Redstate

how many people in America are going to have a clue who those two guys in the scratchy black and white are? And didn't that round-faced balding guy sound funny? Sounds like all he wants to do is fight.

Frankly, I don't think that ad gets anybody who wasn't already disposed towards McCain.

In Vino Veritas

I think the purpose of this ad is to try to lock down support of the Republican base. If you agree with the world view espoused by either Hillary or Obama odds are you aren't going to recognize Winston Churchill.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

that's an arrogant assumption to make, I have heard of Churchill, the world's most likeable racist, and I know all about roosevelt the former, the greatest american imperialist. And just so you know, Mccain is invoking Churchill's speeches which were made when he was in the position of our enemy. We are not under attack from a larger, more sophisticated aggressive military power, we invaded them, and they seem to be doing exactly what Churchill inspired the Britons to do, never, never never surrender even against overwhelming odds.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.Let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."-Barry Goldwater
McCain/Rudy 08-kill the terrorists and punch the hippies.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.Let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."-Barry Goldwater
McCain/Rudy 08-kill the terrorists and punch the hippies.

Can someone clarify the jargon for me? It seems to be a "cleanup on Aisle 5" rule, to rid ourselves of a "moby" or "troll". Is this in fact, correct?

Erik

the Hinz Rule states:

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

Erik

they became a threat and he was ridiculed and ignored.

FYI: We are under attack every day. We tend to win more than we lose. AQ and other groups my not be "larger" but they sure as hell are "aggressive" in their brand of warfare.

I would suggest getting your head out of the sand. It is we who need inspiration, not religious fanatics who just can't wait to deflower 72 dark-eyed virgins for murdering a few infidels.

"The most dangerous form in which oppression can overshadow a community is that of popular sway" -James Fenimore Cooper

And I bet you didn't even mean to construct it. Of course because you disprove your own point why would you ?

By your reasoning Churchill's speeches were equally applicable to the Nazis or the Imperial Japanese. Obviously they didn't. So what does this say about your universe ?

1. You consider the Nazi axis morally equivalent to the Allies.
2. You consider us morally equivalent to the Nazis.
3. You consider AQ justified.

My what a world you live in.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

I'm really not making that much of a leap, Churchills speech was something any leader would give to a nation that is being invaded....

My argument did not claim that the allies and our current enemies are "morally equivalent," in fact, I explicitly called them our enemies, but that does not change the fact that we willingly invaded them and now face a committed insurgency.

I do not consider us morally equivalent to the nazis, if you'll look harder, I make no implications about the morality of the invasion, I'm just putting it in its proper context, we are not fighting iraqis in America, we are fighting them in Iraq.

Churchills speech was made around the time of the battle of Britain, not the battle of the bulge.

Finally, I argue you and those who buy John Mccain's corollaries to WWII the absurdists, WWII was started at Pearl Harbor and when the axis declared war upon us. The war in Iraq was started with, well, I've seen people banned for talking about why this war was started, I guess we're fighting for freedom or something now though.

I have heard of Churchill, the world's most likeable racist, and I know all about roosevelt the former, the greatest american imperialist.

______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

Yes, i said churchill was a racist because he was, and i said roosevelt was an imperialist because he was and he was proud of it.

That does not make them nazis, hitler was by far the greater racist and imperialist, but WWII was not a clear-cut dichotomy of good vs. evil, the allies had been brutally dominating africa for a century, the raj was still intact in india, and America was staying neutral in the war because to most it looked like a fight between two no-good power-hungry imperialists, and it was.

To the ridiculous. But just so you know, American Samoa and Guam were truly magnificent additions to the American empire.

P.S. The Eagle on the great seal, its winking at you.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

it is obvious.

WWII was started at Pearl Harbor and when the axis declared war upon us

Poland had nothing to do with it.

ugh, of course I know WWII was started IN EUROPE in 1939 with the blitz of poland, but America did not involve herself until pearl harbor. stop nitpicking.

In Vino Veritas

too many fine spirits and a short temper often lead to incontinence. Would someone on your side tell him to stop embarrassing himself, because i'm getting tired of it.

Want to explain that howler to the men of the USS Kearney and USS Reuben James?

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

Lend-Lease in there, too.

And....didn't the draft start in 1940?

______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

2. The WTC attack left as many dead as Pearl Harbor

3. Iraq repeatedly violated a cease fire agreement that left Saddam in power in 1991 on the condition he open his country to inspectors. He lied and then kicked the inspectors out in 1996. Ansar Al Islam moved in to Iraq in Sept 2001 and became a proxy for AQ and Iraq to continue the war against the Kurds in the north.

We are allowed to talk about it. It just gets old running over the same ground again and again with people who refuse to acknowledge facts.

"The most dangerous form in which oppression can overshadow a community is that of popular sway" -James Fenimore Cooper

heh

www.win-the-war.com

Really? I disagree. The French said (in effect) "we cannot defeat Hitler so why not just accept the new European order and crave out our own little piece (vichy France)" The Russians said "WTF Adolf Hitler, our secreate ally, has mounted the largest attack in the history of mankind on us? Should we move the airplanes? Why bother?"
Britian was not invaded either, they were under the threat of invasion. America is actually being invaded by Mexicans who feel that this land is thiersm, but not even the Republican nominee wants to actually do anything about it, much less fight back.

The largest possible carbon footprint you can have is opposition to nuclear power. Not that we should worry about "carbon footprints" in the first place.

I've been around and had work for me enough twenty and thirty-somethings to well know that the vast majority of them believe that the Creation was the moment of their birth and have virtually zero knowledge of anything about history or politics they didn't see in a movie or on MTV.

As to the rest of your screed, it's good to see you got a thorough government school education.

In Vino Veritas

don't call me a punk, blowhard.
secondly, if you think I'm offended when you insult the ignorance of my peers rather than myself, I'm not. You however need to to cut back on the wine, because it makes you loud and obnoxious.

to ignorant, mind-numbed punks - such as yourself.

In Vino Veritas

I've been around and had work for me enough twenty and thirty-somethings to well know that the vast majority of them believe that the Creation was the moment of their birth and have virtually zero knowledge of anything about history or politics they didn't see in a movie or on MTV.

Not to get in the way of your righteous flaying, but I hope that your next move is not going be to hold up the "me generation," b. 1946-1963, as your paradigm of selflessness and citizenry.

For we have a peculiar power of thinking before we act, and of acting, too, whereas other men are courageous from ignorance but hesitate upon reflection.

The "children of the sixties" were in reality the children of the fifties. Our fathers were the factory workers, merchants, men in gray flannel suits, and such that were for the first time in history in large numbers making enough money to live relatively affluently without having inherited anything. Our mothers were mostly stay at home moms. We were raised in that straitlaced American way that the intelligencia so railed against. While we had our dalliances, we had a place to go back to.

Some of us went into academia, government, entertainment, or other insulated jobs that allowed you to keep even until today the same dumba** ideas you had smoking dope in a college dorm room in 1969. Most didn't, and if you haven't noticed they're the ones who are pretty much running the Country and making the money these days.

I can't tell you how much I'm enjoying watching from afar the mess that my Gen-X and Gen-Next successors have made since I retired. The only thing I think I've enjoyed more is some of the consulting contracts I've had that put me in a adversarial proceeding with them; it was like hunting in a baited field.

In Vino Veritas

I didn't mean to strike a nerve here, AChance. But to correct you on one fact: no member of "Generation X" (b. 1964-1976) was "smoking dope in a college dorm room in 1969."* (Your claim: "Some of us went into academia, government, entertainment, or other insulated jobs that allowed you to keep even until today the same dumba** ideas you had smoking dope in a college dorm room in 1969.")

So us post-boomer types must have gotten our "dumba** ideas" from somewhere else.

Moreover, your spirited defense of your generation and generalized assault on everyone else does not exactly dispel the stereotype of the "me generation."

Anyway -- and I mean this sincerely -- all the best & enjoy your retirement. See you on another thread.

von

*Except for Doogie Howser, of course.

For we have a peculiar power of thinking before we act, and of acting, too, whereas other men are courageous from ignorance but hesitate upon reflection.

I was specifically referring to the Boomers you were deriding as "smoking dope in a dorm room in 1969, but in any event, your lack of comprehension does sorta help my case.

In Vino Veritas

Achance, two responses -- then I'm done with you. You wrote (my emphasis):

"Some of us went into academia, government, entertainment, or other insulated jobs that allowed you to keep even until today the same dumba** ideas you had smoking dope in a college dorm room in 1969."

I understood "you" to take it's ordinary English meaning and mean the person addressed, i.e., me. Since I'm not a boomer, I found it a fairly odd statement. Hence my comment.

Thank you for clarifying that you meant to write "the boomers" instead of "you". Next time, however, you might want to make your necessary clarification without the insults.

For we have a peculiar power of thinking before we act, and of acting, too, whereas other men are courageous from ignorance but hesitate upon reflection.

to demonstrate that no "clarification" was necessary, but like some other activities, it would irritate you and frustrate me.

In Vino Veritas

... There are no celebrities overdubbing the words along with.

absentee

Kos will probably accuse McCain's people of darkening the colour to make Churchill look black.

John S. McCain III
Eric Cantor for VEEP

They need some Ronald Regan video:

"Tear down this wall"

Followed by pictures of the Berlin Wall coming down, and a voice over of McCain speaking about how people thought the Wall would never come down, and that we ought to make our peace with it instead of wasting our resources in opposing the Warsaw Pact.

Remind people that evil is not defeated by despair and defeatism, but by courage and determination. (Didn't Reagen say something like that once?).

Sorry but the under 30 crowd -- educated in government schools -- will draw a blank on this ad tho the over 60 bunch may wave their flags and approve

There are a lot of older, smart voters who are frustrated with the Iraq war and uncomfortable with Bush who have likely strayed to the Ds ...even though the face of the current Democratic party is not one that they're entirely comfortable with either.

Those older, smart voters who aren't necessarily anti-war but have fallen into the anti-war coalition can definitely be reminded of the stakes here with this ad. There are so. many. Americans. who don't realize, really, that there is a global war on terrorism going on; they don't think about the stakes, they don't think about the consequences, they just are uncomfortable with what they view as the changing social conservative tenor of this country and what they view as the ineptitude of Bush. They're the ones likely to have voted Republican if we kept on with the GWOT without adding Iraq into the mix. They are the ones who already are likely to swing to McCain, but they can also be tempted by the hope and change of Barack Obama - no, I don't think he only appeals to younger voters. Ads like this one are emotional and they stay with you so even in this 'non-national security' election you can't get this ad out of your mind. Casting this as a fight for our way of life, our ideology, our very existence as a nation...brilliant.
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Barack Obama. A Change for the Worse.