If this is an attack on Huckabee, keep attacking him, please.
By Erick Posted in 2008 — Comments (99) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
I realize this story about Huckabee in Utah is supposed to turn my stomach against him, but I find it oddly compelling me toward liking the guy even more -- even more from a small government perspective.
Government may have dropped the ball in modern American society, but religion dropped it first, Gov. Mike Huckabee told Southern Baptist pastors Sunday night. . . . "Government knows it does not have the answer, but it's arrogant and acts as though it does," Huckabee said. "Church does have the answer but will cowardly deny that it does and wonder when the world will be changed." . . . . "I'm often asked why taxes are so high and government is so big. It's because the faith we have in local churches has become so small. If we'd been doing what we should have -- giving a dime from every dollar to help the widows, the orphans and the poor -- we now wouldn't be giving nearly 50 cents of every dollar to a government that's doing ... what we should have been doing all along." . . . The most basic unit of government is not the city council, quorum court or state legislature, Huckabee said. "It is Mom and Dad raising kids and teaching them respect for authority, others and God."
I don't have much to quibble with in any of that.
It seems clear Huckabee recognizes that government is a problem, not a solution. It's clear he recognizes that government is an unyielding leviathan. I don't have a problem with that at all.
If I keep seeing hit jobs like this and the AIDS quote against Huckabee, I might take a real liking to the guy.
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If this is an attack on Huckabee, keep attacking him, please. 99 Comments (0 topical, 99 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
I thought the character of Huckabee is a big government republican hell bent on bloating government.
FWIW, the speech should be put in context and to who it was given. I think he is right. Had churches and people stepped up to help their neighbor, as Christ commands us to do, then people would be less likely to turn to government for an answer.
It's not the fact that more or less charity causes or solves poverty. The *principle* cause is economic conditions, and the principle driver of that is govt intervention.
What I mean is this:
- Socialism is a prescription for poverty
- The solution for poverty is economic growth and policies that get people working and self-sufficient; *that* is what Government should be about - pro-growth economic policies; meaning: low tax rates, less regulation, open up trade, etc.
Simply getting more charity out of churches won't cure bad economic policy.
By talking only in terms of poor as charity cases instead of possible future self-supporting working families, he shows that he really doesn't have much understanding of pro-growth economics. He is so far from the supply-side, its sad.
That could explain his populist statements and his railing against wall street. Gets good applause lines but makes for bad economic policy. I prefer Romney's "Deregulate, deregulate, deregulate ... and high standards" and Thompson's pushing tax and entitlement reform. Real solutions to the real problems.
Yet this thinking (or lack thereof) does tie in with his tax-and-spend record. He's not seeing the negative impact of his tax hikes on the economy:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2007/nov/14/taking-stock...
"It's worth noting that the fiscal reports done by Cato factor in spending policy as well as tax history, according to Stephen Slivinski, who produces the fiscal report cards. In 2006, Slivinski’s team gave Huckabee the lowest grade of any governor when it came to tax policy."
Conservatism is made up of social, economic and national security conservatism, three separate and equal forms of conservatism that balance each other. It's a three legged stool that needs all three legs to stand. This is why entitlement spending is as much a moral issue as an economic one, because it creates a dependency that destroys society.
Huck is a social conservative that is suspicious of capitalism at best and hostile towards it at worst, and a null value on national security. That makes him a populist, not a conservative. If being a social conservative is all it took to be a conservative then pro-protectionist, pro-union (anti free labor market), pro-life social conservative Catholics would be considered conservatives as well.
I'm really getting tired of this social conservatism = conservatism or is the most important part stuff. Huck is the poster child for that school of thought.
"Honor is self-esteem made visible in action." - Ayn Rand, West Point, 1974
To me it reads like red meat for the base (less government, more church) and your reaction to it tends to back up that reading. I disagree with most of what he said, then again I am not the target audience.
But do you have anything rational in your disagreement or is it just an "I don't believe you".
If its the latter just what do you dispute ?
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
If it is my disagreement that this is a hit piece then:
The article reports what Huckabee said and the gist of the book that he handed out to the invited press.
The gist of both is that the answers to our problems lie with the church rather than with the government and that both have failed (the church by doing too little and the government by doing too much). That seems well within the mainstream of Republican thought, particularly the brand of Republican he is playing to.
If it is my disagreement with his policies or vision of the problem; any forceful and cogent argument made by me on those points would likely end up with me being banned, so I'll pass for now.
It seems clear Huckabee recognizes that government is a problem, not a solution.
His very platform, a literal farmers' market of government solutions, says otherwise.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
If government is indeed part of the problem why is Huck all about proposing government solutions?
Notice he doesn't say that government inherently screws up all that it touches - he just says that government "dropped the ball." In other words, if only government worked better it wouldn't screw up so much.
Seriously. I don't know precisely where Erick stands on Huck any more than do you.
I think this is ludicrous conjecture on his part - this piece certainly does not read like a "hit piece" from Huck's home media organ - but it's more than a leap to go from that to "Erick likes Huckabee".
Just saying.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
and both sides of their mouths simultaneously and with great aplomb.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
But the more I see of Huck, the more I'm reminded of a classic fictional character:
Particularly, this guy's portrayal of, coincidently, a Governor of a southern state in this movie.
Can't help it.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
and is why i support thompson.
but i think huck is right.. but to me, the media is trying to make him sound like a religious lunatic (who is challenging someone's religion now).
Which notable candidate is advocating for the elimination of farm subsidies?
And what exactly about this is statist....
# The health care system in this country is irrevocably broken, in part because it is only a "health care" system, not a "health" system.
# We don't need universal health care mandated by federal edict.
# We do need to get serious about preventive health care.
# I advocate policies that will encourage the private sector to seek innovative ways to bring down costs.
# I value the states' role as laboratories for new market-based approaches.
# When I'm President, Americans will have more control of their health care options, not less.
# As President, I will work with the private sector, Congress, health care providers, and other concerned parties to lead a complete overhaul of our health care system.
# Our health care system is making our businesses non-competitive in the global economy. It is time to recognize that jobs don't need health care, people do, and move from employer-based to consumer-based health care.
There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy
Why is he talking about these at all unless he has some idea how to "fix" them at the federal level? Take your 3rd one as a "for instance"
"We do need to get serious about preventive health care."
Well, sure, maybe. What is the President going to do about that? Given that this is a guy who is on record with a national ban on smoking it's not hard to imagine his proposing a national mandate on "annual physicals for all!". No?
Which notable candidate is advocating for the elimination of farm subsidies?
None that I'm aware of, unfortunately.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
If you consider those positions Liberal then every politician, this side of Ron Paul, is a Liberal.
There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy
Let me "revise and extend", to use debate-speak:
# I advocate policies that will encourage the private sector to seek innovative ways to bring down costs.
Government doesn't "encourage" - they dictate.
# I value the states' role as laboratories for new market-based approaches.
Ah, but he's none too fond of Romney's Massachusetts experiment, eh?
# When I'm President, Americans will have more control of their health care options, not less.
I'm pretty sure St. Hillary said the same thing - I find that pap has about as much cred coming out of Huck, but to each his own.
# As President, I will work with the private sector, Congress, health care providers, and other concerned parties to lead a complete overhaul of our health care system.
Again, how is that going to become something other than Lord Huck dictating from on high? It's just the way these things work out.
There are lots and lots of reasons why health care/insurance costs are out of control, but (again, here's were our philosophies on these things are going to be a divide) I fail to see how more involvement at the federal level is going to provide anything remotely resembling a solution.
Honestly, I don't know what the solution(s) is (are), but I really seriously doubt they involve a government chartered round-table of "smart people".
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
Erick:
As a alternative delegate for Huckabee here in Illinois I couldn't agree with you more. I read the AIDS drive by and thought this is only going to help him solidify the base. Not because he believes it word for word today but that he has the ability to take a strong stance on a controversial issue. We have got a lot of milk toast from the others that will go unnamed and some bizarro from the rest. Seems Huck is hitting the right tone at the right time.
Mark W. Johnson
Founder
Il GOP Network
www.ilgopnet.com
I really hope that you're wrong that someone who said the things that Mike Huckabee said in 1992 would help him solidify his base.
Huckabee said ungiving individuals are responsible for higher taxes.
I thought tax hikes were so popular that the people of AR were begging him for more, more, more?
I don't see how this is a hit piece... unless the idea is to turn off the Democrats who support him. Most of his statements would be fine if we could just forgot what he spent the last 10 years doing in AR.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
I refer you to docj's post above.
I can't figure out why people (I'm throwing Erick in here too) like Huckabee despite the overwhemling evidence that he is a big-government economic populist. I think it is the same reason women liked Slick Willie: he talks a good game and makes conservatives feel comfortable because he is a southerner, is overtly religious, and has a sharp, quick witted tongue.
It seems that even with conservatives, sometimes style trumps substance sad to say.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
" "I didn't get into politics because I thought government had a better answer. I got into politics because I knew government didn't have the real answers, that the real answers lie in accepting Jesus Christ into our lives."
Huh? Does anyone know what this means exactly? How about approximately?
That is like buying a Ford because you want quality.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2007/12/019240.php
As Paul points out, it's from Isakoff and Newsweek, but if it turns out to be true...
Does anyone know about Huckabee's personal finances for the last 10 years? Has being governor of Arkansas been good for him?
I'm pretty surprised you "don't know" that the Government isn't that efficient in it's drug rehab programs...
...While intense Christian-Based drug rehab programs are life-changing, get people of drugs at a higher rate, and keep people off drugs so they never go back at a higher rate.
That the government is inefficient in helping seniors who have no pension, no family support, and live on their own (rather than an assisted living situation)...
...While Christian programs like "Meals On Wheels" work splendidly.
Would you like the list to go on? I think I've made my point.
Your response makes even less sense than the Huckabee comment you are replying to. What does drug rehab have to do with wanting to get into politics because government isn't the answer?
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
Not stupid politicians who think they can spend money better than people who earn it.
We can't enforce border laws because laws are mean and we want to be nice.
This is the world of Mike Huckabee. Someday he may come to the real one where we reside.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
my head hasn't stopped spinning yet.
Huckabee cut non-discretionary spending in Arkansas, when entitlements and federal-mandated programs grew, they had to be covered in order to balance the budget. Solution: reform the federally-mandated programs.
What is Huckabee saying? That if the Christian Community and various churches had done their part in the first place, then we wouldn't have a situation where the Government is filling in the gap with these federally-madated programs.
So, As a pastor, Huckabee's arguing that the Church should increase it's participation in assisting the poorest of the poor. As a politician, Huckabee's arguing that the Government participates in assisting the poorest of the poor inefficiently.
I don't find my Baptist, Catholic, Protestent, etc friends to be "selfish", and know many who give more than "10%". However, there are statistics that show a decreased involvement among church organizations in helping solve the ills of their particular communities. That lack of involvement is, what I believe, Huckabee is highlighting here.
And now he gets to say that he's not to blame for 'entitlement' spending that thusly resulted from *his own* proposals?
"when entitlements and federal-mandated programs grew, they had to be covered in order to balance the budget. Solution: reform the federally-mandated programs."
Um no, solution was to raise taxes.
"According to the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, the average Arkansas tax burden increased 47% over Huckabee’s tenure. "
Huckabee is slicker than a greased salmon!
Elmer Gantry knows what the conservatives want to hear and he mouths the perfect platitudes.
This guy makes George C Scott (Flim Flam Man) look like Abe Lincoln.
Huckabee knows he can only make it if he can snow enough conservatives long enough to stay in the race.
If by chance he pulls up to possible contender he will shift gears and start to suck up to Rudy's crowd.
What he said in Utah is true of course. He is as slick as Bill Clinton ever dared to be and will say whatever he has to say to sway those people who want a conservative so bad they will wear blinders and buy any Con Man who comes down the pike.
The man is a Charlatan pure and simple.
But when you look at the pandering and sucking up of the other weasels at the Spanish speaking debate you realize just how gutless and shallow political whores really are.
When a person has a certain opinion about someone, that person will see what they want to see.
Regardless of a person's faith, I would say, "Put your faith in something much bigger than government." Don't look for goverment to solve your problems (although when government does look to do things like build roads, educate children, and protect itself, it should do so effectively).
I can see why you ask, because we tend to fawn over Goldwater 1.0 while we swoon for Reagan 2.0, but it should be pretty clear which is the good one, which also happens to be the one running.
Instead of upgrading to wife 2.0
Just look at the trouble his attempts to uninstall caused.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
If we'd been doing what we should have -- giving a dime from every dollar to help the widows, the orphans and the poor -- we now wouldn't be giving nearly 50 cents of every dollar to a government that's doing ... what we should have been doing all along."
That's about as factually misleading as it could possibly be.
The implication is that people are paying a nearly 50% tax rate and that the government is spending that money on what churches and families should be doing.
So, if American taxpayers are paying almost 50% of their income to fund what churches should have been doing, how will the smaller number of church goers be able to provide for the same needs with only a 10% "tax?" Ah, the new, new math.
I can't wait for the Huckabee presidency. Can we expect a Defense Department funded by tithing congregations?
This speech was given in a Baptist Convention - I believe.
That given, no one is getting this as its in its context. Huckabee is 100% correct.
If churches had not dropped its mission, given by Christ, and become self centered then people would not be looking to government for everything.
How many millions of dollars has been spent on new church buildings which could be spent on helping the poor.
He is right and this conversation is one being held within the Christian community currently.
Mr. Huckabee strikes me as a traditional Conservative who is guided by his religious beliefs more than his political ideology.
For those people looking for a libertarian, Mike Huckabee is certainly not the answer.
For those people looking for someone who is guided primarily by morality, he might be.
There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy
Really? What part of the "traditional Conservative" mindset includes the idea that "Government fixes things"?
I've known a fair number of "traditional Conservatives" in my day and, from what I've seen, even the ones for whom their policies were guided by morality were squarely in the "Government stinks at fixing things" school of thought.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
I know many devout Conservatives who fully support programs such as Welfare or Food Stamps.
It's not that they believe in government solving problems as much as they believe in helping the poor in any way they can.
There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy
It's safe to say flyerhawk that you and I run in very different circles.
Good to hear from you, though.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
Good to hear from you as well, doc.
There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy
It all comes down to how you want to define the words.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
I wasn't trying to make the claim that Huckabee is the only true Conservative or anything like that.
I was simply trying to point out that Huckabee is NOT a Liberal by any means.
There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy
Is that you and I don't find conservative the same way. And Ronulans define it yet another way.
I was simply trying to point out that Huckabee is NOT a Liberal by any means.
He is a liberal. We got a whole group of Democrats who come here and defend the guy and tell us he's they could almost vote for the guy. There's a reason for that... and it isn't that he's a conservative.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
Because you are either a conservative or a student of Karl Marx. Nothing in-between. Note that I said "liberal" not "marxist." His record in AR speaks to his fiscal liberalism.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
I just took it from your post that Huckabee was some sort of socialist when I dont believe he is.
Does he believe in too much government for me? Yup, but that does nothing to erase the point made in his speech during the convention.
Huckabee has advocated strongly in his words or actions that he is an evangelist of the Government "fixing things". Please.
I've just about had enough of seeing this crap.
Yeah, Huckabee raised various fees, even added a surchage on the income tax during a short-term recession in order to balance the budget- then recinded it. He's not a purist. But all about the Government "fixing things" is absolutely not the case.
Why did spending increase in Arkansas? Did you look? It increased on entitlement programs including the State's contribution regarding federal mandates on Medicaid, Medicare, and court orders regarding education and educational infrastructure creation. It also increased in road construction, where over 80% of the population agreed there was a major problem the Government needed to solve.
Did he push for "more dollars" for welfare moms? Did he push the Arkansan Government to spend more dollars frivolously? If so, where? when? Spending money on road construction is not frivolous, and when a state government is obligated under laws and court orders to increase spending- WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT THE FACT HE NEEDED A COURT ORDER TO SPEND MORE!!!
Did he say "Oh, there's an issue we should spend more" on such and such. No, he needed a court order to do so!
Now, in regard to his comments from 1998 at a Southern Baptist Convention, you take his notion that the Church should take a greater involvement in solving the ills of society and cast that as Huckabee wants the Government to do so? Please, let's get back to reality and stop spitting out talking points.
This stuff tends to chap me severely. It is not the mission of Christ to run the most successful charity program in the world.
The mission given by Christ will not solve the problems of big government. Christ lived during a time of really big government. That government did not change because of Christianity, it fell because of the Goths.
If the church was true to the mission given Christ, then the church would be true to the mission given by Christ. Period. It would not have solved the problems of society, big government, or sin. Building smaller church buildings would not solve the problems of promiscuity, or greed, or any other problem outside of the church.
Finally, the problem of the American poor is not millions misspent by the church. If children go hungry, it is because of parental neglect. There are plenty of programs to feed children if the parents can't. If people are not educated, it is the fault of parents who don't make sure their children take advantage of misspent billions on educational programs. And so on.
The mission of the church is to preach the gospel of Christ, not run the biggest charity service in the world.
Your wrote
The mission of the church is to preach the gospel of Christ...
Does that gospel include Mark 12:28-31? Luke 10:25-28? Luke 6:30?
might fix it
The Unofficial RedState FAQ
“You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say. ” - Martin Luther
He is right and this conversation is one being held within the Christian community currently.
You're speaking my thoughts exactly. And I think that's another part of the "context" that Isn't going to be found in that specific article or even in the speech he gave.
"If churches had not dropped its mission, given by Christ, and become self centered then people would not be looking to government for everything."
That's simply a false statement, on many levels.
#1 - *has* charity gone down? I doubt it. USA has always been generous, and I doubt that it is less so now than in previous times.
#2 - The 'need' for Government is driven by a socialist ideology. It's pro-growth policies that is the real cure (see previous comment 'Huck doesn't get capitalism')
#3 - If lack of church involvement drives Government spending, which of these Huckabee tax hikes are the fault of insufficient church charity? It's a cop out to blame church for big govt, since there are so many other factors involved ...
...
* Sales Tax, 1996 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 11/07/96)
* Gas and Diesel Fuel Taxes, 1999 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 04/02/99, 04/25/99)
* Sales Tax, 2000 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 09/25/02)
* Cigarette Tax, 2001 (Associated Press, 04/02/01)
* Nursing Home Bed Tax, 2001 (Associated Press, 06/25/01)
* Sales Tax, 2002 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 11/15/02)
* Income Surcharge Tax, 2003 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 10/09/07)
* Tobacco Tax, 2003 (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 10/09/07)
* Internet Taxes, 2004 (Bond Buyer, 02/24/04)
Take someone who pays, oh, 30% in federal income tax, 10% in state tax, 8% in sales tax, plus a heap of other taxes... and you can get to 50%.
...that's not what Huckabee is saying. He's talking about the federal government.
And my quibble wasn't as much with the 50% figure as with the idea that tithing church goers with an effective tax of 10% would be able to raise the money necessary to take care of the widows, orphans, and poor...and all of the other things that federal dollars pay for. And I'm not including anything but domestic social programs. You can be for it or against it, but if there were no Medicare our health insurance/health care situation would be a lot worse than it is. The same goes for other programs, you can oppose them, but Huckabee's "plan" won't get churches to fill the gap with a mere 10% "tax" rate.
He's speaking to a group of pastors. So rather than saying "Government", he should say "Federal Government"...
My gosh... pick pick pick pick pick (on trivial stuff!)
Plus, he's not talking to these pastors saying "we need to get all of our members to give 10%", but more along the lines of "we need to be more responsible with the 10% we receive".
The story isn't his comments so much as that he spoke at the Southern Baptist Convention in SLC in 1998. You know the one that was hyped as a chance for the Baptists to convert the Mormons. As the article mentioned, Anti-Mormon material was being distributed.
If Huckabee is on the ticket, and the Democratic campaign has any brains, then this could be an interesting election in the Mountain West states.
Its plain that the story was pushed as a hit piece to make Huckabee out to be a religous loon.. but, I like Erick, tend to think more of Huckabee after reading the piece.
Thompson is still my first choice by far and yes, I am hoping for a miracle.
If Huckabee can come from no where to here, then surely Fred has a chance.
...Fred has a chance."
It's good not to give up hope, but one has only to look at Fred and listen to him for a few minutes to realize that he doesn't have the personal attributes to fuel a big surge. Political campaigns are pretty superficial and Huckabee has a lot of superficial skills. He's lively, articulate, and has a sense of humor. Fred? Well, Fred has always played pretty much the same character in his films and that played a lot better in small character roles than it does as leading man in a campaign for the presidency.
It would indeed be a miracle. Still, Romney, Giuliani, and Huckabee all have serious negatives that could bring them down.
Both the races (Dem and GOP) are quite volatile. Clinton's "inevitability" is looking a bit tattered and no Republican has any hint of inevitability that I can see.
So, maintain your hope, but don't be too surprised if...
Even as someone who wavers between an agnostic non church goer and an athiest I don't really disagree with this; but there would need to be a secular alternative for those that don't belong to a church. I guess it would be sort of like insurance, but I like to think of it as church without the weekly meetings and bible study.
First line of defense should be family.
Second friends and community (including church).
and last should be gov, and in this case it shouldn't be fee handouts unless they are totally disabled; give them a job to do for their money.
FDR and LBJ came along. The churches were responsible for helping out widows, fatherless, and other groups. However, the moment churches neglected the responsibility of ministering to such groups, the government stepped in. Naturally, it's too a simplistic explanation, so Huckabee was technically correct.
Think about it. In early American history, it was churches and parents who taught children to read and write, it wasn't until Horace Mann who fought hard for public schools, that led to demise of private schools around Boston. Every time goernment steps it, something bad always happen. Huckabee realized that when he entered politics.
However, I'm not totally blind, perhaps Huckabee came around and felt that government can occasionally do something good and worthwhile. I don't know, and I'm not going to claim I can divine Huckabee's true intents anymore than Erick or anybody else for that matter.
Finally, isn't it ironic, if it weren't for Christ, America wouldn't exist? Perhaps that's what Huckabee was hintin at? Food for thought, that's all.
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Daniel 2:20 And he [God] changeth the times and seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding.
Erick,
I was telling Jeff a few days ago that Huckabee is growing on me a lot. I couldn't agree more with Huck's statement above, and he completely nails the issue. All GOP candidates have basically the same platform on their website (except Ron Paul), but I couldn't find anything on Huck's that I didn't like after a cursory read. I know Huck has a big government record, but all the GOP candidates are distancing themselves from their record of not four years ago. Rudy has his immigration and 2nd amendment issues that he's backing away from, Mitt, his pro-life and universal health care flip flop, McCain his immigration failure (I haven't heard him say the original bill was bad, but he has certainly distanced himself), and Huck has his big government image that he's trying shed.
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And statesmen at her council met
Who knew the seasons when to take
Occasion by the hand, and make
The bounds of freedom wider yet
- Tennyson, _To the Queen_
That said, we need a fiscal con in the WH to reign in government spending. Huckabee isn't it. And, after a conversation I had last night, I think Huck would be too willing to work with the Dems on social spending. Rudy would probably tick them off too much on the areas of disagreement that he wouldn't work with them on the areas of relative agreement.
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And statesmen at her council met
Who knew the seasons when to take
Occasion by the hand, and make
The bounds of freedom wider yet
- Tennyson, _To the Queen_
In Arkansas? And when has he said he was for doing so Nationally? Speaking with compassion is not the same as speaking with dollars. I remember Huckabee touting his "tax me more fund" in order to prove public support was against tax increases an additional spending, especially frivolous areas.
Spending money efficiently(key=efficiently) on roads and infrastructure development is a role we rely on Government to provide. Especially State Governments.
"When was he for more social spending?"
When he proposed and passed the ArKids program in the late 1990s and expanded state medicaid spending.
This big spending program, plus increases in education spending were the drivers for his large tax increases in 2002 and 2003.
"But nine days after being reelected in 2002, he proposed a sales tax increase to cover a budget deficit caused partly by large spending increases that he proposed and approved, including an expansion in Medicare eligibility that Huckabee made a centerpiece of his 1997 agenda. He agreed to a 3 percent income tax “surcharge” and a 25-cent cigarette tax increase. In response to a court order to increase spending on education, Huckabee proposed another sales tax increase."
http://www.taxhikemike.org/
he could have argued that his tax increases were all consumption-based. I hope he firmly believes in the FAIR tax as much as he says he does now.
Sales taxes are the biggest weapon in the tax-and-spend arsenal.
But it is telling that he's claiming to want to repeal Federal income tax (will never happen), while he could have but never sought to repeal the state income tax (far more possible, since many states like Texas manage well enough with it).
i read it and thought the same thing, Erick. Huckabee has said a lot of stuff that I disagree with, but this is not one of those. Government wasn't founded to be a social services organization. We should leave serving the poor and needy to those service organizations/churches/etc. that are best equipped to do it.
I could see very little in that article to condemn and much to compliment. It doesn't excuse the rest of the junk that surrounds him, but this particular one is good.
The Unofficial RedState FAQ
“You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say. ” - Martin Luther
I hope more stories come out about Huckabee in the next few weeks. He seems to be moving past them as the press jumps on the next story a blogger supporting Mitt or Fred dug up. If you really want to damage him you should let one story stick. I feel the same way about Rudy. There's so much stuff going around that it almost makes me ignore the whole thing. again, less is more.
Big Government is not the answer. You have to love your neighbor, as Christianity teaches, not your fellow taxpayer or state-mandated welfare recipient, as taught by...well, you know.
Big Church is not the answer, either. And Huckabee did seem to forget his guiding principles sometimes as governor. But that's not suprising. After the Fall in Eden, Adam's spin doctoring announced the advent of...the first politician, the fruit of Original Sin.
That's all I need to say since I've made that clear and my analysis of this article would be biased.
How's that for honesty?
Mike HUckabee is absolutely right. If the churches were taking proper care of their widows and orphans, we would have no need of such high taxes. Matter of fact, I believe that taxes should be only 10%, no more, everyone required to pay. No exceptions, no deductions and no loopholes. Flat rate 10% for every person no matter what their income level is. Makes for smaller government already because the IRS would no longer be needed. The H&R Block people could operate if needed, but a one page tax form simple enough for a democrat to figure out would be all that is necessary.
I was under the false impression that this "hit jobs" was written and published in Utah. Not until I went back and clicked on the link did I realize that it was from an Arkansas newspaper.
Glad I did because now I know who the people handing out books and literature at this convention view as the real enemy.
Walt Disney and the LDS Church. I'm sure Huck doesn't his fellow Ministers are doing it.
I don't mind what Huckabee said, in fact I like it.
But what the OP doesn't mention is that the Southern Baptist Convention is in Salt Lake because they are going to go preach to the Mormons about how they aren't Christian and need to repent or they are going to hell!
Now, I don't object to Baptists coming to Salt Lake and trying to convert Mormons. I mean we Mormons go down south and try to convert Baptists. Fair is fair after all.
But if Mitt Romney went and spoke to a convention of Mormon missionaries in South Carolina planning to convert Baptists I would be appalled!
Why does Huckabee think he can do the equivalent! This is just more of that "wink and a nod" towards evangelical animosity towards Mormons that he has been doing- and it is being to make me very mad.
If Republicans don't want Mormons in their party, maybe we just won't vote in November.
Here's one Republican who doesn't want Mormons to leave the Republican party. I agree that the mixing of politics and religion that has been occuring during this Republican race has been disturbing.
I'm not a Mormon. But I have a very high opinion of the way Mormons conduct themselves. I also think that it would be a big loss if the Republican party lost the support of Mormons. Mormons like Utah's Bennett and Hatch, Idaho's Crapo and Arizona's Flake are all great public officials.
Me and my family are southern baptist and we were just talking last night about all the baptist-mormon debates going on. We were all of the same belief that mormons were some of the nicest and most morally based people we'd ever met.
I personally think a lot of the animocity is just hype for headlines and doesn't represent the majority of us on either side.
So as far as my vote for Huckabee or Romney??
GO FRED!!
What's interesting is that now Huckabee has a surge of support, his supporters are now circling their wagons rather than engaging in defending their guy's record and debating the merits of his policy stances. Huckabee supporters, by and large (not entirely) are downright giddy about reporting the latest polls, but are not seriously defending either his record or electability- I just do not think that he appeals to securitycons, fiscal cons, or libertarians. Marry that with the fact that the Clintonistas will have plenty of opposition research to use against him, and he looks like a general election loser. Huckabee supporters- use your reason- he is not a strong candidate outside of social conservative circles, and he will not hold up under withering Democratic fire.
Heaven forbid Huckleberry gets questioned now on his past positions. I'm sure Hillary and Ickes won't bring it up during the General. Sometimes I think Erick and Soren have never studied anything about politics...
There is so much wrong with what he said here I don't know where to begin. It's almost as if he is justifying big government because people don't go to church enough.
If elected, does this mean as long as we all agree to increase our tithing to 10% that Huck will get some religion on lower taxes?
Ugh.
it means that we will have some form of welfare in this country to help the poor and needy and that if the churches don't do it, the government WILL.
Saying otherwise is denying the obvious.
There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy
That charities aren't already doing a better job of helping the needy than than the inept Feds?
Also, taxes are taken at the point of a gun. How you can compare that to Charity has me scratching my head.
you are confused.
The end result of charity and Federal welfare is the exact same thing. You can talk about paying taxes at the point of the gun until you're blue in the face but this is the compact Americans make with one another. We pay taxes and agree to pay the bill for ALL programs approve by Congress. You don't get to pick and choose which programs you approve of and which ones are extorted from you.
Charities may be more efficient but they don't cover nearly enough people, and that's with massive tax breaks for charitable donations which many Conservatives would like to abolish.
There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy
Last night he openly admitted that he changed his stance on Cuba after he started running for President. We need someone who is consistent in their views, not as one person put it, a Pander Bear.
Mike: "I'm often asked why taxes are so high and government is so big."
RainbowRepublican: Because you kept raising taxes and increasing spending as Governor of Arkansas. Practice what you preach, preacher man.
In fact, this statement makes me wonder why he's running for president at all if he thinks that government is doing too much because churches aren't doing enough. If this truly is his position, then shouldn't he drop out of the presidential election and go back to being a preacher and lead the charge for churches to start performing more social services?
It is something that he would certainly be far more qualified to do than be president of the United States.