Redstate

The whole point that we should all take from this controversy; look at the source. The Rutgers girls should have figured out ways to publicly ridicule Imus, the way he does to so many, instead of whining about hurt feelings. Teach your daughter to love and respect herself, and not worry about the opinions of losers. The only way words can hurt us, is if we let them.

Al Sharpton and Jackson appeals to the worst in people, not the best.

This is a great line:

"As much as I like the former Congressman, his comments are as much a "self-victimization" as those of Sharpton's when this whole thing blew up in the first place."

Rosie's 15 minutes on the view are almost up.

I have no use for Imus, I thought all along he was a buffoon and not worth listening to. Rosie, same thought but what she spouts is lies, so there is a different problem with her -- the sponsors should on their own take her down.

But the real problem is the well from which all this springs ... hip-hop rap music. If you want to attack anything, this is a target rich environment that we all would be better off without.

So rather than sit back, direct fire at the real threat to society, the coarsening of the air waves and culture by gutter talk coming from the hip-hop rappers. What they sing should be offensive to all women.

First up, what say you Mrs. Bill Clinton? Give back the 800 large.

Do it for the children.

for not having paid enough attention to how much I LIKE yelling and calling names at the other side...and I forgive you for missing the point of this post...which was NOT to suggest any such thing as tucking tail and running.

When the Conservatives start reacting to these things with "here's what we will DO about this so as to prevent it from happening again" instead of "oh yeah? well, you shoulda heard what HE/SHE said about HIM/HER"...then we may start regaining a little trust and confidence from the constituents out there that are sick and tired of all the childish bickering and name calling.

It feels good, but nothing is getting done around here for those of us who remember that we actually PAY these clowns to act like children and NOT govern.

haystack's 12th:
Conservatives (and Presidential Candidates especially) shall offer no aid and comfort to the opposition in times of legislative conflict (and ensuing political campaigns).

Doesn't anyone think that was kind of weird? Usually when their own says something obnoxious, they have a million reasons why it is different than when a conservative says something half as offensive. Any thoughts?

Libs. realized that this was a moment to both enforce their orthodoxy and to protect Al and Jesse, taking one of their own as a victim. It's so perfect!

I too am suspicious of this gratuitous sacking of a well placed and cleverly credentialled (he's a card carrying "Republican") left-wing mouthpiece.

I believe this is just another Trojan Horse attempt to attack talk radio. Didn't I already see the Woman's Black Congressional Caucus signing some initiative to that effect on TV?

Next it will be Rush, Savage, Reagan, et al.

In future, Freedom of Speech will be for "protected classes" only.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --- John Adams

where was the "furor" really? Jesse Jackson marching with 50 people outside of NBC's offices in Chicago? 50 people and a guy gets fired? Well, hell's bells, we can get fifty people together... something really doesn't add up here.

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
Starbucks: Coffee, good. Cups, bad, but
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

During the happy hour, you can decide on the topic of irritation, make your signs, then alert the press. You could do it weekely. And I bet you would not have to pay anyone to participate.

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
Starbucks: Coffee, good. Cups, bad, but
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

when you can't blackmail the advertisers. All you can do it boycott, and that would only serve to eliminate your gathering place and half price drinks! Darn! We're just going to have to break down and buy one of those "How to be a Radical Rabblerouser" books!

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
Starbucks: Coffee, good. Cups, bad, but
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

Or is this just another one of your stupid drive-bys?
____
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.

don't give me that sophmoric bull. We're talking about cultural realities here. Do you realize that laws of the United States are replete with references to "protected classes," usually meaning some branch of the PC crowd. Have you forgotten about "hate crimes"? What starts in the PC culture has a way of, especially with gangs of activist federal judges at large, becoming law.

Look at the Duke Lacrosse team players who were brought up on spurious race-based charges. If the stripper had been white, this case would not have lasted two days.

Actions have consequences, sometimes unintended, often pre-meditated and malicious.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --- John Adams

Sorry about the "sophomoric bull" crack. Sometimes I get carried away. Technically, you're absolutely right. But libs never let legality interfere with reality and besides, once a story gets into the popular press, perception is reality.

Demanding that public funds not be used to subsidise the insulting "piss Christ" display was not a 1st Amendment issue either, but that's the way the Left spun it and thereby garnered great PR on their take of the "issue."

So, of course, what we're talking about is publicly acceptable speech and the double standard with which it is divined by socialist adcademics, the media, and the usual suspects.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --- John Adams

I'm glad you backed away from our original post, because Adam C was right, this isn't a first amendment issue.

Neither was the issue of public funding for the arts, but now you can feel good about yourself because you can correctly analyze the Imus issue whereas your opponents in the funded-arts issue could not do the same and resorted to spin. I understand the frustration with seeing a poor argument gain traction, but the only positive reaction is lodging a better argument next time - and on that subject, the credibility gained from taking a consistent stand on such issues is why it's even more important that you also accurately identify the Imus issue as non-1st amendment related.

the double standard with which it is divined by socialist adcademics, the media, and the usual suspects

These citizens did indeed express their opinions but don't let it escape you that the decision to take any action was made by advertisers and broadcasters without any government intervention whatsoever.

Sure, your point is well taken. However, I believe you missed the point of my amended post (and, indeed, the original as well.) We're not in a courtroom here. Standards of proof need not be met or even made. I'm talking about the zeitgeist and the very real dangers it augurs for decent people.

Please don't invoke Godwin's Law, but I am reading a very serious and detailed history of the events leading up to WWII. It is amazaing how quickly actions which were considered barbaric by most people became law overnight.

Don't kid yourself that it can't happen here. Just in my own short life the putrid idea of hate crimes has become law. In other words, some people are considered more valuable by the government because a greater penalty is attached to harming them. This very law came about due to the phenomenon you dismiss so lightly as "spin," and in direct contravention to the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment (more on that later.)

And have conservatives ever gotten credibility from being consistent? We believe our opinions are correct or we wouldn't hold them. Do you think the Left has gained so much power in the last forty years because their platform is "consistent?" Hardly.

--These citizens did indeed express their opinions but don't let it escape you that the decision to take any action was made by advertisers and broadcasters without any government intervention whatsoever.--

And just why did advertisers & broadcasters take that action? Because socialist adcademics, the media, and the usual suspects used a double standard to divine (convince people) that it was unacceptable public speech. In other words, the PC culture told them so. I hear Christians & conservatives mocked and maligned everyday and no one so much as grunts in opposition. And why is that? Because the PC culture says it's O.K.

BTW, I don't condone Imus' remarks, I hardly know who he is. However, I do know he was hired as a "shock jock." I realize market forces are in play, but we're talking about standards of common decency here. So why are these remarks too shocking for Imus to utter and yet rappers can blast them across the airwavws with impunity? That's right, bcause the PC culture told us so (spin).

I'm simply saying it's time to take back our culture. And it will be done in the world of popular opinion & spin, not by a bunch of hoary headed conservatives reading the Bill of Rights out loud.

Which amendment contains the right to an abortion? Or forced busing? Prison law libraries? Racial spoils? Gay marriage? Gun licenses? No prayer in schools? No religion in the public square? Income taxes? Wetlands? etc.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --- John Adams

should read: Which amendment in the Bill of Rights...

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --- John Adams

No need to be sorry, it's a long and thoughtful response, thanks.

I'm talking about the zeitgeist and the very real dangers it augurs for decent people.

To which I respond that we are the zeitgeist. Or, at the very minimum, we are part of it. To that extent what generally bothers me about this kind of "we have something to fear from this 'scary' subsegment that spoke so loudly and sort-of-kind-of 'forced' some other people to take some action" sentiment is that it implies that the scary subsegment has more power or that they won, whereas the more accurate understanding in most of these cases and Imus in particular is that no one who particularly felt like Imus shouldn't be fired could apparently be bothered to take up that cause and lobby in opposition. I'm sure if they had, they would have been given ample press and their side of the argument would have been heard by CBS and MSNBC as well. So where were they? Why didn't that group speak up and help shape the zeitgeist?

In the battle for opinion, the group that vocally and I might add, fearlessly, expresses their position tends to have the greater success. The group that sits quietly and only complains about what the other group is doing ("gosh why are they pressuring people, why are they criticizing, why are they advocating") really hasn't advanced any cause other than to question motives, whereas they should have been saying, no, this is the way to properly understand what happened, and how to evaluate it, and how to go forward from here.

I guess the best way to illustrate what I'm describing is an NBA player who's called for a foul complaining to the official that the foul was a bad call because the other player just really wants to win a whole lot and will do anything to prevail, when instead he ought to be asserting there there is a better call (no foul) that the official should be making in light of the facts and evidence.

And have conservatives ever gotten credibility from being consistent?

I think they have. They've also blown some by being inconsistent. I think the same is generally true of liberals, afterall look at how some are hammering Congress for not trying to end the war as hard as they claimed they would (or at least as hard as their supporters inferred that they would). On the other hand they're remarkably consistent when it comes to looking to the government as the best possible solution to almost every problem.

And just why did advertisers & broadcasters take that action? Because socialist adcademics, the media, and the usual suspects used a double standard to divine (convince people) that it was unacceptable public speech.

Again, it's equally true to say that they took that action because they didn't hear any opposing viewpoints making an effective case that the speech did not warrant termination.

I hear Christians & conservatives mocked and maligned everyday and no one so much as grunts in opposition.

They need to speak up, but to be honest I think you're inaccurate here, because from what I can see they are speaking up quite frequently. A recent successful example was the pressure they applied that resulted in the termination of the television show, "The Book of Daniel":

[cite] The American Family Association (AFA) says that NBC’s decision to pull “The Book of Daniel” shows the power of the pocketbook.
<...>
“This shows the average American that he doesn’t have to simply sit back and take the trash being offered on TV, but he can get involved and fight back with his pocketbook,” Wildmon said. “We want to thank the 678,394 individuals who sent emails to NBC and the thousands who called and emailed their local affiliates.”

[cite] NBC's move was lauded by the Tupelo, Miss.-based American Family Association, which had condemned the show as a sign of what it called the broadcaster's "anti-Christian bigotry."

The group, along with James Dobson's Focus on the Family, asked supporters to lobby their local NBC affiliates to refuse to carry it. In an article posted on its Web site, the AFA credited viewer complaints for forcing the network's hand.

[cite] I challenged the listeners to KSLR Radio here in San Antonio, Texas, to picket WOAI-TV4, our local NBC affiliate. Sixty Christians stood with me holding signs that said, “WOAI-TV attacks Christians,” “God is grieved,” “WOAI-TV makes Jesus sad” and “Read the REAL book of Daniel.” Our local NBC and Fox affiliates, as well as the San Antonio Express-News and The Texas Observer, covered our protest.

Plus, my four-day on-air focus generated 600 e-mails and 100 phone calls of complaint to the San Antonio NBC affiliate before the program initially aired.
<...>
The next step for Christians is to target the national advertisers who bought ad time for pennies on the dollar. The list includes: Walt Disney World, Burlington Coat Factory, Icy Hot Sleeve (Chattel), Just for Men, H&R Block, Gold Bond Ultimate (Chattel), and Charter Digital.

I'm simply saying it's time to take back our culture. And it will be done in the world of popular opinion & spin

I definitely agree with this. Crying and whining about it after the fact isn't going to do a whole lot. People who felt strongly that CBS and MSNBC should have retained Imus had a chance to voice their opinion loudly and fearlessly and they failed to do so. I'm all for people who are passionate about their beliefs to avail themselves of their right to publicly advocate them, but I would join any effort to foil groups that go beyond that and try to leverage the government itself to silence other citizens or otherwise constrain their free speech rights.

I really don't see this as a slippery slope, there's a very clear, well defined line between proper public advocacy and petitioning companies and advertisers to respond and improper use of government to enforce and coerce and restrict the decisions of companies and advertisers (and other citizens). IMO the actions of Sharpton and any other persons who lobbied CBS and MSNBC re: Imus are no different that the actions taken by the AFA and Focus on the Family who lobbied NBC re: The Book of Daniel. And I don't find either of those efforts to be un-American, risable as "censorship", or worthy of any other condemnation - although people are/were certainly free to take and advocate differing positions.

Whatever parties and politicians can consistently hold that line in similar situations will get my applause.

we'll just have to disagree. I do indeed see a slippery slope. Maybe when the Nameless Nine decide that Al & Co. have a right to some folks' bank accounts you'll understand. The spin is that some folks owe "reparations" and pressure for it has not and will not go away. I hear Jesse is doing a land office business with it on the corporate level (see Kenneth Timmerman's "Shakedown").

Besides, I agree with Kowalski and others that the Imus firing was simply a distraction from the left's huge loss of face in the Duke case. Imus is a leftist mouthpiece after all.

And as I said, the media, et al, are in copmplete colusion with all this. Think we'll hear anymore about the Duke 88? Maybe an apology? I won't hold my breath...

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --- John Adams

Think we'll hear anymore about the Duke 88? Maybe an apology? I won't hold my breath...

Yes, don't hold your breath - instead, expel it as you advocate loudly and fearlessly for what you think should happen. Write a posting and organize a letter writing campaign among RedState visitors directed at the Duke 88. Contact the ACLJ to try and organize or participate in an effort to have Nifong disbarred and/or prosecuted. Call into Rush Limbaugh and see if you can express your opinion as to what should happen next re: Imus/Sharpton to his audience, build some critical mass, apply some pressure, etc etc.

Otherwise you're just stuck with complaining about how hard the other guys are trying to win. Everyone empathizes you, I'm sure, but you can't expect actual positive results from only doing that.

independently wealthy or work for a think tank or something. My schedule starts at 4am and goes to 5 or 6pm on many days. After I get home from my two jobs, I read the Conservative Chronicle and the Bible, (not in that order) and I'm usually exhausted by bedtime at 7:30pm. On week-ends it's honey-do lists, church and some minor R&R.

However, I do support Frontpagemag.com, am a dues paying member of David Horowitz' Freedom Center, am a card carrying member of the NRA and support the local Republican Men's Club. I do write letters to the newspaper, post on Redstate, TCS and Frontpagemag, participate in boycotts, volunteer at the Choose Life Center, support the Morale, Welfare & Recreation unit for soldiers at the nearby Army Post, am a lifelong member of the American Legion and read history regularly.

And in my spare time, I sometimes get into lively threads about PC's devastating impact on our society. Maybe I'm just not a good time manager...

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --- John Adams

I should have been clearer, I use "you" a lot in a figurative sense, I didnt mean to necessarily single you out as being complacent. I think it's great you're involved in all those ways.

But the point remains as to the need for citizens who care about this issue or others like it to really get out there and fight outspoken public advocacy with outspoken public advocacy. I know we can't all be Al Sharpton or James Dobson, but those people listen to their organizations, who listen to their members, who listen to or are people like you and me. In the same way that people who wanted The Book of Daniel to remain on the air failed to mount a substantial advocacy persuade NBC, those people that wanted Don Imus to retain his job also failed to mount a substantial advocacy enough to persuade CBS/MSNBC to keep him.

I think raising the spectre of enforced reparations or a gloomy PC future because such groups sometimes succeed in bringing about actions by advertisers and companies is a bit much. If anything, it should be reassuring to know that we can all avail ourselves of the same thing, if we make the attempt and if our cause is persuasive enough to draw the support of the critical mass.

reasonable discourse on this matter. You make several very interesting points.

I must say, however, that coerced reparations are hardly spectral. The Jesse hit-squad has extorted billions from companies trying to avoid bad press, as retailed chapter and verse in the Timmerman book I mentioned.

My hope is that, eventually, a critical mass will simply grow tired of the grievence-mongering and simply stop paying attention to it. Especially with Hispanics quickly surpassing them as the most populous minority.

Your call to action is heartening and when (if) I am able to retire, look out advocacy groups, here I come!

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --- John Adams

.

Game,

Take Michael Savage, throw in some Al Frankin, maybe a dash of Rush, you got you an Imus. The darling of the Left, why even Senator Chris Dodd announcing his Presidential run on the show. Joe Lieberman was also a regular in the last campaign season.

Imus also came down very hard in Harold Ford's side over the "Call Me" advertisement in the Tenn Senator race last year. Ford has been MIA during this kerfuffle, much to Imus disgust.

_______________________________
Dennis Miller for President...no more wimps!

hear.

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
Starbucks: Coffee, good. Cups, bad, but
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

game,

I go out of my way to listen to lefties when I can stand it. Ed Shultz is pretty interesting at, Imus was sort of interesting in a car wreck sort of way.

In my book it's important to get out of the Right side's echo chamber at times and see what the point they are making. On very rare occasions, they do have a point.

_______________________________
Dennis Miller for President...no more wimps!

I have heard lefties for years. They teach me nothing. There a few, VERY few, good ones. Broder at times....I'm thinking

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
Starbucks: Coffee, good. Cups, bad, but
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

Game

You have a point, but are you going to tell me that listing to the echo chamber all the time does not rot your brain?

As a connoisseur of talk radio, well sort of, now the XM radio is stuck on baseball and XM175, here's my take of the offerings out there.

Hannity is pretty much "must change the station" fodder and I can't for the life of me understand why Dish moved the Fox talking head show off of the 9PM West Coast slot to put up a rerun of Hannity and the Liberal.

Ingram is pretty good, and smart.

Hugh I like but I can't get him on the radio very well.

Gibson is just dead funny and probably the next target of the Reverend Al.

Michael Reagan does not impress me, but maybe he's an acquired taste.

Tony Snow on his short lived show was about my favorite. Smart, not afraid of pointing out where the White House was getting it wrong.

I've got about an hour and half in the car every day so get to dial around quite a bit, but don't really listen for long periods of time.

_______________________________
Dennis Miller for President...no more wimps!

My mind is not rotting from not listening to libs scream

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
Starbucks: Coffee, good. Cups, bad, but
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

and that because of such we won't patronize the institution purveying it is what ?

The silent majority is far to quiet.

Every newspaper in this country tilts left and worships at the altar of political correctness. Rosie can accuse the Bush administration of any and everything without evidence or even rational consistency. 2004 was the revenge of the angry white male, 2006 trumpeted the end of the Reagan revolution. The left seeks the fairness doctrine to silence our voices.

Yes I fully support going after voices on the left. They are offensive, their views are treated as fact, and they shout down the conservative message.

They can have their freedom of speech. Just have them buy their own printing presses. When they have expended their fortunes and are part of the underclass they claim to love so much, we will hear a different tune from them.

______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

would no longer listen or buy products advertised.

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
Starbucks: Coffee, good. Cups, bad, but
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

Also had the predictable side-effect of taking the national heat off of the Gang of 88 professors and instructors at Duke who had signed their "guilty before proven guilty" statement. It was a very neat conversion, because nobody has mentioned those people recently -- everyone has been talking about Don Imus.

Why? Because keeping those people out of the media spotlight is important: they're friends of Al Sharpton and Harry Belafonte. Perish the thought that the media would start focusing on them right now. Instead it was much more convenient to take Don Imus' scalp and make everyone in the world forget about the 88 Duke professors.

In two weeks, 99.99% of the people in this country won't even remember who they were. But they will always remember Don Imus' last three words.

See how it works?

And you get an email a week or so in advance that says: "My man, forget about the Duke case. It's dead. We need to find something else, pronto" you immediately commence a witch-hunt and start looking for someone to shoot, lest you lose your credibility with the half-million lunatics who think you're God.

An explanation, speculative as it is, of any that I've heard so far. Add to the scenario that Don Imus made a big enemy of John Kerry when he told him to "stop talking and go home" over his "botched joke" about the troops in the middle of a particularly important political campaign, and add further the fact that Ted Kennedy has always been "Proud to Share This Stage with Al Sharpton" and I think it's as good a conjecture as anyone has had.

I basically think that it's not too wild guess to say that Don Imus got kicked to the curb because the Duke case wasn't going to go Sharpton's way. And Al Sharpton is a man who needs to maintain his relevance.

Everyone just go get yourself a 'matchbook ministry', like Rev. Al. Then you can say whatever you want, and nobody can hold you accountable.:)

And his joke was off-color and dumb, but he didn't realize just how dumb it was. Imus got hammered not because the First Amendment doesn't protect him, and not because his joke wasn't forgiveable, especially if the Rutgers team had taken it up on their own.

You're seeming to forget the fact that Jesse Jackson held protests in Chicago as a result of Imus' unfortunate attempt at bad humor. Must be the first time in more than a million Imus jokes that he decided to do that.

It was the timing, and it had everything to do with the Duke case coming to an end that wasn't favorable to Sharpton, IMHO. A trapdoor opened underneath Imus' feet that he didn't even realize was there. Well, tough luck for him. Now Joe Biden is going to have to find someone more respectable to give him free airtime. Maybe Al Franken will make a radio comeback.

... the White House Press Secretary should invite Rosie O'Donnell to the White House Press Room to stand before the podium and expound on her views about President Bush planning or letting 9/11 happen.

... just to show how much respect we all have her First Amendment right to free speech.

:-)

George W. Bush: He's A Folder ... Not A Fighter.

The President should invite her to the press conference and let her stand up in front of David Gregory and Helen Thomas and David Corn and answer some questions -- as long as she promises to stick to the blue streak she's been talking all along. I'd love to see it. It'll be a great victory for wyymn everywhere.

Seriously, it would simultaneously upstage Barbara Walters and make Joy Bizarre twist with envy, and I think Rosie would do the world proud facing the cameras and questions.

Note to the White House: Let her speak! Get her up there on the podium!

Mindless retribution is not the wise or proper response to idiocy. Rosie has more than enough idiocy of her own to go around.

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
Starbucks: Coffee, good. Cups, bad, but
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson