I'm sorry, Senator Obama: did you say 50 hours a *week*?
Audacity of Hope, indeed.
By Moe Lane Posted in 2008 | Obama | Robber Barons | Scrooge | Watch Them Fix This in a Hurry — Comments (27) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
For middle schoolers. You want to get 11 to 14 year olds to work overtime hours for community service.
No, really. From Mark Halperin and Senator Obama's own site, we can see that this is an actual proposed goal:
* Establish a goal of having middle and high-schoolers contribute at least 50 hours a week to community service, and reach that goal through national guidelines for service-learning and additional resources for schools to develop successful programs.
Screenshots here and here. [And, to be fair, a contradictory PDF.]
Read on.
Ed Morrissey is kind enough to suggest that this was Obama's people being sloppy (H/T, by the way). Very likely: Lord knows that, while we've heard much of the greatness of Obama's character, personality, drive, charisma, and general resemblance to the Messiah, we have not heard overmuch about the greatness of his organizational skills. So I suppose that it's possible, or even probable, that his team didn't mean to make their candidate sound like he was about to advocate policies that would warm the heart of a 19th Century Robber Baron.
But let's say that the idea was really to encourage 50 hours a year. Here are two questions:
1). Why is it a good idea to get an eleven year old to do one hour of community service a week?
...with the related:
2). Why does a Presidential candidate think that the government should be involved in answering Question 1?
From where I'm sitting, I figure that I could answer Question 1 in a way that would please Senator Obama's staff... but darned if all the reasonable answers to Question 2 don't reflect badly on their candidate.
And, shoot, I haven't even looked at the rest of the proposal yet.
Moe
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I'm sorry, Senator Obama: did you say 50 hours a *week*? 27 Comments (0 topical, 27 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
And I'm still waiting to hear that answer to Question 2. :)
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
I'm on an email list that has some Obama staff on it. They confirmed that this was a mistake in the initial press release that went out.
It's still uncorrected on their site, as of 2:56 PM.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
...they can go ahead and answer my questions. :)
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
Why should he ask middle schoolers to put in longer hours than a US Senator puts in? (Not counting time spent running for reelection or fundraising of course.)
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
The questions remain:
Why should the government be doing this?
and the question whose answer I suspect I would like even less:
HOW should the government accomplish this?
The how is the killer. I see only two ways to turn the vision into actuality (assuming that Obama is set on seeing this happen and that this isn't some statement of how he's going to do a first-lady-like crusade to increase sevice):
1. You directly impose regulations requiring such service with attendant penalties.
2. Or you use "regulation by funding" - cutting off some or all funding to states, localities, and schools that do not agree to add service requirements to the mandatory curriculum for graduation. Since pretty much everybody is so dependent on federal funding for just about anything, this is the "constitutional" way for Congress to do things that would be unconstitutional under the delegated powers.
2b. Again "regulation by funding" - but instead of the schools being punished, you "encourage" students to volunteer by making later benefits contingent on having done so - say Federal college grants and loans and other government-sponsored or funded aid programs (maybe deny education deductions and credits to those who have not met the standard).
All are, to me, patently ridiculous.
I think its good to encourage our youth to volunteer and get them involved in the community earlier in life- I had a service requirement at my private high school and it was a great compliment to formal education. I don't see why public schools can't have similar requirements for graduation. I don't know if Obama is seeking to mandate it or just encourage schools to adopt it, but the idea in itslef I think is a good one.
...required community service at the expense of requiring that students understand the difference between declarative and interrogative statements.
We were required to understand sentence classification in 10th grade English - but that doesn't help me understand your nonresponsive, non-sequiter here; I'm sure you have a relevant point, I just don't see it was it is.
A private school is well in its rights to require community service as a graduation requirement, for that matter a private school could require proof of participation in any “legal” activity as a graduation requirement. Let’s say a far left politically oriented private school could require proof of attendance at an anti-war rally / demonstration as a graduation requirement if wanted to (This would put a school out of business in most of the country, but might actually increase enrolment out on the “Left Coast” ). This is because it is a private school, and you and / or your parents chose for you to attend that school. Therefore you are not being “compelled” to participate in any activity they require because you have the choice of going to the public school. In a public school, any requirements are requirements that are forced on you by the state. The state has no business compelling any type of public service requirement. The state should only use a forced sentence of public service as a punishment in the court system. Now a school could give incentives such as awards, recognition and / or extra privileges for student participation in community service, as I believe some schools currently do.
Tabling the issue for now whether government should be in the business of education at all; once they are, if they can require Math why not require community service, so long as it is a broadly designed requriement to not infringe on freedom of religion or association. I think our schools should return to teaching civics and instilling notions of civic duty - and this might be a great avenue for that (though I don't see how a federal mandate would work anyway, but that is a different question).
However, if Obama really wants to make this a reality he shouldn't bother with congress, he should lobby the NCAA to add it to their requirements for eligibility. That would be the quickest way to get indiviudal schools on board.
See my post below:
“Once the government has the right to compel a citizen to perform an action or service not related to warfare, then we are no longer a free country. What will be the next thing people are compelled to do? This is the path that leads to forced labor. Let’s see … to take care of the homeless all able bodied persons shall work 20 hours a year on building homes for those less fortunate … to eliminate the hungry, all able bodied persons shall work 2 hours per week in the community garden to provide food for those less fortunate. Sounds like a step toward government controlled society to me. “
It is un-American for the government to compel a private citizen to provide free labor regardless of how righteous the intent might be. I am sure that any court would hold this action as unconstitutional as well.
One of the reasons I decided to homeschool was because the school spent more time teaching crap, like diversity, global warming, rain forest, insert left wing cause du jour here and not enough time teaching what they should have been. My son knew multiplication and square roots in 2nd grade in fourth he was still bringing home division problems because they teach for the lowest common denominator. The U.S. spends thousands more per student than any other country, but what are they learning. Look here and you'll see it isn't much.
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/12/04/the-continuing-curse-of-fuzzy-math/
Regards,
A Civics Lesson on Day One.
But don't just pick on the middleschoolers.
McCain has done a good job of discussing "daily patriotism" and I hope every candidate will move this idea forward.
1) There's nothing wrong with an 11-yr-old doing community service. Even an 11-yr-old can pick up trash in the park or help in the nursery at church. However,...
2) (and I'm not a presidential candidate) There's NO WAY the gubmint has any business dictating this. None.
My kids' private school requires community service. I have no issue with that. It's my choice to send my kids to a school that requires community service.
The Unofficial RedState FAQ
“You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say. ” - Martin Luther
1. This IS NOT a government function! Once they start a program like this with a Dem president, how will they then expand the requirements? You know a government program is never going to decrease in size or scope.
2. How many thousands of kids can be used effectively in most communities? Whose is going to organize this massive effort? New government employees we pay for?
3. How are they going to offset the carbon footprint of transporting these thousands of students to and from work areas? I mean, this is the same group screaming about global warming.
Once the government has the right to compel a citizen to perform an action or service not related to warfare, then we are no longer a free country. What will be the next thing people are compelled to do? This is the path that leads to forced labor. Let’s see … to take care of the homeless all able bodied persons shall work 20 hours a year on building homes for those less fortunate … to eliminate the hungry, all able bodied persons shall work 2 hours per week in the community garden to provide food for those less fortunate. Sounds like a step toward government controlled society to me.
We compell students to attend school (at least in every jurisdiction I've ver lived in); once there we compell to spend time in specific classes, why not reserve one hour a week of that time where we are alreay compelling their actions for them to choose between a homeless shelter, hospital, soup kitchen, religious institution etc.
They choose to be moral.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
Though its probably more like they can be compelled to be taught. But while their ultimate moral disposition is their choice, adolescents are still developing their value system, which is why I think introducing them to community service and civics at that stage is so valuable. The choice hasn't been finalized yet and we owe it to them to give them the right influences (and by we I'm not trying to exclude parents or it takes a village, just that we are already making htem a captive audience to teachers and should take advantage of it - if parents want to opt them out that is their perrogative as well).
Maybe we can have the children wear brown shirts while they do their chores for the country.
proposing some form of compulsory voluntary community service program for our youth. And then, as though that wasn't enough of a oxymoron, it seems like he proposed to pay them for it.
I could be wrong, but it seems that he tried to float something like this.
How long do you think it would take for us to hear about some teacher taking her class for their civics lesson to the nearest recruiters office to protest the "illegal war in Iraq"?
I give it two days
Regards,
I thought that sounded crazy too. Looks like the full plan PDF says it's 50 hours per *year*.