MSNBC Debate: Open Thread II
Since we're nearing 300 comments on the first one
By Ben Domenech Posted in 2008 | Debate — Comments (110) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Let's shift your post-debate comments here. A real slugfest at some points - but mostly originating from Tim Russert and Brian Williams, not the candidates.
For my own part, I await the response from the Batman campaign.
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Here's the latest REALCLEARPOLITICS.COM poll results:
McCain 26.9%
Huckabee 19.7%
Romney 16.7%
This is the average of all national polls. It seems that ol' Mike got a boost in Florida! Apparently Ron Paul was rated highly as well, but (big surprise) didn't get a rating. I saw a report on MSNBC that said that Dr. Paul was asking too much of a change in the GOP too quickly. I think many people agree and have gone to the next-biggest change candidate, Mike Huckabee. I also noticed during the debate, that John McCain praised Rudy for 9/11. This was intentional as a way of pressing some of Mitt's votes toward Guiliani so McCain would have a better shot at the 57 delegates. Good move.
But the overall winner of the night was Mike Huckabee, when he explained the "Fair Tax" in more detail (first time) and shut Chris Matthews down. He also had several zings and quotables "pimps, prostitutes, and drug dealers....you know....Non-Republicans."
Way to go Mike.
Conservatism is already compassionate... it doesn't need to be tempered with compassion.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
to take faxes from the Demos during the Republican debate.
___________________________________________________________
Molon Labe!
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
Didn't they say "rival campaign?" I would assume it is the campaign of one of these guys on stage.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
either way, the moderators have been outlandish.
___________________________________________________________
Molon Labe!
The President and General Petraeus deserve credit for the surge, but it's Rumsfeld's fault it was previously mismanaged. I guess Rumsfeld passed the responsibility back to the military and executive branch?
I am done watching. Goodnight.
"Nec Aspera Terrent"
bene ambula et redambula
Contributor to The Minority Report
satisfied now?
(of course none of the candidates is going to attack bush directly right now during the primaries)
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
compared to the democratic debate earlier this week. Let's get the gloves off!
At a minimum they need to identify the campaign it came from... they shouldn't even be talking about it.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
:)
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
Its your problem. If somebody's faith is giving you a problem your perceived tolerance is false.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
HWMNBN takes a commanding lead.
"Any love letter is incomplete without a Ronald Reagan quote"
--my sophomore year roommate
I thought the debate was a bit boring. I guess I expected more fireworks
I thought Huckabee did worse, Rudy seemed irrelevant, and both Romney and McCain each scored points but neither seemed like obvious winner
with the exception that I think Rudy did rather well on the whole, and is far from irrelevant
But we'll know for sure how relevant he is soon enough
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
With the exception of Ron Paul. Who probably did the most for himself by not saying anything completely insane.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Huckabee, again taking the lead on admonishing our current administration correctly, by stating that China will feel more of an economic stimulus from this fraudulent "stimulus" package than we ever will. Especially well said after Mitt's take on how the Fed should pull the levers of capitalism. President and CEO of America.
I support Governor Mike Huckabee for President.
I'm here to hear the candidate talk about his positions and his character, not to do amateur political analysis. Geez, why didn't they just flash a graphic saying "Loser!" on the screen while Giuliani was talking. That would be just as classy.
...Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann break down our candidates.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
a second center-right news network.
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
I have a lot of trouble believing that MSNBC will ever come around...
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
(not you, it's just a saying you know)
I someone on high thinks they'll make money on it, a radical change might work.
Murdock is no conservative, that's for sure.
but i'm not so sure that will be enough to make them change. i think that these folks - just like hollywood - are more attached to their political and social beliefs than they are to surviving economically
we agree, however, that one way or another, what is now msnbc will change fundamentally
i hope we're right!
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
If they'd snap up Greta and Geraldo, why not Keith?
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
They're already starting to compete with CNN for the centrist news show. Competing with MSNBC isn't that far a stretch.
There already is a gap for real conservative news. If someone came out with it, the implosion from the Fox News studio would take out most of the power in Times Square.
I think it was a tie between Romney and McCain. Rudy is the loser because he needed to shake things up.
John S. McCain III
We've come a long, long way together/Through the hard times and the good
I have to celebrate you, baby/I have to praise you like I should
"McCain sounded Reaganesque...while admitting he's been independent at times." Thank you for the analysis, PMSNBC.
Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone. --Mitt Romney
I almost died laughing when I heard that brilliant comment.
"I guess the lesson learned here is that it doesn't matter where everyone is from as long as we're all the same religion." - Peter Griffin (Family Guy)
Hey, where was Fred? Wasn't he building up some momentum?
-- digitalhap
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
Tim Russert to never be let near a Republican debate ever again.
but I think he was a little over the top tonight. Two things stuck out to me. One was when he asked "what do you mean exactly?" after Romney made his comment about slick Willy being in the white house with nothing to do. The other was when he asked the questions that apparently MSNBC wanted the other candidates to ask Romney after they questioned each other. That was weird but it gave Mitt a lot of time and he handled it well.
"I guess the lesson learned here is that it doesn't matter where everyone is from as long as we're all the same religion." - Peter Griffin (Family Guy)
the man used to make an attempt at seriousness
now he's just another liberal consumed by bush-hatred
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
Whoever our nominee turns out to be, they will benefit when debating the Dem nominee, by having been tested by these baiting questions the Dems will not have faced.
but not enough to make an impact.
Again the x-factor is how much Huck takes away from McCain...
«I'm not concerned about the voters. I'm concerned about the other guys in this stage..»
Gaffe of the night for Romney.
Since my remote doesn't work, I'll just update what's happening on MSNBC. Apparently, Huckabee is the only candidate who has beat the Clinton machine. Romney's response was pretty funny though, and even funnier was that he avoided the follow up question. (asking him what he meant by that).
Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone. --Mitt Romney
The civility among our candidates was a welcome change. The most played clip from the last debate of the Democrats was of the fight between Hillary and Obama. Hillary for being on Wal-Mart's board and Obama for representing a slumlord. They came off as childish compared to our candidates tonight.
The attempts as "gotchas" tonight came consistenly from the moderators. The moderators showed clearly their liberal biases. Our candidates all handled themselves and the biased questions well. Ours looked like adults. Ours looked like they could be President. Theirs looked petty and childish.
I liked Paul's last answer.
--roxer
...during the debate. Sounded like someone was whispering to him during Russert's Reagan 1983 question. Let's see if it pops up on Youtube.
but I think it came from someone near Russert, probably the crowd. I remember one debate earlier in the year, there was someone right behind the moderator table literally laughin at Huckabee.
**"The issue of economics is nothing something I've understood as well as I should." - John McCain"**
and whispered taxes. I do not think there was a conspiracy, like the microphone theory feeding Bush answers...
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
I wish he would say "raise the retirement age to 70," but then, I doubt that would fly with the voters.
Why don't you ask Rudy if he stopped beating his wife.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
___________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: I am a member of a state-wide executive committee that is affiliated with Governor Mike Huckabee's campaign for the GOP presidential nomination
Even as a Romney supporter it's really hard not to like the man personally. I think he had the single funniest line of the night, and it was genuine. I really wish this race wasn't so bruising in that way, because for all the abuse Huckabee has taken here he showed tonight why so many people really do care for him, beyond all the other issues. He's really a likeable guy. And I thank him for asking the question he did of Mitt Romney. It was about time someone posed it openly.
Maybe it's for the best that it was another Republican candidate that posed the question, because it demonstrates that nobody (including me) is going to let Romney slide on the issue.
So even though I can't support you, Governor Huckabee, tonight I thank you and appreciate your being in this race this long.
Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now.
-White Goodman
Romney needed to be challenged on guns at some point. Since Fred has left, only Huck really has solid credentials on that issue. Romney has danced on that one a bit, and I'm glad Huck asked the question, and he did it in a respectful manner, too.
Romney's not perfect on this issue, to be sure, but I thought he gave a good answer.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
Yes. I'm glad Huckabee asked and I'm glad Romney committed himself to sticking with the laws we have.
If anybody else asked a real question besides Huckabee. He was trying to trip up Romney in a bad way, but that's the point. All the questions should have been like that. I hate this softball alliance junk like "Hey Huckabee, why don't you tell me about this cool FairTax thing you support?"
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
___________________________________________________________
Molon Labe!
He stated that he won the majority of Republican voters in NH and SC. I could be wrong but I have never once heard this. I thought that Mitt won Republicans in NH and Huck won Republicans in SC. Where would he have gotten these stats?
**"The issue of economics is nothing something I've understood as well as I should." - John McCain"**
But McCain won registered Republicans in NH. Mitt won self-identified Republicans in NH.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
but also probably by accident or misunderstanding. In both cases, he did not win a majority but a plurality assuming he actually did get the most votes from R's in those states...
"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
Ronald Reagan
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
Huckabee pissed me off, which is not unusual.
McCain does not look either Presidential nor Intelligent, actually didos for Huckabee.
Romney will hear about his "I'm not concerned about the voters. I'm concerned about the other guys in this stage.." statement. Completely taken out of contest though.
Rudy moved solidly into my #2 slot. I also think there is a certain, umm, warmth building between him and Romney. A possible coalition to counter McHuckster perhaps?
Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now.
-White Goodman
But when you respond to a question by answering that you surround yourself with good people, and can't/won't answer yourself, well, that is not impressive.
Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now.
-White Goodman
It's a little tough to swallow your comment about McCain's lack of intelligence when you use interesting and novel words like "didos" in your post.
Did you mean "ditto"?
Maybe "dittos"?
Maybe "adios"?
Or maybe I shouldn't give you the benefit of suggesting that you know what word you meant to use and that you may have just not known how to spell it.
Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now.
-White Goodman
Yes, I'm a Romney guy but come on - he got the most time, he had the best answers, he had the best one-liners. This was now his best debate.
My rankings:
1. Romney - Great one-liners about Hillary and Bill. Owned the section on the economy. Looked comfortable the entire debate.
2. Guiliani - Solid. Good answers. Solid on the economy and I just felt he came across better than he has.
3. McCain - Worst moment was hearing that the NY Times endorsed him. I actually loved Rudy's answer about this. There were a couple of times on the economy that his answers rambled. He was mostly hurt by the focus on the economy. I felt like he was dishonest about tax cuts and global warming.
4. Huckabee - Probably his worst debate but it was nice of MSNBC to make evangelicals forget by throwing the softball religion question at the end. Huckabee's going to get hammered for his WMD remark.
5. Paul - When he talks about the economy he actually makes a lot of sense - what? Did I really just write that RP makes sense??? Other than that, sounded more whiny than usual.
Biggest loser - Tim Russert. I have been a fan of his for a long time but I thought he was a horrible moderator tonight.
**"The issue of economics is nothing something I've understood as well as I should." - John McCain"**
___________________________________________________________
Molon Labe!
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
Whether you agree with the fair tax proposal or not, I liked it when Tim Russet essentially pooh-poohed it and Huckabee wouldn't let him do so, he just kept talking over him until he stopped. Huckabee's point being that that's just the kind of attitude people are tired of from Washington.
Yes, the tax code is a mess, the IRS is a monster, we promise we'll do something about it. It doesn't get done - it's too hard.
He may be out of the picture at this point, so this observation may be moot, but Huckabee strikes me as someone with a sense of vision and a 'can do' attitude that inspires and motivates. That, combined with his disarming manner, could be a plus in convincing the muddled middle to check the Republican box in the election (especially when contrasted with Hillary) and while in office, in bringing people together to actually solve problems and get things done, like revising the tax system.
Don't bother listing all the problems he has as a conservative, we all know what they are - I'm just making an observation, that's all.
That's the problem I have with Huckabee's Fair tax. He seems to not get all the stuff you'd have to push through before you get to the actual overhaul. If you don't do all the other stuff first, you end up with quite a bit more tax to pay.
I'm not into debating this right now, either. It's not that I don't see it as a "one day it could happen" thing, cause it is. Just not for a long time. I'm more into solutions that can happen and fix stuff now.
As for the debate, I think Romney and Rudy did well. All in all it was a very tame night. The moderators suck.
Though I am definitely supporting Mitt Romney, I thought Rudy won the debate tonight.
I believe that Romney and McCain both performed well.
since Rudy is my guy, and I agree he did well tonight. My impression though is that Mitt came across best this time.
McCain had a clearly worse night than either of them, but not bad enough to do himself any serious damage.
McCain: unchanged - did ok
Romney: hurt by unwillingness to discuss his campaign finances.
Guiliani: Did well.
Huckabee: Gained - did very well
Paul: Gained - did well.
The biggest "gainer" of the night was Mike Huckabee. The biggest "loser" of the night was Mitt Romney.
Here's the latest REALCLEARPOLITICS.COM poll results:
McCain 26.9%
Huckabee 19.7%
Romney 16.7%
This is the average of all national polls. It seems that ol' Mike got a boost in Florida! Apparently Ron Paul was rated highly as well, but (big surprise) didn't get a rating. I saw a report on MSNBC that said that Dr. Paul was asking too much of a change in the GOP too quickly. I think many people agree and have gone to the next-biggest change candidate, Mike Huckabee. I also noticed during the debate, that John McCain praised Rudy for 9/11. This was intentional as a way of pressing some of Mitt's votes toward Guiliani so McCain would have a better shot at the 57 delegates. Good move.
But the overall winner of the night was Mike Huckabee, when he explained the "Fair Tax" in more detail (first time) and shut Chris Matthews down. He also had several zings and quotables "pimps, prostitutes, and drug dealers....you know....Non-Republicans."
Way to go Mike.
Look. I'm suppossed to be a semi-retired lurker.
But I can't do that when you:
a) Post really lame stuff ... i.e. national poll data when talking about the state of Florida. If you can find RCP's national averages, I'm sure you can work it out to find the Florida averages which basically show a tie between McCain and Mitt with Rudy third and Huckabee trailing badly.
b) When you post the exact same talking points in AT LEAST THREE different locations (twice in this thread and then once as a diary).
You gotta stop this. I'm suppossed to be retired.
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm