Redstate

Sorry to break this to you, but the first lawsuit by a campaign in FL2K was in fact by the Bush campaign.

http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/us/election/election2000c.html#siegel

As for whining and stomping of feet, please recall the events of 11/19/2000 at the Miami-Dade polling headquarters, where outright physical intimidation (The "Brooks Brothers Riot") forced a halt to the recount. True, "It's not faaaair" wasn't included in any of the reportage, but "Let us in!" and "Stop the fraud!" were. Pretty close by comparison if you ask me.

My point? You reap what you sow. Sending goons from the RNC to Miami to intimidate people is no way to sustain a movement. True conservatives don't lust for power merely for power's sake, and true movements aren't built and sustained on compromised principles.

The GOP was hijacked long ago by opportunists and carpetbaggers. The party of Goldwater was bound, gagged and tossed in the trunk while the NeoCon thugs drove us around, protected by intimidation and their guises of faux religiosity.

In my mind, the 2000 election fiasco, particularly the BBR, was the coup de gras for the Contract with America. DeLay and K street were well underway, but unbridled hubris and avarice completely took over from there. Intimidation of anyone who didn't toe the line and utter blindsight in the face of the riches to be made through graft brought us here. Even Sonny Bono saw this coming.

Live with it, change it, but please have some pride and don't try to pretend we're any better Americans than anyone else.

CL

another "everyone does it", always defined as one example here and countless on the other.

Allen should follow the Thune example against Tim Johnson despite that voter fraud and fight another day. I suppose we could very well "find" a several hundred votes like in the Washington Gov race a few years ago. We could have more people protest that their "vote didn't count" in a precinct with less actual voters as in Florida 2000. But in the end it looks as foolish as the Democrats' ideas when they are honest about themselves.

Believing in Democracy would include, I believe, secure and complete elections. I'm in favor of both.

If there's reason to believe that every vote wasn't counted accurately the result should absolutely be disputed... that's democracy.

But since there's no reason to believe this election was seriously flawed, and challenging the result would be a huge PR fiasco, it's probably better to concede.

There's no reason to believe THIS election wasn't flawed...

because the Democrats won it?

I think that shows how the whole things works, that the Democrats believe that the should win, therefore any election that they lose must be a fraud.

...about letting someone else abuse you and deprive you of your rights? Graceful concessions are classy in sports contests. They are not classy in Real Life.

If *any* candidate of *any* party believes that they are the rightful winner, they should use all legal means to make sure that justice is served.

If a candidate will not fight for themselves, how can we expect them to fight for us?

If we had well-run elections without flaky technology, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But we don't, so we are.

I say count every vote, then count them again until we're sure we know who really won.

Lastly, counting votes might reveal illegal dirty tricks such as fraudlent registrations, mis-programed machines, voter intimidation, etc. Sunshine is a dis-infectant. Let's open up those ballot boxes and Let the Sunshine In (to quote "Hair").

for 20 years. If he has won, just another instance of politics making strange bedfellows- even stranger than in Webb's novels.

I think Cantor is a much more likely Senate Candidate than McDonnell. McDonnell has his sights set on teh Govenror's mansion.

I agree that Allen should fight like hell, but only to a point.

Allen should call for a recount, he is entitled because of the margin, but if the recount comes out substantially the same and there is no real, provable in a court of law evidence of misconduct that could impact the results, he should stand up like a man and admit defeat.

In elections there must be winnes and losers in the count, but if we stoop to litigating every time our candidate loses, we make sure that elections as a tool are the losers.

The Democrats did not take back Congress by litigating the issue, lets admit it, they took Congress by running a winning campaign. Our duty now is to run a campaign to win it back, not to cheapen the process and the party by being sore losers.

Does anyone here know whether the official vote totals include absentee ballots?

If there are still outstanding ballots to be counted, by all means, let's count them. If a recount is required by law, let's do it, and after that, let the man with more votes be Senator from Virginia.

But if this doesn't change the results, welcome to Virginia, Mr. Macaca.

It's an incredible fall from grace when the former head of the NRSC, who led his party to 4 new Senate seats in 2004, gets branded as a racist because he insulted one man with a camera. Before that remark, Allen was leading by 10 points in the polls. But Allen should have known better, since he knew the man had a camera, and in politics, like in a court of law, "anything you say can and will be used against you".

But we are not the party of Sore Loserman.

The bad news: Conservatism is hard to sell. The good news is that it works.

Are counted along with the rest of the votes. As soon as the polls close, the absentee ballots are unsealed and therefore are already included in the totals.

So, there is no vast pool of uncounted votes.

The only outstanding ballots are provisional ballots - those cast by people who either didn't know where to vote or other issues. There are very few of those.

Its unlikely Allen is going to find 8000 extra votes somewhere. Remember, a recount will also find additional Webb votes. Webb won. End of election.

People who turn up at the wrong place or who have forgotten their own address are going to lean to the Democrats.

Quentin Langley
Editor of http://www.quentinlangley.net

http://sbe.virginiainteractive.org/index.htm

Well it would appear that as of (Results last updated 08:36 PM Wednesday, November 8, 2006) only about 5.2% of the precincts remained to be reported and that Webb was still up by 0.3% or 8K... 52% of voters turned out - alot for a midterm. AP WIRE has called it. I do think that as Americans - we should allow such a close race to work itself out and allow for a final Official Statement from their Secretary of State. the AP should do this as well. For integrity.

I suppose it will go to Webb - and I am certain that the DEMS are there right now with all their lawyers, researching all the charges of voter intimidation, and voter disenfranchisement etc. Also, think of all the good news that the press will now begin to report. ;)

I am taken aback by how close so many races have been, - - across the county and over the past few elections. In 04' AZ was very close, as was WI and of course FLA - how does a state cast 6 million votes and end up with a difference of 250? Statistically, I don't think any counting mechanism could show an acceptable level of precision.

This year MT will also fall but by about 2500 votes with 373,000 cast.

Even where I live, a nearby little town in 04' had a tie in the mayor's race, 800 to 800. I think they flipped a coin.

Is America that divided? or are their other forces at play?

PhDWarrior wrote,

The American voter is not that bright and are swayed by narrow channel issues or self-serving issues.

That is not my experience. My experience is that some voters are not that bright, but that most of us have a pretty firm sense of right and wrong, of our own self-interest and of the inclinations and character of the people we elect. The problem is that we as a people simply disagree on what is right and wrong, what is important or honorable, what sort of politician we can trust with power, and why. None of us is wholly logical. None of us (not even a "Ph.D. warrior") has sufficient information or wisdom to discern the correct course for the nation on his own. The son of a union ironworker from Oklahoma will never see the world the same way as will the daughter of a divorced lawyer from Queens. Although no two of us are equal in intelligence, the fact that the one disagrees with the other does not inherently make either better or brighter than the other. Each of us sees the world through the prism of his own experience.

I suspect a chance that my post here could lead you to lump me with the "not that bright." Well, I can live with that, if that is what you must think, but do consider that the "not that bright" voter might have had information or insight you lacked when you cast your vote. He might have had his own reasons, and such reasons might have been rather broader than you think.

I'm not saying the GOP is Mr Clean by any stretch, but given the lies the Dems will spin and the way their comrades in the MSM support them 98% of the time, can we expect the average voter to catch how they're being manipulated?

Let me give just one example. Talk to 50 people in MO who voted for McCaskill. Ask them if they saw the Michael J. Fox commercial. Let's say 40 say yes. Ask those 40 if they believe Bush and Talent are opposed to stem cell research that could lead to all sorts of miracle cures. I bet at least 30-35 say yes. Are those people "not so bright" because they fell for the spin rather than being informed enough to know the true story?

If we had an honest press who treated both sides equally instead of in many cases trying to advance the liberal agenda, then the average person on the street would have a better chance of being well-informed on major issues. Then they are bright enough to balance out what they like about each side and decide how to cast their vote.

You MUST be kidding! I've never seen dirty politics on such a grand scale as the right tried this mid-term election. You guys tried to pull every trick in the book in order to keep your strangle hold on power!

May be a complication of leismaniasis and other parasitic diseases. Consider a checkup.

Ah, somebody processed you already.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.

You guys tried to pull every trick in the book in order to keep your strangle hold on power!

I thought we were going to rig all the Diebold machines.

Thats a pretty slippery slope for you fellas. Tracking down "Tricksters" and "Fraudsters" can only serve to further hurt your cause and expose the under belly of dirty politics that the right was willing to stoop to in order to stay in power. Phony robo calls, telling people to show up at the wrong polling place, and telling people they will be arrested for showing up to vote are all pretty low down dirty tricks if I've ever heard any.

and the Dems did them all. Republicans are mere pikers at dirty tricks, like children before the feet of the masters.

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

Maybe the sources I'm reading are just a little too liberal but here is a link to evidence to support my statement. I could dig up more if you want, but I think one will suffice for now.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/6/1717/68014

Care to share links to info that support your side?

...that those calls were coordinated by Republicans. They could have easily been crazies working alone.

Why is it then that Dems oppose voter I.D.'s? Nothing to hide there, heh?

That's dumb to me too. I agree that photo ID should be shown at the polling place.

To get the ID, you have to take off from work and stand in line. You also have to show documents that sometimes cost money. Sometimes the ID costs money.

I make enough money that my wife only needs to work part-time. If she lost her ID, she could take a day and go get a new one. But if we were poor, or had hourly paying jobs, it would cost her a day of wages.

If the ID issuing offices were open 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, and all IDs were free, it would make more sense. Or give police stations (which are always open anyway) the authority to issue these IDs.

This would at least show people that we were actually trying to keep the vote clean and not trying to stick poor people (who tend to be disorganized, that's why they're poor) with a lot of difficult (for them) requirements.

I seem to recall an incident in 2004 where some Dems slashed tires on GOP vans. What about the chained doors on Steele's HQ? You always know what Dems will do because they first falsely accuse Reps of it.

though come to think of it the way Dems treat blacks who have left the plantation it would have been fitting to use them at Steele and Blackwell HQs.

Like I said, what we reward, we will get more of. Elections will never get clean until at at least some of these tricksters and fraudsters do a perp walk on TV. I don't care what party they're from, these guys are messing with Democracy, and they are messing with America, and (if we get evidence of wrongdoing) heads need to roll.

Conceeding a tennis match or a football game (or even a promotion at your job) is classy and manly. I think too many people on this board are carrying lessons they learned from high school sports and the business world into politics.

They are wrong. A candidate has no moral authority to surrender anything. By doing so he betrays the choice that those who voted for him made. This is not about George Allen, it is about those who voted for him (and against him, too). Votes need to get counted and elections need to be run fairly. It is not Allen's place, morally, to decide otherwise.

...a Diebold machine ate a few thousand votes.