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A "messiah" that kills babies?

... it's an Obamanation

Sinking Hilary would have been easier I think. With Obama, it is pure emotion. He is like an artist using broad strokes to define his agenda. We have seen it many times and it will be very hard to beat - very hard.

--roxer

both saw much bigger turnout for Democrats in their primary than the Republican primary. Those were still 2 pretty good years for R's. Turnout in the primary doesn't necessarily means turnout in the general.

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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.

In 1988, it was not very competitive. Was 1980? This year there were 5 realistic candidates and 3 realistic candidates through 25 states.

I think this is a lot more like 2006 than 1980 or 1988 and Rs are not doing themselves a favor by thinking we are on the cusp of a 40 state win. We'll be lucky to win at all.

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but also I don't want woe-is-us-theskyisfalling! In 1976 we went all the way to the convention, but the Democrats primary had 60% higher turnout then the Republican. In 1980 D turnout was 47% greater, 1988 - 92% higher.

With all the talk of turnout, I have only seen one place where they mentioned that turnout in Iowa and New Hampshire were records... for Republicans (though not nearly as large of record gains that the Democrats have had). So yeah, we're starting from behind this year, but the sky isn't falling.

The big question will be, will the Democrats be united or not?

The Democrats in particular have had a number of "negative" high turnouts, where friction between various wings of the party produced substantial voter interest but a badly scarred nominee with little chance of winning the general election.

So let them fight on to the convention!

(Figures and quote from here)

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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.

and overconfidence can kill us.

If we approach this election as an uphill battle we might just stand a chance. Clever slogans and slurs against Obama won't work. Discipline will. We need to steadily present a plan for continuing progress in Iraq and moreover we need to present an even more ambitious plan for rebuilding here at home.

I agree on that point, but I also don't want to get into a situation where R's feel the election is already lost and we don't have a chance to "why bother."

We need to be pessimistically-optimistic!

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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.

Our optimism needs to be based on A PLAN, something like the Contract with America of '94.

This is the Year of Change and Hope. Whomever best defines a "workable plan" for change and hope WINS. This will involve details, details, details and a coherent presentation.

If you've ever seen McCain speak( I have 3 times) you'd have the confidence to know that he can be a great spokesman for The Plan. His team just needs to get busy crafting it.

Between being overly pessimistic & overconfident is the key. I don't think many of us will fall into the overconfident category - those who are overly pessimistic would be well served by taking a deep breath, a "day or two" off, & then coming back to get this done.

McCain has been tested. Obama is like buying a pig in a poke.

Maybe we can portray Obama as a big time roll of the dice for America at a time when we don't have much margin for error. Are people really so desparate as to vote for someone who doesn't have any experience in anything beyond community organizing?

was just as competitive amongst Republicans as it was Democrats. Both Dukakis and Bush finished third in Iowa, both had to fight to win New Hampshire and both didn't "wrap" it up until Super Tuesday, though it must be said that Bush was stronger in his respective Super Tuesday than Dukakis.

In primaries they're essentially talking to the converted, but in the general they have to convert the unconverted, the skeptical, the real independents, and that is when the ultraliberal, empty suit Obama will have difficulty.

"Glory is not a conceit. It is not a decoration for valor. Glory belongs to the act of being constant to something greater than yourself, to a cause, to your principles, to the people on whom you rely and who rely on you in return."-Senator John Mc

I would say the electoral landscape is not nearly as bad as 2006. In 2006, President Bush's approval ratings were at their nadir, and every Democrat in the country tied his/her opponent to him. Also, the Iraq war was at its worst level, in terms of success and popularity. We also had huge scandals break right before the election, i.e. Abramoff and Mark Foley. It really took a perfect storm for everything to happen the way it did in 2006.

I'm not trying to say 2008 is rosy, but it's not near as bad as 2006.

“.....women and minorities hardest hit”

I used to think that folks were actually smarter and more objective using wisdom to figure things out. Not any more. I now believe the majority of people move to the lowest common denominator, that smarts are no longer part of the equation of right and wrong or good and evil. That's why Obama's rhetoric works, because his listeners are not moving beyond the broad quotes he makes looking for substance, but instead are using pure emotion to make decisions. He's like a drug. People are down - economy is wobbling, war, terrorists, dismay at not being able to "change" things and an endless cycle of news - more bad than good. And so this guy walks up with a message that hits you like a narcotic - it just makes you feel good. That's what it's all about. Simplicity. All we can hope for are the debates between McCain and Obama where Sen. McCain will take him to the woodshed. Ah yes, hope.

--roxer

I think we all need to take a deep breath. It is February. The race will inevitably be about ISSUES. Obama is becoming more arrogant and haughty with each speech he delivers. He will wear his welcome by November.

By the way, teenage girls buying Obama shirt cannot vote (unless they are over 18).

you mean more arrogant and haughty than McCain already is now?

And just to be contrarian, the race is rarely about issues. It's about party and about which of the two people you would rather have a beer with if you don't have a party.

I believe that Obama might be one of those Rock Star one hit wonders right now but as the real election approaches most voters get serious and start thinking about who will save them the most money. It always comes down to the pocket book. They will start asking who is going to pay for universal health care etc... That should level the playing field a bit and then McCain can push the experience issue. With a little luck he can pull off a win....

Could you point to a post where you have said anything positive about Republicans?

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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.

They love their little narratives of building up, then tearing down. They did it to Clinton, and they'll do it to Obama and McCain. And if they thought that Huckabee had a legitimate shot, they'd do it to him, too.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

I swear to God: every two years.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

I agree with your comment Moe. I think if we went by the negative projection of our candidates in the last who knows how many General Elections that had been thrust upon us by the Media and opposition followers we would have not won an election in our lifetime.

Lets see how this all plays out. Its nine months till the General Election and a lot can happen between now and then. At the end of the day will people be able to pull the lever for someone who will immediately create a vacuum in the middle east, someone who will levy the greatest tax increase in history and someone who will negotiate with our enemies. We shall see.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

-- John Adams

I have a feeling that this guy can call for the abolition of Wyoming, and people will still give him a long standing ovation and chanting "Yes, we can." He really is that good at what he does. As for me? I'm placing my bets on a Romney/Jindal ticket in 2012.

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.--Milton Friedman

Force-growing Obama is what put the Democrats in this mess of theirs to begin with.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

...he will call for the forced secession of Texas, a policy guaranteed to please Texans and Democrats alike. This will rob Hillary of March 4th delegates and mean George Bush is no longer eligible to remain president. Only THEN will he righteously abolish Wyoming to disqualify Cheney. And then, of course, y'all know who the president will be. Until November, anyway. Yes, you underestimate Obama.

(-2.75, -4.92)

...I believe that Texas still retains the right to split itself up into smaller States. You guys should offer to trade that in exchange for splitting up California into three parts (North, South, & LA), NY into two, and giving Chicago Statehood.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

...that would make the unholy target of our scorn and derision way too diffuse. It'd be confusing if I always had to remember which sub-Texas all the problems in America came from.

(-2.75, -4.92)

But think of the glories that would ensue from having a Governor of Los Angeles! Because you know that they'd always go with a celebrity. My God, think of the gubernatorial Cabinet...

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Again, I have to state my opposition. What would Hollywood churn out? Without the South or the midwest to mock (they'd be foreign countries, and hence off limits for mockery) they'd get self-obsessed and turn on each other and start making mawkish, navel-gazing, unappealing films about the horrors of being a star and the self-referential banality of making movies. Oh, wait...

Are you sure it's not already a state?

(-2.75, -4.92)

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

in the Lone Star State and we dutifully and proudly learned that as part of our deal to be the only Republic to join the Union that we negotiated the right to split into 5 separate states.

Hook 'em Horns!

"All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

Often amusingly so. :)

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Well, as long as none of them is named Perry or Hutchison.

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wished that they'd go ahead and exercise their option. If they did it right, you could add about 8 Red Senators. Ah, one can dream, can't they? Sigh!

"All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

And where was McCain last summer...and where is he now. All Obama can do now really is go back down. The "fever" won't continue to strike cords as the people who were likely to get this disease have already got it.

Erik

...particularly the ones about profanity, and then you can email the Directors and explain to them why you should have your account put back on.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

What went wrong, you ask? People, like you, joining the conversation a few weeks ago is what went wrong. All the armchair Republicans woke up from their snoozefest and voted for the guy "whose turn it was" and the guy who had all them nice glossy pictures on the cover of Time and Newsweek in the local grocery stores.

Let me get this straight.

1. You were defrosted from a block of ice by scientists only in time to catch the California debates.
2. McCain has so many personal flaws you can't even consider voting for him. (Personal flaws?)
3. You like Obama's voice and stature, so you may vote for him even though you know nothing about him.

I'm lost too. : )

"The most dangerous form in which oppression can overshadow a community is that of popular sway" -James Fenimore Cooper

Why not just fall in the trap of all the other who fall for Obama's empty rhetoric. "Hope" and "Change" for the worst.

With Michael Dukakis it was his opposition to the death penalty and his furlough program for criminals and his opposition to having children say the pledge of alliegence in school and so on.

What are the attack points against Obama? Has he voted to raise taxes umpteen times? Has he voted for a Che Guevera day? Has he endorsed same-sex marriage? There has to be something to attack in his record.

He voted to kill infants.

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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.

Anyone who supports killing infants has no business even running for president.

Yeah, "baby-killer" usually doesn't poll too well.

We can't just say, "National Journal rates him as the most liberal Senator." That doesn't have enough ummmph to bring down his popularity. We need some issue to use that can get about 60 percent of the public saying, "Hey, this guy doesn't believe what I believe."

Tim Schieferecke

Considering that Che murdered a lot of Cubans. Has McCain started demanding an explanation from Obama? That would be a start.

Hugo Chavez.
Che Geuvera.
Saddam Hussain.

Paint Obama as the dictator's best friend. Weak, weak, weak on national security. Too interested in making nice with radical Muslims.

It could work.

Tim Schieferecke

Erik

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

1) Ten months ago, the Democrats were promising a pull-out. Now, the surge is working, the tide has turned and the Dems are mum. Ten months from now, anti-Iraq rhetoric will look defeatist and weak.

2) Only a liberal could think like that.

3) Yes it is

4) Okay, your one for three.

Sure, the media will accuse this attack strategy of being "coded language." But so what? Just accuse, accuse, accuse and eventually Obama's chior boy image will be tarnished.

Once that happens, it will be a close race, unless McCain sings another round of "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran."

Soft on crime and drugs isn't going to woo a whole heck of a lot of voters in this election.

McCain has already said some thing pretty dumb things. The bomb Iran thing was one. The "we'll be in Iraq for a 100 years" thing was really dumb.

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

McCain will have to answer how he intends to pay the cost of continuing.
Obama will have to describe in detail his exit plan and explain how he intends to minimize the consequences.

The public might be inclined to listen more closely to Obama but I wouldn't envy his job of explaining this to a skeptical public. No one is predicting a good outcome, no matter which path we take.

First of all, the issue is barely on the radar screen. Second, NO ONE - not Obama, not Hillary, and of course not McCain is going to pull any troops out of Iraq any faster than if Bush were still in office. The Dems know better. They would love nothing more than for Bush to pull out prematurely and have the resulting bloodshed on his hands but there is no way they'd do that themselves. Utter hipocracy.

www.scottbomb.com

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He's in politics, so he's fair game to be challenged on his long litany of liberal wacko positions. He can't legitimately say he's being "attacked" if detractors like me focus on his European style socialism. If he does cry foul, he'll look extremely weak. Wheras the chickification of America is in progress, most guys still won't support a girly man!
Tim Schieferecke

... simply because Obama's more liberal than Hillary. It's not like Hillary's going to bring up abortion, etc. or attack Obama for being a liberal...

It's very easy to attack Obama from a moderate or conservative position because he's an extreme liberal with a record to show for it. We'll just need to print out a list of everything he's voted for, ever, and circulate.

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We are Western Civilization enablers

We are a large and diverse allied force of different people whose strengths can be brought to bear as the situation demands.

We will shake the punditocracy and redefine American politics for a generation. The 06 victory will be a flash in the pan for democrats. They will be demoralized and exhausted.

We can. We will.

Huzzaaa!

Good night.

"The most dangerous form in which oppression can overshadow a community is that of popular sway" -James Fenimore Cooper

suggested the necessity of a Conservative Declaration Of Independence. This will enable Republican Reps. and Senators to oppose the President if they feel he isn't being conservative enough. A renewed conservative coalition with the proven backing of millions of our conservative base would and should be feared by any President regardless of party. President Bush continually stymied the conservative movement throughout his presidency on spending and the border. We can't allow McCain to do the same if and when he becomes POTUS.
Tim Schieferecke

It would seem far more sensical to counterattack w/ the idea that being in Iraq for 100 years (or whatever, stress the number is arbitrary when defending it) might be necessary, and we'll do whatever's necessary to win whatever it is we're fighting. I mean, I don't agree with that one bit -- blame America first Liberal that I am -- but I can't see any upside to John McCain changing the topic here. He has a defensible position if you're of the mindset* that he is, and I think many Americans are of that mindset. So don't change the subject. Least of all to global warming, for the reason you cite and more.

*I don't feel like going into what I mean by this. Do any of you? It'll just be tedious and it really isn't the point. Can we just skip it?

(-2.75, -4.92)

I have a feeling we did. However, yes, McCain does have a defensible plan, he can point to both South Korea and Germany as examples of what Iraq might look like with US bases there for 50+ years.

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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.

...I wondered that. But the poster seemed somehow to be making a point, and my point still held up regardless, so I went ahead and commented.

See, I don't think the South Korean or German examples can be ported into the Middle East. Which is why I'm skeptical...

(-2.75, -4.92)...

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Neil, I'm open the idea that Iraq could turn out like the above listed nations. But how? How, given the context, within Iraq and along its borders, will it have the stability or (more importantly) cohesion to turn its manpower and capital into a system of stable democratic governance and economic growth? And how will the direct American presence help that? I think we'd be better off leaving, taking our polarizing influence out of the equation, and leaving a pro-capitalist, pro-Arab government that completely Westernized Iraq through subtle day-to-day choices made by consumers of Western products and ideas over radical Islamic ones...

(-2.75, -4.92)

I notice your focus is heavily on economic growth. Why is that? That's an interesting focus to put on it.

It seems to me that freedom comes first, and prosperity later. That's the plan.

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I think that economic growth often precedes freedom. Or at least a realignment away from ideological extremism. It's why I'm very much against the sanctions against Cuba. It's what I saw personally in Turkmenistan. Turkmen people loved Coke, rap music, nonsensical English words stenciled on "fashionably" ripped jeans. And suddenly they loved America and were whispering about how they disliked their regime, wanted to go to America. Disliked Putin. It's what we see in the media about China (to a small and oppressed extent). Soviet Russia crumbled in part (the cultural part) because of the allure of the results of the economic system of the West. I think that when one looks at the demographics of the folks extending the insurgency in Iraq, and looks at their counterparts in America and Europe, one can see that a little mall shopping would do them good. That's too flippant a way to put it for sure, but that's what I mean, basically.

But I, a former (and perhaps still presently) democratic socialist can hardly lecture anyone on the stabilizing value of economic imperialism...

(-2.75, -4.92)

It's not as though Japan and Germany are all that alike culturally. Completely different heritages, and yet our persistent military presence combined with political support helped them both largely along the same path.

Heck, Japan had a culture influenced heavily by politicized religion that spoke of expansion, militarism, and a love of death when it achieved the goals put forward. Sound familiar?

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...on the Asian mainland, waiting to re-Shintoize the Islands in this scenario? We can't forestall the Islamists forever, we have to make the Iraqis content and the envy of the region. We do it be giving them what everyone in the region wants. Stuff. Lots of electronic stuff.

(-2.75, -4.92)

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...seriously.

(-2.75, -4.92)

You have this assumption that if their economy improves, that everything else will follow. I don't share that assumption. I think in unfree societies, a rising tide doesn't lift all boats.

I think under your idea, we'd get an Iraq that looks more like China, with Islamofascism replacing ordinary fascism, and that wouldn't be any good for us.

Don't take it as a rejection personally. I give everyone apparently inscrutable one liners. :-)

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

Iraq is a bizarro world indeed!

I'm here on Redstate advocating economic imperialism and you're saying that we need to impose military force to keep things equal. This needs to be slept off, perhaps...

I'll note that this proves my general assumption that at the core of most good faith arguments there's a simple disagreement of opinion, perhaps, yes, with a few stray disputed facts whirling around...

Anyway, I'm glad you see what I'm saying, at least, even if you think it's not the solution.

(-2.75, -4.92)

I argue for equality of opportunity, not outcome :-)

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

of how Japan and Germany came to be what they are now and what Iraq could become seem to overlook that they were DEFEATED by unified western armies intent upon their destruction.

Germany did not surrender until east and west front forces met at the Rhine. The country's infrastructure was a veritable junk pile. They didn't HAVE a country anymore.

Japan was threatened with twice-demonstrated instant personal ANNIHILLATION without 'honor' and an invasion from Russia and U.S.A. before it surrendered. The country's infrastructure was also a junk pile.

How does that compare to the state of things in the Mideast? Make no mistake about the realities; Islam is a stronger force than nationalism in the Mideast. Iraq is a political structure created by the British. It has no intrinsic sense of itself for people to coalesce around. It's a convenience for those in power, not so much the man in the street. Strong man rule is the historical pattern of government in the Mideast with Islam as their backer or puppeteer.

I agree; we should throw a lot of 'stuff' their way and hope they get so addicted to the western way of life that it counterbalances the religious and tribal forces that are antithetical to a free democratic state.

However we must maintain a large force in the area for as long as necessary to be able to react to any destabilizing incidents that will be orchestrated by our enemies.

I personally would like to see a large number of our forces in Germany redeployed to Afghanistan or Iraq to be a standby force in counterpoint to Iran and Syria, our two largest threats in the Mideast.

Sadly, I believe that most don't understand the threat that we face from Islam. The underlying poison within Islam is one of 'all must be forced to worship our god' and 'our god is the one true god'. This has been the driving force of Islam for 1500 years. The nations of the Mideast have consistently threatened western civilization from the Grecian times. They have been beaten back many times yet they still return to the attack. They are very tenacious and they have never been defeated-in-detail.

This is THE struggle of World. Sadly the only answer seems to be to attack them with the same dedication and ruthlessness that they are able to muster against the West. Unfortunately our temperament and the willingness to believe that others wish to get along and will negotiate in good faith makes it difficult for some to accept this as the only answer.

I say that since they seem to worship death and since they believe that dying for Allah is such a good and great thing; we must oblige them at every opportunity. This is not to say that all Muslims must be killed; just the ones who want to die.

Harsh? Yes. That's why JAPAN and GERMANY are the nations of peace that they are today; we stomped them into the ground and killed as many of their warriors as we could.


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The Constitution isn't a suicide pact.

I recall reading that after the fall of the Soviet Union, their fall was in large part was attributed to the failings of their economic organization (Communist central planning) and inability to compete with the U.S. and other economically prosperous societies.

In turn, this led to the view that if we could make more countries capitalistic (economic freedom), they would become more democratic and that military conflicts between countries would decrease as we all became part of a global interdependent economic system.

However, this decade - in particular 9/11 and the exposing of Islamism, the subsequent political development in Russia and China - demonstrate that economic freedom requires a certain substrate of political freedom to develop within, and that political tyranny can lead to throttling of economic freedom.

The experiment in Iraq was to try to create an alternative Middle East economy that worked by intervening militarily to incubate a democratic political system - trying to push the economic freedom-political freedom dynamic from the other (i.e. political) direction.

Obviously, there is a two-way dynamic between economic freedom and political freedom, and the goal is to find a way to move the spiral upwards rather than downwards. Concentrating exclusively on one pole (economic or political) isn't enough by itself.

And Rightly So!

My results:

Economic Left/Right: 6.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.31

“.....women and minorities hardest hit”

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"The Constitution is not a suicide pact". Justice Robert H. Jackson

How long we've been in Korea? And then ask him what would happen to the South Koreans if we left and N. Korea attacked them?

It takes guts to pick a side and stand for it, but any wimp can throw up his arms and say "Awwww.. I don't know... you guys pick."

For crying out loud at least pick a third party and stick up for him (though not here). Show some backbone.

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