Redstate

"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions."

He was for "A Surge". He wanted more troops, and he wanted them their earlier. The additional soldiers was only a part of the overall strategy. McCain was not the architect behind our current success.

Romney, are you the candidate for change, or the changing candidate?
Sure McCain, you can have my #$&^%#@$ vote if you want it.
FDT's Principles

surge, he went to Baghdad, walked through a market with a flack jacket on, and said he saw signs of progress. This was when Republicans back home were using terms like "benchmarks" to single that they were "realistic" about Iraq. (And no, I am not talking about Mitt, I am talking about John Boehner and Mitch McConnell)

McCain was roasted alive in the MSM, and his political career was pronounced dead. Despite what Ms. Coulter has been saying, McCain never claimed to have been the only one supporting a change in strategy, nor has he ever said he designed the surge. He has said that he bet his political career on the surge working, and that is true.

John McCain has sounded like he was to the surge as Al Gore was to the internet.

He said several times that he was the only candidate on the stage who supported the surge. He backed away from that statement when Rudy Giuliani called him on it. But it appears from his various statements that he thinks he and only he thought of the current plan and that he and only he supported it.

McCain never claimed to have been the only one supporting a change in strategy, nor has he ever said he designed the surge.

You may deny it, but I watched the debates and heard him say these things myself.

People forget it, but on Lexis-Nexis, you can search for this. It's from Knight-Ridder, and the headline is: "McCain Suggests Iraqi Government meet benchmarks."

Lest there be any confusion, here's the money line of the article:

Asked what penalty would be imposed if Iraq failed to meet his benchmarks, he said: "I think everybody knows the consequences. Haven't met the benchmarks? Obviously, then, we're not able to complete the mission. Then you have to examine your options."

McCain tries to defend himself as the 100-Year War candidate, but he had the same backup plan and the same parsing rhetoric of every other pol. He might have supported additional troops and not wavered from that, but he also hedged his bets a little.

Vote for the ulti-Mitt conservative. Romney '08!

DISCLAIMER: I am loosly affiliated as a volunteer for the Mitt Romney campaign. All viewpoints expressed are my own, not the campaign's.

It seems clear everyone was throwing it around. My point is, McCain did play an important role in supporting the surge, and more than any other candidate in the field, made this plan, this strategy, central to his campaign. I'm sorry, but I can’t see any hedging. I remember watching him in the Senate Armed Services Committee, standing his ground as Carl Levin listed statistic after statistic, showing why we can't win in Iraq. McCain stood his ground, insisting that a defeat would be catastrophic to our armed services and our nation. Of course he didn't fight that fight alone, and if he left that impression during the debate, then he needs to fix it. But he was leading the fight both for a change in strategy and for the Petraeus surge that resulted.

Have a great rest of the weekend :)

I didn't call McCain an architect of "The Surge." The commenter asked for evidence of McCain showing leadership on a conservative issue. I don't think even the biggest McCain haters out there would deny he was a leader in supporting The Surge.

That said, I think an argument can be made that McCain could be considered an architect of The Surge (or the very least submitted a plan that looked an awful lot like the plan that was adopted). Robert Kagan (the brother of Fred, who even Mitt Romney credits with developing The Surge), gives Fred Kagan, Gen. Keane and yes, John McCain and Joe Lieberman credit for convincing the Bush Administration to adopt The Surge strategy.

That's why when AEI unveiled The Surge with a panel featuring Kagan and Keane on January 5, 2007, Part II of that unveiling featured Joe Lieberman and John McCain where McCain said, as he had been saying for years:

"We need more of the right kind of troops, civil affairs teams, special forces, translators, troops to conduct information operations, among others. The mission of these reinforcements would be to implement the thus far elusive hold element of the military’s clear-hold-build strategy, to maintain security in cleared areas, to protect the population and critical infrastructure, and to impose the government’s authority -- essential elements of a traditional counterinsurgency strategy.

We are talking about the fundamental elements of counterinsurgency strategy here. We are not inventing new strategies. There are numerous specific tasks for these additional troops. They will need to establish local outposts; forge relationships with local leaders, which by the way, is proceeding in Anbar province; build intelligence networks; engage in economic reconstruction activities; oversee other employment-generating projects; and wean the populace off their alliance on militias for safety. They would do it all in cooperation with the Iraqi forces until such time as the Iraqis can do it on their own."

http://www.aei.org/events/filter.,eventID.1446/transcript.asp

So yes, McCain didn't invent The Surge, but he led efforts to implement it and had been talking about changing both troop levels and troop tactics for years.

"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions."

Seriously, it will not matter if McCain supported the surge or not after he destroys our country from within, with his horrible domestic record, from which he is now running like a stuck pig with the help of the MSM

No, never, the anti-first amendment, pro-amnesty, anti-border fence, conservative judge blocking, Treaty of the Seas United Nations-supporting, anti-tax lowering McCain!!!

BTW, how contradictory is the surge when McCain wants to close down Gitmo and give the enemy rights on United States soil. Yoohoo! Anybody see a contradiction here?

No, never, the anti-first amendment, pro-amnesty, anti-border fence, conservative judge blocking, Treaty of the Seas United Nations-supporting, anti-tax lowering McCain!!!

OK, and so we have McCain the "national security candidate" who refuses to secure the southern border of his own state, Arizona, against terrorists and now he expects us to believe he's awesome because he supported the surge...uh-huh.

We have Mexican military excursions across the southern border, murderers, and border patrol agents getting run down and shot, and John McCain, after all his years in the Senate, has never lifted a finger to secure his own state's border. So where are his 'national security creds'?

And, don't forget John McCain wanted to switch parties and join John Kerry and Kennedy as a Democrat. "Birds of a feather stick together".

No, never, the anti-first amendment, pro-amnesty, anti-border fence, conservative judge blocking, Treaty of the Seas United Nations-supporting, anti-tax lowering McCain!!!

Clinton's Impeachment
The amendment to cut $74.5 million for various agriculture programs
The minimum wage increase in 2005
The amendment to cut $6 million for sugarcane growers in Hawaii
The Class Action Fairness Act
The trial voucher program in 2001 as an amendment to No Child Left Behind.
The amendment to reduce funding for the Yazoo Basin Backwater Pump Project in Mississippi
The amendment to eliminate $2.5 million for coral reef mapping of the waters off the coast of Hawaii
The amendment to cut $78 million in projects from an emergency supplemental appropriations bill
The motion to kill an amendment to provide $40 million for the conversion of a New York City post office into an Amtrak train station
the Class Action Fairness Act of 2005
THe amendment to authorize $1.8 billion a year for three years to establish a pilot school voucher program, paid for by the elimination of subsidies for ethanol, oil, gas, and sugar (oops, he's against the ethanol subsidies... and he talks about it in Iowa... TRAITOR)
The Medicare prescription drug plan (oops, "real conservatives" voted for this one...TRAITOR)
the Farm Security Bill in 2002 (oops, "real conservatives" voted for this one...TRAITOR)
THe Highway Bill (oops, "real conservatives" voted for this one...TRAITOR)
The bill that provided Amtrak with an extra $550 million for the fiscal year 2007(oops, "real conservatives" voted for this one...TRAITOR)
The $2 billion in milk subsidies (oops, "real conservatives" voted for this one...TRAITOR)
The Joslyn Art Museum in Nebraska and the "bridge to nowhere" amendments (oops, "real conservatives" voted for this one...TRAITOR)
The welfare reform (oops, "real conservatives" voted for this one...TRAITOR)
The surge (oops, he said Rumsfeld was wrong...TRAITOR)

first, it isn't so much Conservatives that are against him, but establishment conservatives, talk radio, the Sean Hannity's, Ann Coulters, blogs, etc. Some of the regular folks who like these personalities then follow suit.

He isn't a down the line conservative, and he tries to do what he thinks is right, not what he thinks a conservative would do. As such, on several issues, and many high profile, he doesn't toe the conservative line. It is more than that. He doesn't just dare to go against the conservative line, but he leads against it at times.

The Conservative establishment finds that unforgiveable. He dares to not only go against them, but to confront them and lead the opposition. Of course, all of those things used to be noble. Not here though. God forbid that McCain actually reach out to Ted Kennedy and Russ Feingold and try and craft legislation that compromises. After all we know that we don't need any Democratic support we can just ram all our ideas through and turn them into law. After all that is why Fred Thompson crafted exactly ZERO pieces of legislation in his life. That's because this true blue conservative never compromised on his ideological principle. As such, all he ever did was vote. That is much more admirable than actually crafting a bill and turning it into law that is flawed but amounts to something tangible. That, here, is unforgiveable.

I am so fed up with the likes of yo. You have turned a good and honorable man, and you have demonized him, because he dared do what was right, rather than what some ideology told him. That, to me, is the real ugly part of the campaign. Not any bill that McCain turned into law.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor

The Provocateur

OK, Provocateur, let me get this straight: it's all good if McCain speaks his mind, even if what he is saying and doing is destroying our Constitution, McCain-Feingold, McCain-Leiberman Gun Control extension of the Brady bill, McCain-Kennedy pro-amnesty which will bankrupt the US, pro United Nations' Treaty of the Seas and Kyoto. But, hey, he speaks his mind.

This is an ideology, a liberal ideology.

And, I'll never forget what McCain did to the POWs and their families in the McCain/Kennedy POW hearings.

I hear the term "establishment" bandied about - not directed at anyone in particular, however, this comment gives an opening to discussion.

I believe that it is a psychological thing to position one's self as against the "Establishment." I've posted here & elsewhere about my choice for president (before he dropped out) Fred Thompson running against the establishment of the punditocracy & the republican "establishment" who wanted things done a certain way. Perhaps, if he had surrounded himself with a better, more organized campaign staff it would have worked. I placed people like James Dobson & Pat Robertson into a social/evangelical type "establishment." McCain is running as being outside of the "establishment" of Washington business as usual. Going back to republican "establishment," many see that as the old "blue blood country club" types who are comfortable in the minority, being fed scraps by a democrat majority.

Now, we have a "conservative" establishment led by Rush, Hannity, Malkin, Coulter & others.

How about a "grassroots" establishment? Would that be a good thing?

It will be Hillary; she and Bill will never allow anyone else to get the nomination.

Ted Kennedy has never liked the Clintons and one of the reasons Bill has been so emphatic in his recent diatribes against Barack is they know that the movers and shakers are kicking the Clinton Dynasty to the curb.

There can only be one Liberal King in this country -- and that's *going* to be Ted Kennedy. Watch.

I don't think you understand just how badly Ted Kennedy wants to make Barack into the next POTUS. He's so powerful that even Bill Clinton gets red-faced over it. Now that the real Liberal Lion from Massachusetts has endorsed him along with George Soros and Oprah, the Clintons are wheezing.

It's going to be Barack. Anyone looking at how college professors have been thinking in the past eight years knows that.

For the first time since the 1960's, the Kennedy family has some really new face with an exuberant gang of acolytes among the yoof to make into the Party's nominee. Barack Obama is much, much more popular with the kidz than Hillary is. He's also much more popular among college professors, and even though Bill Clinton is actually *correct* in saying that his candidacy is a fairy tale, that's all it's going to take.

The thing about Barack is that he really is the Tiger Beat candidate, except that he has the backing 200% of the old liberal establishment in this country, including Robert Redford, who is a direct descendant of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Redford hasn't explicitly endorsed Obama yet, but he will, the more Hillary's star falls.

McCain won't be able to withstand Barrack's cross over appeal, negating a huge strength. The conservative base will either be holding their noses or completely refraining. The media will be framing it as More of the Same vs. Rebirth of the American Dream. I don't think Barrack's weakness is exploitable by McCain, McCain's experience is being a part of the Washington establishment that America is giving lower Satisfaction Ratings than Bush. Barrack's freshness and lack of experience would actually play strongly against McCain's experience. In other words, if it's McCain, we had better hope and pray that Clinton pulls it out. You could always just play it smart and vote for Romney. That still may happen....

Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now.

-White Goodman

But that's how I think of it. I'm going to do my best to defend McCain but I think the tide has turned massively against the Republicans and the best chance they had has been beaten to death here on this blog. McCain is going to come up short against Obamarama. He might have had a chance against Hillary, but Hillary isn't going to be the Donk nominee.

And in the meantime, over the past six months, too many Republicans have done the Democrats' dirty work for them in tearing Romney down. He's done. The numbers reflect that.

I think we're in for a long, hard, losing fight. Obama has so much mojo right now, and there is so much impetus in this country to get away from Republicans, that I think we're looking at (D)-(D)-(D) day.

I'll still support McCain, but I don't think it's going to matter. I think we're screwed.

Thanks, GWB!

Because we do not want the democrats to govern as if they have a mandate. McCain gives us the best chance to keep it close.

If they win even by the smallest of margins, it will be cast not only as a mandate, but also the rejection of everything republican going back to Reagan.

The media of course will trumpet this 24/7 for months.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

Let's hope Obama beats McCain. McCain is to the left of Obama on everything except the war. Conservatives will do much better against Obama and Hillary than McCain the liberal.

On what planet? Obama is left of Jimmy Carter, what the hell are you talking about.

After this comment, I envoke the Hinz Rule.

A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. Thomas Jefferson

Um, let's see Jimmy Carter was president in 1976. Let's move forward. Tell me how McCain's positions differ from Hillary or Obama outside of the war in Iraq.

McCain will not appoint Supreme Court Justices who make things up (like constitutional rights to abortion/sodomy/etc.) as any liberal President will do.

"Life is too short, can't we all just eat pork and kill some terrorists?"

Excuse me! McCain and his gang of 14 essentially blocked all of Bush's conservative judicial nominees by NOT supporting the good Republicans and their attempt to stop the unConstitutional filibustering of Bush's judicial nominees by the Dems. Now none of Bush's judges will EVER be confirmed and you want to talk to me about judges and McCain. I don't think so.

What about McCain saying he would not support a Justice such as Bush's awesome appointment of Alito because he wears his "conservatism on his sleeve'?

Are Americans asleep???

No, never, the anti-first amendment, pro-amnesty, anti-border fence, conservative judge blocking, Treaty of the Seas United Nations-supporting, anti-tax lowering McCain!!!

Is that his record is so shallow and so Socialist and his personal demeanor is so wooden and forced that we can beat him. He's really better suited to be a Professor than he is a Presidential candidate, and that's why so many professors like him. He should be running for President of Yale, not President of the United States. Even on Letterman the guy can't loosen up a little, he's so constrained by his own exact parsimony. What a horrible man to have as President.

In that, McCain may have a chance. Obama is a thin-skinned oversensitive academic who was pushed into this spot by a bunch of other thin-skinned, oversensitive academics. We might be able to work against him on that score. It's going to be tough, because Kennedy and Soros want him so bad, along with Geffen and Katzenberg, that they'll do everything they can to pump huge sums of money into manufacturing his image between now and November.

And without someone strong to counter him, they'll win. Obama is the early '60s candidate -- he's got the girls ready to throw their panties on the stage for him.

Because Barack is right now the man with the power of the p***y. All you have to do is take a trip to U.Mass Amherst and ask any coed. They're ready and waiting for him.

Is if there are many more like me who would not be terribly disappointed with him as president, then the needed mo-jo just may be missing on the republican side if McCain is the nominee.

Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now.

-White Goodman

Damn, that was some blunt talk. I like it though. I graduated from UMass Amherst. Know all abou them hippie groupies.

But they wouldn't be appropriate here on a family-oriented blog. But believe me, the panties are off for Obamarama. It's the free-love 60's feeling all over again.

I'm with you. I come from a commercial fishing family on the hard docks of New Bedford and trust me, fishermen really do drink and swear like depicted. Four years in the Happy Valley didnt help. I have to really hold back. From Amherst to Boston, I'm single and on the circuit, I know all about the youth crush on Obamarama.

for me too, to keep my usually foul mouth in check. And yeah, the Obama things do look and sound like a h/s or college pep rally, complete with nubile young things that are easy to impress.

In Vino Veritas

Take a look at me. I'm older than the college set, not much to look at, and married for 6 years. It has been made aware to me on several occasions that, if I was "down for the struggle", that they would be willing to alleviate my pain, if you get my drift.

Dang me and my morals!

Vote for the ulti-Mitt conservative. Romney '08!

DISCLAIMER: I am loosly affiliated as a volunteer for the Mitt Romney campaign. All viewpoints expressed are my own, not the campaign's.

..

He is handling the Clinton attacks with composure

Barack Obama hasn't come up against any real opposition yet. He's coasted in his entire career thus far and his rise to prominence happened primarily because the Republican Party in Illinois was defenestrated while he was running for Senate.

He's got tremendous liabilities as a Presidential candidate but on the other hand he has the race card to throw. I've said before and I'll say it again that Barack Obama is the academic choice. He was elevated to prominence in Illinois *only* because the Ryan administration was getting cut to ribbons over the licenses for bribes scandal and the rest of the party there was so beaten up that they had to try and nominate:

1) Mike Ditka
2) A Sadomasochist Stockbroker
3) Alan Keyes

As people to fill the seat. Obama walked right through that open door and that's why he's the nominee for President right now. But he's a totally untested man and his record will not stand up if the Republicans are willing to go to the mat to beat him. It's going to be a tough fight because we're supposed to be the Party of Lincoln: that's exactly why he's going to be the nominee against us: they'll call us hypocrites. We'd better be prepared for it, because the way the tea leaves are reading for me right now, he's going to be the guy we're fighting in this contest.

I'm only 50/50 about whether we can win. In my pessimistic moments I don't know how we can beat the Beatles.

When you know you have Ted Kennedy, Moveon.org, George Soros, Jeffrey Katzenberg, David Geffen, and at least 5,000 Ph.D.s on your side. He doesn't have to sweat.

Obama came up through the Illinois Dem machine. You know he can take some heat.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

there are legs to the Rezko situation (same with Hil as well)

" Got to love the Lord for making things like that."
Morally Compromised

First of all, that was an easy walk for Barack. Second of all, it's been even easier since he got into the U.S. Senate.

Both Clintons are really, really angry because they know he's had a cakewalk up until this point. But they can't say it.

And it looks like they are having no trouble and it is coming as if naturally, it means one of two things.

1. The task is trivial
2. They have great skill.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

Based on everything I know, that in Barack's case it was #1.

He was literally skyrocketed to where he is today. When Ryan had to face prison in Illinois and had to apologize at Northwestern University and give clemency to everyone on Death Row, Barack Obama was the big gleam in everyone's eye.

That's why he's here, now.

You can't imagine how bad the Republican party in Illinois was faring while Barack was being boosted. It was a regular laugh-a-thon among liberal intellectuals I knew. It was a disaster for Republicans. I know because I also know how the case against Ryan got prosecuted. Trust me: Obama was the man in the right place, at the rightest time in history for him, and Rahm knew it, and he seized the moment.

This is one of the few times in the world when I can actually understand why Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton are so angry. They're angry because this dude from Illinois who has absolutely zero credentials on the national level is beating the crud out of them in terms of popularity and he's racking up all the big endorsements. I feel their pain, because I know in this instance, they're right about it. Obama is a shell, and they can't stand even having to debate the guy.

They were aganist him in his first bid for Congress in 02 when he ran in a primary aganist Bobby Rush and even in the 04 Senate Primary they supported State Comptroller Dan Hynes.

McCain '08

I think the Clinton's are saving their best attacks on Obama until they need to use them. The reason is they might need him as a veep and do not want to use them if they do not have to for that reason. BTW, Obama can get in the mud besides the Jack Ryan thing, a couple of weeks before the Dem Primary, it was found it that his main challanger in that race Blair Hull had a sex scandal of his own. Despite all his lofty rhetoric about raising the national debate, Obama does how to throw the mud also.

McCain '08

There's just not much mud for the Clintons to throw against Obama. In comparison to their family, he makes his seem like a model of prudence and circumspection. He can't be attacked on his intellectual credentials because he's got "genius" Hillary overmatched, frankly. He doesn't have any of their liabilities: there's virtually no record to speak of except things they would agree with themselves.

That's why Kennedy and Soros are supporting him over the Clintons (aside from the fact that neither of them are really too cozy with the Clintons):

Barack Obama is the candidate who can be manufactured to fit virtually any demand. He's an open book, he's a lump of putty. They'll bend him and shape him into anything they want and not only is there nothing to say he wouldn't have been that, he'll go along with it!

He's the first politician in the millenium who could really beat the Clintons by being *more nebulous*. It's astonishing to think that, but it's true.

They absolutely will not attack his wife, and neither will anyone else. Who is she? Nobody knows. But nevertheless there will not be a single negative word written about Michelle Obama, ever. Ever.

So she's an officially protected individual and Obama has at least 50 national hit points of protection himself. He's virtually unbeatable. That's why Kennedy and Soros are supporting him.

The Republicans will have a very, very hard time tearing down Barack Obama -- much harder than they had tearing down Mitt Romney. Good luck!

I think that Obama in a head-to-head contest with McCain will have to beat himself to lose. We can't count on that. He's a very intelligent guy and he's being handled by some of the best in the business. He's a *much tougher* candidate than Hillary. He's TEN TIMES as difficult as Hillary to beat.

Obama's strength comes from the fact that he's a made man. He's been deliberately placed into the position he's in, but nobody can say that. The real reason he's much stronger than Hillary is that *anything* you say against Obama is going to draw the identity-politics race card. Because of that -- not based on his record -- he's going to coast to the Presidency, also. His record is atrocious, but Republicans are going to have to be superduper sensitive about how they criticise him, which means they might as well give up now.

Can't win against him, I think.

You are wrong.

His strength is that he is just plain likable. There is no other way to call it. I know many who look at Hillary with scathing eyes (like me) and just get angry at the sight of her. There just aren't that many people who feel that way about Obama. He is a genuinely nice guy, and it will be incredibly difficult to beat him. It is kind of like running against Ronald Reagan. No matter what you do, he comes up smelling like roses.

Our best chance, and I think the only one that gives us better than 50/50 odds, is for the Hillary machine to overpower him somehow. With McCain, we can stomp Hillary and beat her like a drum on almost every issue. I don't think there is a GOP candidate who would be the favorite over Obama, unless he had a Ted-Haggard level scandal drop on him a week before the election.

"Life is too short, can't we all just eat pork and kill some terrorists?"

I ment Mc and Hill i trust Mitt more than either for some reason.

Lost my train of thought when I deleted my first thoughts.

"We have the two moderates in the field teaming up to thwart conservatives."

Whatever he is, Huck ain't a moderate. He's a populist.

And the idea of Romney=Conservative is still no more persuasive than McCain=Conservative.

I think the problem Romney supporters are having with winning over voters is that most voters don't see this as a moderate vs. conservative race.

______________________________________
Donate to the Rs in Close Senate Races through Slatecard

Go read some blogs on Hugh Hewitt to see how nicely the title fits Romney. I know it's lame to refer to someone else to make a point, but that in itself is kind of my point. Greater minds than I have made the connection. The only objections that are valid against Romney being conservative are that he is an opportunistic politician who has a proven track record of not being conservative. That my friend is a case that can not be supported by the facts but only by imagination. Get over it Adam, I am serious.

Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now.

-White Goodman

Please tell me you did not reference Hugh Hewitt to make a point about Romney. His man-crush on Mitt Headroom is so well documented he'd claim that Romney can do anything short of walking on water.

John S. McCain III

Romney and his supporters were unwilling to acknowledge his biggest weakness and try to mitigate it. Instead they exacerbated it. By pandering in MI (government will bail you out) and FL (robo-calls about Prescription Drug Entitlement), he turned off some people willing to give him a chance.

He played into people's main worry about him. If you don't want to admit or accept it, that's not my problem. But if you want to understand why he has not caught on as the Conservative Savior, it takes putting down the Hugh Hewitt and listening to people who were undecided (and not McCain fans) until recently (see Dan, Mark, Ben, etc).

______________________________________
Donate to the Rs in Close Senate Races through Slatecard

Pandering in Michigan? Robo calls? I did not think the Robo calls were proven? And I thought his pandering was really just a government investment in R&D? Oh wait, you say it was pandering and robo calls. Give me a break! Maybe you should see the shallowness of your arguments and come up with something substantive. Maybe you should admit that the reason such things are blown out of proportion in the first place is because of the tepid reception of his faith. Your criticisms of Romney are

Not My Problem

, they are yours, and they make you look little.

Yes, "Government Investment in R&D" is pandering in it's worst form.

A lack of R&D is NOT the auto industries problem.

John Bolton for President
"FEAR THE 'STACH!!!"

I am not trying to call you a bigot. I don't think you or the majority are. Here is what I do think though.

Our paradigms are the product of our genetic heritage and life experiences. We filter all incoming experience through that paradigm, and viola, we have our reality! For non-Mormons, especially for those to whom the Mormon faith is not main stream, experiences with Romney are a little different. Those slight differences are apparent in your attacks, not because you are attacking him per se, (that is part of the process) but because you believe those attacks so adamantly.

It is said he has no core values, will say anything to get elected, is lying about his conversion on abortion (and then only in the governments role; he's always been personally pro-life), and other attempts at assassinating his character. All these attacks are based on the obvious built in biases that come with the territory of being different.

last I checked we don't decide nominees by national polls, but rather state to state. Also, anyone that isolates one poll is likely someone with an agenda. McCain leads in most of the states that count and that is all that counts.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor

The Provocateur

Who was polled? How many? When? What else was asked or stated?

He's referring to the Rasmussen tracking poll. He's not looking at the Fox poll that has McCain up 30 or the Gallup poll that has him up 20.

As an aside, but just taking a glance over some of the previous primary numbers on Real Clear Politics, but Rasmussen polls seem to be under counting McCain's support. In Florida they had Romney up solidly until the day before when the had McCain tied with Romney (he won by 5). In NH they had McCain up on Romney by 1 (he won by 5.5). In SC they had McCain at 24 percent and Romney at 18 (McCain ended up with 33 and Romney at 15). RCP doesn't include a Rasmussen poll in the final numbers for the other previous contests, but for the Feb 5 races they usually represent the low end of McCain support in the polls listed.

For most polling agencies that probably isn't a terrible record (they're always within the margin of error), but I guess I've become accustomed to Rasmussen being more on the mark.

"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions."

It shows a snapshot of a four day rolling average. This poll has had the following in the lead the past few months and even weeks: Mike Huckabee, John McCain, and Rudy. But only twice has it had Romney in the lead. I don't see it happening. Not enough time. And Romney has the same problem Thompson had, the more he campaigned locally the worse the numbers got.

there are dozens of polls, and the only thing I look at is the RCP average, because that takes all of them and merely gives the numbers as an average. Obviously, you don't like McCain so you found a poll that fit your world view. Anytime anyone points to one poll I stop paying attention to anything they say because that individual is biased. With all of the polls out there, there is no logical reason to show one poll. The only reason someone would only show one poll is because that result fits their world view.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor

The Provocateur

So that's two races where one polling firm has Romney losing by only three or four. What about the other twenty races? If this is the evidence of too close to call, Mitt's in trouble, especially since a close second in Missouri wins him zero delegates.

"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions."

At least it will have to without a Conservative at the top of the ticket. Since you keep insisting that McCain is not a Conservative and history and evidence show that neither Huckabee or Romney are Conservatives, we are left with left with our Liberal candidate running against the Dem's Liberal candidate in November.

Sorry, but Romney is supported by the vast majority of Conservative Leaders, Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, etc.

Most of those who support McCain are Liberal or Moderate.

McCain-Feingold is not Conserative
McCain-Kennedy is not Conservative
McCain-Edwards is not Conservative
McCain-Liberaman is not Conservative.

And he has constantly been winning the Conservative votes if you just looked at the exit polling.

sorry, I can tell people I am Latino, but if it isnt true, it isn't true. And Romney is not a conservative, well unless you count on what he says "since" he starting running for the Presidency.

Please substitute "McCain" for "Romney" in your last post and you will then be factual.

without thunder again telling the rest of us how the world will fall apart if McCain wins? I think they can so stop. We all know how you feel and at this point it is the re definition of overkill. Everytime I point it out you conspicuously leave the discussion only to resurface elsewhere to assassinate McCain's character some more.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor

The Provocateur

" Got to love the Lord for making things like that."
Morally Compromised

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I am beginning to see why Romney supporters are so exasperated. You actually think "If McCain/Huckabee win, it’s a Socialist/Liberal party versus a if Romney wins its a Conservative party" is true. It's not just pimping your candidate, you really believe that.

And the frustration comes from the fact that most Republicans don't see the race that way. Most see this as a choice between 3 flawed candidates. They see it as a trade-off. You can have the War Hero who sticks to his guns and agrees with you 50% of the time, the Governor who speaks beautifully but doesn't understand a thing about economics or foreign policy, or the Businessman who changes his views from state to state but when he's talking to you he says what you want to hear.

If you can't admit to yourself that your candidate isn't perfect and isn't The Conservative Savior, then you are setting yourself up to misread what is happening.

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just a better "bet" than McCain.

I think he is an andriod.

Just re-read your own post;

the Businessman who changes his views from state to state but when he's talking to you he says what you want to hear.

If the attacks weren't about the man being something he is not, then I would have no problem. He is not flawed in the way you and others like to say he is.

And we don't think McCain is flawed in the way you and others say he is. Most of us think he's fairly conservative.

John S. McCain III

But if you want to understand why he isn't getting every conservative rallying to his side, then it's time to step back and evaluate what is going on.

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Does McCain stick to his guns? On immigration, McCain now supports a fence. FLIP FLOP!!!!! He opposed the Bush tax cuts, before he supported them, and then he said he opposed them because they benefit the rich, but not he says he opposed them then because they didn't have spending cuts - a multi-dimensional flip flop. He sued the FEC to require it to regulate political dialogue on the internet, then insisted that he favored an unregulated internet. Why, he even opposed campaign finance reform early in his career, back before his being named one of the Keating 5 got him to adopt "reform" as a shield from further ethical criticism.

I think you would really understand why so many conservatives are exasperated, Adam, if you began to think more seriously about the real person John McCain is. To many conservatives, he is, as George Will put it, pretty much another Bill Clinton - and he gets away with it.

My perception of things is that Romney followers, more than most, have recognized the flaws of their candidate. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but I'm certainly not wrong in noting that virtually no Romney supporter thinks his man is perfect.

Brad Smith
Professor of Law
Capital University Law School
Capital University website
Center for Competitive Politics website

he thought it was irresponsible to cut taxes without cutting spending, what a novel idea. He has always supported the fence and the fence was part of his plan. What he has changed on is that he now wants to secure the border first and then consider the illegals here.

Look, you need to either pick one or the other. Either he has a mind of his own and thus has principle, or he has no principle in which case he would bow down to get your vote. You are now finding things to dislike because you dislike him.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor

The Provocateur

and no one answered it to my satisfaction.

You say

He didn't oppose the Bush tax cuts, he thought it was irresponsible to cut taxes without cutting spending, what a novel idea.

He actually opposed them because they favored the rich according to quotes from the time. Now he wants us to know he opposed them because there were no offsetting spending cuts.

If those tax cuts favored the rich then they still favor the rich today. Also, there are no offsetting spending cuts being proposed today.

So my question is: What changed for John McCain?

McCain now favors making permanent the very cuts he voted against twice, either because they favored the rich or because there were no offsetting spending cuts. Although neither of those things have changed, why does he now favor making them permanent?

BTW I strongly favor making them permanent. And I know each of these votes against tax cuts are an anomaly in his tax-cutting voting record.

What changed for him to now favor the very tax cuts he once opposed?

Sorry but McCain despises the public sector. He has always been for big government solutions and high taxes. And, there will be no fence. Please visit McCain's reforminstitute.org, funded by Soros and you'll readily see what he has in store for America--open borders and amnesty.

I don't like McCain because he is running from his dismal liberal record...he is a mean-spirited little man out for himself with no regard for our Constitution or sovereignty.

A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. Thomas Jefferson

My point was about Romney. I said they are all flawed. For awhile I've been saying people have to "pick their poison." And people are choosing among people they don't entirely agree with or like. It's not Mr. Perfect vs. Mr. Imperfect. It's a tough choice among imperfects. I'm realizing some Romney people here don't see him as imperfect. Thus, they are exasperated at how conservatives could ever support McCain over him.

And I'm not going into it, but McCain doesn't support a fence.

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If Fred was still in the race, then I would accept him. Its not so much that Romney is so perfect, its just that McCain/Huckabee are so bad.

parts of that poll:

"Are you registered as a Democrat, Republican or Independent?"

and

"In which primary do you intend to participate?"

Seems a good number of those independents are democrats. Bet that was the case in the other races we have already had as well. So McCain has been winning based on the Independent vote, right? Betcha that independent vote will not be there for him in November...

--roxer

Very serious, thats why I am likely to vote a split ticket this year. I predict if either McCain or Huckabee win, we are looking at a massive loss. I expect Red states to go blue.

Hard Core conservitives will abandon the Party or vote a split ticket. Just like we did in 2006.

Most of the West will go Blue, I predict.

Conservataive Democrats dominated the south for years and years. So what, the map changes and so do we. It is not nearly so dire as you state it. McCain will be a good president and most probably govern to the right of our current president.

Do others just ignore you? You continue to repeat a falsehood again and again despite multiple times I have witnessed someone correct it. The conservatives DID NOT sit out in 06, rather independents broke democratic overwhelmingly.

If Rs are going to win in 2008, it's important first to understand why they are losing. And self-serving stories like "Rs stayed home" are factually incorrect.

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...but wasn't Congressman Paul a whisper behind Congressman Flake?

So, does this study mean he's the true party standard-bearer in this election?

Or is it as useless as all the rest...

left, right, middle, et al, is that they aren't weighted. I.e. a vote to recommit a bill to committee on some procedural ground counts as much as a piece of major legislation, such as a tax cut or immigration reform. I think you can get some general direction that's about it.

My problem with McCain isn't acknowledging that he's done some good things (in fact I'm working on a diary re: MDS right now in which I willingly acknowledge some of the positions with which I agree with him). My problem with John is that when he is wrong, he is so wrong that it overwhelms a good chunk of his positive votes.

"All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

just curious. LOL

I would much prefer to have Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, Tom Tancredo, just to name a few of Great Conservatives over a truck load of Liberal Republican Governors.

like the ones you mention are entertainers mostly.

I see your Rush and raise you Ted Olson, Miguel Estrada, Steve Forbes, Phil Gramm, Tom Coburn, and Sam Brownback.

"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions."

Your inside straight proves that McCain is the insider. The out of Washington people, the ones that actually work for a living, like Rush and Sean think you are drawing from the bottom of the deck.

Since when is Ted Olson a conservative? On Fox he was endorsing Rudy before flipping to McCain.

Unfortunately, McCain is likely to draw a winning hand until he comes up against the "Kid" or the "Belle". These two poker players really know how to cheat.

That's just a bizarre criticism of these conservatives.

1. "Inside straight." Of the six supporters I mentioned, only Tom Coburn and Sam Brownback are currently in Congress, and I doubt that anyone that knows how to tie their shoes has ever called Tom Coburn a "Washington Insider" with a straight face. Currently Gramm is Vice President of UBS investments, Forbes obviously runs Forbes, and Olson and Estrada are in private practice. All may be influential inside Washington, but these folks aren't exactly Ted Stevens.

2. "Since when is Ted Olson a conservative?" The idea that you would question Olson's conservative credentials is just plain nuts. As any Federalist Society Member will tell you, he's a conservative legal rock star on par with Bork or Scalia.

"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions."

another liberal MA gov. I guess Celluci went against form and threw his support to the Conservative in this race.

Romney, are you the candidate for change, or the changing candidate?
Sure McCain, you can have my #$&^%#@$ vote if you want it.
FDT's Principles

best executive because at least for me, I can't vote issues anymore.

"All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

He was for Rudy now McCain. The Easter Liberal Rockerfeller Republicans Hate McCain.

Wow, what a bluner , I menat the hate Romney. Romney beat Swift Cellucci's LT Gov in a Republican Primary when Swift was Governor

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Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?

McCain's friends include Gramm, Coburn, Kyl, Flake, Ted Olson, Jack Kemp, Steve Forbes, Pawlenty, and numerous other conservatives. Only McCain can win the middle and the right. Romney is stuck with his 30%.

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Um, Gramm, and I am assuming you mean Lindsay Grahamnesty of the "America is not a country, but a concept" fame, and Flake of the amnesty, open borders STRIVE act and open borders buddies Forbes and Kemp are McCain's buddies. Wow what a parade of conservatives!!! BLAH!!!

because I'm not obsessed with the fact that some brown people want to be Americans.

I was talking about Senator Phil Gramm of Texas. He ran for President in 1996. He's one of those rare Fiscal Conservatives that have been getting the shaft for about 10 years. Yeah, him. And he's McCain's national campaign co-chair. He's a likely Sec of Commerce or Chief of Staff for McCain.

But since you don't care about Winning the War, Ending the Pork, Cutting the Spending, or Appointing the Judges, this won't matter to you. Take your obsession and go home.

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Really, well you should be obsessed with the fact that the legalization of some 20 million low-skilled workers and their families will be dependent on you for your taxes to support all of the benefits and entitlements they will be entitled to because you will go down with the rest of us into debt and soaring deficits.

Whoopee, Phil Gramm, let's see a former RINO who is no longer holding elective office.

Let's see what McCain and his gang of 14 did with the Bush nominated judges. Oh yeah that's right he stopped good Republicans from preventing the filibuster by the Democrats of George Bush's judicial nominees. Now President Bush's good conservative judges will never serve. Yeah, talk to me about McCain and judges, he said he'd never appoint a judge like Alito because he wears his "conservatism on his sleeve".

A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. Thomas Jefferson

knew there was some reason I did not like the man.

I have thought about that. This is the same scenerio that Reagan walked into, but we ended up with Carter in the mean time. I would like to prevent that horror. For those who haven't lived through that, Interest rates went up 20%, Unemploymnet went through the Roof, and the economy was in real bad shape. Oh, and we became the laughing stock of the world with the Hostage situation.

That is for sure. Keep trying, I am kinda warming up to your opinions. Let me see if I get this right: you don't like John McCain. Right?

His point was if McCain loses the general...

Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone. --Mitt Romney

No loser becomes the de facto head of anything---particularly if they are not currently holding an office.

"Romney becomes the de facto head of the Republican Party."

He is less popular among Rs than McCain or Rudy. He won't be in office. How could he be the "de facto head." Whoever McCain's VP choice is would be a closer guess. But more likely, McConnell gets the dubious title of Republican Leader.

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Bob dole didn't become the de facto head of the party because he lost the general. Losing the primary is different.

Romney has national face and name recognition now. He lost the media battle, the independents and liberal Republicans to McCain. If he loses, that's how history will be written. The conservative vote was split. Whether you like him or not, you have to admit he's come a long way from being an unknown eighteen months ago. He's winning over conservatives. And you cannot deny he has energy, patience, tenacity and organization and the will. He'll be great of the speaking tour too.

then conservatives prove that they have no problem with pandering as long as you pander to them. He is no more conservative than McCain, he just happened to find conservative religion just in time to run. If Conservatives see him as their savior, then it is only because they love to be told what they want to hear. If any of you really believe his sudden conservative principles, then please email me and I will get you some swamp land in Baghdad as well.

There are plenty of good reasons to vote for Romney. He is an effective manager and leader. He has been successful in everything he has tried, however if you are voting for him because he is conservative then you prove to be gullible to the most debased form of politics: pandering.

I just finished a piece about this and it is one of the things that has totally turned me off on the election. Here is the piece

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor

The Provocateur

but I totally agree with "There are plenty of good reasons to vote for Romney. He is an effective manager and leader. He has been successful in everything he has tried, however if you are voting for him because he is conservative then you prove to be gullible to the most debased form of politics: pandering."

I have become a reluctant supporter of Mitt only for the reasons you stated (I have problems with McCain's demeanor and from my standpoint I just don't trust him) but I am under no delusion that Mitt's a conservative. It would take about 4 years of Mitt walking the walk as to what he says he believes now before I would begin to believe the conversion is real.

"All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

There are plenty of good reasons to vote for Romney. He is an effective manager and leader. He has been successful in everything he has tried, however if you are voting for him because he is conservative then you prove to be gullible to the most debased form of politics: pandering.

This is one of the most true things I have read recently.

John Bolton for President
"FEAR THE 'STACH!!!"

I can see it happening, Romney being a leader in the republican party. I can see him chairing a committee that deals with conservative economics. Romney's last six years have been in public service, if you include his work with the Olympics, and I don't see that ending. After Dole lost, he did ads for Viagra. Romney's next moves will be much more productive.

Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone. --Mitt Romney

Or at least I think that is the way he is thinking. I think so too. We'd be fortunate if it works out that way. Go meditate and gain a clear perspective on what Romney offers this party. You are getting meaner and meaner, it's just not you. And if you think it's all the unfair attacks on McCain that got you riled, think again. They are not that Unfair!. He has a documented history of friction with conservatives, no need to expect something different than what your seeing as a result of him being the front runner.

Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now.

-White Goodman

I just pointed out that he is less popular among Rs than McCain or Rudy. I don't see how you become the Head of the Party when people don't like you. I think he'd make a great MI GOV, MI SEN, UT GOV, MA GOV, MA SEN. I'd vote for him if I lived there. And he could then establish his new views are not just for a Presidential run. I hope Huck runs for AR SEN as well.

I'm not irked by attacks on McCain. What I've never understood is why people go to such lengths to lie or mislead about him when there are so many real things to point out. If you don't like comprehensive immigration reform, attack him for it. But calling it "amnesty" just loses credibility. If you think he is wrong on the FMA say so, but don't say he's for same-sex marriage. And on and on. It's like BDS, it takes what could be strong criticisms and makes them sound unreasonable and unhinged. I don't recall you doing such things, but it has happened quite a bit from Romney supporters mainly.

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Please tell me how McCain's record of pro-gun control, anti-free speech, UN supporting, radical environmental stands, pro-amnesty/open borders are attacks, facts maybe, not attacks.

very good friends and then had a falling out. He hates the guy, and not for political reasons either. The were once close friends.

Buchanan also isn't thrilled with McCain's stance on Iraq and free trade.

"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions."

I love Pat. He's genuinely underate. So many Republicans became single minded after Iraq taht they wrote him off, but he is a great conservative and a gifted and humorous writer. that totally sounds like something Pat would write.

enough already. Who cares? Pat Buchanan is not an oracle or the standard bearer of anything. We all know you hate McCain. You refuse to respond when I point out that you have overdone your anger. Instead you move to another thread, or in this case, another part of the thread and assassinate him some more.

What exactly have you accomplished in your life that gives you, in your mind, the right to spit righteous indignation at McCain?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor

The Provocateur

What exactly have you accomplished in your life that gives you, in your mind, the right to spit righteous indignation at McCain?

A lot more than you have, this is class-less of you.

I Also served my country during the Vietnam war (but served Stateside). I also served took an oath to defend this country, did you?

And what exact accomplishments has McCain done.

Dilluted our Free speech rights!
Wants to open the border to illegal aliens.
etc.

I am also an American citzen, with a wife and child, and I want a better life for them than what McCain has in store for them.

Now, what have you accomplished that makes you so high and mighty.

Your post is entirely out of line, and I HATE it when I am forced to defend John McCain

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Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?

I didn't attack McCain's service, so please read better.

The question was, what Right did I have to challenge McCain, not anything about his service.

I did not attack McCain's service nor am I a ChicenHawking.

and I STILL resent having to even give the appearance of defending McCain.

========
Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?

Does anybody remember what McCain did to the Viet Nam Veteran POWs & their families during the POW McCain/Kennedy hearings? Don't see any POWs standing up for McCain.

Check out McCain's Reform Institute funded by no other than Hillary's best friend, George Soros.

Mitt Romney 2008
FDT's Principles

Next post, or last post; your call.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

That's going to be a "I'm sorry for doing a bad thing."

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

starts quoting Pat Buchanan.

BTW I thought he left the Republican party 8 years ago, did he join again?

___________________________________
Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.

when posters lament McCain's "mean" disposition. It's a dumb complaint- isn't Cheney supposed to be mean? Were not electing Mr.Congeneality, and I certainly would like a "mean" guy like Cheney to be President.

========
Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?

If Darth Cheney was running, it would have been over before the first votes where cast, and we would be talking about who the VP is going to be.

I think this is one of the mistake Bush left us, no air apparent.

Classic!!!

" Got to love the Lord for making things like that."
Morally Compromised

______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

I have nothing but respect and gratitude for VP Cheney -- for his service to our country and to his president. When it became apparent that because of the GWoT it would be imperative that we elect a Republican president in 2008, I had hoped that he would either retract his initial promise NOT to run for the top office, OR that he would resign in 2007 for "health" reasons, leaving Pres Bush the opportunity to appoint an heir apparent to the office. Originally my hope centered around Condi Rice, who would not only prosecute the GWoT to its fullest, but would (incidently) destroy the Democrat coalition of minority constituencies.

alas, it did not happen.

========
Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?

John McCain said it to John Cornyn.

"All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

The to whom and why make all the difference in the world.

"All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

isnt even giving out delegates on Tuesday, its not smart for any candidate to be there.

McCain '08

He may lose, but he starts tied instead of down 15.

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Who supports McCain now. I think John McCain in his own way is exactly what the Republican Party has wished for and frankly it's what they deserve. That's why I'm supporting him.

Are you saying you are supporting McCain to spite the Republican party?

I've never heard that one before but I guess it kind of makes sense.

I'm supporting McCain on the "merits" right now, which are evidenced in the numbers that honest people like Adam have placed onto this blog because they're being faithful and honest reporters.

I'm supporting him on the basis of that faithful and honest reporting. However, I don't have to like it. And I want him to know it. And I hope he appreciates that even though I think he's going to become this Party's nominee, I'm not going into supporting him (although I will pound the signs into the ground, and I will canvass for him, and do all the other things a Good Citizen of this Party is asked to do) -- I'm not going into supporting him with an entirely clear conscience and I don't want him to think that I am.

John McCain has a lot of 'splaining to do and he's still got a lot of trust of mine to earn, even though I think he's an inevitability right now. So it's not really spite, it's just that I want him and his campaign to know that he's on thin ice if he ... up.

... I won't use the profanity.

That is all.

And I have more to come in Part II, but I support McCain as the Devil that I know, and because I realize that Romney is probably too far out for most people to stomach in this election. It didn't have to be this way, but it is now. You cannot turn back clocks, and you cannot unsqueeze toothpaste from tubes, and you cannot reverse the laws of thermodynamics.

OK.

But I also want John McCain to know that I expect him to fight as hard for Republicans and Conservatives when we nominate him as he has against his other major competitors in this race, and *harder*. Because for Christ's sake if I'm going to vote for John McCain he'd better be in this game to win and not disappoint me.

No, never, the anti-first amendment, anti-second amendment, pro-amnesty, anti-border fence, conservative judge blocking, Treaty of the Seas United Nations-supporting, anti-tax lowering McCain!!!

You got one thing right, McCain is the devil...

A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. Thomas Jefferson

I don't get it, you don't like what I'm saying so you post a totally irrelevant quote after I post. How mature and how charming...

But I think McCain has one advantage over Romney w.r.t. the situation you address. McCain is already known by the general public. The electorate likes him and has an impression of him. Sure it's shallow, but it takes a lot more to change someone's opinion than to create it in the first place.

Romney would be open to a barrage of "defining" ads. I'm sure he would run his own to combat with them, but it would be much easier for Obama to define Romney than McCain. That's not necessarily fair and it's not something Romney controls, but it's how it works.

Fortunately, McCain gets us something that no other candidate could. He is a person who represents both experience and change. All the things that upset conservatives have made the McCain brand distinct from the Bush brand. Any unknown R would be labeled early and often as "an extension of the Bush years." But McCain has broken with Bush on spending, pork, and even war strategy. The public sees him on the MSM all the time. He is "change" for Republicans, but he also has more experience and leadership than any of the Ds.

The wave is against the Republicans, but McCain gives us a fighting chance.

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trouble with Romney. The base is likely to swallow hard and vote for McCain. However, there are evangelicals and people who do not trust Romney who will stay home. It is easier to see how the base comes out and votes, but not the ones that are motivated by deep convictions about Romney's creditials as a flip flopper and do not trust his religion. No, they are not bigots, they just do not trust it. I will vote for Romney if he is nominated for sure, but hundreds of thousands will not. McCain could lose, but Romney would die a thousand deaths.

I believe that McCain has more patching up to do than some McCain supporters realize. Those same evangelicals that, unfortunately, have a problem with Romney's religion also have a big problem with McCain for many reasons, not the least of which is calling two of their revered leaders "agents of intolerance" and mentioning them in the same breath as Farrakan & Jackson.

I believe it is the only reason Huckabee is still surviving. Add that to those who feel John has betrayed them on too many issues and no longer trust him...it's gonna be an uphill struggle to get the base to come out especially if Obama is the nominee. The only reason my wife will ever vote for McCain is to keep Hillary out of the White House. Otherwise, if McCain's the nominee, she'll leave the top of the ticket blank. (And she's not a political junkie like I am...just a casual political observer)

"All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/12/rumor_patrol_mccain...

McCain '08

McKennedy accepting matching funds. Say good-bye to McKennedy.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7494.html

Will the NYT and LA Times pinch in a few dollars?

I think Hillary (or Obama) will paint John McCain as the next incarnation of W. As far as I can tell that's a pretty accurate characterization.

So I'm curious (for McCain supporters): How can McCain set himself apart from the current administration? Are there areas where he can separate himself in a way that will win over conservatives and fight off the democrats?

I think that with the approval rating of the current administration being quite low and the possibility (likelihood? certainty?) of the economy being in poor shape during the campaign season for the general the democrats will have a pretty strong argument for change. I'm curious how someone like McCain will respond. I'm also a little curious how Romney will respond but at least he can claim he's not an insider.

Delegates/and how are they awarded/when?

Maine Republicans taking part in the state's presidential caucuses this weekend will give the winner a political boost -- and nothing else.

No delegates will be awarded through the caucus gatherings, which began yesterday and continue today and tomorrow. The Maine Republican Party said voters will participate in caucuses held in 80 percent of municipalities, up from 54 percent in 2006.

Maine voters want to ``make some noise before Super Tuesday,'' said Joseph Reisert, chairman of the Government Department at Colby College in Waterville, Maine.

Do you know how many delegates Maine has?

Fox is talking about Romney winning but it was a very short blurb and gave zero details.

If Maine is going to make some noise it hasn't started yet.

I bet you're right about being a political boost only.

It would cheer up the foot soldiers.

Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now.

-White Goodman

1) It is misleading to say that McKennedy has an ACU rating of 80. That's a LIFETIME rating, when his rating was 90+ 20 years ago.

2) Who has a higher conservative rating?
A. McKennedy (Republican) Arizon
B. Senator Nelson (Democrat) Florida

Answer almost the same - 65! That's why he is a Democrat in heart, despite what he has behind his name ("R or D")

2) When it comes to taxes he rates like a liberal.
When it comes to immigration he rates worse than a liberal.

When it comes to same =- sex marriage, he rates worse than a liberal.

but picking the lowest year out of a 20+ year career is not? Heh.

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______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

McCain's highest ACU conservative ratings were in 1980.

In 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 (the latest report) his rating declined from 70s to 50s. So, the trend has been to be a Democrat.

Again, in 2006, McKennedy's rating was almost the same as Senator Nelson (Democrat - Florida).

You are factually incorrect.

"Sen. McCain has been a source of SOME frustration" (emphasis added)
1) He has been an source of MANY frustrations;
2) He has been a source of many ANXIETIES, INSULTS, CONTEMPT, ANGER;
3) He was not a "source," but was ACTIVELY leading the charge against the conservatives;
4) He was a source of many BETRAYALS, LIES, FALSEHOODS, MISREPRESENTATIONS!

A vote for McKennedy is a vote for conservative New York Times and ultra-conservative Los Angeles Times! :)
How is that for a slogan?

========
Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?

(sigh!) I would like to, but I can't. (sigh!) I don't see any flaws in your analysis at all.

(sigh!)

========
Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?

that Sen. McCain is in la-la land and believes us conservatives are those that have the ring in our noses:

"I believe that the majority of Republican Party conservatives are convinced that I'm best equipped to lead this country, unify our party and take on the challenge of radical Islamic extremism," McCain told reporters Saturday.

Um, not according to the returns from the primaries so far. Maybe it's that tendency to use the word "conservative" loosely. Kind of like using "moderate" and "conservative" in the same description.

--roxer

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080202/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_conservatives

Because under Bush II it's been a bastion of conservatism. I don't want to say the party brand has had irreparable damage done to it but it's definitely taken quite a few lumps over the 2nd term (and a good deal of the first). I do like, however, that he's found his willingness to be a spending hawk now he has an opposition legislature. It's not genuine but at least it's something.

As far as I was concerned anything besides Huck and from Bush's "compassionate conservatism" is a step in a positive direction. McCain is a small positive step. Romney is a better step. Fred would have been the best step but you take what you can get.

Did you guys ever think that the MSM is so committed to having McNasty the nominee that they are producing inaccurate polls to suppress the Romney vote?

Don't fall for it. They did this with exit polling in the Bush/Kerry match up to suppress the vote for Bush.

Plus, they are wildly inaccurate all of the time, yet people continue to live and die by the polls and the MSM knows it.

Romney can beat Hillary and the MSM knows it...they are waiting in the wings to go after the Nasty John McCain!!!

The Bushes were the North-Eastern Elite. Reagan and McCain were the Sun Belt Revolutionaries.

A lot of people sucked it up and voted for Bush even though they disagreed with him on things. Fiscal conservatives especially. It's time for an anti-porker to have some time on top. And he's pro-life so the North Eastern Republicans aren't really getting someone in sync with them either.

However, I think the way of thinking about this as a coalition is really helpful. I hope McCain's VP is to his right on some things. Sanford/Pawlenty/Jeb would be a good place to start.

And that would signal that McCain isn't trying to take the Party towards the Whitman wing.

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All though his short list is littered with some OMG names; Rudy, Huckabee, Crist, just to name a few.

My reference to changing back to North Eastern Elite dominance is exactly about social issues. McCain is no champion of that cause, nor are the majority of his supporters. He received some insurance in the Rudy package, but right now it is not enough. Huckabee would not do it either. Not by a long shot.

Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now.

-White Goodman

Excuse me...McCain is a revolutionary and why? Because he is lib, posing as a moderate, who is actually a flaming liberal?

What's revolutionary is that such a horrible little man can garner enough votes to run as the Republican candidate for presidency.

McCain was part of the Reagan Revolution, maybe you missed it. It was full of young, pro-military, small government conservatives like Reagan and McCain.

Enjoy your petulant posting until you cross a line and get banned for your incivility.

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he was part of the Reagan movement. He started out as a very conservative congressman but to be fair he has evolved over 20 years.

It happens to most politicians that spend that wuch time in Washington. His ACU ratings have fallen mostly in the last 10 years.

This is probably why we haven't elected a senator since JFK.

Not trying to pick on McCain or rile you up AdamC but his votes in the last few years point to that.

McCain was a conservative til he joined forces with George Soros who funded his Reform Institute in 2001. Then he became the anti-Reagan, pro-gun control, anti-free speech, pro-United Nations, environmentalist, open borders/amnesty lib that he is today. McCain can't even claim to be a moderate except when he is running for president and away from his record.

You McCain supporters need to stop invoking Reagan's name in association with McCain, it's disturbing.

Don't think telling the truth will get me banned.

...on its own.

Stop. If for no other reason that I'm getting tired of having to ban people for being too over the top about a candidate that I myself can't stand.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Seriously, what is over the top on what I have said? Everything I have said about McCain is true...I can source it. Is it my sarcasm? Bad habit. Tend to respond that way when attacked. It's very effective.

No, never, the anti-first amendment, pro-amnesty, anti-border fence, conservative judge blocking, Treaty of the Seas United Nations-supporting, anti-tax lowering McCain!!!

A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. Thomas Jefferson

You just broke your own call for the Hinz Rule. Almost as funny as seeing Hinz break the Hinz rule a couple of days ago.

Jack Bauer For President 2008

A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. Thomas Jefferson

You are deliberately being confrontational in your attitude; ascribing bad motivations in not only a Presidential candidate, but also his supporters; and, no, considering that you are on the verge of getting tossed, your use of sarcasm is not actually effective.

This isn't a discussion, or a debate. This is a fairly beleaguered and increasingly frazzled site moderator telling you to behave if you don't want to be shown the door.

Moe

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Moe,
you must really be tired of banning people. I've seen you toss far quicker than this for much less than what KotahBear has said. Kotah, take the advice. Not many people get another chance with Moe.

Jack Bauer For President 2008

And that they have their reasons to be.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

I have only presented the facts. Maybe my sarcasm is ineffectual, but my facts are beyond dispute about McCain, even if it is seen as "ascribing bad motivations in a Presidential candidate". It's actually a very good site and I don't know why you are "beleaguered" and "frazzled". I was attacked as an 'idiot' by a poster and I never called anyone by such childish names...yet I doubt they were called on it.

You are a nice guy, Moe, sorry to have provoked people who have no grasp on the facts...thought people wanted to delve into candidate records, etc... Bet if I'd been against Romney things would be different... your marching orders probably exasperate you.

Bye!

No, never, the anti-first amendment, pro-amnesty, anti-border fence, conservative judge blocking, Treaty of the Seas United Nations-supporting, anti-tax lowering McCain!!!

That's just trying to get banned now.

Jack Bauer For President 2008

No, really I am trying to educate people with the truth. I am sincerely passionate about the Constitution. I really cannot stand by and let this happen to our country.

No, never, the anti-first amendment, pro-amnesty, anti-border fence, conservative judge blocking, Treaty of the Seas United Nations-supporting, anti-tax lowering McCain!!!

Don't people understand that just like Hillary Clinton, John McCain is against our 1st and 2nd amendment? The Senate just passed legislation to disarm our veterans and John McCain supported it---it was unanimous outside of Sessions and Vitter and a very few others, but not John McCain.

No, never, the anti-first amendment, pro-amnesty, anti-border fence, conservative judge blocking, Treaty of the Seas United Nations-supporting, anti-tax lowering McCain!!!

your marching orders probably exasperate you.

Just exactly what MARCHING ORDERS do you think the site moderators are receiving?

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Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?

Marching orders? Seek help.

HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

Adam, your facts are wrong. McCain did not grow up in the Sun Belt. He was a military brat, but never lived in the southwest during his youth, and he moved there to pursue his second marriage in the late 1970s. He's allegedly pro-life, but not reliably so because he's made it clear -- in cases like the Wisconsin Right to Life's radio ads -- that he's more interested in promoting and advancing McCain-Feingold than he is in promoting life.

The idea that McCain is cut from the same Sun Belt cloth as Reagan is a myth. During his teens he lived in suburban DC. He's actually closer to being a North-Eastern Elite than anything else.

Well that's new for me.
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Adam, "closer to" does not mean "equal to." I realize you're probably a recent public school graduate and have a difficult time with abstract thinking, but give it a shot. And get your facts on McCain straight while you're at it...

Recent public school graduate? What are you, a snob?

A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. Thomas Jefferson

As in, his next post.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

a description, or a sound...

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Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

2:00 for instigation -- 5:00 for roughing?

========
Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?

Jack Bauer For President 2008

People are right, watching you in action is a bonus of Redstate unto itself!

Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now.

-White Goodman

...this is no longer funny. We have people incensed over McCain screaming at people supporting McCain while people incensed over Romney push the buttons of both of those sets of people, while starting up little wars of their own against people supporting Romney. And, little by little, rudeness, incivility, and generally bestial behavior sets in.

And I - like pretty much the rest of the Contributors - am frankly getting tired of it.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

and I do think it's entertaining. If you got some personal beef with me than thats fine, but chill making me an example and stuff.

Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now.

-White Goodman

And I had to put the comment somewhere in the thread.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

I'm sorry but the exchanges here are mild disagreements. There is nothing wrong with spirited debate...that used to be how the Founding Fathers reached compromise...remember Patrick Henry and "give me liberty or give me death." Many have reached that point in this country and you can ban people, but the spirit of desiring to reinstitute the Constitution and our sovereignty is not going away...nor are Constitutionalists like me, going to give into people like McCain for the sake of something called the 'Republican Party'.

No, never, the anti-first amendment, pro-amnesty, anti-border fence, conservative judge blocking, Treaty of the Seas United Nations-supporting, anti-tax lowering McCain!!!

BTW, I am a woman and a mother and there is no way this country is gonna go down the tubes on my watch, nor on the watch of other conservative women I know. No PC here, just honest patriotism.

No, never, the anti-first amendment, pro-amnesty, anti-border fence, conservative judge blocking, Treaty of the Seas United Nations-supporting, anti-tax lowering McCain!!!

... Who often uses the same comment on himself. So no apologies Moe. And I stand by my commentary. If you wish to ban me while letting Adam C embellish the context of my remarks, feel free. It will certainly demonstrate that old Animal Farm maxim that some speech is more free than others. Perhaps RedState will go the way of the Whigs, too...

For the other smart guy who attempted to make a smart remark about my handle, I'm 45 years of age, and I first heard such a comment when I was around age 5. Now, there's lots of places I could go with this, but you get the idea...

Email the Directors when it's passed.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com

and you're an ***. So right now, I'd rather be me than you especially since I'll be back here in the morning and you probably won't.

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A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. Thomas Jefferson

That's surpising given all the talk here lately.

Ain't over yet.

______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

Is that this doesn't translate into any immediate delegate count. These caucuses don't bind national convention delegates.

I'd also be surprised to hear that Romney benefited from some ABM sentiment from Huckabee voters, since I was not under the impression that Huckabee had much support in Maine (is there much of an evangelical population there? Huckabee's shown persistent weakness getting votes from non-evangelicals).

I am clueless about Maine. I thought it would go to McCain.

They are a closed primary so maybe the only ones that claim to be Republicans are very conservative. That is where Mitt does best against them all. RP does better in that group too.

We haven't seen the last of Romney.

He is my #1 choice for McCain's VP.

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n/t

I know what I'm getting into with McCain. I do not know with Romney. I really don't see Romney as the next Reagan. I'm not willing to take a chance with him, because if we're honest, that's what we're doing.
For all of our posturing on bringing conservatism to the country, we've done a pretty poor job of it. We had the majority in congress and a republican president, and got nothing out of it. Whether you agree with McCain or not, at least he gets something done. This 'my way or the highway' mentality helps no one. McCain recognizes this, and I think this why he appears frustrated with the base at times. We're not going to get anything if we don't realize that the other half of the country doesn't agree with us, and that unless we agree to meet them halfway nothing will get done. The main complaints I hear about McCain are:
1. Gang of 14. I think it would have been short sighted of the republicans to invoke the Constitutional Option. We're looking at still being on the minority, and eventually there will be dem president. If they trot up some ultra-liberal for the bench, we're going to be glad that we'll have a means to stop it. So with an eye on the long term, I think McCain was right.
2. McCain-Fiengold. While I don't agree with this one,at least someone was doing something to address some of the issues with special interest groups trying to skew the election their way.
3. McCain-Kennedy. McCain catches a lot of grief for this one, and rightly so. However, this was what Bush has been calling for all along. And as president we see where that got him. With McCain as president he can push all he wants for the same type of imigration reform that Bush pushed for, but utlimately this issue lies with congress. Let's be realistic here, there's no way that Romney's plan will ever pass through congress. They don't have the stomach for it. So his plan is useless. Again - there's going to have to be a compromise.

The point is, McCain knows how to get things done. We're not always going to get our way, and neither is the left. We each have to give a little to the other side. That's why I'm voting McCain

Populist? By what definition? Because Rush and Romney say so? Huckabee is as much a populist as my black lab is a poodle. Huckabee is not promoting "farmer and workers" policies, as in the 1920s Populist party, nor is he promoting principles of a pure democracy instead of the principles of our American republic, which is the broader definition of a populist. Before you throw words around, you should know what they mean.

What evidence is there that Huckabee would raise taxes? None. His words and record are just the oposite. Point me to one place Huckabee has advocated, directly or indirectly, he would raise taxes.

What evidence is there he would increase the size of government? None. Just throwing feces against the wall to see what sticks works for chimps, not intelligent political debate.

The Fair Tax an "unwinnable concept"? Amongst whom? The big government politicians and bureaucrats of the left and right that benefit from getting their power through the wielding of government might in confiscating income? The Founders would never have supported our income tax scheme. The Fair Tax is popular with people who have to pay taxes. That sounds winnable to me. Keep in mind that "winnable" whether policies or Presidential candidates, is only determinable after the win. Try reading what the Fair Tax and HR 25 actually is - you may find out you have the worng idea of what it is.

You should explain what the heck FLA amd FMA is.

Romney remaining in the race will likely guarantee a McCain nomination. I hope that is what he wants.

========================
Christian. Husband. Father. Grandfather. Conservative. US Navy Veteran - all by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

I don't listen to Rush (I actually have a job and work during the day), and I haven't really listened much to Romney (I prefer to read).

Huckabee is a Populist because he thinks government can fix everyone's problems. He uses class warfare to convince people to support him.

The evidence that Huckabee will raise taxes is his experience as Governor of Arkansas. I believe that more than signing some "no new taxes" pledge.

Huckabee's stated policies on his website would increase the size of many governmnet agencies (Energy, Education, etc.).

To pass the FairTax he'll have to get the 16th amendment repealed. All that will take is 2/3rds of Congress and 3/4ths of the States to pass. There isn't nearly that kind of support, and probably never will be.

The *HLA* (not FLA) is the Human Life Amendment. Depending on which version he wants to pass (which he still won't say) it will take the same effort as the FairTax. The only time it ever made it to a vote, it didn't even get 50%. The FMA is the Federal Marriage Amendment. Same problem with it. I'm surprised you aren't familiar with these since they're an important part of Huckabee's platform.

If I had to take a guess, I'd say Romney would prefer McCain to Huckabee if he were not to get the nomination himself.

And by the way, I can relate to your signature. I'm a Christian, Husband, Father, Grandfather, Conservative and US Army Veteran - all by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

Mitt Romney 2008
FDT's Principles

Please take a deep breath.

Jack Bauer For President 2008

Mitt Romney stated during the last debate that the Big Dig
was mismanaged. Romney was the Governor. You do the math.

The MTA was a quasi-goverment agency. That means that Romney was not in charge of the Big Dig

Romney seems to think that the President needs to be gifted
in business. The president's job description glaringly omits the financial end of the stick.
Read it and weep! Someone needs to tell him about this gross waste of talent! Baaaahhh!

Business acumen does not mean just an ability to manage money. The fact that he was a CEO, not CFO, shows that he had an ability to manage people. The Chief Executive requires a lot of this particular skill.

Romney promised that he would fix Michigan with in 100 days of
office. What is he going to do buy Michigan too? What about the other 49 states?

Please provide a link to where he said he would "fix" Michigan. I do remember some pandering, but "invest" was more the theme I seem to remember.

Romney drove around for years in a city Chitty, Chitty Bang, Bang, dog feces covered car. That is not normal.

Wow, people still talk about this?

Romney has five sons. None of the five have served in the UNITED STATES Military. Including ROMNEY himself. This is the man asking us to make him the Commander-In-Chief? I think not!

Name the last President who did serve [prior to GWB...and he wasn't US Military]. I fail to see how this is a requirement.

Romney is spending his own money. Very wildly and in his efforts to buy the White House. Romney refuses to allow Americans to have the total of his input. You do the math again!

Let him spend his money. He earned it, he can spend it however he wants to.

Romney was making childish faces at the last debate. HELLO!

As opposed to McCain's smug looks.

Romney has employed computer practices that are illegal and down right smarmy called push-polling.

1. Provide proof
2. McCain and Huckabee have both been accused of this same practice.

In an effort to show how conservative ROMNEY is many of the
comments have come off as communist communications and
Anti-American. Similar to ROMNEY!

Anti-American...wow...I think that is all I can say about this one. I'll repeat...take a deep breath. I think your brain is suffering from a lack of oxygen.

Way to unify a PARTY Rush! Giddy up a ding dong Annesthesia go scream in vain!

And this type of behavior exhibits why many of us do not trust McCain. This is not only some of his supporters attitudes, but we have seen similar outbursts from the man himself.

And before you jump on me as a Rombot...I'm undecided. My dog quit the race a couple of weeks ago and I still can't pick between what's left. At this rate, I may just not vote Tuesday and promise to support the nominee.

Jack Bauer For President 2008

I was typing mine up when duty at work called me away from my computer for twenty minutes. Now mine just looks like a copycat of yours!

Vote for the ulti-Mitt conservative. Romney '08!

DISCLAIMER: I am loosly affiliated as a volunteer for the Mitt Romney campaign. All viewpoints expressed are my own, not the campaign's.

Jack Bauer For President 2008

Let me lay it out for you, chapter and verse.

1.) Big Dig. Ground was broken in 1991, planning went all the way back to the 1970's, and most of the problems with construction happened well before Mitt took office. Stupid point.

2.) The president doesn't need to be gifted in business, but it would help if he had, even in between military service and Congress, gotten a paycheck from someone that is not the U.S. government. Romney's point is that it certainly wouldn't hurt to have someone who at least realizes that interest rates can't be zero, and how to figure out a budget. Once again, stupid point.

3.) Link to that 100 days Michigan quote, please. I can remember him saying he would help, and it's certainly in order, if one state is doing exhorbiantly worse than the rest of the country. Possible good point, but judging by your post, doubtful.

4.) What does his car have to do with it? My belief in the ability of people to think intelligently for themselves is starting to be undermined by your comment.

5.)Coming from a veteran, I can tell you that military service is nice, but not required. Nobody has any rights to say that military service should be compulsory. The fact that you would try to exploit that fact to try and undermine his resume or his patriotism quite frankly disgusts me. We don't require our commanders to be current or prior military for a very good reason. It would be nice if you could tell me why that reason is. If you can't figure it out, though, it actually wouldn't be that surprising.

And, according to your logic above in #2, the Constitution doesn't require it. So there.

6.) If you are truly a conservative, I think you would applaud this, as it means that he is actually investing something of his own in the process, rather than expecting donors or the taxpayers (like some FEC fund-receiving frontrunner) to do it for you.

7.) Childish faces? Show me where. By the way, did you see McCain's cocky smile, looking down his nose at Romney for even possibly thinking that McCain might be wrong?

8.) Everyone does push-polling. No, it isn't illegal or smarmy (do you even know what smarmy means?). It's called campaigning.

9.) How is anything the commentators on this site, or anything Romney has said, communist or anti-American? And please, respond, or I will be sending a complaint to the directors.

Vote for the ulti-Mitt conservative. Romney '08!

DISCLAIMER: I am loosly affiliated as a volunteer for the Mitt Romney campaign. All viewpoints expressed are my own, not the campaign's.

Blam.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Live and learn fellow traveler...

Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."

...which attempts to stop a debate by insinuating that the lack of military service is an absolute requirement for public office. Traditionally the province of the more dribbling of the Online Left, it is also beloved of militarists, actual fascists, and people who wear their underpants upon their heads. It's an instant-ban here, mostly because we got tired of dealing with people who can't seem to grasp the concept that the military power is and must be subordinate to the civilian.

So nobody reading this do that, 'kay?

Moe

PS: Anyone with objections may send them via the Contact link, thanks. We don't argue this.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."

(Moe, fast and furious)... I'm sure there must have been extenuating circumstances though. It would be nice to know the actual causes for future reference - us peons sometimes don't have a clue..

Actually, I am prodding for the actual reasons to be disbanded...heh.

Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

does that mean that if I disparage someone that is not a veteran I could be banned? Just curious...ya know...heh...

Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."

Bottom line is, military service is not a prerequisite for participating in political discussion, seeking political office, or holding various and sundry policy positions. We ruthlessly police for that, too.

If you have further questions, please use the Contact link.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!