The 2008 Fields: A Taxonomy

By Dan McLaughlin Posted in Comments (36) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »

Full disclosure: I've previously announced my support for Giuliani. But this is more of an overview post.

With the post-Labor Day entry of Fred Thompson into the race, we have almost certainly reached the point of no return for the 2008 presidential race. It's already late for Fred to get in, but at least he's been raising money, hiring staff and making plans; it's nearly impossible for anybody who hasn't done all that to get in after him (Newt Gingrich being the only remaining potential candidate who has even hinted at doing so, other than third party possibility Mike Bloomberg, who doesn't need to run a primary campaign). As such, it is possible to classify the candidates in each field. There are, in the main, six general types of presidential primary contender, and we have representatives of each type in this year's two fields. While not every candidate fits every characteristic of a type, they can generally fit most of the definition for a particular type.

Read On...

Rock Stars

Politics, it has been said, is show business for ugly people. In a similar vein, when you refer to a politician as a "Rock Star," it's not exactly the same as being Elvis in '55 or Lennon and McCartney in '64 in terms of excitement.

There are a few defining characteristics of a Rock Star candidate, all of which boil down to the fact that a Rock Star candidate, unlike other types of candidates, is a known quantity to much of the electorate (at least, to the people who vote, especially primary voters, not the sort of people who don't know who the current Vice President is). Thus, we can generalize:

*A Rock Star candidate can generate his or her own press without having to pay for it simply by announcing a stand on an issue or appearing in a locality.
*A Rock Star candidate already has a number of issue positions, biographical details and personality characteristics that are identified with the candidate - even if the candidate's actual positions are deliberately obscure.
*A Rock Star candidate is often referred to by one name (first, last or nickname).
*People already have a fixed opinion of a Rock Star candidate.
*A Rock Star candidate is regarded as a national figure regardless of what jurisdiction he or she represents.
*A Rock Star candidate raises money effortlessly.

While being a Rock Star candidate is no guarantee of a successful or even respectable showing in a presidential primary, it's undoubtedly a huge advantage, and it's very rare to have more than one Rock Star in a party's field. Sitting Vice Presidents are almost always Rock Stars, even when they are terribly unexciting people, as are past presidential nominees.

Past Rock Star candidates to win their party's nomination include Reagan in 1980, Nixon in 1960 and 1968, Eisenhower in 1952, George HW Bush in 1988, Dewey in 1948, Gore in 2000, and Stevenson in 1956 (if you are keeping score, half of those won the general election).

Other than prior presidents, there are at least 7 Rock Stars sitting this race out - Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney, Condi Rice, Newt Gingrich and Arnold Schwarzenegger (who is constitutionally barred from holding the job) on the GOP side, Al Gore and Howard Dean on the Democratic side. Merely to list these names should be proof that being a Rock Star is no guarantee of success. There are others who are still rock star types but are recognized as being past their primes as presidential contenders (Ted Kennedy, Colin Powell) or are no longer Rock Stars (Dan Quayle).

In the current field, the Republicans have what ought to be an embarrassing luxury: two Rock Star candidates running simultaneously, Rudy Giuliani and John McCain. Rudy's been a national figure since the mid-90s, and became a globally known one after September 11; McCain, of course, won national renown as a POW in the early 70s and became a political brand name in the 2000 primary campaign. But McCain's campaign has all but expired due to a combination of his lack of money, age, and accumulation of enemies among the party's base, and Rudy's refusal to distance himself from his socially liberal record continues to be a huge vulnerability, so instead the field continues to have room for other serious contenders.

By contrast, the Democrats have just one true Rock Star candidate, Hillary Clinton. Hillary is perhaps the most polarizing figure in national politics, with the arguable exception of her husband and George W. Bush - the winners, of course, of the last four elections (assuming that Bush completes his term, not only will we have the first consecutive two-complete-term presidencies since Jefferson, Madison and Monroe presided during the collapse of the opposition Federalist party, we will have the first ever consecutive two-complete-term presidencies of different parties). Of course, neither Clinton nor Bush started off with such astronomically high numbers of sworn enemies.

For all of Hillary's built-in weaknesses, it's hard to see how she loses in the primaries. She has nearly unlimited financial resources and name recognition, she doesn't make mistakes, and she isn't anathema to any faction in the party besides the hard-core anti-war lobby, which proved in the Dean '04 and Lamont '06 campaigns that it can't close the deal even in liberal electorates all by itself. Sure, Hillary is a preachy, nagging schoolmarm, but don't forget quite how many preachy, nagging schoolmarms vote in Democratic primaries. Scroll down the RCP Poll Index for the past 10 months and you will see that every single poll has one thing in common: Hillary at the top.

Perennial Contenders

The Perennial Contender candidate is not as well-known to the general public as the rock star candidate, but is a well-known quantity among political observers, has usually run a less successful campaign in the past or been short-listed as a vice presidential choice. The rationale for the Perennial Contender's campaign is that his moment has arrived. Perennial contenders, however, especially Senators, have a fairly dismal general election track record.

Past examples of Perennial Contender candidates who won the nomination include Adlai Stevenson in 1952, Mondale in 1984, Clinton in 1992 (recall that he'd been in office over a decade and given the keynote at the 88 convention), Dole in 1996, and Kerry in 2004; I'd also list Hubert Humphery here rather than as a Rock Star - nobody really had Humphery on their radar until March of '68 after LBJ pulled out, and he basically had the nomination fall into his lap as the safe choice after the real Rock Star in the race, RFK, was assassinated.

The Perennial Contender class has until recently been the weak link in the GOP field; other than McCain, who appears past his prime, there wasn't anyone whose "turn" it seemed logically to be, no gray-headed default option from the center of the party's ideological spectrum. And that's precisely where Fred Thompson came in.

Fred generates a fair amount of glamor and excitement for his Hollywood years and his commanding physical presence (towering height, deep voice, general air of gravitas), but I would not put him in the "Rock Star" class - his face and voice may be familiar to the general public, but his name really isn't, much less a concrete sense of who he is, where he comes from and what he stands for. But he is, at the same time, too familiar a face inside the Beltway (from Watergate and from being first elected 13 years ago) and on TV to be a Phenom candidate, as described below; he was even briefly rumored as a 2000 candidate. I'll have more on Fred another day.

On the Democratic side, with Wes Clark and Evan Bayh sitting out, among others, there are three Perennial Contender candidates in the field: John Edwards, Bill Richardson and Joe Biden.

Edwards is more a perennial candidate, having not stopped campaigning since 2004 and thus running on the same flimsy resume of a single undistinguished and largely absentee term in the Senate in a state he would have no chance of winning in a general election.

Richardson, a perennial VP short-lister, governor, Congressman, ambassador and Cabinet Secretary, is a classic Perennial Contender type, all resume and retail charm but dry as dust on TV. He's made some periodic noise in the polls, pulling around 10% and a fourth place finish in Iowa and New Hampshire, but seems unlikely to do more than hang around.

Biden, I've often compared to the Senatorial equivalent of a boy raised by wolves - having spent nearly his whole adult life surrounded entirely by Senators (he was elected at 29), he's hilariously out of his element outside the Senate. Like Richardson, despite his windy, gaffe-a-minute speeches, Biden's combination of long experience, especially in foreign policy, and gregarious persona might make him a real contender in a weaker field, but this year he doesn't stand a chance.

Phenoms

The Phenoom candidate is a candidate who has fairly thin experience and accomplishment, but has for one reason or another been mentioned as presidential timber essentially since entering public office, and thus rockets to national prominence with astonishing rapidity, often less than 8 years after first surfacing on the political radar. John Edwards was such a candidate last time around; successful Phenom candidates include John F. Kennedy in 1960 and George W. Bush in 2000.

There are two Phenom candidates in the current field - Mitt Romney and Barack Obama - Romney was first elected to office in 2002, Obama first rose out of the state legislature in 2004. Obama's lack of a firmly established policy profile and the shortness of his time in the spotlight precludes him from being classed as a Rock Star candidate, though he rapidly approaches that status. Green as he is, I'd give Obama a good shot at the nomination if Hillary didn't already have it in a headlock.

I'll also come back to discuss Romney more at a later date, but the short summary is that I have mainly regarded Romney less as a politician of conviction than as a savvy businessman pursuing an underserved market in running as the conservative in the field; the entry of Fred Thompson into the race upsets that strategy, but then a smart venture capitalist like Romney always bets on the successful early entrant to attract competition.

Dark Horses

The Dark Horse candidate is generally a candidate with no obvious reason why he can't win other than his obscurity. Dark Horses are almost always governors, successful and sometimes charismatic executives who haven't stepped on the toes of any of their party's significant factions. For the most part, a Dark Horse can only capture a weak field, though a Dark Horse who picks the right issues can suddenly steal a march, at least temporarily after the fashion of Dean in 2004. Past Dark Horse nominees include Jimmy Carter and Mike Dukakis.

Most of the potential Dark Horses, sensing a strong field, chose to sit out this cycle - Pawlenty, Sanford, Barbour, Rendell, Bredesen, Easley (I class Mark Warner more as the phenom type). That leaves two, both on the GOP side - Mike Huckabee, a charismatic and experienced socially conservative governor who has impressed many at the debates, and Duncan Hunter, a hawk on national defense and immigration (and also a solid social conservative) and Vietnam vet who has spent decades in the House, including as Chairman of the Armed Services Committee.

The GOP field, divided as it is, doesn't quite seem ripe for a Dark Horse insurgency (note that Carter and Dukakis were both Democrats), plus Huckabee in particular has never been a favorite of economic conservatives (in a sense he's the anti-Rudy, conservative only on social issues). Both men may yet position themselves for a VP nomination or Cabinet post, although as I and others have argued, Huckabee would do the party much more good running for the Senate in 2008.

Agenda-Setters

Agenda Setters are the easiest kind of candidate to peg - they are often quite unpretentious about their dim chances of winning the nomination, but they are nonetheless a significant part of the storyline because their real goal is to influence the direction of the party and the ultimate nominee. Steve Forbes, for example, was highly successful in influencing George W. Bush's economic agenda after having been a force in Bob Dole's 1996 promise of a 15% tax cut - the fact that Bush moved to suck the oxygen out of Forbes' 2000 effort to reprise his 1996 campaign meant that Forbes was more, rather than less, successful in 2000.

Agenda-Setters, of course, are inevitably disasters as the nominee, McGovern and Goldwater being the exemplars. Third party campaigns like Ross Perot's, by contrast, are more successful if they aim to set the agenda.

The Agenda Setters in this year's fields? Sam Brownback for the social/cultural/religious conservatives, Tom Tancredo for the immigration restrictionists, Ron Paul for the libertarians, and Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich for the far left anti-war movement. The anti-warriors, of course, already have a lot of influence, while Paul and Tancredo aren't getting any traction thus far outside of their base camps; only Brownback looks likely to get up enough head of steam to exert some gravitational pull on the nominee, and even that has thus far been an uphill battle. Had Chuck Hagel run it would have been as an Agenda Setter; his absence leaves Paul to carry the anti-war standard, such as it is, in the GOP.

Sixth Sense Candidates

So-called because they're the only guy in the room who doesn't know they are dead. The only candidate I can recall to claim this status and then revive his way to the nomination was Kerry (in late 2003, Mickey Kaus held a contest to come up with ways for Kerry to withdraw without humiliating himself) - Clinton came close in February 1992, but nobody ever really landed a death blow, and Clinton wasn't so much a lifeless campaign as one dogged by scandal. More often, such campaigns are dead from Day One. The defining characteristic of a Sixth Sense campaign is that nobody can figure out the rationale for why the candidate is running or who he is supposed to appeal to.

Many such illusions have been popped in the past year (e.g., Frist, Pataki, Kerry, Gilmore, Tommy Thompson); remaining Sixth Sense campaigns include Chris Dodd and the quixotic John Cox.

Where Do We Go From Here?

What is particularly unusual in this year's Republican race is that ideology has really trumped classification. In an ordinary race, much of the spring and summer of the year before the primaries is spent with candidates in each classification running mainly against the others of their class, trying to secure sole possession of their particular role in the field. Instead, what we have seen is mainly a series of feeding frenzies, with Mitt Romney often at the center. Regardless of where the attacks actually came from, this made eminent sense based on the positioning of the candidates - everyone to his right saw the frontrunners as being vulnerable from the right, and the frontrunners (Giuliani and McCain) wanted to keep those challenges weak and divided; also, Rudy had to recognize from the beginning that Romney was the candidate most likely to threaten Giuliani's status as the guy with executive experience.

The dynamic should persist now that Fred is in the race, and doubly so with McCain fading - while Rudy's ideal endgame is a mano-a-mano showdown with a manifestly unelectable social conservative with no executive experience (i.e., Sam Brownback), his intermediate game has to be to keep the center of the party from coalescing around either Romney or Fred until it is too late. Fred, by contrast, has a huge vested interest in pouncing on those voters who just didn't buy Romney as a true conservative.

A more interesting question to turn to later is the dynamics of Romney's strong position on the calendar given his heavy investment in Iowa and New Hampshire and local-boy status in New Hampshire.

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The 2008 Fields: A Taxonomy 36 Comments (0 topical, 36 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »

Well done...

I think Romney has more to fear from Thompson than Giuliani does. Rudy has always known that in the end he will be mano a mano with one other candidate by Super Tuesday.

But now Mitt has a challenge on the left from Rudy- and a bigger challenge on the right from Fred! and Huckabee.

Once McCain drops out (my guess after Michigan) most of those voters go to Rudy.

United States Air Force
http://airforcepundit.blogspot.com

Actually, South Carolina and Arizona polls seem to indicate many of McCain's supporters are going to Thompson. Looking back over-all, Thompson got a large up-tick when people started abandoning McCain over his ineffectiveness, and then immigration broadsided McCain giving Thompson a substantial boost, while Giuliani dropped and Romney stayed flat (odd thing about Romney: he always seems to stay flat when other candidates move).

So the poll numbers do not support your contention.

The big question I see is where will Romney or Thompson's supporters (conservatives) go when one or the other finally drops out? They will likely go to the other candidate of the pair and definitely not to Giuliani. Thompson's supporters more so than Romney; Federalists do not like Giuliani. That person (Romney/Thompson winner) will be the person who beats Giuliani, due to social conservatives not wanting Giuliani. He truly is a candidate of last resort for conservatives.

The joker in the deck is Huckabee. If he can steal conservatives away from Thompson and Romney, then he might, in a dark-horse situation, keep them from gaining traction, further splitting the conservatives. That's the only way I see Giuliani winning the Republican nomiation; if there is a single viable conservative, Guiliani simply cannot counter the numbers -- if more than one then the split works in his favor.

--
A liberal is a man who is willing to spend somebody else's money -- Carter Glass

Very interesting taxonomy. Just one historical explication. In 1968, Humphrey had the nomination wrapped up due to support from party regulars. Had RFK lived to attend the convention in Chicago, he would have had a very small portion of the delegates. The race was over before the California primary.

I think Fred is more of a Phenom. Romney is more of a periennial candidate if you include his business experience and his failed Senate and Governor bids.

Duncan Hunter is really not a dark horse. He's an agenda setter --> pro-war.

In fact, I think that Huckabee is actually, as far as he's gotten, an agenda setter --> Fair Tax.

Oz

www.first-cut-politics.blospot.com

I agree with most of your analysis.

Do we end up picking the candidate that has enough of each archetype in his or her character to satisfy the largest cross-section of the base? Or do certain years lead us to lean more heavily to one kind of candidate over another?

I had to create an account just to compliment you on your analysis. I think you nailed it.

Giuliani loves Thompson in the race, that's for sure. Thompson either loses against Romney (Giuliani is no worse off), replaces Romney (again, no worse off), or, best case for Giuliani, Thompson plays the spoiler.

The interesting question is Thompson's strategy for going after Romney. It seems to me that unless he wants to just be a spoiler, he's got to take the early states out from under Romney. Can he manage that?

Those aren't good percentages, except in baseball.

McCain is clearly a sixth sense candidate as his rapidly collapsing campaign and continued insistence that yes, he can win the nomination show. His shot was against Bush, who defeated him soundly. For worse or for better, in the current environment once you blow your shot, it's over.

Thompson is clearly a Rock Star. Of the three criteria listed, he questionably misses only two: people already have a fixed opinion of him and he raises money effortlessly. Since he hasn't really started to focus on the money raising, I'm not sure that one counts against him just yet.

Ron Paul is not an agenda setter: to be an agenda setter you must influence the raise, even if only a little. Even though this is technically his first race, like most libertarians, he is a perennial candidate. Although I suppose there are those who could argue his is another six sense candidate.

Full disclosure, I have not chosen who to back. However, I would add one additional category; the "Burnt Toast" candidate.

After this weekends comment on the war and Fred's entry I nominate the "mane" man Romney as it's first entry. Iraq is a mess? Spare me. Buh-bye.

"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"
Contributor to The Minority Report

Unless you think raising taxes in Arkansas is "conservative". Or unless you think support of Bush's amnesty for illegals is "conservative".

Finally, this race has begun, and its a three man race between Thompson, Giuliani, and Romney.

May the best man win....

I'm not an agent, I just write books

In calling him the anti-Rudy.

"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill

many conservatives are supporting Rudy. If Rudy successfully moves enough to the right, it will be tough to beat him. Trust me, Fred does not want to take him on one on one. What I mean is, if most people are split and their is no large wedge issue, Rudy is a better fighter and tougher opponent.

Molon Labe!

My reply is below

My point is simply that Huckabee is the flip side of Rudy: where Rudy is conservative on foreign policy and economic issues (and, of course, law enforcement) but not social issues, Huckabee is conservative on social issues, but not economic/regulatory issues, and doesn't have much to offer on foreign affairs.

"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill

"If Rudy successfully moves enough to the right, it will be tough to beat him."

After he wins the nomination, he will stop moving right and start moving back left to his old self.

perceived, correctly, as the far more conservative candidate, although not a social conservative.

Giuliani as a "conservative" offers me one of those "lesser of two evils" choices. I've learned over the years to establish a level below which I will not stoop. Giuliani is below that level. He's the nominee, I'm third party.

then that is another 1/2 for Hillary. You guys can do what you want, but I am amazed by the total lack of respect for Rudy. He has done nothing but help GWB since 9/11, he played a major role in getting GWB and many other Republicans re elected. Let me tell you a little story, if Rudy is the nominee, that means the majority of REPUBLICAN primary voters support him! See this is not magic, his poll numbers are because Republicans like him.

I have problems with Rudy too, as with most candidates that are not I, but if someone refuses to vote for Rudy even if he runs against Hillary, then that person has some type of personal issue we can not fix here.

btw, remember the war on terror? just checking.

Molon Labe!

Its not a lack of respect for Rudy that is causing many conservatives to bail on him, its Rudy's policies. The truth is, many conservatives have spent decades fighting the very policies Rudy supports. For those conservatives, its a nightmarish thought that anyone would even consider Rudy as the republican nominee.

Hey, I like what Rudy did on 9/11, and I'd support him as a senator from New York. And I might even support him as a presidential nominee if I didn't already have better choices such as Fred Thompson, Duncan Hunter, etc..

I'm not an agent, I just write books

I want to support Rudy, but he does seem weak on some issues I care about. I am just suprised by so many on this board that say they will not vote for him no matter what.

What does Bush have going for him? The War on Terror, tax cuts, and judges. Rudy is on board with all three issues. Again, there are candidates such as Hunter and Thompson that "punch more holes" with my views, but I am surprised by the vitriol towards a loyal Republican, the best person at attacking Democrats, and a natural leader. In the end, none of us should be making blanket statements of loyalty, we are still in the beggining.

Molon Labe!

"I have problems with Rudy too, as with most candidates that are not I, but if someone refuses to vote for Rudy even if he runs against Hillary, then that person has some type of personal issue we can not fix here."

Personal Issue? I haven't decided yet if I would vote for Giuliani if he were selected as the Republican candidate. I suspect that I would but it is still up in the air. The issue is that I define myself as a Social Conservative, not as a Republican. So I'll have to weigh the cost of having a social liberal as the figure head of the Republican party against the cost of 4 years with a Democratic President. It's not an easy decision to make, National Defense is important, but so is keeping our nation worthy of defense.

for "abortion"? because you can't say Rudy is for immorality. YOu should check out how he kicked out prostitutes, sex shows, etc from New York, at least the nice parts.

I think abortion folk need to get a broader perspective. Rudy says he will apoint strict contructionist judges such as Alito and Roberts, that is if he even gets a chance to make an appointment. If you are looking for a court that will ban abortion nationwide, it is just not going to happen. The best we can do, and the thing we should do, is rescind Roe v Wade.

Look, I am not the head of Rudy supporters, I am just saying we seem out of touch. The fact is Rudy is winning, and he has a very good chance of winning. Fred could perform greatly and take the lead, if he does, great, but the reality is that is at best an "unknown".

I think most Republicans are "social conservatives" if that means they believe in traditional values. But sometimes social conservative is a code word for big government. I think only those that want the Federal Government to tell us what to do will turn on Rudy over social issues.

Molon Labe!

Abortion, divorce, homosexuality, premarital sex, marriage, families, the role of churches in the public square, all of these are topics that I find to be important. And none of them are issues for which Giuliani could be considered as a potential figurehead for positive change. (With the exception possibly of the role of churches, I'm not familiar with his history in that regard).

I like the strict constructionist pledge, but that isn't the full story. Still, like I said, I suspect I'd probably vote for him in the end, but it'll be a vote against the Democrats not a vote for the Republicans and I don't think that's a good trend.

I admit I really like Rudy as a person. I wish he agreed with me on more issues. I think he is the best fighter we have, people will realize this after they see more (any)of Fred.

I am concerned about Rudy's statist tendencies and his pro gun control past. However, he will not make America unworthy of defending, he is not some cancer, he is a good man, we need more like him. Also, the War on Terror is the most important thing at this time, and there is no real proof that Rudy is any more to the left than GWB.

Molon Labe!

from the public square, i.e. city museums. He failed thanks to the courts, but he tried.

Just look at Governor Schwarzenegger (RiNO-Calif.)

HTML Help Central for Red Staters
I voted Harry Browne in 2000, but will never vote Ron Paul.

Sorry. I cannot vote for him if he moves right to win the nomination then left again once its done. I've had enough of that from RINOs/CINOs we currently have in government. I will not support that any further with my vote/consent.

And there are enough like me that it would likely cost Giuliani the election.

My issues are Federalism, Second Amendment, Culture of Life, control of our borders, and Islamist Fundamentalism's war on Western Civilization. Those matter. And of those, Guiliani only gets one of them right.

The shame of it is the Dems do not get any of those right.

If he can show that he has learned that Guns are not evil, Choice is for cigars not babies, a country that cannot control its borders ceases to be a country sooner or later, and that more big government is the problem not the solution, then he gets my vote.

If Giuliani moves right to win the nomination and stays there, then that's OK. But not if he moves back.

--
A liberal is a man who is willing to spend somebody else's money -- Carter Glass

We all know that Giuliani is not a social conservative - thats a given. But some of you continue to hold the belief that Giuliani is a fiscal conservative. I just don't see it.

Perhaps Giuliani is saying all the right things during the campaign, but his fiscal record in NYC is not exactly what I would call fiscally conservative. It was Giulaini who supported Mario Cuomo for governor because in Giulaini's eyes, George Pataki's tax cuts were considered "irresponsible". And it was Giulaini who left NYC in debt when leaving office.

I'm not an agent, I just write books

For the Pataki thing. But Rudy did cut spending, and he did cut a number of taxes. Remember, he was starting from within a big hole.

The city was in debt? Yeah, and it had a huge smoking hole in downtown too. Not that that's a complete explanation, but the point is that you can't just run with the lefty talking points about what constitutes a fiscal conservative (by that light, see how they rate Reagan).

"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill

" but the point is that you can't just run with the lefty talking points about what constitutes a fiscal conservative."

Thats true. I'm running with what I think is a fiscal conservative...and Rudy ain't it.

I'm not an agent, I just write books

What does it mean to be an effective economic/fiscal conservative other than cutting taxes and cutting spending? And bear in mind that these are things Rudy got done despite having to work with an arch-liberal Democratic City Council. He didn't have the luxury of casting symbolic votes.

"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill

Other than being Vice President perhaps, what better experience for being President exists than being a Governor? Yet you list both President Bush and Mitt Romney as "Phenoms" which you describe as those with thin experience or accomplishment.

As for accomplishments, given Romney's tremendous business success and his role in saving the Utah Olympics exactly what type of accomplishments are you looking for that the other candidates have yet Romney lacks?

It appears as if you wanted a negative bucket to throw Romney into so you just made one up.

Full disclosure: I'm a Romney fan with Thompson in second place.

Bush had more experience, but both were rather short on time in office, and neither had foreign policy experience or a public profile on foreign policy issues before the campaign.

The categories fit the general characteristics of candidates over the past seven decades; you Romney guys are way too sensitive. Anyway, I'd be less skeptical of Romney if he had served more than a single term.

exactly what type of accomplishments are you looking for that the other candidates have yet Romney lacks?

I'll refer you to Rudy's two hugely consequential terms as NYC Mayor.

"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill

"I'll refer you to Rudy's two hugely consequential terms as NYC Mayor."

Ok but that's Rudy, what about the rest? Are you claiming that they are all more accomplished than Romney or have better experience? What I'm getting at is this, if Romney's experience and accomplishments top most of the Republican field, then why are you using them as a negative characterization?

And historically, presidential candidates have served more than a single four-year term in public office. Bush was low on that scale, Romney is lower still.

"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill

Romney the Phenom? I have a hard time with that idea. Obama is definitely a rockstar, and appeals to people who are looking for a rockstar, namely the left. But Romney?

Of the Dems, Clinton and Edwards are the establishment candidates. Edwards has the unions and the socialists a la Kos kids, Clinton has all of the rest of the establishment. Obama is not an establishment candidate, and remains viable, sort of, due to his appeal.

Romney is the Republican establishment candidate. The Bush money lined up behind him, he has the press as much as any Republican has the press. Every Townhall contributer (can I say that here?) supports Romney. However, he does not a hearts and minds candidate. He has yet to break 15%, and I think he is unlikely to break 15%.

Romney is not a hearts and minds candidate. Simply put, he is not trusted. Is his abortion stance due to a conversion experience, other than being converted to a candidate? Ditto taxes. Ditto gun ownership. And where exactly does he stand on Iraq? How big a mess is it? Rudy and Fred have been forthright. Whatever it takes, however long it takes. Romney has yet to convince the rank and file that he can be trusted on defense.

Rudy is the breakout candidate. His 25% has been solid. Even those of us who wish he agreed with us on abortion or gun control know that Rudy will stand by his opinions. One small bobble on abortion, and he returned to what he is. There is no one stronger on defense or in opposition to terrorism. Being his own man has gained him much respect. Those of us who disagree with him can easily support him if he gets the nomination.

At some point, candidates start dropping out. Hunter, Huckabee, even McCain will be gone. The current great unaligned will start to align. It is not realistic to think that Romney picks up support when the seven dwarves drop out. If they wanted to support him, they would already support him. Most of the support for the seven dwarves is old school conservative who could not support Rudy or Romney, and to some extent, McCain.

Prediction: Rudy goes to 30-35% max. Even if us old cons like him, Fred doesn't have the baggage or the liberal history. Fred gets to 50-55% max. At best, Romney stays locked in McCain territory at 15%, or starts to lose support. More likely Romney ends up at 10% or less.

 
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