The Downside of Being Catholic
defending asshats still leaves you feeling dirty
By streiff Posted in 2008 | Obamafiles — Comments (16) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Obama's family history, real or imagined, has been the subject of some discussion.
Earlier today I posted on the subject and made, as it turns out, the gross error of quoting TalkLeft
"My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain."
Here is the WWII Kansas Veterans Index. His grandfather, Stanley A. Dunham, enlisted in the Army on June 18 1942, six months after Pearl Harbor.
Now I'm placed in the awkward position of coming to the defense of Barack Obama. TalkLeft, relying on a transcribed World War II veterans index gets it wrong.
According to World War II Army enlistment records, available free at Ancestry.com (no I don't own stock), Obama's grandfather, Stanley A Dunham, enlisted on 18 January 1942, not 18 June. So while he might not have enlisted the "day after" Pearl Harbor, he did enlist "after the holidays." I can't say that I blame him, either.
On the other hand, the same record set shows that no Charles W Payne, or permutation thereof, entered the Army from Kansas up until 1946.
And, of course, another problem is that Stanley Dunham does not appear on the roster of 89th Infantry Division.
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The Downside of Being Catholic 16 Comments (0 topical, 16 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
I don't think that the fact that Obama did not serve is an issue. While military service is a plus I think, there are a lot of other things that are a plus as well. I think the larger issue is, did you do something useful with your life? The last two Presidents did not serve either, and whatever you think of them I don't think that fact makes them bad Presidents, or even worse Presidents.
Obama turned 18 in 1979 - not when there were any wars going on. It is not like he dodged the draft or something.
When a Dem says "such-and-such Republican supports the War but was never in the military" y'all cry foul. If military service doesn't matter in that instance why should it matter for the Presidency in general?
And before you claim that this is not military service, I should remind you that this would come as some surprise to the ANG servicemen and women currently deployed in combat.
At any rate, it's no doubt a valid point - but I suggest that you take it up with the Democrats, so as to get them to apologize for trying to play chickenhawk games with us for the last eight years. Our sympathy well is currently quite dry on this issue, you see.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
It's not like Dems, especially anti-war Liberal Democrats such as myself, are not attacked in an ad hominem manner either. It all comes with the territory.
'Not a draft dodger' => Above average candidate
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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
I don't think that it makes him an above average candidate...more like 'not a draft dodger' => 'no statement on candidate's strength.' I never said that this all makes Obama a good candidate, just that it is not a strike against him.
Obama's Great Uncle may have been at Buchenwald with the 89th ID. I know my wife's Grandfather served in Naples Foggia, Rome-Arno, Southern France and Rhineland. He was wounded in the Battle of Huertgen Forest right after the Bulge. He claimed he was 4th Army but went into Bastogne with or right behind Patton. Her Great Uncle was in Bastogne with the Airborne and was wounded during the siege and they saw each other...He was wounded in Feburary at Huertgen when his tank was hit by either a German Tank or anti-tank weapon and exploded. I have seen his discharge papers and they do not mention either 4th or 3rd Army...basically it states he was a Tank driver and the campaigns he was in and the date of his injury. Now maybe Obama's Great Uncle was at Buchenwald but not with the 89th ID but a detached or supporting unit. Who knows...Only Mr. Payne knows that for certain. I do not think you can gainsay the story with any accuracy.
“Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.” - Ronald Reagan
At least that is the best information that Dan Riehl can find in Kansas geneological records. Link No wonder the dude suffered PTSD. Just imagine the trauma of traveling via battleship across land-locked Germany to a Nazi concentration camp.
Extreme taxation, excessive controls, oppressive government competition with business … frustrated minorities and forgotten Americans are not the products of free enterprise.Ronald Reagan
. . . but what the blank does this story (Obama's grandfather or uncle supposedly single-handedly winning WWII) have to do with being Catholic? Was this headline supposed to go with some other story?
Crime never takes a holiday.
what does being Catholic have to do with anything here? The closest I can see is the holiday reference, which doesn't make any sense if you say that the title refers to that. Please explain.
"Hey, I call 'em like I see 'em. I'm a whale biologist."
Being a Catholic he felt it necessary to assuage his guilt and fix the story.
Now also found at The Minority Report
when the truth is better, so I don't care much about what Obama's great-something or other did or didn't do. It's obvious enough what he is and isn't that his ancestry doesn't much matter to me.
That said, it is damnably difficult to know where a particular soldier was at any given time in any war; much of the time the soldier himself doesn't know. Even in the high-tech military of today, a combat level soldier's knowledge is pretty much limited to what he can see around him.
It's pretty easy to establish where a regiment, brigade, or division was and what it was doing. Getting below that level is tough. Getting down to the company, platoon, and individual soldier level is almost impossible. Soldiers are sick, sent on errands, detailed out, get lost, go AWOL, all sorts of things, and unless you can get into unit level logs that may or may not exist or personal correspondence, it is almost impossible to establish where someone was at some particular time.
In Vino Veritas
While I am fully behind all attempts to bring the truth to bear in this situation, a non-listing in ancestry.com is of no real weight, their military records being an incomplete set.
soli Deo gloria
That he never served himself. Whenever he is asked about military service he talks about his grandfather or great uncle, and ducks away from talking about himself. Having rlatives who served admirably in WWII, or other wars, is not that exceptional. I think most people have a relative who served.