hoping that a fellow politico has a louder voice than I....

Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

they will say the phones were overloaded with congratulations and cackle with destructive glee. anyone who complains will be labeled a bigot

If they are going to get the message we need to keep up the pressure. Keep calling, writing, emailing , etc. They will only get the message if this is sustained.

...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...

---Thomas Paine---

Good work all. Keep it up.

The fact is that most Senators aren't very bright. They didn't expect this kind of storm. Some of them will start having serious second thoughts.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

There has never been a President so eager to sell out the interests of the American people as what is happening with George W Bush. This is the end of the GOP party IMO if this immigration bill passes. I will never again give money or support to the RNC, NRCC, NRSC, etc....NOTHING, FOREVER! It's time to start burning up the phone lines and flood our representatives with angry letters. It's time for a political human sacrifice on steroids. Are you listening David Dreier?

Powder Blue Report

that Bush has set out to destroy the GOP all along. it is the only way to make sense of his actions. remember Bush Sr ran AGAINST Reagan

Its fine to stop giving to the national party for awhile. But don't punish Senators like DeMint or candidates like Fred or Mitt who are on our side on this.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

Someone said earlier we need to reform the GOP form within-> why not start by removing Mitch McConnell?

If McConnell is this out of touch with his party, why is he the leader? Not only is the GOP not represented in the senate by its speaker, but even the minority leader is in bed with Kennedy\Reid\McCain.

We have taxation without representation.

I just got a fact sheet on this bill, and I have no idea whether it's accurate or not, but it claims that the bill has the following provisions:

The rest of the bill doesn't kick in until the border/work enforcement provisions are met, immigrants will returning to home country and getting back in line to file for green card, ending chain migration, and the fine looks to be increased to $5000.

I mean, looks pretty good to me, but it's probably the end of this country all the same.

------------
[F]or by the fundamental law of Nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred...

-John Locke

You got a "fact" sheet.

The bill gives all illegals a provisional visa right away. This visa never expires and is not dependent on enforcement.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

It's good for a maximum of 3 two-year terms, which must be interrupted with at least 1 year in the home country, then it expires and you have to go back to your home country and apply for a green card. That's what the sheet says. I remain open to being told that this isn't what the bill actually says, but the hysteria I'm reading here is absurd from people who have not even read the bill, which at least two commenters upthread actually said wasn't necessary.

------------
[F]or by the fundamental law of Nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred...

-John Locke

But I don't trust "fact" sheets put out by this group of clowns on immigration. They have a long history of deceit on the subject, starting with their denial that any amnesty is involved.

And it doesn't inspire confidence when they're asking for a cloture vote on a 1,000 page bill within 2 working days of releasing it. You think they think this thing can stand up to public scrutiny? Neither do I.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

Both announced this morning this wouldn't be an amnesty before they even got the propaganda/fact sheet. Yessir.

That they were two of the GOP folks who were involved in the drafting process. I don't know where you're from, so I can't answer that definitively.

------------
[F]or by the fundamental law of Nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred...

-John Locke

They are just your garden-variety lying pols.

How are we supposed to enforce a provision that requires people to go back home for a year if we can't even enforce the relatively simple laws we have now? That's the point of enforcement first. Giving folks a six-year visa before any enforcement benchmarks have been met is not enforcement first.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

is necessary? We have laws that, if enforced, will secure the borders. We have an enacted bill that calls for construction of a fence/wall that will vastly improve the efficiency of the the piddlng resources we've allocated to enforcing those laws.

We can already deport those who show themselves to be threats to society.

Just what is this bill supposed to do that isn't already possible? Oh, yes, it grants an advantage to the folks who broke our laws and came in illegally.

“Political Correctness” is just short for “Capitulation to Extortion.”

if you don't already realize what this "deal" means

Guys, time to start the effort and get Georgia to secede from this union of surrender monkey states. Screw this federal government.

Several real GOP governors need to start talking about banding together and leaving. If you live and work in these states, or have property in these states, you will get citizenship in the new United States. Otherwise, have fun in bozo land of lazy socialists and their indentured labor.

Really, start a petition effort now, get a few million to sign up, and then take the streets. This needs to happen now, otherwise we will only lose more and more.

just trying to defeat this bill before it gets passed?

Leave the preemptive surrender to the Dems in Iraq.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

and the governor from this state, but this is looking very very bad this time.

Once it passes we aren't getting it back and the national GOP is going to suffer horribly. Any of them voting for this is an actual traitor to the nation and should get their just rewards.

I would never associate with or support the GOP again if this passes. It demonstrates how useless the party is if they can not keep their officials from supporting something this ridiculous. There is no reason to ever trust them or vote for them again, ever.

I just through to Webb.

...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...

---Thomas Paine---

I don't understand the controversy and I don't understand the need for more legislation. We have that already. More amnesty is simply prolonging the problem if we refuse to enforce the laws we have. I'm thinking we've already given amnesty to about 3 million and created laws to resolve these problems in 1986. It didn't work. The reason it didn't is simply because we didn't enforce the laws for reasons that I'll not go into as redundant talking points are a dime a dozen.

Let's assume you go home today and find water spewing from your faucet and soaking your floors and carpets. The 1st rational thing to do, regardless of the damage, is to stop the leak. We have refused to stop the leak and are now arguing over "amnesty". Let's stop the leak, enforce the laws, and then give our attention to cleaning up the mess.

How is Bush going to keep fighting this war with a 0% support rating?

and get rid of him...but they know he's good for many more "compromises"

Though he's bungled the war in Iraq by running it PC and tying the soldiers hands just like in Vietnam it's not an impeachable offense, but refusing to enforce laws on the books regarding immigration probably is.

My son had always been planning on joining the military but last year he said, why should I be expected to defend the nation when the President won't even do it? Do I maybe sacrifice my life in Iraq, while we are being invaded on a massive scale from the south and nothing is being done.

Essentially there is no country to protect anymore, if you give your life you gave it for open borders, not a particular nation.
It's amazing anyone will serve in the military anymore,

Frist opposed the Kennedy-McCain amnesty and open-borders bill last year whereas McConnell supported it full heartedly.

You know it's bad when you're "pinning for the days of Bill Frist," but he was 100X better than the chump we have as a leader now days.

pining for the days of Bill Frist.

Romney or Fred.

Currently writing non-political stories over at first-cut-stories.blogspot.com

But I want more than 5 days to hear about it. Makes me suspicious.

I do think that the citizenship requirement is too lenient. There's a difference between inviting someone into the neighborhood to mow your lawn, and inviting someone to live in the neighborhood. But I do realize that we need the low-skilled as well as high-skilled labor from around the world to feed our growing economy.

so simple... there is no new legislation needed. just enforce the laws we have on hand. doesnt illegal mean illegal anymore?

That's crazy enough it just might work!

P.S. To Kyl and McConnell: any compromise is worse than the status quo. Get a clue.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

Who thinks that the next 30 million aren't packing their bags and headed towards the borders right now. Law breaking is rewarded by AMNESTY. Tally Ho ...

There are still lawsuits pending from the 1986 AMNESTY SCAM.

Put your nose down and work your b*tt off to amass as much money as possible; so you can insulate yourself and your family from the deliberate stupidity of our mediocre 'statesmen'. This is the death knell of Conservatism as a governing philosophy for at least a generation - unless you believe 12 million undereducated , lower economic rung illegals are going to vote Republican.

Bush is going to go down as the single most economically destructive President since Herbert Hoover - and with greater justification.

They are going to tax us to death, and very soon into the next administration the economy will crash, and crash hard.

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

this is rome in year 390AD, when the barbarians tribes, like the visigoths, were able to settle within the empire, never assimilated, eventually directly contributeed to the fall of the empire.

look at mexico and south america, its hard core leftsit socialism, they love guys like che. now why are we supposed to expect that they will assimilate, embrace capitalism, free markets? the life boat will sink.

i predict that 50 to 100 years from now the US will begin to split up and eventually our western, civilized law abiding culture will fall

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

Press release on Mitt Romney site:

Governor Mitt Romney On The Senate Immigration Agreement
PRINT EMAIL DIGG DEL.ICIO.US FACEBOOK Email this Page To:
Multiple addresses seperated by commas From:
Subject:
Message :
Thursday, May 17, 2007
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: Kevin Madden (857) 288-6390

Boston, MA - Governor Mitt Romney issued the following statement on today's U.S. Senate agreement on immigration reform:

"I strongly oppose today's bill going through the Senate. It is the wrong approach. Any legislation that allows illegal immigrants to stay in the country indefinitely, as the new 'Z-Visa' does, is a form of amnesty. That is unfair to the millions of people who have applied to legally immigrate to the U.S.

"Today's Senate agreement falls short of the actions needed to both solve our country's illegal immigration problem and also strengthen our legal immigration system. Border security and a reliable employment verification system must be our first priority."

“Political Correctness” is just short for “Capitulation to Extortion.”

of the 3 top tier candidates i like him the best...mcain likes kennedy too much, and rudy has openly spoken out in favor of illegal immagrants (while talking tough on national security which blows my mind)

but not if he supports this bill, so that leaves only Romney or one of the lesser candidates. And I don't see any of them having a ghost of a chance to beat Hillbama. Maybe Thompson, but he seems too selfish to run.

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

Kiss off schmucks.

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

Under any program without teeth of enforcement, what alien will say, golly gee, my 2 yrs are up. I better go back to Mexico for a year.

Real change requires real change. -Newt Gingrich

It needs to be stuck there through next week

Romney or Fred.

Currently writing non-political stories over at first-cut-stories.blogspot.com

Conservatives care. We'll take action if RedState cooperates.

They that are with us are more than they that are against us.

Just curious, but I wonder what Vice President Cheney's position is on the amnesty legislation? It's very unlikely that he would ever publicly voice any opposition at this point; however I suspect he will after the 2008 elections or maybe somewhat sooner. I can't recall any strong statements from him in support of this in general.

I can't help but feel that if the Vice President was a candidate for President in 2008, we wouldn't be here. A double lame duck administration is a very bad thing; one guy pursues a mis-guided legacy and the other doesn't give a damn.

Go Mitt!

Lets take Erics approch and clean house. Maybe make some progress in 2010 and see if there's anything left of this country to salvage in 2012.

McConnell is an [acrosoc101] for supporting this. We have political treason committed by our leadership. Taxation without representation.

Moe Clean up in aisle #534,729,348,023,489

...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...

---Thomas Paine---

the borders it's time that the people vote all of these #$%^& out of office both parties.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

I'm a fairly liberal Democrat - I happen to think for myself, however, and agree with most here that illegal immigration is a HUGE problem, one that neither of our parties are dealing with effectively. Living in California (and being raised in Texas) it's particularly easy to see the negative side effects of an entire population of people sapping resources, sending money home and not being willing to integrate themselves into the environment they immigrate to. This says nothing of the crime rates in dense immigrant neighborhoods or the crime of illegal immigration itself. If you or I tried that in, say, Germany, we'd be ousted pretty quickly.

I think one thing we all need to accept (and use as the focal point for getting this issue solved) Is that BOTH parties base the majority of their votes on what big business wants, NOT what you or I expect. This issue in particular proves that, by highlighting just how far the Republican leadership will stray from their base to appease their corporate backers. Both Republicans and Democrats have a huge vested interest in getting the money out of politics, even if some of the time it benefits one of the parties. without this step, we'll never make progress here.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'd like to say that I am 100% in favor of a secure border and getting to the point that we have ZERO illegal immigrants into this country.

I am also 100% in favor of doing the VERY same thing to our Northern Border (for national security reasons) that people want to do to the Southern Border.

My two questions is, why SUCH the focus on illegal immigration in 2007 when throughout most of our history, (including before there was a United States) there have been people coming here for a better life and people already here who would prefer people not come here.

It was the Germans. It was the Poles. It was the Italians. It was the Irish. It was Catholics. It was Asian people. It was FILL in the blank. Yet we seemed to be fine up until fairly recent (at least for the two and a half decades I've been alive).

My second question is why are we SO intent to focus on just Mexicans and other Latin Americans coming here when an even more insidious form of illegal immigration are people who jump their visas and start hiding out? Is it because they speak another language? They look different? Don't want to assimilate? Is it because they aren't really interested in becoming an American more than they are interested in just abusing our generosity and greed and send money home?

Anyways, like I said, I'm not some closet-Democrat. I am 100% in favor of enforcement before ANYTHING else is even considered. I just have some honest questions and concerns.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

-Will

You're comparing legal immigrants to illegal aliens, and when my Italian relatives came here, they were expected to assimilate by learning the language and the culture. They flew an American flag, not an Italian one. They didn't make demands, they were happy to be here. They went through Ellis Island and other ports of entry and did so, LEGALLY.

What I've heard of it, doesn't sound so bad.

Some I like. Some I don't like. I've compromised before, and I'm willing to do so now.

I meant what I said and I said what I meant. An elephant's faithful 100 percent.

itrytobenice

If you want to not be run out of town on a rail, better take a deep swig of the old "Hard line" brand flavor aid. Seems to be drink of choice in these parts served up at the Tancredo Inn.

But seriously, I too have not read the bill, nor does it look like we the public are going to get a chance to see it or will there be much of a chance for the general public to see the bill before it is enacted. That's bad and that's wrong.

At the same time, I live at ground Zero of the illegal immigration invasion, Los Angeles. Illegals, or rather the lack of tax payers coupled with increase of service consumers is killing the county services. Many of the trauma centers in LA are closing, most of the schools in the area are overcrowded and the free ways are packet. All these effects are caused by 6 Million plus illegals coming into the area over the last 10 years, most of whom work off the books and don't pay into the tax pool like the rest of us. The mantra of just enforcing the existing laws is never going to happen in LA, and President Bush has shown no real leadership in this area.

Me, I'm willing to accept less than perfect law to get something done. I'm tired of waiting on Republicans to get their collective act together and actually pass legislation that appeals to the hard line folks. Didn't happen for six years and failing a miracle in '08 won't happen for the foreseeable future.

_______________________________
Fred...Fred...Fred..!

Add in the families of all of those ZVisa holders and your schools and hospitals will be more overcrowded.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.

mbecker

That's where you're wrong.

What is killing LA is that the 6 million illegals here are hard working, but they are working off the books for cash to a large extent. They don't pay all the taxes that those with regular W2 jobs entail. If there is a clear and recognized fair path to coming out of the shadows to regular W2 job status, along with stiff work place enforcement efforts for going after business cheats, then the tax payer numbers will increase.

All good things in my book.

The next battle, at least here in California, after the new program is in place, is to start pushing on the state to increase fines and inspections of businesses for compliance with payroll tax laws. The battle ether before that one or after, not clear to me yet which, is to stop ignoring illegals who are also criminals and start deporting those who are arrested and incarcerated in our jails.

Yes from what I have read this is not a great bill, but it is a whole heck of a lot more than what got done over the last six years.

_______________________________
Fred...Fred...Fred..!

What I would love to see "written" into this "compromise" is an amendment that says that ANY government within a state prevents the Federal Government's immigration policies from being enforced, that state will no longer receive ANY grant-in-aid from the Federal Government for ANY program.

That's right, make governors put the fear of God into their mayors and County Councils.

Heck, we'd be closer to a balanced budget with just the cluster that is San Francisco and no money going to California.

that's an unrealistic solution. Most of the states that immigrants tend to jump our borders through are decent-sized economies, all giving way more in federal taxes than they take in federal aid. This may sound like a given, but a lot states are real moochers and take more aid than they pay in taxes, primarily in the South. Anyway, there is no way a large cash-cow state like California would sit idly by while their federal aid dollars were stripped, and then proceed to send in $10B in taxes that year. The feds would never ask for such a ridiculous measure, the states would never agree to it, and the congress, well, I think you know the answer there...

(First I recognize it as unrealistic in the "real world")

However, for instance, who pays for most highways to be built in this country? The Federal Government is HUGE when it comes to transportation monies.

You could cut off education monies, healthcare spending, the list is rather lengthy.

The reason the Federal Government has so much influence in areas it is not constitutionally allowed is through it's power of the purse. The Feds say "States, if you want the cash, you gotta do what we say."

There is nothing except political reality saying that the Federal Government cannot bring these "sanctuary cities" to heal by using the state governments to do it.

That, or let the Feds go in and arrest Newsom and his like.

Maybe we need to also look into making the harboring of illegals a serious felony... if recording a DVD can get me over 100k fine and five years in jail, why not make harboring an illegal just as bad?

Again, it'd be awesome to see the Federal Governmet get some nads on the issue.

What I would like to see is a citizen tax revolt until our borders are secured properly.

Real change requires real change. -Newt Gingrich

..that President Bush would spend all that time bemoaning how
fragile social security is yet he is so eager to fling open our
collective coffers and give our money away. I live in Bradenton, Florida and am in construction business, my wife is
an administrator at the local hospital. Both of us have seen
the stress large numbers of illegal and indigent immigrants have on the community. Doctors have been fleeing the hospitals
for a variety of reasons but one very large one is the indigent care they have to provide for little or no money yet still carry the same if not larger risk of malpractise insurence. Most claim not to speak english and provide identification that turns out to be false yet they sure know what lawsuit means $$$$. Now I know that the illegal aliens are not the only indigent patients but the numbers are huge, especially in a community such as ours where there is a huge
agricultural group, melons, tomatoes, oranges etc. And it's not fair to the immigrants either as they are paid bad, live in squalid conditions and are taken for granted by their employers. I mean who are they going to complain too? Deportation fears, no matter how insignificant, keep them in the shadows. Is it good for our country to enable a group of people to live like that? Do crushed american dreams do us justice? When did it become standard practice for our representatives to ignore the voices of the voting citizens of
this country? And why do we let them get away with it? Example, when the so-called "blue-dog" democrats initially took office they openly stated how they wouldn't vote for a military funding bill that had timetables/deadlines, much to the chagrin of the lefty democrats. No sooner had the Blue-Dogs warmed their D.C. seats than the rest of their party openly bribed them with our tax dollars, in the form of pork and earmarks. Those Blue-dogs shed their integrity in a heartbeat, without a second thought. Once tossed a bone any
principles thay had disappeared. And the bribery was so open
and visible yet barely a peep from any of the major media
sources or from any of the Republican leadership. Democrats
spout off about the end of political corruption and the open manner in which they will govern yet they immediatly try to place criminals in positions of power. Barely a squeek outside
of conservative bloggers and one or two Fox editorials. Everyday we base republican voters scream to clean house and get rid of any of our own debris as democrats embrace their
crooks and circle the political wagons.
So here we sit watching all the democrats and a few republicans destroy our country and destroy our party for the sake of cheap labor(republicans) and millions of new votes(democrats) and NONE of them are actually thinking of whats good for our country, it's future and it's LEGAL citizens.
Are we going to let this happen? Maybe it's time WE rise up and force them to listen to us. Somehow, someway we HAVE to
get their attention and make them listen to us. I don't know if emails and phone calls will do it this time. The Republican Party better hope so because if this goes through
it will be the end for them. The base will leave them, no votes, no money and no cushy jobs where you get to vote for your own pay raises and recieve better retirement and better
bennies than any standard citizen could hope to get. Bet they aren't counting on social security.
Ideas people, that's where we kick the lefts butt all the time, the arena of ideas. We need to start networking and planning and find a way to grab their attention FAST!

Nothing can now be believed which is seen
in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes
suspicious by being put into that polluted
vehicle! Thomas Jefferson

Has anyone else seen Senator Graham's speech to La Raza on youtube. This is quite eye opening.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sEfrFoAIn4

 
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