Redstate

I suspect most of us did. Many of us thank God for our blessings every day.

Can't Huck attribute his success to God's blessing? I'm confident any struggles and/or losses he experiences through the election cycle he will also attribute to God's will.

He's not saying God is on his side. He's just being thankful.

Mr. Ed
Straight from the Horse's Mouth

In public, he says that. Behind closed doors he tells people he's God's chosen candidate.

Candidates that speak out both sides of their mouth make me really nervous.

==== 13 ====

Are you one of the people Huckabee talks to in private? Because if you aren't, how is it that you know what he tells people in private? Are you just claiming that what you think he does is what he actually does or do you have evidence of this? (You may have evidence, I just haven't seen any of it yet, so I'm not completely calling you out...I just want you to back that up.)

"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
Ronald Reagan

And btw, I'm not trying to pick a fight because I'm a Huckabee supporter or anything - I'm with you on Fred - but I don't know what Huckabee says in private so I'm curious how you do.

"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
Ronald Reagan

In the context of a campaign, he's saying that God is working a miracle on his behalf, which clearly implies to anyone who's paying attention that God favors him over the other candidates; otherwise, why isn't God blessing them with a similarly "miraculous" rise in the polls?

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The Red Sox Republican: Burkeanism, Baseball, and Sundries.

Right after the appearence Huckabee made at the Liberty University Convocation where he made those remarks, he was asked about it; his response:

"Much of the news conference focused on Huckabee’s reference to God as a major driving force behind his increasing popularity. When asked if God was solely responsible for his surge in the polls, Huckabee clarified: 'I’m saying that when people pray, things happen.'

'I’m not saying that God wants me to be elected. The last time I checked, he hadn’t registered in any of the states to vote. If he does register, be sure to let me know, because I will ask for his vote.'"

So I'll let Jim Geraghty express my skepticism for me.

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The Red Sox Republican: Burkeanism, Baseball, and Sundries.

Because your case isn't very convincing.

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The Red Sox Republican: Burkeanism, Baseball, and Sundries.

The first time I read this comment, I was trying to figure out how a sundress figured into the whole thing.

:-)

Visit The Scratching Post!

Here's the exact quote...spin this anyway you want but this is not a person that can win a general election and if nominated he will lead the Republican party to a loss in the general election that will rival the McGovern's defeat in 1972.

When a student asked him why he’s surging as he is in the polls - with the little money he has raised - Huckabee answered: “There’s only one explanation for it, and it’s not a human one. It’s the same power that helped a little boy with two fish and five loaves feed a crowd of five thousand people.”

He went on to say that “[t]here literally are thousands of people across this country who are praying that a little will become much, and it has. And it defies all explanation, it has confounded the pundits. And I’m enjoying every minute of them trying to figure it out, and until they look at it, from a, just experience beyond human, they’ll never figure it out. And it’s probably just as well. That’s honestly why it’s happening.”

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party ! Pastafarianism anyone?

He didn't say he is God's candidate. He is saying God is playing a role in his campaign. BIG difference.

God plays a role in my life everyday and I enjoy his grace from time to time. Is that saying I am God's chosen human being?

So what's next, a plague of frogs, locust, boils or what if we don't don't support Huckabee?

If as you assert Huckabee's campaign is one that has divine backing, we should all watch out if we speak ill of the Huck or dare to not support him.

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party ! Pastafarianism anyone?

I read that somewhere once, probably the same place Huckabee did. And if you believe that all good things come from God, whether it's a good thing happening to another person or to you, you must believe that when a good thing happens it is only proper to thank God for it.

The alternative is, "I'm a Christian. I believe in an all powerful God who works out all things according to His purpose, except for presidential elections."

Christians thank God when good things happen. If they believed God played no role in the good things happening then it would be dumb to thank him, they would instead thank themselves or others.

Huck is only acting the way he did when he was a pastor. Preaching his sermon of holier than thou-ness. This is code-speak for "Romney is a member of a cult". And because he is a member of a "cult", Huck can lie about it to the press and his supporters give him a pass because, well goodness knows they are the only thing standing in the way of this country go to hell in a hand basket because we voted in a satanist. He and his followers think that the ends justify the means. Soooo, they make vague accusations and then stand behind obfuscatory rhetoric because that is what Jesus would do.

It truly is pathetic that his campaign thinks that his status as a pastor is some sort of qualification for president. In the sense of the constitution, Huck should be disqualified for establishing a religious test for the other candidates to follow.

Huck would not be a candidate if his only qualification were that of a pastor.

He was a governor for 10.5 years.

Mr. Ed
Straight from the Horse's Mouth

should attribute his rise in the polls to his stellar record as governor of Arkansas rather than to divine favoritism.

While I certainly am not a fan of Huckabee - he is tied for last place for me - that is just ludicrous. It would help if your post actually made sense.

This just shows how little even some so-called conservatives understand about Evangelicals!!! The Scriptures exhort us to give thanks under all circumstances and that was precisely what Mr. Huckabee was doing. We don't expect everyone to like him but at least give him credit for living out what he believes!

"Truth can stand on its own and needs no help from half-truths, shades of grey, white-lies, or plain lies"

Mr. Ed

It being a presidential election, perhaps on his knees at the foot of his bed holding his wifes hand instead of in front of the cameras? Just a suggestion.

I agree that prayer is best done in private, unless, of course you're asked to pray at an event.

However, giving praise/thanks for blessings is quite appropriate in a public environment.

Mr. Ed
Straight from the Horse's Mouth

Hey, I'm all for him throwing his arms out and giving thanks to God.

However, the reaction will be both good and bad.

The good part is happening now. Can we afford to have him as our nominee when the other shoe drops during the general?

Does his choice to do it in public turn off more than 50% of voters?

If you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

Huckabee brought all this upon himself by telling everyone to vote for him because he was a Christian. His ad a few weeks back highlighted that he was a "Christian Leader".

If you define your campaign by your faith, then you had better be prepared to field probing questions about your faith.

This is the exact same minefield that Kerry found himself in, in the 2004 campaign. The guy made the mistake of pointing to his military service in Vietnam as part of his qualifications for the office, and then wasn't prepared for the attacks on that record.

Huckabee chose to run as the Christian Canidate. He did this by his own free will and choice. He now has to live with the consequences.

For myself, I am not so unhappy at his choice of words as the political immaturity they show. Couple that with the NIE flap, and the INS flap (minor, I grant you), and his continuing dodging and weaving about his record; and the image of a "not read for prime time" candidate emerges.

I really don't want a President who spends most of his time saying, "That isn't what I meant to say!"

Do you?

I do not.

we had that for 8 years from 1993 to 2001.

Leon,

There was a video just now on O'Reilley where Huck came out and said that very thing in response to a student question. His rise in the polls is the result of "Divine Intervention".

Sorry, I'm voting to elect a President, not a Pastor....Pass.

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party ! Pastafarianism anyone?

I recommend my response to Leon above.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

I think it's clear that Huckabee is tacitly winking and nodding to the evangelicals, making clear overtures to them on the BASIS of his Christianity, and then declining to defend Romney because to do so would complicate the tacit anti-Mormon sentiment in Iowa; it's a high-wire balancing act, and I don't think he's pulling it off. In the polls, so far. But, I think it's bound to lower a fair-minded person's opinion of him.

Or how about a simple "yes, I could vote for a Mormon" when asked by Glenn Beck.

Huck thinks Mormonism is a cult. If that's the case, he can't just say it because as you rightly point out he'd be called a bigot. But if he says it's not a cult, then he's a liar (if he believes otherwise). Perhaps the only way to save his conscience is to deflect. And if that's so, then what he's doing is not being politically crafty, but honest.

I don't believe Mormonism is a cult (I disagree with a slew of their beliefs, but that's not the criteria for a cult). But as a Southern Baptist, I've heard the word "cult" used a kajillion times describing Mormonism.

In your example he could easily answer "no" if he believes it is not. Therefore, he must believe it is because he dares not answer "yes".

I think you have hit the nail on the head. With a wink and a nod, Huckabee can have it both ways. He cannot be called a bigot because he didn't out and out say Mormonism is a cult, but everyone knows by his non-answer that he firmly believes it is.

You say, "But as a Southern Baptist, I've heard the word "cult" used a kajillion times describing Mormonism." The use of the term "cult" is unquestionably pejorative. It is meant to equate Mormonism with Branch Davidians and Jim Jones' Jonestown group. It is lazy, short-hand bigotry for those unwilling to consider that people who hold a different view of Jesus Christ than their own could still be Christians.

I am tired of it. I remember being very angry several years ago when Phil Jackson used the term describing those of my faith during a playoff series between the Jazz and the Bulls. It is time to put an end to its use in describing a thriving, honorable religion whose practitioners worship Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour.

All other denominations are apostate churches. Only the LDS church is the true church. So what has change over the last 150 years or so? Mormons today are so eager to be called Christians and simply another denomination. 150 years ago they wouldn't touch the other deniminations with a 10-foot pole.

"Truth can stand on its own and needs no help from half-truths, shades of grey, white-lies, or plain lies"

This discussion ends. Now. You may have not noticed the blaring warnings here on the site over the last couple days, but we are not engaging in discussions over whether Mormons or non-Mormons are Christians. 'Kay?

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The Red Sox Republican: Burkeanism, Baseball, and Sundries.

There was no assertion who is or is not a Christian. Just a statement of what happened 150 years ago and the transformation since.

"Truth can stand on its own and needs no help from half-truths, shades of grey, white-lies, or plain lies"

This is what Huckabee does. A backhanded attack on another person's faith, and then will say I never said such a think.

Mr. Hahn said it best... Huckabee is all about deniability.

And you're learning like a good flock in how to do it.

I'm not interested in debate, I'm not in tersted in the larger context of your comment, nada. Go have the discussion somewhere else, if you must have it.

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The Red Sox Republican: Burkeanism, Baseball, and Sundries.

to the second. He is caught between the rock and the hard place. Damned if he does damned if he doesn't! Think about it. To a large portion of "Bible believing Christians" Mormonism is a cult. By answering the two questions as you have suggested, how will that be taken by his core supporters? I suggest you take the man at his word that he is both authentic and consistent. You may not like him and simply will not vote for the man. I suspect he won't have a problem with that. However, I do think that he will work his butt off to get your vote.

"Truth can stand on its own and needs no help from half-truths, shades of grey, white-lies, or plain lies"

if he is our nominee. And I will do so gladly. There will be no nose-holding on my part if he wins the primary.

I respect the man for his honest, open, heart-felt answers to difficult questions regarding faith and his religious beliefs.

I just wish he would return the respect. He could do so by letting go of the belief that my religion is a cult. A simple acknowledgement that it is not would actually be beneficial in the long run to all honorable religions.

It isn't that much to ask, is it?

"Truth can stand on its own and needs no help from half-truths, shades of grey, white-lies, or plain lies"

Who gives a rat-crap? I'm not electing a pastor. He can think I'm going to hell all he wants as long as he keeps Islamo-facist from sending me there, etc..

I'm not a Huckabee supporter, but I honestly couldn't care less what he thinks of my religion.

John Bolton for President
"FEAR THE 'STACH!!!"

thought my ancestors were a nuisance when he was president and may have believed we were, if not a cult, then at least an aberrant religion. I still honor and respect that great man, and believe that if he really had the chance to get to know my ancestor he would have recognized his mistake.

Similarly, if Mike Huckabee honestly believes we are a cult, then I will just have to live with that bigotry, as I do with many others. I will still vote for the man if he is our candidate.

I do still hope he believes otherwise and would be willing to do the truly Christian thing and say so.

to others of his mindset. That code being "Romney is a member of a cult, as just like Jesus did when he was questioned, Huck needs to use code to make it appear that he didn't REALLY say that". In my opinion, this is bigotry.

And of course, they miss the most important reason Jesus took the tact he did. His mission on earth was to die on the cross. He spoke in parables so that those who had ears to hear would understand his message. His parables were meant to lead people to his truth, not to hide from what he was trying to say. Huck is a coward. Jesus would take this problem head on and turned the tables over in the temple so to speak. His focus was on the wickedness within his own religion (for lack of a better word), and didn't really concern himself with the beliefs of the Romans etc. Huck should be addressing the bigotry within his own faith IF that is what he was tasked to do by God. And if so, he should render that which is God to God and that which is Caesars to Caesars, and remove himself from the political process and leave the affairs of men to themselves.

Drudge now headling Newsweek poll.

Sorry, Mitt, but the Sunday shows might end up talking about this much more that your speech yesterday.

And a MOE of +/- 7?

Yep, that's a quality survey ya got there, Gawdfather. It puts the "K" in "Quality".

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

...relative crapiness of the poll's methodolgy matters not.

What is important is the possible impact it will have on media coverage. Point being, hitting on a Friday night, it has a chance of dominating discussion for the weekend in the media, with Romney's speech getting much less coverage than would have been the case otherwise. Just sayin'.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

At the risk of appearing quantitatively naive (I took statistics as part of my MBA program, but frankly didn't learn much), why would a poll with nearly 500 respondents and a MOE of +/- 3% be described by you as half/twice the value?

Mr. Ed
Straight from the Horse's Mouth

From the poll

N = 275 likely Rep caucus-goers (MOE: plus or minus 7)

They got answers from 540 Iowa GOP voters, but only 275 likely GOP caucus goers.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

Mr. Ed
Straight from the Horse's Mouth

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

The margin of error is + or - 7%, that still means Huckabee has a lead as he leads by 22 points. So add 7 points to Romney and take away 7 from Huckabee (if Romney is understated and Huckabee overstated by the maximum margin of error), thats 14 points total, still giving Huckabee a lead of 8 - still significant.

Look, you're in a sample size that is barely acceptable for a state senate race. Whatever gets you through the night, though.

Good luck managing the expectations on this one.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

Gov Huckabee wins!

"Truth can stand on its own and needs no help from half-truths, shades of grey, white-lies, or plain lies"

and if you think 46 to 10 is real... you are getting your meds from Canada. Or Mexico.

Seriously, until polling firms can figure out a way to get in touch with people who are savvy enough to have voice mail, caller id, and cell phones only, all polls will skew to a group of people that aren't fairly representative.

This is what I've been saying all along. I haven't answered my land phone for any unknown names for years.

www.fred08.com
Redneck Hippie

==== 13 ====

have a land phone primarily, many have Privacy Manager which makes it the same as not having a land phone except for wanted callers.

www.fred08.com
Redneck Hippie

It's called a bounce. What goes up quickly usually comes down quickly.

If you think that those numbers (even if they are right, which I doubt) are solid, you are out of your mind.

John Bolton for President
"FEAR THE 'STACH!!!"

Just about Huck supporters in general. Take, for example, your own reasons for voting for Huck: "he seems to be the most genuine, articulate, and charismatic candidate out there", "He shares my values and my beliefs", and "he understands the meaning of the second amendment." Basically, the only real reason that you're voting for him is because of the second amendment: not exactly the most challenged position in politics right now. On the other hand, you're willing to eschew your fiscal positions (which are being challenged in Congress on a daily basis) for your view that Huck's "genuine" and "shares your beliefs": and it just seems silly to many RSers that a conservative would vote for someone because of that person's public persona alone.

general. The problem some have with some Huck supporters is they are showing themselves to not really be conservatives at all, just Theocrats. I do not mean this as an assault, but a truism. If one supports huck because of his religion, and not because he is a conservative, then what is the reason?

2A is not enough for me, I do think it is a huge issue, but why is Huck so big on this and so weak on other freedom issues? Is it simply because Huck likes guns and not because he thinks of it as a freedom issue? How can a guy in one breath say "we must protect gun rigths!", and in another say, "we must ban smoking!"?

I think the 2a is a huge issue, but I find it strange that Huck seems to only like this one liberty.

Molon Labe!

And that's just it. Huckabee himself is a theocrat. When he says that his faith doesn't just shape him, it defines him, that's exactly what he means. Think about it. Why else would a man leave the pulpit (a divine calling) and go into politics if not to insert God's will into the public sphere? You don't just abandon a divine calling to strike out on your own.

I'm not opposed to this world view at all except for the fact that I think Huckabee has pretty much abandoned the conservative platform in getting there. In essence, he has taken the roll of charity normally assigned to the church and assigned it to the state. That I am vehemently opposed to.

For starters, I think it hurts the church. In every nation with a socialistic nanny state, charity giving is essentially zilch by the general public. It effectively neuters the church of its mission. But what's more, that is simply not the roll of government.

Yet again and again, you see a Huckabee bent over to please, to forgive. Let the criminals free! Other nations don't like Gitmo? Well, forget principle. Let's close the place! (And I have a feeling his Christian urge to forgive is pushing this, as well.) I just don't see the leader who is going to carry us into the 21st-century in him.

We are the most technologically advanced nation on earth and facing rising competition from around the globe, and our nation is seriously considering noiminating two bozos (i.e. Huckabee and whatever Democrat gets the nod) who whine about corporate salaries and whose economic policies are as backward looking as I've seen. Why? It makes no sense.

I'm torn on this one. On one hand, George Will goes to far criticizing social conservatives. On the other, Huckabee is taking off the table what should be two of the strongest reasons to vote for Republicans in the general: namely immigration and economic prowess/fiscal responsibility/limited government. It's frustrating.

"Don't ever be afraid to see what you see." ~Ronald Reagan

We have allowed ourselves to bow down before this god of political correctness far too long. All these questions are just red meat for those though police patroling our lives. We should have no business asking such questions.

"Truth can stand on its own and needs no help from half-truths, shades of grey, white-lies, or plain lies"

Maybe he thinks it is a cult. Who cares?

Catholics once basically thought the same thing of Protestants. A few still do. Would I vote for a well qualified Catholic for President? In a heartbeat.

John Bolton for President
"FEAR THE 'STACH!!!"

n/t

The way they're portraying it is if Huck were to lose, God just didn't have the power to come through.

The way I believe, God DOES take sides in political elections (Romans 13) and He always DOES win. He won when Ronald Reagan was elected just the same as He won when Jimmy Carter was elected.

Sometimes we get someone that does a lot of good things.

Sometimes we get what we deserve.

Here's hoping we get the former this time.

The big question Huck supporters can't answer is, "which one would Huck be?"

==== 13 ====

don't use "proven" without a link.

Granted, I often get behind in a news cycle, but can you give us a clue as to who proved this and where we can read it?

I don't think it's been proven that Huckabee was behind the anti-Mormon push-polls. But his people have been behind some nasty pushpolling that struck out at all major Republican nominees on social issues.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1207/Apparent_proHuckabee_t...

Definitely a move that could backfire. And who likes getting calls like this?

"Don't ever be afraid to see what you see." ~Ronald Reagan

CP

Of course Hucka doesn't know about this, nudge nudge wink wink. Why to have this sort of dirty trick push polling would be...what's the word...oh yea, immoral. Or does that matter?

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !

Jim Tomasik

and I think he'd be VERY well served by not putting out ads saying he's a Christian leader... or what he's trying to really imply that he's the ONLY Christian leader.

It defuses the attacks on him being a Baptist pastor.

Who's bashing him for being a pastor? They're bashing him for making lame comments about being a Christian leader and his backhanded nonanswer answers about whether he thinks Romney or anyone else in the Republican field has faith.

He can't have it both ways. He can't go around the Country, making the comments about his faith and how God is inspiring him and/or supporting him (even though I don't think he was trying to say divine intervention is ensuring his victory) and NOT expect to be questioned about your faith.

If you keep saying "I'm a baptist minister and a christian leader" over and over again, guess what people are going to talk to you about. And when you put out an ad saying you are a christian leader, people are going to wonder what you're idea of separation of church and state really is.

You can't possibly see this because you are a Huckster.

If you keep saying "I'm a baptist minister and a christian leader" over and over again, guess what people are going to talk to you about.

No problem. Let the discussion continue.

And when you put out an ad saying you are a christian leader, people are going to wonder what you're idea of separation of church and state really is.

When people trot out that phrase, evangelicals cringe.

between religion and faith.

Religion is a particular demonination.

Faith is a belief in a diety.

The Founders clearly didn't want a National Faith, such as Catholicism, Anglican, Quaker, Baptist, Lutheran, etc.

But they had complete understanding that Faith shouldn't be removed from civil discourse or from the Town Square.

I use church and state separate as neither should meddle in the other's affairs. I assume you don't want the 110th Congress with Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid all up in your church's business.

And I think there are a TON of Republicans, and a VERY LARGE majority of Democrats and independents who aren't interested in knowing Huckabee is a Christian Leader.

And I cringe when I hear you try to actually foist the lie that Huckabee is a fiscal conservative.

Separation of church and state is one of the "baptist distinctives", so I'm not sure what you are getting at.

of the admendment. Any interpretation that cannot be sustained by the text should be rejected.

Although most people are comfortable with the idea that the Constitution forbids the State from interfering with the Church and the Church from interfering with the State, that concept is not supported by the text. The admendment does not say Congress and the various churches, it only says Congress.

Therefore, it is entirely Constitutional for churches to seek to influence Congress.

Separation of church and state is part of baptist doctrine. Not in the way that modern lefties view that phrase, but it is an integral part of baptist teaching, and for good reason.

If he's trying to do that, I agree with you because he's not running for Pastor in Chief. He can talk about his Christian faith and convictions, and should promote his leadership qualification, but trying to link them together and identify himself as the "Christian leader" is ill-advised. It's not so much that he might be putting down his opponents - that's getting too PC for more; it's just that it's not relevant for the job he's running for as President.

And Rightly So!

I can see what you are saying that the whole "Christian leader" thing is not relevant to the job of president. As a Huck supporter, I can definitely say that I don't think that he should run any more of these kinds of ads--one was enough. However, I also think that people are getting carried away and reading WAY too much into the whole "Christian leader" thing when they were accusing him of anti-Mormon bigotry. Huck was obviously just trying to define himself.

get rid of the 2nd plank of the Communist Manifesto.

Jim Tomasik