"Is your hatred for George Bush so great that you prefer to see millions of civilians suffer just to prove him wrong?"
I *wish* that it wasn't a rhetorical question.
By Moe Lane Posted in Foreign Affairs — Comments (28) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Iraqpundit (Via Ace, Via Jules Crittenden).
I know those who are wedded to the idea of a failed Iraq are calling me a deluded idiot and worse. But things are improving slowly. My relatives in Baghdad say there's no comparison; things are much better than they were six months ago. They can visit friends in different areas and walk about the neighbourhood in the evening.
Frankly, I don't understand why so many mock us for wanting a future for Iraq. Is your hatred for George Bush so great that you prefer to see millions of civilians suffer just to prove him wrong?
It really comes down to this: you are determined to see Iraq become a permanent hellhole because you hate Bush. And we are determined to see Iraq become a success, because we want to live.
The answer to his question is, of course: yes, there are people whose hatred is so great. But don't worry. I'm sure that soon enough there'll be sufficient terrorist attacks in Iraq to keep the antiwar movement from having to think too hard about the consequences of their choices; or, indeed, from having to think at all.
And I leave you with this thought. Remember: Not In Their Names.
Moe Lane
PS: That wasn't hatred on my part, by the way. That was "contempt." Hatred implies fear. Contempt can make do with elemental revulsion.
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"Is your hatred for George Bush so great that you prefer to see millions of civilians suffer just to prove him wrong?" 28 Comments (0 topical, 28 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
rhetoric that is spewed.. If they really just wanted the Iraqi people to step up (and win), they would give them the time necessary - at least a reasonable time... Now that progress is being made, they have to push quickly to allow their agenda to be perceived as valid (ie. Bush was wrong, we can't win). They want to remove our troops BEFORE the Iraqi people can take over so that Bush and the Republicans are disgraced politically - what a grand anti-US plan they (you) push...
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
George Bush
Capitalism
Democracy
Personal Liberty
God
Christianity
Judeaism
and
Anything that "they" are not in charge of.
“As long as men and nations are aware of their divine origin, that human beings are a reflection of the source of all life, then it follows that it is the beholden duty of man to increase goodness, beauty, truth and peace in the world. But when men and nations deny the relationship of man to the divine, then the soil is fertile for the growth of hatred, injustice, strife and war.”
Joseph Zeitlin
and when does the clock start
I take issue with the phrase "now that progress is being made", progress has always been made however small, however incremental.
I also don't know why I'm being blamed for a "grand anti-US plan"
If you do not recognize the "major" progress made in the last 2-3 months then you are either ignoring the news (easy if you only read the MSM pages), or you are still hoping for the worst. Unfortunately, most of the left thinks that if progress is not obviously noticeable within a year or so (ie., as reported in the N.Y. Times), we should pull out and surrender.
Good thing that things changed after the Second World War...otherwise, we would have lost that one also. I don't blame you, just put you with the other "have we lost yet" crowd - always looking for someone or something to blame and a reason to pull out the troops (French maybe?).
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
thank you for the "major" progress clarification. I consider the last 4 years to have some siginificant progress as well, but that's just me.
but the last few months have been exceptional and I think that you know that. I also think that you realize that the lefts response to any progress has been dismal... So.. just what is your problem with the post?
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
It was more of a sensitivity to my friends and relatives who have served in Iraq and have made great efforts to help rebuild. I didn't want their efforts to be written off because they didn't occur during the last 4 months. Therefore I took issue with your statement of "progress occurring now". So my appologies.
Bush has never lied to you. Shortly after 911 he told the nation that the jihadists would take decades to defeat and would be fought on many fronts. We started in Afghanistan in 2002 and have killed thousands of the enemy in the region since then while we have remained safe here at home.
All this while the anti war crowd have fought against us here at home. How about "the clock starts" dizney when you decide we can't have anymore 911's and start to support the GWOT.
Who said Bush lied to me?
Yes I remember the speech well, but it's not really relevant to what I was talking about.
I'm interested in the Iraqi people taking charge.
especially since they have lived for decades under authoritarian rule. It does take some exceptional bravery to step forward to fight a war against those that would kill you and your family without regret and they seem to persist regardless of the dangers. Surely you can understand the problems that they face in Iraq. I would wish that a tenth of the US would be as brave (not holding my breath). Those that do serve in the military are wonderful people and should be treated with much respect.
You are very lucky not to be in their shoes...
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
" I'm sure that soon enough there'll be sufficient terrorist attacks in Iraq to keep the antiwar movement from having to think too hard about the consequences of their choices; or, indeed, from having to think at all."
I think we're closer to normalcy in Iraq than any of us could have imagined just a few months ago.
And now the challenge is going to be rebuilding our forces for the long term.
Bush-haters aside, the American public needs to be convinced that the financial cost of the effort will be worth it. I don't believe that any candidate is going to speak about those costs until after the '08 election.
...how closely at least some of us on the other side of the debate were following the reasoning, planning, and operations involved in Iraq.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
We're never going to convince the anti-Bush folks of how well Iraq is going or even that there was much "reasoning,planning" involved in the operations so far.
Let's start talking to the majority of Americans, the skeptical but reasonable majority, who can now see that Iraq has turned a corner.
Violence is down and new alliances are forming. Celebrate that and build upon it.
The next step is to prepare for the work ahead. I'd like to hear more from McCain on what we need for further progress in Iraq. As prez or not, McCain will be much needed as a leader for the strategies we need now.
This is about going up to a certain segment of the American Left and metaphorically pounding on them until we've broken their hearts and made them run*.
If they want quarter now, they should have offered some last year.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
*Thank you, SM Stirling.
" I'm sure that soon enough there'll be sufficient terrorist attacks in Iraq to keep the antiwar movement from having to think too hard about the consequences of their choices; or, indeed, from having to think at all."
I think we're closer to normalcy in Iraq than any of us could have imagined just a few months ago.
Aren't the above comments contradictory? Yes, there may always be a few terrorist attacks in Iraq - so there will be in the U.S. unfortunately. Don't forget about the rest of Europe also...
Yes, we do need to rebuild our military. If we can just convince Congress to forgo their PORK for a couple of years, that will add billions to the defense fund. Mercy, the corruption in our government is getting so out of hand!
Yes, I believe that peace in the Middle East is worth every penny spent. You may disagree on where it is spent, but it is worth it. If there is going to be any peace in this decade (or longer), it will require a peaceful Middle East.
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
just led them to muster 40 votes against the confirmation of a guy CHUCK SCHUMER recommended for Attorney General (and don't think Schumer wouldn't have been #41 had his own words not roped even a weasel like him in so completely).
yes, their hatred is complete.
fortunately, I think their hate will get them exactly what it did in 2004 (perhaps not in the Senate, where we're just defending too much ground). We all know where Master Yoda said hate leads. And they're in an awful hurry getting there.
To suggest that everyone ( about 60% of the country) who opposes the war does so solely because they "hate Bush" a ridiculous, shopworn canard at this point. But that doesn't mean we won't keep hearing it.
Swell. Keep on supporting the troops, sporto.
-------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
The antiwar movement does not speak for whatever percentage "opposes the war": it speaks for a much smaller, much viler subset within that percentage.
You think I'm wrong? Prove it. End the war.
Moe
PS: Not In Your Name, Jason Wolf.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
My concern has always been with the foreign policy of George Bush, not the man. His policy of being the worlds' unilateral police agency is the worry.
We seem to have forgotten where the borders of the United States lie. Now we have the long term welfare of a failed middle easern state as a long term responsibility. At a cost approaching one trillion dollars which we have to borrow.
That seems like cause for some rational concern not based on a personal dislike of an indivdual. No?
and frankly you look like a closet case of moRONism. Come out, come out, we know you're in there. Just say the magic name now.
...............................
"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it."
--Rudy Giuliani
Because if you're not, then this:
"We seem to have forgotten where the borders of the United States lie. Now we have the long term welfare of a failed middle easern state as a long term responsibility. At a cost approaching one trillion dollars which we have to borrow"
is inane*. We have had the "long term welfare of a failed: state" in Germany, Japan and Korea for over 60 years! They were "failed states" when we "occupied" them long ago. But now they are no longer failed states. In fact, each is a free, 1st world nation.
And had we not spent our blood and treasure - each would be failed state or dictatorship. Period.
Stop looking out 5 months and start looking out 5 - 10 years. Had you looked at Japan and Germany circa 1952, you'd have wanted to quit there too.
Get some historical perspective on what Iraq will probably be - if we stay the course!
* if you're over 25, I should think you have been around long enough to know that each of these countries that we occupied after a successful war took many, many years, and lots of money and support, to get them where they are today.
and more to do with wanting the Iraqi people to take charge.