Redstate

every week by callers to local talk radio. Needs to get national, because Illinois is a foregone conclusion.

If the Right to Life people don't include this in their campaign this fall, I'll be very shocked.

Remember, This is only the 2nd day of the general election.
Although many prolifers would never vote Democrat anyway, this kind of a stance counts a whole lot more because it is both extreme and is On The Record.

...to be socially conservative would be disgusted and turned off by this, IMO.

I think it could go a long way in bringing in a lot of culturally conservative Democrats.

“.....women and minorities hardest hit”

ponder the meaning of pro-choice in a totally different light. Due to the extremity of the stance, the prochoicers will be held to account for their position.

Of cource, we know weasel'ing will occur, but it won't work. A no vote is a no vote.

You can be all for RU-486 and even first-trimester abortion (which was supposedly the original Roe v. Wade decision) and still be appalled that PB/D&E is even an option.

lesterblog.blogspot.com

This was actual full birth abortion, aka infanticide. Obama thought it should be legal for a doctor to kill a baby after the baby is completely born. Even Barbara Boxer, Hillary Clinton, and Nancy Pelosi didn't go that far when the exact same bill came up in Congress. All the 2002 Senators and all but about 5 representatives (among them Cynthia McKinney and Jesse Jackson Jr.) agreed.

It is too bad Obama doesn't run for president of Belgium. This is already standard practice there, even without the mother's consent. Some lawmakers there are seeking to up the limit from 2 months to 18 years for the disabled.

if he hadn't been smeared off the ticket. I have to admit, probably to the dismay of many who post on this thread, that I also approved of his desire to modify the GOP unwavering Pro-Life plank and tolerate exceptions for abortion in the case of rape, incest, or risk to the mother's life.

I might vote for him in November, but I notice that he appears to have flip-flopped to appease religious voters. But has he really? He hasn't actually said "I now reject abortion without exception and accept the firm party position." Instead, he has kept suspiciously silent about it.

For the adamant Pro-Life posters here, particularly those who decry Obama's out-of-context remark (read more of the context here: http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/348569.aspx), does McCain's formerly moderate Pro-Life position inspire confidence?

and yes, that is a very beautiful picture.

Words have meaning, Pictures have meaning, and Votes have meaning. Obama is toast.

Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion

nt

women ROCK!!!!!

Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion

I was going to make the same point.

What we have here is a serendipitous failure by a national health service.

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

We zonies tend to thenk alike. Except when voting for a Governor.

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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
--Aristotle

but you can't be blamed for responding to the quote without its context. Read it here: http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/348569.aspx

What Obama is really talking about is teaching our children more than simplistic abstinance-only-solves-all-sex-problems. He suggests that balanced sex education will serve our nation, particularly our children better.

"Punishment" sounds like a poor choice of words to me, too, but Obama is not advocating anything sinister. Of course, we are free to believe what we want about statements used by our pet opinion shapers to persuade us. I am always on guard when I see material that appeals directly to my emotions while avoiding intellectual rigor. It might be helpful to consider a whole context and compare the meaning found there with the meaning found in the any particular snippet removed from it.

1. The quote is accurate and the context is accurate. When you consider children a "punishment" and cast one of the very few votes against partial birth abortion it makes your stance pretty damned clear.

2. Abstinence may be "simplistic" but it is foolproof. I'd also point out that not drinking before climbing behind the wheel is simplistic and lacks the panache of various Rube Goldberg devices to ensure you haven't been drinking, but it is the only effective way to stop drunk driving.

oh, and a third point. Looking at children as "punishment" for having sex rather than the logical outcome thereof permits all manner of things. What if they were "punished" with a child with a disability? Or "punished" with a child who was never going to make it into Yale?

"A man does what he can and endures what he must."

accurately transcribed, but it is devoid of the context in which it was used. After all, in the sentence immediately preceding the one under discussion, Obama states "I am going to teach [my daughters] first of all about values and morals." Of course, I hate to try and read your mind, but I'm guessing you will resort to cherry-picking (just like the poster) and deny (or ignore) Obama's truthfulness of one statement and "nail him to a cross" for the other.

Abstinence is an ideal solution, not a realistic one. You live in a dream world if you believe children and adults are going to abstain from sex except when they are fully prepared and committed to raising any and every baby that might result. You live in a dream world if you think you can ever convince people to follow such a plan. However, you are correct: if no one had sex, there wouldn't be any babies conceived (well, at least not the natural way).

Obama, along with most pragmatic folks, realize that unwanted pregnancies (and STDs, if you read Obama's remarks) can be minimized, and minimized only through more comprehensive education than abstinence-only.

Finally, I doubt that Obama generally thinks of babies as "punishment" for having sex. Like most fathers who have participated conceiving and raising children, I am certain that Obama experiences great joy from his daughters.

No doubt, there are millions of exceptions. There are absent and deadbeat fathers, for instance, who leave unwilling, unprepared, irresponsible, unloving mothers to raise unwanted children. For these folks, I imagine that Obama's remark is fairly accurate; that is, these parents consider their children a "burden", a "punishment", or an "unfair price to pay" for having a little sex. Just speculating here, but maybe they weren't taught much about various methods of contraception.

"Be intolerant. Because some things are just stupid"
- Ryan Dobson

Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion

True to the point that I shouldnt have been drinking when reading it.

to do with what Obama said, rather than what you feel, it might be interesting to more people than you.

1. The quote is accurately transcribed.

2. The context is pretty clear.

3. Abstinence is the only solution that works. While those critiquing abstinence only education programs make a big deal of the fact that they are no more effective than the better-boffery programs they lose sight of the fact that they are no less effective, either, and at least you are doing the right thing.

4. I don't know what Obama "generally" thinks of babies. What I do know is that he doesn't object to their brains being sucked out and he does think at least some of them are punishment (see points 1 and 2).

"A man does what he can and endures what he must."

precisely about what Obama said, and how some misconstrue what he meant. The emotionally charged photograph juxtaposed with a direct quote lifted from one of his short answers at a town-hall meeting and directly attributed to him should clear up any confusion. Besides that, our discussion is mostly a matter of your opinion and mine, and a few others contributing only quips, chuckles, and non-sequitors.

Your points:

1. Redundant. I conceded it to you already.

2. The context of Obama's remark appearing under the photograph is absent. You have to do a little research to find it. I have already done so, and provided it in earlier replies. Since you are unwilling to address some of the other remarks Obama made in the same paragraph (the context), perhaps you missed it: http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/348569.aspx

3. You know that "Abstinence is the only solution that works", because why?? Show your facts, or do you just rely on your imagination and wishful thinking? Besides, you destroy your own assertion when you next claim that "[abstinence] is no less effective, either." How can abstinence-only education be "the only program that works", when you admit that is is only just as effective as others?

4. Are you are referring to the dilation and extraction procedure, also known in political discussions as "partial-birth abortion"? Vocal Pro-life opponents make it sound like an especially gruesome procedure, likening doctors who perform it with Nazi's (well, they usually label all such doctors "Nazi's"). Of course, critics conveniently ignore some facts, such as the doctor's Hippocratic Oath, and thus doctors' reliance upon using the most appropriate procedure for the circumstances. By voting to block political ban on the procedure, Obama merely asserts that "doctors and their patients should decide what procedures are best", not the government deciding for them.

If you can't figure out that Obama generally values life as much as the next guy, then you are limiting your own intellect. (Click and read the link in point 2.)

I don't have much to say about #s 1 and 2, but

3. Abstinence is the only foolproof method of birth control - so much so that it even works for liberals. The fact that teens and adults refuse to keep their pants up/skirts down is their own problem, and one that they have to deal with on their own. It merely indicates a lack of self-control and an abdication of personal responsibility to do otherwise.

4. The Hippocratic Oath is dead. Most doctors don't take it anymore, so the first part of #4 is worthless. As for partial-birth abortion or D&E if you prefer (it does make it sound better, doesn't it), the procedure is never used for life-saving reasons. There is no legitimate purpose whatsoever for its existence.

Silly me. Is that you Jacques Derrida?

Feddie our own Redstate contributor aka the proprietor of the fine establishment they call "Southern Appeal."

Click on contact and let him know of our interest.

Iustum et tenacem propositi virum non civium ardor prava iubentium, non vultus instantis tyranni mente quatit solida.
-Quintus Horatius Flaccus

I don't think I could sell it though because the picture of the baby isn't mine. I just found it on the "Internets." And even if I could, I have no interest in making a profit off the image.

Tell you what. I'll ask one of my IP buddies what he thinks and whether it is permissible to sell the image as modified. If so, then perhaps we can do something over at the RedState shop, and donate all of the profits to a pro-life organization.

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The blogger formerly known as "Alexham"

If this is possible to get then I like your idea.

The greatest single cause of Atheism today is Christians who profess Jesus with their lips & then go and deny him by their lifestyle. That's what an unbelieving world simply finds..unbelievable -Brennan Manning

Obama thinks he can nuance his way out of his voting record, but the people who support life will not be fooled. No way.

The free exchange of ideas inevitably yields both heat and light.