JFK Alternate History Memorial Weekend Open Thread.
Harry Turtledove, so you know it's good.
By Moe Lane Posted in Miscellanea — Comments (20) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Call me nuts, but I suspect that a alternate history project entitled WINTER OF OUR DISCONTENT: The Impeachment & Trial of John F. Kennedy might be of interest to some of our readers. This project by Harry Turtledove & Bryce Zabel is interesting both in its subject matter (divergence point: Kennedy doesn't die in Dallas) and in the way that they're pitching it (put the first bits online and see who nibbles). The first three chapters are up, and so far? Pretty good. 'Course, I'm a stone cold Turtledove fan, so I'm prejudiced. Check it out.
Open thread.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Yeah, he switched parties for national unity and all that, but he was elected on the Lincoln ticket.
Run like Reagan!
Democrats attacking democrats over morality, crimes in office and national security.
The republicans back then were even more principled than now. Principled to the point of near insanity but principled nonetheless.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
The South was the backbone of the Democratic party back then. You can't see a womanizing northeastern liberal like President Kennedy splitting the party? Especially if you throw in aggressive civil rights action from AG RFK?
Run like Reagan!
If ever there was an opportunity there it was.
Berlin Wall another really ripe spot.
Then there was the Cuban Missile crisis.
After the Missile Crisis there had to be a whole lot of people in washington that didn't want to wake up as ash.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
thanks Moe!
woodward and bernstein meet duncan and lefkowicz?
I must say the driver's admission he'd not tell the reporters the bubble wasn't bulletproof if he thought they could get it out quick enough to make a difference speaks to the state of journalism today, doesn't it?
Just ordered Return Engagement and Drive to the East, having finished today my (first) watch of the Yamamoto Youko television series.
Run like Reagan!
I've read everything in the timeline, starting with How Few Remain to the first book of the current triology.
I don't know...I kinda got fizzled out I guess towards the end and just haven't gathered the energy to catch up and what-not.
and enjoyed them all, especialy "Guns for the South" in which a time traveler supplies R.E.Lee with AK47s.
However, I would have wished that Turtledove had stuck closer to the pre-November 1963 history. I believe an impeachment of JFK for his part in the overthrow of the South Vietnamese government and/or his loss of the Democratic nomination for 1964 were possibilities if he had lived.
Prior to MacGovern's rewriting the rules, the national Democratic party was quite different from the prty today.
since it was so far fetched, but from "How Few Remain" onward became something close to a Turtledove fanatic. He tells an amazingly credible story of what might have happened had someone not come by three cigars wrapped in a sheet of paper.
In Vino Veritas
I missed How Few Remain and started up at American Front. I'll have to go back at some point, heh.
Run like Reagan!
Lyndon Johnson made the point in his memoirs that the New York Times first raised the flag for overthrow of the Diem government, way back in the Eisenhower Administration. And the Times had tremendous influence at that time over all the news coverage in any medium in the US, far more than it does now.
If you had been a typical "well-informed" sophisticate in the early Sixties, you would have thought Diem was the worst thing happening in Vietnam and he needed to be gotten rid of. (Of course, after he finally was gotten rid of, the die was cast for South Vietnam because they never again had capable leadership.)
Ergo, I don't think JFK would have been impeached over this.
but I had some awareness of it. My family was pretty politically aware, though not very politically involved. This was the rural South and my Grandad was a Tom Watson kind of guy and my Dad wasn't far from him. JFK was practically a cussword. That said, I can remember a general characterization of Diem as a bad guy and his assassination being thought a good thing. In the days of one or two channels, one or two radio stations, and one or two newspapers, Conventional Wisdom meant a lot more than it does today.
I agree with you but would go further; NOTHING would have resulted in the impeachment of JFK. The Camelot myth was powerful even for people who hated him.
In Vino Veritas
It's hard to overestimate the glamor of the first Presidential couple that the television camera adored. JFK was really the first President whose appeal rested primarily on his personality rather than his character.
In that shadow, Maggie Higgins book "Our Vietnam Nightmare," the report of the UN Commissioners on the Diem government and the results of the trial of the remaining Diem brother went largely ignored. The MSM had reasons to ignore this information as the Siagon media were shown to be complete dupes, at best, or willing participants in spreading Communist propraganda.
A large Democratic block (Roman Catholics) were outraged about the US Government (read Kennedy) had done to Diem and a possible Congressional investigation was being discussed. That investigation would have been bi-partisan and, most likely, Kennedy would have resigned.

That really is fantasy not science fiction.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777