Did you see that debate?
By Erick Posted in 2008 — Comments (26) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Good lord. I actually did not see the whole debate, but then made sure to diligently read the transcript and avoid being led to drink or commit suicide.
Having gone back now and seen the clips, it confirms my impression of the debate — Barack Jesus Obama spoke in beatitudes and Hillary Clinton talked in substance. Some people want their heart strings pulled and some people want substance. The former will probably go with Obama and the latter with Hillary.
About the only thing I can say is that both of them loved to bash Bush and the rich. It's a pity they spoke so highly of workers and the "American people" while bashing the rich a/k/a job providers.
Hillary, throughout the debate, tried to throw some punches, but went soft at the end. See, for example, this one:
CLINTON: It is not enough to say, "Let's come together." We know we're going to have to work hard to overcome the opposition of those who do not want the changes to get to universal health care.You know, when I proposed a universal health care plan, as did Senator Edwards, we took a big risk, because we know it's politically controversial to say we're going to cover everyone.
And you chose not to do that. You chose to put forth a health care plan that will leave out at least 15 million people. That's a big difference.
When I said we should put a moratorium on home foreclosures, basically your response was, well, that wouldn't work.
And, you know, in the last week, even President Bush has said we have to do something like that.
You can just feel the annoyance she has that Obama can say "dog feces is good for you" and people will faint, wake up, and immediately run out to consume the poop.
By the way, John Edwards' name came up twice tonight. Both times by Hillary Clinton singing his praises. You think she's wooing him for a last minute endorsement? It'd probably help her in both Texas and Ohio, more so than it would help Obama were he to get the Edwards nod. And it would really make Edwards the Queen Maker.
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Did you see that debate? 26 Comments (0 topical, 26 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
"Some people want their heart strings pulled and some people want substance."
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
There's no difference in the way Hillary's pandering to the moderates and independents.
She just neglected to secure the Democratic nomination first.
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“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
For crying out loud! Does everyone have to pussy foot around Obama! You can't tell me that someone can't throw him a questions that will take that arrogant facade down! Every time there is a democratic debate it seems the media is required to walk on egg shells! If they're afraid to ask questions of Obama now, can you imagine a debate against McCain!
I don't have the patience or enough money for the blood pressure medication that I would have to take.
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
She closed very strongly with a nice mix of personal and political, but she really seemed afraid of taking Obama on. I don't think I've ever seen a politician that everyone was either so enamored with or so afraid of.
I guess he just might be the perfect candidate for this age of personality that we seem to be in. Hillary is certainly smart enough to take him down a notch (or at least try to), but she just chooses to go with the status quo. Maybe she thinks she's winning Texas and Ohio....
But I loved her Xerox line. If only she had been that fiesty earlier on, Obama might already had been out of there
http://tinyurl.com/39djtz
If this is true, it is because of politicians like Sens. Obama and Clinton that the troops don't have what they need!!!
But don't overlook that the AK-47 and its knock-offs are some of the most dependable (and plentiful) weapons in the world.
1) exactly how much of UT/Brownsville is in Mexico?
2) what does she think "smart" border security would look like? We know it doesn't include checking passports for anyone coming in from Canada.
You can't afford the price of free corn.
I missed the debate (darn, had to teach kids, instead), but will do my best to see it in reruns.
From what I saw in CNN commentary (FOX was more concerned with Aruba), both candidates failed to make mistakes, which means Obama wins Texas. The only Democrats left in Texas are liberal, Black, or Hispanic: Obama gets the first two constituencies, the latter splits (and, incidentally, also splits Democrat/Republican: no bloc there.
there are still quite a few Democrats in Texas. they just usually vote Republican. I've actually gotten a couple of them to see what a joke Obama is. don't know if they'd vote for McCain if Obama is the Dem nominee yet, and its not like it makes that much a difference in Texas, but I'm working on them (of coure, if Clinton is the nominee, they're behind her for sure. and it still won't make a difference. lol)
I'll try to keep them in bay in Corpus...(Actually, way too many Democrats down here)...
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
I urge all republicans on coming primaries/caucuses whenever you can (if allowed to vote in democratic side) to vote for Clinton besides your own. Let them have a long war within themselves.
been thinking of posting a diary entitled "Maybe Ann's On to Something" (note the subliminal lowercase). And its not because I think Hillary is the easier opponent. I actually don't. Both because her team knows how to play down and dirty with th best of them, and because I still have a foolish faith that the majority isn't that dumb and will wake up to the emptiness of The Obama, in the general if not before the primaries end.
As horrible a president as I think Hillary would be, I can at least see her as a credible leader if I squint and tilt my head. The idea of Obama as President is about as laughable a one as could be thought of. I am come to the conclusion that he would be the worst president in history, without the slightest competition.
...there was steam coming out of my ears for much of the debate.
But there was one exchange that really caught my attention - that being the one over their respective health care plans. I couldn't believe what I was hearing... They were actually fighting over whose universal health care plan was more compulsory! As if that was a good thing!!! Hillary said exactly that! That if it isn't mandatory for EVERYONE, it wouldn't work... Like SOCIAL SECURITY!
Ugh, God help us if either of these two get into office with a Democrat legislature.
I believe that if the Dems are forced to provide Future Tax Tables, based on what they think everyone should be taxed, they will lose the middle class voter very quickly. And I mean everyone.
I just think that most people keep hearing Hildabeast and Obama refer to 'sticking it to the rich' when the reality is that they are really referring to the middle class and above income groups.
is their refusal to define what the Dems say when they say it.
How Rich is Rich to the Dems? It's a lot smaller than people think because real people with real jobs and that have to go to the store themselves to buy their food know how much things cost and having 30,000 ain't that great folks. Add in a couple kids and 100,000 won't get it either. Yet these are some of the "bright lines" that the Dems are taking about when they talk about the "middle class and the rich"
It's not about Health Insurance! It's about Health Care.
If it's mandatory and it must be provided, it's not Health Insurance. It's a Health plan. Some don't want insurance and a lot don't need it. Making these people pay for it or buy it only reduces the money they have for other necessities. They'll go underground.
The other problem with Health Care in this country is there is no "free market" forces at work. Partly due to Medicaid and Medicare but also because there is a limit to how many hospitals can be located in an area and hospitals doing poorly financially are a health menace. Doctor's availability is another pitfall. Doctor's gravitate to the higher paid specialties and to the areas of the country with the most money. This leave isolated areas to having fewer choices and farther to drive to see them. All reduces the level of care. If a Health care plan works on those problems, we'll see some people finally wake up and see how pervasive and corrosive a National Health Care plan will be.
We hardly ever hear follow up questions after some Democrate make some glib pronouncement. They just let so many disputable statements go right by.
We are not being informed by the media!
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"The Constitution is not a suicide pact". Justice Robert H. Jackson
Hillary Clinton sure has experience - in disingenuousness, lying and corruption.
I might boldly make the argument that Obama has more actual leadership experience than Clinton: a comparison of their records in the Senate shows that she has introduced one failed, non co-sponsored, puny bill after another, whereas he has passed more substantitive bills in his short time than most other first-term senators whose records I've explored.
I would argue that those who say he has no substance haven't really done their research - they are probably just assuming he is another member of a despicable Democratic elite. And why not? Maybe they think if he walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
Are people delusional in considering Obama? Maybe they are just so sick of Bush's rampant failures and disgusted with the lazy, duplicitous long-term Democratics currently in Washington.
And I won't eat poop and call it sunshine. Obama's economic policies need some serious help. He doesn't make me swoon (those were rumored to be Clinton plants, by the way). But, after seeing his record, I admit I am impressed.
Lastly, as the wife of a (partially) disabled vet, I was nauseous after Clinton's statement at the end of the debate last night. That was near-plagiarism, Hills, tsk tsk - taken from John Edwards. Did you think she thanked him for that, by the way?
Could you help me out with some of the legislation he has authored ? and passed ?
Shameful that we could be so far into a campaign season and I could be completely unaware of one of the contenders accomplishments.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I realized I misspoke in my earlier post. Only several of his bills have passed, including an amendment for employment protection for family members of disabled vets. However, he has proposed dozens of bills, some of which are currently in Commitee (some of which are ordered to be reported "favorably"), including those regarding the mortgage crisis, health benefits for very low-income veterans and economic relief for their families, summer income for low-income kids, and the reduction of global poverty, protecting access to discount drug prices for university and other types of clinics, and transparency in lobbyist donations.
That being said about my incorrect use of the word "passed", I detect sarcasm and/or smugness in your comment, so I'm not inclined to do your homework for you. I did my homework on the Library of Congress website. (http://thomas.loc.gov/) I recommend that you do the same. What has happened to manners in this country? Shameful, really.
Call me a troll, 'cause I'm leaving this place for my space back under the bridge...That is what I get for trying to understand one side of the political spectrum.
Stuck in the middle still. Maybe it is not such a bad place to be...
...mess it up the first go-round.
Moe
PS: We do insist that you master Reply to This, by the way. Not to mention stop you blaming us because simply waving your hopeandchangifix around didn't work as well as the deacons told you it would.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
...but one doesn't get much accomplished hanging out in that locale.
However, when you step out - whether to the left or to the right - you're going to hit by falling rocks since you're competing with so many pretenders that the trigger point is set to a sensitive reading. In general, it seems that civility is strained this primary season.
Don't get scared off too quickly - nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Good intentions not much done.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
To claim that Obama did not have any substance is really inaccurate. He quoted tons of policies during the debate...from a debate on specifics of their health care differences to foreign relations (meeting with our enemies) to the war in Iraq to education credits and more. Not that Clinton did not as well...they both did. Obama did go so far as to emphasize the importance of style in actually getting some of these things done, though, and in a race where the policy positions are so close, that becomes a key issue.
I suspect that after Obama becomes the nominee, you'll see at least somewhat of a switch in roles against McCain. Both he and McCain have a history and reputation of working with the other party, and will certainly emphasize that. But they will have far starker policy differences that will define the debate in a lot of ways.
Edwards the Queen Maker
There's something very wrong with the sound of that...
And Rightly So!