Code Words?
Before you answer that question, show it to your wife. I did.
By Moe Lane Posted in 2008 — Comments (56) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
No, I'm being quite serious. When I first saw this:
...which comes via TalkLeft (the title, "These Kinds Of Sexist Remarks Are Not What I Am Looking For," should give you an idea of their reaction), my general conclusion was merely Stone cold dumb[expletive deleted] of Obama for letting that come out wrong. Then I remembered that I'm a knuckle-dragging reactionary Neanderthal of a GOP fascist patriarch, so I did what knuckle-dragging reactionary Neanderthal GOP fascist patriarchs do in such cases: I went and asked my wife what I should be thinking.
I got an earful. While my better half (and I should note for the record that my wife is: a, the sole wage-earner of the family; b, has a doctorate in aerospace engineering; c, is a right-wing moderate with a lifetime NRA membership and no intention of voting Democratic in this election) normally looks upon my political enthusiasms with the same polite, supportive disinterest that she reserves for my love of the Cthulhu Mythos, on this topic she has an opinion, which you may read after the fold.
Read on.
The following was typed out by her: I haven't edited it at all, except to blockquote it.
Obama was careful not to say anything glaringly, obviously misogynistic; he never explicitly references Sen. Rodham Clinton's sex, for example, so he can say, in all innocence, that he was just talking about her as a person, not as a woman.
However, I find that disingenuous. The charge that women are irrational and emotional has long been levied against them, to argue why they should not be allowed into the political (or other public) arena. "A woman president? She'll get PMS and push the button." Women get emotional ("when she's down") and then do those silly, female things that men can gently laugh patronizing about ("launches attacks to boost her appeal"). Note that it's cast, subtly, as a self-image problem. She needs to "boost her appeal" like a woman who, feeling down, goes out and buys expensive shoes so she'll feel pretty.
If he's said that when she "feel threatened," "feels behind," "is behind in the primary," or otherwise implied that her attacks were motivated by a rational reason, I wouldn't have blinked at the comment. Instead, it's all because she's feeling badly - silly little woman.
(NB: If you're defining misogyny as vicious frothing hatred against women, then no, his comments were not misogynistic. Maybe "sexist" is a better word - whatever you want to call it, his comments play to an old and pervasive idea that women's minds just aren't as strong as men's.)
See, here's the problem: my wife's brighter than I am*, and while I can read about the issues involved in being a woman in a traditionally male field, she's the one actually dealing with it every day. While personal experience is by no means a trump card in this sort of dispute, it isn't actually irrelevant, either. So when I see her get a little quiet and set about the mouth about something she's seen or written, well, I don't have to agree, but I probably should start taking it seriously.
So: is Senator Obama a misogynist? I... don't think so. But if he's being told right now not to worry about the reaction that women will have to this comment - well, possibly he should get a second opinion on that.
Moe Lane
*One thing that I've noticed, from meeting various of my co-bloggers: we knuckle-dragging reactionary Neanderthal GOP fascist patriarchs seem to do fairly spectacularly when it comes to marrying well. At least, the ones of us who blog. Hardly seems fair, doesn't it?
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Code Words? 56 Comments (0 topical, 56 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
the critter has done nothing but play the hapless female victim card since Bill Clinton's last term. She trounced the eminently trouncable Rick Lazio by playing on him being a meanie to her in a debate. He asked her a question or something similarly misogynistic.
Then we had the episode with Hillary's rack (I'm only mentioning this because it is Lent and we should be discomfited during this season) (here | here).
Then she won the hearts of enough sexually frustrated, hairy, aging feminists in New Hampshire by blowing snot and sobbing about how hard she's tried to usher in the Age of Aquarius to win that primary (I'm being charitable here because I think the real reason was that white democrats would not vote for a black candidate).
What the hell is Obama supposed to think? What should anyone who has watch Hillary Clinton in action think?
She uses her ersatz femininity as a bludgeon on her opponents while simultaneously demanding equality. You can't have it both ways. And here Armando (speaking somewhat ironically on the subject of how women should be treated) playing the role of lap dog to this duplicitous harridan.
"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling
with a woman. Obama needs to figure out how to lose gracefully and retreat fast before this becomes his Kursk salient
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
He can either treat her as an equal or he can play Rick Lazio or reprise his own NH experience.
I don't think roughing up Hillary Clinton is going to hurt him with any women who would have voted for him.
He did well getting this observation out for discussion. The next time she pulls it, more people than Obama will notice it.
"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling
We wouldn't notice and let alone care. Just how many Democrats are willing to take the advice of that great philosopher you quoted ? Democrat primary voters are the people that feel PC is a good start.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Let me note I got it. Which for a man who believes that there are only 16 colors and ecru and taupe are jokes invented by decorators is something.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Politically, I'm not a fan of Obama, but he didn't say anything wrong here.
All he said was when Hillary is feeling down, she starts playing these political games. That's true, and that's what ANY candidate, regardless of gender, can start doing when they're down and desperate.
... I heard from this video.
That Sen.Clinton, "every now and then", when she feels "like her campaign is not going too well", "goes on the offensive" as a way to boost her "popularity and electablity." Etc., etc.
I have seen a lot of people gush about how well Obama speaks and how articulate he is. IMHO, when unscripted, he is not very able to express himself in a way that brings out his message without ambiguity.
For instance, during the one-on-one debate with Sen. Clinton in CA (I wish I could find and embed a video clip or something), Sen. Obama talked about all of the things HE DID as an organizer in Chicago; the laws HE PASSED, the help HE GAVE to working families to help them survive tough times.
What he should have said is that HE WORKED with others and HELPED with legislation that was eventually passed as a way to help working families, blah blah blah.
This guy can't do unscripted speaking very well and those who think he does are either deluding themselves or haven't seen articulate done properly.
..."Education's purpose is to replace an empty mind with an open one." - Malcolm Forbes...
If anything Hillary has played the sexist line for years, the "baking the cookies" bit, the repeated weepy, theatrical displays of late, she's played both sides of the fence, victim as well as feminist heroine,
Is the implication men in politics don't get down, obviously she has, that men don't go on the attack, no comment needed there, so where is the precise, unmistakable sexism?
I suspect we have reached the point where to criticize a woman is an automatic sexist call. As Harry Truman said," if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen".
I trust the use of the word "kitchen" won't be construed as demeaning in any way.
"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville
Had he called her bloated, I think we'd be on to something, but without it, I think the comments were only indirectly about PMS.
Of course, Armando knows his misogyny.
I didn't find Mr. Obama's coment to be sexist. It appeared to me he was being sarcastic about Ms. Clinton's new found ability to cry when it suits her needs.
I think the apprehension men feel about criticizing a woman is overrated...I myself find sleeping on the couch to be quite comfortable, and combined with the easy access to the fridge...you could do worse :)
FLY NAVY!
that you are from the south? The screen name suggests pride ;-)
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This post has been brought to by Thorazyne and other psychotropic drugs -- better living through chemistry
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
Everyone knows that people from Wales drink beer, play Rugby, and sing beautifully.
Granted, Rugby doesn't help with the teeth thing . . .
Quentin Langley
Editor of http://www.quentinlangley.net
International Editor of
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
just follow the excellent Ali G.
(For those who don't recognise him, this is Sacha Baron Cohen, before he became a Khazak.)
Quentin Langley
Editor of http://www.quentinlangley.net
International Editor of
ALWAYS the victim. Amazing.
Is it time to have the first VICTIM as POTUS? That would be different.
--------------------
Vista really sucks!
But if the question is, "are his remarks likely to be interpreted that way?", yep, and by more than just a few people.
If it is "should he have been more careful?", then, oh yeah.
Will it hurt him? Probably. Will he still have more (elected) delegates than Clinton after South Dakota? Yes. Is he going to win? Not without much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and shedding of blood.
If Clinton said that Obama is more of an entertainer than a poltician because he has a natural sense of rhythm in his speaking, that he is athletic and very religious, well, these are all compliments - but they come with a barb. They are like Biden saying he is "clean and articulate" when you just know he was thinking "for a black guy".
Quentin Langley
Editor of http://www.quentinlangley.net
International Editor of
The problem for Obama, is that these sexist "dog whistles" are seen as part of a pattern by his campaign.
First you had Obama telling Hillary that she was "likeable enough" during the NH debate. What many women heard when he said that, was "Hillary, you're a b*tch and a shrew." Could you all really imagine Obama telling Edwards that he's "likeable enough?"
Second came Jesse Jackson JR stating on CNN and MSNBC, that in NH, Hillary Clinton "was crying for he appearance" or her hair, but that she didn't cry for the victims of Hurricane Katrina. His comment included sexism and race-baiting--two for the price of one. Here's the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNrlSn7ndAA
Third, last week, when Obama was giving a speech at Tulane, he stated that, "When you challenge the status quo, then the claws come out". What women heard was Obama calling Clinton a "catty shrew." ("Catty" is a derogatory term used to demean women.) I mean, could you really see Obama say that John McCain's "claws were coming out" if McCain attacked him? Here is the link.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/is-obama-using.html
And now, we have Obama making statements about Hillary attacking "Periodically, when she's feeling down, in order to boost her appeal." By the way, I totally agree with Moe's wife that this comment is an obvious sexist dog whistle.
On a side note, Obama kind of left himself open to having his words parsed for sexist innuendo when he remained silent and didn't defend the Clintons (like he defended Joe Biden), when their words were being parsed for racist innuendo--like when Bill Clinton was called a racist for questioning Obama's Iraq war record with the "Fairy tale" comment, or when Hillary was called a racist for stating that LBJ rammed the civil rights act through congress. When Obama was asked about Hillary
Clinton's comment, he responded by saying that "She upset a lot of people", instead of defending her. He also had James Clyburn imply that Bill Clinton was a racist when Clinton pointed out Obama's age and inexperience, when he called Obama "young". Donna Brazile also went on CNN and basically lied, saying that Bill Clinton was "dissing the black candidate" with the "Fairy tale" comment, when Clinton was clearly challenging Obama's Iraq war voting record. Anyway, my point is that if Obama and his supporters were going to parse the Clinton's every word, in order to look for racist undertones, then they should have expected to have the Clinton supporters, as well as the media, eventually start parsing Obama's every word looking for sexist undertones. The problem for Obama, is that women really don't have to do too much parsing to find sexist undertones in these statements from Obama and his supporters--they kind of jump right at us. Just ask Moe's highly intelligent wife.
We have a general election coming up as well, after all. :)
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
My experience is that a man will always put his foot in his mouth in these situations, without even knowing what he did wrong.
I know I somehow manage to tick women off without meaning too. Fortunately they know me well enough that they forgive me because they know I didn't mean it that way- but only after they make me pay for it.
No doubt Obama did not intend this as "code words", but that's what it sounds like. Unfortunately for him, American women do not all know him personally and so won't be able to recognize that he "didn't mean it that way".
It begs the old question:
If a bear [expletive deleted] in the woods, and there is no woman around to clean up the mess, is a man still wrong for hearing it?
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This post has been brought to by Thorazyne and other psychotropic drugs -- better living through chemistry
and thank you for sharing the Mrs's insights as a women. I too would have missed those inuendo's completely, being a man. He is definately appealing to the women.
A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. Thomas Jefferson
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
If suffrage was supposed to be so good for women, how come no women voted for it?
You can't afford the price of free corn.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
Bada Bing Bada Boom
Cymbal crash sound !
______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
and spin designed to paint her as a victim of the 'horrific misogynistic society' that has 'kept her down' with a glass ceiling and the only way that we can rectify it is by calling Obama a sexist and voting for her.
Yeah, I don't think so.
The clip exists. My wife's reaction to it is precisely as she herself wrote it, and she currently has no intention of voting Democratic in the next election. My own conclusion is essentially that the man's merely put his foot in it with a rather bad misstatement, and he needs to address that quickly.
So what exactly are you referring to?
Next post, please. I'd like to make certain that you're not attacking my wife.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
with church and sleep, and didn't get back to this until this morning...
When I wrote my comment, I was not taking into account what your wife specifically said. You may have used your wife's comments as a catalyst for the original post, but I did not use that same catalyst for my response. I may disagree with your wife's interpretation, but healthy discourse is not the same as an attack.
I was speaking to the general state of mind that Senator Obama's comment was somehow related to menstruation, and the spin, which is not based on political ideology, but comes from sexual identity. There appears to be a sense of "I may not agree with Senator Clinton, but we're both women, so I have to defend her" going on through out this political process. Why can't we just judge Senator Clinton based on her merits, of which there are few, and her accomplishments, of which there are fewer, rather than attempt to invoke the alleged playing of the gender card?
Rather than jump to the conclusion that an attack had been made, it may be better to simply use a wide lens and see what the Senator from Illinois was saying in a general context, rather than constantly taking everything personally and being offended over nothing.
Why can't we just judge Senator Clinton based on her merits, of which there are few, and her accomplishments, of which there are fewer
We can. But it is harder for Obama, because such analysis does not do him any favours either.
Quentin Langley
Editor of http://www.quentinlangley.net
International Editor of
I guess I should just be honest and say that I am opposed to a Clinton regaining the Whitehouse so completely, that it doesn't matter what the story is, I will be on the side which is against her.
Does that make me a clintsogynist?
another dhimmie, we should just sit back and say as little as possible.
I have no intention of helping Hillary pretend that someone talking about how mean she is is somehow victimizing her.
I hope that BHO and HRC spend the next 9 months arguing about just such substantive topics.
What this video shows me is that Obama is a horrible off the top of his head speaker...He can definately give great speeches but when hes at a podium and asked questions he stumbles. This guy is most definately beatable and McCain can do it!
"The conqueror is always a lover of peace; he would prefer to take over our country unopposed."
- Karl von Clausewitz
Or an actor.
He is not fast on his feet or in one-on-one interviews.
He is very beatable on issues and his own style, under pressure, will turn people off.
She is a lifelong Democrat from a family of lifelong Democrats.
She didn't see any "code words".
However, she did state, for the record, that, "I wouldn't pee on Hillary if she were on fire."
I think we would be better served by invigorating our base for John McCain, rather than concerning ourselves with the Dems infighting. It is fun to watch, but glass houses and all.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
I know you guys beat him up sometimes around here, but if you scroll down to read the comments from that article, you will find he gets the same treatment there :-).
BTW, Flyerhawk, I'm with ya on this one.
God knows what they'd say to him if his RS presence was more well-known over there. :)
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
He takes quite the beating there.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
in the personal lives of others unless I am paid a legal fee to be interested. I am not a visual person (most liberals are).
Now I will look at your link!
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
I apologize GC -- that was totally irresponsible of me. I now realize that the Ambulance-chaser in you would take offense at that remark and so it was completely uncalled for. ;-)
lick one of hands to make things right
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
down to make sure one's business card lands in blood in an area visbile to a potential guardian ad litum. Of course, once one is more advanced, one has a runner, er ah, I mean, a paralegal to scope out the...
must go now
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
bludgeoned about the head and shoulders by a huge dangling participle. What a load of claptrap those enlightened progressives laid on poor Flyerhawk. I'll (probably) not be nearly so hard on the man ever again.
Their blindspots are obvious to anyone except them.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
It seems a bunch of people are missing that Obama actually said "periodically...when she gets down..." and are taking it how he meant it "every once in a while...when she gets down..."
So was the use of "periodically" code for "she gets down when she's got PMS/menopause acting up" or was it really just "every once in a while"...
I can't answer that, and not being female, I'm not offended by it either way, but I can see how it could be taken as offensive and why somebody might pitch a fit about continuing stereotypes etc.
"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
Ronald Reagan
It's a different campaign with with a woman candidate involved. Intentional or not, a man must be aware of how his comments may be interpreted.
My take is he was trying to take a shot at Hillary, but it didn't come out the way he intended.
But hey what do I know, I'm kind of in MOE's category a knuckle-dragging reactionary Neanderthal GOP fascist.
By the way MOE, does your wife have a sister!? lol
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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
as a woman know that they make you "crazy" and I don't want her anywhere near the "button". So for this woman those things that men say, women also say because we have felt that way and we should not have access to nuclear football...I am serious about this because I have had "hot flashes" and they make me a mean, nasty person and someone you would not want to be around.....and I have seen aunt's and my mother and grandmother literally be "crazy" as they went through the "change"......not pretty gentlemen.....get ready because when it happens you never quite know what set it off, but it was you :-)
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