Dems Ohio Debate: Who won?
And yes someone has to win.
By Kevin Holtsberry Posted in 2008 | 2008 Democratic Primary | 2008 Presidential Campaign | Barack Obama | Hillary Clinton | Presidential Debates — Comments (41) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
I had to cover the Democratic debate tonight because of my job. Did Red Staters watch (whether out of patriotic duty, morbid fascination, or deep seated sadism)?
If you did watch who do you think won and why?
To kick things off I think Hillary clearly lost this segment:
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deal with it, please. Save the bandwidth.
Yes, Obama lost the general tonight on this question. His Hate America Church is his achilles heel.
Mike "Gamecock" DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Mike "Gamecock" DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
And Obama was smart, cool and collected.
But Tim Russert really played favorites with his hostile questioning of Hillary and his gentle prodding of Obama.
BTW, does anybody still think McCain is better off going against Barack? Even Obama's deep voice vs McCain's whiny high pitch is a loser.
Obama won easily, but maybe Hillary can get some sympathy votes since she was treated unfairly, imo.
...is not to elect John McCain.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
People vote for all sorts of odd reasons. The fact that Obama is very well spoken and has great stage presence is a big plus. McCain looks old, stuttters (as someone mentioned) and stammers and can't deliver a speech to save his life. Hillary comes across poorly, as well, with her monotone delivery, cackling laugh and occasional screech.
That's why I keep saying she was the one McCain could beat. Both her and McCain look awful and sound awful so the issues would matter more. Not so when it's McCain vs Obama.
especially in this format.
I think Obama just killed her on Iraq, and her flip flops. However, this was his only issue, and if you noted, he admitted that if he ordered troops out of Iraq, and Al-Queda started basing there, he would have to take action, and he can get away with it because he and Hillary are both trying to occupy the same turf. McCain doesn't have to occupy, and has an opposing position on Iraq that he will be able to press.
In regards to the other questions on the economy, and health care, he doesn't want to press the details, except to blame NAFTA on HIllary (and then in the next breath concede that NAFTA resulted in net job gains). Again, he didn't get pressed because he and Hillary were trying to occupy the same turf - both pandering for union endorsements. McCain will be able to press here - isn't it good when there is a net gain of jobs?
Obama doesn't want to talk about health care.
In fact, Obama was smooth on most questions, but not exciting like his stump speeches.
Obama's sole reason for candidacy seems to be Iraq, young and dynamic. These are the toughest questions he has had to date, and he will have to answer more tough questions as we get closer to November. We will win on the issue of Irag, especially after the Iraqi elections in October. The question will be issues of the economy, and I think right now Hillary would be tougher on these issues than Obama.
The other issue will will have to overcome is turnout. If we were to put todays Barack in place of Kerry in '04, we would have lost the general just on the basis of african american turnout in Ohio. We will need to carry the suburbs somewhere in the area of 65%-35%, and Obama will try to morph on the economic issues for the working class suburbs. These are people who voted for Bush in '00 and '04 because they felt comfortable with his every guy appeal, but a lot are hurting economically, and we do not always relate well to them on economic issues.
I'm sorry, I just don't get it one way or another. I guess because I have not seen SNL in about, I don't know, 10 years.
But seriously, could someone please explain the pillow reference to me?
The SNL skit was all about the moderators showing incredible favoritism towards Obama. The funny thing is that tonight it was almost as if Russert saw the skit and tried to one-up it.
He has a GREAT campaign staff. They have him perfectly coached and prepared for every possible question. Everything the guy does is golden. Compare that to Hillary's flailing around and desperation for any kind of opening and McCain's lackluster showing so far.
Being more of a politics guy than policy wonk, I really appreciate great PR work, and Obama and his team might be the best I've ever seen. They have run a perfect race so far, imo.
Yes, I watched. I got where Hillary was trying to go, but she can't really say too much because the stupid media will just run to Obama's defense! ! Ya know, I'm so sick of seeing Obama looking down his nose at everyone and rambling on like he has a clue! AND. I'm really sick of McCain doing that stupid stutter shuffle that I could scream! So, I have decided that perhaps Ann Coulter is right! Hillary isn't looking so bad! So someone should let Terry McCauliff know that there are a lot of Republican votes that could go Hill's way! Wake up Democrats! Use your heads!
In the mean time it should be our priority to get the democrats out of Congress, replaced with some fresh republican faces, and in spite of things "it will be all right".
is Bush's position with different rhetoric, but his LONG Farrakhan answer killed any chance he had to beat McCain.
Mike "Gamecock" DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
I was too busy watching VANDY BEAT UT!!!!
GO 'DORES!!!
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The Red Sox Republican: Burkeanism, Baseball, and Sundries.
but most of them expected it. A tough game like Saturday and then try to double up by beating Vandy here in Nashville.
K
He did it by not losing. Otherwise the debate was boring boring boring, Did I say boring ?
Have to agree with GC that Obama hurt himself down the road with Farakhan question. It doesn't matter though. Obama could cut off Farakhans head, pee down his neck and set the corpse on fire and it would just gain him votes for being a bad A$$.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
And each moment I kept hearing 'oh my God... if those people take the White House we're really in for a toasting' ... it isn't often that i hear things .... but in my opinion.. Barack Obama won the thing. Seriously. Clinton just looked to me to be a supporter of Obama who was trying to take the discourse in a slightly different left direction. I'm glad the debates are done.
Proudly Supporting Patriots At http://www.countryaboveself.com
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/02/live-bloggi...
Mike "Gamecock" DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Here's the last line of the Andrew Sullivan's blog,
10.36 pm. Obama won it - quite easily. It was overwhelming before the final break. But decisive nonetheless. I can't see how she manages to rescue her campaign now. And his momentum will continue. It's over, right?
Doesn't sound like doubting him at all.
decides to end up for appearances sake. Its just another exhibit in the evidence pool for my main premise, i.e Obama is too liberal to be elected.
Mike "Gamecock" DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
If the rules are transparent and clear, and if the state has no authority to license businesses or restrict exports and imports, there will be no opportunities to pay bribes in those areas. Mart Laar
big picture please
Mike "Gamecock" DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
After watching that segment I think it's clear that Hillary Clinton is deliberately throwing this contest to Barack Obama. That was the most asinine thing I've ever heard her say, and I can only believe it was deliberate, particularly since she knows (or should know) how that comparison to SNL was being treated today in the Washington Post by Dana Milbank.
She just deliberately threw in the towel, in my humble opinion. Here cometh Barack Obama!
Obama is smart, but his lifetime in the liberal cocoon born ignorance is legion. He gave a great new answer on the war, but his answe on Farrakhan and his church will doom him.
The fact is that his liberalism dooms him. This was inevitable. Its the details of how his leftism dooms him.
Mike "Gamecock" DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Whites? a pretty big demographic! Not to mention those of all races that think any question about Farrakhan should produce an immediate denunciation of him as the obvious crazy ass racist that he is.
No matter if he lives near Obama's house!
This was fatal.
Mike "Gamecock" DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
She knows the Washington and New York Press Corps. took her people apart for making that comparison in a meeting sponsored by the Christian Science Monitor, and for her to bring it back up during the debate is a clear sign to me that it has become her "exit strategy" -- now the media has a perfect justification to keep on supporting Obama at her expense, and they will.
It's over for Clinton. She just made it so.
Here's what the New York Times' Adam Nagourney had to say about her very, very interesting performance tonight:
Her most memorable moment — the one that seemed destined to be replayed in the days ahead — was not, say, a sharp rejoinder to Mr. Obama that might undermine his credentials and tilt undecided voters toward her. Rather, it was when she invoked a “Saturday Night Live” skit from last Saturday that showed television journalists fawning over Mr. Obama, another example of her campaign’s increasing frustration over what it considers unbalanced coverage of the Democratic race.
That moment was forecast early Monday afternoon. It was known by Tuesday morning how much the Washington and New York Press Corps. would pan that line of argument. Milbank's article was page A02 in the WaPo on Tuesday. Everyone in Clinton's campaign staff read it, they knew it, and that response was totally scripted. She's deliberately falling on that sword.
It is over after this for Clinton. I give the campaign another 2 weeks at the very outside. They needed a pretext, and they knew what the pretext was yesterday and carried it through tonight. Buh bye.
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The not-so-subtle implication of this is that Ted Kennedy is ultimately more powerful in the Democratic Party than Bill Clinton is, and even more formidable than Bill and Hillary combined. It's gotta hurt...but someone has to be King.
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Maureen Dowd (who was at the meeting Milbank talks about) is now chiming in, too.
That means it is well and truly over for Hillary:
Actually it’s not forgotten. It’s a hard sell for Hillary to say that she is the only one capable of leading this country in a war when she helped in leading the country into that war. Or to paraphrase Obama from the debate here, the one who drives the bus into the ditch can’t drive it out.
Whew. That has to hurt the Clinton campaign, but not too much of course, because they knew this was going to be the reaction.
There you have it. The New York and Washington Press corps. have all collectively thrown Hillary Clinton under the bus, with her cooperation. I just shorted all the rest of my Clinton stock (which wasn't worth much anyway after Kennedy endorsed ObamaRama.)
I may be pulling for HRC for a variety of reasons...at least to lengthen the primary process to the convention.
However, when I watched the debate I was SHOCKED at how Williams and Russert moderated the debate. This was the SNL skit.
Here is a pattern for debates with Obama: If Obama answers first he gets the last word. If he answers second--he gets the last word. There was one point (where they played his clip attacking HRC) where he commented on it and then responded to HRC's previous critique. THEN Russert follows with another question for Obama to answer. HRC never got to respond to the clip!!!!!
The moderating was horrible. This coming from a person who does not think Russert is all that horrible.
I thought Obama did good with the Farrakhan question. I think when you start getting into the differences between denounce and reject or the tense of the word denounce or denounced. It seems kind of petty. Besides, other than the (crazies) Nation of Islam, African Americans tend not to be antisemitic. I have no doubt that Obama has his own skeletons, but I don't think racism is one of them. Additionally, why wasn't Hillary called on her sexist comment that a woman president would represent a "sea change"? had Obama said that about a black president it would have torpedoed his aspirations to be commander in chief.
the 30 sentences it took him to get their and that he still did not answer Tim's question.
Mike "Gamecock" DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Here's what one of his supporters, Andrew Sullivan has to say:
"10.09 pm. Farrakhan. Does Obama understand that saying he has consistently denounced him is not the same as simply saying, "I denounce him"? A weak response - reminiscent of Dukakis. (By the way, why is it somehow only a question for Jewish Americans that Farrakhan is a fascist hate-monger? It's a question for all Americans.) Obama's Farrakhan response suggests to me he is reluctant to attack a black demagogue. Maybe he wants to avoid a racial melee. But he has one. He needs to get real on this. Weak, weak, weak. Clinton sees an opening and pounces. She wins this round. He is forced to adjust. His worst moment in any debate since this campaign started. I'm astounded he couldn't be more forceful. His inability to say by himself, unprompted, that Farrakhan's support repels him and he rejects it outright really unsettles me.
I have not believed that Obama has an ounce of sympathy for a creep like Farrakhan. But Obama has now made me doubt this. If David Duke called John McCain a good man, would McCain hesitate to say he'd rather Duke opposed him? If this is how Obama wants to tackle this emotive issue, he needs to get real."
At the moment he called Farrakhan a "minister", I've donated $100 to the RNC. But I guess this won't play an important role in a democrat primary.
IMO, Clinton would be a far better president than him. She carries lots of wrong ideas, but she knows what she's talking about. Obama won on style, but he's a buffoon: all style, no substance, while still carrying all the wrong ideas. He's a more polished Kossack, he's a Master Trendy.
I guess Obama won it by not losing, but the real winner was John McCain.