Obama May Visit Iraq, On One Condition
He Would Go to Ensure Defeat
By Mark I Posted in 2008 | Barack Obama | Foreign Policy Inexperience | Hugo Chavez | Iraq | Mahmoud Ahmadinejad | Obamafiles — Comments (58) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
The Obama campaign continues flailing around wildly when challenged on Sen. Obama's lack of foreign policy chops. Last week, Obama flipped and flopped over the issue of his pledge to meet with Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez, telling one audience that he would let Chavez set the agenda for such a meeting, and another that Venezuela should be internationally isolated.
This week, he is trying to "clarify" his promise to meet face to face, without pre-conditions, with the leader of Iran. Even the New York Times recognized the desperation with which the Obama campaign is trying to back off from the candidate's naive views on meeting with America's enemies.
Now Sen. Obama is under fire from Sen. John McCain for not having been to Iraq in over two years. McCain challenged Obama to go to Iraq and see the difference that the troop surge has made in that time. McCain even offered to go with Obama to show him around. The Obama campaign first dismissed the call as a "political stunt." But now it has decided that Obama may indeed go to Iraq, just not to see how American and Iraqi troops are winning the war. Obama wants to go to figure out how to withdraw.
This morning on MSNBC's Morning Joe, Obama campaign Communications Director Robert Gibbs said the following when asked if Obama would consider going to Iraq.
"Well, as he said yesterday Mika, it's under discussion about going overseas and going to Iraq sometime between now and the campaign. You know, I don't think we'll be taking that trip with John McCain because as Senator Obama said yesterday, the work that the men and women in our military are doing over there is just far too important for them to be props in some sort of political stunt or photo-op. You know, what they're doing over there is separated from their families, giving for their country. It's truly, truly amazing, and I think we would want to go over there and talk to them and see what sort of difficulties they're facing and see how it is that we can begin to carefully remove them and carefully bring them back to their families and bring them back to the United States."
The Obama campaign won't go to see how the U.S. is winning because that would constitute using the troops as "props" in a "political stunt" and "photo-op." But going over to find out the "difficulties" they are having and to figure out how to "begin to carefully remove them" is not? Nonsense.
The real story here is that Obama has no interest in what is really happening in Iraq, unless it fits his predetermined view that the war is lost. The message from the Obama campaign is clear. Sen. Obama would meet with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Hugo Chavez without pre-conditions and without pre-judging the agenda items, but he won't go meet with the troops in Iraq unless it is on his terms. He would go to make sure America lost if it would help him win.
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Obama May Visit Iraq, On One Condition 58 Comments (0 topical, 58 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
I agree. I'm tired of seeing the troops treated as victims. How dare they do their job, right? It makes little sense to me how dems can complain so much about how victimized our troops are, but when it comes to paying them more... well... ha, nevermind that! And how about actually allowing them to do their jobs without the crying interference about the deaths of Iraqi citizens and the nonsense that is the Geneva Convention (which terrorists don't follow!)? Ridiculous. Democrats are nothing but a bag of bones full of contradiction, accompanied by a fake smile and fake tears for that which makes their oh so tolerant heart's bleed. Ugh. It irks me to no end. I'm married to a US Navy Corpsman who has been to Iraq more than once and has faced some of the worst situations a 23 year old could face. He NEVER wants to be painted as a victim, and he says we need to stay where we are until the job is done. Come to think of it, most of the veterans I know feel that way.
Conservative Californian (isn't that some kind of oxymoron?)
thank you for his service! Second, thank you for sticking with him! Knowing that you're keeping the 'home fires' burning certainly keeps his morale up!
You must live on base otherwise no liberal Californian (isn't that like saying the same thing twice???) would let you breathe!(LOL) I know I had 'fun' in Northern California!
Gerry, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
the obamamessiah can come out well on this issue.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
is look around in the limo to see shell-hock victims.
"ma deuce says no lack of thousand yard stares there"
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
The fact that McCain and the GOP have decided hitting Obama over his lack of Iraq visits is rather stupid. Making this a line of attack will remind everyone of McCain’s dog and pony show where he visited Bagdad market guarded by “100 American soldiers, with three Blackhawk helicopters, and two Apache gunships overhead” while wearing a bullet-proof vest. McCain's statement afterwards made him the joke on every comedy program and blog in and out of the country. Our troops in Iraq have better things to then act as guide to these dog and pony shows. McCain's attack is stupid publicity show.
yourself that...I personally and Obama recognize that this line of attack was spot on which would be why the Senator is going....putz!
Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion
Actually go to Iraq and see for himself the challenges that lie ahead. /snark off
You signed up 28 mins ago in order to help Obama didn't you. It's ok you can admit it.
And judging by your post I can see you are paid by the word.
Nothing to see here move along.
"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Sen McCain has been going on delegation trips to foreign countries since he was in the Navy Liaison Office 30 years ago. He credits those trips for teaching him about other countries and international affairs. I would guess that he would consider the inexperienced Sen Obama's reluctance to accompany him as a sign of being an incurable know-it-all.
No doubt, hosting VIPs can be a royal pain for those involved, but based on McCain's history, it is absolutely ludicrous to call it a publicity stunt.
After all he is omniscient. /snark
"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!
when your narrative is predetermined, and you are going over there one time only just to get a backdrop.
These clowns who come in here portraying McCain's visits as expensive political theatre are probably the same ones who were hammering us with his criticisms of the war in the past. I would not be surprised to find that Obama imself once quoted McCain in his critique of the war. Now I guess McCain is just an addled, old high-value target.
"ma deuce says no memory"
Well. Trolls with bad spelling are hardly an endangered species on the Internet.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
But since McCain is running for POTUS, he shouldn't care if Jon Stewart finds his actions funny, as long as they are for the good of the country.
Only a coward fears public lampooning. Like Obama, for one.
So far, Obama has shown himself to have the thinnest skin of any of the major candidates.
Facts on the ground are merely a distraction from the task at hand. We doesn't need cheap political stunts to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It's time to change the failed policies of the Bush administration for the failed policies of the Carter administration.
I signed up because McCain stupid stroll cost the lives of over 100 Iraqis.
I thought that said "McCain stupid troll", then I realized I would have to type it myself.
"ma deuce says no McCain stupid trolls"
McCain has strolled the streets of Iraq many times which one are you referring to? And how exactly was McCain responsible? Did McCain build those little jihadi's a IED? No, that was the insurgents. Are you trying to say our very presence is the catalyst for the violence we see? If so you are still incorrect because since we have increased our presence the violence has drop. So really don't come in here trying to prop up your messiah because I am positive he will not be as faithful to you as you are to him. Now continue your trolling at your own peril.
Oh and "Reply To This" is your friend
"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!
endlessly. Obama has in one fell swoop admitted that 1)he has made his mind up without even seeing the results of the surge first hand, 2)he is a defeatist and will use the trip to plan our retreat, and 3)that he has made his mind up through strictly third hand information. This quote had better be a part of several campaign commercials.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor
I'm a moderate independent, but I will only vote for McCain if he admits that the Iraq war was a strategic blunder. He can label Obama as inexperienced or lacking judgment, but if he doesn't recognize that the Iraq War was a massive error in judgment, Obama will get my vote in November.
We went to Iraq because we were told they pose a serious nuclear threat and possess weapons of mass destruction. We all know now those weapons never existed. And after consulting 20,000 pages of intelligence, we couldn't find a single connection between Saddam Hussein and those responsible for 9/11.
Consequences: 4000+ brave men and women lost, nearly a trillion dollars squandered in this unnecessary war, Al Qaeda the terrorists we were actually supposed to fight and hunt got stronger in Afghanistan and the northern hills of Pakistan, Bin Laden continue to send tapes, etc...
John McCain was one of the first senators to push for the War in Iraq even before George W. Bush raised that idea. This is where John McCain's military experience and judgement took us.
you have a serious policy dispute with the Senator. He is of the mindset that it wasn't a strategic blunder to go to war, but rather that the execution of the war was bundled for four years. On this note, he was out front criticizing the conduct of the war.
You can believe that the war itself was a blunder, however John McCain believes what was the blunder was that the war was not prosecuted properly.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor
:thumbing safety on: So I'm going to give you a chance to make things right, here. You're going to stop pretending that you're anything but an Obama supporter from the get-go, and I'm not going to assign you a 1,000 word essay on the events leading up to the liberation of Iraq. Aren't I just swell?
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
...but I will only vote for Obama if he visits Iraq without the precondition that our troops first admit defeat and surrender per his fact-free talking points.
P.S. - We're on to the standard Moby intro line followed by
talking points that were better left stuffed in Harry Reid's socks.
--
"We want great men who, when fortune frowns, will not be discouraged." - Colonel Henry Knox
John McCain was one of the first senators to push for the War in Iraq even before George W. Bush raised that idea.
NOT TRUE.
From PBS "Frontline" and other accounts, we now know that at the very first meeting Bush had with his Cabinet at Camp David a couple of days after 9-11, hawks like Wolfowitz and Cheney immediately proposed going after Iraq. Taking out Saddam had always been high on their priority list.
At that meeting, Colin Powell told Bush that he couldn't line up diplomatic support for an invasion of Iraq, so Bush decided to fight the War on Terror in two phases: Phase I in Afghanistan, and postpone Iraq till Phase II.
If you want to see the thinking of the neo-conservatives about taking out Saddam, even prior to 9-11, go here:
When I was in elementary school I hated this kid Brian and he hated me too. Best advice I ever got from my teacher was, "Don't talk to him, just go hit him."
I don't believe in the value of talking to people I disagree with. Waste of time. Blow them away! Bush Sr should've just nuked Saddam when he had the chance, Bush Jr finally did once old Maddas gave him the stink eye.
Piss us off, we'll shove a nuke down your ass. Why the hell would we want to ask what Iran is doing? Assume the worst and press the blinking red button!
"Problems cannot be solved by the level of awareness that created them." - Einstein
It's pretty easy to tell, in fact. I didn't even need to really contemplate the .sig file.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
Any good conservative knows that nukes are shoved UP one's opponent's @$$, not DOWN it.
What a lame Moby.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
I don't believe in the value of talking to people I disagree with.
Oh, I certainly believe in the value of talking to someone who honestly disagrees with me about some issue.
It's just that I don't believe in the value of talking to someone who has already sent me a death threat.
The trouble with you liberals is, you actually think that someone threatening to kill you, or your wife, or your children, is just a "disagreement" that can be talked over.
But even our legal code distinguishes those two cases.
Free speech, such as honest disagreement about issues, is protected by the First Amendment.
But the sending of death threats is a criminal offense in many jurisdictions in this nation.
Now if international law worked the same way, this world would be so much better off. It would have long since classified Ahmedinijad as an international criminal, for his death threats against Jews. Simple!
nearly as evil as he is being made out to be.
Am I conservative? YES
Do I like Obama? A little
Would I rather have McCain? Of course
But I have to admit that I'm wondering how we are ever going to get out of Iraq. I like the idea that we are fighting em over there...and kicking their sorry asses. But this is getting ridiculous. We've been this for way too many years not to have the Iraq govt better able to defend themselves.
I hate the idea of just leaving.
I hate the idea of just staying.
But I also hate thinking about the possibility that Bin Laden and his little followers are better able to recruit more idiots by pointing at our leaders who vow to carry on the war.
I don't know, part of me says "Let's get the Iranians while we're at it"
The other part says "What the hell are we doing? Let's get our guys out of there."
I'm not an Obama kind of guy, but I think the fact that he wants to change things up is what makes him so attractive. He comes across as having different answers. He probably doesn't, but I think his thought process is at the very least different than what we've seen.
...all is lost.
1. "Too many years" is a blink of the eye to a jihadist. Impatience isn't a sound reason to change a strategy that's now working.
2. The Iraqi government has made far more progress than our own Congress has made.
3. Bin Laden's recruiting is on the wane. AQ's only recruiting pitch was their perceived ability to stand toe-to-toe with the U.S. Due to the Surge, that perception is no longer a reality.
4. Take away doemstic socialism and Obama has no answers. None. His "different" thought process is no different from Jimmy Carter.
--
"We want great men who, when fortune frowns, will not be discouraged." - Colonel Henry Knox
"I hate the idea of just leaving.
I hate the idea of just staying.
But I also hate thinking about the possibility that Bin Laden and his little followers are better able to recruit more idiots by pointing at our leaders who vow to carry on the war."
Be a Lover not a Hater...Middle moderates are Lovers...but they will still vote for McCain
"I'm wondering how we are ever going to get out of Iraq"
We are going to Win..have you been sleeping in class?
"but I think the fact that he wants to change things up is what makes him so attractive"
Yes...its hope you can change for.
"He comes across as having different answers. He probably doesn't, but I think his thought process is at the very least different than what we've seen."
Different is always the Best way to go.
I want to CHANGE things to...I want militant jihadist's to never have existed (9-11 wouldnt have happened, you know change)....I want to be rich because that's real change in my life...I want to change the world and make it love how great we are in America...but guess what "not an Obama kinda guy" talking about change doesn't change anything...he has different answers? his answer is the exact same thing the Democrats gave in the 70's which was to leave Vietnam for 1 million people to die...you see that is not CHANGE it is a bad rerun.
Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion
But I have to admit that I'm wondering how we are ever going to get out of Iraq. I like the idea that we are fighting em over there...and kicking their sorry asses. But this is getting ridiculous.
I agree with you that the American electorate is unlikely to accept any more bland assurances of "Stay the course--we're winning"--coupled with waving around all these dire consequences if we don't. Not after all the dashed hopes of the last 5 years. Polls show that the public's patience is close to being exhausted.
But I'm hoping--I'm HOPING--that McCain understands that, and will bring a more positive message. McCain must show the voters just what he will do to keep our commitment in Iraq from being open-ended and perpetual. Because if perpetual low-level war is all McCain has to offer the voters, he'll lose the election, no question. He will lose.
So why don't we wait and see what he comes up with.
As for Obama, what little Samantha Power and Susan Rice have said about fighting terrorism is that promoting the "dignity" of Third World peoples will discourage them from turning to terrorism. My view is that this theory is just as unproven and dubious as the neo-conservative theory that topping certain Middle East regimes would undercut terrorism. (The neo-con theory has already been discredited, with the deaths of Arafat and Saddam.)
I don't think they understand what a jihad is. And if they examined the biographies of these terrorists, they would find that many of them already come from "dignified," middle-class and professional backgrounds. Including the Big Cheese himself, Osama bin Laden. If misery and poverty were the cause of terrorism, then Bangladesh would be a much bigger hotbed of terrorism than oil-rich Saudi Arabia. But it ain't.
The state of mind of the American people about this war is due to historical ignorance, a failure of communication by the President, the fifth column of leftists in the media and the dem party AND the failure of republicans, incl McCain, to defend the President aggresively against unpatriotic dem colleague attacks.
Dashed hopes?
10,000-25,000 dead Americans were predicted before the war.
The hopes of those for much less weren't dashed.
Follow-up attacks on American soil were expected.
None have come.
We were told this would be a war without end for decades.
Al Qaeda is decimated and terror attacks are way down as moderate muslims fight with us en masse in Iraq and Afghanistan for freely elected governments.
McCain should say that.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
to have a solid understanding of jihad or the terrorists.
Some of the very brightest and successful people in the ME become violent terrorists. It is not an ideology of refuge for the weak. It is an ideology of conquest for the strong.
Our inability to confront the ideology in ideological terms is impeding our long term ability to defeat it.
We need leadership that challenges what these people say and confront them on that basis. Bush shouldn't meet with the Iranian government, but that shouldn't stop him from talking about their human rights abuses publicly and forcefully.
We need leadership that declares itself to be in solidarity with dissidents in places like Iran. We don't have to invade Lebanon, but at least mentioning them publicly and maybe offering them arms and material support would be helpful.
Regardless of what public opinion thinks, we clearly have NOT engaged the enemy in a comprehensive full court press. The bully pulpit is absolutely missing in action.
Why doesn't the State Department hold a weekly press conference talking about human rights abuses in Iran?
I am not suggesting we engage Iran, I am suggesting we engage the world in an argument where we point out the evil of our enemies.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
I don't really have a choice. I could never accept somebody as liberal as Obama.
But I'm not ashamed to say that I like Obama. Just spouting off that he doesn't have the experience doesn't cut it for me. And if you want a reason for why I like him I guess it would be this...He is a fantastic communicator who brings optimism and passion to his message of making the world a better place. Yes, I know. Not realistic. But I think that the POTUS absolutely MUST have the strong ability to communicate effectively with the people of not just this country, but countries all over the world. And THAT is the reason so many people are attracted to him in the Democratic party. He is the exact opposite of George Bush (whom they hate).
Bush is a terrible communicator. Obama is a great one.
Bush started the war. Obama never wanted it to start.
I could go on. The "change" message is because they hate Bush so much. That's why it works. I'm from Texas so I can't hate Bush. But I will admit he's a bit lacking in some respects.
script. Why? When you are a leftist, you have to be careful not to say what you really mean. And he isn't as good at lying yet as Bill Clinton.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
will ever be as good at lying as Bill Clinton. George Castanza said it best, "To be a good liar, you have to believe the lie."
Slick Willie bought into his own B.S. In fact, he still does and if you point out that what he is saying is obviously wrong he still gets hostile.
If this country takes a left turn, I'll take Obama over Hilary any day. I don't think Obama will make it through the shredder he's about to go through, though. The "swiftboating" of John Kerry will pale in comparison.
the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth were telling the truth....but you are correct about one thing Obama is getting ready to go through the shredder and it will be a delight for this conservative to watch and participate in whichever way I can.
Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion
The swift boat veterans WERE telling the truth. No doubt. I was referring to the actual damage that was inflicted by the entire character assassination of John Kerry.
Kerry deserved it. I loved every minute of it, too. My favorite part was how he "sort of" threw his medals away. Ha!
But with regard to Obama, it will be very interesting to see how well it works. The guy doesn't really have much of a shaded past (hasn't been in the spotlight long enough) so you have to go after the people he surrounds himself with. Which appears to be anybody he's ever heard preach right now!
McCain needs to make an offer to HopeBamma to have a publicity free trip to Iraq. No photos, no TV, no print, nothing in the form of coverage of ether McCain or Hopebamma's visit.
If the news media want to cover the story, they have to do without props. The military controls the ground in Iraq, let them restrict access of the press in Iraq for OPSEC requirements, too high value of both parties nominee roaming around the country to let the press in. Maybe 24 hours after the visit, the CG of the US Army in Iraq can serve as tour master.
Love to see Hopebamma spin that one.
______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
bk
No our wonderful men and women of the US Armed forces should be good enough in my view. If they are not good enough, then there is a real problem.
But to follow up, the US Command General in my plan would do a full re-enactment of the tour, sites and sounds that McCain and Hopebamma saw during their time on the ground, and then the news coverage cover would be open to full reporting. No advantage to McCain or Hopebamma.
I really wish McCain would get right in Hopebamma's face with this spin free, prop tour offer. No media coverage lets the truth on the ground come out, and after election, one of these two guys are going to be in charge of those troops and the future of Iraq.
______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
debate in the green zone in front of the troops. Full media coverage allowed as long as Fox is guaranteed a 'moderator's' seat (I'll even cede one to CNN for that, but not the NYT).
Oh, and if Obama is really concerned about whether or not the troops would be being used as props for the debate, let the troops vote on whether or not they'd like to have the candidates debate in the Green Zone.
*What they hey, if it can be scheduled before the DNC convention, make it Obama & Hillary vs. McCain in the Green Zone.
It's best to keep the active duty troops, and active duty military in general, out of the political fray as much as possible. Not only to help the military maintain an independent and neutral stance beyond it's constitutional duties... but also to keep embarrassments like Obama out of the way of crushing their morale with his style of insulting and denigrating attitude towards them.
Just my 2 cents.
_____________________________________________
- "Make love not war? Real men can do both!"
for Top Brass in performance of their official duties.
Trust me on this, the soldiers dodging bullets are anything but neutral. Their views on Sen. Obama are, for the most part, not useable in mixed or polite company! The ones that can be used in public aren't very good either.
Besides, Sen.O' doesn't have a spine or the b***s to go there as part of a debate unless he gets them back from Michelle.
Oh yeah!! NO TELEPROMPTERS!!!!
That would be just so outrageously amazing!!! Could we get someone to start a petition or something to get this to become a reality??? I want it broadcast live, raw, unedited, simulcast on every radio and TV network. Suspend everything else, close everything. Get a neutral third party like Switzerland to do the TV camera work with a triple redundant satellite signal to ensure an uninterrupted feed!! Everything!!!
Gadfly YOU ARE A GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!
Lets think about this for a second, if Obama goes to Iraq and participates in a debate in the green zone, he will claim that as military experience; it only scares me because of the other utter garbage he has talked the walking dead into believing. But he may also start talking to the Iraqi people, and shoot he may claim be part Iraqi, just let him do some digging into his strong lineage, and he can probably come up with some estranged connection to some Iraqi decendants....after all his middle name is Hussein.....hmmmmmmmm maybe he is realted to the late Saddam?
What a boob that guy is. LOL
Close your eyes...imagine Sen. O and Sen. McC on a stage in front of a few hundred G.I's in full BDUs. Just try to imagine Sen. O trying to explain to them that they're losing and how pulling them out will improve the situation. Now imagine Sen. McC telling them his view of the situation. Try to imagine the different looks on the faces of those G.I.s!! Now imagine those pictures being broadcast around the world!!
Brings a big smile to my face!!!!
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson