Let's Return to My Huckabee Thoughts [UPDATED with info on Ron Paul]
By Erick Posted in 2008 — Comments (119) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
The other day I said all the attacks on Huckabee come across as so anti-evangelical, so anti-southern, and so anti-social conservative that the attacks are doing nothing but helping Mike Huckabee.
I expect him to go up in the polls even further as a result of the establishment New York-Washington Corridor of Mainstream IntelligentsiaTM and parts of the New York-Washington Corridor of Conservative IntelligentsiaTM attack his Christmas ad.
Jesus Christ! Seriously. Jesus Christ -- that's what people are hung up on him saying. And there's the floating cross segment of a book shelf in the background that the truly paranoid saw immediately (I only noticed it as something extra after all the cries from people -- most of whom I suspect were just upset that their candidate didn't think of doing such an ad first).
Are we suppose to be upset by that? Seriously? Christians can't talk about their faith in an advertisement that they are paying for? I never thought I'd see the day when Jesus Christ being mentioned in a political ad in a positive way upset anyone -- especially Bill Donahue.
Catholic League president Bill Donahue said Huckabee went beyond wishing people a joyous holiday. Donahue said he was especially disturbed by the cross-like image created by a white bookcase in the background of the ad, saying he believed it was a subliminal message."What he's trying to say to the evangelicals in western Iowa (is): I'm the real thing," Donahue said Tuesday on Fox News Channel's "Fox and Friends. "You know what, sell yourself on your issues, not on what your religion is."
Sometimes a bookshelf is just a bookshelf. Sometimes a "Merry Christmas ad" is just a Merry Christmas ad made all the more refreshing because the candidate is not afraid of his faith. And sometimes the criticism lodged at the candidate reveals yet again that while many in the establishment right want evangelicals in the coalition, they just really don't want them in leadership positions or talking prominently about their faith.
For the love of God people, it's Christmas and Jesus! You attack Huckabee for that ad, you do nothing but help him -- and deservedly so.
[UPDATE:] Forget Huckabee talking about Jesus, I have photographic evidence that Ron Paul holds Jesus in his hand!!!!
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Let's Return to My Huckabee Thoughts [UPDATED with info on Ron Paul] 119 Comments (0 topical, 119 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
I'm not sure that I know any evangelicals that believe talking about the birth of Christ at Christmastime is an attempt at "distraction" and "obfuscation". And, let's just say that I know a lot of evangelicals.
All evangelicals I know would be refreshed to hear a national leader speak in the simple terms we all do about our Lord.
The paranoid outcries about the "cross" and rants like yours just reinforces our suspicions that a man with real faith is unelectable as far as the modern elitist-secular establishment is concerned. (But, perhaps the will of the people will prevail regardless.)
A man who can compartmentalize his faith -- turn it off or box it up -- is not a man of faith. Either Jesus Christ is the Lord of your life -- your whole life -- or He is not your Lord.
I would not trust any man to keep the tenants of some arbitrary political doctrine when he has a duality of conscience -- "read my lips" GHWB is a good example, Bill Clinton is another.
Do the evangelicals you know who believe in talking about the birth of Christ as Christmastime (as I am fond of doing myself) then go around telling everyone that they should be elected to public office because of it? Do they tell people at work that they should be running their department or their company because even though they don't have the experience or intellect necessary to do so, HEY - THEY'RE CHRISTIAN LEADERS!
Give me a break.
Even more outrageous is your implication that people who run an ACTUAL POLICY-BASED CAMPAIGN are compartmentalizing their faith. According to your deeply flawed logic, only the candidate whose entire platform is "elect me because I'm a 'Christian leader'" is not compartmentalizing his faith. Do you know how absolutely outrageous that sounds?
I've spent a lot of time shooting down liberals who made crazy accusations about Republicans wanting to implement a Christian theocracy in America. Well I can no longer call them nuts because obviously there is a significant Huckabee-backing portion of the Republican party who apparently DOES want a Christian theocracy in America.
Now my only hope is that anyone but "forget my record, I'm a Christian leader" Tax Hike Mike Huckabee is nominated so I can say, "well, at least not a MAJORITY of Republicans want a Christian theocracy."
How ironic that you now sound like a "liberal who made crazy accusations".
If Mike Huckabee wins, I do not expect him to govern in any manner but as that prescribed by the Constitution of the United States within the duties and responsibilities of his office. There is no evidence that he did anything other than that as Governor of Arkansas.
You may disagree with many of his policy positions. I do too. Fine. But, you and the anti-Huck blowhards are the ones making a big deal about his religion.
What alternative universe are you living in. MIKE HUCKABEE IS THE ONE MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF HIS RELIGION!
He's the only one running calling people "tattle tales" when they point out his lousy record and lousy positions which are more reminiscent of a Democrat than a Republican. And then he raises as his defense that he is a "Christian leader" in one ad and then comes out with a big glowing white cross with angelic light shining down as he says, "Merry Christmas. I'm Mike Huckabee and I approved this ad."
Huckabee wants a nation wide smoking ban. How in the world is that Constitutional? No other Republican candidate demonstrates such a profound ignorance of the Constitution. I would trust any of the others to at least TRY to act Constitutionally. But Huck doesn't even care about trying, he'll just do whatever he thinks his right. Tyranny of the self-righteous, here we come!
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
They aren't required to tithe... that would only be 10%. The Huckster saw to it that more than that was confiscated by the time he was done. :)
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
I mean seriously, this guy has done nothing but talk about his religion/religiousness. Why would he place an obscure "cross" in the background in an ad, my guess is if he wanted a cross there would have been a real one. Finally, I guess this means that any future ads by Huckabee (or any other candidate) must utilize non-euclidian structures for shelves so we don't end up with crosses anymore.
I saw it right away.
And for good reasons or not they planned on putting it in the ad.
It was a very good ad and it will give him the win in Iowa and SC. It will be an ad we are talking about 10 years from now.
What I can't believe is what he said today that it wasn't planned. -2 points for lack of integrity.
...on it.
Sheesh. I can't wait for March, when hopefully we'll have picked somebody to be the candidate.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
Originally I thought it was a window with a reflection
Now I am pretty certain its an oddly shaped shelf ( Funny Most shelves don't have a square aspect ratio)
Guess that makes me politically unreliable.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Essentially a mathematical description consisting of n-tuples describing something that may or may not exist or have existed in physical reality.
So perhaps yes.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
So its a set of n-tuples describing the description of the possible physical reality after having been transformed and noise added and information removed.
So abstracting the abstraction perhaps more so.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
your original comment was
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Huckabee is slipping in Iowa! He is behind Romney in an InsiderAdvantage poll and only leads by 1 point in a recent Rasmussen poll.
Oh dear heavens...both Ron Paul and I have iPhones...we have something in common...I'm going to find a bathroom....
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill
I don't agree with Bill Donahue on much, but we should, and it's being what Erick called us, "New York-Washington Corridor of Mainstream IntelligentsiaTM" either.
Perhaps, if Huckabee was selling something beyond Jesus, we might have something rail against. The guy has a serious martyr complex. Just as Bill and Hillary detested anyone going after their record and called it sleaze to do so, so goes the other occupant of 1800 Center Street.
Who? Who is over-reacting?
Pretty sure no-one has attacked him for saying Merry Christmas.
I've seen is people pointing out how cynical and unbecoming it is for him to exploit his religion as a trump card and sole reason to vote for him.
Let's leave the identity politics to the Democrats.
Attacking Mike for exploiting his religion is not an attack on religion.
If Huckabee wearing his religion on his sleave is a negative, it will have the effect all by itself. Pointing it out as a negative does exactly what Erick suggests. It pisses off the culture warriors. It makes them more commited to the Huckster! Not less. They won't take the time to see his real liabilities to conservatives.
I think the best thing we can do to make him go away, and save this nomination process, is to ignore him.
Go Fred!
Remember, Huckabee did two things with his ad:
1) Staked his claim as a leader of the religious-culture warrior branch of the so-cons.
2) Tried to silence the opposition to his campaign by claiming that anyone with substantive ads would be violating the true meaning of Christmas.
It's the interplay of these two that was so clever. People are criticizing him on point 2 - you can't shut everyone up by saying that they are un-Christian if they have the gall to run a comparison ad against you. Using Christ and Christmas to make that kind of claim is appalling, especially considering how much he's used religion to justify his candidacy ("my B.A. in Biblical Studies gives me the best preparation to fight Islamic extremism")
However, each time someone attacks him on point 2, he plays the victim as if they are attacking him on point 1, feeding into the "cultural warrior" image.
People cannot let him get away with that kind of misdirection forever. It degrades politics, and it degrades Christianity.
I agree that the comparisson ads must be run and the other candidates must keep reminding the public about his actual record. But I think focusing on the religious aspect only works in his favor.
His Christmas ad was nothing more than another diversion. What it says is "I won't answer questions about my dispicable record of pardons and commutations. I'm above that, I'm a good Christian."
I hate the ad and what it is accomplishing among those who will not see and will not think. But attacking it only makes it more effective.
The ad is spectacular in its effect and the reaction to it (let alone the free publicity Huck is getting that he could never afford to buy). And whatever happened to Reagan's 11th commandment?
....what happened to the 11th commandment? Huck was attacking Romney all over the morning shows today.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
About bringing up the 11th over and over again in a primary situation.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
Donoghue and political pundits who thought they were hurting Huckabee by highlighting a Christmas advertising are ignorant about the reasons why Huckabee continues to rise in the polls.
While the "Cross" is probably just a bookcase, why would it turn off any Christians? Especially at a time when Christmas is under attack from the press, the government, and leftists.
As a Catholic I can't help but be embarrassed at the idea that anyone would think that Bill speaks for us on this issue. We should be celebrating candidates willing to put aside politics for a day to wish people a Merry Christmas, not acting like tin foil hat wearing hippies imagining subliminal messages in commercials (does everyone remember the left freaking out about the "Rats" subliminal message in the Bush campaign ads?). I'm no Huck fan, but seriously Bill, we've got bigger fish to fry than complaining about bookcases.
"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions."
If he hadn't already made it into such a big part of his campaign - are you denying that? For example if Fred did this exact ad, it would still be criticized by some but it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal because he hasn't called himself a "Christian leader", tried to sell his experience as a pastor as executive experience, declared something about his religion defining him, and don't forget the subtle jabs at Mitt Romney and his faith by him and the overt attacks on Mitt Romney's faith by his supporters. All of this together is a negative, where once may have been a positive. It comes across to me as a distraction from his questionable conservative stances, questionable comments about a sitting president, and numerous ethical issues.
If it were just the ad it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal; but this guy is practicing priestcraft - see my sig. I think he's at the tipping point of a lot of people's willingness to tolerate this. The polls seem to be showing this.
You may be right, however, I personally experienced a simlilar phenomenon. I was very critical of Romney and did not want to support him just because we share the same faith. As he was criticized, more and more based on my religion, it solidified my slowly growing support and now I am fully for Romney. I could see a similar mindset with evangelicals as you suggested.
* PRIESTCRAFT is thus defined: “The stratagem and frauds of priests; fraud or imposition in religious concerns. Management of selfish and ambitious priests to gain wealth and power, or to impose upon the credulity of others.”
You're possibly right that criticism of the ad will help Huckabee. It's too hard to say whether it creates a net gain, and how the timing works out. Too many variables. Huckabee's drop seems to have begun, but did the ad and criticism of it precipitate the drop, or slow it?
You're obviously wrong that people are hung up about Huckabee referring to Jesus Christ. When even Bill Donahue slams Huckabee for his ad, you know that the claim that criticism of Huckabee is a war on Christianity is far, far off the mark. Donahue and most Huckabee critics obviously love for someone to point out the true meaning of Christmas. What they hate is Huckabee's continuing shameless exploitation of his religion for political purposes.
Of course, this is exactly what Huckabee wants. He wants to portray himself as a leader in the war on Christmas. He wants people to emotionally feel that this is the most important and relevant issue that he can spend his ad money on as a presidential candidate.
Huckabee's camp obviously thought two moves ahead on this one. Will it work? I don't think so, but maybe.
Huck about the controversy over this ad are a.) the constant free airplay on news stations and b.) the ridiculousness of the "subliminal cross" allegations - come on, do we really want to mirror the left's "he's an idiot! no, he's an evil genius!" rhetoric of the past 7 years?
Insofar as that is the discussion, it helps him. When it's more general i.e. - "what does this say about religion's role in the Presidency?" - I don't think it does.
What is odd is that right now Huck is sinking (or Romney is retaking ground) in Iowa and at the same time he is also rising into a tie with Rudy nationally. Polls. Can't live with 'em, can't run a campaign without 'em.
For a moment, lets put aside the other issues and realize that the cross was intentional, we can guess at the specific intent though.
When shooting a scene, everything is planned: lighting, decoration, props, the camera pan, the focus, where to place the subject. The cross went in during a pan, well lit at the center and sharply dimmed at the edges, came to rest at his shoulder, only to be eclipsed by his head. Obviously this was intended to look the way it does.
I just can't believe for a second that the "cross" was unintentional. In fact, it really bothered me when Huck denied this; of course, what could he really have said. He shouldn't, however, act like we're all stupid and can't see that it's intentional.
* PRIESTCRAFT is thus defined: “The stratagem and frauds of priests; fraud or imposition in religious concerns. Management of selfish and ambitious priests to gain wealth and power, or to impose upon the credulity of others.”
Priestcraft. Where do I find all of the various conjugations of that word so I can more fully incorporate that into my vocabulary? If Huck's campaign thus far is any indication, I'm going to need to be able to use it in a variety of ways through February 5. :-)
Honestly, I don't know. It's a word I've heard in church since I was a little kid (I am LDS) mostly used to describe people who benefited by exploiting Christian teachings - there are scriptural examples as well as real-life examples. There are some specific stories of people practicing priestcraft in the Book of Mormon. What comes to my mind immediately are the preachers who earn money off of a congregation because they are good speakers, good looking, etc and not necessarily people who truly want to serve God. I'm not talking about the type who take only what they need to live; priestcraft would refer to those who become millionaires off of their congregation, or are clearly not living the lifestyle of a humble preacher.
My friends and I have always joked that Christian pop type music (we include LDS pop type music in this category) is a form of priestcraft. In LDS culture there are some people who will write books, or movies, that include characters from the scriptures coming into modern times, etc. - to me that is a mild form of priestcraft.
I believe Huckabee's campaign is priestcraft. The fact that he is a Christian is great but the way he has continually exploited Christianity as a distraction to political issues definitely falls under the priestcraft domain. He wants to become president (read: gain wealth and power) by focusing mostly on the fact that Christians should want a Christian president (read: imposing on the credulity of others).
I got my definition in my sig from a google search. When I went to Wikipedia it wasn't there. I guess in my ignorance I have always thought people knew this word. I must have confused a lot of people over the years when I used it.
Even though I detest what I see as priestcraft in Mike Huckabee's campaign, the major issue for me is that he does not align with me on the issues and I want a strong conservative, not a moderate conservative, centrist, populist.
* PRIESTCRAFT is thus defined: “The stratagem and frauds of priests; fraud or imposition in religious concerns. Management of selfish and ambitious priests to gain wealth and power, or to impose upon the credulity of others.”
And Mike Huckabee is trying to lie to all of us and insult our intelligence by claiming "hey, it's just a bookcase." Yeah right! This is "Christian Leader Series 1, Volume 2."
I loved whoever that MSNBC anchor Mika Brzezinski is when she said condescendingly to him, "Well, I have to tell you Governor, I felt blessed watching that ad. I felt the light shining down on you." LOL
RainbowRepublican: For someone that claims to be a Christian, you sure seem to easily bare a false witness. You have no particular knowledge of Huckabee's mind or any other evidence to claim he is lying.
How does this feel... You hate Huckabee and have "rainbow" in your name. You are obviously a homosexual that is angered by Huckabee's stance that homosexuality is sin.
This conjecture is just as valid as your own. But, both violate biblical standards of conduct. And, if one is truly interested in a serious discussion of the issues facing our nation, counter to that goal.
I'm pretty sure that kind of thing is a violation of the rules here.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
1) If I show you a red ball, ask you if you see a red ball, and you say no, I have evidence that you are lying, even though I cannot see into your mind. People who work in television and advertising generally believe it is implausible that the cross was an accident, just as I would believe it is implausible that you didn't see the ball. It's not impossible (you could have suddenly gone blind), but then what is ever truly impossible?
2) Not all conjectures are equally valid. For such a well-produced commercial, lighting highlighting a bright-white bookcase in the background so prominently isn't an accident. You can form your own theories about why they wanted everyone to be sure to see the bookcase well, and why the sudden shadows cut it off as they did.
3) Christians should give people the benefit of the doubt, as people. Not politicians as politicians.
He obviously knew that there was a big cross (excuse me, bookshelf) being spotlighted in the background as he said, "Merry Christmas." His assertions to the contrary are disingenuous (a kinder, gentler word for "lie.")
It wouldn't be the first time he lied. He has lied before, I think he still lies about the gas tax that he socked to Arkansas taxpayers being voter-approved. The Club for Growth has repeatedly exposed what a bald-faced lie that claim is.
Not that it's any of your business, but I am gay. I'm also a Southern Baptist and I recognize homosexual conduct as a sin. That's between me and God, however.
My problem with Mike Huckabee has nothing to do with his faith - because I more or less share it. My problem with Mike Huckabee is his substitution of his faith for public policy. He talks a whole lot more about how he's a "Christian leader" then he talks about actual public policy. When he does talk about public policy, he sounds just like all of the liberals that I so despise.
So, I was trying to be absurd by suggesting you are gay... to show the problem of calling someone a liar without evidence.
(I thought I explained that clearly when I said it, but it looks like others think I'm a gay basher or something now. The violation of biblical standards of conduct I was referencing was the bearing of false witness that we were both hypothetically engaging in.)
I would have used a different example if I had known you were gay.
The conclusion I hoped you would have made was that sometimes a bookshelf is just a bookshelf, just like sometimes a rainbow is just a rainbow. So much for that!
God be with you in your walk.
And as a Christian that adamantly opposes homosexual conduct, I still think you're a little out of line. You're jumping to a strange conclusion that makes no sense and incidentally, you're offending someone by doing so. Your conjecture is baseless and poor.
Oh and by the way, it's "bear false witness," which implies the intentional relation of a lie. To "bare" a false witness would seem to be making a false witness naked.
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill
...and drinking the same "Jesus juice" as Huck is. Huckabee is exploiting Christianity for his own political benefit.
I am a conservative Catholic. I am disgusted by political correctness and secular progressivism. I am also disgusted by Mike Huckabee and his transparent pandering to evangelical Christians. He is so out of the mainstream of conservative thought, he MUST appeal to the base on some other level. So, he is exploiting Christmas, Christianity, etc.
I whole-heartedly agree with Bill Donahue on this. Huckabee strikes me as nothing more than a slick, smarmy, crooked "old South" politician.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
The Catholic League and Americans United for Separation of Church and State, friends in the fight against overt expressions of Chritian faith!
As a friend of mine once wrote about Americans United's view: "Hey, people can practice whatever they want—so long as it's in their own home, with the blinds pulled, preferably in the basement, with no one else in their family able to hear, see, or smell whatever religious activity may be going on."
...when has ANYBODY (aside from some liberal media types) attacked Huckabee for a public expression of his faith? I haven't.
The criticism is that he is exploiting Christianity for political purposes. He is liberal on his policies, so he talks about Jesus on the stump and runs not-so-subtle ads that are in effect a wink and a nod to evangelicals (vote for me, guys!).
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
he is exploiting Christianity
But by your apparent definition, an overt expression of Christian faith by a political candidate is "exploiting Christianity."
If that's not your definition, please tell me what would qualify as an overt expression of Christian faith by a political candidate that is not an exploitation of Christianity.
he talks about Jesus on the stump
I have heard him speak twice live. Neither time did he mention Jesus. How many times have you heard him speak?
Matthew chapter 6. Huckabee's proclamations of faith are not for the glory of God (as would be commendable), but rather are for Huckabee's own personal glory (condemnable). He is not trying to inspire people to Christ, but is trying to get people to vote for Huckabee. That's crass exploitation, and it disgusts me as a Christian (and Fred supporter too).
This is asking people to vote for him for no other reason than because of his faith. That's revolting.
What are you talking about? When has he done this? You act like he doesn't have public policy positions that he talks about all the time.
He calls anyone who calls attention to his record and his public policy positions a "tattle tale" and then says that we should pay no attention to his atrocious record as governor of Arkansas because he's a "Christian leader." Color me unimpressed.
Shakespeare would have had a ball writing plays about our politicians. The Huckabee ad would be "Much Ado about Nothing". On Clinton, "King Leerer". Oh, and Hillary would be Lady MCRodam. I thinl the paranoid lefties are reading to many of their own subliminal messages.
I'm Fred first, Huck last guy, but I agree with everything you said here.
"Huckabee!"
"Huckabee!"
"Huckabee!"
Hopefully his 15 minutes will be over soon.
I am not a Huckabee fan because of his political views, but if he wants to run on a religious platform, then by all means he should. The PC police are constantly on the lookout for religion being put into the public square and it is sickening. This country was founded on a basis of religion and attacking Huckabee for expousing his religion is wrong on too many levels to even go into.
Huck has many problems, but I don't find his religion anywhere on that list. If people want to attack him on his politics, then those are fair game, but I am very concerned about all these attacks he is up against here though. I fear that the stuff thrown at him has been so vile and personal that if he were to get the nomination, it would be almost impossible to reconcile for the general.
I expect him to go up in the polls even further as a result of the establishment New York-Washington Corridor of Mainstream IntelligentsiaTM and parts of the New York-Washington Corridor of Conservative IntelligentsiaTM attack his Christmas ad.
With respect to the establishment corridor, can you really be surprised? The only message they would approve is one that reads "USA for sale to highest multi-culti bidder" and that is written in another language. (Farsi has first dibs here.)
With respect to the conservative corridor, it was wildly cheered on RS as in other places for things like the Harriet Meiers nomination, so one can hardly resent its influence.
As for the cross paranoia, the elites are looking quite credulous at the moment. They are buying into this just as their despised readers of supermarket tabloids buy into the Martian articles and the blurbs like "Julia Roberts lost 300 pounds incognito at fat farm thru miracle diet!"
If the iPhone was Jesus, Steve Jobs would not have had to drop the price by $200 to get people to buy it.
Oh, and yes to everything else.
Well, now we know where at least $300 of all that donated money went!
'Tis the season. We all probably need to lighten up a little bit.
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The attacks on Huckabee are just way too over the top. It is offensive.
Jesus Christ -- that's what people are hung up on him saying.
Well no - not in my case, at least. I happen to be hung-up on the fact that it's pretty much all he ever says and talks about. So I suppose that makes me part of the New York-Washington Corridor of Conservative Intelligentsia™ in spite of the fact that I live in Boston, eh?
Seriously Erick, your skin is getting to be about as thin as is Huckabee's.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
No.
Are we (most of us)? I really don't think so.
What else could it be then?
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Dubya talked about Christ too, but still appeared to be the establishment candidate. He proudly made it clear that Christ is part of who he is, but he didn't seem to be asking for a vote based upon being the best Christian. That's what Donahue seems to be hearing from Huckabee, and he appears dismayed by it.
Is that distinction and concern anti-evangelical? No. It divides evangelicals, bitterly. So it will not take shape as establishment intelligentsia against eva-so-con, southern or otherwise; but something very much more divisive, IMO.
I don't like the prospect of laying out markers on this issue over a primary. And perhaps you are trying to ward that off as well, except that your post does lay down a markers.
What's to be done? I'll leave it with that.
I can add this. If Huck's ad had not come out first, in isolation, but rather in the context of other Christmas ads by each of the candidates, I would have received it differently.
Part of my problem is that I don't remember ever having seen Christmas campaign ads, so I have attributed this as a new fad to Huckabee. If I had been expecting every candidate to be putting out a Christmas ad, then I would have received it more positively.
Put together a post showing that the Christmas campaign ads are SOP and you would help diffuse it for me.
Innovation in campaigning is hardly new and unfortunately for those who don't like Huck. He has thus far run the best campaign.
Did I say something to provoke you? I'd like to be clear on that before I respond to your provocation that my pair of comments are motivated by jealousy. Please think about them again before deciding you wish to further pry open the can of worms.
That in the primary candidates (republican) run to the right and in the election they run to the middle. By staking out his position as the most conservative social candidate he is capitalizing on his strengths during the primary, just as the other candidates are trying to do. His religion is who he is and because of that it is not unauthentic for him to speak about it. Plus, his ads which portray him as a kinder, gentler, form of politician play very well with people who are paying less attention to the issues during this time of year.
In my opinion all the other candidates only wish they had thought of the Christmas idea first.
It's not a cross, it's a bookshelf. He didn't suggest Mormons believe Christ and the devil are brothers, he was just asking the NY Times guy if he knew the answer since poor Huck doesn't know much about Mormons. He didn't say Mormons are a cult, he just deflected the question as not appropriate.
Huckabee is great at implying things then falling back on "I never said that". He just doesn't have the guts to put the cross outright in the Christmas ad and say what he believes, that Mormons are a cult and they believe Christ and the devil are brothers, so he just implies it. At the end of the day, he's a coward and a bigot.
"Honor is self-esteem made visible in action." - Ayn Rand, West Point, 1974
He certainly didn't suggest that Mormans believe that....he asked that to an overzealous NY TIMES reporter who was quizing him on the morman faith. He didn't say it at a podium or in a mailer.
The NY Times did that for him.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
If you are suggesting that he did say it to the NY TIMES reporter in order to smear Mitt, that was terrible foresight on his part. How couldn't he know he'd get hit for that one. Not to mention I think thats his only neg. attack to date (if thats what you want to call it)
I think its more likely he made a somewhat innappropriate joke and didn't expect it to get in print
He's having lunch with a NY Times reporter - when it's plainly obvious that everything is on the record - and he volunteers an oft-used smear against the LDS Church expecting, using your logic, said reporter (from the New York Freaking Times) would understand it's simply an "inappropriate joke" that would never end-up in print.
I almost perfer to think Huck a bigot rather than monumentally stupid, but whatever.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
The SBC teaches their baptist ministers how to disparage Mormons with the EXACT question Huckabee asked...
Coincidence that a minister turned sleazy politician (by definition) would use passive aggressive attacks...as he does with EVERYTHING.
Light on substance, light on specifics, light on declarative sentences. High on thinking everyone is out to get him when they point out his record CORRECTLY... can you say Martyr complex?
If I am wrong I am sorry, though I do believe Mormonism states that Jesus and Satan where once Spiritual brothers. If this is so why does people think it is wrong to say so
The point is not the theology, it's that Pastor Huckster is introducing matters of faith into the political arena. Many people, including me, have an extreme issue with Pastor Huckster and his turning a campaign for a public office that should be about issues into pitting one religious dogma against another.
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
Sorry this whole opprobrium over the advert is way over the top.
We have elections were these opinions get their proper expression.
Personally I find nothing offensive about the Xmas advert. Its just Huck saying stop pounding on me so I can win Iowa.
On the other hand, His use of the Christian leader, Spamming evangelicals, and consistent appeals to peoples baser instincts is another matter.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
WHOA WHOA WHOA....theology is definately important. If Mormonism says that then whats the big deal w/ huck saying it. He was repetitively getting questioned on where his faith differs w/ Mitts. If thats what they believe ...thats what they believe. It should not be offensive that Huck gives a diffference when asked for one. And if its something to be ashamed of ...well... do the math
To be honest it was a cheap shot attempt that quite frankley was below huck. It is the same type of shot that Mitt has started littering Iowa with, but to be consistent its was slimy, and an error in judgment.
**I guess I was attempting to defend huck (which now i think better of...everyone makes mistakes in judgment) and also my point was more If this is a issue that is so ugly about the mormon faith then maybe Romney's religion of choice should be in play. I'm just saying, lol
FYI...It's Mormons...
And Huckabee using the NYT for his passive aggressive attacks...
Another notch in the conservative credentials of Mike Huckabee.
Y'all knew it was coming - right on schedule.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
If it was a question of bucks why isn't RP winning ?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Seriously...who is better at using liberal talking points to try and attack someone else's assertions... liberals or Huckabee and his Supporters?
Didn't you say your goodbyes yesterday?
* PRIESTCRAFT is thus defined: “The stratagem and frauds of priests; fraud or imposition in religious concerns. Management of selfish and ambitious priests to gain wealth and power, or to impose upon the credulity of others.”
Before you can give it up
Sorry tooooooo easy
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
You have to actually leave for more than 30 seconds to say you've come and gone and returned.
How about come back on the 28th? We have a Christmas Day Armistice planned... hopefully you'll respect it.
In high school there was a kid named Simon who was mildly retarded (sorry, mentally handicapped). He was a few years older than me and was always hanging around the jocks and popular kids. These kids were constantly mocking him and kept him around only to mock him. He was completely unaware. It was so blatant that people would even call each other a Simon. I felt bad for the kid and yet he was happy being with the jocks and popular kids.
To get to the point: You Joedt7 are a Simon.
* PRIESTCRAFT is thus defined: “The stratagem and frauds of priests; fraud or imposition in religious concerns. Management of selfish and ambitious priests to gain wealth and power, or to impose upon the credulity of others.”
too bad, Ohio is important. So who will you vote for. By the time it gets to Ohio I guess your choices will be Rudy or Huck. That's the way I see it. So who do you choose
The guy that lowers taxes, understands a little about national security and promises federalist judges.
Huckabee wouldn't have a chance of winning Ohio in a general, not a chance.
"Honor is self-esteem made visible in action." - Ayn Rand, West Point, 1974
but
From Ethan Allen
Looks much like this bookcase pattern in white.
OH Ethan Allen was a agnostic or pantheist of some stripe.
http://libertyonline.hypermall.com/allen-reason.html
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
His shelves were clearly built in and painted white along with the fire place.
Now for me, it's interesting how only his face and the bookcase were lit (and the way that lighting is achieved for filming wouldn't have them both lit with the same device); it was intentional.
Maybe Huckabee was wanting to show off his oversized Christmas balls.
Everything is there for a reason. Nothing and how it comes across is by accident. These ads are done in a very meticulous manner.
"Honor is self-esteem made visible in action." - Ayn Rand, West Point, 1974
I swear, J - you need to get out more! :-)
The Unofficial RedState FAQ
“You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say. ” - Martin Luther
If he has a cup of coffee is that going to be a slam on Romney ?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
unless, of course, you subscribe to the idea that intent counts..kinda like adding a hate crime charge.
Conservatives and NeoCons have every right to feel superior to Huckabee. After all, they are never wrong. Huckabee worships an infallible God. NeoCons worship William Kristol and Charles Krauthammer. It's still worship, isn't it?
The real objections of Conservatives to Huckabee have nothing to do with foreign policy. They chose Bush, who can barely read a map, so obviously world affairs are unimportant to them. It's the sweat factor.
NeoCons like to sit in church and smile while they plan their next colonial adventure. Conservatives like to deconstruct the Gospel to prove that Jesus wasn't serious about helping the poor. This is why they can't comprehend the possibility that Huckabee really is a Christian.
I mean really. A Baptist? Maybe an Episcopalian.
Or a Quaker. But a Baptist? Not just a guy who gets Christians to vote for him by claiming he's one of them, but a REAL Christian? Bad idea. Greasy. Snake Oil. Ooh, yeah. Let's nix this guy.
Let's see, we've still got the Mormon. Well? Religion is religion, isn't it?
There's JulieAnnie. It's not like he's gonna cross-dress in the White House, or anything. You know, those cops taking his mistress shopping, that was a once-in-a-lifetime deal. It's over now. Forget it.
I bet Fred's a Christian too. Good old Fred. Hell, anybody but Huckabee.
It is getting harder and harder to tell the Ronulans from the Huckabots.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
And leave.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
you have no idea what conservatives believe in, and I bet your not much of a Christian either.
Go away troll.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
It seems a politician cannot talk openly and sincerely about his faith, and emphasize his faith when discussing the qualities of his leadership. I suppose they're weren't many precedents anyway.
We need to go back to the usual hollowed and insincere statements about faith made by every other politician, in particular those on the Left. I guess that's more acceptable isn't it?
Even Ann Coulter has gotten into the act (I'm normally a fan to be honest). She's aptly called Huckabee a pro-sodomy politician, and observed "As far as I can tell, it's mostly secular liberals swooning over Huckabee."
Right. At least the vitriol directed at Huckabee has been reasoned and fact-based. We now return you to your regularly scheduled mud-slinging rage at Huckabee-fest.
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History is all that will help us with the future
"Jesus Christ" is not and should not be a campaign platform anymore than "Allah," "Buddah," or "Moses" should be.
I don't know why you can't seem to understand this.
Luckily you're wrong about this pushing Huckabee's numbers up. In the latest Rasmussen, Huckabee's support among evangelicals has dropped 14% in just a week. It's heartening that there are other evangelicals out there like me who think about politics from a policy standpoint and reject absolutely deplorable candidates like Mike Huckabee who attempt to use their faith as a distraction to obfuscate his absolutely deplorable record and socialist rhetoric.