NH Debate Open Thread
By Mark I Posted in 2008 | debates | New Hampshire | Primary | Republicans — Comments (259) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
The Republicans have been going at it for the past hour in New Hampshire on ABC. How's your guy doing? Discuss it here.
UPDATE: And it's over.
Quick reactions: Romney took a big hit. He looked desperate and flailing. McCain was a little subdued and fell to the temptation to kick Romney while he was down.
If only Fred Thompson had as much energy as he has gravitas. He needed to be a bit more aggressive.
Giuliani was characteristically solid. Huckabee managed to get through it without really saying much of anything. And then there was Paul.
My guess is that McCain and Giuliani go up, Romney and Huckabee go down, and Thompson stays the same.
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I was starting to wonder if this debate seems anticlimactic to many of us after the fun we had Tuesday night.
Fred has sounded good but he almost has too many funny 'gotcha' lines. Mitt's attempt at sound-biting his insurance program was pretty painful to listen to and he is shoveling hard--questionable whether he's digging himself into a deeper hole or hitting paydirt, probably the former. McCain sounds confident and in his element. Huckabee is fading into the background, but as others have noted this isn't his stage.
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
Mitt is getting pounded on all sides. I can't say I expected that.
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
John Paul Jones (letter to M. Le Ray de Chaumont,16 Nov.1778)
and get trough first grade....UofA here we come.
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
John Paul Jones (letter to M. Le Ray de Chaumont,16 Nov.1778)
Romney's clearly the target tonight, but he's holding his own.
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First State Politics
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
How about this Hillary-loving question: Why not Obama?
In other words: please bash Obama to help Billary.
his argument (that Obama has no executive experience) applied to half the people on stage, too.
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First State Politics
which makes it all the smoother (attack the bad guys and get a subtle dig in at your rivals on the good side all in one), and the better from his perspective. like I said, a really, really good answer.
Obama has no experience and that's what drives his support. Emphasizing his experience, or lack of, will only contribute percentage points to him in the election.
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
John Paul Jones (letter to M. Le Ray de Chaumont,16 Nov.1778)
"I agree Gov. Romney, you are the candidate of change"
and I'm a Romney guy.
Very little moderating, a lot of back and forth... this is what a debate should be.
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Donate to the Rs in Close Senate Races through Slatecard
Romney you are change... this guy is an idiot... nothing in issue, just personal
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
Aren't these the same guys who complained about Romney's ads. Seems like double standards. Although, Romney never made a personal attack, he made comparisions.
A debate game, counting the number of times Romney whines about being picked on in this debate...
The count is now One.
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
That's up to about 24 times from Romney alone. He's rather predictable that way, for better or for worse.
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...because his policy positions are so terrible and in such opposition to fundamental conservative principles.
Must have included no negitive attacks shall be made on film, but are permited to be done live clause on it.
Romney 08
...so every candidate - except Fred - has a big incentive to tear him down. McCain has gotten personal on him a few times.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
...is also a major obstacle of John McCain and Fred Thompson. Neither one of them has ever run anything.
his way in this thing a little more.
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
John Paul Jones (letter to M. Le Ray de Chaumont,16 Nov.1778)
Its a little hard when you are ignored. But when he has spoken, he has hit home runs (for the most part).
...with his "candidate of change" quip.
his views are much closer to Obama than any other Republican
Thank you ABC. This is the beat debate we've had the whole season.
...than any debate since the Brit Hume/Chris Wallace hosted debate on FNC. It was too early to eliminate candidates at that point, though.
Tomorrow's FNC debate (it is tomorrow, right?) should prove to be as good as this one.
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
He's bought the Kool-aid. We knew that already.
I'm so glad Giuliani is coming right out and saying Nuclear first, also natural gas.
"We haven't licensed a nuclear power plant in 30 years."
Score a big one for Rudy.
Geez you must love high electric rates.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
And the U.S. has *very* large natural gas reserves. I guess McCain would like us to build windmills instead.
in town halls around NH. Here is a clip I took while riding on the bus:
I don't recall seeing many candidate discuss nuclear energy, but it came up at several townhalls. The video below is a bit bumpy but it does capture McCain's full response to a question about energy independence and nuclear power.
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like what is coming out of Johnny Mac's mouth? by that, of course, I mean carbon dioxide
I want to say that we should all be proud.
All of our candidates are talking about and debating IDEAS. You may not like all of them but these are genuine ideas. This as opposed to the Democrats who all just say "I will give you more and I hate Bush more than s/he does."
Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone. --Mitt Romney
That was just open ended frustration to everybody talking about what a problem global warming is.
Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone. --Mitt Romney
"they control the price and dictate policy" - Huck has no idea how oil markets work.
Also, John McCain takes a page out of Al Gore's book on global warming - no thanks.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
McCain is showing his well deserved reputation for a vicious and petty temper. Thompson, needs to be more assertive with his policy positions. Paul, sounds like an angry man who thinks that if he talks louder more people will listen. Romney is very defensive and on a couple occassions seemed rattled. Not a good night. Huckabee looks like a second tier candidate with nothing to offer other than the same worn out quips. Gulianni looks like he doesnt want to be their and doesnt have the energy to engage. Much to his displeasure there arn't enough questions whereby he can invoke 9/11. In a push Thompson won by a nose.
He was definitely the most mature candidate on stage and the most secure in his answers. Or maybe he just looked good next to John McCain.
Romney was more defensive than I would have liked. He needs to learn to take McCain's personal low-blows with more grace and learn to return fire with ease.
he tends to slouch, a habit a lot of very tall people get into, because they become self-conscious because they are so tall. At 6'5" he should tower over everyone else -- and that works to his advantage.
I would NOT turn my back on Hillary without a vest and secret service
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just like we used to do in our church. That's nice. Kind of like that Warner Brothers cartoon where Wile E. Coyote and the guard dog greet each other when they clock in for work.
called the other, "Sam," IIRC. I guess the cartoon characters themselves were actors portraying other personae.
It was interesting to see who was standing by who at the end of the debate. Rudy, Huckabee, and McCain where standing together. Romney and Thompson were talking to each other. Can we read anything into that?
but he's just not very dynamic. Romney was taking it from all sides, but I thought he defended himself alright.
Huckabee sucked. I hated McCain's line on global warming, and he sounded angry and petty at times. Giuliani did fine, but I thought he kinda got lost in the shuffle.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
plainly said he also considered when oil companies had losses and dismissed windfall profit taxes.
Though it would pain me quite a bit, if Fred can't win the nomination, perhaps a McCain/Thompson ticket. I would prefer McCain as a Sec of Def. though.
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and its my opinion and i respect that others have theirs, I think if this were not a popularity contest but a contest to determine the best person to be President it would clearly be Fred Thompson. he appears head and shoulders above the others. in fact, if this were a job interview for a CEO to run the company called the USA Fred Thompson would be the choice.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
-- John Adams
How about getting candidates from both sides together at an afterparty, let them get a little drunk and then let us hear what they all really think.
Is it me or did Fred look like he thought the Dems were diseased?
Fight On!
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
John Paul Jones (letter to M. Le Ray de Chaumont,16 Nov.1778)
Thompson was the perfect statesmen. I agree with most of the above. McCain finally showed his true self that I have seen personally.
Romney is a stuffed suit and Rudy looked tired.
Huck puts out plattitudes and offered no solution.
HWSNBN - Still a nut job.
Fred Wins.
Max
Max Power and Mark Smann
The Laughing Elephant
http://thelaughingelephant.blogspot.com
I don't know what debate you were watching. Fred didn't win, but he did well. Romney was the obvious winner.
Romney was BUSTED on the "mandate" comment.
Max Power and Mark Smann
The Laughing Elephant
http://thelaughingelephant.blogspot.com
...then McCain's global warming comments busted him - at least in the minds of conservatives.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
He won in the sense that there isn't anyone on that stage who could have survived the gang up as well as he did. He's tough. I like him more than I have in a long time after that.
Well if you think this is a "gngn up" that obviously you have never seen the WH Press Corps at the finest.
This was a cake walk. Sorry, Fred get's it, hand's down.
Max Power and Mark Smann
The Laughing Elephant
http://thelaughingelephant.blogspot.com
Sorry - Meant "Gang"
Max Power and Mark Smann
The Laughing Elephant
http://thelaughingelephant.blogspot.com
In a better world, Fred would be the frontrunner and Romney would be his VP, or the other way around. They're the two best people we have to choose from.
Well if he didn't change positions so freakin much and take democratic talking points then they wouldn't have been able to gang up on him. ("Change"--hey mitt let hillary, obama, and edwards take that...we want to beat them not be them). Mitt has been my #2 for a while now, but after tonight, I just don't know if I could vote for him. I disagree with rudy on social issues...I can deal with mccain b/c I trust him on national security (other than the border fence)...but huck and mitt just make me sick. Huck only talks in cliches and mitt is just a slick politician. I about fell out of my chair when they asked him to talk about his "principles"--he never did answer the question b/c he doesn't have any other than tell people what they want to hear and what my advisors believe will work.
But Mitt's vision of change is radically different than the Democrats. Do you want the Dubya status quo on everything, or do you want more conservative, free market capitalist change?
That Mitt will know how to speak in terms that will win independents in the general election vs. a Democratic opponant should be a plus, not a negative.
Mitt's comparison to Democrats begins and ends with the term "change."
Most gave decent answers on principles except Rudy. He listed goals, not principles. Huck gave a great answer on principles by reciting the principles our country was founded on. I'm not pulling for the guy. I'm a Hunter-Thompson man myself. But don't say he didn't give a good answer (although I think Thompson gave the deeper more meaningful answer) without mentioning how Rudy never answered it.
I'd give the highest marks to Fred. He was full of substance and commanding.
Romney was attacked personally and responded with substance and honor. I like him even more.
Rudy did very well, though he was made to struggle for relevance.
John is still a heroic patriot but was damaged by his pettiness. Tonight hurt him.
Huck's rhetoric seemed more vapid than it ever has in this forum. Tonight hurt him.
Paul got creamed by everybody. I found that most satisfying. Ha!
And I reply to you kowalski in order to offer you my high regards.
So in that sense, it was a good night for Romney. He reminded voters that he is good on the issues that McCain is atrocious on and that New Hampshire voters care most about - the economy and immigration - and solid on all the rest of the issues.
He also has experience actually running large and complex organizations and running them well. John McCain has never run anything.
This debate coupled with the Romney advertising campaign may well slay McCain in New Hampshire.
George Steph.... just said Fred had an excellent night. I agree, Fred won.
I just screamed in my living room....
(and I hate Snuffleugppagas)
Go Fred...
YEA!!!!!
Max
Max Power and Mark Smann
The Laughing Elephant
http://thelaughingelephant.blogspot.com
that whatever the MSM says about the debate may actually be more important than the debate itself. If they want to say Fred won, I'll take it. Go Snuffleluffapants.
Considering that most people in the country didn't see it, you are very likely right.
The "Third Worst Person in the World" and aiming higher.
By the way, the "billion dollars" for a 100 mpg car was the dumbest thing I heard all night. Huck is all flash, no substance.
guess what, there are already cars that can do 100 mpg. They just don't have any protection against accidents and can't carry anything.
There are already electric vehicles, too. Plus, who gives the billion dollars? Our taxes of course. Huckabee doesn't think before he speaks. He's polished because he's been preaching since age 12 but he is none too bright.
"Any Republican But the Huckster 2008"
Not exactly true...at least according to this article:
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html
I'm pretty sure we can do 100 mpg now, just have to ignore crash safety, passenger capacity, style, current tooling etc.
Seriously, I remember the little electric cars that were sold in the mid-1970's. They were light and cheap to operate but in addition to limited range, you really didn't want to take one onto a fast road.
It's one of Newt's ideas, in principle. Huck's just picking up whatever he can on the fly.
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First State Politics
when Fred then says, "That would be subject to the excess profits tax".
-tS
"When men fear work or fear righteous war, when women fear motherhood, they tremble on the brink of doom; and well it is that they should vanish from the earth." - Teddy Roosevelt
If you remember they recently offered a similar incentive for someone to build an aircraft that would take off, enter space and return. It was achieved fairly quickly. I will say the 100 mpg part wasn't that bright.
There is already a prize offered along these lines, although the amount is quite a bit lower than 1 billion...
Plenty of teams already signed up. I'm not particularly persuaded by Global Warming type arguments for this, but for oil independence and foreign policy reasons (as well as the fact that the exploration new technologies like this is darned cool) I'm pretty interested to see what will happen with it.
I think it's provately funded.
"For oil independence and foreign policy reasons (as well as the fact that the exploration new technologies like this is darned cool) I'm pretty interested to see what will happen with it."
Me too, how about the salt-water discovery? Besides looking so simple and cheap, it would be flat awesome.
Theres not one major car maker.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
...is probably not enough to attract any major automakers.
This doesn't really surprise me, since car companies want to sell cars, and innovation of this kind is really only in their insterest if it serves that end. A motiviating prize is probably more attractive to folks interested in innovation for its own sake.
I though Romney looked intelligent and well informed. He also showed his philosophical grasp of the issues, especially in responding to Paul.
McCain looked good but the cheap shots undermined him, big time.
Rudy and Huckabee looked one dimensional.
Thompson was great buy not very outspoken.
I think Romney just locked this thing up.
Paul, well, he has his moments.
"Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now". -White Goodman
now the real fun begins. Time to turn back to football...
“Anyone that wants the presidency so much that he'll spend two years organizing and campaigning for it is not to be trusted with the office.” – David Broder
Lets see a Horror show or a move about pleisiosaurus.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Guns don't kill people, abortions kill people.
Debate performance review.
Romney. Winner. Got hit by all sides and came out on top.
Fred. Did great when he had a chance.
Rudy. Did well, but immigration was a stumble.
McCain. Lost big time
Huckabee, was terrible.
The other guy. Just plain crazy.
had about going to McCain if he were to beat FDT are gone. I am not a Mitt guy but McCain was rude. Never allowing the man to finish a line and complaining how Mitt was always picking on him. John Mc can't stand to be roughed up and cry when it happens.
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
John Paul Jones (letter to M. Le Ray de Chaumont,16 Nov.1778)
I think your comment matches many of the conservative blog sites that I've visited in the last hour. Disregard those who cannot see beyond their bias.
Can't stand being roughed up and cries about it? Yeah, really just a totally reasonable comment about a war hero.
Bias. Go stuff your disregard, shill.
absentee
And yet you do. My history here at Redstate will speak for my intelligence, thank you. I don't need yet another newborn campaign-bot to approve. Go back to your shilling and bridge-burning, little one, you're out of your league with me.
absentee
"Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now". -White Goodman
Again, you're exposing your intelligence.
Are you upset about how your candidate performed in the debate? That's no excuse for making adolescent comments regarding an opinion here. I suggest you pull yourself together.
You use a juvenile ad hominem debate tactic as your primary argument. You're defending an over the top comment about Senator McCain out of your need to use that tactic to continue your shilling. You pull a huckabee I don't need to respond response. Yes indeed, someone is exposed here. I wonder who it could be?
I haven't made an adolescent comment yet, as you know. I've merely insulted you as a bot richly deserves to be insulted. Since you have no legitimate response, you are misdirecting. In short, you're an amateur. But please, post another comment sans viewpoint questioning my intelligence and bias. No no, don't trouble yourself with my post history, or look at other comments in this very thread expressing in detail what I thought about the debate, and certainly don't bother to re-examine the comment I was objecting to in the first place to see if it might have gone too far.
After all, what difference does truth make to a 3-week old campaign bot? Now let's have another comment about how you don't need to make a comment. That'll be so fun! Or you can get back to your bridge burning and shilling. It's up to you, bot.
absentee
My profession is that of an attorney. I never realized that I could be helpful in psychiatry and anger management. Must be all my professional experience. Now that you feel better, I hope you have a great evening.
Knows no bounds. I wonder how long you can continue the I don't need to comment routine while continuing to reply. I've seen similar trolls go 10 or more. And what else do you have to do? Yes yes, I know, bridge-burning, shilling, dance card all full. But I am sure you can make some time.
absentee
http://www.townhall.com/blog/g/1a9111af-7a0f-48e7-bd08-be5bad700ad0
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
And good catch by Townhall.
Of course, only one candidate gave us a surge stance. ;-)
No one of good character leaves behind a wasted life - John McCain
I got to watch this debate with my parents. we all agreed that this was by far the best debate so far, a wider audience than any cable debate also.
Going down the line:
McCain: He brought up some really good points but both me and my mother's jaws dropped at the whack on Romney as being the candidate of change. We both felt it was a cheap shot that dropped our estimation of McCain and probably lost him a number of votes. Grade B- or D+ Depending on your view of his attacks on Romney.
Thompson: It seems like he just wasn't on his game tonight, He wasn't assertive enough in the back and forth and he just couldn't seem to make a splash. Grade C
Paul: Probably one of his better debates. He needs to learn how to tune his message though. At least now the other candidates are at least mentioning the Consitution. Grade C+
Romney: He looked more... human this time. I liked him better even though you could tell he was flustered at times when he was piled on which does not bode well for grace under fire. One other thing, he just doesn't know how to shut up! Good grief, learn how to breathe man! Grade C
Huckabee: He came out relatively unscathed, which is bad news for the rest of the candidates because no effort was made to tear him down a bit. Grade: B
Guiliani: It was a good if unremarkable debate. However at this point, you need more than a good debate if you want to pull Huckabee back. Grade B-
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"The bass, the rock, the mic, the treble, I like my coffee black, just like my Metal." - MSI
"Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now". -White Goodman
and I touched on it in my assessment below. A little bit of jabbing on a rival can be good, but I think "candidate of change" was the line where he officially overdid it.
He's setting himself up for Romney to give him a "There you go again" moment. I'm starting to wonder if one will come up in the next debate, if he's acting the same way.
Is it me or does Hillary look constipated?
(or like she smells something....)
Just asking
Max Power and Mark Smann
The Laughing Elephant
http://thelaughingelephant.blogspot.com
Max Power and Mark Smann
The Laughing Elephant
http://thelaughingelephant.blogspot.com
she actually looks well put together tonight, perhaps better than I've seen her. the green shirt under black suit...suits her, hair looks good, makeup understated.
lol @ the oompah loompah comment below though. so wrong, but Bill does look like he's gotten ahold of John Kerry's orange makeup, especially front-on against the red background.
and Bill Richardson is an oompah loompah.
Everybody out there was going after Romney, and if he would have shut up and let the others do his dirty work, McCain might have looked good in all of this. Instead every opportunity he got he went with a personal attack.
That McCain temper is showing again. He looked petty and vindictive out there. A little bit, could be a benefit. He overplayed it and after a while it was looking creepy. Particularly when he was giggling over his own "candidate of change" comment while the rest of the room was still trying to figure out where he was coming from.
Romney wasn't bad, but he was having trouble keeping up with it all. Anybody would have.
Fred looked very good, but odd being so friendly to McCain and hostile to Romney. It sure doesn't help to disprove those rumors...
Huckabee looked a little like the dog who surprised himself and actually caught the car. He won Iowa, now what? I don't know if he'll be able to keep up for the distance.
Giuliani hardly registered for me. As much of a mess that was, I can't say that was a bad thing - it was probably because he was the only one talking issues rather than attacking or fending off constant attacks. Maybe letting the other guys bloody each other until 2/5 is a good strategy after all.
Ron Paul did his best to disprove his arguments that he belongs at tomorrow's debate.
My guy obviously won, and your guy obviously lost!
Who is my guy? Does it really matter?
All and all it was a great debate on ISSUES, with very little personal attack thrown in. A snide remark here, or a churlish comment there, does NOT an attack make! Heck, even HWOSNBN came out looking [nearly] sane!
Come on...
That's like saying you will fool around but then roll over and fall asleep.
Who is your guy?
Max
Max Power and Mark Smann
The Laughing Elephant
http://thelaughingelephant.blogspot.com
"Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now". -White Goodman
In response to the personal shots, Romney should have pointed out that everyone on that stage has changed positions on issues.
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First State Politics
He helped himself a lot by pointing out the personal nature of their attacks and his persistence to stick to the issues. Now the "Romney's a bully" line won't work.
"Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now". -White Goodman
and said something about everyone's life being a journey. That's how John Edwards has explained his vote for the Iraq invasion.
I don't think there was a clear winner though. Romney looked flustered at times, then quite impressive moments later. He'd be a good candidate if he could get it together.
Fred made everyone fall asleep as usual, and Rudy needs to say something NOT related to 9/11!!! Otherwise, they both did OK.
McCain is one angry SOB!! His hate for Romney shows a little too much. LOL
Huckabee was OK but invisible for large portions of the debate.
RP was a loon.
So is mine.
Romney was overly sensitive for someone who has spent the campaign bullying everybody.
that he helped himself immensely by pointing out the personal attacks and refocusing on the issues.
"Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now". -White Goodman
There's some suggestion that we were negligent in losing OBL after Tora Bora and that a little more diligence might have turned him up. Here in Georgia we have two recent missing person situations in the news, one in the mountains and one here in Athens inside the perimeter. We also remember that Steve Fossett hasn't been found in Nevada yet. Nobody should believe that finding someone hiding in caves in Afghanistan or Waziristan should be any easier.
The three fox news analysts all said Romney won the debate and McCain did the worst. Before giving his opinion that Romney looked the best, Dick Morris said he doesn't like Romney.
Romney looked like the class brain right after being given a wedgie by the jocks...I was waiting for him to call for Mommy every time he got zinged...
Apparently Mitt doesn't think the others have the right to criticize him...
"Life IS pain, Highness...anyone who says different is selling something..."
Romney is a very good looking candidate, with a charismatic personality, and his campaign looks like it could have been directed by Dick Morris.
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
John Paul Jones (letter to M. Le Ray de Chaumont,16 Nov.1778)
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
can't think of another reason there's nothing anywhere yet...
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
Did anyone catch what the Huckster said about policy changing every year?
This was a very good debate. I wish every single debate were like this.
I didn't watch all of it, because... well, you guys DO know there's a couple of Wild Card games on, right? :) (Watching Pitt getting crushed by Jax... entertaining)
But I did see quite a bit more than I had thought.
Overall, there was no clear winner.
I thought McCain lacked energy and got hurt badly on the exchange on illegal immigration. It's plain he doesn't want to talk about it, and got on the defensive quick. He's good on defense, but whoa on the global warming issue mate.
Romney got hurt a couple of times -- and that "let's not get personal" thing worked once when Huck landed the "Which one?" hit on him, but not the third time. Then again, he was composed and got most of his points out, so I'd say it was a wash for him. I think his supporters don't desert him, but I can't see anyone on the fence moving into his camp as a result.
Rudy did far, far better than I thought. He was crisp, strong, spoke very well, and made some very good points. But the sanctuary city thing just crushed him, IMHO. He got defensive awful quick and that whole "moral hardship" thing ain't gonna get a lot of play amongst primary voters, I'm thinking.
Huck did better than I expected. He landed some hits, sounded confident, sounded like a conservative, and didn't get on his class warfare theme.
I'm biased, of course, but trying to be as neutral as possible... Fred did the best out of anyone there. Thing is, his style is not to be like Romney and Rudy jumping in and cutting people off and trying to score points. That could be read as lethargy or lack of passion -- since that's the charge against him, that wasn't going to help. But when he did speak, he was confident, sounded like an adult, and was solid.
Best moment of the night for me. When the moderator asked Fred about the windfall tax, and he said straight up, "No." He wasn't going to get baited into that. I know few others would pick up on that, but that refusal to pander is Fred's strongest suit. It's why he won't be a good VP, and why he'd be a great President, and why if he does throw in the towel, I think he just goes back to being a private citizen. He will not compromise, and I think you have to put loyalty ahead of principles if you're not the top dog.
-TS
"When men fear work or fear righteous war, when women fear motherhood, they tremble on the brink of doom; and well it is that they should vanish from the earth." - Teddy Roosevelt
Ron Paul is a joke.
I can't believe he actually admitted that his campaign attracts the same people as Obama's campaign attracts.
Why is this guy even allowed to participate in REPUBLICAN debates?
-TS
"When men fear work or fear righteous war, when women fear motherhood, they tremble on the brink of doom; and well it is that they should vanish from the earth." - Teddy Roosevelt
What really stuck in my mind was talking about how we needed to change the model of healthcare ("It's upside down..."). He sounded like a govt overhaul unlike Romney's "We'll mess with it but only just enough" and Thompson's "Let the market do its job" approach. He didn't come off as a fiscon to me tonight.
I couldn't agree more. Thompson (my second choice) hit home runs on his take on healthcare and illegal immigration tonight. I thought Rudy's immigration (I've started tuning McCain out when he talks on immigration so I don't know what he said) statements and Huck's healthcare statements were low points.
It will change a single vote unless word gets out that Fred looked bored
McCain looked petty, mean, & childish, no question. His true character started to show. Romney got flustered at times but did as well as could be expected in that situation. Strongest performances: Romney, Thompson, & Guliani, probably in that order. Huckabee had one or two strong answers but was for the most part forgettable. Ron Paul just took up space & wasted time.
I see all three gaining. I have to say, I think of myself as socially conservative, but I can't help liking Rudy. He's got that something. Tonight, I thought Fred did too.
I know it's not popular but I'm with McCain and Giuliani on illegals. I believe in enforcement first, but I think with a secure border the best policy is a path to citizenship for those who are here. You can dishonestly call it amnesty if you like, but I won't play that game.
McCain is all around impressive. I can't help but like him again, despite his breaks with the party in the past. He's principled, it shows. He's smart, it shows. He loves his country and it damn well shows. He's a real patriot, a real hero, and a real leader. He'd make a great President.
For the first time I was really impressed with Mitt Romney. I know he didn't have the right answers all the time. But he came off human and, more importantly, sincere. Genuine. He may not go up in the polls, but I gotta say Mitt came up a LOT for me this debate. I could live with President Romney.
Frankly, I wouldn't be too disappointed with Rudy either. I know his winning the primary would be risky, a real test for the party. But speaking just with regard to the Presidency, I think he'd do an excellent job.
Even Huckabee managed to be engaging. When he drops the class warfare nonsense he is less intolerable and retch-inducing. He also seems like a person you would like in person. I still think he'd be a terrible president, however. Of course he'd have my vote and money if we won the nomination, as would any of them. We don't have to mention Paul because that's an absurd what if. He won't so it doesn't matter.
For me, the winner of the debate is tough to call. Something about Thompson is just so ... right. It would have been nice if the amount of talk-time had been more evenly distributed, but when he did get in edge-wise, it was great. He's smart, probably brilliant. He knows how to say things just right. I can just hear in my head the great speeches he could give as President. I can see him scaring the beejezus out of our enemies. He'd make the best President out of all them. (Even though I would make Rudy my fourth choice, I think he'd be the second best President, and although McCain would be my second choice vote, he'd make the third best President. Basically because of abortion).
I guess I'd say John McCain won the debate, inasmuch as there was a winner. But John, Rudy and Fred were all winners in my book, and I really thought Mitt did pretty OK too. I'd love it if it were down to those four.
If I were to line up my votes in order of who I'd vote for after this debate, I'd vote for Fred Thompson. Second choice John McCain. Third choice Mitt Romney, and Fourth choice Rudy Giuliani. I think the best President would be Fred. The next best Rudy, the next McCain, and the next Mitt. Any of those four will be a good President.
Guess this turned into one of those stream of consciousness replies. Carry on.
absentee
I thought some of the condescension and grumpiness by McCain against Romney did not do him any good. The 3rd guy who did himself some good in NH, but nowhere else is Paul. It all depends upon where the NH independents go,(D or R), on whether he gets more than he got in IA.
Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.
I thought the last jab was against Romney was one too many. He also has the very successful town hall going for him, though. I think his numbers are going up in the short term.
2 out of 3 is good though. I'm liking all the agreement here at Redstate tonight. It's good to see it after the disagreement overload of late.
absentee
While Mitt was being attacked he handled himself well. He was quick on his feet and was willing to fire back in substantial ways.
Ron Paul's relative success in fund raising has done a good thing and drawn debate back to Constitutional principles and has separated the "conservatives" from those that would deviate from the Goldwater Reagan lineage.
Fred was just plain funny, he was witty, and had some fire at times in him, he was also smooth though and seemed to finally put thought behind his statements.
In all honesty the only three conservatives left are Fred, Ron Paul, and Mitt (and I'm a little worried about Mitt).
Honestly, Fred won.
and challenging all four Democrat candidates on their support for pre-surge withdrawal.
he busted Mitt very well on that state insurance.....but on to the others;
Guiliani - excellent knowledge of the Islamic Caliphate and it's history...makes me feel comfortable with him as a President who would stay on offense.
McCain - He will go to his death to ensure amnesty to illegals...bitter man.
Huckabee - he is a little little slimy man.
Romney - I think he did fine except for the health insurance...showing a little of his liberal side.
Paul - straight up nutcase...everything is the war...he should be a Dem and I know his money is coming from the anti-war left...what person who would call themselves Republican would give this joker any cash....he is extreme.
Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion
I think McCain won simply because Mitt didn't hurt him much. Having said that, I think he should have kept that last barb in his pocket. It wasn't needed and it looked like piling on at that stage. Since he has the 'angry' reputation he needs to watch that sort of thing. It's going to be interesting to see what happens tomorrow, but I hope McCain's staff tells him to hold back on the quips unless Romney comes after him first.
I though Romney addressed the issues with more professionalism and executive clarity than anyone else. He did get a little flustered when he was getting it from all sides, but this is to be expected from a man who has no real aptitude for comic intrusion into an otherwise serious discussion.
McCain once again showed his pettiness and lack of Presidential
stability. John has so much to offer but he can't seem to control his emotions and bitterness.
If you argue his POW experience as a defense that should give us all even more concern about future emotional instability if he becomes President.
I believe Romney has the makings of a good President. He certainly has the executive background both in business and government. I don't know if he has had a true conversion on those issues on which he has switched, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. As I do most candidates who fall in that category. I say most, because I can't believe Huckabee. In my opinion he flat out lies when defending his current stand on immigration and taxes.
It wasn't a bad debate except I think Gibson let them go a little too long on occasion
Time for conservative leaders to step up and make some endorsements, in order to swat the fly Huckabee.
Gingrich, Duncan Hunter, talk show hosts, etc. need to exert their influence, before it's too late.
Rush has come just short of coming out completely against Huckabee. I wish he would go all the way and explicitly state it but if you have listened to him at all lately its pretty clear that he is not a fan.
...making it easy to spot). I was very clear when I said "use the contact form if you'd like to come back." Ignore that again, and your IP will be in permanent danger.
I can only speak in terms of my expectations.
Romney - This was by far his best debate. I have been very critical of him after other debates but I was literally cheering. I think he dominated the debate. He looked fantastic during the healthcare debate. He also got the most mic time and looked the most presidential. Even Dick Morris talked about what a great debate it was for him.
Huckabee - Horrible debate for him. This format hurt him because he was forced to do more than one-liners. I can't think of one memorable moment for him. He looked bad and yes I have admitted that he has been a far superior debater in the "soundbite" debates.
McCain - Bad debate. He got hammered on illegal immigration. He looked mean and petty with his attacks.
Thompson - His best debate by far. I think the format benefitted him. This was a more serious debate and he benefitted from that. He needs to learn to be ready to say more if he interrupts someone with a comment. When he does that and then says nothing it's really awkward.
Guiliani - Solid performance, nothing special, hurt on immigration.
Paul - Very good debate for him, solely because of the time he was given and he didn't sound loony even though what he was saying is definitely, insane.
* PRIESTCRAFT is thus defined: “The stratagem and frauds of priests; fraud or imposition in religious concerns. Management of selfish and ambitious priests to gain wealth and power, or to impose upon the credulity of others.”
Best line of the night!
At any rate, my feeling is that Paul would have been more comfortable with the debate that came -after- the Republican debate so he could have pandered more to the anti-war crowd. I wonder if his boxers have the Constitution on them the way he wraps himself to myopically in them?
Romney held his own but seemed pretty uncomfortable and, at times, desperate.
McCain, "my" senator, just doesn't do it for me and I'm ashamed that my state continues to elect this schmuck.
Huckabee looked like the Huckster that he is and I suspect his 15 minutes of fame are over.
Giuliani...well he was OK but he's just not the man for me.
Thompson sounded better tonight than he has in weeks. Honestly he's the only conservative up there, IMO.
I missed Hunter badly. I wonder if Fred would consider Hunter as a VP?
It's going to come down to VP choices to put someone over the top, I think. What do you all think the pair ups might be?
Outcast Web: http://www.outcastweb.com
PBA: http://www.patriotsborderalliance.com
You really want Allen on the ticket? Really? You like the idea of the Republicans slotting him as VP, especially if Obama gets the nod from the Democrats? I keep seeing reference on this site to how great the guy was/is, but I'm not buying.
"We have some real political differences among us, but we all share the same goals: clean air and water, injury free workplaces, safe transportation systems, to name a few of the good things that can come from regulation. " -Fred D. Thompson
Romney looked and was most Presidential tonight. McCain hurt himself with the constant negative attacks and jokes towards Romney.
There was a moment in the debate after Huckabee made a zing towards Romney, that Huckabee looked over the McCain and gave a little "wink" as to say "I'm working for ya buddy". Does anyone have that captured?
Bottom line, I think this debate will propel Romney in NH. All the independents in NH will be voting Obama, and that coupled with McCain looking like an old angry man will give NH to Romney I believe.
I just did a Google Video search on "republican debate" for today. Romney had 4 clips. There were a couple comments by others on Ron Paul. Nothing for any other candidate. I wish Fred had better organization, but I can't afford to give him any more money.
You can hit enter in the comment box and it counts as text, save ya the .
"Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now". -White Goodman
Charlie Gibson and ABC News deserve a lot of credit for running the best debate yet. He asked about real issues with good follow up. No non-issues like don't ask dont tell crap this time.
Hillary just scored a point against Barry talking about the difference between words and action, feelings and reality. of course that's a bit of a pot/kettle statement, but she's certainly better on that score than Barry with his tooth-rotting pabulum.
Holy Moly, how many Romney trolls does he have on this thread tonight? It seems like every third person here tonight is a Romney staffer or a Romney kool-aid drinker.
Haven't yet seen the debate. I thought the Dems would be first. the final hour is waiting for me on tape; I'm looking forward to it.
Thanks to all above for commenting for me--I know what to look for.
The "Third Worst Person in the World" and aiming higher.
Since I'm a Fred guy I obviously feel he won. This style of debate fits him. I'll just leave it at that and move on to the other candidates.
Rudy - He actually moved up my list after tonight. I thought he did well all things considered.
Mitt - He was under the gun a lot and my initial impression was that he really only had an okay to good night, but after thinking about it, I couldn't actually tell you how he could have handled it better, so I think it was a good night for him.
Huckabee - Bad night. I think this format hurt him. People evaluating him would have needed some substance on his answers and he didn't really provide it. The only one lower on my list now is the nut. I'm even to the point of listening to the nut to determine if Huck should actually be at the bottom of the list.
McCain - I agree with most others. He looked a little petty. I'd say he didn't go up or down much on this debate performance.
The nut - Well, I listened to him a little. He's still a nut so Huckabee stays off the bottom of the list.
I only watched half of the debate.
McCain went too far with his snide "candidate of change" remark. Huck may have gone too negative on Romney too. Both Fred and Rudy went after Romney too, but to a lesser extent. I wish the candidates would have shown more civility, and I can't help but wonder if this will backfire and help Romney.
Ron Paul did better than I would have personally hoped -- he has a chance to win 3rd in NH. I think Paul was a winner in this debate, for the simple reason that he didn't take part in beating up on Romney. Ironically, he won't be invited to the next debate. The other winners are Fred and Rudy.
At times he says things that make sense and then he says things that sound brain-dead. There must be many who find a him frustrating candidate.
Winners: Rudy, Fred & McPain
Losers: Ron Paul (he looked higher than a kite and didn't make much sense) & Mitt (he just looked like a well groomed a**hole)
Neither: Huckabee (maybe because I grew up in the same snake handling cult as Mike, he didn't do horribly, didn't do well, but he ain't going to win NH unless J.C. himself comes down & tells people to vote for him).
* PRIESTCRAFT is thus defined: “The stratagem and frauds of priests; fraud or imposition in religious concerns. Management of selfish and ambitious priests to gain wealth and power, or to impose upon the credulity of others.”
"We have some real political differences among us, but we all share the same goals: clean air and water, injury free workplaces, safe transportation systems, to name a few of the good things that can come from regulation. " -Fred D. Thompson
I'm just trying to decide if his sole purpose is to bash Romney and his supporters without backing anything up...
Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone. --Mitt Romney
as I noted in my private email, my apologies to all for the intemperate comments from a handle a few minutes old. This handle hasn't earned the "privilege" of extreme snarkiness yet.
Borrow Moe's blam stick for a minute. I know it's not your favorite weapon, but "it does clean up snow."
I meant what I said and I said what I meant. An elephant's faithful 100 percent.
Losers - Mitt (big time) and McCain (somewhat) and Rudy (a bit)
Winners - Fred
Treading water - Huck
I'm nervous because Stephanopaulus said Fred did very well. Don't think I like having George agree with me.
In case you missed it on hotair:
http://blogsforfredthompson.com/video-fred-takes-giuliani-and-mccain-imm...
www.fred08.com
Redneck Hippie
Fred did remarkably well. This was his best debate to date. He had a oouple of great zingers. I think the three tickets of NH are Fred, McPaine & Mit. Rudy, Ron & the Huckster battling for 4th & possibly Ron getting 4th (at least I hope).
gets much higher than 4th or 5th place. I don't think he had enough presence in the state, plus to do better he'd have to get pretty much every conservative vote. New Hampshire is definitely not cnservative territory, judging by the polls.
www.fred08.com
Redneck Hippie
"From a conservative viewpoint"
Unlike the rest of you people, that what you mean?
Good GRIEF I can't wait until the cheerleaders are done with Redstate.
absentee
www.fred08.com
Redneck Hippie
Tonight, Huckabee Accused Gov. Romney Of Not Supporting The Troop:
Huckabee Said He Supported The Surge Before Romney. “I supported the president in the war before you did. I supported the surge when you didn’t.” (ABC/WMUR, [Unverified Transcript], Republican Presidential Candidate Debate, Manchester, NH, 1/5/08)
One Year Ago, Gov. Huckabee Did Not Offer His Support For The Surge:
Gov. Huckabee, January 2007: “Well, I’m Not Sure That I Support The Troop Surge.” MSNBC’s NORAH O’DONNELL: “We have a Rudy Giuliani, who supports the president’s plan on Iraq. We have Governor Mitt Romney, who also supports a troop surge. How are you different from any of those candidates.” HUCKABEE: “Well, I’m not sure that I support the troop surge, if that surge has to come from our Guard and Reserve troops, which have really been overly stretched.” (MSNBC’s “Live,” 1/24/07)
right on the stage?
Listening to the Democrats talk about Iraq and fight over who can lose the war the fastest just scares me to death. These schmucks just do not understand what we are facing and the consequences of precipitous troop withdrawal.
Anyone who would think of voting for one of these four to punish our party for nominating the wrong guy is nuts. Turning the war on terror over to the left would result in Jimmy Carter-esque problems that we would still be trying to fix twenty eight years after they leave office. Also, anyone who would turn the Supreme Court over to the liberals as revenge against our party is just plain crazy.
So I avoided the internet before it.
Now that we are almost through, I would say this.
I think Fred had the best answers, but when he gets cut off, he does not fight back in enough. They are all hitting Romney hard, rightfully so.
If Fred was not in, because hard to hide my bias, I always like McCain in these debates. He's such a great American.
I'm not a Rudy fan, but I've never thought he looked bad in a debate, he was fine tonight, but it really seemed as if he is suddenly much less significant. Might just be through my eyes.
Huckabee had his weakest debate, he has to stop with the preachor attitude. I'm starting to feel talked down on.
Fred has hands down the best policies, he's stronger on health care than he showed tonight. He's great on eliminating waste on healthcare.
This is a good debate... everyone should be like this.
C'mon Fred, interupt back!
Romney sounds like a whiny little b word. He's getting absolutely clobbered, and Romney fans, I don't want that to happen. I wanted to see Huckabee get demolished tonight.
Fred calling Romney on the disagreement with Bush issue.
Holy Crap is Romney getting massacred. I'm waiting for Don Corleone to call the undertaker to do his favor.
When Romney commented in the last debate to Fred "takes one to know one" about him becoming a good actor, he officially lost me from every considering him unless I had to. If Romney's best comeback is "takes one to know one" he needs to go back where he belongs, the elementary school playground. We need real men running this country and should it not be Fred hands down the toughese SOB in this race, I pray its McCain. Rudy is 3rd, don't agree with much, but he's a tough fellow Italian Catholic.
Go Fred.
Volunteer for Fred- Email me- Donate below!
I set my dvd to record the debate as I was going to be gone tonight, and the stupid thing didn't do it. I guess I should be smarter than the equipment I'm operating, but wouldn't you think it would have warned me that the disc was unformatted when I put it in and it read it?!?!? Yea, me too. Crap.
This is the first debate on free TV and I thought I was going to get to watch one. Crap.
Does anyone know if ABC is going to replay it anytime?
I meant what I said and I said what I meant. An elephant's faithful 100 percent.
It was online live, so my best guess is that it will be available for streaming, but I'm not positive.
It is also sponsored by facebook, you should check it out to see if they have a stream.
i think almost every debate has been available somewhere online.
Volunteer for Fred- Email me- Donate below!
Is that a cable channel or is it a show on ABC the network?
I meant what I said and I said what I meant. An elephant's faithful 100 percent.
Sometimes old technology is the best technology.
VCR's forever!
The "Third Worst Person in the World" and aiming higher.
Call me that again and I may have to vote for Edwards.
The "Third Worst Person in the World" and aiming higher.
_The "Third Worst Person in the World" and aiming higher._
I have no idea how that happened. And in a post about "technology," too!
The "Third Worst Person in the World" and aiming higher.
I love the "amnesty" exchange between Fred and Rudy - the one that's all over the internet - "but you get to stay in the country... but you get to stay in the country..." PRICELESS.
Fred didn't engage in the petty back-and-forth stuff. He is just above it all. And he steered clear at the end when the DIMS came on stage. No love-fest for Fred.
Fred is the only conservative in my opinion. The others have less-than-conservative positions on illegal immigration, and Huck was showing his nanny state self tonight. Even McCain jumped into the nanny state trap when he was talking about the government worrying about obesity, etc.
McCain seemed too grumpy tonight. And I thought I'd faint when McCain said he wasn't for amnesty! Ummm... you were too!
Here's my ranking:
Fred (Thompson/Hunter '08)
Oooo, I really don't want to pick a second place, so I'll just say I'll rank the rest this way.
Mitt
McCain
Rudy
Ron Paul
Mark,
I think you are right on. Huckabee seemed a bit tired, unusually so. McCain did better than Romney. Is it just me, or do these guys not like Romney?
I think it was a strategic attack against Romney. I don't care because Fred's my guy and he didn't go after him relentlessly (just effectively.)
I thought all our candidates with exception of RP did well and I loved this debate. Charlie was great and very fair. I'm not sure I can call the winner. There is something unique about each of them. The comparison of this group of men to the dimwits is remarkable. I imagine my perfect candidate would have the business acume and looks of Romney, the war hero status of McCain, the warmth and humor of Huckabee, the steeliness of Rudy, and the intelligence of Fred.
I thought the debate was the most interesting and the most fun. McCain was awesome and I liked Fred Thompson too. Romney did not do well and it is clear that everyone on the stage can't stand him.
The source of pain is Romney's spending of millions and millions to tell stories in his ads that are untrue or half true. I can say that I for one wish all the attack ads were gone, but that probably won't happen until after Romney decides that investing in his campaign has a terrible ROI.
IMWITHMCCAIN
Anyone got Audio or Video feed links?
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !