Hillary Bobs and Weaves on Illegal Immigrant Driver's Licenses
When Only Chris Dodd Is The Voice Of Reason, You Are In Trouble
By Dan McLaughlin Posted in 2008 | 2008 Presidential Campaign | Eliot Spitzer | Hillary Clinton | Immigration — Comments (38) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
I asked in this space last week whether Hillary Clinton would or would not stick by her previous qualified semi-support for Eliot Spitzer's plan to give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. Spitzer's plan continues to draw fire from Republicans and Democrats alike - polls have shown even voters in liberal New York oppose the plan by margins exceeding 70%. In a weekend meeting with Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff, Spitzer proposed a compromise under which licenses would be specially marked as not properly documented for identification purposes - a sensible concession that resolves the worst problem created by Spitzer's plan but one that has not mollified his critics but has enraged his allies on the Left: while the statewide Sherriff's Association opposes even the new compromise plan, Spitzer's concession is devastating because "only weeks ago he said specially marked licenses 'would be like a scarlet letter,'" and "the New York Civil Liberties Union, which cheered Spitzer's original plan, said he'd 'bowed to fear-mongering and turned New York into a poster child for the Bush administration's assault on civil liberties.'"
In last night's Democratic Presidential Debate, Tim Russert tried his best to do what Russert does best, and pin down the elusive Sen. Clinton on her position on the Spitzer plan, and caught her in full straddle on this issue - while only Sen. Chris Dodd, who presumably understands that he has no shot at the nomination anyway, was willing to accept Russert's invitation to speak up in opposition. Let's go to the transcript - the video is here:
Read On for the full exchange...
[Tim Russert:] Senator Clinton, Governor of New York Eliot Spitzer has proposed giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. [You] told the Nashua, New Hampshire, Editorial Board it makes a lot of sense.
Why does it make a lot of sense to give an illegal immigrant a driver's license?
Clinton: Well, what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is fill the vacuum left by the failure of this administration to bring about comprehensive immigration reform. We know in New York we have several million at any one time who are in New York illegally. They are undocumented workers. They are driving on our roads. The possibility of them having an accident that harms themselves or others is just a matter of the odds. It's probability.
So what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is to fill the vacuum. I believe we need to get back to comprehensive immigration reform because no state, no matter how well intentioned, can fill this gap. There needs to be federal action on immigration reform.
Russert: Does anyone here believe an illegal immigrant should not have a driver's license?
(Unknown): Believe what?
Russert: An illegal immigrant should not have a driver's license.
Dodd: This is a privilege. And, look, I'm as forthright and progressive on immigration policy as anyone here. But we're dealing with a serious problem here, we need to have people come forward. The idea that we're going to extend this privilege here of a driver's license I think is troublesome, and I think the American people are reacting to it. We need to deal with security on our borders. We need to deal with the attraction that draws people here. We need to deal fairly with those who are here.
But this is a privilege. Talk about health care, I have a different opinion. That affects the public health of all of us.
But a license is a privilege, and that ought not to be extended, in my view.
Clinton: Well, I just want to add, I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do...
(Unknown): Wait a minute...
Clinton: And we have failed. We have failed.
Dodd: No, no, no. You said -- you said yes...
Clinton: No.
Dodd: ... you thought it made sense to do it.
Clinton: No, I didn't, Chris. But the point is, what are we going to do with all these illegal immigrants who are driving...
Dodd: That's a legitimate issue. But driver's license goes too far, in my view.
Clinton: Well, you may say that, but what is the identification?
If somebody runs into you today who is an undocumented worker...
Dodd: There's ways of dealing with that.
Clinton: Well...
Dodd: This is a privilege, not a right.
Clinton: Well, what Governor Spitzer has agreed to do is to have three different licenses, one that provides identification for actually going onto airplanes and other kinds of security issues, another which is another ordinary driver's license, and then a special card that identifies the people who would be on the road, so...
Dodd: That's a bureaucratic nightmare.
Clinton: ... it's not the full privilege.
Russert: Senator Clinton, I just want to make sure of what I heard. Do you, the New York senator, Hillary Clinton, support the New York governor's plan to give illegal immigrants a driver's license?
You told the New Hampshire paper that it made a lot of sense. Do you support his plan?
Clinton: You know, Tim, this is where everybody plays "gotcha." It makes a lot of sense. What is the governor supposed to do? He is dealing with a serious problems. We have failed. And George Bush has failed. Do I think this is the best thing for any governor to do? No. But do I understand the sense of real desperation, trying to get a handle on this? Remember, in New York, we want to know who's in New York. We want people to come out of the shadows.
He's making an honest effort to do it. We should have passed immigration reform.
For the record, Hillary denied that she said that it makes sense, then she said that it does make a lot of sense, then she said that it was not the best thing to do. And that's just in one debate. Oh, and everything is George Bush's fault for not passing the comprehensive immigration reform that the Clinton Administration had...oh, that's right, the Clinton Administration never did squat about this issue in eight years.
But at least you know where she stands, right?
UPDATE: Bryan Preston points out that if you watch the video, Obama and Richardson sort of raise their hands in opposition to the Spitzer plan, but neither was willing to actually say anything about it. Here is a screenshot - I can see Obama kind of limply sticking a hand up but I couldn't catch Richardson doing anything.
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Hillary Bobs and Weaves on Illegal Immigrant Driver's Licenses 38 Comments (0 topical, 38 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
You could have cropped your title to "Hillary Bobs and Weaves".
She covers both sides of most every issue so she has sound bytes to use on either side. The real question is: Are the voters going to let her get away with that?
At least some of her own are starting to figure it out and challenge her on it. She could be exposed as the empty pant suit she really is.
Ask not what I can do for my country, ask what my country can do for me. Washington Elected Elite
Charles Krauthammer wrote a piece that was attacked mercilessly here. I pointed out that his approval was tacit and tongue in cheek, and isn't this episode an affirmation of his assertions. Nothing she does is ever principled. She straddles every issue the way she straddles this one. This is her M.O. and anyone that expected her to act any differently should be disappointed.
Look, this latest piece will add to the arsenal. Rudy has already pointed out her non answer on Iran. Here is another none answer. The Clintons are the kings of defining what is is. Is is whatever the polls tell you it is in their world. I guess the polls were mixed.
Always tell the truth, George; it's the easiest thing to remember.
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"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -- James Madison
When you consider all of the grief Kerry took for "I was for it, before I was against it . . . .", you have to love watching Hillary walk right into that sand trap. Better yet, if you listened to her response on radio, you couldn't help but sense the look she had to be giving Russert for bringing this question up. Then, seeing the tape of her response, I'll wager Russert was hammered with calls and text messages from Hillary's hacks for daring to put her on the spot. Old Timmy boy better get some body guards.
Drudge has a report up (no link yet)
CLINTON INNER-CIRCLE BLAME 'UNFAIR' MODERATOR TIM RUSSERT. 'HE BORDERED ON THE UNPROFESSIONAL,' TOP HILLARY ADVISER CHARGES. 'HE BROKE DEBATE RULES AND WAS BELLIGERENT'...
___________________________________
Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill
besides political junkies. The debate (like all of the primary debates on both sides) was more boring than watching paint dry. Hillary still won the debate because there was no sound byte that can easily be put upon the non-debate watching masses. In the end Hillary will be the Dems nominee and while we will have a ton of ammunition, we will fight a very uphill battle do to what appears to be a general democratic voting wave we are facing in 2008.
piece however illegal immigration is very important to everyone not just political junkies, and you can bet that a skilled politician will go after her on this. At some point, she will have to take a position on driver's licenses and then that same skilled politician will carve those words up with everything else she said.
How many people actually watched Kerry's "I actually voted for it before I voted against it" when it happened. Not many, and it wasn't known by many until Bush figured out how to make it an integral part of the campaign. The same rule applies here. People want someone that is going to forcefully stop illegal immigration. Hillary is the opposite, and don't think the Reps aren't going to use this against her. Don't minimize this. You heard it here first. This will do plenty of damage to her campaign.
Always tell the truth, George; it's the easiest thing to remember.
could make her pay, but not Rudy or McCain. McCain supported Bush's amnesty plan. Rudy has the whole NYC as sanctuary city mess. Remember that in 1996 he actually sued the federal government in order to keep from having to report illegals that tried to get welfare checks. See the details at: http://fredfile.fred08.com/blog/2007/rudy-giulianis-illegal-immigration-...
You know some of those Dem 527s already have commercials waiting with tapes of Rudy saying,
"If you come here and you work hard and you happen to be in an undocumented status, you’re one of the people who we want in this city. You’re somebody that we want to protect…."
all due respect. If you think Hillary will try and outflank any of those three on illegal immigration, you don't understand her base very well. Rudy can defend his position as mayor just fine. If Hillary will suddenly turn illegal immigration hawk overnight, not only would her base blow up, but her past record will show otherwise.
This isn't about her stance on driver's licenses, but rather her pattern of never taking a stance on important issues. Rudy will crush her with this. He will point out this along with Iran, Iraq, and a whole host of other examples in which Hillary refused to take a position on an important issue.
If Hillary tries to make an issue of Rudy's sanctuary city policy, then she walks into the same trap she will walk into over and over. Rudy will counter like always. He actually had to run a city. It is easy to criticize when you have never actually run anything.
Always tell the truth, George; it's the easiest thing to remember.
it herself. Any number of 527s could do it for her. Sort of like the "Gay Republicans for Romney" ad that went out. They could do a "Illegal Immigrants for Rudy" ad touting all that he did for them as mayor.
we all know how effective 527 advertising can be. Just ask George Soros about the 80 mil well spent in 2004. What exactly are these 527's going to say. Check out how much more hawkish Hillary Clinton is on illegal immigration than Rudy? Again, you have it totally wrong. Hillary has left herself wide open for anyone short of La Raza itself to attack her and they will. If 527's wanted to attack Rudy on illegal immigration, they would do it whether this came out or not. I don't think that most left of center 527's would have much of a problem with Rudy sanctuary city policy. I really don't understand your thinking at all.
Always tell the truth, George; it's the easiest thing to remember.
rights issues than Romney too. They put out the ad to tell CONSERVATIVES that Romney had a history of being pro-gay rights in the guise of congratulating him. Not because they actually want him to win or they think he is currently pro-gay rights.
If Rudy puts out hard core, anti-immigration statements the 527s can "congratulate" Rudy on his past pro-illegal immigration stances thus making him look like a flip-flopper for challenging Hillary on this issue. Sort of a reverse psychology ploy. Of course their real aim would be to supress Republican turn out, not to actually have harsher immigration policies.
Check out Mickey Kaus today. He is saying the same thing I am.
put out all sorts of anti Rudy ads in Iowa and none of them worked anymore than any Dem 527 ad would ever work on any Republican voter. Again, Rudy maybe attacked for his position on illegal immigration, however if Hillary tries she will regret it.
If someone tries to label Rudy with a flip flopper stance that would be amusing. This guy took on the mafia, the ACLU, the New York Times, the unions and never flinched. One thing you won't be able to label Rudy as is weak and unprincipled. Again, I am not getting your analysis. Frankly, most people just don't understand the uniqueness of Rudy Giuliani. He is not that simple to attack. Most analysis of him is garbage. He is a one in a lifetime politician and Hillary will have no room to attack him. I wish her and every other group that tries luck because they will all fail.
Always tell the truth, George; it's the easiest thing to remember.
you are right. I don't see Rudy as the same shiny hero that you do, but I guess we'll see.
Fred Thompson sure has been trying to tag him with being pro-illegal immigration so he doesn't see it as a losing issue.
Fred has put out a really good position on immigration; he is stronger on immigration than Rudy and he can criticize Rudy on immigration. Similarly, Mike Huckabee can criticize Rudy for being weak on family values.
But Hillary??? Compared to Hillary, Rudy is superman strong on immigration and on family values.
Rudy, Fred, and Mike Huckabee are all better than Hillary on all issues, and on most issues they are way way way better than her.
I don't see Rudy flip-flopping on immigration either. So what if he was soft on illegal aliens back in 1996 - I'd say having illegal aliens kill thousands of people in your city entitles anyone to turn into a Tom Tancredo clone. In fact, since Hillary supposedly represents the same city, why isn't she saying not just NO! but H**L NO!! to illegal aliens getting drivers licenses?
You are right about how boring it is at this point. But that is actually a big part of HRC's problem. The media covering this are bored stiff. Now they have new lead topics to sieze on: "Once inevitable Hillary is stumbling" or "Clintonian Double-Speak rears its head."
The Media covering this want a competitive race so they have something to write about. They are dying for Obama or even Edwards to make it really competitive.
Hillary's debate bumbling, unless she can quickly neutralize it, can quickly snowball into a feeding frenzy for the bored journalists covering the campaign.
I'm not sure about their motivation, but I agree with you that the press is not being totally complimentary about her performance last night. That surprises me. I fully expected the AP and the alphabet networks to flat-out lie on her behalf, telling everyone that she handily won the debate and firmly reinforced her position as the front runner.
Only the AP delivered. Writing for Associated Press, Nedra Pickler goes with the woman-as-victim angle and does indeed try to sell the idea that the debate "underscored her front-runner status."
Other than the reliably in-the-tank AP, the articles don't seem to be all that complimentary, although Don Edwards — the suck-up — at the Los Angeles Times attempts to praise her with faint damn.
The more interesting thing is what happens next. Dodd, Edwards, and Russert all drew blood and everyone who saw it knows it. That means that Hillary's teflon coating now has holes in it and she can expect to see more spears flying her way in the rest of the debates. My take is that she and her inner circle are politically tone deaf. They may well prepare her for the next debate in a way that comes across very badly.
As an aside, I was looking at the comments on the ABC News site and was struck by how many people seemed to think that a lot of Hillary's support is coming from people who view her as a stalking horse for Bill, and that a Hillary victory would result in Bill Clinton's third term.
Drink Good Coffee. You can sleep when you're dead.
The MSM wants Democrats to win. That's their job - they peddle for Democrats. Maybe, just maybe they're not quite so sold on being able to pull Hillary across the finish line.
Secondly, of course the MSM wants a horserace on the Democratic side of things. If we go much farther with Hillary so far in front in the polls, they will have to cover Republicans - and that must be like hell, or death, or something to the liberals doing the "news."
Thats what Hillary is, shapeshifts into whatever you want since she has no publicly acceptable principles - problems occur when surrounded by real citizens with questions.
The media represent no problem since they think alile and have no priciples.
Hillary is now and has always been a scripted candidate. She never, ever has done any tough interviews, and has always had the media watching her back. The minute the debate goes off script, and the media(Tim Russert, in this case) doesn't bail her out, she will be exposed.
It never happened with the leftist NY press when she ran for Senate, she never does interviews with tough questioners--I don't know how long that can last.
I didn't see the debate. How bad was she? Second, what do people think? Will this make a difference or is she inevitable?
Always tell the truth, George; it's the easiest thing to remember.
Hillary has obviously gotten used to scripted interviews where she gets the softball questions while the liberal myrmidons in the mainstream media kiss up to her. She finally got a real question, and she flipflopped faster than Kerry and Al Gore Jr. put together! Like the vast majority of lib politicians, she flipflops like a live freshly-caught fish on the dock! "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." Sir Winston Churchill
did anyone watch? (I believe it was on MSNBC so my answer is no) Will much of the Dem base realize that the Reps will crush her much worse? I will check on some lefty blogs and see if that is asked. Finally, will anyone care? I personally don't think that anything short of a really huge gaffe will stop Hillary from getting the nomination, but we will see.
Always tell the truth, George; it's the easiest thing to remember.
It appears that there are already people that have claimed her to be the winner. For example, Dick Armey from FreedomWorks said today on National Review Online that he believed that Hillary Clinton would be the next POTUS.
But, his organization is also the same one that has launch the Stop HillaryCare Campaign, [ http://www.freedomworks.org/stophillarycare/ ] So I'm hoping that this wasn't a concession, but instead a battle cry that conservatives need to rally-up to stop her before its too late.
I'm confident that when it comes to the issues, she'll go back and fourth depending on her audience. She's a calculated politician. While her husband bobs heads, she bobs her answers, just another modified Clinton for you.
How can they be in favor of handing out driver's licenses when so many people oppose it - something like 70%?
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
driver's licenses for illegals is being debated here in Illinois as well. It was also debated in 2004, and guess who was at the forefront of trying to make it happen then, Barack Obama. Thus, driver's licenses for illegals is a loser for any of the front runners.
Here is the story.
Always tell the truth, George; it's the easiest thing to remember.
The question is whether our nominee will have the credibility to hammer her with it.
so I think that they will have the credibility. This was not a good moment for her however we will see just how bad it was. Remember this debate was still on MSNBC.
Always tell the truth, George; it's the easiest thing to remember.
So, having Hillary slip-up last night was not a bad thing. Granted, she's the annointed one. But that's not going to stop her foes from slinging their arrows when they see the opportunity. A couple of points about last nite. Tim Russert probably did not enjoy his evening; I'm certain Ms. Hillary's campaign hacks went after him with a vengence. Ms Hillary did not appreciate the question, nor the entire exchange between her, her colleagues, and Timmy - she was not prepared for that question (someone's ass is in a sling this afternoon). Ms. Hillary is a slippery eel; and if the public and the press do not demand that her SH papers be made public, we are nothing short of bona fide idiots. So, here's her four weak spots - the War; the WH Words; the 'proposals'; and the Wannabe citizens. Not bad, twelve months before the election
Democrats want free health care for illegal aliens, some want drivers licenses for illegal aliens, and most are weak on border security. If this comes to fruition, here’s a scenario: a terrorist comes to America from the battlefield after being injured. The terrorist gets into our country illegally due to our weak border security policies. He gets free health care at the American taxpayers expense. After he recoups, he goes to New York and gets a driver’s license, then rents a Ryder truck with the NY license. BOOM!!!!
None of these Democrats are serious people. They will pander at the American people’s expense.
Rudy has a great record on law and order. The difference will show very clearly when he finally gets to debate her.
"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it."
Rudy Giuliani
___________________________________
Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it."
Rudy Giuliani
From Adam Nagourney, NYT, late this afternoon.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/author/anagourney/
“Senator Clinton supports governors like Governor Spitzer who believe they need such a measure to deal with the crisis caused by this administration’s failure to pass comprehensive immigration reform,’” her campaign said.
But from the other side of her mouth...
Mrs. Clinton’s advisers said that she had not studied either plan, and was not specifically endorsing either of them.
This from the same family who gave us "It depends on what your defintion of "is" is."
I'm not suprised. Just disgusted that she and her louse...I mean spouse, are not in prison.
“Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation [of power] first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence.”
Thomas Jefferson
Chashand, I'm thoroughly convinced that that was just another pandering to a minority as well as another attempt to pad the polls with illegal votes. Democrats have been caught time and time again, from registering dead people (Chicago, St. Louis) to bribing homeless people with beer and cigarettes,(Milwaukee, 2000) and now bribing illegals to vote with the promise of handouts, bribing the lowest common denominator with whatever they can. In election years, the left repeatedly cries for the voting rights of convicted felons to be restored, what's next, a drive to let incarcerated inmates vote? Guess which side they'll support!"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." Sir Winston Churchill
Reading the commentary isn't enough. Pundits have focused on what she said. Precious little has been said about how she said it. This is the first time she's been under attack, and the first time this campaign where I've seen her and she has come across as flat-out unlikeable both to a conservative like myself, but also (I think) to the average voter.
She may not be as formidable a general election opponent as I had imagined.
link to video
http://www.myelectionanalysis.com