Obama's Faith Far From Conventional
Obama sees religion as political tool
By Kevin Holtsberry Posted in 2008 | Barack Obama | Faith in America | Obamafiles — Comments (12) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Please read this transcript of an interview with Barack Obama on his faith/spirituality with Chicago-Sun Time religion columnist Cathleen Falsani. It is full of interesting tidbits like this:
GG:
Do you still attend Trinity?OBAMA:
Yep. Every week. 11 oclock service.Ever been there? Good service.
I actually wrote a book called Dreams from My Father, it’s kind of a meditation on race. There’s a whole chapter on the church in that, and my first visits to Trinity.
And this:
GG:
Do you have people in your life that you look to for guidance?OBAMA:
Well, my pastor is certainly someone who I have an enormous amount of respect for.
I have a number of friends who are ministers. Reverend Meeks is a close friend and colleague of mine in the state Senate. Father Michael Pfleger is a dear friend, and somebody I interact with closely.GG:
Those two will keep you on your toes.OBAMA:
And theyr’e good friends. Because both of them are in the public eye, there are ways we can all reflect on what’s happening to each of us in ways that are useful.I think they can help me, they can appreciate certain specific challenges that I go through as a public figure.
His tune is a little different now.
More below.
But here is something interesting that struck me: try and find anything in that interview that would convince you that Obama holds the theology of a mainstream Christian.
Obama said in his press conference announcing that he was leaving Trinity that he didn't think his "conventional faith" would be subject to such "scrutiny." Maybe it is because his faith isn't so conventional.
This is not to suggest that there is something wrong politically with being heterodox theologically, but I do find it interesting that Obama is constantly trying to reassure people that he is just a regular Christian trying to apply his faith to his life and work. But they seem far from conventional based on what we have learned.
And this is the troubling pattern that develops with Obama: nothing is as it seems. He campaigns as a unifying figure who can bring the country together but has a history as a leftist activist with connections to radical and unsavory characters. He is presented as the messianic political figure and rhetorical magician and yet he is a full time gaffe machine thee days.
It seems his faith and church are just one more area where Obama's calm demeanor and charming personality hide a more radical reality.
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Obama's Faith Far From Conventional 12 Comments (0 topical, 12 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
I was especially taken by his definition of sin:
GG: Do you believe in sin?
OBAMA: Yes.
GG: What is sin?
OBAMA: being out of alignment with my values.
His values. He is his own creator. He is the messiah.
He never thought that his radical religon be an issue? This is the guy who is running on judgement!
We Red State ers will not vote for him but think of all those lost sheep who do not care what he believes, be it faith , social or fiscal beliefs.
If we Republicans could have picked a candidate less electable than Hillary, we would have failed to pick what the Dems. have given us on a silver plater.
seems to be in creating political opportunities for himself.
http://samuelatgilgal.wordpress.com/2008/06/01/obama-throws-his-church-u...
GG:
Jack Ryan [Obama's Republican opponent in the U.S. Senate race at the time] said talking about your faith is frought with peril for a public figure.
OBAMA:
Which is why you generally will not see me spending a lot of time talking about it on the stump.
Well...not until I think it might help my appeal to voters outside of my Liberal base.
But this little tidbit jumped out at me:
So, I’m rooted in the Christian tradition. I believe that there are many paths to the same place....
Translation: it doesn't matter what you believe, be it Buddhist, Muslim, Hinduism, Pastafarianism, God loves us all, and we all go to Heaven!
Being rooted in "Christian tradition" != being rooted in Christ. Anyone who attends church semi-regularly can say they're "rooted in Christian tradition" without knowing a darn thing about being a Christian. And from the sound of it, I doubt he knows much about the Christian faith he claims to cling to strongly to....
No, wait, that's just for us bitter people with our guns.....
Brian
Certainly for fundamentalist Christians, only those who follow a sola scriptura version of Christianity are saved. It's a good discussion to have as part of a dialogue of Christianity but it's not relevant in terms of electing a president. If it were, then you open up the discussion to whether a Catholic should be president if his/her faith is not Christian enough. What about Mormons (Romney) or Jehovah's witnesses (Eisenhower) or Quakers (Nixon) who want to be or have been president? Or how about our current president who claims to be a born again or evangelical Christian but doesn't attend regular services while is openly religious may or may not have orthodox Christian views. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6014570/
I find it insulting that some would denigrate the faiths of either President Bush or Senator Obama. They say they are Christians and men of faith and I'll take them at their word. Both have used their faith to attract voters and votes because that it the political environment that they have to live in. Look at Senator John McCain and his contortions in suddenly becoming a Baptist and then seeking out and later rejecting the endorsement of crackpot preachers Parsley and Hagee. It was painful for me to watch Sen. McCain have to go through that because an apparently significant pool of voters thinks that's required.
in reference to this: They say they are Christians and men of faith and I'll take them at their word.
Well, when you look at Bush, the closer you look, the more he is what he purports to be, inre his personal faith. But with Obama, the closer you look, the more he is NOT what he purports to be. There's no reason to let Macho Bambi off the hook simply because he *claims* a fairly orthodox Christianity. It's fair game because even a cursory look reveals glaring inconsistencies.
We're not choosing a prom queen, we are choosing the man who will be the most powerful man in the world for the next 4 years. It matters.
Unfair. Unbalanced. Unmedicated. -- IMAO
are any different or larger than the inconsistencies in my faith or in President Bush's "faith". Yes, his preacher is, in my opinion, a hateful man. His church has hosted other hateful men including Farrakhan(sp?). However, I go to a church where I don't like the pastor and I don't agree with many of his views. From what I see, Obama is a man on a faith journey like many of us. He grew up essentially an atheist or at most agnostic. When he moved to Chicago to become a community organizer, he gravitated toward the church that the community movers and shakers attended. For all of Rev Wright's faults, if he brought Obama and others to the Christian faith, he redeems himself at least a little bit.
I see a huge difference, an unspeakably vast chasm between the two kinds of experiences. Bush's journey of faith took place a bit earlier -- the early, wild years, alcoholism, the whole fighter-jock lifestyle, that gave way eventually to a life of Bible-based faith in Christ. But at no place in Bush's journey (or in mine or yours) was there the screaming, pulpit-cursing, spittle-flecked radical racism and hatred - which Obama claims he was oblivious to. I give Wright NO credence, and I believe if ANYTHING he has been a force for evil for all these years, dressed up as a Christian minister.
Obama claims to be a post-race uniter, but a quick exam shows him being verrrrrrrry chummy with people who are not only NOT post-race, but the worst kind of cynical race pimps.
Meaning he is very likely the same thing, just dressed up nicer.
Unfair. Unbalanced. Unmedicated. -- IMAO
First of all, I agree with EPU's comment above -- does the candidate actually believe what he says he believes? That provides information about whether or not a candidates tells the truth, which is an issue of character.
Secondly, when one attempts to determine what a candidate's actual beliefs are and whether they fit with the traditional understanding of a particular faith, the point is not to argue over the exact rules defining a particular faith but to determine how those beliefs have shaped the values of a candidate. I may not agree with all the theological positions of Jews or Catholics, but I have no problem whatsoever with how the doctrines of those two faiths will have shaped the values of a candidate who is an adherent of traditional Judaism or Catholicism. I'd be quite comfortable voting for either.
However, if someone purports to be a Christian, but by his own admission doesn't believe in several of the major tenets of that faith, that causes me to question what parts of the faith he actually does believe and whether or not I can trust that his faith will have shaped his values in ways that I might normally expect. In this case, the answer seems to be "no".
Thus, it is perfectly justifiable to ask these questions about the purported faith of the major candidates.
--
"'You come of the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve,' said Aslan. 'And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth. Be content.'" -- C.S. Lewis' "Prince Caspian"
Obama never really disowned his church until this last conflagration with a visiting pastor. Unfortunately in the racially charged Dem contest, we have to point out it was a visiting "white" pastor. It seems too convenient an excuse to only now leave the church. I think many are seeing this as duplicitious and (in the words of "Rev." Wright) a "politician doing what politicians do." The questions are will he stand up for anything or can he stand up for anything - or will negative press cause him to change on a seeming dime?