Not with a bang, but a whimper
A campaign haunted by the hollow words "What might have been....?"
By Jeff Emanuel Posted in 2008 | Fred Thompson | Presidential Primary | Republicans — Comments (387) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
So long, Fred; we hardly even knew ye.
Well, that's not entirely accurate -- we knew you far better than we've known many a politician who's thrown his hat in the Presidential ring in years past (or even this year; see "Hunter, Duncan" or "Gravel, Mike" for examples).
We knew you well enough that, when it seemed that the Republican field needed a White Knight to ride in on a shiny steed and save it (and us) from itself, we didn't call on Newt Gingrich or Jeb Bush; we called on you.
We supported you through the flirtations with running for office. At first, it was understandable. After all, you're a family man, with young children and a comfortable day job, and it would have been far too much to ask for you to simply shelve all of that for the high-stress life of the Presidential candidate without giving the matter a second thought. Whatever your decision, though, you knew that rank-and-file Republicans the country over were calling out your name, and were ready to pledge their support to you should you agree to throw your hat into the ring for the nation's highest office.
We waited with bated breath, as expected announcement date after expected announcement date passed by, with little or no action on your part. As the summer wore on, and gave itself over to autumn, though, the game became a bit less enjoyable for the rest of us.
Like the townspeople who tired of hearing the young sheepherder cry "Wolf!" over and over again when there was no such threat to his flock, those who had supported you wholeheartedly at the beginning of this process began to waver in their commitment, and the field of "FredHeads," as so many of those enthusiastic supporters called themselves, began to dwindle.
Read on.
During the run-up to your candidacy, you said all of the right things. Appearing on ABC Radio, on the Sunday shows, and at speaking engagements, you spoke to the parts of us on the conservative end of the spectrum that weren't being spoken to by the other candidates. Immigration reform, strength in prosecuting the war on terror, a return to Federalism -- all issues for which you were the most articulate, and (it appeared) most viable, spokesman.
Finally, in September, you made the announcement that so many had been dying to hear in April, in May, even in July. At that point, though, it was too late for any but the most dynamic of campaigners to make up the ground lost to the rest of the field in this longest primary election in my memory.
You still had a chance, though. You continued to say so many of the right things that, had you been able to build and manage a campaign staff that was worthy of the ideas of which you spoke, you still could have risen through the ranks to share frontrunner status. The endorsements and stamps of approval you received speak to the power of those ideas. The National Right to Life; Human Events; Rush Limbaugh; even Pejman Yousefzadeh, this site's most eloquent classical liberal -- all saw what you had to offer in the realm of policy and ideas, and either selected you as their representative in this race, or at least bade the Republican Party keep you in their minds as the conservative alternative to the greatly flawed field we have found ourselves, for better or worse, stuck with this election cycle.
Unfortunately, the campaign itself never came together. Despite the fact that it was built around the people's chosen White Knight candidate, and around the most solid slate of conservative ideas in the race, the Fred Thompson for President campaign suffered from being one of the most lackluster, disorganized, and uninspired electoral efforts that I can remember. For whatever reason, you as the candidate never quite took the ownership of your own campaign that was necessary to make it successful -- and, as a result, it foundered before ever really getting out of the harbor.
It is not with glee that I bid adieu to the campaign that Fred Thompson for President. While your departure will not have a large effect on who succeeds in this race from this point on, due to the disappointingly low number of overall supporters you ended up with, losing you from this race means that, once again, we have no option who speaks to the entirety of our conservative selves. Though you weren't the perfect all-things-to-all-people candidate (take the disappointment on the part of some SoCons with your support for Federalism over a Human Life Amendment as one example, or your poor numbers with female voters as another), you remained somebody that the entirety of the Big Red Tent could have comfortably supported as our party's nominee.
Unfortunately, in order to become that nominee, one must win the primary election -- and, whether it was because you got some bad campaign advice, because you weren't experienced enough at running for office, or simply because you really didn't want the job and care if you got elected or not, you never even put up a real fight in the primary.
Though South Carolina may not even be the official final nail in the coffin of your candidacy, for those who took the realistic view -- unencumbered by their support of your bid for office -- the proverbial handwriting had long since been on the wall. After the third-place Iowa finish, there still may have been hope, even though your assured place among the frontrunners had been taken by another out-of-nowhere candidate, Mike Huckabee. However, after the abysmal performances in New Hampshire and Wyoming -- not to mention Michigan and, today, Nevada -- it became abundantly clear that any talk of Fred Thompson, Republican Nominee for President was, at best, a non-starter.
So, as the results come back in South Carolina, with exit polls showing it a McCain-Huckabee race with Thompson a nonfactor, it seems to be as good a time as any to thank you profusely for your time and for your ideas, to wish you luck in all of your future endeavors, and to turn out the lights once and for all on the Fred Thompson for President experiment.
We all wish that the end had been scripted differently, and had taken place much later than this. In the end, though, your campaign seems best described not by a phrase, but by a question: "What if?"
What if you had entered the race in the spring or early summer, when your popularity and support were at their highest? What if you had picked a competent campaign staff at the beginning of the race -- and stuck with it throughout? What if you had really taken ownership of that campaign, and executed it more effectively? What if you had done what we were all dying to see after seven years of President Bush and the "new tone," and refused to let the media define you?
What if you had acted like you actually wanted the job?
As the Thompson campaign finishes its several months of winding down, "what might have been" is a compelling -- but ultimately futile -- game to play.
Perhaps, in the end, the answer is as simple as "it just wasn't meant to be." We'll never know.
So, Fred Dalton Thompson, as you ride slowly and quietly off into the sunset, not a hollow man but -- most unfortunately -- the owner of one of the most hollow campaigns that I can recall, the words of T.S. Eliot come to mind:
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
So long, Fred; we hardly even knew ye.
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Not with a bang, but a whimper 387 Comments (0 topical, 387 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
A picture of Fred with a better haircut ?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
This is the first time I've seen a true lack of class from you. It is terribly unforutnate.
I've found FDT the most appealing ideas candidate since he first flirted with entering the race last Spring, and have no personal animus toward him whatsoever.
I am committed to being as realistic as possible, and this is intended to be as sincerely, politely, and respectfully realistic as possible.
I am sorry that it has come across to you -- and I'm sure you're not the only one -- as "classless."
It was hard to take, but that is due to the disappointment of the day---a bitter disappointment in many ways and levels.
REPORT on Fox Fred going to see his mother Sunday. could he be at the end
I'd have preferred the Dandy Don Meridith version, couldn't find it, but this one's not bad.
Sorry Fred Heads, the song says it all.
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
The fact that Fred lost or the fact that some people here are glad about it.
If McCain or Huckabee get the nomination, the party will no longer represent my values to any meaningful degree, and I will not support it.
each of their candidates has huge weaknesses -- and they all know it. That is why they insult Fred, because they feared him the most.
Before you would start to fear him. As things stand he was perfect for the single issue ideologues that wanted the general/more than one issue conservatives split.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I never insulted Fred. I'm just trying to beat Hillary Clinton. I'm trying to find the strongest most viable conservative candidate to do that. Just becasue Fred ran a poor campaign doesn't mean that other candidates do not like federalism. That is silly.
Yes, I'm hardened, cynical, thick-skinned and I like too laugh. I am a New England country boy turned Boston lwayer. I live, eat and breath Boston liberals, so I have to laugh and have a thick skin.
The whole Fred thing became an unhealthy diversion after a while. Jeff's post says it all - the writing's been on the wall for some time. Not every state's primary was a joke. The magic was a myth. He was a poor candidate, even if he was a good conservative. A lot of good conservatives make lousy politicians.
Running a campaign is the first real test of executive decision making and leader ship. If you can't do that, it's difficult to assume you would make a good president. Senators don't run things. You can be a good Seantor and a lousy executive.
It's not just about pondering conservative principles. It's about running things and leadership. Politics is raw blood sport. It's they type of arena where machines like the Clintonistas chew up and spit out their opponents. Guys like Romney may not be warm and cuddley, but they are aough effective politicians. Fred is not.
Like I said, I just want to get back on track and find the best way to beat Hillary. Propping up the failed Thompson campaign isn't going to do that.
Fred Thompson. Good conservative. Good guy. Bad politician. Bad executive. End of story. Now lets move on and elect someone who can run a good conservative campaign and is not afraid to punch the Clinton machine in the teeth.
Better be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security. --Edmund Burke
Blog: TMYN
"The whole Fred thing became an unhealthy diversion after a while. Jeff's post says it all - the writing's been on the wall for some time. "
Yes. We have a race now down to Romney, Huckabee, and McCain (and someone please put the Rudy campaign out of its misery as well????).
"Running a campaign is the first real test of executive decision making and leader ship. If you can't do that, it's difficult to assume you would make a good president."
Absolutely. Thompson was *leading* in national polls *before* he even announced. To blow a lead like that, with a candidate who had far fewer warts than every other top candidate, shows how badly the campaign was handled.
Huck didn't win in his strongest state. If he doesn't win in SC he doesn't win anywhere. Rudy is still around until FL, but unless he pulls off something special he's toast too.
It is coming down to McCain or Romney, and at his point in time I think McCain has the edge. But I support Mitt because I think he's the best choice.
"Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now". -White Goodman
I think you just made another good point. McCain is a lousy undependable GOP senator; and he will not make a good EXECUTIVE in the White House. He has made some BAD DECISIONS the past 2 years and I don't think he would be elected because he is TOO OLD, like good ole boy BOB DOLE in 1996! So if Fred goes away, in my book it is Rudy in Florida and if Rudy goes away, it is Romney. Why Romney? Well he seems sincerely trying to court the Reagan voters of 1980s; and he seems honestly ready to be the Chief Executive in the White House. But if he gets to Georgia, I'm going for Rudy. If not then it is Mitt. Perhaps Fred can be the head of the RNC and help the GOP get some House seats and keep at least 40 seats in the Senate.
Me, I have mixed feelings. I support Romney, but thought Fred would be a good second choice. But now it looks like I loose my #2 choice. On the other hand, I believe it takes a lot of his votes from Romney, so I think it that way it helps Romney. On the other hand, if he didn't quit and he goes to Georgia and takes the fight to Huckabee, then I will be rooting him on.
I will not vote for McCain or Huck. Period.
You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.
I can't vote for McCain because I DON'T TRUST HIM, based on his past record in the Senate. I see Huck and I see another JIMMY CARTER, and I can't live through that again!
In an interview with Frank Pastore on FM 99.5 KKLA, Richard Land said that it is unfair to equate Mike Huckabee with Jimmy Carter. Jimmy is theologically liberal while Mike Huckabee is very conservative in his theology.
Carter would never denounce the jihadists. Huck calls them evil and Huck supported the Iraq War and still does. Its not close.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
www.fred08.com
I'm so tired of hearing this one. You don't have a good reason. Note: That wasn't a question.
absentee
Next we will have a whole round of how its principled to cut off your nose so nobody notices your acne.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Are generally considered some of natures warning signs.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
RedState! Seems that too many here are against actual conservatives.
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
Fredheads aren't ready for this type of commentary. They are being a little hypersensitive. I called fredheads deadheads and would of thought that I insulted his mother.
Winston Churchill's model -- "In victory, magnanimity."
Or the old Latin tag -- "de mortuus nil nisi bonum", i.e., don't speak ill of the dead. Its classless and it loses you friends.
Fred was one fly too many in the ointment. Toss in the added idiocy of Ron Paul and these primaries have been a disaster.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Romney at 19 Huck at 23 COULD Romney come in 2nd
Its Possible, but doubtfull. I think the northern areas where Huck is strong may have not come in yet. But, one can still hold out hope.
I am truly saddend that I will most likely not be able to vote for my candidate of choice. He may still be on the ballot here in MO, but if he is completely discounted I will now have to restart my journey of deciding who my candidate is.
Fred is hands down the most substantive candidates on either side. He has true conservative instincts, unlike others in our field who espouse conservatives principles, but don't necessarily have the philosophical grounding.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
I'll agree with you there. Fred has the foundation down.
I'll disagree with him on tort reform. And I'll disagree with him that marriage should be a state's rights issue. But that's about it.
"Don't ever be afraid to see what you see." ~Ronald Reagan
100% agreed. That's why I eventually switched to Fred. Oh, well. Guess I'm back to seeing who checks off my issues best.
I would say in fact Ron Paul is the most consistant conservative that has lived and voted in a totally conservative way over decades of being in office.
In fact Ron Paul is actually slightly more conservative than Thompson.
The only difference is Ron Paul was anti-war. You might disagree with his anti-war stance, but I will at least say this Paul has some actual philosophical reasons behind his anti-war stance, not like the Dems who are clueless and chant stuff like "Bush lied, people died"... Ron Paul is anti-war because he believes that his conservative strict-constitutional principles say we should not be in Iraq[screeeeeech...
-and now back to your regularly scheduled pandemonium. -LHW]
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
be seen as driving events and ensure that their preferred narrative be the conventional wisdom, all above real journalistic values including the reporting of useful real news and commentary.
Redstate obviously desires now to be part of the MSM instead of the higher quality alternative media is was when I joined.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
www.fred08.com
...to say this to: there's no animus toward FDT here. I was one of the guys with the "Draft Fred" sticker on at the Georgia GOP convention last May.
Believe me, I took no pleasure in writing this.
and the tone seems a bit mocking, but I admit I haven't read it all. That it appears at this time was enough to sadden me.
Especially from an Iraq imbed with the experience of filing substantial pieces not driven by the puny msm competition to be first about non-fires that need to be responded to.
This zeal to tell candidates that they ought get out of the race is not attractive. I have never called for a candidate to get out. I am clueless as to the desire to do so.
But, as usual, what I read was well written Jeff, and the image, A1.
congrats
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
www.fred08.com
can't forever have their votes split without losing power in the primary selection process.
I really wanted Fred to win. While not perfect, Fred's platform is by far the best. IMO, he's the only major Republican candidate who can't be called a moderate.
But it takes more to win than maturity and a good platform. Granted, this should have more appeal to Americans than it does, but it's not the people who are to blame when a politican fails. And let's be frank: Two distant third place finishes are failure.
Time to move on, and focus on the best conservative remaining.
a day or 2 later would have been much more seemly.
I might be a Mitten or I might not, but I will value RedState a lot less either way.
You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.
A lot of us are probably going to be very disappointed, perhaps even bitter tonight.
Even if the Fred Thompson haters are already classless about it, those of us (and that includes Jeff) who supported him at one time or another can have some dignity about it.
I think he is the one candidate who almost all of us like. He is #1 or #2 to almost everyone on this site (including me). He is the best true conservative.
I hope he does not drop out. I hope he still has some fight in him for Florida and for Super Tuesday.
The reason I want him to at least remain visible is because I think he would win a brokered convention for the reasons stated in my first paragraph.
Every other candidate has many vocal haters on this site. I think Fred Thompson is the one who does not.
"Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now". -White Goodman
While I'd love to see a Romney/Thompson ticket, I just wish Fred would leave now. He's taking the conservative vote from Romney.
I care about the border and national sovereignty. Thus, I want McCain gone. Romney's the guy who can get that done.
Fred hanging around is just working on McCain's behalf.
"Don't ever be afraid to see what you see." ~Ronald Reagan
I think Fred can remain visible and viable for a brokered convention without staying in the race. In fact, I think he'd probably do better outside the race.
It's been a brutal primary season already. The Huckabee folks hate Giuliani. The Romney backers can't stand McCain. No one can stomach he who cannot be named. If Fred hadn't been so apathetic, he might have engendered a little more animus. But he got a little bit o' hate now and then.
On the other hand, there's nothing but love for Duncan Hunter. Oh wait a minute he just dropped out.
"Be intolerant. Because some things are just stupid"
- Ryan Dobson
I'm afraid I'm too cynical and pretty much expected this to happen. Fred tried to run a principled campaign against people who don't care how low they sink to get the nomination.
No matter what, I will not vote for McCain or Huckabee.
I've always said if Fred grew back the chops and brought out the pipe back in the summer, the other candidates would have dropped out and endorsed him immediately.
Fred would've been miserable to run against in the general. He might've won because whenever he says anything -- even if you disagreed, and even if it was wrong -- he makes the other side look silly. It's like a magic trick. He was unflappable and clear. Against Obama he would've seemed "experienced" by being old and "serious," against Hillary he would have benefited from being someone who wasn't ambitious to a scary fault.
When you look at the wishy-washy nature of the rest of the Republican candidates, and the degree to which Fred Thompson made them look petty and small, it's amazing he didn't catch on merely by making the other candidates whimper their chances away. Especially Romney, who has all the markings -- personal and political -- of being the GOP's very own John Kerry.
So now that Fred's almost certainly out, I can safely say that Republicans in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, Michigan, Wyoming, and South Carolina really screwed up. Hope for McCain/Thompson, that's your best chance.
How are you going to win in the general ??
Plus he might yet be the nominee, if we have a brokered convention.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Don't say things like this:
Plus he might yet be the nominee, if we have a brokered convention
I was just giving in to total despair.
He is positively antagonistic to the media and doesn't have Reagan's ability to have them think they are winning while they are going down in flames.
The teflon appellation is something every conservative needs. You get it not because you are corrupt and nothing sticks, but because the media is trying to throw dreck at you and its sliding off.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I don't think Republicans dislike or Fred Thompson, or wouldn't vote for him. There wasn't an anti-Fred vote out there, nor can I imagine one. What issue would it be based around? Republicans just voted for someone else because of single issues, it seems. Immigration. Taxes/ Iraq. Abortion. Etc. But when you look at why people voted for Huckabee, McCain, or Romney, based on those issues it's hard not to see the reasons they voted for those candidates mirrored in Fred's policies, too.
He was like a Mr. Potato Head of policies and positions people liked in other candidates, in a shell of impermeable seriousness. So how would he have lost the Republican vote in the general? However, it's all academic. The point is: too bad for Republicans.
As you said, There wasn't any anti-Fred vote, I think most people just got attached to other candidates before Fred got in and were unwilling to change. It really did become a story of too little too late.
I think its classless the way people are talking about how terrible Fred is now. But its also classless and bitter for Fred supporters to get angry at the voters because Fred didn't win. There's been some real flaws in his campaign and some bad luck that aren't the voters' fault. Lets not indulge in sour grapes.
is not an outrageous reguest.
We are ripe for appeals from other candidates, except that most supporters seem to prefer spiking footballs at the moment.
As a voter, I count too.
Well, it's not sour grapes with me. I'm not a Republican, I don't support any of the Republican candidates. I'm glad Fred's out because it would've been difficult to run against him. Assuming he had gotten a bit better at campaigning, that is.
decides when we must commence being sad about Fred.
At this hour, the event to be sad about is this rubbing salt in wounds blog.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
www.fred08.com
I signed up here to read conservative viewpoints and people are glad Thompson is out of the race?!?! The only Conservative running was Thompson, and you guys are happy that a moderate Dem like McCain will get the nomination?
I've voted straight Republican since 84, but will gladly sit this one out if McCain is the nominee.
It is a conservative site, but I think we're also realists here. Taking a look at Fred Thompson's chances after tonight, things look bleak. I disagree with Jeff on foreign policy stuff, but he's right on the money here. And I disagree with the earlier posts. He's not being anti FDT, just realistic about it.
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I was brought up to believe that how I saw myself was more important than how others saw me. (Anwar al-Sadat, President of Egypt, 1970-1981)
diaries, here -- three months, two months and one month ago. So, please don't come in here and take a dump on the carpet after 13 minutes.
If you intend to stay -- then contribute. Otherwise -- door -- a** -- you know the rest.
... that's fine. Well, not exactly fine since McCain would be a far better President than Hillary Clinton, but better than sitting the whole thing out.
This is land of McCain shilling, Fred can't win it, Mitt's too perfect, and all comments about Ron Paul are banned.
There is more McCain support here than I've seen on any conservative website. That much is for sure.
"Don't ever be afraid to see what you see." ~Ronald Reagan
It's depressing to think of what might have been ...
the most conservative state in the union!?!?!?! Yet all of those votes for candidate [X] instead of candidate Thompson.
Folks, I vaguely remember the 70s--but I think we are about to try version 2.0.
Skyrocketing oil prices
Enemy that 50% of the country wants to appease
Fundamental changes to the world economy
RHINO Republicans running the show
INO Republicans were known as Rockefeller Republicans. In Michigan, big government Republicans are often called Millikan Republicans, after a former Governor of the State, Bill Millikan.
It is what it is and no amount of depression is going to change that. Sometimes you have to go through the low times to appreciate the good times. We grew complacent and wallowed in that complacency.
was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Well, it ain't over now!
Where's he going to get a majority? He's fluctuated between the bottom and the middle of the pack, while three (!) other candidates have managed to climb to the top at least once.
Just as Romney was supposed to do well in Iowa and New Hampshire, South Carolina was supposed to be the opening roar for Fred Thompson.
Instead, we get a whimper.
Jeff, unless you are a mindless member of the MSM, it's a wee bit premature for post-mortems.
Fred Thompson has been campaigning his heart out. Rush Limbaugh has been on a daily campaign to thwart Huckabee and McCain. And yet -- which two candidates seem to be duking it out for the top spot in S.C.?
I can appreciate your disappointment, but man up, dude. :)
If anything, the feel was that it was hard for some people to take Thompson as a serious candidate.
However, the wins by Huckabee and McCain (in addition to Romney's pandering win in Michigan) scare me more than anything, and seem to show an embracing by Republicans of economic populism, destined to give us all the vitality of France. And people don't seem to want to recognize that.
That being said, I'm not the one to speak for the Republican Party, having effectively "left" the party after 2004 (I consider myself a libertarian-leaning independent, and a self-described anarcho-capitalist). I am, however, disgusted by the options I'm being presented from the GOP about sticking our economic heads in the sand, and outraged at the Democrats for just wanting to give up. What I saw in Fred was a willingness to let America fight it out on the world stage, and he was, to many, the most electable libertarian-leaning candidate. But after many states where he fell behind an unelectable sham libertarian in the polls, it did become hard to convince oneself that Thompson still had a chance. Sure, he did well in the debates... just nobody even saw them except for the wonks.
What this is is not an indictment of conservatism, but rather the level of engagement of the American public in the political process.
"No matter how much lipstick you put on the taxation pig, it's still a pig... and it's currently snout-down in your wallet." - Michael Fisk
How can any of you support McCain when the guy has taken every opportunity to use the MSM to spit on Conservatives and Republicans?
What does it even mean now to be a Republican if this is the kind of guy who represents us?
Some of us love McCain and have been strong GOP's for a very long time. You don't always get your guy - I had to put up with W - now it the time for those of us who wanted McCain.
McCain would fit very nicely in the Democrat Party. So would Huckabee. Personally I believe in having two distinct parties in the country. Its best when they are in heated opposition, not in one accord. McCain and Huckabee represent the idea of blending the two parties to the point they nearly agree with eachother. Philosophically I can take a Clinton type in office every now and then as a Democrat but to have one in as a Republican removes all hope for bringing the country to Conservative principles.
and W are different in what sense? Both pushed that stupid amnesty bill that the majority of the public did not want. Both are buying into the global warming crap. One thing I can say is that Bush wanted more conservative judges than McCain - gang of 14. So not really sure exactly what you are missing by going to McCain from Bush...
In fact I think he's made great mistakes in terms of immigration and government spending. My point is that the parties should be very distinct from eachother. Bush v. Kerry and Bush v. Gore were fairly distinctive races. McCain v. Clinton, not so much, in fact those two are VERY much alike. Huckabee v Obama? I don't know, that's a pretty Liberal pairing.
"Don't ever be afraid to see what you see." ~Ronald Reagan
And in John McCain I see a self-important windbag who attempted to sell our nation down the river with a bill that had his name written all over it.
I can't fathom what you see in that back-stabbing, faux conserative, but I'll grant you your right to think that way and move on.
He's at least right on some national security issues and government spending.
but certainly across the river...
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Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?
That says it all even though it's just scratching the surface.
You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.
I'm still a Fredhead even if he drops out tomorrow morning. I believe in the principles he espouses and brings to the table. I'm rapidly fading on my lifelong belief in the Republican Party however when a state like SC picks anti-Republicans such as McCain and Huckabee. Its just not my party anymore and I guess I don't have one.
look at it as anti-conservative and not anti-republican. Putting moderate and conservative together in the same phrase is an oxymoron.
--roxer
But both, especially McCain, have gone against the party so significantly as to give one pause. The first vote I ever cast was for Reagan in 1980...I loved THAT Republican Party. Maybe I'm just sad at the moment. I'll vote for McCain if he's the nominee against Clinton. But then again I'd vote for a toaster oven over Hillary so its not saying much.
no Southern state really is; they are not Democrat states anymore, and going Republican was their only choice. Many Southerners are the "government off my back and out of my pocket" sort of conservative/libertarian, but historically since the Civil War, Southern states have had no choice but act "conservative" since they were so poor and were so enmeshed in their racial politics. They quite literally would rather have had poor or no schools for everyone than pay for schools for Blacks. They have antiquated revenue schemes because nobody wanted to pay taxes that would be distributed through out the whole state. There's lots of examples.
The long-held Main Street Republicanism of the Mid-West and libertarian Republicanism of the West never evolved in The South. Until thirty years or so ago, most any White Southerner would simply have dismissed the Republican Party as the party of rich Yankees and Blacks. No matter what anyone says, Goldwater's early "Republican" success in The South was in spite of his being a Republican and because of his opposition to the '64 Civil Rights Act.
The most you're going to get in The South is support for the Not Democrat, then it breaks down on individual interests. And, frankly, most Southerners remain conservative Democrats at heart in many ways, as articulated by Zell Miller and others.
Plus, it is still true that South Carolina is too small to be a republic and too large to be a lunatic asylum. I'm waiting GC!
In Vino Veritas
Carolina is a Republican state, and in many ways THE Reepublican state. Lots has happened since you left South Car..., I mean South Georgia, especially in SC.
There is much to what you say, but more in what you don't. SC has been at the vanguard of the conservative movement beginning with Textile Magnate Milliken and Carroll Campbell. We picked Reagan and Bush. The GOP dominates all offices in the state. All of which turned the map Red.
SC cares about national defense and life. See McCain and Huckabee. And see that Fred got in late. And that Rudy and Mitt didn't try hard.
Crowded field of moderates and a late Fred
don't blame SC
more later
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
www.fred08.com
prison and the zesta saltines (see how nice I am).
smile
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
www.fred08.com
You had to have been of sufficient substance and stature to have gotten in debt to be a convicted debtor. They didn't just go around giving away VISA cards and subprime mortgages in 18th Century England.
In Vino Veritas
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
www.fred08.com
They didn't get to GA until 1795 with the Creek Cession lotteries. I still pay the taxes on a little of that land.
In Vino Veritas
that Fred obviously will drop out (even before the vote is in, much less his announcement tomorrow, when Rudy is still in due to not even trying anywhere) suggesting that if he doesn't drop out, after visiting his family tomorrow, that it would be simply beyond the pale.
Well, at least the Terps beat the Tar Heels and Clemson hasn't yet lost at Duke....
We cool Jeff. I may be wrong about all this. I know I have done things similar and regretted it and said so later. Who knows.
Oh, there is Fred on the TV. Didn't get the memo I guess.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
www.fred08.com
I have blown off my kids and packing for our ski trip to sit at this computer and watch these results. I have contributed 2 diaries today which I rarely do.
To come here and read this crap right now just puts me over the edge.
My God, I even defended you people with Alex.
To say I am furious is an incredible understatement.
FDT deserved so much better than this kick in the teeth from you Jeff. It is pathetic.
If this is what Redstate 3.0 is going to be, then I want no part of it. Thank God I had sick children this week and did not get my pledge in the mail.
I am going to the mountains in about 8 hours. Maybe I will cool down and come back later. Most likely, I will not.
Hay, becker, gamecock, EPU, feel free to contact me anytime.
I think I'm done here. I haven't felt this bad about the state of our country since Jan. 20, 1993. And that was a pretty sh***y day for me.
Crank, go ahead and post your bunny.
"It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." ~Professor Dumbledore
but you are right -- it gets pretty tiring each DAY when we get the new rash of _____ has to drop out diaries. Have a nice trip to the mountains.
I made no contingency plans. No idea where to go from here.
Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J
of the MSM...jump in early, make your predictions, and hope it makes you look like you actually have some insight. This was way too early and irritated me also. I doubt that he meant it negatively though...
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
I guess Jeff thinks he is a first class MSMer now. Maybe he can get a gig as Olberbutts lap dog sidekick.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
1) The place would never be the same without you, and
2) I'm pretty sure Jeff was not kicking anyone in the teeth here - much less FDT. In fact, I could feel his anguish in writing this. Seriously.
Hope things look better in the afternoon (?) there.
Best -
-------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
resigned to the fact that while Fred Dalton Thompson would be the best President this nation has had in 20 years, he was just a horrible campaigner. No, not lazy, and has plenty of "fire in the belly," just something missing that I can't quite put my finger on.
I still hope that he is picked for VP by the eventual nominee.
___________________________________
Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
So, MSNBC puts Sen. Thompson on TV, who's giving a speech. They think, "Surely he's conceding!" But no, he's not, and he proceeds to get 10 minutes of national television coverage while he gives a stump speech. Chris Matthews later admits, "We've been snookered!"
Say what you will. That was a clever move.
____________________________
"Hobbes, what do you think happens when we die?" "I believe we play saxophone in an all-girls cabaret in New Orleans." "So you believe in heaven?" "Call it what you like."
Sorry, the man just didn't care about this at all.
"I'm just beginning...The pen's in my hand...Ending unplanned"
I'll be watching this time around. Just dont connect with a single one that will be left.
happened that caused FDT not to do well. Yes, his timeing was off. I also think that if IA was takeing place today (as thay did in elections past) things may be different. For some reason I feel Fred did not get the attention I would have it would when he started putting out his positions in writing.
Jeff is correct in the things that he wrote. It just sucks.
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
John Paul Jones (letter to M. Le Ray de Chaumont,16 Nov.1778)
If I had the time, I'd write a much nicer post mortem for the Thompson campaign than this. Many things cost Senator Thompson - waiting too long to declare, poor organization, poor marketing of the candidate, a poor theory of the race. But what Republican can't have at least some warm feelings for Fred?
Thompson would be a good veep choice for Romney, Rudy, or McCain.
I presume he will drop out of the race after this, but I personally don't think he "has to," and I'm dead tired of the rush to drum candidates out of the campaign.
I don't know Fred's cash situation, and that may make staying in wholly unrealistic, but if stays in, he can probably still pick up the lion's share of the 55 delegates in Tennesee on Super Tuesday, and cherry pick some delegates in other states with proportional selection. He's put good effort into Louisiana, which votes on Feb. 9 - if, as is not wholly improbable, there is still no clear leader after 2/5, Thompson could even regain a bit of traction. A long, long shot? Sure. But a lot of people are beginning to think this could be a long, hard battle - even a brokered convention (I doubt this latter very much, but better analysts than me are starting to suggest it could happen). I agree with NRO's Jim Geraghty - if there is someone Thompson really wants to endorse (my man Romney?), great, but if he really feels he has important things to say, why not stay in. There quite likely will be a chance later to swing his endorsement to his preferred candidate.
Brad Smith
Professor of Law
Capital University Law School
Capital University website
Center for Competitive Politics website
I used to like to think that liberals were the only ones who ate everything spoonfed to them by the MSM, succumbed to class warfare, and cared more about surface level BS than actual substance. This election has shattered all of those illusions. I'm disgusted by the current state of the Republican electorate, and even more disgusted that some people seem to be gleeful about the fact that our most conservative candidate since Reagan is close to done for, all the while parroting the MSM's talking points (as I write this, the last comment repeats the ridiculous "the man just didn't care about this at all" meme).
Oh well, I've been meaning to finish off this bottle of Cragganmore; I guess this primary at least gives me an excuse.
"I used to like to think that liberals were the only ones who ate everything spoonfed to them by the MSM, succumbed to class warfare, and cared more about surface level BS than actual substance. This election has shattered all of those illusions. I'm disgusted by the current state of the Republican electorate, and even more disgusted that some people seem to be gleeful about the fact that our most conservative candidate since Reagan is close to done for, all the while parroting the MSM's talking points"
Amen! 'Tis a said day for the conservative movement.
"All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Jeff,
I know several Thompson supporters in Iowa (I supported Romney BTW), and your diary is in line with what I hear from them. With the way Romney's initial support pulled back, and the emergence of Huckabee from nowhere, "what might have been" for Thompson is particularly disappointing to them. There is no question that Iowa was a winnable state for Thompson. It didn't happen. I would guess many of Thompson's IA supporters will read your words tonight and agree with you.
It will make for an interesting primary to see those votes diffused to the other candidates.
"I'm just beginning...The pen's in my hand...Ending unplanned"
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
concerned about those conservatives who will not vote in the general election if ther is no true conservative on the ballot?
Its not complementary.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
To you, it seems to be about winning. To the conservative base, it is about electing a representative that actually believes in conservative values, otherwise, what does it matter anyway....
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
I have been on this since the run up.
You can have half a loaf of good bread and maybe some butter or you can have feces and ashes in your mouth. I have been listening to people say serve up the feces and make it a big portion. Well I have been baffled.
What really gets me is I see a fair number of those people pimping Huckabee.
I won't even go how those principles seem to have been applied.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
a false Republican (Democrat in standing), just what is the difference? It will of course only help destroy the Republican party and further blur the differences between the two. Everything else has been said way too many times here to bother to go further. Do your own thing and let us conservatives do ours.
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
There is only one on the ticket and thats McCain. He is the only one who has hurt the party and or the cause. (I don't count Huckabee or RP, Quite frankly if its down to them I will just write in Nixon)
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
McCain (top), Huckabee (2nd), Giuliani (3rd), Paul (nuts)...so, let's see, who does that leave that is conservative? Now if we get down to just who is viable at this point, only Romney (shifter), but still the best of the bunch left. Yes, if it is McCain (as it now looks like), I will also either write in Thompson or watch from afar.
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
At least told you what he was about and how he would govern. Romney and Giuliani have always been the only realistic choices.
Romney though is a panderer and has shown it. Rudy suffers from being merely human and being honest about it.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
but his ideas are closely aligned with the Democrats! He does have his strengths (conservative governance is not one of them), just not exactly a Republican. Romney is the only candidate left standing that I might vote for (with many reservations - flipper, and panderer).
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
He had to pick and choose his battles carefully.
The 2nd amendment issue is big but he had bigger ones to deal with. In NYC most of the citizens aren't even certain where the bullets come out of a gun let alone how to use them safely. Any loosening of gun laws would have meant a better armed criminal population (if he wouldn't have destroyed himself fighting for it)
On the abortion side he talked pro choice but the number of abortions went down. Huckabee the king of the issue actually had Arkansas increase relative to the national stats.
On school choice Rudy fought a never ending battle with the most ridiculous system in the country. ( A public school education in NYC ran over 20K/student while he was there)
On taxes he cut them.
He made the city more business and development friendly which is one of the reason it still has a booming real estate market.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
"Any loosening of gun laws would have meant a better armed criminal population (if he wouldn't have destroyed himself fighting for it)."
You've just given yourself away as another liberal. Unbelievable!
He is at least over 50% liberal to the core. He would be good on foreign affairs and the military, not much else.
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
Can't conceal it anymore. I guess I am just going to go put up the Hillary/Obama Yard sign now.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
like all other lemmings, we MUSH do our duty and vote for whomever just because... No one should ever vote on principle, ever. It's not the republican way.
--roxer
While I don't suggest Jeff is punking Thompson, the silly little children scattered about in this thread are going to remember-cuz I'm gonna vow to remind them-when these losers vying for the GOP nod that call themselves conservative actually get elected.
Then, like the kindergarten nyah nyah going on right now, it's going to come from me directly...
When you all start whining about how your guy turned his back on you and gave 20 million people amnesty, bloated government bureaucracy, extended entitlements, and grew government even more than the sitting President did...reminding you with snickers and titters about how much you whined when Bush did it to you...I will equally enjoy myself like this lack of class and respect for the process of finding a President through what's supposed to be a dignified and civil process.
Wallow away kiddies, and say hello to the new GOP-Democrats without the moniker...
Please do enjoy your ride...
Iustum et tenacem propositi virum non civium ardor prava iubentium, non vultus instantis tyranni mente quatit solida.
-Quintus Horatius Flaccus
Unlike the title of Jeff's blog there have not been any whimpers here just a lot of snickers and nyah nyah nyaaahs in the posts.
Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.
Better be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security. --Edmund Burke
Blog: TMYN
I expressed a similar sentiment on the Romney thread here, actually in response to a very tasteful comment by David Ribiero, who does credit to his man Romney, at least today.
I like what the Klingons have to say about revenge. And since certain people here have decided it's a blood sport, then so be it.
I want some.
Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J
I'm particularly looking forward to spiking the ball when Romney gets knocked out, even if I have to wait until the general election for that to happen. And if by some miracle he actually ends up winning? I can save my ball-spiking, and a hearty, "I told you so!" for his first shameless Pander Bear act.
I will expand on this sometime after I've absorbed the implications of SC's vote, but I do wish to say this to the OP, and all of the others who continually repeated the line, "Fred's the best, but he can't win."
Even if you dress it up eloquently, as Jeff here has done, with a paean to Fred's character, ideas, principles, and consistency to follow up with "you had the worst campaign ever"... it comes down the same thing.
My initial thought of despair is this, fellow Republicans and Conservatives: Live by electability, die by electability.
On the other side of the divide, the Dems are voting for Hillary on the basis of 'electability'. And we all know what the bedrock principles of Democratic Party are.
But... the people -- the rank and file, the root and stem of the Republican Party -- have spoken. And they have said very clearly that they want electability over principle.
So be it.
Welcome to the future of the Republican Party.
-TS
"When men fear work or fear righteous war, when women fear motherhood, they tremble on the brink of doom; and well it is that they should vanish from the earth." - Teddy Roosevelt
Republican voters are pretty annoyed with President Bush for a litany of reasons. Yet, besides Fred, it is hard to argue that we can expect anything better from the other 4 candidates.
I would vote for George W over Huckabee, McCain, Romney, and Rudy.
As much as George W has disappointed, he would get my vote
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
The 'electability' pushers are going to be screwed and tatooed. There are those who are supporting McCain because he polls better against Hillary and Obama than the others so they think we'll get an R in the White House if he wins. They could not be more wrong.
The base will not come out for McCain and no one can win the White House without the base.
I meant what I said and I said what I meant. An elephant's faithful 100 percent.
What a crappy, no class hit piece. A true waste of writing talent. Oh well, we get what we pay for.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
are complaining of.
I'm not a Thompson supporter - although I'm sympathetic to the man since he is, after all, the most consistently conservative and a good expositor of conservative ideas - so perhaps I'm not as sensitive to slights against the man as others are.
Nonetheless, Jeff is not attacking Thompson's character. He is attacking him for his errors, and there is plenty of evidence to show that those errors are real (even if you have other evidence to show that they are not).
When a good candidate fails to run a good campaign, he deserves some criticism.
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
Come with me, stay the night
You say the words but boy it don't feel right
What do you expect me to say (You know it's just too little too late)
You take my hand, and you say you've changed
But boy you know your beggin don't fool me
Because to you it's just a game
So let me on down
Cause time has made me strong
I'm starting to move on
I'm gonna say this now
Your chance has come and gone
And you know
It's just too little too late
A little too wrong
And I can't wait
Boy you know all the right things to say (You know it's just too little too late)
You say you dream of my face
But you don't like me
You just like the chase
To be real, it doesn't matter anyway (You know it's just too little too late)
I was young and in love
I gave you everything but it wasn't enough
And now you wanna communicate
Go find someone else
[ Too Little Too Late lyrics found on http://www.completealbumlyrics.com ]
In lettin you go, I'm lovin myself
You gotta problem
But don't come askin me for help
Cause ya know
It's just too little too late
A little too wrong
And I can't wait
Boy you know all the right things to say (You know it's just too little too late)
You say you dream of my face
But you don't like me
You just like the chase
To be real, it doesn't matter anyway (You know it's just too little too late)
I can love with all of my heart baby
I know I have so much to give (I have so much to give)
With a player like you, I don't have a prayer
That's the way to live, yeah oh
It's just too little, too late
Yeah
It's just too little too late
A little too wrong
And I can't wait
Boy you know all the right things to say (You know it's just too little too late)
You say you dream of my face
But you don't like me
You just like the chase
To be real, it doesn't matter anyway (You know it's just too little too late)
"I'm just beginning...The pen's in my hand...Ending unplanned"
No one that knows me would use the word "classy" to describe me. I'd hate to disappoint.
"I'm just beginning...The pen's in my hand...Ending unplanned"
========
Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?
better a dame than what they call my other female friends...:-)
========
Considering where the good doctor's head was, when practicing medicine, is it any wonder that the man has issues?
Real nice.
I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, but later on you might wish some of us Fredheads didn't think you guys were all a bunch of jerks.
I meant what I said and I said what I meant. An elephant's faithful 100 percent.
the bottom line is that I didn't screw Fred over. Fred screwed Fred over.
"I'm just beginning...The pen's in my hand...Ending unplanned"
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
The best man is still the best man, whether or not he's a media whore. And the grandstanding media whore is still the media whore, whether or not he has an ACU of 82.
Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J
McCain's ACU rating is greatly inflated because back in the day he was in the 90s. in the last decade he's been in the 60s and low 70s. Just thought I'd clarify :-)
"All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Nixon
Ford (late night comedy no less)
GWB 41 (Ok he gave them the ammo)
GWB 43
Why because they could not deal with a hostile media. Face it, for a republican being able to make the media look like the pathetic backseat driving cotton picking know it alls they are is a job requirement. (It also doesn't hurt to be able to laugh and ride a horse away when they are asking you stupid questions)
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
and he's the only one of that bunch who does...
Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J
His whole dustup with fox proved that.
I say that as someone who would get out and make the effort if he was the nominee.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
but that does not negate the fact that you have been (your words) "not nice" which was not called for on the blog.
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
you don't recognize that it was uncalled for, especially at this time.
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
Fred gave "the people" what they said they wanted. The difference between what people say they want and what they really want is a chasm so wide you can't see the other side from the one you're standing on. Some of us actually did want it, but apparently not enough did to make any real difference.
or people are willing to change their vote because they didn't like my comment, he has bigger problems than me.
"I'm just beginning...The pen's in my hand...Ending unplanned"
Fred Thompson is the reason Fred Thompson needs to drop out. He is the one who couldn't be bothered to campaign and there has been ONE debate that he actually showed that he was breathing. Again, easy to blame me, but Fred has been in politics enough to know what wins an election.
"I'm just beginning...The pen's in my hand...Ending unplanned"
A lot of people have a lot of hopes rested on the Thompson campaign. We've had one valued commenter quit RS completely over *perceived* nose-rubbing.
Doing the real thing is just going to make it worse, heh.
Their disappointment rests with him. I'm rubbing it in HIS face, not theirs. He deserves to be called out on his lack of commitment. It has nothing to do with the people that supported him. They couldn't make him do something that he didn't want to do in the first place.
"I'm just beginning...The pen's in my hand...Ending unplanned"
weren't, you would have just ignored it like all of my other comments.
"I'm just beginning...The pen's in my hand...Ending unplanned"
You can look on the Track function of my profile and see that I have a history of taking on people who take the low road in a debate. Snubbing your nose at someone because you think they supported the wrong person is quite childish. It also gives you an heir of holier than thou. That is the same hubris that drove many people away from Ron Paul (That and his foreign policy). I just hope that you get your fair share of this back. Don't come crying to me or anyone else when it does.
Again, I bite my thumb at Fred, but feel free to take it personally if that's how you roll.
"I'm just beginning...The pen's in my hand...Ending unplanned"
I've been chewing my fingers off to keep from typing what I'm thinking, but you really are nasty and offensive, now. It's a darn good thing I was probably sleeping (or working) when you wrote these. I might have been banned and I doubt I'd have cared.
You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.
I do believe that's the first prescient thing you've said.
"All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
But of course I am a Romney supporter and see him as the only viable conservative able to win this election and have wished that people would get over their pipe dream about Fred Thompson.
That you feel the way you do (fredheads that is) is understandable; I would feel the exact same way if Romney's chances were nil and people buried him before I was ready.
Don't refer to a Fred Thompson's campaign as a "pipedream" if you want your candidate to pick up support.
It's flat out stupid politics to do anything but console and butter up people who are now going to be thinking about either a) not caring about this election or b) finding a new candidate.
Be smart guys, be smart.
Pipe dream was a tad harsh and undeserved. If he stays in the race, Rudy wins Florida, and this goes the distance, than I would be thrilled to see a Thompson/Romney alliance.
Now, just for why I would even consider saying something like "pipe dream", my answer was two fold;
1. Immaturity
2. Spite (I am tired of hearing that he is the only conservative running.)
"Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now". -White Goodman
There was a snowball's chance in the hot place that I would ever vote for Romney. All the consolation and buttering-up in the world for Romney supporters would have gotten them nothing more than an upraised middle finger from me.
That said, there's something remarkably unseemly about dancing on someone's political grave before all the votes have even been tallied, and I think it says quite a lot about the character (or lack thereof) of the people who engage in the behavior.
but my heart won't be in it, there will be no more $$ from me, and I'm doing a lot of a) right now.
You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.
please stop. Today is not the day. There are so many respected, intelligent, dedicated, conservatives on this site that care deeply about Fred and what he stood for. In the past on other days it was fine to join in the back and forth with our various candidates but today you just need to shut up and let people deal with this. Fred is a good man, with an excellent, conservative, message and he and his supporters deserve more than to be insulted on this day. I know that you might have felt that you, or your guy has been attacked in the past and that this is a chance to get revenge but as a fellow Romney supporter I'm asking you to stop.
Even if you enjoy posting under the veil of anonymity, remember each poster is a real person and I think a little respect is in order, especially to the great people who run this site that helps us congregate as fellow conservatives.
"I guess the lesson learned here is that it doesn't matter where everyone is from as long as we're all the same religion." - Peter Griffin (Family Guy)
This is my first post - so it should suggest how seriously I take this point - I think this is a question of timing.
Jeff, I think even as a Fred supporter we know that mistakes were made. But look at it this way - this is the death of a candidacy who we have put our hope in as saving us from a multitude of non-Conservative sin. This is just salt in the wound - at least let us make it through one night before you jump on us ok?
Heck as many of you keep saying "he's my #2" - for many people he was the best conservative. And the sign he can't win is a suggestion of how far our party has strayed from what it should be.
This is a sad night - let it hear what is best in sadness. Silence.
Tomorrow you could jump on this, probably even quote his speech dropping out. But it hurts right now and having this post (which is quite mocking in tone) is like a kick in the gut. We're already down - at least stop kicking us until we get up on our feet.
Some of us are extraordinarily disappointed right now. As I just told hubby, I didn't even get to vote. A bunch of liberals and Yankees (and yes, probably a few conservatives too) probably voted my guy out and I didn't even get a say so in the matter.
Disappointment is much too mild a word for it, and I really despise all this salt raining down from my RedState buddies into my bloody wounds.
I meant what I said and I said what I meant. An elephant's faithful 100 percent.
I assume that is a compliment (seen it before) - what does it mean exactly. Again a first time poster so since someone opened the door I'll ask - what's with the 5 yo? :-P
A couple of years ago we went through a little phase where we could rate comments on a scale of 1-5. We don't ever give people 1s (we just call them idiots, trolls or jerks) but we still give 5s when we like it (with all its variations: 5x5, 5555, 5^6, etc.)
I meant what I said and I said what I meant. An elephant's faithful 100 percent.
"A bunch of liberals and Yankees (and yes, probably a few conservatives too) probably voted my guy out and I didn't even get a say so in the matter."
Imagine how different things might be if all primaries/caucuses were held on the SAME DAY? Instead, we allow a few states with a combined population smaller than some cities decide who get's to run on not-so "super Tuesday".
Yeah, I know life ain't fair. But do we have to put up with stupid policies when we don't have to? I guess so. I'm no party leader, just a working stiff with no clout.
www.scottbomb.com
Click here to donate to the Fred Thompson campaign.
"this is the death of a candidacy who we have put our hope in as saving us from a multitude of non-Conservative sin."
That anyone would consider voting for someone who will move us ever closer to the democratic party is mind numbing, just mind numbing. I see that blur between the parties coming ever closer.
--roxer
Conservatives need to learn that this party is a coalition, and that it's okay not to be a conservative.
At the same time your quote is interesting in the same way you implied mine was.
How far do you take "it's okay not to be a conservative" statement?
Huck and McCain have both attacked the right from the left.
McCain in particular has his most intense moments attacking from the left.
If McCain would just be more respectful of conservatives, he would have a definitive win by now.
That is the difference between Bush and McCain--Bush was respectful when he deviated . . as a candidate.
I agree that McCain if he didn't revel in being contrarian would be running away. Heck giving us the sense he wasn't waking up each morning to smack us in the face would be enough.
But as for Bush - that does apply somewhat - unless of course you were one of those bigots/racists/what-have-you who dared to question the Shamnesty bill.
Not much respect there.
...Ted Kennedy, Russ Feingold, Joe Lieberman...especially...if its obvious that liberals your favorite and almost exclusive slumber party invitees.
A coalition, perhaps. A safe haven for betrayal? Never.
That's why I won't participate in a McCain led GOP. Ever.
Better be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security. --Edmund Burke
Blog: TMYN
Better be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security. --Edmund Burke
Blog: TMYN
in so, so, so many ways. And remember I was a very lefty lib for 30 years.
You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.
how could they not, given a Republican party that looks ready to embrace global warming policies that will destroy the economy
Good job dancing on someone's political grave, Jeff! Do you steal candy from orphans for a reprise?
Apparently,voters don't read blogs. This (the Internet) appears to be nothing more than an echo chamber. I read blogs from all across the country.
95% of the bloggers and/or commenters say they are Fred fans. I think we are the only ones voting for him because his numbers SUCK! The populace are uniformed boobs apparently.
Conservatives have cried for a non-pandering, principled, issue- oriented candidate for decades. NOW they support liberals?! Conservatives voting for McCain? Huckabee is seen as a conservative because he’s evangelical? So was Carter! When Romney! is the best of a bad deal on second choices AND comes out second on the conservative meter, things are bad. Romney may be a business man, but, he’s no conservative. If any of the above get primary votes, its because these “conservatives” are either hypocrites or lazy.
What happened to all of the “conservatives” that applauded Fred’s entry into the race? Oh, it didn’t happen when THEY wanted it. The other candidates are winning because you are voting for them. Yes, Fred could have run a more "exciting" race, but, you knew that he wouldn't pander to the crowd when he started. If you wated a conservative, why do you have to be convinced? Just vote for the CONSERVATIVE. Who cares about the "campaign?"
The Reagan Revolution is dead. Long live the liberals. When you get a liberal president, don't blame the conservatives.
Fred Thompson misjudged the electorate. He listened to the GOP and thought that there was support for him. His qualities match EVERY SINGLE THING we've asked for in the last 20 years. And you turned it down. Because you couldn't get excited....
What if......
Too late now. Should've voted when you had the chance.
This was just awesome.... AWEsome!!! Thank you.... Thank you.
-------------------------------------------------------
"I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
The truth hurts sometimes.
FDT ran a lousy campaign.
The venom against Mark for telling it like it is makes me think that some of you were living in a fantasy world.
At least we can thank Fred for helping to prevent the Huckster from winning in SC. He deserves a medal and a prominent cabinet position for that alone.
You folks need to get a grip.
Fred is done.
***.
We should be applauding FDT for the vey reason you state.
But no, we are kicking him in the teeth.
Some of you people have no class.
"It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." ~Professor Dumbledore
Better be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security. --Edmund Burke
Blog: TMYN
That an ACTUAL CONSERVATIVE with some gravitas and a compass that points to the Constitution actually be the Republican nominee for President.
It ain't alot to ask.
Instead, our nominee is going to be the author of BCRA, the gang leader of G14, and the guy who grandstands for the media every time he sticks a shiv in the backs of conservatives.
So yeah. I'll get a grip later.
Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J
"Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now". -White Goodman
Huckabee will never get it, no matter what. Romney has some momentum. But I think all the buzz is McCain (who is the media's choice by far anyway).
Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J
McCain could become the compromise candidate for southern evangelicals. Then couple that with his independent draw and you do have a serious challenge coming from McCain. If you throw in Thompson's potential support and that could be enough to seal the deal. However, that may not materialize if Romney can pull out Florida. No matter what, I think a Huckabee or Thompson win would have been preferable to a McCain win. I just wish Romney could get more support from southern evangelicals....
"Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now". -White Goodman
Your scenario has merit. But right now I'm just tired and hacked because the best hope for conservative America is down, while the non-conservative media hound is in the drivers seat.
Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J
Romney is the media's next target. Hume started laying the groundwork for it last night while the results were coming. When the media machine sets its sights on you, it don't matter how much money you have.They will slowly whittle away even the chance of conservatism.
that you would post this tonight. It has hurt my confidence in Redstate. Let's at least let this play out and let Fred make a decision. I don't see you writing a post-mortem on Giuliani, for heaven's sake.
Where is the Giuliani post-mortem if you're doing one on Fred already? Giuliani had 2% tonight (88% reporting)
A very well-stated post. I am upset with Fred because he could have won, should have won, should have spared us the ugliness that this primary fight has become.
*sigh*
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The Red Sox Republican: Burkeanism, Baseball, and Sundries.
in the Fox News Primary.
AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of South Carolina and other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America."
We, the people of the State of South Carolina, in convention assembled do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance adopted by us in convention on the twenty-third day of May, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America was ratified, and also all acts and parts of acts of the General Assembly of this State ratifying amendments of the said Constitution, are hereby repealed; and that the union now subsisting between South Carolina and other States, under the name of the "United States of America," is hereby dissolved.
Done at Charleston the twentieth day of December, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty.
Mostly because anybody who sinks lower will be getting timeouts until I think that they're ready to post just like real, functioning adults.
You can put your own heads on a swivel, folks, or I can do it for you. Your call.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
I think Jeff is right. If Fred had gotten into the race when his support was at it's peak (spring/summer '07) he probably would have done a lot better. Granted, it's absurd to begin a presidential race almost two years out but as the old saying goes, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
www.scottbomb.com
Click here to donate to the Fred Thompson campaign.
Despite having been fourth in most polls for a long time now, and not higher than third in any single state except South Carolina, Fred Thompson has received nothing but positive, glowing coverage here at RedState, while every other candidate has been lampooned on the front page multiple times.
Jeff writes a very responsible post about what went wrong with Fred's campaign, and suddenly RedState is being unfair to Fred Thompson?
Jeez.
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The Red Sox Republican: Burkeanism, Baseball, and Sundries.
He could have waited to file this one until tomorrow. No one had hardly even reported actually tallies yet. All we had was exit polling data.
When I left the Brownback campaign, I was raring to go to support Fred Thompson. I saw the writing on the wall about two months ago right before I endorsed Romney. I haven't said anything negative about Fred himself because I secretly hoped he would turn it around at the last minute. I'm kind of bitterly disappointed that he didn't. So the only reason you should be complaining about Jeff is that he had the time to write this piece today and he's a better writer than I am and thus articulated the manifold problems that led to this moment more clearly.
What got Fred this post was not that anyone hated him, but rather that he was liked.
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The Red Sox Republican: Burkeanism, Baseball, and Sundries.
and speaking only for myself, my response is not inspired out of anger at Jeff, but disappointment and mourning of what the SC results mean for the future when Thompson comes in a distant third behind both McCain and Huckabee.
Thompson was right when he said this election is about the heart and soul of the Republican Party.
What does SC tell you, Leon, about that heart and that soul?
-TS
"When men fear work or fear righteous war, when women fear motherhood, they tremble on the brink of doom; and well it is that they should vanish from the earth." - Teddy Roosevelt
The front page wasn't extra specially nice about the feelings of Hunter, Brownback, and Tancredo supporters. Why should RS tilt toward Fred Thompson like that?
What do people actually want from Red State? Do people want a site that bends the content to cater to the readers, or speaks with its own voice?
are you always this obnoxious or just going out of the way this evening to come across like an *ss?
Your delight in my candidates misfortune has warn through the last bit of reserve I have in ignoring your posts.
(no, i am not including myself in the "superiors" category)
W.C. Fields for President!
www.shortenurl.com/7cxfm
Why should the writers at RedState go to the lowest gutter trashing of honorable and decent candidates? Moreover, why should RedState writers feel so compelled to stick it to the passionate rank and file people who man the phones and walk the precincts for people whose ideas they believe in?
I just watched McCain's victory speech. I liked it and I like him as a decent and honorable candidate. If he was the guy losing just now I wouldn't kick him in the groin. I certainly wouldn't do my level best to trash the efforts of the people who fought to help him out.
To be honest I see this post as an indictment against RedState, not FDT or other candidates.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
banned but the obnoxious mrsnachos is married to one of the ops so is using her husbands position to be an embarassment to all of Redstate.
Well done is better than well said. —Benjamin Franklin
as I probably deserved the flames, but Leon's position doesn't have anything to do with me and it never has. Period. Just because I didn't agree with you doesn't make me obnoxious. If this had been a mccain post you guys would have been ALL over it.
"I'm just beginning...The pen's in my hand...Ending unplanned"
But denial is more than just a river in egypt.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
the comments to this blog are hilarious. especially since Jeff still clearly wants to praise this mythical white knight.
Fred would have gotten slaughtered in the general, and he was NOT the second coming he was so disgustingly portrayed as. good riddance.
A post like this can wait until tomorrow or Monday. Posting it tonight, before all the SC returns are even in, is just rubbing salt in wounds.
It's classless.
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The Red Sox Republican: Burkeanism, Baseball, and Sundries.
Does the fact that RedState isn't a newspaper exempt posters from showing a little common sense as to the timing of their posts?
I mean, jeez: would the the night of Pat Toomey's primary loss to Arlen Specter, before all the votes were even tallied, have been an appropriate time to disgorge a detailed postmortem of the Toomey campaign?
It's not too much to ask that people chill out from rehashing the campaign's problems for one freaking night, to give the sting a chance to recede a little.
Dude, we're a live medium. We provide instant analysis. waiting a week to do a postmortem is for Newsweek.
Are Fred Barnes and Bill Kristol waiting for a day before moving on from Fred? They didn't give him the respect of a sendoff like this.
And yes, for a blog, the night of Pat Toomey's loss is *exactly* the right time to do a postmortem of Pat Toomey's campaign, if you're a blog.
Dude, I like Fred too, but you're shedding your objectivity here. This post is not 1/100th of what any other candidate has gotten on RedState in the last two months, and I know that you're upset but you have to understand that we've all had moments like this (including me) when it comes to reading stuff on the RedState front page about our candidates.
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The Red Sox Republican: Burkeanism, Baseball, and Sundries.
but I opened RedState within 30 minutes of the polls closing, and there was this piece about how dead Fred was. I'll buy that it was appropriate to prepare this piece in advance. But I think it could have at least waited until maybe 50% of precincts were in. All the majority of FredHeads are saying is that this went up way, way too fast. The polls closed, and up went the post. It would have been good to have seen some results first. You wouldn't want a Dewey defeats Truman moment, would you?
That is a quote from this site's own statement.
Fred was the man that best represents our purpose.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
www.fred08.com
And I agree with you.
Did you read the piece?
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The Red Sox Republican: Burkeanism, Baseball, and Sundries.
standard bearer out with a fait accompli piece accompanied by an unflattering decades old picture that would be used to ridicule our champion if he stays in.
Yes, analyze. Not as a self proclaimed "fair and balanced" network but rather as a promoter of our values and principles.
Setting up Fred for ridicule does not promote same.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
www.fred08.com
and others to ridicule him.
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
www.fred08.com
...you're the only one that finds that pic unflattering. I used it intentionally, because I thought it was flattering.
you may be unaware of the fear it provokes for anyone who was photographed in that era. Our own GC might have skeletons on the closet- bell bottoms, paisley shirts, wide ties, open neck silk shirts & gold chains, a LEISURE SUIT???!!!
:>)
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
www.fred08.com
I am too used to seeing libs use old photos of Repubs to mock. I realize now that you didn't. I guess he looks macho. I'm not gay, not that there's anything wrong with....see Seinfeld
Mike Gamecock DeVine @ The Charlotte Observer
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
www.fred08.com
Wow, Leon. You accuse me of "shredding my objectivity" when you post folderol like this?
"Dude, we're a live medium. We provide instant analysis. waiting a week to do a postmortem is for Newsweek."
I didn't suggest a week. I suggested a day. I suggested that the decorousness RedState otherwise requests and requires of participants should have prevailed out of relative sensitivity to people who have invested themselves in Thompson's candidacy, and that a postmortem could have waited until tomorrow.
Instead we get Jeff dancing on the grave of the campaign, and you defending him in the name of "instant analysis" because, hey, RedState's just a blog and there's no particular obligation to be less of a tool than Fred Barnes or Bill Kristol.
Ooo-kay.
Still, I hope Fred is in the next GOP administration in a prominent position... He speaks about conservative ideas so plainly and succinctly and unapologetically...
"Do the day's work."