What the Joke Was Supposed to Be
It's not funny, even by Kerry standards.
By Leon H Wolf Posted in Liberals — Comments (117) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
At the risk of drastic overkill, I feel compelled to throw up one more Kerry story. For the first time, I've found what the joke was supposed to be:
A Kerry aide said that the prepared statement, which had been designed to criticize Bush, "was mangled in delivery."
Kerry was supposed to say, "I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."
Now, let us compare this with what Kerry actually said:
"You know, education -- if you make the most of it, you study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well.
"If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
Hunh. How did one turn in to the other?
More below...
Now, I don't know who this Kerry aide is or if they're telling the truth, or making up an explanation after the fact, but I'm willing to believe it. That first blockquote was in front of Kerry, and he instead said the second. Well, what does that tell us?
Well, as anyone can certainly see, that's not a joke that is "mangled in delivery." The problem is not that Kerry omitted a word, or a phrase, which created a perfectly understandable, but wrong, impression. The second blockquote is entirely and substantively different. If the Kerry aide is being truthful, and the first words were in front of Kerry and he instead said the second ones, I think it actually says a lot. I've said nothing about the original comments until now (I did have a response to Kerry's wildly inappropriate refusal to apologize), because I wanted to hear, if this was a botched joke, what the joke was supposed to be and how it came about. Well, now we have at least the first half of that equation. I suspect that the second half is something we'll never get.
The reason for that is that it's probably quite embarrassing. I know most of us have never been on the campaign trail like this, but you can surely understand how it goes. You run from place to place, and you have other people writing material for you. When you're speaking to diverse audiences, and stumping for lots of different candidates, who are concerned about different issues, you probably have lots of different speeches. And certainly you don't have time to practice (or maybe even read) them all beforehand. So you've got your piece of paper in front of you (or a teleprompter, or whatever), and you kind of go along, except that you don't want to just read off the paper, because people can tell when you're doing that sort of thing. Even if you're as "dynamic" as John Kerry. So what you do is you glance down at the paragraph, get the idea of what it's about, and then spit it out as best you can remember, making it sound like something you'd say. The problem, in this case (and I'm nearly certain that this is how it went), is that Kerry saw a paragraph about lack of education and Iraq, and spit out something about the uneducated being "stuck in Iraq." Whoops.
Hey, I'm willing to buy that this was a "botched joke about the President." The problem is that the botching, in this case, is not exculpatory but rather inculpatory, because it tells us all what this two-time male gold-digger really thinks about the troops on the ground. And please let's not trot out the ridiculous nonsense about Kerry standing up for veterans during his entire career, as it's pretty well a load.
Two final points: I'm glad to see some Democrats responding negatively to Kerry, and as a personal matter, I don't see the point in demanding that every Democrat on the face of the earth condemn John Kerry. The man is clearly a doofus, and any Democrat up for election who doesn't do so of course takes an electoral risk, fair or not. But I'm not going to go around seeking responses from this person or that person on this issue.
Finally, I have to say that yeah, maybe this is being blown a little out of proportion. However, as Bob has been repeatedly saying, the continuing Foleypalooza makes it a little difficult to feel precisely sorry about that. I just hope that, unlike the Democrats, our elected folks can avoid overreach on this issue.
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What the Joke Was Supposed to Be 117 Comments (0 topical, 117 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
Is that even on further reflection what he said in the first clip was what he actually believes. He botched the joke, so he's a bad comedian, maybe a little tired, and nobody "got it" because it went down like a lead balloon. But his intrinsic rationale, the thing that led him to make the joke in the first place, is something that he is not apologizing for. As I've said, I take him at his word. Both statements are a reflection of what he really believes, just seen through a slightly different lens.
The magic of 24 hours and some creativity. Who says the Dems have no ideas --- they are full of it full of ideas.
This will be the lead story in MSM this evening. "See just a simple slip of the tongue; John is a Senator not a comedian."
[It isn't just the troops the left thinks are stupid]
John
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Democratic civilization is the first in history to blame itself because another power is trying to destroy it.
... Jean-François Revel
Even assuming the masses are sheep, even those incredibly stupid woolen critters can be extremely dangerous if they all get spooked and run in one direction, potentially being able to trample people to death. Maybe they should keep this in mind when scaring the sheeple; they may possibly be dumb and easily spooked, but the combination means they could just as easily stampede in the direction of the noise as the other way.
"I could explain, but that would be very long, very convoluted, and make you look very stupid. Nobody wants that... except maybe me."
but the other received wisdom of the left is that the sheeple are crying out for someone to guide them to righteousness and that someone is, naturally, a Democrat.
No danger of stampede here; pay no attention to the man behind the curtain; go about your business, these are not the droids you are looking for.
:-)
John
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Democratic civilization is the first in history to blame itself because another power is trying to destroy it.
... Jean-François Revel
You know for a guy who is smarter than George Bush (which is what he claims he meant), Kerry's misquote and then his handling of this whole affair demonstrates just how smart he really is. I have brighter bulbs in my basement.
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The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
Note that there have been zero references in the old media about Busk vs Kerry GPAs, and grad school performance or that Bush was a fighter pilot while Kerry was a grunt. Kerry is the Undereducated one...
Maj, USA (Ret)Grunt AND Fighter Pilot
She said " I hope it doesn't last longer"
To be fair its not just the media is liberal at work. Pointing out bush is smarter than Kerry would destroy their Bush is a moron who sold his soul to Karl Rove meme.
that the FOX info babes look better than her, and use more lip gloss.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
He has trashed the troops multiple times throughout his career.
Whey should he change?
...And probably about to be banned for saying this, but hey.
I don't think there's a massive difference between the two versions of the joke. Change the punchline in the latter to the punchline for the former, and it's essentially the same joke:
"You know, education -- if you make the most of it, you study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."
All he did was screw up the punchline by missing out "getting us".
I think there's a weird over-reaction to this (fourteen stories about this on the front page?) - Sure, he said something dumb, but, I mean, come on. Not that I expect you to write about Mike Stark getting his ass whupped or John Sweeney or whatever, but there's a point where you seem as if you're jumping all over this because you're desperate for something to crow about.
Member for
19 min 25 sec
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Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes
I'm... bemused, I guess, about the response to this, is all, and wanted to say that I didn't see the incredible disconnect between the two versions of the joke. That's all.
then you will know that regardless of alleged lurking record, credit is rarely given to members who have just signed up or issued their first post.
That you could not help yourself but mention Mike Stark and break the profanity rule at the same time just increases the likelyhood you are just the latest of the troll minions stumping for Kerry.
Kerry of all people. LOL.
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Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes
Was it the three letter word that rhymes with "mass"? If so, my apologies.
And the Mike Stark thing wasn't baiting - Like I said, I don't expect it to be discussed here, because on many levels, it's really not what the site is all about. But it's kind of depressing to see fourteen posts on the same subject on the front page, one after another, especially when it seems like a kind of straw man argument in the first place.
on how you would consider the insult (regardless of intent) of our military by a leader of the Democrat party and possible Presidential candidate could be considered a strawman.
Bear in mind the timing less than a week before midterm elections where control of Congress is at stake and a RS audience that belives this behavior, a disdain for all things military, is endemic of the entire party.
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Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes
...is what I consider the strawman argument. "Kerry said this, therefore it follows that all Democrats think this". Even "Democrats who don't denounce him implicitly agree with him" is too much of a strawman for me. It assumes that there is a group-think mindset, which I refuse to do.
To follow that logic through to its logical conclusion, you'd have to say that all Republicans who didn't denounce whoever you want in whatever controversial situation (I'm avoiding mentioning specific names and situations for fear of being told that I was trolling, but use your imagination for the controversy of your choice) supported them, and that's not the case - Sometimes people don't comment publicly on controversial issues because it's safer to say nothing and hope it all goes away, you know?
It's a bad joke that he messed up. He apologized, whether or not anyone thinks he was lying. That's it.
If its converse wasn't what the dems used to purge Lieberman. They also regularly take that position on republicans.
So you might want to amend your statement to include the default and unspoken except when applied to conservatives and republicans.
You know for libs it goes something like this.
We are tolerant of diverse ideas (except for conservatives and republicans)
We will not allow hate speech to be directed at anyone (except for conservatives and republicans)
We believe in a market place of ideas (except for conservatives and republicans)
As to the last part. Call me humorless but I don't get it. In that the purported original is even less well timed and more convoluted than the actual its even less funny.
Shouldn't that be (except for conservatives and republicans and Christians)?
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Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
and their rabid supporters are enough of a group mindset for me to request this story stay front page material until AFTER the election.
I agree it seems petty to continue to harp, unless you think of the mountain you speak of down-thread blocking these people from gaining the gavel.
Instead of these so-called leaders staying incognito and keeping a buffer of disassociation from their associates in close races, I would rather they be in the headlines. America should be full aware of what they might get nationally by pulling the D lever locally.
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Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes
An apology expresses regret for something you did, like, "I'm sorry I insulted the troops," or "I'm sorry I wrecked your car." You can't apologize for something you accuse someone else of doing, like "I'm sorry you misinterpreted my statement," or "I'm sorry you're too stupid to understand what I meant." What Kerry said is a false apology, which expresses no regret and admits no wrongdoing.
Retire Lindsey Graham. Support Thomas Ravenel for Senate 2008
It would be an overreaction if he had just apologized, but its not an overreaction when the jerk then lied about it.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
Does that make it an overreaction to continue to go on about it?
A genuine question, not rhetorical posturing.
Here:
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/01/kerry-msnbc-apologize/
"Of course [what I intended to say] isn’t what I said. I left out one word, I left out the word us. They got us stuck. Instead of that, I said they got stuck... I said it was a botched joke, of course I’m sorry about a botched joke. You think I love botched jokes? It’s pretty stupid."
Watch the video instead of reading the post, I know the source isn't going to be popular, but the video ain't fake.
...that being the one where John Kerry claimed that he was telling the truth all along wrt the Winter Soldier testimony. That particular lie still rankles quite a bit.
So, yes, tough crowd.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.
1) He could have said this 24-hours ago and this would probably all be over by now
2) His peeps are apparantly putting-out a more elaborate version of the joke at the same time Jean Francois was comming-out with this
3) It's not like JF Kerry doesn't have a history of peeing on our service members if he thinks he can get away with it.
So yes, that he's lying is a perfectly reasonable conclusion.
And if he's not, that's still one of the weakest mea culpas in history.
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"I don't know." -- Helen Thomas, when asked by White House spokesman Scott McClellan, "Are we at war, Helen?"
he's just lying. Period. He didn't mangle a joke because there is no contextual or semantic relationship between what he said, his audience, and what his staff butt boy said the joke was.
He's simply lying.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15512797/
Interestingly, Imus himself wanted Kerry to go a bit further on that apology*. In between begging the man to go home and keep his mouth shut...
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.
*So would I, but I think that Imus' opinion is more relevant for this discussion.
...is the way Imus lead into the apology, essentially saying "I know you didn't mean to say that, please just say you didn't, come on."
he was coaching Kerry on what to say that would be less damaging to D's instead of what he truly meant.
Strange behavior coming from GOP spokesman Imus indeed!
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Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes
"Almost as if he was coaching Kerry on what to say that would be less damaging"
Yeah, that was kind of my point. ;)
... so it is?
All Hail Imus! Let us pray...
B. S.
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"I don't know." -- Helen Thomas, when asked by White House spokesman Scott McClellan, "Are we at war, Helen?"
Kerry: "When I came back from Southeast Asia, I told the truth."
A perfect invitation for Kerry to be re-Swiftboated.
Then, he compared our troops to the hordes of "Jenjis" Khan, accusing them before the Senate of being cold-blooded torturers, without any evidence. Now he says they're all the rejects who can't make it through college. Oh, and he does all that wonderful stuff for veterans and whatnot.
John Kerry wouldn't know the truth if it blew up in his hand grenade. By the way, what was that seared in his memory about Cambodia?
The bad news: Conservatism is hard to sell. The good news is that it works.
BS.
There is no apology here, which is why, according to Google News, 20 minutes ago the American Legion was still asking for one.
This is an excuse and a lie.
Saying what he said, and reacting as he reacted warrants far more of an outcry. After all he was the Democratic party's nomination for President and Commander in Chief. His mistake was more than someone messing up a prepared speech. "Getting us" is key to the joke, and completely reduces the comment to inanity. Whoever wrote the joke, assumes that everyone listening thinks GW is an idiot. Unfortunately, the facts prove differently, and therefore the joke is an inside joke which does not belong in a public speech. JFKerry said what he said, and knew he said what he said, and still didn't apologize to the troops. Messed up joke or not, he compounded the problem by refusing to apologize.
Chuck
"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government." --James Madison
"Living Documents" suffer this distortion
I think that the joke doesn't assume that everyone thinks that the President is an idiot as much as it wants people to know that Kerry was calling him an idiot. And I'm not sure that that amounts to much more than electioneering hyperbole that we see from both sides, but YMMV.
This is the lie Kerry is telling to try to cover his butt, but it was not a "joke". He said exactly what he said, and meant exactly what he said. Nobody who is familar with Kerrys long record of contempt for the US military would ever mistake this for a joke.
Although he should really be slammed for his follow up remarks about how Bush "misled" the the country into a war. How he gets a pass on that is beyond me.
Q: Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy?
A: You botch a joke so badly the American population thinks you're a traitor.
"Every time some nitwit college student burns a flag on camera, that's one less idiot who can ever run for public office." - Crank
"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill
We can't attain overeach on this until November 8th. Even their lame attempt at providing the "joke" doesn't work. Let me help here a little.
Kerry was supposed to say, "I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? (You end up getting better grades than me at Yale, becoming a jet fighter pilot, running a major league ball club, getting elected Governor of Texas twice, elected President of the United States twice by beating Gore the Green Guru first and my intellectually sorry butt second, and then) you end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
We can't attain overeach on this until November 8th.
This is what it's all about, isn't it? It's not about being offended. It's not about the outrage of a politician making a gaffe. It's about using this for political gain for the upcoming election.
"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw
Not much different. Really the only difference was that the macaca OUTRAGE! was directed towards one candidate whereas there is an attempt to direct the OUTRAGE! over this matter towards the entire Democratic Party.
"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw
... and about 3-dozen front-section stories in the WaPo, of course.
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"I don't know." -- Helen Thomas, when asked by White House spokesman Scott McClellan, "Are we at war, Helen?"
I guess the fact that George Allen is running for office in Virginia and John Kerry isn't running for anything MIGHT have something to do with that.
"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw
I was talking about the 3-weeks of coverage - including almost a week of national ink - given to the faux outrage over the non-issue.
But I'm sorry if you misunderstood the mischaracterization of my statement.
(couldn't resist)
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"I don't know." -- Helen Thomas, when asked by White House spokesman Scott McClellan, "Are we at war, Helen?"
that the macaca incident got more coverage than this? It was covered by every single TV news outlet in the country. Local channels had it.
The macaca "scandal" was only noticed by the political junkies outside of Virginia.
But at least people didn't try to expand the macaca comment towards the entire GOP. Well except for the people in the fever swamps perhaps.
"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw
It had nation wide coverage for weeks and is still being mentioned whenever the Allen race is brought up.
How long do you expect the Kerry thing to get coverage? The MSM is already burying it.
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Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
The macaca story appeared at least once on the front page of the Boston Globe. Don't have it in front of me though, so I can't give you a date.
To the larger point - come on, you know the conventional wisdom is already out there that Republican == Racist. This was just used as "a leading Republican" - heck, "a PRESIDENTIAL condender" - proving the CW. QED.
Though it seems pretty obvious that "people" did indeed attempt to hang Mark Foley around the entire GOP, right?
And could not the case be made that the recent rhetoric of certain leading Democrats (COUGH-durbin-COUGH, COUGH-murtha-COUGH, COUGHlistgoesonandonCOUGH) could perhaps be added to Kerry's already public comments (COUGHterrorizingCOUGHwomenCOUGHand-childrenCOUGH) to show, dare I say, a "pattern of behavior" of elected Democrats toward our soldiers?
Oh, never mind. I know you don't agree.
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"I don't know." -- Helen Thomas, when asked by White House spokesman Scott McClellan, "Are we at war, Helen?"
I hate it when lefties start saying things like Republicans = racist just as much as a I hate it when righties say Democrats = Military haters.
If you guys want to say that Kerry doesn't like the military, that's fine. Based on his comments you can come to that conclusion.
But when you expand it out to party of millions of people or even hundreds of people if we are limiting it to just the elected pols, it's meaningless.
It's label politics and it does us all a disservice.
"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw
"elected" Democrats, right? That narrows-down the "millions of people" rather substantially, no?
And yes, we can agree that all sides have their kooks to contend with and it's indeed "not fair" that either side gets branded with their kooks. But, as you know, politics ain't been-bag. And while label politics does indeed do us all a disservice, until it stops working we can all look forward to being graced with it for many campaigns to come.
Out.
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"I don't know." -- Helen Thomas, when asked by White House spokesman Scott McClellan, "Are we at war, Helen?"
I have no doubt of this. It is a consistent and pervasive attitude. It is the reason Kerry's comments are important. He revealed how he actually feels not how he wants you to believe he feels.
You are entitled to your opinion. But it doesn't jibe with the facts. Perhaps the Democrats aren't AS supportive of the military as the Republicans. I don't really agree with that but I can see the argument.
But to suggest that anyone, in this day and age, who is elected into our government, could truly hate the military, ignores the reality of politics today in America. Perhaps 30 or 40 years ago this may have been true, I don't know. But today politicians are falling over themselves trying to show how patriotic they are.
"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw
Let's do this. I'm willing to give YOU the benefit of the doubt and say that the Democrats (any use by me refers to elected Democrats at the national level) don't hate the military.
How about this instead. Dem's object to the use of military force anywhere in the world unless it is a UN approved mission that is supported by 100% of the UNSC.
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If "pro" is the opposite of "con", what is the opposite of "progress"?
Well let's take that as a truism. Does that mean they hate the military or that they object to unilateral use of our military?
"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw
is for the defense of the United States and service of its foreign policy. We don't maintain it in the service of the "international community." Unilateral? Yep. Wrong? Nope.
John
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Democratic civilization is the first in history to blame itself because another power is trying to destroy it.
... Jean-François Revel
And in general yes to both. There is one thing that they hate more than either though and thats the Military succeeding.
Its 1969 you are 17 and planning to attend college so you don't have to go to Nam. You go to college where you are bombarded with a litany of garbage about what a rotten country this is. How does your attitude change as time goes by ?
Now take the same person and allow that they were an antiwar protester. Maybe they just went to pick up chicks maybe they were vehemently against the war. Same scenario but you join radical student organizations because you have become comfortable with them.
These people are the people that compose the democratic party and the left today. They grew up primed to hate America in general and the military in particular.
As to your assertion that no one who hates the military could get elected. Not long ago I saw a member of the SanFran board of commissioners state that the U.S. didn't need a Military and then defend and reiterate the statement.
If you want to argue that SanFran is an isolated and strange portion of the country. Bill Clinton is the man in the second scenario and he blows your assertion apart. He truly showed how he felt about the military. Do you think he had an "awe shucks these guys are great" moment ?
that the leadership of the White Flag Party despises the military as representative of true patriotism. Even more so now because the individual members volunteered.
It is this leadership scum that is floating atop the Democrats that will gain power. Every political advantage should be fully exploited to prevent this from happening.
Besides, what Kerry said is what Kerry believes.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
I worry about. Its the elected leaders of their party (Pelosi, Murtha, Kerry, Kennedy) that scare me.
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Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes
truth to power. And the Democrats supporting his statement are simply proof that they have no use for the military (the US military anyway), and should not be trusted with anything to do with national security.
Kerry's statement is just one strand the Democrat's web made up of statements by Murtha, Durbin, etc. Not to mention Nancy's desire to put Alcee Hastings in as Chmn of the House Intel Committee.
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If "pro" is the opposite of "con", what is the opposite of "progress"?
When did Pepperdine University become a source of power?
I think it was Pepperdine.
"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw
Kerry is a perennial POTUS candidate. Everything he does and everything he says is calculated for a national audience. If his audience was simply Pepperdine students, why was the media there?
And FWIW, I apply that rule to all potential candidates of both parties. Which is why I wouldn't support Allen in '08. You just can't overcome rank stupidity (applicable for both Kerry and Allen).
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If "pro" is the opposite of "con", what is the opposite of "progress"?
that is was a stupid joke no matter what he said. And honestly the guy should know by now that he can't tell jokes. There are people that have natural humor. Their delivery is good and even a bad joke comes off funny. John Kerry could tell the wittiest joke anyone has ever heard and people would still be straining a laugh over it.
You are completely right that people that can't seem to cure their foot-in-mouth disease really shouldn't be running for President. If Kerry is the Presidential candidate for the Democrats in 2008 I'm starting my own party.
"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw
FWIW I appreciate you being here. I don't agree with most of opinions (I know you're shocked at that), but you are respectful of the venue and your opinions are at least based on rational thought.
Thanks for hanging out with us "RedNecks" :>).
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If "pro" is the opposite of "con", what is the opposite of "progress"?
I really don't know why this gideon guy has started some quest to chase me off the reservation but he certainly is diligent about it. Just about anytime I post in a thread he'll pop in solely to tell me how unwelcome I am here.
I guess he prefers the Mobys and Trolls.
"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw
Flyerhawk is welcome to go blather on some other blog which thinks he actually has a point...
"During my lifetime, all our problems have come from mainland Europe, and all the solutions from the English-speaking nations across the world." - Thatcher
Slim chance, I know, but I think it's worth taking...
"During my lifetime, all our problems have come from mainland Europe, and all the solutions from the English-speaking nations across the world." - Thatcher
Look if you want to ask me out on a date just go ahead and do it. I don't think you're my type but it's better than these grade school games.
"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw
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Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes
Sure is kind of you to notice.
"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not." George Bernard Shaw
Okay, so now we know what the joke allegedly was supposed to be. It really doesn't make sense concerning the context. The joke he told made sense, since he was addressing college students, and he being from the days when college students were avoiding service in the military, he was joking around pitying those poor schmucks in the military. I think this is damage control. Otherwise, why wasn't this brought out when Kerry did his little "I ain't apologizing to no one no how" press conference. Kerry is a dufus, and thank all of the gods that he did not get elected.
If you ain't as smart as the guy you want to roast, don't bring up his smarts.
Chuck
"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government." --James Madison
"Living Documents" suffer this distortion
He should've tried telling it while wearing a UBL costume and waving a gun around near a freeway like his fellow Democrat.
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"I am a great believer in luck. The harder I work, the more I have of it." -- Thomas Jefferson
to see if the Kerry comment has had any impact where it matters.
until Nov 8th
Just as every cop is a criminal, and all the sinners saints - Sympathy for the Democrats
(1) If you do not work hard and study, you may have less career opportunities, and may as a result end up having to join the military and serve in Iraq.
(2) If you do not work hard and study, you may become President of the United States, and may end up getting the U.S. stuck in a war in Iraq.
Both are possible. But one of these interpretations is a heck of a lot more reasonable that the other one.
Oh, hell, I'm just a joke.
"As a combat veteran, I want to make it clear to anyone in uniform and to their loved ones: my poorly stated joke at a rally was not about, and never intended to refer to any troop.
I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member, or American who was offended.
It is clear the Republican Party would rather talk about anything but their failed security policy. I don’t want my verbal slip to be a diversion from the real issues. I will continue to fight for a change of course to provide real security for our country, and a winning strategy for our troops."
http://www.johnkerry.com/news/releases/release.html?id=37
Any thoughts?
Yesterday it needed no apology, today he has seen the light? Has he arrived in Damascus yet?
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
I thought you said Damocles --- misinterpreted I guess :-)
John
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Democratic civilization is the first in history to blame itself because another power is trying to destroy it.
... Jean-François Revel
Instead of phoning this one in, he should have farmed it out to a Certified Professional Democrat Apologist.
Didn't we do through one of these "too bad you folks are too stupid to understand that what you heard me say is not what I actually said" apologies not too long ago?
Misinterpreted? 'I apologize to no man for my words which were misinterpreted by the great American unwashed, who like the troops, are too dumb to correctly understand my meaning.' You mean that kind of misinterpretation Jacques?
John
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Democratic civilization is the first in history to blame itself because another power is trying to destroy it.
... Jean-François Revel
"During my lifetime, all our problems have come from mainland Europe, and all the solutions from the English-speaking nations across the world." - Thatcher
Didn't we do through one of these "too bad you folks are too stupid to understand that what you heard me say is not what I actually said" apologies not too long ago?
Misinterpreted? 'I apologize to no man for my words which were misinterpreted by the great American unwashed, who like the troops, are too dumb to correctly understand my meaning.' You mean that kind of misinterpretation Jacques?
John
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Democratic civilization is the first in history to blame itself because another power is trying to destroy it.
... Jean-François Revel
So everything a politician says should be taken at face value regardless of the context? The statement was a continuation of the series of attacks on Bush that preceded the 13 seconds that have been played over and over again.
If we wanted to get "down and dirty", we could accuse Bush of wanting a draft (h ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rWYeyxEkwo), of the Iraq war being over (h ttp://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1030-06.htm) of Rumsfeld inditing that Flight 93 was shot down (h ttp://www.freewilliamsburg.com/archives/2004/12/rumsfeld_misspe.html), or George being sexually unsatisfying according to Laura (h ttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4503609.stm).
The statement was taken out of context and used to the Republicans agenda just like the Democrats do when this administration refers to "tar babies" (h ttp://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2630040)
It was a joke where the punchline got botched. Kerry apologized for the botching. Why is this still a story to you?
Ben
"It was a joke where the punchline got botched. Kerry apologized for the botching. Why is this still a story to you?"
Because it's a joke that plays to traditional Republican fears that Democrats don't care about the military/are disdainful towards the military that comes at exactly the right time for the Republicans to use it to energize their base. It's a soundbite that plays well to rally Republican and conservative voters, at a time when the races are getting close enough to need something like this.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that it's a mountain being made out of a molehill, but you can see why it's easily made into a mountain, and what use the mountain serves.
We aren't "afraid" that the Democrats are disdainful towards the military... we simply know it.
It's not like this is the first time any Democrat has suggested less affluent or less educated end up in the military. Remember the Schumer draft proposal? The talk of the "back door draft?" All the talk about how the "rich Rethuglicans" won't send their kids to fight in the war? Liberal cartoonists drawing cartoons about how much of a sucker Pat Tillman was? I guess he didn't fit in the "poor and uneducated" bucket, so they had to invent another rationale for him wanting to serve -- that he was a sucker and a fool. This comment was just par for the coarse. There was nothing surprising about it.
---
"I am a great believer in luck. The harder I work, the more I have of it." -- Thomas Jefferson
The idea that Democrats are weaker than Republicans on defense is one that is used in electioneering often, playing on the fear (from undecideds and conservatives) that a vote for a Democrat is going to lead to a less-safe way of life.
NOT weaker on defense. No fair using JFK (the Predident one, not the failed comedian) or Zel Miller. Explain exactly what the current Democrats will do to our military and our intelligence services that will make us safer.
Lets see...
Repeal the patriot act.
Prohibit tapping internation calls of suspected terrorists.
Stop us from monitoring international banking transactions.
Put back the wall between the FBI and the CIA.
Defund the military efforts on the WOT.
Institute a draft.
Cut funding for new weapons systems.
(Did I miss any?)
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Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
But I also forgot, release the terrorist that are in GITMO.
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Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Liberals always like to cry "no fair!" until you show them the facts. Then they disappear...
"During my lifetime, all our problems have come from mainland Europe, and all the solutions from the English-speaking nations across the world." - Thatcher
They would repeal the "Patriot" Act, restoring our civil liberties.
They would pull the military out of Iraq, recognizing that we are only inflaming the Arab Street with our adventures in Empire Building.
They would reduce the size of the military to only those units that are required to keep Europe safe from invasion by the Russians and various Congressional Districts safe from economic hardship.
They would use the savings from military reductions to provide national health care for all.
They would raise taxes on the rich, because it's the fair thing to do and so they can properly fund free college for all.
By doing these things, and a few more that I don't have time to list, we can begin to build American into a place that people respect and want to emulate. Hence, no one will have any reason to attack us.
Wasn't that simple?
_______________________________
If "pro" is the opposite of "con", what is the opposite of "progress"?
I must be uneducated
"During my lifetime, all our problems have come from mainland Europe, and all the solutions from the English-speaking nations across the world." - Thatcher
speech from Nov. 16, 1934, ad infinitum, until they finally understand that we will always have enemies who need to be deterred or destroyed:
[Our enemies] might say, it seems to me, "you are rich; we are poor. You seem well fed; we are hungry. You have been victorious; we have been defeated. You have valuable colonies; we have none. You have your navy; where is ours? You have had the past; let us have the future." Above all, I fear they would say, "you are weak and we are strong."
"During my lifetime, all our problems have come from mainland Europe, and all the solutions from the English-speaking nations across the world." - Thatcher
What I heard him say was "Let me make it crystal clear--as crystal clear as I know how. I apologize to no one." Followed by a lengthy rant about how it was all the Republican's fault.
Doesn't sound like an apology to me.
He may have botched the punch line, but he certainly didn't correct it either.
"The statement was taken out of context..."
I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.
It wasn't taken out of context, the full text of the "joke" was given. If he intended to say something something else but instead bashed the troops, he should have corrected it and apologized. He was not misquoted, taken out of context or anything else. If there was an error, it was strictly his.
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Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
What I heard him say was "Let me make it crystal clear--as crystal clear as I know how. I apologize to no one." Followed by a lengthy rant about how it was all the Republican's fault.
Now he is sorry that anyone was stupid enough to misunderstand what he was trying to say and be offended by it.
---
"I am a great believer in luck. The harder I work, the more I have of it." -- Thomas Jefferson
he voted against the apology before he was for it?
Yeah, 'bout course for the guy.
*He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - Thomas Paine
I just wonder when he'll actually apologize for what he said instead of apologizing that we misunderstood him.
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Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Love the passive voice: "who was offended" - not "who I offended."
And of course the passive: "were misinterpreted" - not "words I mispoke."
It's pretty impressive to issue an apology without actually taking responsibility for any acts.
Unfortunately, I worry this passive/active apology distinction is lost on all except those of us who ever waited for a true apology, only to get one of these lame ass dodges instead.
...Kerry issues written apology, which is very clear:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/01/kerry.remarks/index.htmlvvvvvvvvv...
"As a combat veteran, I want to make it clear to anyone in uniform and to their loved ones: My poorly stated joke at a rally was not about, and [was] never intended to refer to any troop."
Applies in German, too.
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Even those who learn from history are surrounded by those doomed to repeat it.
You also truncated the quote
"As a combat veteran, I want to make it clear to anyone in uniform and to their loved ones: my poorly stated joke at a rally was not about, and never intended to refer to any troop.
I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member, or American who was offended.
It is clear the Republican Party would rather talk about anything but their failed security policy. I don’t want my verbal slip to be a diversion from the real issues. I will continue to fight for a change of course to provide real security for our country, and a winning strategy for our troops."
So the words were misinterpreted...not misspoken....this is really not about what he said...it is about the Republicans and their failed security policy....because his plan was so much better....it was a verbal slip...he meant to insult the intelligence of the sitting President...you know, the one that had better grades than the fine Senator, and who beat him in the '04 election, when anyone with a D in front of their name and a pulse should have easily defeated a politically wounded incumbent.
because I am tired of a billion front page stories on the same thing, but I will say I am having issues with the "joke" as being appropriate in the first place, if that was indeed a joke.
It is almost as bad as some of the jokes my 7 year old tries to tell-it isn't really funny, and doesn't really make lots of sense, and frankly not even really appropriate for the situation.
I also have to say the other reason I don't totally buy the "joke" or the apology is that Kerry has made a career out of undervalueing and disparaging our troops. A part of me actually thinks he believes exactly what he said, he just didn't mean for it to be so out there.
As for how it affects the election-I am not so sure it will affect much-other than to make democratic candidates run away from his endorsements. For some people who have doubts about the democrats ability to support the military and establish good foreign policy, but are disatisfied with the left, it may swing them back into voting GOP, but I am not super confident this has much affect on the election, as the story now stands.
Hi freaking larious!!!! Our troops rock...!
dixie68
Kerry says that he has been misunderstood. How can that be? If you looked at the press conference, he was clearly reading every word, and I am sure that a man of his "great intellect" could read a word as small as "us" if it had been in his script. He only said what he has been saying since his return from his great Vietnam experience.
While John Kerry represents pretty much everything I cannot stand in a politician, I find it very hard to believe that he was saying, either actually or subconsciouly, that our troops are dumb.
His error in delivery is actually quite common - e.g, where one says "you" without contextualizing it (I know have done it a number of times myself). When Kerry said "If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq", he meant "you" as in President Bush. Unfortunately his introduction did not sufficiently describe the President, so people did not make the connection.
I am disappointed that this has become as issue. Just like people are jumping on Boehner for allegedly saying that our Generals are crappy. These men are not infallible -- they will misspeak from time to time. I do not believe they mean to malign the troops in the process.
...he just thinks that only dummies are dumb enough to join the military in a time of war.
You see, "smart" people would never join the military when there is a possibility of getting shot. The military is only a "smart" option when a person can just do nothing, collect a check from the government, and get some free college like all good socialists.
He doesn't expect us to understand. It's nuanced.
Hardly matters. The truth is that on some level both of his statements reflect what he really means to say. People really do need to understand that.
Kerry is a good speaker most of the time, when he's prepped and eager. When he's tired, he says what he really thinks, like a lot of people do. And what he really thinks is very close to what the New York Times thinks and what the people who have opposed the war in academic circles from the beginning have thought, all stage management by Steven Spielberg aside. If we're going to win this war, we have to win it, or else people like John Kerry are going to wind up being proven right by history. They may know right now that we're going to win the war but my view is that they do not want a Republican administration to have the historical credit. In the history books, when Ted Kennedy sits back in his chair at night and sips his brandy, the overwhelming imperative is that if we are going to have a successful outcome in Iraq, it must be with a Democrat at the helm for historical purposes. You have no idea how badly this burns inside them.