A Question for Saxby Chambliss
By Erick Posted in Immigration — Comments (77) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
I was at a breakfast this morning where Saxby Chambliss and Johnny Isakson mutually loved on each other (don't ask, don't tell). They also heaped love on the immigration bill -- basically saying it was the greatest thing ever in life, even better than sliced bread, but they would wait to decide whether to vote on it, but they sure did think the bill was great in bed, er . . . something like that.
They also — Saxby by my count 5 times — pointed out that the bill had not yet been written, though by this evening it is in final form.
So, my question — if this is the greatest bill every written, why not let us all look at it before voting on it? They're going to file for cloture at 5 p.m. on Monday to cut debate short. Why? If it is so good, why don't you let us have time to look it over and see just how good it is?
Oh, and one more question — Saxby, why do you value illegal aliens more than our troops? You too Johnny. Why do you guys and the President value illegal aliens more than the troops? After all, you guys are rushing to get this bill done by Memorial Day, and you've put the funding for our troops on hold to get this bill passed when it was only written today.
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A Question for Saxby Chambliss 77 Comments (0 topical, 77 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
who appreciate what Chambliss and Isackson are doing. RedStaters don't like the bill, but the farmers these guys represent greatly appreciate it.
... before these very same farmers will be paying union wages to pick lettuce. I don't see it, what drives the illegal immigration is below minimum wages, no taxes and no benefits. If you give AMNESTY to the illegals, won't they then demand at least minimum wage and benefits? Of course they will. The illegal Mexicans may be uneducated stoop laborers, but the ACLU will fix the union and wages part.
And how about all those illegal Muslims, they are in as well ... hello terrorists. Remember how many of the terrorists were illegals, well once this travesty passes, they are in as well.
The demographics change is what is wanted here, flooding the country with Democrat socialist voters, the low wages won't last past the day after the bill passes and AMNESTY is granted -- One and the same actually.
Bye Bye Republicans ... Bye Bye America as we know it.
In 1988 Congress passed immigration reform allowing for amnesty and requiring - NOTE Bobby, REQUIRING - border security and employer sanctions. Illegals got amnesty, we got the shaft. Congress never even TRIED to do the security/sanctions. Last year Congress passed legislation to build 700 miles of fence on the border. Oh, but they didn't bother to fund it. This bill has 360 miles of fence.
Given their track record, what makes you think for one instant that any of the security/enforcement provisions will be implemented? And just how long do you think it will take for LaRaza, etal to start filing lawsuits and blocking implementation of those provisions?
Do you actually BELIEVE these jack asses?
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
at competitive wages for their areas.
I don't know much about the farming/ag pay, and how it compares to minimum wages, but in the are of construction/contracting illegals make pay at similar rates to anyone else-granted if they weren't here, people in those areas might see an increase in their wages, but it is a myth that illegals are working below minimum wage, I would guess even in farming they work above minimum wage, they just depress to some degree the wages that would be paid, if they weren't working.
The problem is that the illegal workers and business owners both know they are in a win/win situation.
I honestly am not as hardline on immigration as some are-I think allowing more immigrants in legally is a good idea.
My problem with bills like this is they essentially legalize the illegal, but then do nothing to actually stop further illegal immigration-I think the government needs to work more on cracking down on the employer end, and they need to make coming here illegally more painful than coming legally for the immigrant and for those that hire them.
Even if the bill includes a crack down on employers, the government has to enforce it, and I figure they won't be too diligent in this area-it benefits too many people.
AMNESTY came quick, still waiting on the 1986 enforcement provisions to kick in. Tell me why we need a new magic law that won't be enforced any better than the last two magic laws were? Seems like roughly every 20 years we need a new AMNESTY bill. Why have we built less than two miles of the authorized 700 miles of fence, do you think that is a sign of what is coming?
My problem with bills like this is they essentially legalize the illegal
And that is what make it AMNESTY from the beginning.
All I know is the illegals around here work for cash and that's not minimum wage cash. The locals have gotten smart, the legitimate construction outfits hire subs, the subs hire the cash workers. You can see them being picked up at the local HD and other "illegal rest stops" each morning. Avoid the fines, use a Mexican sub and if he gets in trouble with the law, back to Mexico for him, call him up in Mexico and ask who is his local stand in.
Why aren't black leaders upset? Or are they in on the one party strategy that is the end result of changing America's demographics favorable to Democrats will do. If it were my jobs being taken away, I would be upset.
BTW there was some Mexican on OReilly Friday night that said exactly that ... what's wrong with a one party socialist society. Pretty brazen but right in your face with what he wanted, welfare for all. The suckers get to pay, I assume.
I guess no one wants to talk about legalizes terrorists and what that might do in the future. See France for the plans.
Well, it would be nice if when talking about 'temporary guest workers', politicians really mean temporary guest workers. Its doubtful that we'd force them to go home if they didn't want to anyway, but if we allow them to bring their family while technically 'guests', then its pretty much a sure thing that this 'temporary worker' program is nothing of the sort, and is instead just another way to deceptively increase permanent legal immigration.
In other words, don't lie to us and use deceptive language.
When did Redstate become a breeding ground for the AFL-CIO? John Sweeney seems to be right in line with this "conservative" philosophy.
The point is not whether or not I support a guest worker program. The point is that the proposed plans should match the language used to sell them to us.
If politicians are going to use words like 'guest' and 'temporary' to win over the public, then the workers really should be guests, and their stay should be temporary. As such, there should not be allowances for things that will make it likely they will stay, such as allowing them to bring family members with them. And of course, the bill should be unambiguous as to how the 'guests' must return home (holding back part of their wages might help in this) and how there is no path to citizenship for them as a part of the guest worker program.
Otherwise, just be honest and admit that they are in fact admitting a huge additional group of permanent legal immigrants.
Illegal Immigrant doesn't pay taxes.
I also do agree with to a certain point. $5000 is a lot of money for workers who are probably working at around minimum wage. So how is this going to be effective if people don't find it in their economic benefit to do such a thing.
True Comprehensive immigration reform needs to have strict enforcement to keep more from coming in, but it also has to have a realistic set of opportunities that they will want to take.
economic benefits. The fee should be $25,000.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
I'm not sure about State taxes but they won't be paying any Federal income taxes, past or present. The bottom 40% of wage-earners in the U.S. don't make enough money to pay Federal Income taxes. This is the bracket they'll be in.
In fact, they'll probably qualify for the "low-income" earned income tax credits.
They won't have to pay any income taxes in some States, either. Texas and Florida, which are packed full of illegals, don't have personal income tax.
Most illegals pay taxes (see TIN). Illegals don't get Social Security and other social programs.
Even the ones that get paid under the table still end up getting taxes paid some how. Businesses do have to account for the money, normally its just through someone elses salary.
Most of the businesses I've seen that are doing the "under the table" accounting are S-Corp/LLCs that any profit gets taxed at the personal income tax bracket of the owner.. so that's not any tax benefit.
- left-wing, right-wing, in-tandem, shadowy conspiracy ring leader
"Most illegals pay taxes (see TIN). Illegals don't get Social Security and other social programs."
I dunno where you were taught that fallacy but illegals get ALL kinds of government help. I live in Southwest Florida and we have a huge latino immigration population here. Both legal and illegal, but ALOT of illegals. Being a construction superintendant I work with them day in and day out and here is what I have personally witnessed. I have seen illegals with foodstamps, Aid to dependant families, WIC, SSI disability etc. I have recieved letters from the IRS telling me that as many as 6 of my men were working under false/stolen social security numbers and in the same paragraph tell me that this fact wasn't grounds for termination. All they wanted me to do was confirm the numbers to rule out any typo's but other wise forget it. There's a 67 year old El Salvadorian man who goes to my wifes IV infusion clinic, he's illegal, he is missing one leg below the knee and the opposite arm from the shoulder down and has a MERSA infection that's been getting IV antibiotics for months at 3,500.00+ a pop. Now this gentleman has NEVER worked a day in the USA in his life. He, with the help of his son, got him smuggled to america where he promptly
plopped himself on Uncle Sams doorstep. He gets disability and
though he will never be able to pay any of his share of the medical costs, he gets the top of the line newest antibiotics to treat his infection.
No one evertalks about all the grief the people go through who find out that someones been using their SS number. Usually it's from a nice letter from the IRS asking you why you didn't claim all your income and telling you you owe this much more or maybe it's when you finally call to see what's happend to your tax return check and you discover that it's already been sent out, just not to your address. There's more
criminal behaviour than just being here illegaly. There's the cases of indentity theft, tax fraud, insurence fraud and just plain fraud as they sign their newly aquired indentity to all those legal documents. It hurts regular law abiding citizens
and it's so unfair to all those immigrants standing in line and
doing it the right way.
We don't need to stop immigration, just get a handle on it. Get them registered so we know who we have and what they are doing. Secure the borders and stop the illegal traffic.
And do something to the businesses that don't fall in line.
Economic security, national security both need to be protected.
Nothing can now be believed which is seen
in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes
suspicious by being put into that polluted
vehicle! Thomas Jefferson
'splane to me just why it is that we can't find them so they can be deported?
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
Make of that what you will.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
SSA, IRS, DHS, etc., are not allowed to share their data. If they could, we could learn more about illegals and federal taxes. But, it wouldn't be definitive because their records wouldn't reflect any clear distinction between a legal and illegal resident alien.
Mostly, what you get, is what they filled in on government forms which are not cross-indexed, correlated, documented, or authenticated 95 percent of the time. No government form asks the question whether or not you're an illegal alien. They ask if you are a U.S. citizen. If not, you give them a Green Card number which is not automatically forwarded to another agency.
The question is not really whether or not they pay taxes. It is whether or not they pay enough taxes to support the added local, state, and federal governmental services and higher entitlement budgets.
So far, the federal government refuses to compensate cities and states for any additional cost burdens. Right now, cities and states are buying a lot of long-term bonds. If the costs are too high, it negates the cheap labor benefits. I bet that when an immigration bill is passed, there will be a big push for federal aid to impacted localities. We create little Third World regions in the U.S., so we have to give them foreign aid. This will be great fodder for Democrat politicians.
One, I actually knew the IRS can't legally share than info, I was being my old, crotchety, snarky self.
Two, with respect to cities and states and their costs due to illegals, they can rot in hell. If the state of California doesn't like going bankrupt over paying for illegals, let them:
1. Outlaw sanctuary cities. No state money.
2. Check the immigration status of every person who comes into contact with law enforcement. House illegals separately and scream until ICE picks them up and deports them
3. Make all public benefits available to citizens and legal immigrants.
4. Make parents prove their immigration status when registering a kid for school. If they are illegal, the kid doesn't get into school and parents are turned over to ICE. Let the kid - even if they are a citizen - get educated in Mexico.
5. Make landlords verify immigration status to rent housing.
6. Shut down or regulate "day labor centers".
In other words, make the US a hostile place if you are not here legally. If they don't want to do that, I hope they are buried under their bond payments. Actually, I hope they can't sell the damn things and go broke.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
where is the blankety blank blank !@#$%^&*(
700 mile fence first?
What is the rush? Heaven help us if they get the 60 votes to shut off debate before the ink is dry and due diligence.
In that case I'm planning on moving to a low rent district in
Switzerland and pay 5X of one months rent in taxes for the year cause that will be bargain compared to what we will see here.
Switzerland sounds like a sweet deal now.
Everything "bad" in this bill will happen so slowly, that it can be "fixed" at a later time when conservatives have more leverage in Congress. Meanwhile, the influx of new aliens continues. This bill is certainly better than doing nothing--the only other option right now.
From: Democrats, GOP reach accord on immigrants
By Nicole Gaouette
May 18, 2007
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.immigration18may18,0...
Excerpt:
The proposed bill would immediately offer probationary legal status to illegal immigrants who were in the country before Jan. 1, 2007, and allow those who qualify to gain citizenship within an estimated 12 to 13 years. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff warned immigrants yesterday against illegally crossing the border now, saying they would [if caught] be barred from becoming legal residents. "That would be the absolute dumbest thing to do," he said. Illegal immigrants would have from six months to a year to apply for probationary status. Once the border and work-site security requirements were in place, they could apply for a "Z visa." The visa would be good for four years and could be renewed once. After eight years, applicants who qualified could begin applying for permanent resident status, or a green card, a step toward citizenship. After five years with a green card, the immigrants could apply for citizenship. Chertoff said that he expected about 15 percent to 20 percent of the 12 million illegal immigrants would be disqualified for committing crimes or other reasons. Successful Z visa applicants would have to meet several criteria, including a good work history and, after the first four years, the ability to pass the English proficiency test given to those applying for citizenship. Heads of households would also have to return to their home country and re-enter legally. Each applicant would pay a $1,000 fine and a $1,500 processing fee that could be paid in installments. Visa renewals would cost $500. Z visa holders who want to apply for a green card would have to pay an additional $4,000 fine.
My God! That's most out of touch statement I've heard in years.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
This is an authenically bipartisan bill.
Notice "bad" is in quotes. I don't think it's as bad as you think it is.
It's sponsors should be tarred and feathered. Literally.
You don't think it's so bad. Cool. A rational decision. Let's see, no immigration bill with enforcement provisions has ever been implemented. Ever. The same buttheads that are writing this bill wrote the '88 bill that never got done.
And oh, BTW, which are your favorite parts of the bill? Since it hasn't been made public yet.
Sheesh. Trusting the Congress on this is like letting your 15 year old daughter date a 30 year old serial rapist.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
our national sovereignty, our national security and the fiscal future of the country. No big deal or anything. Sleep tight.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
But have you read it ?
I just downloaded it from the Heritage Foundation. I'll probably read it on my laptop to put me to sleep. So far though it looks self referential enough that I may never actually understand it. Especially not having a background in immigration law and associated precedents.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Analysts at the Heritage Foundation have the current legislative text of the immigration deal and are alarmed at provisions they view as dangerous loopholes...lots of provisions are apparently able to be waived by Cabinet secretaries so there's plenty of discretion for the next Clinton administration.
Or Obama administration. And, what if the Dems continue to hold the House for years to come? The folks in power in the near future may have next to no interest in "fixing" any of the problems we see with this bill.
(Emphasis added. This paragraph is from NRO's Corner; hattip to Erick's Redhot entry for pointing me to it.)
Emphasis adde
"Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?" (Macaulay)
Everything "bad" in this bill will happen so slowly, that it can be "fixed" at a later time when conservatives have more leverage in Congress.
Just curious - and whom will vote for these 'conservatives'? Hmmmm?
If the R's get this amnesty debacle pushed through, I will never vote for an R that had anything to do with it. I am sure I am not alone in this sentiment. And please spare me that the d's are worse yadda yadda yadda - THEY ARE ALL DOING THE SAME THING!
Of course with another 10 million 3rd world socialist votes (legal and illegal), the R's are through politically anyway. Ever wonder why the Founding Fathers only allowed property owners to vote?
BTW - what are all of the legal/illegals going to do when the housing bubble pops (high proportion work in that industry)? Once legal, we get to support them and thier extended families on the dole.
But by all means, let's be compassionate - after all we made them come here to prop up our capitalist, greed mongering society. We owe it to them.
And they want to cut debate short on monday.
Gotta say its nice to know that we have intellectual giants in the congress able to digest it so quickly.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
***
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
I thought that was a big point to make. It's not like the Republicans have much say. I actually believe it's the Democrats because their consitituents are going to be as mad over other sections of the bill as we are.
As for me, I'm trying to get answers on some questions before I decide to tar and feather Saxby and Johnny, Erick. They did offer to talk to us, and we are their constituents. A few people at the convention (the cooler heads, actually) were saying that they had spoken with staffers on Friday and felt as if they were listened to, and talking to the staffs made them feel better about the bill overall, albeit not great.
I don't think any of us are going to love this bill. At the end of the day, though, if Saxby and Johnny get all the provisions through that they mentioned on Saturday, I can live with it because it will mean that they've worked with a bad bill to make it better. This is a Democratic controlled Congress, so the fact that the two have put in effort to change the legislation means they weren't going to just sell us all down the river with the idea of "I don't like this, I'll just sit in the minority and say no while the bill passes anyway". I trust that the two won't vote for something that doesn't include their provisions, but I have also contacted their offices to address questions and state my concerns. I hope you've done the same.
These politicians both sides of the aisle are a disgrace to the country.They put a happy face on treason.
me of the movie Gangs of New York. We have lots of 21st Century "Butcher Bills" on here representing the Confederation of Native Americans.
Illegal immigrants should fit right in in Georgia If you know Georgia history you will know the state was founded as -- yep, a penal colony.
Oh, I forgot all our ancestors who came here were the creme-de-la-creme of their home countries. Yeah, right.
Like every 3rd grader doesn't know Georgia and Australia we British penal colonies. Not suprised you use the left-wing shill wikipedia as your source. Next, you'll be quoting CNN.
I guess I'll wait a little while longer to see if you actually have anything to add to the discussion, like maybe an argument. Or just another pantload. I looked at you posts and noticed you didn't have any arguments, just epithets about the RedState posters. Can't we have some of your Truther wisdom?
you'd know that isn't true. Some of Oglethorpe's colonists were sentenced to prison over debt, an all too common practice in England in that day. None were "criminals" in the sense we'd use that word today and Georgia, unlike Australia, was never a penal colony.
Unfortunately, illegal immigrants do fit right in, though. Georgia has more than its fair share of gyppo food processors, e.g., the "chicken plants, light manufacturers, and contractors and, like much of the South, a ruling class that refuses to pay a decent wage, or pay for anything much if they can help it.
Outside Atlanta, there are two kinds of people; those with money and those who'll never have any, and the whole political and economic system conspires to keep it that way.
My family has been in Georgia since 1795 and I still pay the taxes on some of the original property. Don't get me wrong, there are some things I really like about the state where I was born, but its economic system isn't one of them. Atlanta is the exception, if you, unlike me, can stand living in a city, but there is much truth in the old saw: outside Atlanta, there is Georgia.
In Vino Veritas
were non-violent criminals who left their home country seeking a better life for themselves and their families? Sounds familiar.
Tremendously warm and gracious people live in Georgia. And yes, the economic situation you described applies not only to Georgia, but to many states throughout the Southeast.
going to the United States? Judging by the reactions of Mexico's president I doubt it is against the law for them to do so.
The territory that became the Crown Colony of Georgia was the property of the English Crown. The Spanish claimed the far southern part of the territory, and they pretty agressively protected their claim against "illegal immigration." Now the Yammacraw, Creeks, and Cherokees may not have thought too much of all that, but that is for another argument.
In Vino Veritas
Your point is totally wrong. England OWNED Georgia (hint: as in George) when it sent the debtors here - BTW as a way to expand it's mechantile base. Following your 'logic' you infer that mexico owns the US?
If you want to play, sharpen it up a bit.
Draft Legislation: The Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act of 2007
Robert Rector, also of the Heritage Foundation, has calculated the fiscal impact of Low-Skill Households on the US Taxpayer.
The Fiscal Cost of Low-Skill Households to the U.S. Taxpayer
Executive Summary: The Fiscal Cost of Low-Skill Households to the U.S. Taxpayer
***
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
I've let Chambliss's office know that I'll be giving to his opponents next year if he signs on to this mess.
Romney or Fred.
Currently writing non-political stories over at first-cut-stories.blogspot.com
California will soon have "The Dream Act" brought to us courtesy of the same guy-Gil Cedillo who tried to distribute drivers licenses to illegals. This new Bill will allow all in-state educational benefits to children of illegals. Armed with a new amnesty statute, illegals will have more rights to California's much vaunted public educational institutions than out-of-state citizens! Treason this face is Congress
I paid those God-awful non-resident rates for two years until I finally convinced my wife that her baby boy was majoring in bikini removal and minoring in golf and volleyball and got him out of CA. University of Washington wouldn't even accept a lot of the credits. Bottom line, CA rapes legal residents of other states and gives illegals the highly subsidized resident rate. I'd sue for a refund if I didn't just want to put the whole sorry mess behind us.
In Vino Veritas
It's overcrowding, stupid! Our highways are jammed. Schools are overflowing. Hospitals are closing. And prisons and social services are packed.
Illegal immigration directly worsens all of the above. WHY doesn't anyone who's in favor of securing the border point this out?
Society loses. Big business wins. Everyone else suffers.
Anyone tried driving around southern California's freeways lately? Do you REALLY believe we need more human bodies crammed in here??
for the same reason that "they" don't ever answer the question of what happens when we leave Iraq. People who would attempt to debate with you about how good or bad something is and do not include thoughts on both sides are just intellectually thick in the head. This bill would have been something most people would have gotten behind if in the past 20 years the government had done its job in protecting the border, it did not and instead of say 6 million it is more likely 20 million illegals who will indeed be below the tax rate and available for public benefits. There in lies the anger and not just in the right of center blogs but in local newspapers all across the nation. I have contacted my Senator and my congressman and notified them I will not be supporting either one in the future if they support this travesty. No bill is better then this bill and do not tell me to pick the lesser of two evils as that is what I am forced to do in every election.
To get legalized no payment of back taxes will be required. How do I get equal protection here? I've paid a lot of tax over the last few years I'd like to get back.
Tax-Paying Legal Immigrant
that passed the Senate last year, illegals were going to be required to file tax returns for at least 3 of the past 5 years.
Many conservative Senators complained about this. They said illegals, since many work at lower-wage jobs, would be eligible for the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) and receive substantial tax REFUNDS.
Now, we have people complaining and saying they want illegals to pay back taxes and guess what -- be eligible for tax refunds?
You MAKE illegals file taxes for the time they were here and people complain. You decide TO NOT MAKE illegals file taxes and you hear complaints.
Goodness, no wonder our nation's immigration policies are a mess.
When you debate and negotiate, that is called Deomcracy.
The point is there are substantial expenses to many of these proposals. For example, the tax provision was controversial not only because of EITC, but also that other "taxes" (FICA, etc.) were part of the negotiation.
The game became one side attempting to have EITC part of the calculation wothout payment of (FICA, etc.). The other side wanted all "taxes" included.
"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"
Contributor to The Minority Report
I will find the cite (limited on time today). Nonetheless, if you look at issues such as the last PRWORA negotiations (believe section 451). Immigrants without a valid SSN were able to file for EITC under preexisting IRS guidelines. This was an “end around” other associated payroll taxes and subject to abuse.
Although somewhat disconnected, it is often part of the negotiation; give credit for SS, etc. without real proof any was ever paid. Look at some of the “immigrant rights” groups publications; they are always harping on EITC.
"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"
Contributor to The Minority Report
Citizens or legal immigrants can only back-file to get a credit/benefit (e.g. to claim the EITC) for three years after the relevant period. But the liability to file when you owe the tax never expires.
Everyone here is missing the main point about this whole bill. While everyone is piddling about the status of the immigrants here, they are ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room about this legislation!
Border Security!
I am personally opposed to legalizing the illegal immigrants, but I can deal with it easy enough if I know there won't be another 12 million illegals streaming across the border in the next couple of years.
What to do with the ones that are here is a minor issue when compared to the next 12 million that comes over the border!
Absolutely secure the border, and because the Democrats love bench marks so much, why don't we use "results oriented" bench marks to gage if it is working. If the bench marks are met, they initiate a program to deal with those already here. This is not rocket science!
I do honestly believe most of the population can live with keeping those already here just fine as long as they know there won't be another 12 million illegals streaming across the border.
"Wubbies World" - MSgt, U.S. Air Force (Retired): "Call to Me and I will answer you, and I will tell you great and mighty things, which you do not know." -Jer 33:3-
going to get serious on border security until we have another 9/11 just look how serious they are about securing our borders.
I remember in 1986 when they gave amnesty to 3 million that was supposed to end it.
Unfortunately, I think you may be right.
What really blows my mind is that those in Washington are so completely oblivious to the fact that that is all they need to do to get the majority of Americans to go along with their monstrosity of a bill.
I do not like the bill at all, but that is what they need to do to win people over and they don't see it!
"Wubbies World" - MSgt, U.S. Air Force (Retired): "Call to Me and I will answer you, and I will tell you great and mighty things, which you do not know." -Jer 33:3-
office. Thats something to think about we very likely won't be winning this next election.
If you really think the border protection measures will work or will even be actually enforced, why weren't these ideas put into a separate bill all these years? No, this is just in the bill to try to keep us quiet so that the powers that be can put there master plan to work.
Anything that we might like in the bill can be ruled unconstitutional by some court at a later point in time. Don't believe the noise.
Erick I buy that people are furious about this immigration bill and I agree that the Senate shouldn't be in quite as big a hurry as they are in to pass it. That is, a vote at the end of the week rather that COB Monday would be fine. However, immigration is a pressing issue and the quicker we move toward a solution the better.
The point is, funding for the troops that isn't yest needed for the next several months can be put on hold for a day or two while the Senate faces the toughest and most pressing domestic issue in American history.
Additionally, I think you should keep your arguments academic. I hardly think you're going to swing any votes from the distinguished Senators from Georgia by alluding that they're homosexual. (Not to mention that the comments violate your own posting rules.)
Lastly, I feel like the way many conservatives are firing at this bill is the way Dems fired at nearly every important piece of legislation put forward by the Republican majority for the last several years. Criticism is fine, but it's irresponsible to poke holes in a proposal unless you have some sort of counter-proposal to put forward.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Human Events: "Title I requires the Secretary of Homeland Security to certify that the triggers are met before the Title IV (Guest Worker) and Title VI (Z visa ) programs can begin, with the exception of probationary status for Z workers and the programs for agricultural workers."
Look we have twice been lied to by Kennedy. In 65, in 86. We had actions that brought the worst kind of human exploitation home to this country.
Now we are supposed to believe that what hasn't happened twice before will happen now ?
I say we send Ted Kennedy to Mexico and he can come back in the country once the enforcement requirements are met.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
And you can take your smarmy comment on war funding and ram it, with vengance, where the sun don't shine.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
I don't see what my being a new user has to do with the validity of my comment. And there's nothing "smarmy" about what I said. I was simply saying that the fact that they're moving this immigration bill ahead of the troop funding bill is not indicative of a lack of concern or support for our troops and I stand by that.
Also, for what it's worth, from Human Events:
"Title I requires the Secretary of Homeland Security to certify that the triggers are met before the Title IV (Guest Worker) and Title VI (Z visa ) programs can begin, with the exception of probationary status for Z workers and the programs for agricultural workers."
This bill is "enforcement first". But for the record, I'm not crazy about this legislation. I just think if we conservatives are going to attack it we should attack it for valid reasons.
(Example of invalid reason: You've only been a RedState user for two hours so anything you say must be wrong.)
It was: stupid. Naive. Trusting in people who haven't earned it. Pick one.
People who've been here for a couple of hours and have no posting history need to build some credibility. Believing that this piece of unmitigated crap is "enforcement first" isn't a good way to do that.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
"Amnesty Saxby" was booed at the Georgia Republican convention this weekend. Can anyone confirm? Erick? I also hear that Lindsey Graham met similar reactions at South Carolina's gathering.
When he mentioned that one of the provisions he wanted in the bill before he'd vote for it was that the temporary worker program had to be just that - temporary. Delegates in those sections were clearly for no temporary worker visas.
The fix is in, they are going to ram this through without us or even most of them having read this bill. The bill is nonsense. The big benefit of being illegal is not having to pay any taxes(both for them and their employer). Why are they going to go through this process of registering, paying $5000 and subjecting themselves to federal,state and social security taxes? IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!!!
So, what do you think is the real motivation of our politicians, the so-called "protectors of America" in passing this bill?