Don't Be Silly About Abortion
This is not a game
By Ben Domenech Posted in 2008 — Comments (49) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
John McCain takes his lumps quite regularly from the folks here at RS, and he deserves most of those hits. But this isn't one of those times.
Let's review: The Politico reports that Gov. Mitt Romney's campaign is sending out various email assaults against Sen. McCain on the abortion issue, including video footage of McCain saying some things that, well, seem a little like someone else in the 2008 race.
Guess what, Romney fans: when even your biggest promoters don't approve of a tactic, you know something's wrong. That something is the context of McCain's quote, a context that sounds almost exactly like what Gov. George W. Bush had to say in 2000 (anti-Roe, but hearts and minds must change first). And it stops far short of saying "I'm pro-choice," something another candidate had to say a lot more recently.
When you've got enough on your plate explaining your own position, don't compensate by playing games with other people's positions, or try to distract pro-life voters with cherry-picked editing. Frankly, listening to this campaign advise us on the life issue is like listening to Liberace as a fashion critic (actually, I think this would be a great show on E!, if they haven't tried it yet).
Read below for the full McCain quote. And please, stop playing games.
"I am proud of a 17-year voting record of pro-life positions. And I adhere to that position. I believe this issue of the repeal of Roe v. Wade is important. I favor the ultimate repeal of Roe v. Wade.
But we all know, and it's obvious, that if we repeal Roe v. Wade tomorrow, thousands of young American women would be performing illegal and dangerous operations. I want us to be a party of inclusion. I think that we can all be members of the Republican party whether we are pro-choice or pro-life because we share the same goal and that is the elimination of abortion. Because it is an unpleasant and terrible procedure. We think -- I think that we must go back to the party platform of 1980 and '84. We include people who have specific disagreements who share our same goals.
Ultimately, I would like to see the repeal of Roe v. Wade, but to do it immediately I think would condemn young women to dangerous and illegal operations. And we Republicans must send this and other issues that we are the party of Abraham Lincoln, of inclusion and not of exclusion. And I hope we can all work together and maintain a dialogue within our party as we help try to resolve this very difficult issue that affects America in such a grievous way." (CNN's "Late Edition," 8/22/99)
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Don't Be Silly About Abortion 49 Comments (0 topical, 49 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
I'm not sure McCain or Romney would have their hearts behind this issue, but McCain has a legislative record that speaks louder, and far better, than Romney's words on the subject. That said, I think Romney would probably be better than we expect in judicial nominees, which makes it basically a wash. But again, that's the debate they should be having.
I don't think any GOP President has ever really cared about abortion all that much.
For example, if Jenna Bush were to discover that she's pregnant and wanted an bortion does anyone here really think that the President would put his foot down and really go out of his way to stop it from happening? If she was still a minor, does anyone think he wouldn't ultimately give his consebt if it was required?
We can't really expect an Alan Keyes like true believer. The best we can hope for is good judicial appointments and signing bills like the FPBABA and Mexico City policy and funding decisions.
In that respect, I think McCain and Romney would be equally likely to appoint anti Roe judges. Although I would note that I think McCain would be personally most concerned about Campaign Finance and I'd note that if you look at FEC v McConnell, ALL of the Judges who were on McCain's side, also voted to uphold Roe. Not necessarily a good sign if he uses that as a guidepost.
Frankly, George W. Bush has probably done more (with his judicial appointments and his stem cell policy) than every other post-Roe president...and yet you're exactly right about the heart thing, certainly shown by his lack of speaking out on the culture of life as POTUS.
And yes, I think Romney would have very decent bench appointments, probably better than McCain's.
We are still a year out and already we are seeing misleading attack ads. Even you J-Ham, have to admit it is a big dishonest to take a speech out of context and put a video up of it.
You could say it is just politics as usual, but I'd like to think we are all above this. I'm glad the majority of blogs are putting the truth out there, but what about average Joe You-Tube that is surfing "John McCain?"
First of all, McCain's pro-life position is no big deal to me. It at least sounds like he's ending up on the right flop. I still don't trust his judgment on judicial appointments and I'd still vote for Satan before I voted for McCain, but this doesn't even rise to a teeny tempest in a small teapot.
Second, I really can't believe how thin skinned Mitt's supporters are. Given the fact that most of the opposition to Mitt has been at roughly the level of "he has bad hair" [pun intended] you guys are going to need serious medication if he starts pulling good poll numbers and D's notice him.
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller
Just the Anti-Mitt Redstate Press.
This reminds me of the time Mitt give a podcast interview, then put up a post right next to it calling him a liar.
If he is so terrible why all the stories. Just forget about him he ain't going anywhere right?
Keep up the good work!
A lot of this is the nature of running for president. George W. Bush went through much of the same conservative ringer, on many of the same issues, that Mitt is going through right now.
If Romney wants to lead the nation and the party, he needs to ACT like a leader. I think that the fact that K-Lo and I agree on this says that it's not the kind of leadership we want.
Romney has a lot of political positions to speak from with authority: health care policy, reforming government, challenging the left on their turf - but on this issue, are you really surprised, given all of his past statements, that he's speaking from shaky ground?
I didn't check Redstate regularly. Did you?
I am speaking of the fact the Redstate has regular anti-Mitt days. Some days they go on other candidate, yet Romney is clearly a topic of attacks beyond anyone else polling 4%. It will be interesting to see how you come to argue that all these attack pieces on a guy with these poll numbers.
I have a feeling it's because you recognize his chances and his ability.
That I was trying for humor. You weren't.
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Even those who learn from history are surrounded by those doomed to repeat it.
All the anti-Mitt press is very well deserved - he has brought it upon himself. Mitt Romney does not have a credible pro-life record, so he should stop going around trying to convince people otherwise. He is going to face this the entire year until his loses in the primary. Or should I say, Iowa. Either way, it was Dead On Arrival given his liberal record.
PS. Gary Marx = Empty suit.
What is he thinking trying to attack McCain? Bad, bad move. And now he is paying.
Billy Valentine
Students for Brownback
He's got the toughest team in politics, the same ones who derailed him in 2000.
Their techniques then were devious. A flyer was circulated widely with subtle comments about his 'black daughter'---never explaining that McCain's daughter is adopted. And he was effectively 'Swiftboated' as well.
As we know, it worked for Bush's team. Now, McCain has the same team and he will employ their full talents if necessary. Mitt should watch out!
1. I have still never seen any proof of that incident. If you have some, I'd love to see it. But it sounds like a big urban legend to me.
2. The daughter is also not black, she is Bengali.
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Social Security Choice - Club For Growth
was documented in The Greenville News, The State(Columbia) and the Spartanburg Herald-Tribune and by area television. Urban legend? The McCain camp came out fighting over it at the time and that is well documented too.
As for his daughter being black or Bengali, the smear was based upon implying that she was an out-of-wedlock "secret child". Stupid and most probably ineffective but it was indisputably done.
Mitt Romney runs laps around the competition in the Arena of Ideas and we're going to throw him under the bus because his current CAMPAIGN is more pro-life than his last one? I emphasize campaign because lets not look at his record, oh no, lets look at his debate videos.
Madness!
If anyone runs laps around anyone else in the arena of ideas, its Newt Gingrich. Say what you will about his electability, his personal life, his high negatives etc etc... when it comes to coming up with ideas which work as well as are conservative, i would put him second to no one.
But i like Mitt Romney too, and would prefer him to McCain, though not to Rudy as of now. I guess I'd be happy with any ticket which has Rudy/Mitt/Newt, in any combination.
Is it because I is black? - Ali G
Honestly on the politics of conservatism Newt appeals to me the most, but he has more baggage than Hillary and Guliani combined. Also, I am not convinced he should be the president, but I would love to see him back in politics-maybe in an advisory capacity-but I don't think he is all that electable.
I don't know why Romney is not attacking Giuliani as well.
Giuliani, was asked when he was mayor in 2000 (when it was convenient to be pro-choice) about his position on partial-birth abortion in 2000 by Tim Russert on Meet the Press, he said:
“I would vote to preserve the option for women.” He added, “I think the better thing for America to do is to leave that choice to the woman, because it affects her probably more than anyone else.”
But a few days ago on Hannity, Giuliani said that the partial birth abortion ban signed into law by President Bush in 2003, which the Supreme Court is reviewing, should be upheld.
link
seems to me a follow up on why the change is in order, but I know some people who bought into the idea that partial birth abortions were neccessary to save the life of the mother, but then realized that they weren't used very often, and that most doctors didn't even think the procedure was a neccessary one.
So, what I am saying is that going from opposing the ban to supporting the ban isn't that huge a leap (I know a lot of people who are pro choice for first trimester, but think abortion beyond that should be greatly restricted)-I would label it more of a flip flop, when you waiver from pro choice to pro life just as you start a campaign where being pro life is a huge bonus.
Am I the only one who sees a major difference between Rudy's "flip-flop" and Romney's? It is one thing to refine one's views -- Rudy's flip flops on some extreme issues in the abortion debate -- it is another to do like Romney did a triple-back-somersault on the entire issue in less than five years.
Let's see how evangelicals assess how big of a flip flop it is to have "refined" his views (another word for flip flopped) to fit his own agenda, being liberal when it came to partial birth abortion AND parental notification when he was mayor of liberal NYC, and conservative when it came to partial birth abortion and parental notification a year before the GOP primaries.
And McCain, whose flip flop cannot be matched by anyone. He said in 1999 to the San Francisco Chronicle that he was against repealing Roe v. Wade, and now he said he's for overturning it.
And McCain, whose flip flop cannot be matched by anyone. He said in 1999 to the San Francisco Chronicle that he was against repealing Roe v. Wade, and now he said he's for overturning it.
I can think of at least one candidate who has the dubious distinction of being able to match this flip flop.
FLIP
"On a questionnaire Planned Parenthood gave to the gubernatorial candidates in 2002, Romney answered 'yes' to the question, 'Do you support the substance of the Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade?' Romney also professed support for state funding of abortion services for low-income women, Rowland said."
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/03/25/roe_v...
FLOP
"My view is that we should let each state have its own responsibility for guiding its laws relating to abortion. My preference would be to see the Supreme Court do something which is up to them, not up to me. Even if elected president, I don't guide this. The Supreme Court does. But I'd like to see the Supreme Court allow states to have greater leeway in defining their own laws."
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/Politics/story?id=2885156&page=2
Is that McCain has a pro-life record, despite what he may have said. He votes our way (minus embryonic stem-cell research).
Romney does not. All I know is that in 2002, Romney told NARAL that they "needed a guy like him in Washington," and I am going to do everything I can to make sure that doesn't happen.
The whole vetting process is crucial. People don't know Mitt and should be asking tough questions. It's the double standard that bothers me. Rudy makes some vague assertion that he likes Alito and Roberts and people assert confidence that he'll be a Reagan Repubican president. Huh??? Every little thing on Romney's record get scrutinized endlessly, but he is still the most conservative of the big three and the most polished and articulate of anyone in the race.
I can't help picturing Hillary, the silent suffering wife, champion of women's rights or Obama, the black JFK, the darling of the MSM, standing on stage next to Rudy or McCain. I fear they will come across either old, unattractive, philandering or ornery. I remember how the MSM jumped on Lazio for getting tough with Hillary and Lazio. It's a shallow world and things like looks, charisma, energy and gravitas matter.
But yet we are busy "swift boating" are most electable conservative candidate presently in the race. It's conservative nihilism.
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"Our job is to bash the president"
Newsweek's Evan Thomas, on the role of the MSM
Because Rudy doesn't claim that "he is still the most conservative of the big three." You are asserting that about a man who wholeheartedly supported abortion a mere 5 years ago.
Rudy says: we may disagree on some issues, but here is where we agree. Vote for me if that is good enough for you.
Romney says: don't look at those old videos. I'm a straight ticket conservative who always had these views. And I'm the most conservative of the big 3. So vote for me.
To attack Rudy, one need say "No that isn't good enough." To attack Romney, one says "You are not the most conservative of the big 3" and "I will not ignore your past."
Hypocrisy is a very ugly thing and people really despise it. I think the push back against Romney comes from people who smell a bit of hypocrisy from his direction.
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Social Security Choice - Club For Growth
It's actually not so much his Mormonism as his inconsistency.
I personally still hope he realizes the error of his ways and becomes as courageous a straight-shooter as Giuliani. Romney could be a good VP, and ultimately a good presidential candidate in 2012 or 2016.
is that he's the only major contender that I perceive isn't willing to reposition himself on every issue to scarf a few votes. McCain would sell his mother for a vote and Romney doesn't seem a whole lot better in that regard. (I have no opinion of Brownback, etal on this subject.)
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller
has a record to back up his platform. It goes further then just abortion with Romney. He opposed the Bush tax cuts, now says he wants to make them permanent. On video he defends campaign finance reform, now says it is one of the worst pieces of legislation ever.
No one can question Brownback's platform because his record backs it up. Which is exactly why Romney has been playing Brownback defensively, not offensively.
And now, Romney's camp (Gary Marx) made a dumb decision to take a losing battle to McCain's camp.
Quasimodo couldn't come off as "old" or "unattractive" or "uncharismatic" or "lacking grivitas".
And by the way, "Swiftboating" refers to putting out truthful information about a candidate to counteract their constant lies on an issue.
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Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged. — J. Michael Waller
Team Mitt made a mistake by going after McCain on abortion. McCain has so many other problems that there was no need to go after him on this.
Giuliani is the guy that is getting the free ride. He has recently changed his positions to be more conservative, and he is still very liberal. Yet people still seem to think he is okay because he was mayor after 9/11, and he has said he will appoint strict constructionist judges even though he is pro-abortion; go figure that one out.
The more one finds out about the character and flip flops of Romney the less one likes him.
The more one finds out about Giuliani's actual RECORD the more people like him. Romney really does seem like the weaselly other Massachusetts politicians we have come to know and loathe..
United States Air Force
http://airforcepundit.blogspot.com
Is getting a free ride because the majority of voters don't know he's pro-abortion. He has been quoted saying he'd pay for his daughters abortion if she wanted one. He's on record supporting partial-birth abortion.
Time will expose these things, and Rudy's numbers will go down. In fact, I'd say they are at their peak point.
The reason why Romney is the target right now is because he is running around trying to convince everyone he's pro-life with no record to back it up.
OK, so which part of what McCain said is supposed to make the bit about not wanting Roe being overturned better? Is it this?
But we all know, and it's obvious, that if we repeal Roe v. Wade tomorrow, thousands of young American women would be performing illegal and dangerous operations.
Well, NARAL said it in a pamphlet so I guess it must be obvious. There's probably even a scientific consensus. Because we all know that Roe being overturned will lead to abortion being illegal in every state of the union at every stage of pregnancy the next day, right? And thousands of women dying in back alley abortions, right? But hey, we can't let facts get in the way of Mr. Maverick's straight talkin', right? I'm surprised he forgot to mention the coat hangers. Maybe next time.
Ultimately, I would like to see the repeal of Roe v. Wade, but to do it immediately I think would condemn young women to dangerous and illegal operations.
I suppose now that he's come out in favor of Roe being overturned, he supports condemning young women to dangerous and illegal operations. Or has the technology used in those so-called "back alley abortions" improved significantly over the past half dozen years? Maybe they are using lasers now.
Remind me: what is his explanation for all this again? Use of illegal substances? Mind control rays? A crazy McCain impersonator appearing on television shows? I've heard Romney's explanation (whether I believe it or not is another matter). I haven't heard any explanation from McCain.
Having heard what he had to say here, why would anyone think he gives a rat's behind about abortion at all? It is clear to me from his statement here that it's just another position he doesn't care much about and can go either way on. Today he is trying to run to the right and thinks he has to be pro-life to win. Back in 2000 he was trying to run to the left and be Mr. Maverick Independent guy.
He's no better than Romney on this.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
Senator McCain's point was that simply overturning Roe and outlawing abortion isn't enough, because there would still probably be illegal abortions performed. His point was that we have to also work to remove the demand for abortion in the first place. Which is a reasonablepoint to make.
As the quote you yourself cited exemplifies, Sen. McCain has always favored an end to abortion and the reason I think he "gives a rat's behind" is because his legislative record backs him up on it. In fact speaking of Roe, in the 2000 campaign McCain pledged to appoint only pro-life judges, while George W. Bush refused to do so.
"Senator McCain's point was that simply overturning Roe and outlawing abortion isn't enough, because there would still probably be illegal abortions performed."
Overturning Roe and Outlawing abortion are two different things. One can be in favor of the former, and against the latter. For the longest time, McCains position was the opposite.
And if he cannot eloquently promote understanding of the basic difference between the two positions on the stump and in his speeches, do we really need him as the face of the republican party for the next 8 years?
Is it because I is black? - Ali G
There are illegal murders performed, but that doesn't mean we banned murder prematurely...
Run like Reagan!
Abortion will always be legal somewhere and a woman who wants one will be able to go where she can get one safely and legally. What I would like to know are why things that get tagged "The McCain-(insert Democrat here) Bill" are always things that upset conservatives?
Well his "point" was actually that overturning Roe would lead to lots of dead women in back alleys and that was his rationale for opposing Roe being overturned. I'm not sure how that is any more reasonable than the traditional "safe, legal, and rare" refrain we hear from the left. Supposedly Hillary doesn't like abortion either, you know. Nearly everybody says they think its a bad thing... they just don't want to overturn Roe.
Add to that the fact that he is spreading inaccurate NARAL propaganda (overturning Roe = abortion becomes illegal) and it's even worse.
I think he "gives a rat's behind" is because his legislative record backs him up on it
Big deal. I'm sure he votes on hundreds of issues that don't make his top 10 list. It's his job to vote on everything that comes up. That tells us nothing about how much he cares about it. The only things we know he cares about are things like political speech restrictions, rights for terrorists, opposition to tax cuts, doing away with gunshows, carbon caps, and amnesty for illegals, because those are the things *he chooses to lead on*.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
I saw a clip of him in Iowa (I think) within the past few days, and someone asked him about Roe, and his response was strong. something to the effect of "Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided. It should be overturned." He did not mince words.
as you say, there are other reasons to be annoyed at McCain, but this is not one of them.
that said, I'm willing to believe Romney on the issue too.