Time to ditch the Absolut for Grey Goose or Kettle One

By Erick Posted in Comments (187) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »

Thanks to Steve Foley for bringing this to my attention. Down in Mexico, Absolut Vodka has a new advertising campaign that will no doubt send Paul Cella and others into fits of rage -- and with cause.

I assume they didn't think we, up here above the Rio Grande, would take notice. But apparently, in Absolut's vision, the world would be better off if Mexico took back the West. Perhaps they might first want to pay more attention to the Islamic encroachment on Sweden.

Time to pour the Absolut down the drain. The brand from my beloved Sweden will have to be replaced. Below is the actual ad.

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Oh well, al Sweden won't be making Absolut much longer anyway. Just out of curiosity, when they're forced to pray to Mecca, will they pray to the east or to the southeast? They are in no position to be dissing us, we won the southwest fair and square after Santa Anna invaded US territory.
Tim Schieferecke

I posted this on Red State this morning. If you want some addresses to email to so that we might alert the Absolut folks to our thoughts, check out my RedState blog here...

http://www.redstate.com/blogs/publiusforum/2008/apr/04/time_warner_vodka...

the biggest consumer market in the world.

But, what do I know.



Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.

I live in Texas and yet I can't bring myself to be outraged about this. It's just a dumb billboard ad in Mexico, and not a very potent or serious political statement.

It's a very big deal! There are millions of people that want the southwest US back. Maybe you should pay attention to the news a little more!
Tim Schieferecke

What do you think the chances are that Mexico is going to be able to reclaim the Southwest US? Probably not so good, wouldn't you say?

I am on the fence (no pun intended) on the immigration debate. At the very least I have a lot of sympathy for the position that are immigration laws should matter even if I don't always agree with them.

But the hard core anti-immigration bloc really shoots itself in the foot by trying to hype the "Reconquista" stuff because most people are smart enough to recongnize it for what it is: craziness spouted by a few loud wackos.

For what it's worth, I live in a southern part of a border state (AZ), speak spanish, and do volunteer work that brings me into close contact with literally hundreds of immigrants, many of them not here legally. I also have several friends of Mexican descent whose families have been here for two or three generations. I could count the number of times I've ever heard mention of "La Reconquista" using the fingers on just one hand, and on each of those occasions it was just said in jest.

If you were to pick any random mexican immigrant and try to engage him in a conversation about the prospect of Mexico reclaiming the Southwestern United States he would look at you like you had three eyes.

-exits

While it is self evident that they'll never retake the southwest, it only takes one loon to blow up a building or sneak islamic terrorists across the border to get even. That the US "stole" the southwest is taught in Mexican school textbooks.
Tim Schieferecke

IS emboldening potential terrorists of an as of yet unformed terrorist organization?

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

, they have found information written in Arabic, they are coming in through Mexico with the aid of gangs like MS13. You really ought to read the news a little more.
Tim Schieferecke

humans over the southern border. Are you saying that there are NO Mexicans that belong to MS13? You are a fool.
Tim Schieferecke

You are the one who needs to prove your point. Here is the wikipedia entry for the gang. No mention of Mexicans being members.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_Salvatrucha

No Mexicans in MS13.

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Although Salvadorans, Guatemalans, and Hondurans started MS-13 the gang widely excepts all South American ethnicities -- in fact it's common knowledge here in CA that MS-13 works with and recruits Mexican gang members. MS-13 is also closely related to the Mexican Mafia though historical drug distribution agreements/alliances hence the "13" a gang can only take the number 13 after getting permission from the Mexican Mafia or "La eMe" (Spanish for the letter "M") 13 for the the corresponding letter/number in the alphabet!

Google is your friend

Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Editor for The Hinzsight Report

Crap. I could've just gone to the wiki page, too.

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___________________________________________________________

Molon Labe!

is emboldening Mideast terrorist by using this advertising scheme?

Not sure why Salvadorans would be interested in Mexico taking back half of Central America and Western United States. I always thought that MS13 was mostly interested in running drugs and other illicit money making schemes.

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

You are claiming that this advertisement somehow encourages Mexicans to engage in terrorism in order to retake the America Southwest.

MS13 has absolutely no interest in that sort of thing as an organization. And just because there are Mexicans in that organization does not, in fact, make MS13 any more interested in this.

Your argument is like saying that since there are some Irish in the Mafia that means they support Irish reunification. Makes no sense.

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

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Someone needs to provide a cite offering proof that they transport terrorists across our borders.

Where did I say that? I thought I described MS13 as...

I always thought that MS13 was mostly interested in running drugs and other illicit money making schemes.

You guys are really trying very hard to make this argument about something other than the original point, which was that this ad incites Mexicans to become terrorists in order to reclaim the American Southwest.

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

I'll detail it out a little more for you.

MS13 traffics both illegal drugs and humans across the Mexican border. Some of these humans are islamofascists who view the Mexican border as the easiest way to make it into the US without being detected. In order to cross said border without being harassed by the Federales, MS13 has to pay off said Federales who are well aware of their evil deeds. The Federales, who are by all accounts Mexican, have been indoctrinated in Mexican schools to believe that the US stole the southwest. Said Federales are either ambivalent to the trafficing of islamofascists or they support it by their inaction coupled with the requisite 30 pieces of silver.
Tim Schieferecke

Do you have any proof of this? The only islamofascist that's been caught trying to cross the border was caught in Washington State. Is there an Inuit version of M13 that perhaps is bribing the Mounties who have been indoctinated in the ideology that claims that the US stole Alaska and is still sore about the Americans chasing the Brits into Canada during the Revolutionary War?

And, in point of fact, some of them are telling themselves that we really just leased the place from them, and they should get it back.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

...are mildly alarming. That Zhirinovsky guy sounds like a real piece of work.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

and others. He does such a good job with Chavez, it would be fascinating.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=17585

You should really try knowing what you're talking about rather then talking out of your @ss.
Tim Schieferecke

back for tomorrow in case KU loses or wins against them Tar Heels. Can't wait!
Tim Schieferecke

... people will learn not to argue with flyerhawk.

On the one hand flyerhawk has never been known to be wrong about anything /sarc

On the otherhand, flyerhawk makes a career of picking up even the slightest, inconsequential error and using it to anchor his challenge. MS13 is an example --- because you misstate the involvement of MS13 flyerhawk uses that to argue that any argument anyone makes about the border is falacious.

Just stop responding to him, its a waste of energy.

John
----------
Why would God invent something like whiskey? To keep the Irish from ruling the world of course

He continues to make false statements about MS13 and defend them yet I am the one at fault for pointing that out. God forbid you or other Conservatives tell him that he is wrong.

My argument remains the same. It is wholly ridiculous to argue that radical Mexicans are looking for excuses to start a war of terrorism against the United States in order to retake Southwest America. And nothing that has been said here has changed that basic point.

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

... but you never just point out someone's error, you build an entire world view around it. You are right, some things never change.

John
----------
Why would God invent something like whiskey? To keep the Irish from ruling the world of course

http://www.house.gov/mccau/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf

Whether MS13's intent is malicious terrorism or malicious opportunism in making an extra buck off of guiding islamofascists into our land of milk and honey, it is happening!
Tim Schieferecke

People who take this lightly are naive. Ideas like this never gain general support at first. Liberals and radicals plant the seeds and let it grow. Dumb and naive conservatives do not nip it in the bud. It's not about the landscape today. It's about how it will fester over a generation or two if ignored by weak and naive conservatives. Liberals always fight culture wars like this and they often win becasue no one want s to beleive it is real at the time. Thirty years from now we'll be wondering what the hell happened to our country. All we'll have to do is look how we let these radicals take root unabated.

Second, it's not about Mexican terrorists. The real threat is from within. Are Bloc Quebecois terrorists? Do you really want America partioned like Canada? There are many ways to undermine U.S. legal and territorial sovreignty without using violence. If a full one-third of our country pledged allegiance to a foreign flag, do people really think that would be no big deal?

Sneaking islamofascists into America via Mexico with the aid of willing opportunist gangs and hate America sympathizers is a reality. Please open your eyes.
Tim Schieferecke

Tell me the last time a Mexican blew up a building in the US? Last time I checked, the only building destruction has happened at the hands of Islamic Fundamentalists and wacky uber right wing Americans.

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How soon we forget

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

But either way, waaaaayyyy right wing. Which doesn't, by the way, mean he was a conservative.

Only in Communist propaganda are Nazis anything but socialists with a different boundary line drawn.

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This is why I go for the "centralized government control" vs. "libertarian" distinction.

If you're going to go for the "people on my side are responsible for everything good and people on your side are responsible for people like FDR, Hitler, and Stalin" argument, go for it all the way!

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

Nazis are as collectivist as Commies, BM. They just divide us up into 'races' instead of 'classes', and they coopt corporations into the state instead of dissolving them. It's Communism made more workable becuase it lets you join with your neighbors instead of with 'workers' in other countries.

And yes, I have evidence now that he was a Hitler worshipper. At least according to CNN, he was a purveyor of the Turner Diaries, the book that inspired and documented the mechanism of the OKC attack, and that is a fantasy of global thermonuclear 'race' war.

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In what way were the Nazis collectivists?

Nationalism and collectivism are NOT the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. The Nazis were EXTREME nationalists. However the only property they seized was the property of undesirable minority groups such as the Jews and gypsies or those who opposed Third Reich ambitions.

The only way you are argue that the Nazis were NOT right wing is you are working on an axis of government vs anarchy in which all forms of coercive government is left wing and all forms of anarchic existence. However that really would make some strange bedfellows.

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

The Nazis seized any property belonging to someone they didn't like. The concept of private property as we know it did not exist and personal property could be confiscated at the whim of the state.

Please try again.


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

You know the United States has done the EXACT same thing several times in our history, right?

FTR, I believed I explicitly stated that the Nazis seized property whenever they so chose to.

As I said, if you wish to make the Left/Right axis be statist vs anarchist, then fine. Seems a pretty silly distinction which essentially does nothing other than lumping Communists, Fascists, Monarchists, Autocrats, and Theocrats together and portraying the right wing as only representing liberty and freedom. But if your objective is to eschew any sort of negative connotation to the Right, I guess I can understand your reasoning.

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

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If you feel the U.S. is comparable to NAZI Germany its not surprising you like Obama and don't find the Rev. Wright disturbing.


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

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Yes that is what I'm doing. Equating the Nazis to America.

San Dimas Football Rules!!!!

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

What is the flipping difference between a Communist state where the factories are all officially under a government five year plan, and a Nazi state where the factories are 'owned' by men who are wearing SS uniforms and worked by government-captured slave labor?

What is the flipping difference between a Communist state that puts controls on every aspect of life, including banning all opposing political parties, in order to protect 'class' interests, and a Nazi state that does the same to protect 'race' and national interests?

It's the same ideas, the same techniques,and the same results for the people. The only difference is in who's the boogeyman.

I find it utterly fascinating that you find nationalism such a distinguishing feature that you use it to separate right from left.

So are you a left-winger flyerhawk,a nd if so, doesn't taht mean by your own definition of right-wing that you have no loyalty to America, but rather to some cosmopolitan ideology?

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Patriotism is fine with me. Nationalism as a political movement, however, is pretty disturbing. It has historically led to some pretty ugly stuff when taken to its extremes.

You seem determined to conflate tactics with philosophy. The objectives of Fascism and Communism are fundamentally different. Fascism believes that the state exists above all else and that all citizens of the state should work to further the state. Communists believe that the state is a mechanism to protect the proletariat, or working class, from the abuses of the oligarchical forces of the state.

As with most isms when fanatics embrace those isms and implement them they tend to result in ugly abusive environments. But that does not make them the same.

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

Only rhetoric counts?

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You are talking about effects of policy.

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

Follow me here.

absentee

called a right winger. You're still a fool.
Tim Schieferecke

The People's Republic of China is a Democracy as well?

Fascism is not Socialism

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

they are. Nazis and facists are right wing. Extreme right wing. Here's another news flash. Liberals are not communists and most aren't even socialists. Communists are extreme left wingers. So, please stop getting your education from Jonah Goldberg and pick up a few books now and then, Mr T.

The fact that you call socialist, militarist, collectivist, racist, statists right-wing because they don't hate their country, is awfully messed up.

Do you define left/right solely by love of country? Because that's the only thing separating fascism from communism.

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I guess by that definition, I'm a fascist so is almost every person in almost every nation on earth. Do you think that leftists don't love their country? Weird. By the way, here's a handy definition of fascist. Not the only one, for certain, but a good one. Obviously there are characteristics that apply to far left wing governments. At the end of the day, neither far right nor far left governments can survive without a great deal of authoritarianism because free people do not want any part of that type of governance in the long run.

Fascism: Fascism is an authoritarian ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers the individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole. Fascists seek to forge a type of national unity, usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, racial, and/or religious attributes. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: patriotism, nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, autocracy and opposition to political and economic liberalism.

Fascism is an authoritarian ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers the individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole.

And this defers from Communism, how? For all that Fascism technically allows private property and private business, the state controls everything, including pricing, corporate leadership, profits shareholders are allowed to keep, etc.

The only difference between Communism and Fascism for the man living under either system is rhetoric, otherwise they're just the same thing.

Romney/Pace 2008

to ensure no armed conflict ever gets north of the Rio Grande.

In fact, between Texas and Arizona my guess is they will have to opt for Southern California and threaten the Condor population to at least get San Francisco.

"Nec Aspera Terrent"
bene ambula et redambula
Contributor to The Minority Report

It's full of Texans and young men and women from all over this country of every race, color, ethnicity and creed. They will protect us from any invasion from the South. Even the imaginary one that some on this board contemplate.

.... Really... OK

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and if it could be limited to just Berkeley, I could be persuaded...

Obviously Mexico isn't going to take back the southwest by force. Everyone knows that. The problem is that a lot of mexicans do hold a grudge over what happened to the southwest. If we fail the assimilate the mexican-americans already in this country and also fail to put a stop to illegal immigration we will be looking at a situation where large parts of the southwest are culturally and economically different then the rest of the country. Similar to Serbia and Kosovo, and we know what happened there...

The company would not have made the ad if it didnt think it would help sales which means that a part of mexico is still bitter about then loss of the southwest.

If you dont think a demographic change can lead to independence of a region look at how we got texas in the first place...

And the girls will never look better.


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

This is a pretty great response I found over at Q&O (Scroll Down).

http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=8245

In the first one they left out a lot of blue.


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

that this is the first use of the phrase "my beloved Sweden" here on RS.

"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill

i would suggest Stolichnaya vodka from Russia.

you know, some americans wonder why the russians are regarded as heavy drinkers; 8 years of democratic presidential and congressional control may help us understand.

Of course not, Jeff. I think we can agree that there is a difference. I also would laugh at an Absolut ad that had the Stars and Stripes flying over all of North America.

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Also, it's an ad for Mexicans published in Mexico. I think it's borderline offensive especially when you make the small leap to the ad that Jeff posted above with Hitler. However, I'm willing to give Absolut and Mexicans the benefit of the doubt.

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Where is this coming from? I know I've been gone a few weeks but what happened?

Absolut would go out of business, because everyone would drink wine. And there would be plenty of time to do that, because everyone would be on strike.

I just spent a week in Spain and it really surprised me how much the old wine culture has transformed into a new beer culture. There are "cervecerias" everywhere and I don't thikn I saw anyone under the age of 50 drinking wine. Has anyone been to Italy lately? Is it similar there or is wine still supreme?

Fort Collins, CO.

"After two years in Washington, I often long for the realism and sincerity of Hollywood." -Fred Dalton Thompson

I was recently in Italy, in Rome and Florence. I saw wine being drunk everywhere, but a fair share of beer as well. I don't remember seeing anyone drinking beer with dinner, but often saw it at lunch. Maybe it's a trend now.

Hitler wanted the Baltics and most of Russia. He was a little fuzzy on what to do with the Balkans and Greece... IIRC, he'd have the Italians rule them (for awhile, at least)

Iberia, Italy, Greece, Croatia, and Albania should be Yellow. Everything else should be Blue.

;)

I didn't make the map, I just posted it because I think it makes a good point.

Ask not what I can do for my country, ask what my country can do for me. Washington Elected Elite

Actually, Erick, in that advert you'd think that Absolut was really from Venezuela....

But to heck with Sweden (and Russia). Why don't we traffic in vodka from friendly countries?

The last time I looked, I've got six different varieties in the freezer, and a few more stacked up elsewhere awaiting their turn (since there's no more room in the freezer). I know, I'm spoiled since my business takes me to eastern Europe very frequently so I get to troll for the good vodkas, which are difficult (if not impossible) to get over here. Self-importing is the best kind of importing.

But I'll cite four that some of the big-city types just might be able to find.

Probably my standing favorite is Viru Valge from Estonia. Very, very clean and smooth. A lovely spirit, particularly if you like your vodka very smooth (rather than with an edge).

The other three are from Ukraine.

A very nice one is Volodar from L'viv. It's also very clean, but it has a bit of an edge on it - which some people really seem to love (all testing done at Skanderbeg Labs).

Another is Nemiroff Premium from Kharkov. (Be sure to get the premium, not the regular). Very clean, not quite the sharp edge of the Volodar.

But if you want a real sleeper that's coming up the ladder very quickly, that would be Khortytsya from Zaporozhye. I'd never heard of this one until it was forced upon me last year over there. It comes in two varieties - Platinum and Sribna (Silver). The platinum is very smooth, the silver has a bit of an edge (again, preference on that matter is an individual choice). But it's absolutely (!) outstanding stuff. And it quickly gained a reputation as the "no headache" vodka (this is true). Great stuff.

If you can find any of these, you're in for a real treat.

I suggest as alternatives to Absolut:

Wyborowa Exquisite
Chopin
Snow Leopard
Luksusowa
Alchemia

The Russians didn't make their vodka. The Poles made it for them. Their bicycles, too. And we dug their coal.

Remember -- Comrades after being Untermenschen! ;)

I know it's French, but...

But if you're looking for a connoiseurship, give at least one of those brands a try also.

:)

I'll take the unusual step of seconding that.

I never cared much for vodka until I got "over there" and ran into the good stuff. Too much of the vodka on offer over here is not much above rubbing alcohol....

New Yorker actually. He just wanted the cachet of a French Vodka.
====
"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -- James Madison

Back in 2004, I was in NYC for two days a week. There was a huge billboard on the highway from LaGuardia right before you got to the tunnel.

"Grey Goose - 100% American Owned"

Guess the origin was giving them trouble....

Hmm, certain geographic bias there. :-)

Chopin of course is somewhat unique, as it's one of the few vodkas now made from potatoes (instead of the now-"standard" rye).

I go to Poland pretty frequently and I've sampled (and self-imported) quite a few. None of them have yet been quite as good as the four I cited above. Krakus and Wyborowa are still good (certainly better than the generic stuff on offer over here), and I have a bottle of Hevelius (from Gdansk) which is still in the queue for the freezer (the backlog is now two years) - it has the most amazing bottle, but I haven't sampled it yet.

Now, the Wyborowa Exquisite might indeed be really good - since like Nemiroff, my finding over there has been that if there is a "premium" of a label, the regular will be so-so to good, while the premium will be superb.

Do you have a good domestic source for getting any of these? When I compare what I can get "over there" with what's generally available over here, it's pretty depressing....

appeal of Red State:

- informed commentary on the political scene

- informed advice on what to drink under the next Dem admin if we're not successful.

Funny how these things time. Just days after I happen to stumble on the origin of Skanderbeg's account name, I see the Simpsons episode featuring Adil Hoxha. When it rains Albania, it pours.

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Ah, that explains why you were flummoxed yesterday by "Zeleniy zmiy" - which is the same in both Ukrainian AND Russian.

Actually, funny, as "zeleniy zmiy" actually is appropriate for this thread....

Fortunately, Skanderbeg actually IS Albanian.... :-)

When it rains Albania, it pours.

Hey, the only country in Europe that has a birthrate at-or-above replacement is Albania. Only one country in Europe still produces real men!! :-) Well, that just means that eventually "greater Albania" will encompass all of Europe.

Anyway.... the Albanian national spirit is raki (shared in that regard with at least Croatia and Turkey). Raki is basically a marvelous cognac (redistilled wine). Albanian raki is brownish, while Turkish and Croatian raki is clear. The Croatians put herbs in their raki - literally, right in the bottle. Rosemary is a particular favorite and gives their raki a greenish tinge.

(BTW, unifying things here, I've encountered a couple of excellent Ukrainian cognacs while over there - more to self-import with the vodka.)

And BTW re: Skanderbeg, he's this handsome fellow:


IIRC, Albania sided with the Chinese during the Sino-Soviet split.

Little Red Book, Red State... is there a pattern here?

IIRC, Albania sided with the Chinese during the Sino-Soviet split.

Little Red Book, Red State... is there a pattern here?

You'll have to ask Enver Hoxha about that.

Well, it was all more complicated than that.

Enver Hoxha was a fervent Stalinist, and when the post-Stalin USSR wasn't as "pure," he broke with the USSR in 1960 and allied with China. When China de-purified and President Nixon visited, he decided that China was too soft and broke completely with them too and went totally isolationist.

Things were so bad under Enver Hoxha that Romanians will even admit that things were worse in Albania than in Romania.

One of the bizarre aspects of those good old pre-internet days was that Radio Tirana used to come through loud and clear on the shortwave bands - in English. It was quite something to listen in on, particularly the tirades about "the American imperialists, and the Soviet social imperialists, and the Chinese revisionist imperialists."

My all-time favorite Radio Tirana zinger was a fulmination at "the Soviet social-imperialistic-bureaucratic police state." Come to think it, that description wasn't that far from the truth.

But as a consequence, Albania is now the most pro-American country in Europe. "Those people who protest Bush, they do not know what evil is, because they did not have to live under communism."

Sorry, didn't explain the subject header.

During the isolationist years, a Wall Street Journal reporter was actually allowed to make a visit. The prequel headline above his main story was, "Crabby Country."

In Reply To Here

Flyer,
I think a fundamental determinant should be what happens in practice. I'd suggest that history shows that the "belief" of the communists you describe above is hardly more than an opiate for the masses, so to speak.

That some might use a fairness notion to cover their lust for the decidedly unfair shouldn't be surprising. Certainly that they pay lip service to egalitarian fantasies shouldn't excuse their fascism in actual fact.

Show me in practice a Communist government that doesn't act out fascist and/or totalitarian fetishes, and then we can talk about the core of the political system as being some kind of protection of the proletariat.

I'm sure Stalin has press releases opining that he was protecting the working classes. It's safe to say he was not.

absentee

Personally I have little desire to assign various bad guys to the Left or Right. Most of them are utterly indifferent to ideology, except for the ideology of perpetuating their own power.

It just seems more than a little silly for one side or the other to try to suggest that all the bad people in history ideologically aligned with the other side.

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

The sins of the former group are individual sins. The sins of the latter group are global.

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

Isn't a form of government. It's a form of LACK of government.

Additionally Libertarians are not the only type of Right Wingers. And Libertarianism isn't really a Right Wing cause. In many respects it is a Left Wing cause because it embraces freedom of choice in personal matters.

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

You have confused Libertarians with anarchists. Not to say that there isn't an intersection between the groups but its not a correct characterization


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

They are not the same. But Libertarianism is so vague it is difficult to even call it a form of government. It's more of a way of life.

There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why ... I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert Kennedy

Is not a form of government, but it is safe to say it's a philosophy of governance.

absentee

Is that more of it would solve a hefty chunk of any given problem we have currently.

But the people who hear that respond as if we were arguing that libertarianism was a destination, rather than a vector. They then explain, no, we just need better Czars.

"If only the right people were telling the rest of y'all how to live, everything would be fine", the attitude seems to be.

When McCain passes something akin to universal health care, I fully expect to see a dozen essays explaining how Hillarycare/Obamacare would have been so much worse.

But I'm sure I'm just being a Cassandra.

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

Bad, worse, and is that guy eating a bats head and foaming at the mouth ?


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

I don't see many libertarians wanting anyone to tell anybody else how to live. I don't really get that response.

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I was saying that that is the response to my Libertarianism.

"This isn't working, we need less centralized control."
"No! We just need better Czars!"

Like if I argued that I think that the War on Drugs should be ended, people come back with some variant of "So you think that people should be able to sell PCP to my children? If someone tries to sell PCP to my kids I would *KILL* them. WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING SAYING THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SELL PCP TO MY KIDS??!?!?!? I SHOULD (redacted) KILL YOU!!!!"

Um. No. I'm arguing that the Federal Government doesn't have the authority to come down on, say, someone planting a seed in his back yard, waiting a couple of months, pulling a leaf off of the plant that showed up, then making tea with that plant. I am not saying that people should try to tell PCP to your kids. But, for the record, there are people who sell PCP at your kids' schools. Even those of you in the good neighborhoods. Your kids probably know who sells it. The war on drugs has not prevented people being within 100 feet of your kids able to sell them PCP.

Please don't shoot the messenger.

Or, another example, if I say that two consenting adults should be allowed to marry and it's not any of anybody else's business, the response comes something to the effect of "You think two guys should be able to get married? Why not a guy and a dog? Why not a guy and a picnic table? WHY NOT A GUY AND THE MOON?!?!? THAT'S MY MOON TOO, YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!! I think it's disgusting that you want people to be able to marry my moon. I want my kids to go out and look at the moon and not think that some pervert has married it."

So instead of saying "yes, the government has too many fingers in too many pies and we need a lot less regulation and government intrusion than we have", they immediately leap to the conclusion that I want their children to smoke some PCP before they marry the moon and they'll be darned if they allow *THAT* to happen, better to have a government with too many fingers in too many pies.

And so we have situations where we have it explained to us by our betters that McCain's universal health care plan is bad, yes, but the Democrats' plan would have been much, much worse.

And when the Libertarians suggest that, maybe, the government shouldn't be involved, we're asked if we really want everyone to die because no one can get polio shots anymore.

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

Or, another example, if I say that two consenting adults should be allowed to marry and it's not any of anybody else's business, the response comes something to the effect of "You think two guys should be able to get married? Why not a guy and a dog? Why not a guy and a picnic table? WHY NOT A GUY AND THE MOON?!?!? THAT'S MY MOON TOO, YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!! I think it's disgusting that you want people to be able to marry my moon. I want my kids to go out and look at the moon and not think that some pervert has married it."

Actually, nothing does prevent any two people (or any group for that matter) having their own private marriage that's not any of anybody else's business.

What they can't do is make it somebody else's business by getting government registration of that marriage.

Can't have it both ways. It can't be a government registration service and be nobody else's business.

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

And so denial of gay marriage ceases to rest on the foundation of "God is the Guarantor of Marriage and His Laws do not allow for homosexuals to marry each other" and ends up on the foundation of "Hey, if enough people say that gay people shouldn't be allowed the same inheritance rights as common-law couples, it's a case where majority rules!"

Eventually, I imagine, the denial of various civil protections will grow depressing. "Sorry, you guys can't file joint customs claims when you go to the Bahamas... YOU HAVE TO FILE ONE APIECE!!!!"

I can only wait to see the big argument for when a gay guy is forced by a prosecutor to testify against his partner (with whom he has shared a private marriage ceremony) about how refusal to testify is contempt of court.

Eventually, I imagine, those opposed to homosexual couples receiving these civil protections will grow somewhat depressed.

I hope they will, anyway. The mental images of the types of people who would not be depressed by such things are not flattering.

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

I'm looking forward to the eventual airing of "Gay Divorce Court".

Seeing Adam and Chuck arguing over who gets "Fluffy the Pomeranian" will be must watch TV.

______________________________________
Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !

Well, as long as you agree that the 'nobody else's business' thing is total nonsense. The radical activists who keep lying to me and saying it has nothing to do with me can get their comeuppance.

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

If two guys get married in Canada, does that have anything to do with you?

What? Exactly how does this affect you?

So let's say that two guys get married a couple of states over. Same questions.

Let's say that two guys get married a couple of towns over. Same questions.

A couple of houses. Same questions.

I can see how "it offends my sensibilities" could be seen as "this is how it affects me" but... I'm not moved.

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

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Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

And we agree.

www.fairtax.org
Sick of Government Expansion? libertarian-Minded Republican? Check This Out... Republican Liberty Caucus!!!
www.rlc.org http://www.republicanliberty.org/

Maybe I just bought a bunch of lines from my parents, but I always thought that was an important part of being a Republican... Personal choices with retirement saving, personal choices with money, personal choices should be left up to the person not the state, unless you violate someone else's personal freedoms. Weird take, I guess...

www.fairtax.org
Sick of Government Expansion? libertarian-Minded Republican? Check This Out... Republican Liberty Caucus!!!
www.rlc.org http://www.republicanliberty.org/

According to Bloomberg.

The Swedish distiller introduced Absolut in 1979 and now sells almost 11 million cases a year of the vodka, which is made from winter wheat. The U.S. accounts for half of sales.

By contrast, from Business Week.

The company sold 215,000 nine-liter cases of Absolut in Mexico last year.

Speech is free, but not costless. Hello Grey Goose.

The Patriot Room

stupidity.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

I don't know guys, it's just a Vodka ad. I don't think the folks at Absolut are trying to start a revolution here, just trying to sell more booze.

that ad and the anger behind it is viral on the internet....I have seen at least 19 sites with commentary such as this on them and the responders are just as pissed......I love the internet.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

In THEIR world, my home is to be stolen by Mexicans. They dind't just depict it, they called it THEIR WORLD. They endorse the conquest of a large hunk of the United States of America.

If they just wanted to sell booze, why did they take a position on a highly controversial, and probably fringe political movement?

They didn't have to do that. They did though. They chose sides. We now know where they stand.

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

Do you really believe there are a bunch of people up in Sweden waving Mexican flags around praying for a revolution? That this Vodka ad was part of some vast conspiracy?

It's a dumb ad made by a marketing dolt for the company in an effort to sell Vodka in a market untapped. To say they "stand for a Mexican revolution" for this ad is like saying Budweiser "stands for beastiality" because of this ad.

And I'm sorry Vodka fans, but I steer clear of the beverage that works on the principle of the less taste it has, the better it is.

marketing person....but just like any other ad if you don't like the ad you probably will not buy the product ie: a lot of us don't like the ad and we will not buy the product.

second, what makes you think we envision Swedes waving a Mexican flag and seeing conspiracies? I don't think anyone has been over the top about this totally insulting ad....is there no ad that has insulted you and made you contact the company?

You see I am an engaged consumer and if I am unhappy with what I see I do something besides post on a website...I call and express my displeasure and I don't buy the product...I did this with Miller because of their support of the "gay pride parade" in SFO earlier in the year where the freaks of the world were having sex in front of children.

It is my right to speak my mind and not sit back and let it go because you or someone else finds me being offended as a problem or silly. I find you not being offended as silly.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

Its also really bad form to try and get someone to insult a group. It was bad enough when A rational Liberal kept pulling that.


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

I'm trying to see if he insulted freaks or gays or both.

...who were having sex with each other in front of children.

Behave, shooflyguy68.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

might I suggest you look at the videos all over the internet that were taken at that particular parade....when you do take the time to look you will see that freaks were definitely there in full force that day.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

See my note to Moe. I guess I skipped the whole sex in public in view of children part. Sorry.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

I don't take advertisements seriously. They are there to draw attention to a particular brand, product or service. I also don't make my purchasing decisions on how good or bad a particular advertisement is. My decisions are based on price and quality.

Tim Schieferecke

Some "dolt" came up with the ad, but it had to be signed off on by the Absolut big wigs. Ad campaigns don't happen in a vacuum. There were multiple layers of management that signed off on this. In life, their are ABSOLUTES, though there are always relativists that will excuse the unexcusable at every turn. You are a charter member.
Tim Schieferecke

Marketing and Advertising are not synonymous. Now who rode the short bus to school.

International marketing is fraught with risks, as I mentioned elsewhere in the comments.

(The most interesting course I took in my MBA program was in international marketing, which had and has nothing to do with how I earn my living!)

The classic risk is the theme that works in one culture and is a disaster in another one.

An emerging risk is the fact that cultures are no longer isolated from each other and that ANYTHING touching ethnicity or ethnic/national/religious themes is getting very chancy, even if in jest.

When advertising blows it, you can rest ASSURED that the senior marketing people get involved. With an ax.

Let's put it this way. Mercedes Benz would be well-advised to avoid an ad on French TV that praises German engineering with a video of a tank rolling down the Champs Elysees to the tune of "The Last Time I Saw Paris". OK, this is a joke, but you get the picture.

Absolut did something REALLY stupid. If they have brains, they will pull the ad.

They are just singers. And this is another topic that is somewhat related that will send me on a tangent.

The minute you give people like that attention, you give them credibility. This goes for the Dixie Chicks, Absolut, and many others. Their opinions don't matter, or shouldn't matter anymore than the guy down the street. But for some reason we choose to give them free publicity and in turn credibility. Think of Rosie O'Donnell for example. She's a washed up comedienne who somehow people feel has an opinion that matters in this world. Why?

I walk by a homeless guy every morning who screams from the street corner about how aliens control our minds. I smile, I chuckle, and I continue on my day without giving it a second thought. That is how you treat situations like this. You don't give them the attention they crave. You treat the billboard as some dumb ad that doesn't deserve a minute of your thoughts, just as you treat the Dixie Chicks like some mediocre, generic country band. But the minute you give their opinions and statements attention, you've given them credibility.

a global economy, and have the right to react to ads in whatever fashion they wish.

So while I think some of the angst coursing through these threads is a little overdone, Absolut did a tasteless ad that will offend people in the US market. Which, of course, under NAFTA is linked ever more closely to the Candadian and Mexican markets.

So they have to reap the consequences. (International marketing is tricky. Classic case: Chevy laid an egg marketing the Nova in Latin countries, which of course means "it doesn't go" in Spanish.)
.

it's just a vodka product that I pay money for. I don't think the folks at Absolut will mind if I buy some Skyy or Stolichnaya next time I'm in the package store.

___________________________________
Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.

How would you feel if the U.S. Map was covered with a Stars and Bars and the canption read in an Absolut World ?


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

and chatting on a commentary board, I wouldn't care. Remember that this is an ad made for Mexicans and published in Mexico. Also, it's not that I don't object to it, just that I'm not getting my knickers in a bunch and boycotting Absolut vodka. However, if it bothers folks here, it is understandable. No one wants to contemplate a United States that is lessened in any way.

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

It's been a while since I've been on vacation for a couple of weeks. :-)

South Carolina, Mississippi, Virgina well you get the picture.

Your bit about it running in mexico just makes it more offensive not less


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

How many ads do we see touting how the USA is #1? You know that's fine for me...I believe it. However, I can see how it might tick others off.

They were completely wrong. The cause was not noble. Their motives impure and the results of their success would have been horrific. So an ad that endorses or encourages anything but a realization of that is wrong.

Now let me put on my asbestos suit as the states rights people get ready to launch at me.


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

... is to drink decent liquor, a single malt or and Irish, instead of bottled ethanol --- you use that stuff for sterilizing instruments or cleaning grease off of bearings :-)

John
----------
Why would God invent something like whiskey? To keep the Irish from ruling the world of course

This is the most important post in this thread. As I mentioned earlier, steer clear of any beverage where the principle is that the less taste it has, the better it is.

... is like arguing about "aged" tequila :-)

John
----------
Why would God invent something like whiskey? To keep the Irish from ruling the world of course

I also seriously doubt if illegal immigration would be an issue if very many people wanted to bring the American West down to a Mexican quality of life.

lesterblog.blogspot.com

There are many areas in Arizona and Southern CA that are just as bad as Mexico in regards to safety, drugs, crime, 20 people living in a house, 8 cars parked around the place, trash in the yard, limited health care resources overloaded with illegals,... That is why it is an issue; there are still Americans there who are not happy with the situation, but they are losing.

Absolut is only picking up on the momentum and future direction of the southwest, it will be lost to the US in the next generation. Just what until it comes to your neighborhood, but it will be too late by then.

...pretty good stuff, though. I'm partial to Grey Goose as well as Effen (Dutch vodka) myself.

Although, if you wanted to really thumb your nose at the Absolut ad, I would recommend Tito's Vodka... made in Texas, relatively cheap (found it in Michigan for $18 a bottle), and not too bad. It's not Goose, but it's a shot across the bow of the reconquista with our tasty corn spirit.

"No matter how much lipstick you put on the taxation pig, it's still a pig... and it's currently snout-down in your wallet." - Michael Fisk

Put a little Captain in ya!




Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

and most of them would be politically on the left here in the USA



Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.

count, the makers of Absolut might want to consider drinking Absolut, because they have an absolute mess on their hands now.



Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.

 
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