Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa
Mea Maxima freakin culpa
By streiff Posted in Congress — Comments (52) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
From Politico:
Sen. Sam Brownback and Rep. Stephen I. Cohen are proposing two of the most sweeping apologies in American history.
Cohen, a Tennessee Democrat, has introduced a resolution apologizing for all of the wrongs suffered by blacks at the hands of the U.S. government, especially slavery and segregation. And Brownback, a Kansas Republican, is pushing a measure offering "an apology to all native peoples" for hundreds of years of government hostility and oppression.
How about someone offering a one-time omnibus “Sorry our ancestors kicked your ancestors around” resolution? Let everyone who has been wronged sign up. Criminey, let’s get this over with because it is really beginning to resemble a boil on the butt.
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...pay reparations to myself. And I'd encourage all Americans to do the same.
I am so totally in support of this. As a Pole, my people have been persecuted and conquered and occupied and slaughtered and made the butt of jokes and worked to death so many times throughout history that I'm sure just about everyone in the Western world owes me an apology. The Russians, the Germans, the French, the British, the Italians -- even the Americans -- owe me and my family a gigantic, public act of contrition for enslaving us and allowing us to be enslaved, for working millions of people to an early grave, or bottling them up in concentration camps, or executing them outright for helping the Jews or opposing their evil empires, and for raping our land and my people, especially all throughout the early 20th century.
So pony up, people. You can contact me through the email form, and I have a PayPal account. Get moving. I'm a minority.
[Aside: Actual true story: in my hometown here in Massachusetts, we own an undeveloped piece of property on our lake, and one of our "neighbors" is a Russian expat. Two months ago my mother dropped by to have a look around the property, just making sure that everything was OK, and discovered that our "neighbor" was throwing some of his bulk trash onto our land instead of disposing of it properly. So she walked up to their front door and had a few words with him. He became indignant, and the encounter started to develop into a real ethnic slugfest. My mother, who is known for her sharp tongue, and after being insulted and told he wouldn't remove the trash, said: "You know, the Russians are great at polluting other people's land" to which he responded, "I wish I could bring a few million of them over here to kill the rest of the Poles." Nice fella, huh?]
He’s made a point of sponsoring this resolution for the :
Brownback, who is seeking the GOP presidential nomination, has offered his American Indian resolution in the last two Congresses, and it was approved by the Senate Indian Affairs Committee in 2005. But it has never been adopted by the full Senate. His co-sponsors this time are Sens. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.), Mike Crapo (R-Idaho), Chris Dodd (D-Conn.), Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii) and Mary L. Landrieu (D-La.).
If this is what he spends his time on in Congress, then maybe some people were a little too quick to criticize him for missing nearly half of the votes in January ;)
I'm not a South Park Republican, I'm a King of the Hill libertarian.
Sorry Leon, but that's one less candidate I have to consider.
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See the Academy
This is silliness on Brownback's part, when there are so many real problems, right now, that we need our leaders to address.
The War on Terror is the priority. But the very next item on the list is entitlement reform. I want leaders with the guts to confront the coming bankruptcy of our entire economy due to crushingly huge medical and retirement entitlements when the Boomers retire. Someone has to tell these soon-to-be retirees that they're not going to be getting what they were promised. Or, they need to level with the younger workers and admit that they intend to raise taxes exponentially to cover the costs of these programs. No one has had the political guts to do it yet, but it simply has to be done. My generation will go into violent rebellion if they try to raise our taxes to the level it would take to sustain the retirement of the Boomers. (I'm 37, and I already know quite well that I will get nothing of my contributions back when I retire.)
Sorry to wander off-topic there, but the War on Terror and the coming collapse of the entitlement system (or massive tax hike on the young) are just two examples of why this apology/reparations business is just not on the list of priorities for any of our leaders, much less our presidential hopefuls! Shame on Brownback for wasting his energy, time, and influence on this. Is he trying to shake the "racist" label he's been getting from libs over his stance on immigration? Feh.
I'm a little afraid of you, to be perfectly honest. I think it shows a clear focus of wanting to mend things WITHIN in our country as opposed to screwing around in the countries of others. I'd think we'd all be down with that. I don't honestly want to hear more about what he'd do in the war on terror RIGHT NOW. We all know things will change before the '08 election. What sense does it make to discuss what he'll do 2 years from now when things are going to change? Those are the kind of issues that are better dealt with closer to primaries.
"I'm just beginning...The pen's in my hand...Ending unplanned"
That's all it takes to sway my vote for someone who's not even breaking into double digits on any large-scale straw polling that I know of. Last time I checked, we have 11 candidates and probably more to consider. So, yes, all the ones who can't quickly show me why they stand out from the crowd (in a good way) are at risk of being bumped from my list very early on.
I confess that I exaggerated a bit, though. I'm actually still open to Brownback showing me why he deserves my support. I just won't be actively trying to find out more about Brownback on my own in the near future, which I probably would have gotten to at some point if he seemed able to hold on over the next few months. I'm pretty strongly for Newt, but if Newt doesn't run, I'll still be listening to the others. I think Giuliani's going to be our candidate, but he's going to want a strong conservative to balance him out in voter's eyes. I won't be surprised if we still end up seeing someone like Brownback on the ticket after all.
Also, you mentioned liking Brownback's focus on mending things within our own country instead of "screwing around in the countries of others." First, since when are the Indians a problem within our country? I guess you and Brownback know something I don't about Indians rioting in the streets and staging terrorist attacks because of the mistreatment of their ancestors. Second, we "screw around in the countries of others" because they came here and screwed with us first, remember?
Is exactly NOT what apologetic legislation such as this is going to accomplish. In fact, it is the next step in Increasing the entitlement problem. When/if this is passed, you will see, in our lifetimes, the Federal government paying retroactive reparations.
There are those who look on Dresden and Tokyo and Hiroshima as some of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by man. I look on them and thank the perpetrators for saving millions.
I could probably still vote for him in the general, but he's not getting my primary vote.
Run like Reagan!
Over one non-binding resolution, which does not include or lead to reparations? That's a pretty reasoned and justified response, I guess. It's clearly more serious than supporting legalized abortion, affirmative action, CFR, or any number of other things.
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[F]or by the fundamental law of Nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred...
-John Locke
In my case, I'm wary of a guy who is wasting time on non-binding resolutions looking for reasons to 'apologize' on behalf of Americans.
Run like Reagan!
That this is the third or fourth time he's submitted this resolution, right? How much "time" do you think it's absorbing?
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[F]or by the fundamental law of Nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred...
-John Locke
That rewriting history to make the encounters between the US and the indians, to be a one-sided fight that we need to apologize for, is a long-standing pet issue of his, really doesn't help.
But hey, I still put him above all the top names in the field. So unless Hunter or Gingrich makes a move, I'm still not going to cry if Brownback wins this thing.
Run like Reagan!
Even if it's not taking up much legislative time, it's taking up some of Brownback's time in the spotlight as a presidential hopeful. I'm sure he has lots of important ideas and cares deeply about lots of important issues, but what are we spending some of our relatively rare Brownback time talking about here? This insignificant resolution.
We have, what, 11 hopefuls and counting in the Republican primary race? We're going to start crossing some off our list sooner rather than later, so yeah one small thing like this can have an impact for those candidates who are not making it into the top three.
Truthfully, Brownback hadn't really made it onto my radar yet. I'm not ruling out that he might make it back onto my list of possibilities at some point. But not if he does any more of this kind of thing.
It just shows that he's willing to waste legislative time and political capital on something that just isn't very important and doesn't do a darn thing to move the country forward in any tangible way. Would he do the same as president? As a candidate, he has the opportunity--perhaps even the obligation--to help shape the public debate by putting forward his agenda and ideas. Is this really a high priority for him? It must be for him to put his name on it and spend his time and energy promoting it. That's not good--it makes me wonder if he understands the real issues facing us (I'm pretty sure he does understand the big issues quite well, but spending time on this nonsense doesn't do anything to convince the public of that.)
Regardless, you're right that abortion, affirmative action, CFR, and any number of things are far more important. That's why I'm put off by this nonbinding resolution thing. Why isn't Brownback working on something important? He's in the stage of the election when he's supposed to be trying to get name recognition and establish why he has a broad-based appeal that we can believe will get him elected. This resolution will appeal to or benefit one tiny segment of the population; I think American Indians are less than 4% of the population now, correct? There are quite simply bigger fish to fry, and I want the presidential candidates to tell me how we're going tackle the big issues if they become president! Brownback's generally a good conservative, but he's sidetracking his own message by espousing this touchy-feely nonbinding resolution stuff. Less talking and apologizing and singing of kumbayah, please. We've got stuff to do.
http://www.redstate.com/blogs/leon_h_wolf/2007/mar/06/brownbacks_apology...
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[F]or by the fundamental law of Nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred...
-John Locke
I'll look into it. Thanks.
Like I said, Brownback hadn't yet made it onto my radar, so I admit I don't know much about him except that he's generally considered to be a solid conservative. He needs to keep in mind, though, that anything he says, does, or sponsors is more likely to make it to the news now that he's a candidate. I know Brownback's fairly conservative, but I don't know much about where he stands specifically on many issues. But now I know that he thinks we need to apologize to the Indians for things that happened centuries ago. It's just not a winner for me.
It is essential to stand up for the point of view that history happens, and nothing in the historical past is the fault of those now living. Sons shall not pay for the sins of their fathers.
If a politician wants to denounce the attitudes of the past, that's great. If he wants to apologize, on behalf of his ancestors, for things his own ancestors did, he's on shakier ground, but I can understand it.
But his claim to speak on my behalf, and my ancestors' behalf, just because our melanin levels are similar is unacceptable.
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See the Academy
Nicely said. I think that's what's rankling me about this. I just can't wrap my mind around feeling guilty for what my ancestors did. It doesn't make any sense at all to me. I also can't believe that an apology will change anything for the descendents of those who were mistreated in the distant past.
What about reparations to the Irish? We had to suffer through NINA (No Irish Need Apply) for government and private employment. There was active discrimination both in practice and in law against people from the Emerald Isle, especially Irish Catholics. The only reason Irish have any clout in this country at all is because we reproduce like rabbits, isn't it? And we're all just slovenly drunks who never knew a whiskey or a beer we didn't like! Illiterate and belligerent, too!
The fact that I am 1/4 Irish, never had to face any of this injustice myself, never had alcohol (no, I am in my mid-20s) and am far too young to even remember any of this when it was going on is irrelevant! I should get reparations, dammit! I'm Irish!
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock."
--Thomas Jefferson
German-Americans suffered a backlash during World War II, being forced to downplay (or deny) their heritage to continue to exist in polite society, some having to change their names...
But, like the Irish, we Germans look like all the other Europeans, so the guilt isn't the same on the consciences of members of Congress.
"I could explain, but that would be very long, very convoluted, and make you look very stupid. Nobody wants that... except maybe me."
We beat them for the League Championship. Do I have to apologize to them? (Actually, I hope they still haven't gotten over it)
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
What about Norwegians? We have to put up with lefty has-been writer Garrison Keillor and his "Norwegian Bachelor Farmer" jokes.
...Mr. Keillor is of Scottish heritage. I find it fascinating that he nonetheless understands and can explicate the Lutheran and Scandinavian mind like few others, plus I rather enjoy the jokes.
He grew up in Minnesota. I lived there for a while when young, too. Some of the early humor was quite insightful, especially the early stuff. Later he became the small town boy (Anoka, MN, was not a suburb of Mpls back then) who went to the Big City and then looked back in a condescending manner on the "quaint" folk he once knew.
What about overweight people? They've been discriminated against forever! Lost job opportunities alone should amount to gigantic reparations, yes? And fat people are the last group against whom it is still considered acceptable to discriminate, make mean jokes, openly criticize, and call names--that's worth some guilt money, isn't it? Oh, and obesity runs in families, too. So anyone who is a normal weight but had/has many obese family members can cash in as well! It's a freaking gold mine!
This is the best one because, though a person can't turn himself black or Indian at will, one could become overweight in order to jump on the gravy train (no pun intended). I think we could bleed the nation's coffers dry long before the Boomers get a chance to do it through Medicare and Social Security.
So, since I am a fat Norwegian will I get two apologies or do two apologies make one "tough luck". This is too confusing. I went to school in the dark ages -- before folks learned how to calculate everything according to identity politics.
And of course, the nation owes an apology to the Mormons for persecuting them so much that they had to settle in Utah. I will await Mormon Harry Reid's resolution on that. Unless he thinks it would help out fellow Mormon Romney.
Lets not forget the witches. We need to apologize to the ancestors of the people who were put on trial and persecuted in Salem. We can have a modern day witch like Hillary draft the resolution apologizing for those colonial atrocities.
The witches property was forfeit.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
There's an old Southern saying, if your hair's nappy, who's your pappie?
My hair is fairly curly and as they say never know what's in the wood pile. But I guess I am white, still, can I take a test and get part of Senator Brownback's apology?
Maybe we can borrow the South African pencil test?
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Dennis Miller for President...no more wimps!
DAH
Weren't you on the defending SideShow Ann's freedom of speech bandwagon a short while ago?
How about my freedom of speech, especially when I am making jokes about myself and not someone else? I will admit that the joke has another side, the side which points how silly it would be to apologize to one racial group, when it's hard to tell what racial a person's ancistery really is. Ask the descendants of Sally Hemming what race they are.
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Dennis Miller for President...no more wimps!
How about an apology to the industrious and freedom loving citizens of this Republic, from the federal government, for the loss of liberty, and the poverty caused by the creation, and propagation of our decades old welfare state.
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
How about us left handers? We have to suffer through all kinds of indignities and have since early childhood - scissors, desks, and any of you right handers ever try and write in a 3 ring binder with your left hand???). And it never ends. Try firing an M-16 lefthanded and see how much fun that is (ok, that one doesn't apply to me because for some strange reason I shoot and bat righty). Check out the selection for left handed baseball gloves.
Everything in the world is oriented for right handers so we are the only minority that gets discriminated against everywhere on the globe. Talk about diaspora - we have no home.
Somebody owes me some big chunk of change.
Fortuna Favet Fortibus
I'll put a quarter in it. Good training to correct your left handed disability.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Literally. And I do it despite being right-handed because I am left-eye dominant and literally can't hit the broad side of a barn at 60 yards right-handed.
As an aside: Considering as you fire and bat right-handed, I would guess that you are right-eye dominant.
There are those who look on Dresden and Tokyo and Hiroshima as some of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by man. I look on them and thank the perpetrators for saving millions.
I suggest we apologize to the nations of Germany, Italy and Japan for throwing out their Nazi and fascist regimes after World War II. It was wrong of us to intefere in their internal affairs.
I would like to offer apologies to Al Capone and all of the businessmen who we unfairly went after in the 20's and 30's by abusing their constitutional rights through IRS vendettas. They had free markets in Booze and women, and we all know government should have kept its hands off American Business.
I would like to apologize to the people of Puerto Rico for never giving them their independence. Reparations are on the way!
And to Russia for swindling them out of Alaska....
I could list more, but you get it. Brownback and Cohen are disengenuous panderers at best. Shame on them both.
To apologize on behalf of some of my ancestors for stealing the land, murdering, going to war with, enslaving and just generally being prejudiced against my other ancestors.
I would also like to take this moment to apologize on behalf of those latter mentioned ancestors for raping, murdering, going to war with, scalping and getting Affirmative Action passed as a form of what is currently called "reverse-racism" against the formerly mentioned ancestors.
There are those who look on Dresden and Tokyo and Hiroshima as some of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by man. I look on them and thank the perpetrators for saving millions.
Your compassion with yourself is admirable.
I should take the time now to apologize on behalf of my ancestors in what is now Germany for making war against my ancestors in what is now France. And my French forbears, too, have some serious apologizing to do for making war against my English ones, who have simply got to make it right with my Irish and Scottish progenitors.
And whoever tricked them all into thinking that Maine would be a good spot to settle must have been an early Global Warming adopter.
My Norwegian ancestors will not apologize, because they are in Valhalla guzzling meade.
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See the Academy
In efforts such as these. Were I to go nationality by nationality and race by race and toss in sex and sexuality of all my ancestors, I'd be here for weeks apologizing to myself...
There are those who look on Dresden and Tokyo and Hiroshima as some of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by man. I look on them and thank the perpetrators for saving millions.
OK all you whiners upthread, you already have gotten reparations as follows:
Indians got casinos. Check
Blacks got the NBA and MoTown. Check
Norwegians got chainsaws. Check
Irish got 12 packs. Check
Polish got accordians. Check
Germans got soap. Check
French got bleach. Check
Brits got flouride toothpaste. Check
Overweight people got supersized combo meals. Check
Mormons got Utah. Check
Witches got Hillary. Check
Lefthanded People got the turn signal on the left. Check
Al Capone got Geraldo to open his safe. Check
Puerto Ricans got girls with bottles of wine. Check
Russia got Anna Kournikova. Double Check.
Did I miss anyone?
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
the Indians is comparable to every other kind of injustice that was ever perpertrated. I may not be an expert on the issue, but I do not recall any Irish people being massarcarred by the United States. Or maybe you can clue me in on the date of the Scottish trail of tears within The United States.
Also you all seem to miss the point that these are not apologies from the race of white people to Indians. It is an apology for the actions of the Government. So arguing about what one race did to another race and back and forth is pointless- its not what the resolution is addressing. The government arguably is the same organization it was when they were abusing the Indians. This is not a matter of individually feeling guilty, it is a matter of a corporation saying we recognize that this is bad. This measure serves a good purpose because it solidies that we do not allow the same injustices of the past.
I do not find this matter to be of utmost importance, but I do not think it is a nagative for Brownback. The Native Americans are still suffering from what we did to their people. I think that this is pretty clear if you just take a look at the poverty they dwell in. I don't believe in reparation payments I believe that we need to find a way to help them off of relying on Government subsidy.
Brownback's basic message seems to be the value of all life. Whether Prisoners, Unborn, Africans, or Native Americans. While this resolution may not be of the most pressing matter it does help to underscore these principles, which I would be excited to see the Republicans come back to.
That:
A) This is a serious thread
and More importantly that:
B) What happened to the American Indians was any different from what happened to any other conquered civilization in history. It was terrible even by the standards of the day, but it was nothing new. For examples, look at what the English did to the Scots Twice and the Irish innumerable times. Or how about what Rome or Persia or the Mongols did to everyone they conquered? Or the American Indians did to each other time and again?
Had you learned any actual history rather than the alternate history where America is the greatest force of Evil in the world, you would know all this.
There are those who look on Dresden and Tokyo and Hiroshima as some of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by man. I look on them and thank the perpetrators for saving millions.
I remember a time when senators used to introduce and debate bills that were actually of substance, not merely whether they agree with the president or whether our ancestors were wrong.
Unfortunately, rather than put the matter to bed, a bill apologizing for the wrongs of our ancestors would likely do the exact opposite. Indeed, such would likely breath new life into struggling extortionists such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.