That was not a debate.
It was an opportunity for lefty journos (and sportscasters) to take childish cheap shots.
By Mark Kilmer Posted in 2008 — Comments (18) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Why was there a debate between the Republican Party's Presidential candidates? Was it the last gasp of a dying cable network (MSNBC)? Was it an opportunity for Politico.com to enter the world of playas? Who knows, who cares, and who watched?
It was not a debate, but the clowns were there. Gaylord Parkinson's 11th Commandment – devised for and attributed to the President at whose library this show took place -- offers me guidance in discussing the candidates, but names like Chris Matthews and that sportscaster guy were a barrel of laughs, family entertainment, etc.
I watched part of the circus. I first saw the lead in, the intro to the debate, featuring an irate, temperamental sportscaster who cannot think clearly, but the debate itself was at President's Reagan's library, and everyone had nice things to say about President Reagan. Warming the cockles, etc., and the sportscaster was probably off-camera, muttering about Gorbie not having as many WMD as Reagan insisted, manipulating intelligence to win the cold war, etc. Nontheless, random order had Romney was on the far left and Tancredo on the right.
Chris Matthews was moderating, and he used his forum to blast the Bush Administration in front of a group of Republicans who needed to keep their distance from that Administration. (NOTE: It was the same with Clinton (Bill) when he left office with half the contents of the White House in tow.) He asked Jim Gilmore if President Bush should shakeup his Administration. It's not a question for a Presidential candidate, one who would serve after the Bush Administration had left town, but it was part of Matthews' prank. He later asked Gilmore if he would keep Karl Rove in his Administration.
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Chrissy (Matthews) asked Rudy if he thought the increased influence in the Christian conservatives "in your party is good for it." Increased from when? People have been complaining about the Evangelicals for thirty years, forecasting that they'd doom the GOP. As long as any group votes and contributes time and money as the Evangelicals do… nah, Chris has his known facts.
There were some good answers to decent questions. Matthews asked Romney about Osama bin Laden. The best part of Mitt's answer, I thought, was when he explained that the war of terror was not all about OBL. It's a worldwide network that wants everyone dead and everything destroyed. But Mitt cheapened his answer with something I suppose he had to say about OBL: "But he has got to pay and he will die." (He's been dead for a while, Mitt.)
Some Politico.com reader, I think her name was Nancy, wanted to know if McCain would ask Tancredo to serve as his director of INS. Said John: "Short answer: no." He also promised to follow OBL "to the gates of hell."
My eyes were starting to glaze – I was missing the Yankees game – when Matthews asked Mitt about who is allowed to receive the Eucharist in the Catholic Church. Mitt said that the Catholic bishops could do what they thought they should do and the government has no business interfering in church matters. The First Amendment guaranteed this: separation of church and state. We can debate this "separation," but a least Mitt knows what it means.
Ron Paul said he wants to run a non-interventionist foreign policy much like President Eisenhower's.
One of the Politico.com fellows, a guy named John, drew on the attitudes of a high school student when he asked Sam Brownback: "What's with your party and all this corruption?" The argument he was making, in his childish way, was that the entire Republican Party was corrupt and had violated the public trust. This is a slander, but no answer was needed. John had made his partisan point, which is an amateurish, childish, perverse way to run a Presidential debate.
But this wasn't a Presidential debate.
For the record, both Brownback and Trancredo explained that corruption was not unique to the GOP.
I'm not sorry I missed the end of the fable. The Yanks had to finish sweeping a doubleheader, and pretty soon that sportscaster guy would join Matthews and Howard Fineman to tell us what is this about that, how we look to the hardcore lefties after a non-debate which was chained to a corpse (MSNBC).
Dean Rice, who runs the Draft Fred Thompson 2008 campaign, had this to say:
"We heard many references this evening to President Ronald Reagan. In fact, we watched a 90 minute sprint between podiums by candidates trying to lay hold to the Reagan mantle... Only one person in the potential field today carries that same confidence. Although he was not on stage tonight and may the only candidate not comparing himself to Ronald Reagan, voters are anxiously awaiting Fred Thompson to enter this race.”
Indeed, there was a Fred Thompson-shaped hole on that stage. The Reagan dynamic will be Thompson's. When Thompson gets in, Thursday night's farce ("debate") becomes a footnote to a footnote to the story of the time before Fred Thompson joined the race. Let's now forget about Matthews, that sportscaster guy, and the Politico John fellow prattling about cooties and boogers. (Politico Jim was a lot better, but again, this is unimportant.)
What's important is that Matthews and Politico John got in their shots, we were reminded that Jim Gilmore and Tommy Thompson are running, and the Yankees won.
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That was not a debate. 18 Comments (0 topical, 18 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
format, I would ask for a mulligan on another network with another host. That's not to diminish those who did well (Brownback, Romney, Hunter) or to boost those who did poorly (Rudy and McCain particularly), but the insipid questions and childish format skewed the results.
I find these "debates" to be a terrible waste. The short time people have to discuss issues is practically laughable. (Seriously, how short does the response time have to go before it is actually comical? "Sir, what would be your strategy for dealing with the terrorist situation in Afghanistan? You have four seconds to respond.")
As such, the amount you can learn about the candidates is minimal. It's just a bunch of cheap talk.
The parties themselves, though, learn a lot from the so-called debates: which candidate causes the best gut reactions in the public.
Can you imagine people sitting still for a debate-proper these days?
"Fellow citizens: I will now occupy the half hour allotted to me in replying to Mr. Lincoln." --Stephen A. Douglas, August 21, 1858.
there was a Fred Thompson-shaped hole on that stage.
"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill
it still looks like Thompson was the winner.
Maybe not being in the same room with The Barking Obermann and Chrissy Matthews qualifies him as the smartest man in the room race. Assuming he's in, of course.
If their was any question as to the Democrats being soft on defense all you have to do is to look at the intelligence authorization bill that is being debated in the House.
They have deverted funds from intelligence to study global warming. There is already millions of dollars already being spent to study global warming.
What was said after 9-11? That we didn't have boots on the ground. How can we have the intelligence if the Dems spend the money on other things. It is very disturbing.
one of the candidates (like Mitt in his response about OBL) should have explained the GWOT and then pointed out that half the democratic candidates don't believe it exists (based on their raise of hands at their debate)
I'm not watching any debates. I'm doubly not watching any debates that involve PMSNBC or spittle-spewing Chris "Time!" Matthews. What is the RNC thinking?
Bloggers didn't enhance their image either. This was a rare case of lose-lose-lose, but plenty of weiners.
You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.
Mathews hurt himself a lot with this debate, I have seen even liberals commenting negatively about how he handled it.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
"Indeed, there was a Fred Thompson-shaped hole on that stage. The Reagan dynamic will be Thompson's. When Thompson gets in, Thursday night's farce ("debate") becomes a footnote to a footnote to the story of the time before Fred Thompson joined the race."
Perhaps but Perhaps not. I have met Thompson several times. One of good friends worked for him in DC so I have some insight on the man. I would urge this. Before everyone proclaims him the Second Coming of Reagan we need to see him actually campaign and suffer the scrunity like the other guys.
Thompson very well might be the Second COming of Reagan but perhaps people should not be making such big claims yet. If he isnt Reagan(and who can be) then there will be a disappointment level that will be uncalled for in the reality of things.
Just an observation. Also the fact that it is just May and I feel many groups and mews media are trying to urge us to Choose now seems a tad premature. President are rarely born but are made. A tough Primary season is a big part of it and is needed for various reasons. One is that the future leader of the Free World can not only be tested but see who stays loyal when things get hairy. Something that one needs to know in this rough and tumble world of politics. I for one am hoping this thing Primary is not finished for all practical puroses after South Carolina.
That being said Thompsons entry into the race , I am looking with great anticipation. He will be a great addition to several quality guys
JH
LOuisiana
I like a strong primary season. Both of the Bushes and Bob Dole were more or less anointed by the movers and shakers in the GOP, we need to get away from that.
BTW: Do you think Less Yards can beat Nick Satan this year? Geaux Tigers!
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
Les is indeed more. That other Coach (make sign of the cross), in which can't name will be humilated as well as all the 92,000 yahoos that showed up for a SPRING FOOTBALL game lol. I fear sorry for Nick. THe expectation there are unreal. I do have a small clue now how it must be to be an Auburn Fan now lol.
I think the Florida State/Bama game is going to be one to watch. I am going to luv seeing Jimbo go against Saban. Also remember that Jimbo Fisher blames Alabama for vetoing him getting the head coaching job at UAB. That game is going to be fun
we no longer have to rely on the erratic Dumbasscus Russel.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
LOL. I am going to miss JR. I thought he was pretty good. His problems was that often he would try to force things.
I am excited about Flyn but nervous. I wish he had more playing time so we know how he will react will it gets hairy or if he can puck himself up after messing up. But Les and Jimbo say Flynn is great and I think Saban said the same thing.
From your lips to God's ear, I pray.
In any other year I would just agree. But this year is different. We have Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, maybe Florida and South Carolina, and then the National Primary. And once the NP is over, I expect the candidates to have been annointed and the polls to drone on for the remainder of the primary season. In the rush to "have an impact on the primaries" a number of our states including California and New York have joined together to create a monstrosity that I expect to do away with what was once an important and useful tool is assessing the candidates. Anybody can look good for a week or two, it's maintaining the composure, prescence of mind, and wit for months on end that is tough. Take Howard Dean - a national primary the week before the scream and he would have been the Dem nominee, and McCain might have won on the Republican side for a Dean vs. McCain matchup.
that would have been funny, trying to decide which one was less unhinged than the other.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
Ron Paul vs. Dennis Kucinich as the undercard that I want to see. They are both desperate to raise money. Maybe we can start a new era in promotional debates. Get Don King to promote these bouts.
Yeah that sucks. I am so against it. I think it was on here that someone suggested something great. LEt the small states go first. The Primaries would progress as the states got bigger. I realize that one would need to interperse a big state in once in a while so not to have them all at the end but that seems workable.
That way we outside the megaStates can interact and size these people up more closely./ At times I really envy the people in Iowa and NH. It must be like a 4 year cvics lesson that just repeats

to ask Democratic candidates would they have Alger Hiss in the White House. But being a successful Republican campaign adviser is a higher sin.
I have figured out why liberals didn't want debates on Fox News, Brit Hume doesn't meet the standards of Chris Matthews, quality is everything.
"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville