Redstate

They don't give a rip about what the UN or the International Community thinks. With any luck they will flatten Mogadishu and go home.
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If "pro" is the opposite of "con", what is the opposite of "progress"?

"We are not going to fight for Mogadishu to avoid civilian casualties..."

sigh...to allow our warriors to be warriors again...sigh...

What we do in life echoes in eternity.
-Maximus Decimus Meridius

Why so many people long for the days of brutality.

If Ethiopia does indeed take Mogadishu they are likely going to do some very very bad things there. Wanton killing and absolute brutality will be the order of the day most likely.

We try to avoid killing civilians because WE CAN. And because that is the Christian thing to do.

"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw

you are either dreaming or in denial that "bad things" aren't already happening there at the hands of the ICU. Innocent people are being tortured and murdered in the name of coercion to conversion...and the extremist intimidations of the ICU trying to oppress the Somalis who will defer to anyone who will keep them fed and not dead if they capitulate to the guys with the AK-47s...

Ethiopia is, allegedly, working with the accepted and acknowledged government to take back control of their country. They will protect and defend the government so long as their sovereignty remains intact, and a peaceful accord is carried out that keeps it that way.

I don't know about anyone else, but I for one don't "long for the days of brutality"...I long for the days where we arrest, or blow up and destroy those who DO commit such acts.

The TFG and Ethiopia are the good guys here..the ICU the bad ones. Remember that.

What we do in life echoes in eternity.
-Maximus Decimus Meridius

and I understand why Ethiopia will do what it will do. Ethiopia doesn't have the 4th Infantry Division or the 1st Armored Division much less a single F-16. They are REQUIRED to fight at a more brutal level, as we have been required to do so in past wars.

My point is that there is reason why we are not like that. While there would, indeed, be a certain level of satisfaction to see the United States, the most powerful force mankind has ever wielded, unleashed the hounds of Hell upon those who would do evil on the world, we must temper that sentiment with the understanding that doing so results in a lot of innocent people being killed. And by innocent I don't refer to those who meekly accept the will of the more powerful among them who then commit unspeakable horror on the world.

I speak of the 4 year old Iraqi boy who is just learning to speak. I speak of the 7 year old Afghani girl who hasn't even learned of the oppression that some of her fellow Afghanis wish to burden her with. I speak of the 13 year old Somali who is far more interested in playing football than in engaging in the world of politics and war and violence.

I am not naive. I understand that innocent blood often is shed in order to save far more. But I will never accept that this is the righteous course. But, sadly, the righteous course is rarely available.

But I hope that we can all agree that limiting our military from doing all it can do isn't necessarily a terrible thing.

"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw

We go to war, or do not go to war, upon a calculation: will the loss of our civilians and property, military personnel and equipment be worth what we gain?

There is a hierarchy of values at work here. Just as we will spend money to save property, and spend property to save land, and spend soldiers to save civilians, we also spend civilian lives to achieve freedom for those left.

I'm not sure how many Ethiopian servicemen I would sacrifice to save a Somalian six-year-old, especially if it meant allowing the Islamic cancer to spread. Allowing the jihadists to use civilians as shields ends up killing more people, and could end up enslaving the world.

So feel for the poor innocents; that's just what the jihadists are counting on. They will use your emotions to enslave those poor innocents, whom your paralyzing empathy will have condemned.

end up being longer, more painful wars for everyone.

Get in, kill people, break things, defeat the enemy, rebuild and move on... anything else is arrogant foolishness.

It's not pretty, but the point is to win, while at the same time letting everyone else know you are not to be trifled with.

All the dithering and handwringing makes you look weak and emboldens your enemies.

will result in the death of millions. Again.

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

does not mean we are better equipped to fight this type of war than the Ethiopians without being brutal. We are fighting the same enemy who is using the same tactics. If our big weapons made the difference, then why haven't we already won in Iraq? Because you have pangs of conscious about using the very weaponry that you claim should keep us from using brutality.

And the bottom line here is that this is more than a skirmish in a couple second rate African countries that nobody cares about. It's an extension of the War on Terror Islamofacists which happens to be a global war.

Today we've got the Islamic Courts guys in Mogadishu who, in their spare time, are beheading nuns and snatching people out of porn theaters and executing them. We've got the insurgents Islamofacist terrorists in Iraq blowing up innocent Muslims so they can wear down the NYT and the congressional Democrats. We've got Hezbollah paying folks Islamofacists in Gaza to lob rockets into Israel. We've got Iran paying Hezbollah and Hamas to murder Israelis. We've got homegrown Muslims blowing themselves up in subways in London and Madrid. We've got outraged Muslims demonstrating, burning cars and killing people because a Danish newspaper printed some pictures of Mohamed. I could go on but I'm depressed.

If we - as in the West - don't stand up and declare REAL war against these murderers Peoria will look like Mogadishu. Well maybe not Peoria, but Detroit will. One of these days people are going to understand that Islam is serious about the war they've declared on us. And, too bad, but we need to respond in kind. Only when "peaceful Muslims" understand that they will have a bigger problem with us than they've got with the Islamofacists will we begin to make headway. And the only way to do that is to flatten a few cities that are harboring them. I've got a personal stake in my next comment, but I would rather flatten the entire al Anbar province in Iraq than write one more condolence letter to a Marine Corps family. I've written too many already.

I will be really clear. I don't care how many Muslims die in Mogadishu. They welcomed the ICC, now they get to pay the price. I'm good with the city disappearing off the face of the earth. Hopefully, that will be a line in the sand that folks in that region understand. They certainly don't seem to understand that we are putting our lives on the line so they don't have to live in terror, maybe they'll understand the Ethiopians better.

And, if they do understand the Ethiopians better, we should hire some Ethiopian generals.
_______________________________
If "pro" is the opposite of "con", what is the opposite of "progress"?

What we do in life echoes in eternity.
-Maximus Decimus Meridius